Igor Stravinsky: Agon (1/2)

[MasterOfDisguise116]

its sad that when people ask me my favorite artist and i reply with "stravinsky", people look at me and ask "Who is that? Is he related to Ke$ha?" ... Stupid hip hop..

[Machinegunhalligan]

Finally, serialism you want to listen to.

[callmeBe]

@Machinegunhalligan Please, Stravinsky uses a serial row in limited portions of the work, and they are motivic in nature and help drive the development only in specific passages. That is simply it. Never in a thousand years should you really refer to this work as something truely serial in nature. But, happy listening, and very glad you like this work! (I do too).

[dididcg]

What is this recording?

[musoderelict]

Not serial. Just elements of it incorporated into the work. For truly serial, go to his Movements for piano & orchestra, or Requiem Canticles.

[DrMarkAlburger]

My favorite version of this great work -- thanks!

And, for the record, the scoring is for

3 flutes, 2 oboes, English horn, 2 clarinets, bass clarinet, 2 bassoons, contrabassoon, 4 horns, 4 trumpets, 2 tenor trombones, bass trombone, harp, mandolin, piano, timpani, 3 tom-toms (or high timpani), xylophone, castanets, and strings (first and second violins, violas, cellos, basses)

[comman193]

JEBAĆ RUSKICH!!

[comman193]

LEGIA WARSZAWA MISTRZ!!!!!!

[petezilla]

Wow, great discussions on this page! My two cents about the 'sameness' of twelve-tone/serial music: Even though I haven't yet totally acclimated my ears yet, I think that the difference between composers in this style must be at least as diverse as it was during the tonal eras of Baroque, Classical and Romantic music - The differences are always beyond the 'language'

Stravinsky makes it easy here, though : )

[FenderRhodesService]

I really like this piece more and more. It wasnt my favourite a few years ago , in the end S. aesthetics and brainweight shine through everything.

[FenderRhodesService]

I like harps and harpsichords.

[peppersax]

My favorite Modern composer of all time. Way ahead of his time. Like Coltrane, maybe someone will get close to his genius in another 100 years or so. I seriously doubt it:)

[audiorium]

This is one of my all time favorite pieces of his. Undeniably Stravinsky. Always amazing how he can draw from the past and project the future at the same time.

[Wcburg1]

OMG i love that little phrase that repeats, 0:14-0:19...so beautiful, makes me almost cry every time i hear it, and now i want the score to it

stravinsky is such a damn genius...

[petezilla]

This is the Robert Craft version

[occdav]

which is recording is this? seems a bit faster than I'm used to hearing it. sounds great!

[getupmorning]

which orchestra/conductor is this?

[Varese52]

It is true that those who used total serialism in the 50s and 60s tended to produce similar sounding work, but this can hardly be said of the music of Schoenberg, Berg or Webern, each of whom had a distinct style and approach to that method of composition.

[rjr1967]

I love this music - but my first encounter with it was in the two-piano version (with the left foot playing castanets!). Ever since I've longed to hear an orchestral performance that matches the feeling of tension and combat that a piano duet evokes.

[druckmanmusic]

Great performance! Who's playing?

[japanesesweet]

Very tight performance unlike the sleepy one I heard at the Proms last year.

This is also a great ballet score-he leaves room for the chorography...it's not a criticism of the piece in any way but in some ways there`s an element missing until you've seen it on the stage.

[dchiapello]

@japanesesweet That's most likely because Stravinsky and Balanchine worked alongside each other creating the work. IS did not deliver a score to GB to choreograph.

[estudiomonteverdi]

who's performing ? work of genius - one of the greatest works of the 21st century, IMO

[mike58greenberg]

many of the great scientists... i mean, wouldn't somebody eventually have come up with these breakthroughs, discoveries, inventions? but if Stravinsky had never created his music, then to be sure it would never--not in a million years--have been heard. n'est-ce pas?

[dalecampbl7]

@mike58greenberg i find the scientist v. musician analogy to be kind of inappropriate...sure someone else would've come up with E = mc^2 but the problem is, most people today even if they know how to use it cannot on their own derive it or understand it to the point that Einstein did...while it's true Agon or Rite of Spring would not have existed but for Stravinsky's birth, I would argue that someone else would've come along and maybe composed something similiar in spirit or sound

[dalecampbl7]

i just want to add i'm grateful for Einstein and Stravinsky

[MrAkihiros]

Curiously, there are parts of 'Symphony in 3 movt's' that sound totally atonal.

[msozcan]

Is this a serial piece? It does not sound anything like serial pieces by Webern, Boulez, etc. Was Stravinsky "cheating"?

[jacqueslaumone]

@msozcan Not all of Agon is serial, and not all the serial sections are twelve-tone music: Stravinsky also used rows of six notes, staying close to tonality. But listen to the "Bransle de Poitou", after 45sec in the second video - that's strict dodecaphony, and with real Webern influence I think.

[MrAkihiros]

@jacqueslaumone Thanks for your very informative post.

[rumpwrestler]

I remember seeing AGON, NYC Ballet in San Francisco, first time for AGON there. Utterly amazing. Blew my mind, eyes and ears. INCREDIBLE

[DarthCormac]

I just saw Agon at the NYC Ballet last Saturday. If it's ever being performed near you, GO SEE IT. The visual aspect of it adds so much more beauty to the overall experience. I merely 'liked' this ballet before last Saturday; however, after seeing it performed live I'm practically obsessed with it and when I listen I'm breathless.

I was watching my first ballet performance ever, so maybe it just had that much more of an impact on me, but this every aspect of this ballet is just so haunting...

[jjoegarr]

stravinsky must have invented polyphony in a previous life. his references to the landini cadences say so much. but who cares. a huge spirit. monumental life.

[CZP87]

I love this ballet! I discovered it years ago in the concert hall (Valencia Orch. - Cerveró) together with Berio's Sinfonia, it was a delightful experience.

[MrAkihiros]

Even with serialism the stravinsky voice is still there unlike other serial music where there's a numbing sameness.

[dalecampbl5]

@MrAkihiros i agree, genius can make anything sound good...most serial compositions I've heard are just terrible IMO

[iamalittlespy]

@MrAkihiros Stravinsky's 12 tone music is indeed unique, with pulsating rhythmic drive, frequent use of ostinato, rich orchestration, use of woodwinds and etc. However, I respectfully yet strongly disagree that there is “numbing sameness” in serial music of other composers. If it wasn't for Schoenberg, Stravinsky would not be writing serial music at all, even though he waited until after Schoenberg died to start writing in 12 tones.

[iamalittlespy]

@MrAkihiros (cont.) As for sameness of serial music, I would argue that music of three major composer's composers of the Second Viennese School; Schoenberg, Berg and Webern is very distinctive to the trained ear. Berg and Webern developed very different styles.

[iamalittlespy]

@MrAkihiros (cont) Berg found a way to give serial music a pseudo-tonal feel in his masterpieces Wozzeck and Violin concerto. Webern created minature perfect gems with minimal yet perfect orchestration, where the sound is plain beautiful even if the listener is not aware of the tone row.

[iamalittlespy]

@MrAkihiros I am not trying to be combative. I just believe credit should be given to the masters, who wrote serial music before Stravinsky and who he learned from, just like he learned from Debussy, Rimsky-Korsakov, Tchaikovksy, Wagner and many others.

[MrAkihiros]

@iamalittlespy This avalanche of reaction is flattering in a way, but I do agree with you and commend you for your passion and knowledge. I definitely agree with you RE the unique artistic paths Shoenberg (who secretly Stravinsky admired by the way, and therefore detested), Berg, and Webern (both of whom I listen to alot these days) have managed to squeezed from the tube of serialism. No hysterical samurai attack here. Lol. Peace.

[iamalittlespy]

@MrAkihiros I like your response, especially about "samurai" attacks, :-). I know that there was a "difficult" relationship between Schoenberg and Stravinsky as they took a few swipes at each other over the years. Yes Stravinsky was an insecure and competitive soul.

[MrAkihiros]

@iamalittlespy In the 20's Stravinsky was peeved at Shoenberg for calling him 'mr. modernist' even when Igor was exuberant about 'Transfigured Night.' In the 50's Stravinsky ridiculed Britten ( grandmother Britten) for his musical experimentations. Yes Prince Igor was an insecure, competitive, grumpy, miserly, suspicious (and not without reason because his accountant robbed him blind!) old man. Btw I like your post on Shoenberg's funeral. Wherever do you find these gems? Cheers man.

[iamalittlespy]

@MrAkihiros Your knowledge of Stravinsky's life is truly impressive ! I though it was Stravinsky who threw the first stone and in response Schoenberg called him" Mr.Modernsky". Another thing I know Stravinsky did was deny the fact that his music had a strong russian influence, he was a piece of work. I don't know he had a problem with Britten, who seemed like a very nice man. I don't know where I found Schoenbergs funeral, I just stumbled upon it I guess.

[iamalittlespy]

@MrAkihiros Sorry for the poor grammar in the last post, hehe. I really ought to read a Stravinsky biography, he was indeed a character and did have a fascinating life.

[MrAkihiros]

@iamalittlespy Looking forward to you 'stumbling' on more interesting posts. Pleasure chatting with you.

[iamalittlespy]

@MrAkihiros Same to you Sir !

[CaptainBluebear08]

@MrAkihiros

"Der kleine Modernsky" actually, in Op.28.

: )

[MrAkihiros]

@CaptainBluebear08 You are right Captain!

[FenderRhodesService]

@MrAkihiros Maybe his sensitivity for sound/sonority ( and the build up insight over the years) gave him a bit of advantage. He was a force of nature , a sonic geyser!

[MrAkihiros]

@FenderRhodesService Sonic geyser - nice one. Even as a small boy in St. Petersburg he was already interested in 'different' sounds - like the slap of hands over skin and cheek he heard from a beggar by the sidewalk. He wanted to recreate it but I don't know if he succeded.

[FenderRhodesService]

@MrAkihiros I think he did a great job reworking music that was made before him. I think he had a very defined sonic-picture in his mind of what he wanted , a very deep understanding of how sound works and the countless ways in which music can make sense in any way / construction. But I also like guys like Stocky / Berio with a more dense orchestral sound. If that makes sense ?

[MrAkihiros]

@FenderRhodesService After that what could anyone say. he he

[fiandrhi]

@MrAkihiros Agon is not really serialism. It's Stravinsky's flirtation with serialism, but it's far from being a serial composition, and some passages have quite conventional tonality.

[mikebuddy1]

live on bbc4 tonight from the proms,looking foward.thanks for posting

[norvy666]

thanks for posting!

[montyverdyvesp]

genius! this great mind never stopped working even into his eighties. only death could silence him.

[musicnerd225488]

@montyverdyvesp how can a genius composer like him be silenced if his music is still alive? Rock on Stravinsky!!

[jovesheerwater]

@montyverdyvesp: Dramatic, but in what way is he silenced?