The time of which he made up the book of mormon, was a time where many religions were coming about so it was easy just to make up a religion. Also, the bible says that you can't baptize people when they are dead, and this is what mormons do. So according to this idea, i could drink, sleep around, and do drugs all my life and that's ok cause someone can baptize for the dead for me and so i would just be sucked up out of hell? heaven and hell are for eternity.. anyways thanks for posting this vid!
Mormons believe in the bible as well as the book or mormon, and the book of mormon contradicts several things in the bible. Joseph Smith said that in order to get into heaven you have to have at least three wives. Joseph also used a method of the occult in order to translate from the 'golden plates' and he used that method when he was younge to 'find treasure' for people but people were pissed at him because he was decieving and didn't find the treasure for them.
I was taught and read anti-Mormon literature in high school. I had to mull over the issue until I did what we all have to do to find the truth. That is, go to the one source of all truth. In other words we have to read the scriptures and pray with real intent to find if they are true. I have read the Book of Mormon, I prayed about it and I know that it is true. I know that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the true church of Christ.
@schnaglywagon11 You obviously didn't watch the end of the video because you did exactly what I said you would do. I called it 100% I've read it, god told me it was a lie. So one of us is wrong.... if you want to believe a prophet who had many wives when the bible says a leader can only have one, then you know which one of us is biblical and which one isn't
There is little I can do to convince you. All I can say is I know that it is true. I know that if you read the Book of Mormon and pray with a sincere heart, with real intent, you will know that it is true. The Holy Ghost will reveal the truth to you if you are prepared to receive it.
The missionaries can teach you all of this.
p.s.-Isaiah 12: 2. Like many versus in Isaiah, it's difficult to grasp.
"JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation." Who is our Savior?
@schnaglywagon11I would like to give the definition for polytheism real quick since you seem to have your own idea of what it means, Wiakpedia says, Polytheism is a type of theism. Within theism, it contrasts with monotheism, the belief in a singular God. Polytheists do not always worship all the gods equally, but can be Henotheists, specializing in the worship of one particular deity. Any dictionary will contradict what you stated.
@schnaglywagon11 thanks for the response however, you say Mormons are monotheistic the you say there are other Gods. Just because you believe there is only one god for this planet does not make you monotheistic, it is exactly the opposite. monotheism is one God for all planets. I have read and though and what I read in Deut. says that God knows of no other Gods, in heaven above or earth below, he knows not one. So how does JS know something that Gods doesnt?
Mormon's are monotheists. We only have one God. God made a plan for us and provided a way for us to progress through his son Jesus Christ(1 John 4:15). God also gave us a means through which we can better understand His will concerning us. Through the Holy Ghost we receive guidance and personal revelation. Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are not gods, they are members of the god head.
@schnaglywagon11 Mormons may only pray to one god but they teach that Jehovah was once a man and there was a council of gods before him and that Jesus became a god, and that good mormons will be gods.... progression to godhood is not found in the Bible or BoM and its false...
@ssuperbill2 which as a Bible believing Christian I must reject the teachings of the LDS faith. The Bible warns us that false prophets will come and teach another gospel and I'm at least glad that you recognize the Bible does NOT teach any of this, it actually teaches the very opposite.
I can answer more question of you if you reply me back. But I going to answer your first question. Is true is only one God but do you remember Jesus say he and his father and the holy spirit one and the same? So is that mean he and his father is Two God or One God? So tell me one or Two? I say one because they are the same. Joseph Smith not saying here is different god at all. I also can say here is Two god the son and the Father lol. He saying father to the son and the son to the father.
@LifetreeKolobGnolaum I know you think you are asking a really good question but do you have any idea how protestants have answered that question in the past? Do you think we have never read those verses and asked those questions? I'm just curious as to whether or not you have any idea how Christians understand the trinity or if you just know what your church has told you. We believe one God in three persons, they are not just one in purpose because that is 3 Gods
@LifetreeKolobGnolaum if there are 3 gods but one in purpose that goes against the monotheistic teachings of scripture. Jesus is called YWHA the name only given to God so we come to understand that God is one being with three consciousness. I have a body a mind and a soul but there is just one me JS rejects that idea. You didn't really answer the question you just asked one. one I'm really curious about is how JS could have many wives which is not allowed for leadership
@sonofcohen Is not against the monotheistic teachings here is Three gods because they also are one. As you say 3 gods in one purpose one in the other. They are one is just like a Grape. Take a Grape and look you see little grape things they have space on each other like father, son and spirit but they are one. JS didn't rejects or you mess understand. The Father in the Son the son in the father. Jesus in US so we in Jesus also. Leadership come from God as it given to man.
@LifetreeKolobGnolaum they are not just one in purpose they are one in essence. They are the same deity. Do you believe that there is more than one God?
@sonofcohen No. Just one. Is true they are one essence and same deity because they one in the other. I also can say they are two person. What about this? Tell me does Jesus know when is the end of time of his second coming will be? But he say only the father? What about this? The Son can't do anything without the father, if the son can't see what the father do the Son can't do it also. So, what Jesus talking to the father or himself? Why he call himself the son of man? What that mean
@LifetreeKolobGnolaum you ask a lot of questions and either your English isn't very good or your grammar is bad. If you agree, as I do, that there is only one God and that Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and God the father are all the same God, then you and I agree. However, you would not agree with Joseph Smith. What if I could show you that him and man man other of the church prophets said there were literally thousands of Gods and that our God is just one for this planet.
@sonofcohen Those are not a question, is a answer. Is answer of your question. And I have say before those Gods are the same. Like a Grape of the tree. I answer your question or give the question of the answer. Tell me where the Jesus, father and holy spirit come from? If the only one God does exist but where he come from in the beginning. He say he really here in the beginning he a really exist. How can that be?My answer is where he come from? Jesus come form Father but Father from?
@LifetreeKolobGnolaum John 1:1 and Colossians 1:16-17 have your answers. Jesus only came from the father in the flesh they are co-eternal and co existetant. What about my question regarding JS and his many wives?
@sonofcohen Dude is very easy, I have answer your question already. How can you still don't understand? Have I not tell you the eternal father, have I not tell you before existent? Have I not tell you why JS have so many wives? Why you still ask the same question is already answered? I tell you before are they not in the same flash as you come from your mother and your father. One with out beginning and one with out the end? JS only have one Wife.Why you don't ask Abraham many wives?
@LifetreeKolobGnolaum you've answered those already? Perhaps it's because I can barely understand your broken English, half of what you say makes no sense. JS only had one wife? You sure about that? All LDS scholars disagree...
@sonofcohen And verily, verily, I say unto you, that whatsoever you seal on earth shall be sealed in heaven; and whatsoever you bind on earth, in my name and by my word, saith the Lord, it shall be eternally bound in the heavens; and whosesoever sins you remit on earth shall be remitted eternally in the heavens; and whosesoever sins you retain on earth shall be retained in heaven.
Again, no doubt we disagree but thank you for being cordial. These ideas don't come without some very meaty historical evidences both from biblical and ancient documents. You can read them and know these truths for yourself. Even with all the evidence we don't rely on ancient documents, or even the Bible, Bom,or scholarly research for our doctrine. We rely on direct revelation from God for truth, just as all His people ever did. If you still want to discuss your 4 points we can do so in a PM.
@EphraimLDS I rely on revelation from God as well and it his very revelation that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that that JS was not a prophet. There is no meaty historical evidence for the BOM the church won't even name a location for those events. I find that FAIR and most LDS will cling to anything that might even resemble some sort of evidence. If you have answers that prove me wrong, by all means take the time, put a video together and help out your fellow LDS.
@EphraimLDS Ephriam, what you say is what the Muslims will say, and the Jehovas Witnesses. All modern-day revelation MUST CONFORM to the Bible, which is the ancient-day revelation...God doesn't change !
Galatians 1:8
though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
@EphraimLDS I just left the church after being an always active, life long, mission serving, member for 30 years +. I wanted to believe it was true also. The problem is, you can prove it false 10 different ways now that I opened my eyes. You can see some of those ways if you watch the video my family made after leaving. it is posted at the top of PerfectTheSaints org Or you can search for it on YouTube. It is called "Why Our Family Left the Mormon Church"
Moroni and Paul are correct. In Christ we are perfected, even joint heirs, but He requires that we obey God's laws including repentance here and after we die. Our works will be judged. Perfection is promised to all who choose it by following him. Grace is eternal, therefore It's not When it's applicable, but How. We receive His eternal sacrifice in the way He has outlined; by understanding, accepting, and living His gospel. It is the same for all mankind even those who have perished without it.
@EphraimLDS "Our works will be judged" not before we are saved and not for salvation. Works will not keep us from or earn us salvation my friend it is by Grace through our true Faith in Jesus Christ (Ephesians 2:8) alone that will save us.
Yes we must Repent but repent is just to change or turn around. It is that simple trust Jesus and change your life to have a realtionship with Jesus today and you will be saved. No Rules or Works just faith in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour!
So with Grace in mind, the LDS understand that Christ's Grace is sufficient for all mankind, both to those who are living and dead who ever lived. We believe that His grace was just as sufficient for those who lived righteously on this Earth before He came on Earth to atone for mankind. And that although they never knew Him Here, they will be taught Gospel truths and can choose to accept His Grace. All those who never had a chance to receive the Gospel on Earth have the chance there.
@EphraimLDS in the book of mormons there is racism and women are there to provide babys and do housework. yet they dont get their own planet when they die? screw lds its a load of bull shit. walk into a mormons church everyone is white pretty much except a few phillipinos.
@EphraimLDS So what about 2 Nephi 25:23 ". . . We know that it is by grace that we are saved, AFTER all we can do." this does not sound like Jesus is enough, only AFTER what we DO right? so we must do the Jesus will do right? what must we "do" to earn Jesus then? The Bible is clear there is nothing we can "DO" yet here we read we must "do" something first? If you actually believe that it is Jesus alone then why can't you come to a Chrsitian Church since that what we believe?
lol. My Kind? You don't know me friend. I'm using Logic. It is baiting when your fellows Already believe all Mormons go to hell for not answering their magic question correctly. LDS don't believe anyone will go to Hell for repented sins or if they've never heard of Jesus. It may be different but it is Not Banter. Further, I haven't made any accusations whatsoever other than proving you were never seeking the answers. If you really want answers I can give them to you but not here to be mocked.
@EphraimLDS To repent of a sin you must turn away from it and not do it again, can you say that you have done that? Or are you like every other human on this planet and keep returning to sin? So then we all deserve hell according to what you just said. Lucky if you become born again in Jesus Christ, yes you will sin again but you know that Jesus blood will cover thoughs sins and you will be clean when you face God on Judgment day (we all will face it) and you can enter Heaven clean.
Yes. Men deserve to go to hell for un-repented sin because God is everlastingly righteous, however, as I have stated, Jesus Christ has saved all those who would believe in Him. The LDS and many others follow Jesus Christ. It's very simple. Those who believe in Jesus will never have to suffer the pangs of hell, if they will do His will and keep his commandments. So if that's your standard for who's Christian, I guess Mormons are looking pretty good. Thanks! I hope that clears it up... :)
"if they will do His will and keep his commandments", so, how you doing with that? l don't know about you but I have broken a least some of the commandments just in the last half-hour, so it's a good thing Christ has kept the law perfectly, never sinned, so He can save me, because I can't!
@sonofcohen Two things. The LDS reject the notion that Jesus Christ doesn't demand anything of His people to be ushered into His Kingdom. Christ continually asked His disciples to obey, follow, repent, confess, be baptized, keep covenants, work out their salvation, keep the commandments, have faith, and endure to the end. Saints that did not endure or obey were criticized and condemned. With that in mind, you misunderstand what Nephi is teaching in that passage. Let me explain briefly:
@EphraimLDS "When Nephi spoke of "all we can do," he was not referring to individual perfection on our own, which is impossible in mortality, but rather of being reconciled to Christ by exercising our faith unto repentance and by entering into a covenant with God through baptism to keep his commandments and being faithful to that covenant. When we fall short, we can repent." Paul continually echoes this in his letter. "Godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation" for those who commit sin.
@EphraimLDSHis grace enables us to repent and do good works. Grace is not a free pass to disobey His commandments, ignore His words, and condemn others for their beliefs.Yes, He saved us. The Gospel changes lives. But that change comes only when we submit our will to His; we believe and do what He says; we accept Him by working out our salvation with fear and trembling by enduring to the end in faith. Anything short of that, is not the gospel the ancient Apostles or Jesus Christ Himself taught.
@EphraimLDS we don't believe grace is a free pass to disobay, I find that LDS don't really understand out view very well. But I think Moroni 10:32 supports my opinion that LDS teachers that the grace of God is not for sinners, I would have to become "perfect" before I could ever even receive the grace. It's an impossible gospel. I know you disagree and we could get bogged down in interpretation issues or you could disprove my four points.
@sonofcohen Yeah I'm sure we'll disagree on plenty of points. There may be nothing we can say to disprove each other but maybe I can at least shed light on why we believe what we do. In order to understand so much of what the Bible or the Bom means to us requires not just a reading of the passage but also revelation from God, prayer, and historical context. But don't misunderstand my meaning, we take the scriptures for literal face value, as I'm sure you do. I'll explain how this applies here:
@EphraimLDS I actually think I can disprove the BOM. I think it is falsifiable. Faith claims are never falsifiable but questions about the BOA and the BOM are because they present themselves as historical truths. There is a reason christians are constantly willing to debate top atheist around the world and their views hold up under the toughest of scrutiny but a debate between an LDS scholar and william layne craig will never happen because they wont put their truth claims on the table.
@EphraimLDS Acts 17:11 tells us how to test if something is true, the Bereans showed us how by using Scripture not prayer or feelings. And yes context is very important and if something goes against the Bible like 2 Nephi 25:23 does.
All I am asking my friend is to seek the truth in Jesus Christ, not in a religion but in Christ alone.
First, if you want to know how we interpret a verse you have to understand something about our doctrine. We believe that revelation from God is necessary to reveal the truth He would have us learn..By revelation we have learned that we are not simply creatures, but that we are literal children of a loving Heavenly Father. We believe that we lived with Him before this life and that we will return there. When we return we will continue to repent and grow in knowledge and strength, just like now.
@EphraimLDS If someone makes a revelation that contradicts Gods own testimony of himself then I do not need to fear or listen to that prophet. As I have shown JS was not even qualified to lead a church much alone restore one.
@EphraimLDS If you are going to quote scripture keep it in context read all of 2 Corinthians 7 and understand what Paul is talking about. He is saying that if you just repent with your lips (the world) you are not saved but if you truly repent inside (sorrow) you will be saved for that is a trasforming repentance not just lip service. There are different repentances and God knows the differance so you can use your lips for man but unless it is of sorrow to God...well?
@EphraimLDS So if Jesus said you will be in paradise when you die would you think that is hell? No it is Heaven right? Luke 23:43 the thief (sinner) will be there with Jesus yet what did he do? was he Baptized? did he Obey? what about Repent? yet Jesus said he would be in Paradise? All he did is show faith in Jesus and he was saved. But it must be a true faith not just lip service.
@EphraimLDS "IF they will do His will and keep his commandments" So can you say you have kept His commandments today? if you died right now this second and faced God can you say 100% that you have (remember God knows all about you and even what is in your mind) to hate someone is like murder (1 John 3:15) and looking with lust is adultery (Matthew 5:28) so again how do you and I look on that day?
(repost sorry) Man your tone is downright Christian buddy! And I did answer you. Incase you missed it I said only God is to judge what we are worthy of after we die, not you. Sin leads to hell which is why He sent His only begotten son to save all mankind. Obviously the LDS believe that, which is why I called you out on asking such a baiting, absurd question. Jesus Christ is the only one who can judge as to whether a person is fundamentally Christian, not you or your pastors.
@EphraimLDS Is that clear enough this time? My initial comments concern the videos author not you. He can comment on it if he desires if you don't mind.
@EphraimLDS I don't find his question absurd or baiting. In fact it is straight forward and the fact that you think it is some kind of trap says something. And I must say your kind of response is exactly why I made this video. You make lots of claims and say there are answers but then you just toss out these little red herrings and try to focus the argument on other things. If you have real answers, make a video. Break them down one by one and prove me wrong. Logic and reason > emotional banter!
For example, Caleb, per Oxford Bible Commentary on Ps 82:
Jewish tradition, seen in the Targum and reflected in Jn 10:34-6, interpreted this psalm as the condemnation of the human rulers of Israel, similar to Is. 3:13-16, but v. 7 makes no sense on this interpretation and it is almost universally accepted today that the picture of YHWH's heavenly court (cf. 1 Kings 22:19-22, Job 1:6-12; 2:1-7), similar to the pantheons of other nations, with YHWH presiding as Marduk or El did. (p. 389)
Caleb, you make some valid points but your selection of "simple verses" is poor exegesis, I'm afraid. Some scholars interpret Is. 45:5 as monotheistic statement but others say it's only a statement of Yahweh's incomparability. Similar hyperbolic statements are made regarding polytheistic gods of other ancient Near Eastern religions. Plenty of OT verses mention a plurality of gods because Israel's religion evolved from henotheism to monotheism.
I have never heard a Mormon answer a straight question about Doctrine with a straight answer.
I have seen and heard them make excuses, dodge issues, name call, make huge unsupportable pronouncements, turn the debate in another more comfortable direction and dissemble, but it's hard, almost impossible, to get a straight and simple answer to some of the most important and simplest questions.
It's almost like they don't have the answers and are just parroting the little they do know.
Another two cents: two other things that I have a tough time wrestling with is the whole concept of eternal marriage as well as baptism for the dead. They are romantic ideas (I mean that respectfully) but I do not believe that they agree with what is taught in the Bible, again... thank you!
Thank you for approaching this in a humble matter. There are way too many people who approach mormonism with ignorance and a sense of malice. You brought up some great points that I have thought of myself and completely agree with them. Way to glorify :)
@sonofcohen Anyone ever tell you that you sound a little like George w. bush and some of your features look a little like his? You've made a lot of great points though. thanks for sharing your thoughts.
@IvanDefendingTruth this would be a good example of taking minority verses and translating them in such a way it would render the majority of verses on the subject mute. Some translate this verse to say heavenly beings (angels) but the word is Elohim, the best reading says that he has made man a little lower than God. We can not use Elohim to denote Gods in plural because every other time it is used it is used to denote the singularity of God yet with a plural sense (trinity)
@sonofcohen I would suggest that if Elohim here is referring to "God" we have reached the pinnacle of absurdity in suggesting humans are just "a little lower" than the Creator God! Rather, as the LXX interprets the Psalm, the Elohim here are angels. Angels are thus legitimately called and considered "G/gods."
@IvanDefendingTruth well according to LDS you can become like God so how would that be absurd? Later on we see in Hebrews says they are angels which is a perfectly valid translation as well and would support the LXX reading of the verse. So are we to assume that this means there is a council of Gods and the universe is full of Gods? Since the context is monotheistic and the poem is late in origin that polytheism would not have been in the poets mind.
@sonofcohen That is precisely the problem with the LDS faith. But there is no problem at all with accepting the existence of many gods, for the angels are themselves "gods." The Creator God is described in the Psalms as having a council of divinities around him.
I would suggest considering Larry Hurtado's "Early Christian Devotion and Ancient Jewish Monotheism."
@IvanDefendingTruth it really comes down to how one defines the term because we do know that the term "gods" is used applied to human judges in the OT, however there is a huge difference between them and Yahweh. LDS play semantics with these terms. Does the bible suggest that angels are divine beings? The best reading I can see is The Hebrew text is “You have made him to lack little of God.” Some say this is a reference to man before the fall.
@sonofcohen Yes, but is a mortal human really only a little lower than the infinite God? The LXX interpretation of this psalm takes Elohim as a reference to angels, as does the author of Hebrews. The Best evidence suggests the Elohim here are angelic beings.
@EphraimLDS Easy claims for you to interpret how you think or feel it should be interpreted out of biblical context. Most mormons are pros at self interpretation because they either don't have a real answer for it, or they're seriously mislead individuals.
Well, I don't know who 'we' is.. You presented your video as if it was 'you' who wanted to know. If that's the case It seems like your group doesn't actually want to know because you already have your answers. Like you said, if it doesn't match your criteria, then you don't have to listen. So really the question is, do you only want answers your group will believe.. or do you want information that is historical but that your modern faith doesn't embrace? They are not the same thing.
@EphraimLDS I have my answers because I did the research, I had no dog in the fight I just followed the evidence. And the criteria I used what biblical truths. So essentially what you are asking me to do is get rid of all the evidence, ignore the bible, so that I might be able to believe JS. And I just can't do that. I read both sides of the argument before I made my decision.
@sonofcohen It's a little deceptive to say you're looking for answers when you weren't and that's my point. Unfortunately, I and many others have also done "the research" to come to the conclusion that your church is not the church Christ established but is simply a revision recreation of a corrupted revision. So many philosophies in Evangelism are constructs and were not believed by the ancients. That is a biblical truth. Just don't assume you're the only one who has done their research.
@EphraimLDS oh, and it isn't deceptive at all. we are constantly asking questions that LDS members don't want to or can't answer. we want answers, you guys just dont have them.
@anonazero Who's we?? How many of "we"? What are you talking about?? Of course LDS have answers. Many millions have found verifiable answers. Maybe it's you who doesn't have answers which is why you broad stroke every single LDS as having no answers. That's what's deceptive! You have no idea what you're saying. I myself have found answers to numerous anti Mormon arguments and so can you. But you won't believe them anyways so why do you care? LDS are all deceived and you're saved, so move on.
@EphraimLDS we = christians that talk to mormons, quantity = all of us
okay, since you have answers i'll give you the benefit of a doubt. here's a very simple yes or no question that every single bible believing christian can answer without a moment's hesitation.
do you personally deserve to go to hell and be punished forever for your sin against God?
p.s. you are deceived and i am saved, therefore, i do care and while i will move on it wont be leaving truth in my wake.
@anonazero First of all that's a leading question filled with all sorts of false presumptions. Not every single "bible believing Christian" believes what you believe sir. That's a gross misrepresentation. Secondly, All men will be judged fairly and righteously on judgment day. We leave the judgment of who goes to hell to God. Are you greater in judgment than He? I am no more deceived than I can read a history book and misread what it states. Perhaps you should look into your own history.
@EphraimLDS actually its a straight question that if someone can't answer they just aren't a christian.
perhaps you should read the bible. its the book you talk about but never look at. about 75% of it was copied and/changed in to your book of mormon BTW.
@anonazero More loving false statements.lol Just like Jesus, huh? Believe me, I read it constantly. Please tell me where it says if someone doesn't answer your arbitrary loaded question the way you want it, they're not Christian? Don't even get me started on the things taught in the bible you don't believe in. Next time try reading some scholastic literature on what the bible actually teaches instead of regurgitating mantras or ignorant claims. Never mind, you don't need to read, you're saved.
i give you the benefit of the doubt and ask you a simple question
you tell me my question (which is gospel 101) isn't fair and refuse to answer question
so, what you were saying to that other guy is now rendered null and void because you've only given his claim credibility by refusing to answer a simple straight forward question.
here's a test: hey real christians, do you deserve to go to hell and be punished forever for your sin against God?
@EphraimLDS do you really think this type of talk adds to the discussion at all? It simply proves my point. I believe my points were fair, clear, and concise and I tried to avoid the very type of silly broad accusations that you are making. It really is just showing how far the LDS will go to turn the table on those who challenge their faith.
This is great bro! Very well spoken. We have a hard time getting missionaries to come back to us when we bring these points up. Both my roommate and I seem to have been blacklisted... Any tips or suggestions?
@FreshDonuts I always ask to meet again because I want to give them time to think about it and correct me where I am wrong or misunderstand. That way they have a chance to give a rebuttal, however, I have yet to have them actually come back with answers they usually just want to learn more.
The time of which he made up the book of mormon, was a time where many religions were coming about so it was easy just to make up a religion. Also, the bible says that you can't baptize people when they are dead, and this is what mormons do. So according to this idea, i could drink, sleep around, and do drugs all my life and that's ok cause someone can baptize for the dead for me and so i would just be sucked up out of hell? heaven and hell are for eternity.. anyways thanks for posting this vid!
k11251 2 weeks ago
Mormons believe in the bible as well as the book or mormon, and the book of mormon contradicts several things in the bible. Joseph Smith said that in order to get into heaven you have to have at least three wives. Joseph also used a method of the occult in order to translate from the 'golden plates' and he used that method when he was younge to 'find treasure' for people but people were pissed at him because he was decieving and didn't find the treasure for them.
k11251 2 weeks ago
I was taught and read anti-Mormon literature in high school. I had to mull over the issue until I did what we all have to do to find the truth. That is, go to the one source of all truth. In other words we have to read the scriptures and pray with real intent to find if they are true. I have read the Book of Mormon, I prayed about it and I know that it is true. I know that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the true church of Christ.
schnaglywagon11 1 month ago
@schnaglywagon11 You obviously didn't watch the end of the video because you did exactly what I said you would do. I called it 100% I've read it, god told me it was a lie. So one of us is wrong.... if you want to believe a prophet who had many wives when the bible says a leader can only have one, then you know which one of us is biblical and which one isn't
sonofcohen 4 weeks ago
There is little I can do to convince you. All I can say is I know that it is true. I know that if you read the Book of Mormon and pray with a sincere heart, with real intent, you will know that it is true. The Holy Ghost will reveal the truth to you if you are prepared to receive it.
The missionaries can teach you all of this.
p.s.-Isaiah 12: 2. Like many versus in Isaiah, it's difficult to grasp.
"JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation." Who is our Savior?
schnaglywagon11 1 month ago
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schnaglywagon11 1 month ago
@schnaglywagon11I would like to give the definition for polytheism real quick since you seem to have your own idea of what it means, Wiakpedia says, Polytheism is a type of theism. Within theism, it contrasts with monotheism, the belief in a singular God. Polytheists do not always worship all the gods equally, but can be Henotheists, specializing in the worship of one particular deity. Any dictionary will contradict what you stated.
sonofcohen 1 month ago
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schnaglywagon11 1 month ago
@schnaglywagon11 thanks for the response however, you say Mormons are monotheistic the you say there are other Gods. Just because you believe there is only one god for this planet does not make you monotheistic, it is exactly the opposite. monotheism is one God for all planets. I have read and though and what I read in Deut. says that God knows of no other Gods, in heaven above or earth below, he knows not one. So how does JS know something that Gods doesnt?
sonofcohen 1 month ago
Mormon's are monotheists. We only have one God. God made a plan for us and provided a way for us to progress through his son Jesus Christ(1 John 4:15). God also gave us a means through which we can better understand His will concerning us. Through the Holy Ghost we receive guidance and personal revelation. Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are not gods, they are members of the god head.
schnaglywagon11 1 month ago
@schnaglywagon11 Mormons may only pray to one god but they teach that Jehovah was once a man and there was a council of gods before him and that Jesus became a god, and that good mormons will be gods.... progression to godhood is not found in the Bible or BoM and its false...
ssuperbill2 1 month ago
@ssuperbill2 which as a Bible believing Christian I must reject the teachings of the LDS faith. The Bible warns us that false prophets will come and teach another gospel and I'm at least glad that you recognize the Bible does NOT teach any of this, it actually teaches the very opposite.
sonofcohen 1 month ago
Thank you for this. It has given me some new material to look into and to aid in discussions with the missionaries when they come to my door. =D
IamASheep 1 month ago
I can answer more question of you if you reply me back. But I going to answer your first question. Is true is only one God but do you remember Jesus say he and his father and the holy spirit one and the same? So is that mean he and his father is Two God or One God? So tell me one or Two? I say one because they are the same. Joseph Smith not saying here is different god at all. I also can say here is Two god the son and the Father lol. He saying father to the son and the son to the father.
LifetreeKolobGnolaum 1 month ago
@LifetreeKolobGnolaum I know you think you are asking a really good question but do you have any idea how protestants have answered that question in the past? Do you think we have never read those verses and asked those questions? I'm just curious as to whether or not you have any idea how Christians understand the trinity or if you just know what your church has told you. We believe one God in three persons, they are not just one in purpose because that is 3 Gods
sonofcohen 1 month ago
@sonofcohen The church didn't tell me. I learn it from the Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price.
LifetreeKolobGnolaum 1 month ago
@LifetreeKolobGnolaum if there are 3 gods but one in purpose that goes against the monotheistic teachings of scripture. Jesus is called YWHA the name only given to God so we come to understand that God is one being with three consciousness. I have a body a mind and a soul but there is just one me JS rejects that idea. You didn't really answer the question you just asked one. one I'm really curious about is how JS could have many wives which is not allowed for leadership
sonofcohen 1 month ago
@sonofcohen Is not against the monotheistic teachings here is Three gods because they also are one. As you say 3 gods in one purpose one in the other. They are one is just like a Grape. Take a Grape and look you see little grape things they have space on each other like father, son and spirit but they are one. JS didn't rejects or you mess understand. The Father in the Son the son in the father. Jesus in US so we in Jesus also. Leadership come from God as it given to man.
LifetreeKolobGnolaum 1 month ago
@LifetreeKolobGnolaum they are not just one in purpose they are one in essence. They are the same deity. Do you believe that there is more than one God?
sonofcohen 1 month ago
@sonofcohen No. Just one.
LifetreeKolobGnolaum 1 month ago
@sonofcohen No. Just one. Is true they are one essence and same deity because they one in the other. I also can say they are two person. What about this? Tell me does Jesus know when is the end of time of his second coming will be? But he say only the father? What about this? The Son can't do anything without the father, if the son can't see what the father do the Son can't do it also. So, what Jesus talking to the father or himself? Why he call himself the son of man? What that mean
LifetreeKolobGnolaum 1 month ago
@LifetreeKolobGnolaum you ask a lot of questions and either your English isn't very good or your grammar is bad. If you agree, as I do, that there is only one God and that Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and God the father are all the same God, then you and I agree. However, you would not agree with Joseph Smith. What if I could show you that him and man man other of the church prophets said there were literally thousands of Gods and that our God is just one for this planet.
sonofcohen 1 month ago
@sonofcohen Those are not a question, is a answer. Is answer of your question. And I have say before those Gods are the same. Like a Grape of the tree. I answer your question or give the question of the answer. Tell me where the Jesus, father and holy spirit come from? If the only one God does exist but where he come from in the beginning. He say he really here in the beginning he a really exist. How can that be?My answer is where he come from? Jesus come form Father but Father from?
LifetreeKolobGnolaum 1 month ago
@LifetreeKolobGnolaum John 1:1 and Colossians 1:16-17 have your answers. Jesus only came from the father in the flesh they are co-eternal and co existetant. What about my question regarding JS and his many wives?
sonofcohen 1 month ago
@sonofcohen Dude is very easy, I have answer your question already. How can you still don't understand? Have I not tell you the eternal father, have I not tell you before existent? Have I not tell you why JS have so many wives? Why you still ask the same question is already answered? I tell you before are they not in the same flash as you come from your mother and your father. One with out beginning and one with out the end? JS only have one Wife.Why you don't ask Abraham many wives?
LifetreeKolobGnolaum 1 month ago
@LifetreeKolobGnolaum you've answered those already? Perhaps it's because I can barely understand your broken English, half of what you say makes no sense. JS only had one wife? You sure about that? All LDS scholars disagree...
sonofcohen 1 month ago
@sonofcohen And verily, verily, I say unto you, that whatsoever you seal on earth shall be sealed in heaven; and whatsoever you bind on earth, in my name and by my word, saith the Lord, it shall be eternally bound in the heavens; and whosesoever sins you remit on earth shall be remitted eternally in the heavens; and whosesoever sins you retain on earth shall be retained in heaven.
LifetreeKolobGnolaum 1 month ago
@LifetreeKolobGnolaum and what does that have to do with the topic at all?
sonofcohen 1 month ago
@LifetreeKolobGnolaum Please proofread your posts before you post them.
Chungover 1 month ago
good response, way to address the argument.
sonofcohen 1 month ago
@Chungover ?
LifetreeKolobGnolaum 1 month ago
Excellent video, keep up the good work.
1stcorinthians1vrs18 3 months ago
Again, no doubt we disagree but thank you for being cordial. These ideas don't come without some very meaty historical evidences both from biblical and ancient documents. You can read them and know these truths for yourself. Even with all the evidence we don't rely on ancient documents, or even the Bible, Bom,or scholarly research for our doctrine. We rely on direct revelation from God for truth, just as all His people ever did. If you still want to discuss your 4 points we can do so in a PM.
EphraimLDS 3 months ago
@EphraimLDS I rely on revelation from God as well and it his very revelation that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that that JS was not a prophet. There is no meaty historical evidence for the BOM the church won't even name a location for those events. I find that FAIR and most LDS will cling to anything that might even resemble some sort of evidence. If you have answers that prove me wrong, by all means take the time, put a video together and help out your fellow LDS.
sonofcohen 3 months ago
@EphraimLDS Ephriam, what you say is what the Muslims will say, and the Jehovas Witnesses. All modern-day revelation MUST CONFORM to the Bible, which is the ancient-day revelation...God doesn't change !
Galatians 1:8
though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Dadutta 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@EphraimLDS I just left the church after being an always active, life long, mission serving, member for 30 years +. I wanted to believe it was true also. The problem is, you can prove it false 10 different ways now that I opened my eyes. You can see some of those ways if you watch the video my family made after leaving. it is posted at the top of PerfectTheSaints org Or you can search for it on YouTube. It is called "Why Our Family Left the Mormon Church"
ptyler3 1 month ago
Moroni and Paul are correct. In Christ we are perfected, even joint heirs, but He requires that we obey God's laws including repentance here and after we die. Our works will be judged. Perfection is promised to all who choose it by following him. Grace is eternal, therefore It's not When it's applicable, but How. We receive His eternal sacrifice in the way He has outlined; by understanding, accepting, and living His gospel. It is the same for all mankind even those who have perished without it.
EphraimLDS 3 months ago
@EphraimLDS "Our works will be judged" not before we are saved and not for salvation. Works will not keep us from or earn us salvation my friend it is by Grace through our true Faith in Jesus Christ (Ephesians 2:8) alone that will save us.
Yes we must Repent but repent is just to change or turn around. It is that simple trust Jesus and change your life to have a realtionship with Jesus today and you will be saved. No Rules or Works just faith in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour!
Exodus314IAM 2 months ago
So with Grace in mind, the LDS understand that Christ's Grace is sufficient for all mankind, both to those who are living and dead who ever lived. We believe that His grace was just as sufficient for those who lived righteously on this Earth before He came on Earth to atone for mankind. And that although they never knew Him Here, they will be taught Gospel truths and can choose to accept His Grace. All those who never had a chance to receive the Gospel on Earth have the chance there.
EphraimLDS 3 months ago
@EphraimLDS in the book of mormons there is racism and women are there to provide babys and do housework. yet they dont get their own planet when they die? screw lds its a load of bull shit. walk into a mormons church everyone is white pretty much except a few phillipinos.
brycemaria25 2 months ago
@EphraimLDS Salvation is through faith alone. How can you baptize the dead without their personal declaration to follow Jesus Christ?
Chungover 2 months ago
@EphraimLDS So what about 2 Nephi 25:23 ". . . We know that it is by grace that we are saved, AFTER all we can do." this does not sound like Jesus is enough, only AFTER what we DO right? so we must do the Jesus will do right? what must we "do" to earn Jesus then? The Bible is clear there is nothing we can "DO" yet here we read we must "do" something first? If you actually believe that it is Jesus alone then why can't you come to a Chrsitian Church since that what we believe?
Exodus314IAM 2 months ago
lol. My Kind? You don't know me friend. I'm using Logic. It is baiting when your fellows Already believe all Mormons go to hell for not answering their magic question correctly. LDS don't believe anyone will go to Hell for repented sins or if they've never heard of Jesus. It may be different but it is Not Banter. Further, I haven't made any accusations whatsoever other than proving you were never seeking the answers. If you really want answers I can give them to you but not here to be mocked.
EphraimLDS 3 months ago
@EphraimLDS To repent of a sin you must turn away from it and not do it again, can you say that you have done that? Or are you like every other human on this planet and keep returning to sin? So then we all deserve hell according to what you just said. Lucky if you become born again in Jesus Christ, yes you will sin again but you know that Jesus blood will cover thoughs sins and you will be clean when you face God on Judgment day (we all will face it) and you can enter Heaven clean.
Exodus314IAM 2 months ago
Yes. Men deserve to go to hell for un-repented sin because God is everlastingly righteous, however, as I have stated, Jesus Christ has saved all those who would believe in Him. The LDS and many others follow Jesus Christ. It's very simple. Those who believe in Jesus will never have to suffer the pangs of hell, if they will do His will and keep his commandments. So if that's your standard for who's Christian, I guess Mormons are looking pretty good. Thanks! I hope that clears it up... :)
EphraimLDS 3 months ago
@EphraimLDS
"if they will do His will and keep his commandments", so, how you doing with that? l don't know about you but I have broken a least some of the commandments just in the last half-hour, so it's a good thing Christ has kept the law perfectly, never sinned, so He can save me, because I can't!
keithallencox 3 months ago
@EphraimLDS when is the grace of Jesus applied, before or after "all you can do"?
sonofcohen 3 months ago
@sonofcohen Two things. The LDS reject the notion that Jesus Christ doesn't demand anything of His people to be ushered into His Kingdom. Christ continually asked His disciples to obey, follow, repent, confess, be baptized, keep covenants, work out their salvation, keep the commandments, have faith, and endure to the end. Saints that did not endure or obey were criticized and condemned. With that in mind, you misunderstand what Nephi is teaching in that passage. Let me explain briefly:
EphraimLDS 3 months ago
@EphraimLDS "When Nephi spoke of "all we can do," he was not referring to individual perfection on our own, which is impossible in mortality, but rather of being reconciled to Christ by exercising our faith unto repentance and by entering into a covenant with God through baptism to keep his commandments and being faithful to that covenant. When we fall short, we can repent." Paul continually echoes this in his letter. "Godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation" for those who commit sin.
EphraimLDS 3 months ago
@EphraimLDSHis grace enables us to repent and do good works. Grace is not a free pass to disobey His commandments, ignore His words, and condemn others for their beliefs.Yes, He saved us. The Gospel changes lives. But that change comes only when we submit our will to His; we believe and do what He says; we accept Him by working out our salvation with fear and trembling by enduring to the end in faith. Anything short of that, is not the gospel the ancient Apostles or Jesus Christ Himself taught.
EphraimLDS 3 months ago
@EphraimLDS we don't believe grace is a free pass to disobay, I find that LDS don't really understand out view very well. But I think Moroni 10:32 supports my opinion that LDS teachers that the grace of God is not for sinners, I would have to become "perfect" before I could ever even receive the grace. It's an impossible gospel. I know you disagree and we could get bogged down in interpretation issues or you could disprove my four points.
sonofcohen 3 months ago
@sonofcohen Yeah I'm sure we'll disagree on plenty of points. There may be nothing we can say to disprove each other but maybe I can at least shed light on why we believe what we do. In order to understand so much of what the Bible or the Bom means to us requires not just a reading of the passage but also revelation from God, prayer, and historical context. But don't misunderstand my meaning, we take the scriptures for literal face value, as I'm sure you do. I'll explain how this applies here:
EphraimLDS 3 months ago
@EphraimLDS I actually think I can disprove the BOM. I think it is falsifiable. Faith claims are never falsifiable but questions about the BOA and the BOM are because they present themselves as historical truths. There is a reason christians are constantly willing to debate top atheist around the world and their views hold up under the toughest of scrutiny but a debate between an LDS scholar and william layne craig will never happen because they wont put their truth claims on the table.
sonofcohen 3 months ago
@EphraimLDS Acts 17:11 tells us how to test if something is true, the Bereans showed us how by using Scripture not prayer or feelings. And yes context is very important and if something goes against the Bible like 2 Nephi 25:23 does.
All I am asking my friend is to seek the truth in Jesus Christ, not in a religion but in Christ alone.
Exodus314IAM 2 months ago
First, if you want to know how we interpret a verse you have to understand something about our doctrine. We believe that revelation from God is necessary to reveal the truth He would have us learn..By revelation we have learned that we are not simply creatures, but that we are literal children of a loving Heavenly Father. We believe that we lived with Him before this life and that we will return there. When we return we will continue to repent and grow in knowledge and strength, just like now.
EphraimLDS 3 months ago
@EphraimLDS If someone makes a revelation that contradicts Gods own testimony of himself then I do not need to fear or listen to that prophet. As I have shown JS was not even qualified to lead a church much alone restore one.
sonofcohen 3 months ago
@EphraimLDS If you are going to quote scripture keep it in context read all of 2 Corinthians 7 and understand what Paul is talking about. He is saying that if you just repent with your lips (the world) you are not saved but if you truly repent inside (sorrow) you will be saved for that is a trasforming repentance not just lip service. There are different repentances and God knows the differance so you can use your lips for man but unless it is of sorrow to God...well?
Exodus314IAM 2 months ago
@EphraimLDS So if Jesus said you will be in paradise when you die would you think that is hell? No it is Heaven right? Luke 23:43 the thief (sinner) will be there with Jesus yet what did he do? was he Baptized? did he Obey? what about Repent? yet Jesus said he would be in Paradise? All he did is show faith in Jesus and he was saved. But it must be a true faith not just lip service.
Seek the truth my friend!
Exodus314IAM 2 months ago
@EphraimLDS "IF they will do His will and keep his commandments" So can you say you have kept His commandments today? if you died right now this second and faced God can you say 100% that you have (remember God knows all about you and even what is in your mind) to hate someone is like murder (1 John 3:15) and looking with lust is adultery (Matthew 5:28) so again how do you and I look on that day?
Exodus314IAM 2 months ago
(repost sorry) Man your tone is downright Christian buddy! And I did answer you. Incase you missed it I said only God is to judge what we are worthy of after we die, not you. Sin leads to hell which is why He sent His only begotten son to save all mankind. Obviously the LDS believe that, which is why I called you out on asking such a baiting, absurd question. Jesus Christ is the only one who can judge as to whether a person is fundamentally Christian, not you or your pastors.
EphraimLDS 3 months ago
@EphraimLDS Is that clear enough this time? My initial comments concern the videos author not you. He can comment on it if he desires if you don't mind.
EphraimLDS 3 months ago
@EphraimLDS I don't find his question absurd or baiting. In fact it is straight forward and the fact that you think it is some kind of trap says something. And I must say your kind of response is exactly why I made this video. You make lots of claims and say there are answers but then you just toss out these little red herrings and try to focus the argument on other things. If you have real answers, make a video. Break them down one by one and prove me wrong. Logic and reason > emotional banter!
sonofcohen 3 months ago
For example, Caleb, per Oxford Bible Commentary on Ps 82:
Jewish tradition, seen in the Targum and reflected in Jn 10:34-6, interpreted this psalm as the condemnation of the human rulers of Israel, similar to Is. 3:13-16, but v. 7 makes no sense on this interpretation and it is almost universally accepted today that the picture of YHWH's heavenly court (cf. 1 Kings 22:19-22, Job 1:6-12; 2:1-7), similar to the pantheons of other nations, with YHWH presiding as Marduk or El did. (p. 389)
cheers!
PoderdelChino 3 months ago
Caleb, you make some valid points but your selection of "simple verses" is poor exegesis, I'm afraid. Some scholars interpret Is. 45:5 as monotheistic statement but others say it's only a statement of Yahweh's incomparability. Similar hyperbolic statements are made regarding polytheistic gods of other ancient Near Eastern religions. Plenty of OT verses mention a plurality of gods because Israel's religion evolved from henotheism to monotheism.
PoderdelChino 3 months ago
I have never heard a Mormon answer a straight question about Doctrine with a straight answer.
I have seen and heard them make excuses, dodge issues, name call, make huge unsupportable pronouncements, turn the debate in another more comfortable direction and dissemble, but it's hard, almost impossible, to get a straight and simple answer to some of the most important and simplest questions.
It's almost like they don't have the answers and are just parroting the little they do know.
Odd behavior.
hammerogod 3 months ago
This is a great Vid bro! I like the way you presented that.
soulja4hova 3 months ago
Another two cents: two other things that I have a tough time wrestling with is the whole concept of eternal marriage as well as baptism for the dead. They are romantic ideas (I mean that respectfully) but I do not believe that they agree with what is taught in the Bible, again... thank you!
RyanGreenMusic 3 months ago
Thank you for approaching this in a humble matter. There are way too many people who approach mormonism with ignorance and a sense of malice. You brought up some great points that I have thought of myself and completely agree with them. Way to glorify :)
RyanGreenMusic 3 months ago
@sonofcohen Anyone ever tell you that you sound a little like George w. bush and some of your features look a little like his? You've made a lot of great points though. thanks for sharing your thoughts.
3Deditor 3 months ago
@3Deditor haha, we'll I was born in Texas.....
sonofcohen 3 months ago
The Bible clear teaches many times over, in particular, the Psalms, that there are many G/gods, of which are angels are a category.
IvanDefendingTruth 3 months ago
@IvanDefendingTruth
specifically ?
Debowmusic 3 months ago
@Debowmusic Psalm 8:5
IvanDefendingTruth 3 months ago
@IvanDefendingTruth this would be a good example of taking minority verses and translating them in such a way it would render the majority of verses on the subject mute. Some translate this verse to say heavenly beings (angels) but the word is Elohim, the best reading says that he has made man a little lower than God. We can not use Elohim to denote Gods in plural because every other time it is used it is used to denote the singularity of God yet with a plural sense (trinity)
sonofcohen 3 months ago
@sonofcohen I would suggest that if Elohim here is referring to "God" we have reached the pinnacle of absurdity in suggesting humans are just "a little lower" than the Creator God! Rather, as the LXX interprets the Psalm, the Elohim here are angels. Angels are thus legitimately called and considered "G/gods."
IvanDefendingTruth 3 months ago
@IvanDefendingTruth well according to LDS you can become like God so how would that be absurd? Later on we see in Hebrews says they are angels which is a perfectly valid translation as well and would support the LXX reading of the verse. So are we to assume that this means there is a council of Gods and the universe is full of Gods? Since the context is monotheistic and the poem is late in origin that polytheism would not have been in the poets mind.
sonofcohen 3 months ago
@sonofcohen That is precisely the problem with the LDS faith. But there is no problem at all with accepting the existence of many gods, for the angels are themselves "gods." The Creator God is described in the Psalms as having a council of divinities around him.
I would suggest considering Larry Hurtado's "Early Christian Devotion and Ancient Jewish Monotheism."
IvanDefendingTruth 3 months ago
@IvanDefendingTruth it really comes down to how one defines the term because we do know that the term "gods" is used applied to human judges in the OT, however there is a huge difference between them and Yahweh. LDS play semantics with these terms. Does the bible suggest that angels are divine beings? The best reading I can see is The Hebrew text is “You have made him to lack little of God.” Some say this is a reference to man before the fall.
sonofcohen 3 months ago
@sonofcohen Yes, but is a mortal human really only a little lower than the infinite God? The LXX interpretation of this psalm takes Elohim as a reference to angels, as does the author of Hebrews. The Best evidence suggests the Elohim here are angelic beings.
IvanDefendingTruth 3 months ago
@sonofcohen
ah , thanks . I was just about to hit enter when I saw this . Much more sense than what I was typing out lol.
Debowmusic 3 months ago
These are all really easy claims to answer. You can message me if you want to know.
EphraimLDS 3 months ago
@EphraimLDS Easy claims for you to interpret how you think or feel it should be interpreted out of biblical context. Most mormons are pros at self interpretation because they either don't have a real answer for it, or they're seriously mislead individuals.
3Deditor 3 months ago
@3Deditor uh huh.
EphraimLDS 3 months ago
@EphraimLDS
Then answer them.
Point by point.
No need to PM me...make it Public.
hammerogod 3 months ago
@hammerogod It is public. You just haven't stumbled upon it hammer.
EphraimLDS 3 months ago
@EphraimLDS
If you have posted answers then you should be grateful for the people who would like to read and address them.
So stumble me to the location of your point by point answers.
hammerogod 3 months ago
@EphraimLDS there are answers to everything but we are looking for good answers not just justifications. I have yet to hear good answers.
sonofcohen 3 months ago
Well, I don't know who 'we' is.. You presented your video as if it was 'you' who wanted to know. If that's the case It seems like your group doesn't actually want to know because you already have your answers. Like you said, if it doesn't match your criteria, then you don't have to listen. So really the question is, do you only want answers your group will believe.. or do you want information that is historical but that your modern faith doesn't embrace? They are not the same thing.
EphraimLDS 3 months ago
@EphraimLDS I have my answers because I did the research, I had no dog in the fight I just followed the evidence. And the criteria I used what biblical truths. So essentially what you are asking me to do is get rid of all the evidence, ignore the bible, so that I might be able to believe JS. And I just can't do that. I read both sides of the argument before I made my decision.
sonofcohen 3 months ago
@sonofcohen It's a little deceptive to say you're looking for answers when you weren't and that's my point. Unfortunately, I and many others have also done "the research" to come to the conclusion that your church is not the church Christ established but is simply a revision recreation of a corrupted revision. So many philosophies in Evangelism are constructs and were not believed by the ancients. That is a biblical truth. Just don't assume you're the only one who has done their research.
EphraimLDS 3 months ago
@EphraimLDS the man found his answer in Christ.
anonazero 3 months ago
Good. So have I.
EphraimLDS 3 months ago
@EphraimLDS oh, and it isn't deceptive at all. we are constantly asking questions that LDS members don't want to or can't answer. we want answers, you guys just dont have them.
anonazero 3 months ago
@anonazero Who's we?? How many of "we"? What are you talking about?? Of course LDS have answers. Many millions have found verifiable answers. Maybe it's you who doesn't have answers which is why you broad stroke every single LDS as having no answers. That's what's deceptive! You have no idea what you're saying. I myself have found answers to numerous anti Mormon arguments and so can you. But you won't believe them anyways so why do you care? LDS are all deceived and you're saved, so move on.
EphraimLDS 3 months ago
@EphraimLDS we = christians that talk to mormons, quantity = all of us
okay, since you have answers i'll give you the benefit of a doubt. here's a very simple yes or no question that every single bible believing christian can answer without a moment's hesitation.
do you personally deserve to go to hell and be punished forever for your sin against God?
p.s. you are deceived and i am saved, therefore, i do care and while i will move on it wont be leaving truth in my wake.
anonazero 3 months ago
@anonazero First of all that's a leading question filled with all sorts of false presumptions. Not every single "bible believing Christian" believes what you believe sir. That's a gross misrepresentation. Secondly, All men will be judged fairly and righteously on judgment day. We leave the judgment of who goes to hell to God. Are you greater in judgment than He? I am no more deceived than I can read a history book and misread what it states. Perhaps you should look into your own history.
EphraimLDS 3 months ago
@EphraimLDS actually its a straight question that if someone can't answer they just aren't a christian.
perhaps you should read the bible. its the book you talk about but never look at. about 75% of it was copied and/changed in to your book of mormon BTW.
anonazero 3 months ago
@anonazero More loving false statements.lol Just like Jesus, huh? Believe me, I read it constantly. Please tell me where it says if someone doesn't answer your arbitrary loaded question the way you want it, they're not Christian? Don't even get me started on the things taught in the bible you don't believe in. Next time try reading some scholastic literature on what the bible actually teaches instead of regurgitating mantras or ignorant claims. Never mind, you don't need to read, you're saved.
EphraimLDS 3 months ago
@EphraimLDS so to recap:
you claim to have answers
i give you the benefit of the doubt and ask you a simple question
you tell me my question (which is gospel 101) isn't fair and refuse to answer question
so, what you were saying to that other guy is now rendered null and void because you've only given his claim credibility by refusing to answer a simple straight forward question.
here's a test: hey real christians, do you deserve to go to hell and be punished forever for your sin against God?
anonazero 3 months ago
@EphraimLDS secondly, i believe the bible cover to maps. thirdly, i'm not trying to trip you up at all.
finally, the question was not arbitrary. it is fundamental to what it means to be a christian.
anonazero 3 months ago
@EphraimLDS do you really think this type of talk adds to the discussion at all? It simply proves my point. I believe my points were fair, clear, and concise and I tried to avoid the very type of silly broad accusations that you are making. It really is just showing how far the LDS will go to turn the table on those who challenge their faith.
sonofcohen 3 months ago
This is great bro! Very well spoken. We have a hard time getting missionaries to come back to us when we bring these points up. Both my roommate and I seem to have been blacklisted... Any tips or suggestions?
FreshDonuts 3 months ago
@FreshDonuts I always ask to meet again because I want to give them time to think about it and correct me where I am wrong or misunderstand. That way they have a chance to give a rebuttal, however, I have yet to have them actually come back with answers they usually just want to learn more.
sonofcohen 3 months ago