Maniacal's Nolan and Shumacher Batman Thoughts

[Horridfilms]

I think Bale is underrated in Dark Knight. It works for the story, he is supposed to be overwhelmed, exhausted, and losing control of the situation. Then in the next one he will rise!

[PaulEManiacal]

@Horridfilms I think he gets a lot of unnecessary criticism because he isn't terrible. Like you said it did go with what the character was going through. But I just felt something was missing that could have put that point across better. Like I said though I'm not sure if it came down to Nolan or Bale or both in that aspect. I hope Bale goes all out in DKR.

[Indubitably14]

Yeah, truthfully the Penguin, the Riddler, Two-Face, and Mr. Freeze were all laughing maniacally and cracking jokes like the Joker. I am not sure if you have read Dark Victory but that is my personal favourite and ONLY introduction of Robin that I like. Val Kilmer was bland in every way. George Clooney was only good at being "playboy" Bruce Wayne. Even at a young age, I had seen "Heart of Ice" and so I really disliked B&R's portrayal of Mr. Freeze.

[PaulEManiacal]

@Indubitably14 That just shows how great the performance of Nicholson was as it influenced nearly every on screen comic book villain since him. I love Ledger's performance a LOT but Nicholson like Burton has been getting crapped on by bandwagon fanboys as of late. But yea I do own Dark Victory and it is a very good graphic novel and the Robin story is well done. BUT I've just never seen why a hardened crime fighting anti-hero who relies on fear would train a 10 year old kid.

[PaulEManiacal]

@Indubitably14 Also even though I think the Jason Todd arc is great and interesting for the Batman character I just see it as a rehash of Harvey Dent becoming Two Face. In that Batman feels it is is greatest failure and feels responsible for their pain and the evil they become. The animated movie on Red Hood however was REALLY good.

[Indubitably14]

@PaulEManiacal

Yeah the second and third Robins, the Nightwings, the Red Hoods, are all the results of continuity that has stretched on for too long. I am not going to lie, like you, I prefer Batman on his own but at the same time, I was touched by the story in Dark Victory. To see Bruce relive the death of his parents in the eyes of Dick Grayson and to take in this orphan but not with the intention of training him but to be a father figure because he truly understands how he feels.

[PaulEManiacal]

@Indubitably14 Yea it has become too much in the comics. But I do appreciate what Dick Grayson personally represents to Bruce Wayne. In that he shares the exact same bond that can never be broken between the two. That is what I never fully understood though in the other comics that Bruce is so irresponsible that he trains this little kid to fight crime in the most deplorable city in the United States. However I can understand taking him in and helping Dick with his own demons.

[Indubitably14]

I guess, in the end, I like DICK GRAYSON as an orphan in Wayne's house more than Robin as a side kick to Batman.