Response to "An open challenge to Peter Joseph and the Venus Project" EPIC FAIL!

[pinkasey]

this video-response is just plain stupid.

first, you treat the introduction of the original video, which introduces the conclusion of the speaker, as a premise, and dismiss it as "Appeal to fear, since he didn't give evidence" etc. let the guy speak!

than you address his claim

Then you top yourself - the man says he won't give up his way of life, and if you want to take it away from him you will have to use force, and you bring up the "Appeal to fear fallacy" again!

[itsthekush]

@gfnyc1 You didn't answer the question he posed, which is a good question. The two quoted lines you posted aren't the same thing. Also, your hubris is off putting, much like the hubris of TMZ.

Though, the video did mention what they'd do with non-compliant people, not include them. So thats the first snag i see with TZM, the most resource rich areas tend to be essentially warzones, good luck trying to "civilize" them or w.e. this movement is achieving. My opinion- marxism 2.0

[quAdxify]

@itsthekush Marxism is as good as any system, its the human nature which makes it bad and just not working. If we keep on like this it will end in a 3rd world war, hunger crysis, destruction etc. maybe you dont want to see it but nonetheless it wont just solve the problems we have and those are huge. And nobody cares if you wont let go, nature is cruel and doesnt know any mercy, the survival of the fittest prooved to be true over millions of years and wont stop now it works or, get destroyed

[itsthekush]

@quAdxify Agreed on the human nature bit, but your assuming I have an issue "letting go" or that i can't/won't get my mind out of the current human paradigm. I was simply pointing out that human nature is what it is.

You have to be pragmatic when approaching these things, people just aren't ready yet. You might be, but that doesn't matter if everyone else isn't. It may very well take the next world war to bring around something like this, but till then it's just a nice idea

[quAdxify]

@itsthekush Happy to talk to an intelligent individual ;) unfortunately you are right, the majority is rather stupid and wont change anything until death is knocking at the door...

And no I dont assume you have a problem in letting go but most people have, as a matter of facts you cant even blame them as this behaviour turns out to be normal animal behaviour and genetics proove we dont differ too much from other animals. In the end it doesnt even matter too much right now as we cant change it.

[bluehazer]

SCG wants to continue to play The New Price Is Right, and yet, the fool doesn't realize: Most will only watch from home, fewer will get to play and less than 1 percent will get the big prize. And what about the rest of us who just want decent food, peace and time to build starships??

[itsthekush]

@bluehazer It's a nice idea, peace and building spaceships etc. But human nature is a tricky bitch, and life isn't fair. Maybe one day we can overcome the 2/3's of our brain that drive our instincts, but till then something like TMZ is just a nice idea.

[QuantumoftheOpera]

You will be able to live wherever you like, work for whoever you like or not work at all and live with the people you agree with.You don't even need to work for your own food.. Your points are quite silly and it seems you haven't done much research.TVP is a human centered system.No one said it has no flaws.What Fresco says is to join him in problem solving.If you dont know a lot about it check out their FAQ.Rejecting something without giving a better alternative is stupid.

[axe863]

@QuantumoftheOpera "Rejecting something without giving a better alternative is stupid." If, person A claims quantum fluctuations are caused by magical X-dimensional unicorns having sex whilst wearing magical mushroom flavored hats, does person B have to provide a valid explanation or rebuttal for his non-belief to be respected? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary, not zero evidence and pretty pictures.

[brandonclarkeww]

@axe863 lets stick w/ the example that you have here. If person A claims quantum fluctuations are caused by magical X-dimensional unicorns having sex whilst wearing magical mushroom flavored hats, does person B have to provide a valid explanation or rebuttal for his non-belief to be respected? Well, I would hope that as a human being, you wouldn't want people to be fooled by this ridiculous belief so person B would tell everybody the true cause of Quantum Fluctuations, thus spreading knowledge

[axe863]

@brandonclarkeww "Does person B have to provide a valid explanation or rebuttal for his non-belief to be respected?" Yes or no?

[brandonclarkeww]

@axe863 the answer isn't a black or white, yes or no. You have choices and those choices have consequences. Choose no and people continue w/ an erroneous belief that involves sex and unicorns; choose yes and you offer your own insights and/or facts to further human knowledge and discredit those beliefs. It's a choice like everything in this life is.

[axe863]

@brandonclarkeww This is a burden of proof problem. If I invalidate something or demonstrate its low statistical probability, I dont have to give a better alternative or any alternative for my position to be valid. I dont even have to prove its non-existence, the person making the positive claim must prove its existence. TVP has zero evidence (even 0 theoretical evidence) on the proclaimed superiority to a capitalistic system. Im a pro-scientific individual that why Im not pro-TVP.

[brandonclarkeww]

@axe863 Here's an excerpt from your last post... "If I invalidate something or demonstrate its low statistical probability..." I do understand the point you are coming from axe863 but you have yet to demonstrate TVP's low statistical probability. And, I don't know where you would be getting these statistics if there wasn't a scientific inquiry done on the subject on your behalf. As of now, TVP has more statistics than you. But it is still a matter of choice.

[axe863]

@brandonclarkeww Please link me to TVP published peer reviewed models. Oh yeah...there are absolutely none. His approach is anti-scientific whilst he preaches about hardcore scientism. One does not conclude the superiority of a proposed system without adequate testing and at the very least a falsifiable model. TVPs RBE is on same scientific level as my "quantum fluctuations are induced by unicorns " hypothesis given the required 100% participation threshold for falsifiability to be applicable.

[axe863]

@brandonclarkeww In fact, "I dont even have to prove its non-existence, the person making the positive claim must prove its existence. TVP has zero evidence (even 0 theoretical evidence) on the proclaimed superiority to a capitalistic system. "Thus, I don't even have to prove that TVP is fundamentally inferior and impossible. You have to prove that is fundamental superiority and feasibility. The default position is atheistic with respect to TVP. This is why TVP is inherently anti-scientific.

[axe863]

@brandonclarkeww Ill save you the trouble ....... the answer is a strong no.

[brandonclarkeww]

@axe863 I'm not a TVP advocate, but I do believe in what is fair for the human race. And it isn't fair for you to slander their name and cause. Just understand that he just wants a better world for us all and he thinks that he has some great ideas. You can continue to call them stupid, but at least now you know the consequences of that action. Consequences like- Close Mindedness and Hindering the Freedom of Speech. Stay warm hearted and open to all possibilities axe.

[axe863]

@brandonclarkeww ... o_0.

[axe863]

@brandonclarkeww His ideas are actually just the ideas of Walt Disney, Buckminster Fuller, Technocracy, Karl Marx etc. Maybe if you actually researched what youre talking about, you would see that the movement and its ideas are not really that original.

[Xality]

@axe863 The comparisons you make do have some similarities but are not TVP at all, however even if TVP had the money right now it could not work, why? because the human mindset, mindsets like yours need to change. 6 million children die of starvation every year, almost a billion people don't have enough to eat, this project is for them too, to turn ppl who work all day and make a buck into scientists, architechs, designers, singers, dancers, athletes, etc...

[Xality]

@axe863 There are problems with it axe, off course there are but the whole point of this is to ask people for solutions, to solve our problems together, to turn all ppl doing pointless jobs (finance, insurance, solicitors, polititians, factory workers, etc) into ppl who can be whatever they want, TVP will educate them for free to be whatever they want to be... technology is at a stage where all this is possible axe, the things that have not been designed could be designed by people now.

[axe863]

@Xality Wait for my next video..... I will prove (100% certainty) the impossibility of TVPs RBE systemic risk adjusted superiority. Please dont be like other TVPers and just hit dislike without critically considering my next video.

[brandonclarkeww]

@QuantumoftheOpera It's not stupid, it's a choice.

[911Truthseekers3]

NO, YOU JUST WONT LIVE THERE!

[TheParyniux]

I love how it's assumed that physical violence would be necessary. Talk about having cultural influences. I wouldn't mind good solid reasoning against VP and ZM so it could create a sound discussion and ultimately better solutions, but so far all I have found are opinions, baseless arguments, false reasoning and worst of all: A total misunderstanding of the point. The anger and hatred to it in some cases is plain baffling.

[axe863]

8 people actually understand how the ridiculous TVP/TZM really is....

[BudDub67]

@axe863 lol, you think an end to poverty war and even CRIME is ridiculous? your right it is ridiculously amazing...

[axe863]

@BudDub67 I must ,also, hate the children because I don't believe in magical supercomputers that overcome Turing incomputability, right? Scientific method this scientific method that.... Have they ever applied the scientific method to validate the superiority of the RBE or even its computational feasibility. NO. Stop believing in magic and start being a rational pro-scientific individual.

[655Robert]

like he said it's not perfect is it better ? who knows it's an idea, we need something better than what we have now. we need a new solution a new system

[655Robert]

like he said it's not perfect is it better ? who knows it's an idea, we need something better than what we have now.

[spiderpilot]

I think you have a narrow mind, not offend, Are you one of this people that might not agree with certain things? such as religion, politics, sexual orientation or races? People need to change, society need to change, everybody deserve to live and enjoy this world. Maybe you have everything in live: food, roof and clothing, there are others don't have anything. I think we live in a dictatorship society, we haven't evolve. Peace.

[ideasarebulletpr00f]

<----- Nice reference!

LOL 

[bioserve]

this has been quite the interesting debate . all the talk about violence and such seems to come directly from those who seem benefited by the monitary system. their fear of change seems to bring on the violent nature due to the "training" or "idea" they need to protect their property. when if everybody has 1 , then nobody would need to take 1 from others . obviously there are other factors to create this but its a peaceful thought for future benefits to all . not just the few !

[ZOMBIEHEADSHOTKILLER]

did i just not see it or is their no reply from stormcloudsgathering? hahaha

[cooks1234]

huh funny in 2:37 you pretty much said what millions of people around the world said about market economy and inequality only difference the supporters of market economy actually tortured and killed off millions of people especially in latin america and africa.

no zgm

also what of the civil rights movement they didnt kill and still succeded in their goal.

VRADIOdotorg EPIC EPIC FAIL!!!!!!!!!!!!

[cooks1234]

@cooks1234 yes im replying to this comment that is made by me but for the record its not me its my idiotic friends who used my account but yes i agree with his comment though it wouldve been better if he had put it on the right video. i would delete it but the trash icon isnt shown

[TheParyniux]

@cooks1234

ZM and VP are neither of those things you mentioned. You're pulling arguments from nowhere and using mismatched comparisons.

It's not a change in law. Nor politics, nor trade regulations. It's a movement away from it all into something new. You either follow or you don't. The point is that it's not designed to take anything over, but to simply move away and eventually prove itself to be a better way of doing things. All are welcome and all are free...

[IronsidesX]

What an ass-hole you are!--Pull your head out-of-your-ass, and you might be able to breathe some clean air.--Maybe not!

[mdlittle5466]

Heh...nice vid. "Dem pacifists from da Zeitgeist Movement r' comin ta git us!" *BZZZT!!!* Epic Fail!

[Skaiste3theskay]

Yes I understand why you don't wanna live in RBE. But when you brother are dying and you must pai 40 millions dollar and more for the operation of heart and you don't have money... The monetary system say's You have two choises, or you pay or your brother's day. . .And this is only one of of millions examples. I only recomend to you, that you should investigate more. . . and Tell me, why we must fight eahc chader?. Thanks.

[Leveer13]

@Skaiste3theskay You realize this video is a RESPONSE video to someone who didn't want to live in an RBE right?

[Skaiste3theskay]

@Leveer13 Ahhh,, then I'm really sorry.. meaby i had confused with other video. . .X). i'M SORRY THEN :3

[brahmbhattbhavna]

peter joseph merola does not dislike the kkk

[Tekkhan]

i'd wager that StormCG is in the typical amalgamation world wide where the current system wholely benefits predominately his kind. And, is he concerned that his kind forces other sovereign countries to acquiesce land & resources by force, war, embargo, and sanctions? or that millions of indiginous peoples are genocidally killed, displaced, and imprisoned for denouncing and defending their lands, rights, and sovereighty by his kind (like minds not race). TZM is just light yrs ahead pal.

[wonmoreminute]

@Tekkhan bingo!!! Nice post.

[worldlearner0411]

yeah this guy knows much less about this movement then he thinks he does. To anyone who understands the movement, all of the comments made seem silly and are easily answered.

[Leveer13]

@worldlearner0411 It is important to understand that the person who made the video that this is refuting has since changed his attitude and is in fact a good friend of mine now. He is still not a member of the movement, and he doesn't agree with some of the things we believe, but he does not think we are evil or that our idea will automatically lead to violence anymore.

[worldlearner0411]

@Leveer13 Well that is good......keep trying.....maybe he will come around. These ideas are difficult to explain in their entirety. I have yet to ever find a person that did not agree with the movement that actually fully understood it. I think its awesome though that he is entertaining the idea.

[XtraAbnormalNews]

Too bad Roxanne flagged the original video, dissent must not be welcome around TZM.

[Leveer13]

@XtraAbnormalNews The motive for doing that was that we don't like people using our artwork for negative purposes. We don't run around looking for deletion of all dissent. But some of his videos were a bit over the top. And he recognized that and apologized later.

[XtraAbnormalNews]

@Leveer13 Doesn't look that way, considering the video he made last.