Quick question regarding the "eye-safe" IR laser. Typically, a Class 1 or 2 laser is only eye-safe because of the aversion response, meaning that within 0.25 seconds our eyes see the bright, uncomfortable light, and immediately dart away, keeping us from injury. However, how is the eye supposed to notice an IR light? Bottom line, there is no eye safe IR laser. Any retailer that sells you a Class 1 or 2 IR "eye-safe" laser is only looking at the power output.
@jollyrancher667 I believe they're going by the FDA's guidelines (talking IR here) for actual power output, which is under 1mW for the exact reasons you mention. Not sure if they're really talking about shining it right into the eye, but full powered IR lasers (like the PEQ-2A and PEQ-15) are SO bright that just the IR splash from things like your weapon's accessories, if you have the laser mounted improperly, can cause serious damage if you're not careful, which is why they're restricted.
@jimbo45cal Lol, thanks! That's one of the reason I started making vids like this one. Before I had some of the cool shit I have now, I'd search out vids wanting to see it in use and what it was like. And they were very hard to come by, especially good ones that were longer than a few seconds and actually edited well. So now that I DO have some awesome kit, I wanna make sure others who are into it and want to get it someday for themselves can see some cool footage of it in use. Glad u liked it!
@jimbo45cal Airsoft is is the thorn in the ass of anyone serious about guns, shooting or tactics . Every pussy on the internet that is into airsoft thinks they are a super commando and knows eveything about anything military.
Not only because of the significant offset of the aiming laser from centerline of bore (further compounded at greater distances), but because I'm not even absolutely confident that what I'm shooting at is a threat (unless it is sending rounds at me). Not too long ago, a US Forest Service Officer was killed by a hunter (shooting with NODs) by mistake. The hunter mistook the Forest Service Officer for a Coyote.
Not only because of the significant offset of the aiming laser from centerline of bore (further compounded at greater distances), but because I'm not even absolutely confident that what I'm shooting at is a threat (unless it is sending rounds at me). Not too long ago, a US Forest Service Officer was killed by a hunter (shooting with NODs) by mistake. The hunter mistook the Forest Service Officer for a Coyote.
What position are you in when shooting out to 4-500 with NODs? Are you confident that your round will find its mark at that distance? Do you have data from previous engagements to ensure you have the proper holdover for your shot? How about positive identification of your target?
I've got a lot of hours logged behind a PVS-14 and I own multiple full-power IR aiming lasers, but I'm not confident in sending a round down range at a target 400 yards away. (Part 1).
Don’t get me wrong, obviously I would prefer to have the ATPIAL and I do. That said, for most the DBAL I2 will be more than sufficient and is a giant leap in the right direction as far as civi legal IR lasers are concerned. Just my humble opinion... We should all get together for a night shoot and continue this argument sometime. (Post 3)
Although there are many advantages on running helmet mounted NVGs with weapon mounted IR aiming lasers, the most substantial are safety, situational awareness, and speed of target engagement. These are factors that will mater most when close in where the DBAL I2 will fare just fine. This is generalizing BUT, for the most part hi threat engagements will be 100 and in, and if they are any further out then you will have the time and safety offered by distance to go passive. (Post 2)
I am extremely curious as to how you are positively identifying and engaging targets with non-magnified helmet mounted NVGs out to 400+? Better question might be why not just go passive and mount the NVG on the weapon and not use the IR laser at all? Also if I am engaging targets 400+ I am most likely going to be prone for stability. Prone makes it a pain in the ass to run helmet mounted NVGs, and much more practical to go passive. (Post 1)
@RB6100 The only legal ones are typically LE demo units out on loan. A lot of the ones out there are stolen property. So if you like a knock on the door from CID I'd avoid 99.99 percent of them.
@RB6100 That's a damn good question. Not that I could ever afford one, but I've definitely seen a good share of them in the hands of civilians. Why they're regulated by the food and drug administration is an even bigger head shaker.
Something to keep in mind is that this kind of a test really doesn't show the power output very well. Both your camera and your NOD will basically peak at a certain light level. So a full power PEQ may look the same as one of these lower power civilian safe models, but where rubber really meets road is distance.
Try the PEQ-15 at 600 yds, and watch it absolutely trounce the DBAL-I2.
@lawndartdesign But that's actually the whole point here, dude. It's actually better to use this lower powered IR laser (like this 25 yard flat range) at these closer ranges b/c the Class III's are just overpowered & bloom too much. I can't yet speak to 100 yards & out. But a fellow Texan down here in my parts said he zapped a hog at 200 yards with it. Even if he overestimated that distance (which as you know happens), it'd still be around 150 yards, which is impressive for this unit.
@RetreatHell The biggest thing for me is that the I2s power is so low that on a moonless night it's all good, but on a moonlit night it's very easy to get washed out. I think it's a fine purchase otherwise. To me a PEQ is for 200-600yds and out, and we tried the I2 out in the desert and we lost the dot on a half-moon night. Whereas the HI modes on the 2A and 15 were visible almost to a mile or more.
@lawndartdesign Also I don't even think it'd come close to reaching out to 600, which most people never shoot at during the day, let alone at night where even less people shoot. But then again it's a Class 1 IR laser that anyone can buy without any bullshit to deal with or worry about. Most people will simply never be able to get hold of a full-powered ATPIAL or DBAL, so this is a fantastic option for them.
You really need to check it out before passing judgement on it, too. You'll be surprised.
@RetreatHell It's not the capabilities I take issue with, it's LDI selling these for almost the EXACT same cost as the LE/MIL models. Most of my shooting takes place at 400-500+ at night, so these aren't for me obviously.
@KillerBeeKiller Naw, really dry mouth from one of my medications. Now that I'm aware of it though I'll make sure I drink plenty of water before speaking on video next time. I definitely sound kinda stuffy, though.
Quick question regarding the "eye-safe" IR laser. Typically, a Class 1 or 2 laser is only eye-safe because of the aversion response, meaning that within 0.25 seconds our eyes see the bright, uncomfortable light, and immediately dart away, keeping us from injury. However, how is the eye supposed to notice an IR light? Bottom line, there is no eye safe IR laser. Any retailer that sells you a Class 1 or 2 IR "eye-safe" laser is only looking at the power output.
jollyrancher667 4 months ago
@jollyrancher667 I believe they're going by the FDA's guidelines (talking IR here) for actual power output, which is under 1mW for the exact reasons you mention. Not sure if they're really talking about shining it right into the eye, but full powered IR lasers (like the PEQ-2A and PEQ-15) are SO bright that just the IR splash from things like your weapon's accessories, if you have the laser mounted improperly, can cause serious damage if you're not careful, which is why they're restricted.
RetreatHell 4 months ago
Great video, was just trying to find a comparison video of the DBAL I2 and it's bigger brother. Keep it up brother, enjoy the vids
mhpoole 5 months ago
I shit you not i had to go through 15x airsoft vids before i found this video of the real thing... FUCK! good vid
jimbo45cal 6 months ago
@jimbo45cal Lol, thanks! That's one of the reason I started making vids like this one. Before I had some of the cool shit I have now, I'd search out vids wanting to see it in use and what it was like. And they were very hard to come by, especially good ones that were longer than a few seconds and actually edited well. So now that I DO have some awesome kit, I wanna make sure others who are into it and want to get it someday for themselves can see some cool footage of it in use. Glad u liked it!
RetreatHell 6 months ago
@jimbo45cal Airsoft is is the thorn in the ass of anyone serious about guns, shooting or tactics . Every pussy on the internet that is into airsoft thinks they are a super commando and knows eveything about anything military.
scdefion 3 months ago
Not only because of the significant offset of the aiming laser from centerline of bore (further compounded at greater distances), but because I'm not even absolutely confident that what I'm shooting at is a threat (unless it is sending rounds at me). Not too long ago, a US Forest Service Officer was killed by a hunter (shooting with NODs) by mistake. The hunter mistook the Forest Service Officer for a Coyote.
(Part 2).
glin1216 10 months ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
Not only because of the significant offset of the aiming laser from centerline of bore (further compounded at greater distances), but because I'm not even absolutely confident that what I'm shooting at is a threat (unless it is sending rounds at me). Not too long ago, a US Forest Service Officer was killed by a hunter (shooting with NODs) by mistake. The hunter mistook the Forest Service Officer for a Coyote.
(Part 2)
glin1216 10 months ago
Comment removed
glin1216 10 months ago
Bugman hit it on the head.
What position are you in when shooting out to 4-500 with NODs? Are you confident that your round will find its mark at that distance? Do you have data from previous engagements to ensure you have the proper holdover for your shot? How about positive identification of your target?
I've got a lot of hours logged behind a PVS-14 and I own multiple full-power IR aiming lasers, but I'm not confident in sending a round down range at a target 400 yards away. (Part 1).
glin1216 10 months ago 4
Comment removed
glin1216 10 months ago
Don’t get me wrong, obviously I would prefer to have the ATPIAL and I do. That said, for most the DBAL I2 will be more than sufficient and is a giant leap in the right direction as far as civi legal IR lasers are concerned. Just my humble opinion... We should all get together for a night shoot and continue this argument sometime. (Post 3)
awwbugman 10 months ago 2
Although there are many advantages on running helmet mounted NVGs with weapon mounted IR aiming lasers, the most substantial are safety, situational awareness, and speed of target engagement. These are factors that will mater most when close in where the DBAL I2 will fare just fine. This is generalizing BUT, for the most part hi threat engagements will be 100 and in, and if they are any further out then you will have the time and safety offered by distance to go passive. (Post 2)
awwbugman 10 months ago 3
I am extremely curious as to how you are positively identifying and engaging targets with non-magnified helmet mounted NVGs out to 400+? Better question might be why not just go passive and mount the NVG on the weapon and not use the IR laser at all? Also if I am engaging targets 400+ I am most likely going to be prone for stability. Prone makes it a pain in the ass to run helmet mounted NVGs, and much more practical to go passive. (Post 1)
awwbugman 10 months ago 7
I hate to ask this but where can you get the PEQ-15 ATPIAL?
RB6100 10 months ago
@RB6100 The only legal ones are typically LE demo units out on loan. A lot of the ones out there are stolen property. So if you like a knock on the door from CID I'd avoid 99.99 percent of them.
lawndartdesign 10 months ago
@RB6100 That's a damn good question. Not that I could ever afford one, but I've definitely seen a good share of them in the hands of civilians. Why they're regulated by the food and drug administration is an even bigger head shaker.
Garuda1337 10 months ago
Something to keep in mind is that this kind of a test really doesn't show the power output very well. Both your camera and your NOD will basically peak at a certain light level. So a full power PEQ may look the same as one of these lower power civilian safe models, but where rubber really meets road is distance.
Try the PEQ-15 at 600 yds, and watch it absolutely trounce the DBAL-I2.
lawndartdesign 10 months ago
@lawndartdesign But that's actually the whole point here, dude. It's actually better to use this lower powered IR laser (like this 25 yard flat range) at these closer ranges b/c the Class III's are just overpowered & bloom too much. I can't yet speak to 100 yards & out. But a fellow Texan down here in my parts said he zapped a hog at 200 yards with it. Even if he overestimated that distance (which as you know happens), it'd still be around 150 yards, which is impressive for this unit.
RetreatHell 10 months ago 8
Comment removed
lawndartdesign 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@RetreatHell The biggest thing for me is that the I2s power is so low that on a moonless night it's all good, but on a moonlit night it's very easy to get washed out. I think it's a fine purchase otherwise. To me a PEQ is for 200-600yds and out, and we tried the I2 out in the desert and we lost the dot on a half-moon night. Whereas the HI modes on the 2A and 15 were visible almost to a mile or more.
lawndartdesign 10 months ago
@lawndartdesign Also I don't even think it'd come close to reaching out to 600, which most people never shoot at during the day, let alone at night where even less people shoot. But then again it's a Class 1 IR laser that anyone can buy without any bullshit to deal with or worry about. Most people will simply never be able to get hold of a full-powered ATPIAL or DBAL, so this is a fantastic option for them.
You really need to check it out before passing judgement on it, too. You'll be surprised.
RetreatHell 10 months ago 5
@RetreatHell It's not the capabilities I take issue with, it's LDI selling these for almost the EXACT same cost as the LE/MIL models. Most of my shooting takes place at 400-500+ at night, so these aren't for me obviously.
lawndartdesign 10 months ago
Sounds like you have a cold.
I was just looking at the DBAL (or the other one) at Bravo yesterday and BAM...I see you doing a comparison with another laser. Thanks for the video.
KillerBeeKiller 10 months ago
@KillerBeeKiller Naw, really dry mouth from one of my medications. Now that I'm aware of it though I'll make sure I drink plenty of water before speaking on video next time. I definitely sound kinda stuffy, though.
Side effects suck balls sometimes :(
RetreatHell 10 months ago