Look up "Ken Miller Bacterial Flagellum" on YouTube for the simple refutation of this breathtaking example of wishful illogic. Parts of the flagellum DO have functions. Therefore, the complexity is NOT irreducible. Michael Behe is wrong again.
I think, it does not seem possible for something like this to have evolved over billions of years. This is far to complex and has too many moving parts that needed to be organized together, and working exactly at the same time for it to work. . You dont need to be very smart to realise that their is an intelligence designer behind this. Even something like HTLM code needs to be keyed correctly i.e. all characters need to be correct or it will not work at all!
@zeyrek2 Yes it is perfect...because natural selection has chosen IT from all the faulty ones that arose along the billions of years these bacteria have been multiplying. Those that aren't perfect do not survive. And for the record it's not perfect, because in about 1 year the same bacteria will probably have a slightly different...more effective, motor.
@hannrkelley First you say : " Yes it is perfect "...then you say : "And for the record it's not perfect, because in about 1 year the same bacteria will probably have a slightly different...more effective, motor."
The motor of a specific type of bacteria looks and is the same today as one from the 1970's , 1600's and even from one that existed millions of years ago. The motor of a bacteria does not change year by year like it does on an outboard motor of a boat.
it took billions of years for the cellular machinery to evolve, then a few 100m's to amplify complexity once they had key components in place. it's thought there was an earlier episode of RNA-only based simpler life. billions of years are a LOOOONG time, and bacteria can try many combinations in parallel... anyone know how many bacteria cells exist on earth? It's quite possible that half-formed peices existed as random mutations, causing no harm until another piece makes it useful
Suggesting what .... God made bacteria as first life on earth then sat back and let evolution do the rest. 99% of species that ever lived are extinct. God created bacteria.... Sigh give me a break
@TheXXxSarahJanexXx ah, your right! But, with the facts and the science that we have today, you have to really make a decision. Do some research, and descide what YOU want to believe! That all these parts to the first motor just came from nothing and if they did that they just fell in to place and started working? Or that there was an actual designer that (fine, dont call him God but lets just say it was designed ;) that came up with all the numbers and shapes and hand work to get it going!?!!!
@tomascratchbuild3D How does this prove an 'intelligent designer'. They use words such as 'rotor', 'drive shaft' and 'propeller'. But these are words all associated with things that we create. Just because we use are intelligence to create things, doesn't give anyone the right to assume that intelligence created life in the first place. God does not exist FACT!
@pompeycharlie Evolution does not consciously change behavior, shape and form in life. It is a simple reaction to change. Nature reacts to the changing and variation of habitat, climate and diet. These changes take place to best suit the environment in which the life form lives. Man created god, not the other way around. God does not exist FACT!
@pompeycharlie Haha , i never said that God exists (although thats what strongly believe in) , I said you have to chose what you want to believe with the given Facts. Oh, and wheres the proof to the FACT that you talk about? im NOT saying that I'm right, but i am asking to see your proof. i would like to know the truth if you have some!
@pompeycharlie DONT FORGET... these youtube conversations are just supposed to be knowlege sharing. virtually smack me if I sound rude, I really dont intend to be! I call it "interactive research"! hope alls well man, take care and God bless!
@tomascratchbuild3D I just don't see the need to share the so called 'knowledge' that this video thinks it is demonstrating. A complete load of crap which states, 'therefore life has an intelligent designer'. That's not an answer. You could put any answer to this crap, 'therefore a gangrene infested foot created the universe' or 'therefore life was created in the deepest, darkest depths of an anal passage'. God does not exist FACT.
@tomascratchbuild3D The very FACT that there is no proof/evidence of god whatsoever, makes it a FACT that he does not exist. Otherwise anyone could make up any story and say it's true. The story of Father Christmas is not true, but the only people who believe it is, are under 10 years old. Very much like the mind set of these jesus people. God does not exist FACT.
@pompeycharlie whilst I agree with the premise of your arguement and I am not fully advocating the existance of god you can still cant prove it as a fact that he doesnt exist. There may be things out in space that we havent discovered yet but because we havent seen them doesnt mean that they dont exist. The absence of evidence for god leads you to believe he doesnt exist but its still not a fact.
@feverpitch82 It is an absolute definite FACT that god does not exist. I 100% guarantee you that when you die, you will not be greeted by angels, jesus, god or whoever. There is no heaven or hell or afterlife of any such thing. Science always has, and always will disprove the bible. Bible basher's thought the earth only to be a few thousand years old, and when dinosaur bones were discovered that were millions of years old, the jesus people shit themselves.
HAHA! Laughable! They say the complexity of the bacteria is so unexplainable, that they must of been "created". HAHA! That is just an easy way out and a quick answer to something that cannot be explained by ignorant creationists (all of them ignorant). Life didn't need intelligence behind it to begin. Just because we use our intelligence to create things, doesn't give anyone the right to assume that therefore an intelligence must of created life. Get over it and move on, God does not exist FACT
@pompeycharlie Awesome! wheres your proof? ;) you must be able to proove it if your going to make such a bold statement ;) with the facts and the science that we have today, along with other events that have occured, you have to really make a decision. Do some research, and descide what YOU want to believe! That all these parts to the first motor just came from nothing and if they did that they just fell in to place and started working? (continued below)
Typical creationist pap. The best thing about this video is that is proves the willingness of religious scum to deliberately deceive others by omitting the information that proves the flagellum did evolve (ie similar biological machinery with different functions.)
@9493760 "God did it." You might be satisfied with that, but I'm not. So even if evolution can't explain something, that doesn't mean we're not supposed to keep asking questions, and finding new ways to explain how life changes.
@Nepycros Yes ,you begin with what should have been the end . Then you say o. k. lets not stop asking questions And on that i agree whole, we are seeking for answers to some very surprising .discoveries , it all leads to wanting to know , no matter how much it takes.
Yes, bacteria are complex. So what? We only say they're "simple" in comparrison to us. Notions of "complex" and "simple" are relative terms. Even if we assume that bacteria was "created", then that does not tell us anything about their creator. It could have been aliens for all we know. "Evidence" for creation (if you can call it that) is still not evidence for a divine God. But I still think it's more likely the bacteria in question simply evolved from even simpler forms...
Well it was a hollow pilus that evolved for motility. Bacteria is one of the best examples of evolution because of its reproductive rate, thousands of generations can be studied in a short time. As far as god making it, you are attributing one of the most destructive life forms that bring painful death to millions of innocent children a year - to your god. Vibrio cholerae and other bacteria (with flagellum) are human destroying machines. At least it is believable; that is how your god works.
@ghastin1 - Bacteria isn't always a negative thing though is it?! Religion may have many unanswered questions. But then so does evolution, which simply relies upon the theory of a series of coincidences, based on the coincidence of the big bang that is also just a theory.
@TalmudTommy By its nature "Christians, slaves, and soldiers, ask no questions" (Jerry Falwell), and never will. Evolution, science and the scientific method by nature always question and change when it finds an error. I.e. Darwin had unanswered questions 160 years ago that genomic sequencing and DNA answered. He also questioned transitional fossils of which science now has a more complete record. The word coincidence implies no apparent connection; causation might be a better word.
@ghastin1 - On the contrary, religious people, or even just agnostics ask many questions. But they also accept that some things cannot be explained because of our limited brain capacity.
But scientists tend to look for the slightest hint of proof that they could be right. Instead of subjecting a theory to actual scutiny so as to find whether it can withstand true testing. It is easy to prove one is right if one only looks for evidence to support their theory.
@ghastin1 - And what evolutionists fail to admit is that one cannot change their DNA. A species can be bred with certain strenghs such as intelligence and physical greatness. But they can never be bred in to an entirely different species. And with that the evolution theory falls to pieces.
@Nepycros - While DNA may develope different strenghs, weaknesses and such through the generations, the DNA in a generation remains the same. You can breed strenghs or weaknesses. But you cannot breed a different species.
Sex change is another flaw in the belief of evolution, you cannot change your chromosomes despite mass mutilation of the body and hormones. Evolution has never and will never be proven.
@TalmudTommy Will never be proven? I suppose you think annual flu shots are completely useless. The thousands of trained medical officials who make antibiotics to combat the flu virus, which changes constantly, are clearly mistaken. Since the flu virus doesn't evolve, after all.
@Nepycros - The flu vaccine is in no way helpful at all. Vaccines weaken the immune system causing simple illnesses to be a much greater problem as the immune system no longer has the strength to fight them. Pharmaceutical medication is bad for the body. And vaccines contain a lot of dangerous chemicals that cause brain damage and cancer. So your entire point is utter bollocks. Perhaps you should research what is actually in these vaccines and medications?!
@TalmudTommy Vaccines are based on using dead or weakened disease cells in order to test and STRENGTHEN the immune system. I don't know what faulty research you've done in the field, but trying to discredit medical science as a whole makes me think you have little sense of judgement in terms of deciding whether or not over the course of millions of years, mutations and genetic diversity can cause enough variety that one species can create a whole new one.
@Nepycros - Faulty research? Try actual research. Vaccines contain formaldehyde, mercury, aspartame (artificial sweetener that causes brain damage and turns in to formaldehyde in the blood stream) and aluminium. How exactly are they beneficial?! Formaldehyde causes cancer and therefore will weaken the immune system. Obviously you take the pharmaceutical lies for granted.
a spoon is made by millions of millions of atoms! how is possible that a man can put in order so many atoms and obtain the shape of a spoon? i belive that there is a god that created the first spoon, and duplicate it till all the mans can have one, so they can feed themselves with a holy soup. That's why i say let's destroy the vatican and make a giant "spoon shaped god" monument near rome, let's do it.
Evidence do not prove the existence of God actually. The evidence have always been here, and it is overwhelming. Ones core-vision which is a pre-analytic thing determines what or how one sees, more than his logic.
Actually evidenced based knowledge aquisition is probably the most unreliable method. It is subject to the inherent flaws in ourselves -- prone to cheat, lie and make mistakes. Where and when a worldview/ideology is threatened, objectivity is lost.
What's complex to one, is not necessarily complex to another. The basic workings of an electric motor are actually quite simple and understandable. Evolution is what's real.
The argument behind intelligent design is not dependent on complexity alone. The point is that multiple complexities exist at one time that are not only interrelated but are interdependent. The removal of one complex system is enough to ensure the demise of the entire system. The point is that a slow process of change over time is not sufficient to produce such an interdependent complex system. Neo-Darwinians “believe,” in a process that is lacking a solid explanation of the facts.
Complexity proves nothing! Natural Selection hones and refines the current "design". Bacteria live relatively short lives, many reproductive generations means that they adapt quickly to changing circumstances. Observe how quickly they develope immunity to the various types of antibiotics tha humans use to kill them...proof of Natural Selection!
Whether you believe in an intelligent designer of the natural world or not, using things which no one fully understands to try to beat the other side into submission by adding condescending remarks is pointless. You see it with your own eyes for what it is. Draw your own conclusion. If someone doesn't see what you see and doesn't want to, then let them. The fact that you are able to have your own opinion means you should be allowed. Isn't that universally self-evident whatever you believe in?
Those fuckers multiply like crazy!!!!!!!! I dont think you can deduce the existence of god from this, sorry :S Its just a fact, pretty amazing though!
@SuperMrAtheist - Known implies proven. While it remains theory because it is simply a theory that remains to be proven. The belief in evolution is in itself much like a religion or faith. It requires immense belief in something that may never be proven.
@TalmudTommy Evolution is a scientific theory. If you know what that means. You would know that evolution has been proven in many different scientific fields.
first learn the difference between evolution and abiogenesis, then learn the difference between a modern bacteria and the early ones. fail on every level.
Oh and for those of you who do not know the flagellum is an evolved form of a protein injection system that many bacteria use to survive.... Interesting how the parts are essentially the same just used differently with a few changes. EVOLUTION is real.
oh wow, if bacteria isn't simple then some one must of thought about it! That means God did it! But wait! God surely isn't simple because he thought about everething. That means some one must have thought about God!
Indeed veemonro, when people try to logically disprove God, their "logic" is shown to be stupid. Thankyou for pointing that out agin with your example.
bafflingly stupid attempt to prove god:P its not even the classic "God of the gaps" which is just hilarious to start with. You try to prove with the fact that the lack of information proves something? thats not how logics work in an intelligent brain. besides we have the info, your just not smart enough to understand it, or simply ignore. its called natural selection. Keep going with the intelligent design assumption tho, will turn alot of intelligent ppl over to atheism, what an ironic name:P
@TheAllien111 - As opposed to the ridiculous and failed attempts to prove the theory of the big bang, which the entire evolution theory depends upon?!
@TalmudTommy You should read some before commenting:P And i dont mean by imbecile religious apologist "scientists" :p
Big bang is a theory that is well on its way to be proven, with great likelyhood, and its not connected to evolution.
Scientists theories are very likely to be true, and atleast possible. You should instead investigate the likelyhood of your faith, and why on earth anyone intelligent should believe such things without no justification or reason.
Well then we can make an equal statement that God is not very simple. He created the universe and all the infinitely complex mechanisms that drives the universe. He, couldn't have been created by accident...
These arguments gets ridiculous even if you are a believer or not.
Maybe the universe is a kinda weird simulation, made to fuck with our heads...
Since a) bacterias are complex AND b) I am amazed how that can be THEN c) god exists.
THEREFORE: anything can be proven by amazing people!
(Note: No, I do not find electrical motors complex, on the contrary electrical motors are beautiful simple compared to most other things. I would had been more impressed if they had found a molecular 4 stroke combustion engine doing the trick...still not very complex but way more complex than an electrical motor)
@jomen112 Mr Jomen WE christians don't look for evidence, WE know this, because HE revealed HIMSELF to US. He can be found, if we believe. For we know we are God's children, we want as many people to know this also, because we care, and ultimately everyone dies and comes to stand before Him, either in white clothes, or completely silenced and trembling by this awesome site. SO this bacteria may be usefull to us to show you there is a God, but God can be seen everywhere, colours, universe, life
@dontourage HAARP, i am not really sure it exists, but if it exists it would be a very boasting action af mankind. God laughs at their plans, or allows it to happen. Two years ago I started investigating all kinds of things, 9-11, the wars, all the standard conspiracy theories, illuminati etc. Then I remembered from my youth the book Revelation, and it all fitted together, we are slowly growing to a one world government, ultimately with the antichrist as ruler, because man doesn't want God. 1/2
@dontourage Then knowing personally satan exists, and it being a CREATED FALLEN ANGEL by GOD, I didn't want any part of this anymore in my life. We are all living in BABYLON now, so I searched GOD, and through His Son Jesus Christ we can go back to Him, then He reveals Himself and gives mercy and His Holy Spirit, then we can come to the full knowledge and worship, the spirit cannot be understood by the flesh (mortal man), so it takes faith. no more lies, pure love and truth, please sir, He is
@theonlywayisgay The 'fact' that you are 'convinced' has absolutely no baring on whether there is a 'God.' There can still be a 'God' whether you believe it or not. Truth is truth. Man is so very arrogant and ignorant today, it's quite pathetic. You are 'everything' you have been taught, but not everything you have been taught is 'everything.' No one person has all the answers, no one.
Ok, so let's test the validity of intelligent design "logic".
Ice crystals that form on your window never need humans to form their faceted and complex nature. Therefore all the faceted diamonds and emeralds at your local jewelry store had no intelligent hand in their shaping.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed. Results like these do not belong on the résumé of a Supreme Being. This is the kind of shit you'd expect from an office temp with a bad attitude. And just between you and me, in any decently-run universe, this guy would've been out on his all-powerful ass a long time ago.
@Zooportian If you could only have a glimpse of His Majesty, His Grand Throne, His Almightyness, His Love.
The war and disease and crime and corruption you talk about are the result of MAN being unresponsible and NOT wanting Him arround. People systematicly eject God out of everything, government, school, society, just like Babylon! You as well, you don't believe you don't want Him, so you blaim something you don't want. His Love searched for a way for HIM to be able to come close again, JESUS
@MrTruth111 Yeah, stupid humans. It's all their fault for exercising their free will and causing all those dang hurricanes, earthquakes, virulent microbe infections, floods, wildfires, lightning strikes, volcanic eruptions, meteor impacts, famines, heat waves, cold snaps, cancers, animal attacks, tsunamis, and every other conceivable totally natural out-of-man's-hands disaster.
@MrTruth111 Flagellum is catch 22 for Christianity. If you say it had to be designed then you say God deliberately created the bacteria which cause so much misery & suffering, also God never told anyone the cure, Jesus never either, in fact he said don't bother washing hands before eating (Mark7). If you say well flagellum could evolve after the fall, then everything else could evolve since it is very complex so the Bible is proven false. There could be a good god who takes everyone to heaven.
@zytigon By kno means is it a catch 22, man started sinning in the past, and God limited our lifespan to 120 years. Life and death and disease are part of this natural world. I love God and Jesus, they revealed themselves to me, now I worship them and want learn all their truths, no more lies. God can be found everywhere in His creation, our kowledge of good and evil, colours, love, two dogs playing together, life, a bumblebee, a smiling child, the moon, comets, twilight, rainbow. NO CATCH
And why war, disease and other things meantioned are bad according to you?There are just instruments of evoliution to purify population, eliminate the weak, so that the strong could arise. War is the motor of humanity progress, didn't your hear that? Who are you to decide that is good and that is evil?
@Zooportian The world is in the state it is in because of sin... God had nothing to do with it. It is in a corrupted state because of Man's sin. You need to look deeper and with an open mind.
@CtheWolfe An over simplification as usual; God set up the rules yes, but he gave the world to man and man in-turn by excersing his God given free will gave the world to Satan. This brought death to people through desease etc... Yes - God knew what would happen, but He allowed it because he wanted mankind to have a free will. He knew the cost, but it was worth it to have people "choose" to love Him rather than make us His slaves. Who are you a slave to?
@tKrave "Who are you a slave to?" No one. But consider this God basically has a gun pointed to our heads. Demanding we worship and love him or else face an indescribably horrific fate that never ends. Is that really free will? I mean if I had a gun to your head and demanded your wallet... You would feel no choice but to give it to me. Sure you could not and die but is that really morally right? That is what you claim your god is doing.... but it is our fault he pulls the trigger... Really?
@CtheWolfe God isn't holding anything to your head except life eternal... He said, "See I have set before you life and death, therefore choose life." In the beginning there was no question about if God existed. There was only the question, do you love your life as though it belongs to you or do you love the life God gave you and use it for Him. Hell is not for men but for the Devil and fallen angels, but if you decide to you can go to hell. God gave you a way out.
@tKrave Oh and on a side note. If all this is so important and my eternal salvation depends on it. Would it not actually be common courtesy to at least let me know? I mean. If it were true and your god being all powerful really cared, would he not at least inform every living human? I mean is it not funny no one knew about him until some Christian told him? Which then begs to question everyone who died before hearing about Jesus died in sin, so they went to hell based off geography? get real.
@tKrave And how would our free will even be compromised without sin? I mean we could still choose to do what ever it is we choose to do. Whether its love god or not. I do not see why someone who "loves" all of us would feel its right to have the vast majority of our species tormented eternally because they do not love him. Especially when hes not really around.... I mean honestly God could openly walk among us and that would not impact our free will knowing about him.
@CtheWolfe Ok 1st of all; He is God so regardless if you agree with Him or not really make no difference. and 2nd, it is not Him who has the right so much as it is He who gave you the free will to choose. An example; lets say you get stuck in the mud at a farm; its your fault. Along comes the farmer who can pull you out. So you decide to yell at Him and tell him you disagree with how much mud he has on his farm. That is essentailly what you're saying it seems like.
@tKrave Think about that for a second. Love me or face endless torture. That is your choice. That is exactly the same as "Give me your wallet or die." That really is not a choice is it? I mean how could it be a proper choice. So to say its your choice is wrong. Because in both cases someone else has put you in those circumstances with detrimental consequences it was not your choice to face that. And you are faced with a very cruel choice either way.
@CtheWolfe It is difficult to compare carnal things with spiritual. Your view point is skewed, but this is the bottom line: If you say that you cannot see design in nature then there is no reason to keep talking. If you acknowledge there is design, you must acknowledge the Designer. Athiesm is plain foolishness. How can you as part of the Designer's creation say, "God your methods are wrong..."? but in the end it is your God given right. God set you up with a choice, what will you choose?
@tKrave If I do not see design in nature? Really? Clearly you lack understanding of why the things in nature appear the way they do and hence give the illusion of design especially to a sentient species that has very over active pattern recognition habits because of the way our brains are "wired".
@CtheWolfe Honestly - you can attribute the complexities in nature to "an over active pattern recognition habits.." ? Really? Do you hear yourself? DNA is clearly a designed molecule. Clearly... The process in which the sun burns is highly complex and obviously designed. There 1000 things, you are deceiving yourself! "because of how our brains are wired..." who wired them? or was the just a slip of the tongue?
@tKrave "How can you as part of the Designer's creation say, "God your methods are wrong..."?" Because I have never met, nor conversed with said person and have 0 reason to believe they exist..... and before you jump on me like I do not know. I most likely know your religion and the history behind it better than you do. I am fascinated with religion in general and have spent more time than I care to admit reading the bible and the history surrounding it.... mostly secular history though.
@CtheWolfe Don't assume you know more - your pride is showing and I would submit to you that if you knew so much you would have realized by know that not only is there a God but He can be known. If you haven't spoken with God, then that is your doing not His. God is not going to force you.
@tKrave I went to church for years. I have pastors in my family. I have missionaries that have gone and lived all over the world. I have read the bible multiple times. I have prayed. I have got no sign in the slightest your god exists. I mean that is really all I would ask. Honestly though I made effort yet I found no return and the thing is your god as you would say would know me intimately and would know why I think/feel the way I do. If he loved me he would have met me half way.
@tKrave Somewhere in all that and my studies I just came to the conclusion no gods exist. I mean all religious people say the same things no matter what religion. You all cannot be right, simplest solution you are all wrong. I mean what more evidence do you have than an Islamic person? Or a Hindu? Or anyone who ever believed in the Classical gods? None. In fact in studying I have found much of your religion has been plagiarized
No - Again your thinking is wrong. God is not saying, Love me or burn in hell... He is saying to you; because you have sinned your destiny is Hell. But He has provided a way for us to escape that fate through His sacrifice on the cross. You seem to be saying that God is forcing heaven on you. If you want to go to hell God will defend your decision. There is a Hell and a Heaven; where do you want to go? Its up to you... you can keep being crabby at God or you can meet Him right where you are.
@tKrave You clearly do not understand what it is to be all powerful. When you are all powerful the way things are is always your fault. "But He has provided a way for us to escape that fate through His sacrifice on the cross." Yet there is absolutely know way to know if this is true or not. It might have gotten by 2000 years ago, but now? Really? Sure if god walked among us and said this is the way it is how could you deny or not believe. Yet thats not the case now is it?
@tKrave "you can keep being crabby at God or you can meet Him right where you are." oh I am not crabby. Why would I be crabby at something I do not think is real. Thats almost on par with saying you hate leprechauns because you don't believe in them. I just don't believe. If I seem crabby its because I am humoring the thought that there is a god.... and further specifically the one you believe in. I do not believe.
@CtheWolfe Yes - I should not assume your emotions. Forgive me. In any case; I enjoy these banters and If you will permit me; I hope you will let me to pray for you. I am His representative - I am supposed to have the mind of Christ, (I fall very short...) But I hope my flaws have not soured you on Him, but given you food for thought. There is s saying in the church, "evangelize the world, and if you need to; use words" It is through kindness and love that we preach. This forum is not the best.
@tKrave Do not pray for me. There is no point wasted effort. Prayer has never done anything. I respect the thought but the actual action is pointless in nature. Oh don't think I am in any way angry at you or anything. My pride has nothing to do with my disbelief. In saying do not assume you know more that is because I have studied religion in general for years. For instance you probably have no idea the parallels Jesus shares with every other Sun zodiac god or demi-god do you?
@CtheWolfe Yes - I have heard about the parallels, I believe that there are many counterfit gods and demi-gods. Jesus even warns us of that. As for the legitimacy of Christ, I will point to biblical prophecy and personal healings. My wife has been healed by the Lord et al. There is too much to attribute to His touch to say, its just a placebo effect of just the power of positive thinking. The religion of Chistianity if thought of as a religion will yield religion. Jesus wants fellowship...
@tKrave The parallels are pretty much all pre-Christianity.... I do not see how you cannot take that into account. Everything after sure, but the ones before would hold Christianity in check as a copy-right of sorts. "I will point to biblical prophecy" There was nothing that could not have been self fulfilling within the prophecy of Christ. I mean there was no date specified, no person... Even the gospels conflict on the events that led up to the birth... severely I might add.
@CtheWolfe Its easy, there is no such thing as "pre-Christianity" The old testament is as much about Jesus as the new. There are many examples of Pagan gods porporting to be "pre-Christian" but that is simply not true, a thorough study will show this. The diety of Christ is established well in the old testament. There are over 300 messianic prophecies that were fulfilled by Jesus Christ. The Isaiah scroll dates some 700 years before Jesus manifests as a man. Daniel's 70 weeks, etc.
@tKrave "Its easy, there is no such thing as "pre-Christianity"" There were MANY religions that predate Christianity and Judaism some by thousands of years... some are still practiced today. The roots of Hinduism trace back to around 5500 BCE. They have stories of a virgin birth, deities born Dec 25th etc etc... it has to do with the solar zodiac... Buddhism Predates Christianity by hundreds of years. Buddha was born of a virgin.... see a trend forming?
@tKrave To state there were no gods before Christ is blatantly ignorant of history. Hinduism is known as the oldest living religion. I suggest you check your facts before discussing any further. Pagan religion was one of many.... many.... that predates Christianity. Did you know there has been roughly 70,000-80,000 distinct religions known to man? Yeah.... Guess how many predate yours? ALOT.
@tKrave Mithraism, Classical Roman and Classical Greek mythologies (which were full fledged religions at the time of Christ and before) all had virgin births, gods born on Dec 25th..... The Egyptians had a god named Horus who was born of a virgin, born on Dec 25th, had 12 disciples.... etc etc etc Wait wait wait.... were the Jews not from Egypt? Copied perhaps? Even though there is no evidence of Jews in Egypt....
I couldn't say it more eloquently. Thanks for making it easy for me. Not every body knows( and cares) about how a bacteria moves its ass from A to B, but every body knws n is affected by the things you mentioned p+other 'Acts of God': Earthquakes, Tsunamis, Hurricane etc which affect millions of people at any given moment. Where the hell is He?! Or maybe His job was only to create, but not maintain.Rain=there must be a God! Flood ? Hmm Sorry got to!
@Zooportian Wow, what an ignorant response. Run the program idiot, if you take all the 'bad' things away the human race would break down into a fat, lazy, slave existence. It's about free will. The water that can bathe you, can also drown you! Much of what you mention is man created anyway. A perfect world, or a world where intervention exists outside of the species is in effect a 'slave race' with no free will. You may come back and say, "but we have no free will" - Yes I Do, prove me wrong.
@keyboardmousepad That particular argument has been debunked for *years*. Read scientific literature before throwing claims like that. There is no such thing as irreducible complexity.
Continue using your naturalistic keyboard, attached to your naturalistic computer. Improve your health with your naturalistic prescription meds. Drive your naturalistic automobile. Drink naturalistically filtered water while not having to worry about getting cholera.
Continue to reap the fruits of a civilization built entirely with the naturalistic knowledge of mankind.
You insult the hard work of people who made life good for you.
I'm not even a scientist and this video seems to fail on a lot of just basic levels, not the least of which is the title. Definitely wasn't "mind blowing" to me.
The basal body of the flagella has been found to be similar to the Type III secretion system (TTSS), a needle-like structure that pathogenic germs such as Salmonella and Yersinia pestis use to inject toxins. The needle's base has ten elements in common with the flagellum, but it is missing forty of the proteins that make a flagellum work. Thus, this system negates the claim that taking away any of the flagellum's parts would render it useless. Idiot.
Look up "Ken Miller Bacterial Flagellum" on YouTube for the simple refutation of this breathtaking example of wishful illogic. Parts of the flagellum DO have functions. Therefore, the complexity is NOT irreducible. Michael Behe is wrong again.
ChollieD 6 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I think, it does not seem possible for something like this to have evolved over billions of years. This is far to complex and has too many moving parts that needed to be organized together, and working exactly at the same time for it to work. . You dont need to be very smart to realise that their is an intelligence designer behind this. Even something like HTLM code needs to be keyed correctly i.e. all characters need to be correct or it will not work at all!
geoffrey300 1 week ago
Comment removed
geoffrey300 1 week ago
evolution? this is a fucking perfect motor ffs!
zeyrek2 1 week ago
@zeyrek2 Yes it is perfect...because natural selection has chosen IT from all the faulty ones that arose along the billions of years these bacteria have been multiplying. Those that aren't perfect do not survive. And for the record it's not perfect, because in about 1 year the same bacteria will probably have a slightly different...more effective, motor.
hannrkelley 1 day ago
@hannrkelley First you say : " Yes it is perfect "...then you say : "And for the record it's not perfect, because in about 1 year the same bacteria will probably have a slightly different...more effective, motor."
The motor of a specific type of bacteria looks and is the same today as one from the 1970's , 1600's and even from one that existed millions of years ago. The motor of a bacteria does not change year by year like it does on an outboard motor of a boat.
villontre 1 day ago
watch?v=a_5FToP_mMY&feature=related
ivapino 1 week ago
These flagellum and irreducible complexity arguments have been already refuted.
ivapino 1 week ago
lol. what ignorance.
LAWAGO 2 weeks ago
Comment removed
geoffrey300 3 weeks ago
watch this please: watch?v=a_5FToP_mMY&feature=related
ivapino 1 week ago
let me reduce creationist thinking to its core: wow stuff is complicated --> god
markusb2 1 month ago 5
it took billions of years for the cellular machinery to evolve, then a few 100m's to amplify complexity once they had key components in place. it's thought there was an earlier episode of RNA-only based simpler life. billions of years are a LOOOONG time, and bacteria can try many combinations in parallel... anyone know how many bacteria cells exist on earth? It's quite possible that half-formed peices existed as random mutations, causing no harm until another piece makes it useful
walter0bz 1 month ago
For fuck sake I'm just looking for a video about the flagellum motor and all that's coming up is this creationist crap!
yadayadaetcetc 1 month ago 4
@yadayadaetcetc same here. pretty disappointing.
markusb2 1 month ago
@yadayadaetcetc watch?v=a_5FToP_mMY&feature=related
ivapino 1 week ago
Suggesting what .... God made bacteria as first life on earth then sat back and let evolution do the rest. 99% of species that ever lived are extinct. God created bacteria.... Sigh give me a break
currie1967 1 month ago
Religion running scared....
currie1967 1 month ago
people need to stop hating, nobody can prove that god does or does not exist, theirs nobody right or wrong. so please stop hating on each other
TheXXxSarahJanexXx 1 month ago
@TheXXxSarahJanexXx ah, your right! But, with the facts and the science that we have today, you have to really make a decision. Do some research, and descide what YOU want to believe! That all these parts to the first motor just came from nothing and if they did that they just fell in to place and started working? Or that there was an actual designer that (fine, dont call him God but lets just say it was designed ;) that came up with all the numbers and shapes and hand work to get it going!?!!!
tomascratchbuild3D 1 month ago
@tomascratchbuild3D How does this prove an 'intelligent designer'. They use words such as 'rotor', 'drive shaft' and 'propeller'. But these are words all associated with things that we create. Just because we use are intelligence to create things, doesn't give anyone the right to assume that intelligence created life in the first place. God does not exist FACT!
pompeycharlie 1 month ago
@pompeycharlie Evolution does not consciously change behavior, shape and form in life. It is a simple reaction to change. Nature reacts to the changing and variation of habitat, climate and diet. These changes take place to best suit the environment in which the life form lives. Man created god, not the other way around. God does not exist FACT!
pompeycharlie 1 month ago
@pompeycharlie Haha , i never said that God exists (although thats what strongly believe in) , I said you have to chose what you want to believe with the given Facts. Oh, and wheres the proof to the FACT that you talk about? im NOT saying that I'm right, but i am asking to see your proof. i would like to know the truth if you have some!
tomascratchbuild3D 1 month ago
@pompeycharlie DONT FORGET... these youtube conversations are just supposed to be knowlege sharing. virtually smack me if I sound rude, I really dont intend to be! I call it "interactive research"! hope alls well man, take care and God bless!
-Scratchbuild
tomascratchbuild3D 1 month ago
@tomascratchbuild3D I just don't see the need to share the so called 'knowledge' that this video thinks it is demonstrating. A complete load of crap which states, 'therefore life has an intelligent designer'. That's not an answer. You could put any answer to this crap, 'therefore a gangrene infested foot created the universe' or 'therefore life was created in the deepest, darkest depths of an anal passage'. God does not exist FACT.
pompeycharlie 1 month ago
@pompeycharlie mmmmhhhmmmm... still didnt answer my question. no big deal! take care man! God bless,
-scratchbuild
tomascratchbuild3D 1 month ago
@tomascratchbuild3D The very FACT that there is no proof/evidence of god whatsoever, makes it a FACT that he does not exist. Otherwise anyone could make up any story and say it's true. The story of Father Christmas is not true, but the only people who believe it is, are under 10 years old. Very much like the mind set of these jesus people. God does not exist FACT.
pompeycharlie 1 month ago
@pompeycharlie alrighty ;) take care!
tomascratchbuild3D 1 month ago
@pompeycharlie whilst I agree with the premise of your arguement and I am not fully advocating the existance of god you can still cant prove it as a fact that he doesnt exist. There may be things out in space that we havent discovered yet but because we havent seen them doesnt mean that they dont exist. The absence of evidence for god leads you to believe he doesnt exist but its still not a fact.
feverpitch82 1 month ago
@feverpitch82 It is an absolute definite FACT that god does not exist. I 100% guarantee you that when you die, you will not be greeted by angels, jesus, god or whoever. There is no heaven or hell or afterlife of any such thing. Science always has, and always will disprove the bible. Bible basher's thought the earth only to be a few thousand years old, and when dinosaur bones were discovered that were millions of years old, the jesus people shit themselves.
pompeycharlie 1 month ago
@tomascratchbuild3D This video is an assumption, not a fact. A very wrong assumption at that.
pompeycharlie 1 month ago
HAHA! Laughable! They say the complexity of the bacteria is so unexplainable, that they must of been "created". HAHA! That is just an easy way out and a quick answer to something that cannot be explained by ignorant creationists (all of them ignorant). Life didn't need intelligence behind it to begin. Just because we use our intelligence to create things, doesn't give anyone the right to assume that therefore an intelligence must of created life. Get over it and move on, God does not exist FACT
pompeycharlie 1 month ago
Comment removed
tomascratchbuild3D 1 month ago
@pompeycharlie Or that there was an actual designer that came up with all the numbers and shapes and hand work to get it going!?!!!
tomascratchbuild3D 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@pompeycharlie Awesome! wheres your proof? ;) you must be able to proove it if your going to make such a bold statement ;) with the facts and the science that we have today, along with other events that have occured, you have to really make a decision. Do some research, and descide what YOU want to believe! That all these parts to the first motor just came from nothing and if they did that they just fell in to place and started working? (continued below)
tomascratchbuild3D 1 month ago
Ok, I thought about it- and you're Still Wrong.
Spikebert 1 month ago
LOL! Yeah, my life for ever changed... Better luck next time.
lmcdowall 1 month ago
Typical creationist pap. The best thing about this video is that is proves the willingness of religious scum to deliberately deceive others by omitting the information that proves the flagellum did evolve (ie similar biological machinery with different functions.)
ananiasacts 1 month ago
The person who made this does not know what they are talking about.
The flagellum is developed from other valve like structures in the cell wall. It is not irreducibly complex.
This piece of creationist evangelical religious propaganda was debunked a long time ago, and yet whoever made this does not know that.
peterloohunt 1 month ago
WELL EXPLAIN THIS, A BIOLOGICAL MOTOR , ALL UNDER INTELLIGENT CONTROL OF A ONE CELL LIFE FORM .. EXPLAIN THAT WITH EVOLUTION..
GIANFRANCO FRONZI. DEC. 31/11
9493760 2 months ago in playlist More videos from hanbouman
@9493760 "God did it." You might be satisfied with that, but I'm not. So even if evolution can't explain something, that doesn't mean we're not supposed to keep asking questions, and finding new ways to explain how life changes.
Nepycros 2 months ago
@Nepycros WHAT YOU'V JUST SAID MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE.
G. FRONZI
9493760 2 months ago
@9493760 Huh, I would've thought you'd actually take time to try and understand what I wrote.
Nepycros 2 months ago
@Nepycros Yes ,you begin with what should have been the end . Then you say o. k. lets not stop asking questions And on that i agree whole, we are seeking for answers to some very surprising .discoveries , it all leads to wanting to know , no matter how much it takes.
Thanks. GIANFRANCO FRONZI. JAN. 1 /12
9493760 2 months ago
Species can be bread to other species and be unable to mate. Fruit flies were used. Your a idiot deal with it
cosmo1pug 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Yes, bacteria are complex. So what? We only say they're "simple" in comparrison to us. Notions of "complex" and "simple" are relative terms. Even if we assume that bacteria was "created", then that does not tell us anything about their creator. It could have been aliens for all we know. "Evidence" for creation (if you can call it that) is still not evidence for a divine God. But I still think it's more likely the bacteria in question simply evolved from even simpler forms...
scottbignell 2 months ago
Comment removed
scottbignell 2 months ago
Well it was a hollow pilus that evolved for motility. Bacteria is one of the best examples of evolution because of its reproductive rate, thousands of generations can be studied in a short time. As far as god making it, you are attributing one of the most destructive life forms that bring painful death to millions of innocent children a year - to your god. Vibrio cholerae and other bacteria (with flagellum) are human destroying machines. At least it is believable; that is how your god works.
ghastin1 2 months ago
@ghastin1 - Bacteria isn't always a negative thing though is it?! Religion may have many unanswered questions. But then so does evolution, which simply relies upon the theory of a series of coincidences, based on the coincidence of the big bang that is also just a theory.
TalmudTommy 2 months ago
@TalmudTommy By its nature "Christians, slaves, and soldiers, ask no questions" (Jerry Falwell), and never will. Evolution, science and the scientific method by nature always question and change when it finds an error. I.e. Darwin had unanswered questions 160 years ago that genomic sequencing and DNA answered. He also questioned transitional fossils of which science now has a more complete record. The word coincidence implies no apparent connection; causation might be a better word.
ghastin1 2 months ago
@ghastin1 - On the contrary, religious people, or even just agnostics ask many questions. But they also accept that some things cannot be explained because of our limited brain capacity.
But scientists tend to look for the slightest hint of proof that they could be right. Instead of subjecting a theory to actual scutiny so as to find whether it can withstand true testing. It is easy to prove one is right if one only looks for evidence to support their theory.
TalmudTommy 2 months ago
@ghastin1 - And what evolutionists fail to admit is that one cannot change their DNA. A species can be bred with certain strenghs such as intelligence and physical greatness. But they can never be bred in to an entirely different species. And with that the evolution theory falls to pieces.
TalmudTommy 2 months ago
@TalmudTommy DNA changes with every single member of the generation. Denying evolution is denying genetic diversity.
Nepycros 2 months ago
@Nepycros - While DNA may develope different strenghs, weaknesses and such through the generations, the DNA in a generation remains the same. You can breed strenghs or weaknesses. But you cannot breed a different species.
Sex change is another flaw in the belief of evolution, you cannot change your chromosomes despite mass mutilation of the body and hormones. Evolution has never and will never be proven.
TalmudTommy 2 months ago
@TalmudTommy Will never be proven? I suppose you think annual flu shots are completely useless. The thousands of trained medical officials who make antibiotics to combat the flu virus, which changes constantly, are clearly mistaken. Since the flu virus doesn't evolve, after all.
Nepycros 2 months ago
@Nepycros - The flu vaccine is in no way helpful at all. Vaccines weaken the immune system causing simple illnesses to be a much greater problem as the immune system no longer has the strength to fight them. Pharmaceutical medication is bad for the body. And vaccines contain a lot of dangerous chemicals that cause brain damage and cancer. So your entire point is utter bollocks. Perhaps you should research what is actually in these vaccines and medications?!
TalmudTommy 2 months ago
@TalmudTommy Vaccines are based on using dead or weakened disease cells in order to test and STRENGTHEN the immune system. I don't know what faulty research you've done in the field, but trying to discredit medical science as a whole makes me think you have little sense of judgement in terms of deciding whether or not over the course of millions of years, mutations and genetic diversity can cause enough variety that one species can create a whole new one.
Nepycros 2 months ago
@Nepycros - Faulty research? Try actual research. Vaccines contain formaldehyde, mercury, aspartame (artificial sweetener that causes brain damage and turns in to formaldehyde in the blood stream) and aluminium. How exactly are they beneficial?! Formaldehyde causes cancer and therefore will weaken the immune system. Obviously you take the pharmaceutical lies for granted.
TalmudTommy 1 month ago
@Nepycros - *develop
TalmudTommy 2 months ago
@SpiritualParadise
ohhh so deep. lol. can't even type your own thoughts.
DataSe7en 2 months ago
its not god, its evolution. They evolved into that. and yes it is incredible that a rotary motor exists at that scale.
creativeprojects720 2 months ago
what kind of naive person put this vid together? It can only "convince" those who are already "convinced" - uneducated folks on this subject
julqw2 2 months ago
a spoon is made by millions of millions of atoms! how is possible that a man can put in order so many atoms and obtain the shape of a spoon? i belive that there is a god that created the first spoon, and duplicate it till all the mans can have one, so they can feed themselves with a holy soup. That's why i say let's destroy the vatican and make a giant "spoon shaped god" monument near rome, let's do it.
drughello 2 months ago
Evidence do not prove the existence of God actually. The evidence have always been here, and it is overwhelming. Ones core-vision which is a pre-analytic thing determines what or how one sees, more than his logic.
Actually evidenced based knowledge aquisition is probably the most unreliable method. It is subject to the inherent flaws in ourselves -- prone to cheat, lie and make mistakes. Where and when a worldview/ideology is threatened, objectivity is lost.
mhearstify 2 months ago
Any atheist answer these questions
Do cells, DNA, the universe ect show organization and repeat patterns
To organized things which have patterns come about by intelligent creation or randomly
d3ltadrive 2 months ago
What's complex to one, is not necessarily complex to another. The basic workings of an electric motor are actually quite simple and understandable. Evolution is what's real.
lancethrustworthy 2 months ago
The argument behind intelligent design is not dependent on complexity alone. The point is that multiple complexities exist at one time that are not only interrelated but are interdependent. The removal of one complex system is enough to ensure the demise of the entire system. The point is that a slow process of change over time is not sufficient to produce such an interdependent complex system. Neo-Darwinians “believe,” in a process that is lacking a solid explanation of the facts.
Bill2Wheeler 2 months ago
Complexity proves nothing! Natural Selection hones and refines the current "design". Bacteria live relatively short lives, many reproductive generations means that they adapt quickly to changing circumstances. Observe how quickly they develope immunity to the various types of antibiotics tha humans use to kill them...proof of Natural Selection!
55chh 2 months ago
@55chh that's correct.
creativeprojects720 2 months ago
Whether you believe in an intelligent designer of the natural world or not, using things which no one fully understands to try to beat the other side into submission by adding condescending remarks is pointless. You see it with your own eyes for what it is. Draw your own conclusion. If someone doesn't see what you see and doesn't want to, then let them. The fact that you are able to have your own opinion means you should be allowed. Isn't that universally self-evident whatever you believe in?
JasonCaesare 3 months ago
Those fuckers multiply like crazy!!!!!!!! I dont think you can deduce the existence of god from this, sorry :S Its just a fact, pretty amazing though!
tedoymisojos 3 months ago 2
How can you even keep this video up. The steps how it evolved has been known for a while.
SuperMrAtheist 3 months ago
@SuperMrAtheist - Known implies proven. While it remains theory because it is simply a theory that remains to be proven. The belief in evolution is in itself much like a religion or faith. It requires immense belief in something that may never be proven.
TalmudTommy 2 months ago
@TalmudTommy Evolution is a scientific theory. If you know what that means. You would know that evolution has been proven in many different scientific fields.
So yes. It has been proven.
SuperMrAtheist 2 months ago
The Bacteria is my God.
dionysus661 3 months ago
.....simple = single celled
retard
nclaes1 3 months ago
well, these werent the VERY first life forms. and simple is only in comparison to us.
Selesniac 4 months ago
Hahaha this is the argument that caused the Dover debacle decision when creatard Behe tried to use it for creationism.
77Totems 4 months ago
first learn the difference between evolution and abiogenesis, then learn the difference between a modern bacteria and the early ones. fail on every level.
aj19bcx 4 months ago
Oh and for those of you who do not know the flagellum is an evolved form of a protein injection system that many bacteria use to survive.... Interesting how the parts are essentially the same just used differently with a few changes. EVOLUTION is real.
CtheWolfe 4 months ago
oh wow, if bacteria isn't simple then some one must of thought about it! That means God did it! But wait! God surely isn't simple because he thought about everething. That means some one must have thought about God!
Stupid Logic is Stupid.
veemonro 4 months ago
@veemonro
Indeed veemonro, when people try to logically disprove God, their "logic" is shown to be stupid. Thankyou for pointing that out agin with your example.
tubewatch59 4 months ago
Can I get my two minutes back please? What a waste of my fucking time.
pimpymcdougall 4 months ago
bafflingly stupid attempt to prove god:P its not even the classic "God of the gaps" which is just hilarious to start with. You try to prove with the fact that the lack of information proves something? thats not how logics work in an intelligent brain. besides we have the info, your just not smart enough to understand it, or simply ignore. its called natural selection. Keep going with the intelligent design assumption tho, will turn alot of intelligent ppl over to atheism, what an ironic name:P
TheAllien111 4 months ago
@TheAllien111 - As opposed to the ridiculous and failed attempts to prove the theory of the big bang, which the entire evolution theory depends upon?!
TalmudTommy 2 months ago
@TalmudTommy You should read some before commenting:P And i dont mean by imbecile religious apologist "scientists" :p
Big bang is a theory that is well on its way to be proven, with great likelyhood, and its not connected to evolution.
Scientists theories are very likely to be true, and atleast possible. You should instead investigate the likelyhood of your faith, and why on earth anyone intelligent should believe such things without no justification or reason.
Open a book
TheAllien111 2 months ago
Well then we can make an equal statement that God is not very simple. He created the universe and all the infinitely complex mechanisms that drives the universe. He, couldn't have been created by accident...
These arguments gets ridiculous even if you are a believer or not.
Maybe the universe is a kinda weird simulation, made to fuck with our heads...
bolibumppa 4 months ago
Logic of argument IF a AND b THEN c.
Since a) bacterias are complex AND b) I am amazed how that can be THEN c) god exists.
THEREFORE: anything can be proven by amazing people!
(Note: No, I do not find electrical motors complex, on the contrary electrical motors are beautiful simple compared to most other things. I would had been more impressed if they had found a molecular 4 stroke combustion engine doing the trick...still not very complex but way more complex than an electrical motor)
jomen112 4 months ago
@jomen112 Mr Jomen WE christians don't look for evidence, WE know this, because HE revealed HIMSELF to US. He can be found, if we believe. For we know we are God's children, we want as many people to know this also, because we care, and ultimately everyone dies and comes to stand before Him, either in white clothes, or completely silenced and trembling by this awesome site. SO this bacteria may be usefull to us to show you there is a God, but God can be seen everywhere, colours, universe, life
MrTruth111 4 months ago
not so fast stormzephyr,ever heard of HAARP,im no weatherman,but the weather looks like its controlled,do some research on this
dontourage 4 months ago
@dontourage HAARP, i am not really sure it exists, but if it exists it would be a very boasting action af mankind. God laughs at their plans, or allows it to happen. Two years ago I started investigating all kinds of things, 9-11, the wars, all the standard conspiracy theories, illuminati etc. Then I remembered from my youth the book Revelation, and it all fitted together, we are slowly growing to a one world government, ultimately with the antichrist as ruler, because man doesn't want God. 1/2
MrTruth111 4 months ago
@dontourage Then knowing personally satan exists, and it being a CREATED FALLEN ANGEL by GOD, I didn't want any part of this anymore in my life. We are all living in BABYLON now, so I searched GOD, and through His Son Jesus Christ we can go back to Him, then He reveals Himself and gives mercy and His Holy Spirit, then we can come to the full knowledge and worship, the spirit cannot be understood by the flesh (mortal man), so it takes faith. no more lies, pure love and truth, please sir, He is
MrTruth111 4 months ago
Dude, you are a complete idiot that got a hold of a 30 yr or so old science film..
OpenWide1158 4 months ago
Ok dude, thanks to cience you know that bacteria are not simple,...SO WHAT????
FractalSequoia 4 months ago
What the hell are those creacionists?
joansanmiguel 4 months ago
Well after watching that It's convinced me there is NO God whatsoever. Good job, thanks :-)
theonlywayisgay 4 months ago 17
@theonlywayisgay The 'fact' that you are 'convinced' has absolutely no baring on whether there is a 'God.' There can still be a 'God' whether you believe it or not. Truth is truth. Man is so very arrogant and ignorant today, it's quite pathetic. You are 'everything' you have been taught, but not everything you have been taught is 'everything.' No one person has all the answers, no one.
itstheignoranceofman 3 months ago 2
@itstheignoranceofman I agree
mrcjrowe 3 months ago
@itstheignoranceofman And that's why goddidit!
ApatheticOmniscience 2 months ago
Comment removed
mrcjrowe 3 months ago
Evolution is not a guiding force, creation is. Enough said.
villontre 4 months ago
The stupidity of some people is astounding! Creationists just don't seem to understand how evolution works do they?
spyrolad 4 months ago
@spyrolad Totally agree... but its not that hard, I think they choose NOT to understand.
ElijahBailey2000 4 months ago
Ok, so let's test the validity of intelligent design "logic".
Ice crystals that form on your window never need humans to form their faceted and complex nature. Therefore all the faceted diamonds and emeralds at your local jewelry store had no intelligent hand in their shaping.
Hm... Creationist logic fails. What a surprise.
Enginmaster 5 months ago
@Enginmaster That's one hell of a question. Nice....
MetalxXxMayhem 5 months ago
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed. Results like these do not belong on the résumé of a Supreme Being. This is the kind of shit you'd expect from an office temp with a bad attitude. And just between you and me, in any decently-run universe, this guy would've been out on his all-powerful ass a long time ago.
Zooportian 5 months ago 17
@Zooportian XD!! I've read that somewhere!! Fuckin awesome!!
MetalxXxMayhem 5 months ago
@Zooportian If you could only have a glimpse of His Majesty, His Grand Throne, His Almightyness, His Love.
The war and disease and crime and corruption you talk about are the result of MAN being unresponsible and NOT wanting Him arround. People systematicly eject God out of everything, government, school, society, just like Babylon! You as well, you don't believe you don't want Him, so you blaim something you don't want. His Love searched for a way for HIM to be able to come close again, JESUS
MrTruth111 4 months ago
@MrTruth111 Yeah, stupid humans. It's all their fault for exercising their free will and causing all those dang hurricanes, earthquakes, virulent microbe infections, floods, wildfires, lightning strikes, volcanic eruptions, meteor impacts, famines, heat waves, cold snaps, cancers, animal attacks, tsunamis, and every other conceivable totally natural out-of-man's-hands disaster.
Oh wait.
StormZephyr 4 months ago
@MrTruth111 Flagellum is catch 22 for Christianity. If you say it had to be designed then you say God deliberately created the bacteria which cause so much misery & suffering, also God never told anyone the cure, Jesus never either, in fact he said don't bother washing hands before eating (Mark7). If you say well flagellum could evolve after the fall, then everything else could evolve since it is very complex so the Bible is proven false. There could be a good god who takes everyone to heaven.
zytigon 4 months ago
@zytigon By kno means is it a catch 22, man started sinning in the past, and God limited our lifespan to 120 years. Life and death and disease are part of this natural world. I love God and Jesus, they revealed themselves to me, now I worship them and want learn all their truths, no more lies. God can be found everywhere in His creation, our kowledge of good and evil, colours, love, two dogs playing together, life, a bumblebee, a smiling child, the moon, comets, twilight, rainbow. NO CATCH
MrTruth111 4 months ago
@Zooportian You should've put the source of that quote, "George Carlin" The one and only. RIP.
Garoto0530 4 months ago
@Garoto0530 yeah sorry ran outta space. Carlin's a legend.
Zooportian 4 months ago
@Zooportian
And why war, disease and other things meantioned are bad according to you?There are just instruments of evoliution to purify population, eliminate the weak, so that the strong could arise. War is the motor of humanity progress, didn't your hear that? Who are you to decide that is good and that is evil?
DaliusR10 4 months ago
@Zooportian
Lol, I see you're a George Carlin fan ;)
OrthodoxDarwinist 4 months ago
@Zooportian The world is in the state it is in because of sin... God had nothing to do with it. It is in a corrupted state because of Man's sin. You need to look deeper and with an open mind.
tKrave 4 months ago
@tKrave Who decided that there should be sin? God. Nothing exists without god right? So God created sin not us.
CtheWolfe 4 months ago
@CtheWolfe An over simplification as usual; God set up the rules yes, but he gave the world to man and man in-turn by excersing his God given free will gave the world to Satan. This brought death to people through desease etc... Yes - God knew what would happen, but He allowed it because he wanted mankind to have a free will. He knew the cost, but it was worth it to have people "choose" to love Him rather than make us His slaves. Who are you a slave to?
tKrave 4 months ago
@tKrave "Who are you a slave to?" No one. But consider this God basically has a gun pointed to our heads. Demanding we worship and love him or else face an indescribably horrific fate that never ends. Is that really free will? I mean if I had a gun to your head and demanded your wallet... You would feel no choice but to give it to me. Sure you could not and die but is that really morally right? That is what you claim your god is doing.... but it is our fault he pulls the trigger... Really?
CtheWolfe 4 months ago
@CtheWolfe God isn't holding anything to your head except life eternal... He said, "See I have set before you life and death, therefore choose life." In the beginning there was no question about if God existed. There was only the question, do you love your life as though it belongs to you or do you love the life God gave you and use it for Him. Hell is not for men but for the Devil and fallen angels, but if you decide to you can go to hell. God gave you a way out.
tKrave 4 months ago
@tKrave Oh and on a side note. If all this is so important and my eternal salvation depends on it. Would it not actually be common courtesy to at least let me know? I mean. If it were true and your god being all powerful really cared, would he not at least inform every living human? I mean is it not funny no one knew about him until some Christian told him? Which then begs to question everyone who died before hearing about Jesus died in sin, so they went to hell based off geography? get real.
CtheWolfe 4 months ago
@tKrave And how would our free will even be compromised without sin? I mean we could still choose to do what ever it is we choose to do. Whether its love god or not. I do not see why someone who "loves" all of us would feel its right to have the vast majority of our species tormented eternally because they do not love him. Especially when hes not really around.... I mean honestly God could openly walk among us and that would not impact our free will knowing about him.
CtheWolfe 4 months ago
@CtheWolfe Ok 1st of all; He is God so regardless if you agree with Him or not really make no difference. and 2nd, it is not Him who has the right so much as it is He who gave you the free will to choose. An example; lets say you get stuck in the mud at a farm; its your fault. Along comes the farmer who can pull you out. So you decide to yell at Him and tell him you disagree with how much mud he has on his farm. That is essentailly what you're saying it seems like.
tKrave 4 months ago
@tKrave Think about that for a second. Love me or face endless torture. That is your choice. That is exactly the same as "Give me your wallet or die." That really is not a choice is it? I mean how could it be a proper choice. So to say its your choice is wrong. Because in both cases someone else has put you in those circumstances with detrimental consequences it was not your choice to face that. And you are faced with a very cruel choice either way.
CtheWolfe 4 months ago
@CtheWolfe It is difficult to compare carnal things with spiritual. Your view point is skewed, but this is the bottom line: If you say that you cannot see design in nature then there is no reason to keep talking. If you acknowledge there is design, you must acknowledge the Designer. Athiesm is plain foolishness. How can you as part of the Designer's creation say, "God your methods are wrong..."? but in the end it is your God given right. God set you up with a choice, what will you choose?
tKrave 4 months ago
@tKrave If I do not see design in nature? Really? Clearly you lack understanding of why the things in nature appear the way they do and hence give the illusion of design especially to a sentient species that has very over active pattern recognition habits because of the way our brains are "wired".
CtheWolfe 4 months ago
@CtheWolfe Honestly - you can attribute the complexities in nature to "an over active pattern recognition habits.." ? Really? Do you hear yourself? DNA is clearly a designed molecule. Clearly... The process in which the sun burns is highly complex and obviously designed. There 1000 things, you are deceiving yourself! "because of how our brains are wired..." who wired them? or was the just a slip of the tongue?
tKrave 4 months ago
@tKrave "How can you as part of the Designer's creation say, "God your methods are wrong..."?" Because I have never met, nor conversed with said person and have 0 reason to believe they exist..... and before you jump on me like I do not know. I most likely know your religion and the history behind it better than you do. I am fascinated with religion in general and have spent more time than I care to admit reading the bible and the history surrounding it.... mostly secular history though.
CtheWolfe 4 months ago
@CtheWolfe Don't assume you know more - your pride is showing and I would submit to you that if you knew so much you would have realized by know that not only is there a God but He can be known. If you haven't spoken with God, then that is your doing not His. God is not going to force you.
tKrave 4 months ago
@tKrave I went to church for years. I have pastors in my family. I have missionaries that have gone and lived all over the world. I have read the bible multiple times. I have prayed. I have got no sign in the slightest your god exists. I mean that is really all I would ask. Honestly though I made effort yet I found no return and the thing is your god as you would say would know me intimately and would know why I think/feel the way I do. If he loved me he would have met me half way.
CtheWolfe 4 months ago
@tKrave Somewhere in all that and my studies I just came to the conclusion no gods exist. I mean all religious people say the same things no matter what religion. You all cannot be right, simplest solution you are all wrong. I mean what more evidence do you have than an Islamic person? Or a Hindu? Or anyone who ever believed in the Classical gods? None. In fact in studying I have found much of your religion has been plagiarized
CtheWolfe 4 months ago
No - Again your thinking is wrong. God is not saying, Love me or burn in hell... He is saying to you; because you have sinned your destiny is Hell. But He has provided a way for us to escape that fate through His sacrifice on the cross. You seem to be saying that God is forcing heaven on you. If you want to go to hell God will defend your decision. There is a Hell and a Heaven; where do you want to go? Its up to you... you can keep being crabby at God or you can meet Him right where you are.
tKrave 4 months ago
@tKrave You clearly do not understand what it is to be all powerful. When you are all powerful the way things are is always your fault. "But He has provided a way for us to escape that fate through His sacrifice on the cross." Yet there is absolutely know way to know if this is true or not. It might have gotten by 2000 years ago, but now? Really? Sure if god walked among us and said this is the way it is how could you deny or not believe. Yet thats not the case now is it?
CtheWolfe 4 months ago
@tKrave "you can keep being crabby at God or you can meet Him right where you are." oh I am not crabby. Why would I be crabby at something I do not think is real. Thats almost on par with saying you hate leprechauns because you don't believe in them. I just don't believe. If I seem crabby its because I am humoring the thought that there is a god.... and further specifically the one you believe in. I do not believe.
CtheWolfe 4 months ago
@CtheWolfe Yes - I should not assume your emotions. Forgive me. In any case; I enjoy these banters and If you will permit me; I hope you will let me to pray for you. I am His representative - I am supposed to have the mind of Christ, (I fall very short...) But I hope my flaws have not soured you on Him, but given you food for thought. There is s saying in the church, "evangelize the world, and if you need to; use words" It is through kindness and love that we preach. This forum is not the best.
tKrave 4 months ago
@tKrave Do not pray for me. There is no point wasted effort. Prayer has never done anything. I respect the thought but the actual action is pointless in nature. Oh don't think I am in any way angry at you or anything. My pride has nothing to do with my disbelief. In saying do not assume you know more that is because I have studied religion in general for years. For instance you probably have no idea the parallels Jesus shares with every other Sun zodiac god or demi-god do you?
CtheWolfe 4 months ago
@CtheWolfe Yes - I have heard about the parallels, I believe that there are many counterfit gods and demi-gods. Jesus even warns us of that. As for the legitimacy of Christ, I will point to biblical prophecy and personal healings. My wife has been healed by the Lord et al. There is too much to attribute to His touch to say, its just a placebo effect of just the power of positive thinking. The religion of Chistianity if thought of as a religion will yield religion. Jesus wants fellowship...
tKrave 4 months ago
@tKrave The parallels are pretty much all pre-Christianity.... I do not see how you cannot take that into account. Everything after sure, but the ones before would hold Christianity in check as a copy-right of sorts. "I will point to biblical prophecy" There was nothing that could not have been self fulfilling within the prophecy of Christ. I mean there was no date specified, no person... Even the gospels conflict on the events that led up to the birth... severely I might add.
CtheWolfe 4 months ago
@CtheWolfe Its easy, there is no such thing as "pre-Christianity" The old testament is as much about Jesus as the new. There are many examples of Pagan gods porporting to be "pre-Christian" but that is simply not true, a thorough study will show this. The diety of Christ is established well in the old testament. There are over 300 messianic prophecies that were fulfilled by Jesus Christ. The Isaiah scroll dates some 700 years before Jesus manifests as a man. Daniel's 70 weeks, etc.
tKrave 4 months ago
@tKrave "Its easy, there is no such thing as "pre-Christianity"" There were MANY religions that predate Christianity and Judaism some by thousands of years... some are still practiced today. The roots of Hinduism trace back to around 5500 BCE. They have stories of a virgin birth, deities born Dec 25th etc etc... it has to do with the solar zodiac... Buddhism Predates Christianity by hundreds of years. Buddha was born of a virgin.... see a trend forming?
CtheWolfe 4 months ago
@tKrave To state there were no gods before Christ is blatantly ignorant of history. Hinduism is known as the oldest living religion. I suggest you check your facts before discussing any further. Pagan religion was one of many.... many.... that predates Christianity. Did you know there has been roughly 70,000-80,000 distinct religions known to man? Yeah.... Guess how many predate yours? ALOT.
CtheWolfe 4 months ago
@tKrave Mithraism, Classical Roman and Classical Greek mythologies (which were full fledged religions at the time of Christ and before) all had virgin births, gods born on Dec 25th..... The Egyptians had a god named Horus who was born of a virgin, born on Dec 25th, had 12 disciples.... etc etc etc Wait wait wait.... were the Jews not from Egypt? Copied perhaps? Even though there is no evidence of Jews in Egypt....
CtheWolfe 4 months ago
@Zooportian George Carlin was such a smart guy. I wish people were more like him.
s4n7i460v 3 months ago
@Zooportian
I couldn't say it more eloquently. Thanks for making it easy for me. Not every body knows( and cares) about how a bacteria moves its ass from A to B, but every body knws n is affected by the things you mentioned p+other 'Acts of God': Earthquakes, Tsunamis, Hurricane etc which affect millions of people at any given moment. Where the hell is He?! Or maybe His job was only to create, but not maintain.Rain=there must be a God! Flood ? Hmm Sorry got to!
MrAlibahman 3 months ago
@Zooportian Wow, what an ignorant response. Run the program idiot, if you take all the 'bad' things away the human race would break down into a fat, lazy, slave existence. It's about free will. The water that can bathe you, can also drown you! Much of what you mention is man created anyway. A perfect world, or a world where intervention exists outside of the species is in effect a 'slave race' with no free will. You may come back and say, "but we have no free will" - Yes I Do, prove me wrong.
itstheignoranceofman 3 months ago
Comment removed
Zooportian 3 months ago
Comment removed
Zooportian 3 months ago
Comment removed
Zooportian 3 months ago
Comment removed
Zooportian 3 months ago
Comment removed
Zooportian 3 months ago
Comment removed
Zooportian 3 months ago
@keyboardmousepad That particular argument has been debunked for *years*. Read scientific literature before throwing claims like that. There is no such thing as irreducible complexity.
sbrafk 5 months ago
@orangeswirls21 Yes. God did it. The same God of the Gaps.
Continue using your naturalistic keyboard, attached to your naturalistic computer. Improve your health with your naturalistic prescription meds. Drive your naturalistic automobile. Drink naturalistically filtered water while not having to worry about getting cholera.
Continue to reap the fruits of a civilization built entirely with the naturalistic knowledge of mankind.
You insult the hard work of people who made life good for you.
sbrafk 5 months ago
I'm not even a scientist and this video seems to fail on a lot of just basic levels, not the least of which is the title. Definitely wasn't "mind blowing" to me.
Bear5177 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@orangeswirls21
"Methodological naturalism utterly breaks down at the cellular level"
Explain viruses.
Atomic Theory.
Quantum mechanics.....
You make assertions, but the facts don't bear them out.
odinata 5 months ago
Wow, the evolutionists are really upset about this video and are using insults. That means they have lost the argument already. That was pretty easy.
Iamajanitor01 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Iamajanitor01
I'm glad that you would never insult anybody.
Thats not cool.
The components of bacterial flagellum are not irreducibly complex.
But don't you think its kind of sad that IDers can only use complex things as evidence for their claims?
odinata 5 months ago
I guess thats why I have 25 likes and you have none. Survival of the fittest asshat ;)
Oddessuss 5 months ago
the stupidity... it burns...
red666111 5 months ago
Respond to this video... Excuse me ! Maybe I'm wrong but did they show sperm in this video ?! When was sperm classified as bacteria?
420gma 5 months ago
The basal body of the flagella has been found to be similar to the Type III secretion system (TTSS), a needle-like structure that pathogenic germs such as Salmonella and Yersinia pestis use to inject toxins. The needle's base has ten elements in common with the flagellum, but it is missing forty of the proteins that make a flagellum work. Thus, this system negates the claim that taking away any of the flagellum's parts would render it useless. Idiot.
blublu451 5 months ago
ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz... etc.
HalfFullYeah 5 months ago
this is higly stupid, so everything u can´t understand is automaticly made by a god, srry but this thoug is stupid
xen000 5 months ago
Guess we changed the definition of Mind Blowing. bullshit.
Anforsure 5 months ago