PANZER - jagdpanzer jagdpanther Panzerjäger Sturmgeschütz

[VivianVenusoi617]

geil jemand deutsch

[Oso1G]

Hardest hitting tank destroyer in World War 2....... I won't count the jadtiger as it was simply too large to be effective.

Jagpanther was very practical and very very deadly with the greatly feared 88/L71.

[HeirofGojira91]

@Oso1G No mistake - the Jagdpanther if you noticed was more successful than the Tiger variants. Jagdtiger is a collosal tragedy - waste of resources, fuel and parts. Only time Porsche actually had Jagdtiger that was cheaper, easier ot build and required less time than Heschel's one. Bengal Tiger already was a mistake. Take the Jagdpanther as you said - cost-effective, fast, powerful and well protected and had a gun equal to the Bengal Tiger :)

[HeirofGojira91]

@Oso1G Plus - given its got the benefit of a Panther's chassis but better firepower hence the Jagdpanther solved the Nashorn's poor armor and the Elefant/Jagdtiger's speed disadvantages haha! Afterall 80mm solid frontal sloped armor is same as the Panther's plus the PaK 43 made it deadlier than a Tiger I's kwk L/56 88mm gun! The Jagdpanther makes one of the top babies of WWII AFV's in Tank hunting :D Only drawback was numbers, production and maintenance was a nightmare still :(

[HeirofGojira91]

hmm - the Jagdpanther's frontal armour was said to be 60-80mm thick and sloped - which was theoretically superior to the 100mm of vertical armour...

[artacania]

ok .. 3 words : I WANT IT !

[graae2181]

wow - dullest voice ever

[spottydog4477]

mate,, pay attention to what he's sayin' - This is a information docco - not a F**kin' TV comedy show

[J99Grimbold]

@spottydog4477

Can you tell me whats the name of the documentary please?

Regards!

[thousandson556]

@spottydog4477 too right mate

[SkullKing11841]

@spottydog4477 Yeah not like that crap on History Channel now, they get so much shit wrong.

[stormscion]

@graae2181 excellent narrator in fact , i am fed up with imbecile narrators from modern TV that every second word is curse word or some emotional expression ( woah that is so awesome and other unprofessional crap )

[derrickislander]

What an awesome vehicle.

[actonbath]

After reading the journals, interrogations and post war analysis by 19 Wehrmacht and SS Panzer Commanders and the surviving leaders of the High Command....no one really like this vehicle.

Too slow, too difficult to adj fire(turretless), mechanicals.

Just another stop-gap measure and an attempt to extend the limited resources.

[jackzero99]

@actonbath Of course they liked tanks better than SPG's and TD's. It was still a very effective TD and cheaper than a regular tank. The only failure was the JadgTiger.

[PkayerZxz2]

@actonbath Bullshit. The Jagdpanzer was the best turretless TD of the war, if not THE best TD period. It was an excellent combination of thick sloped armor, a low profile, and a very powerful gun.

[Dreachon]

@PkayerZxz2

He's referring to the jagdtiger I believe which also feaures in this video from 2:57 onwards and in that aspect he is correct.

[PkayerZxz2]

@Dreachon Ah, in that case yes. The Jagdtiger was pretty bad. The need for such a heavy TD didn't really exist. It's only purpose would be to destroy IS-2s, and it would only be able to fill this role of there were enough of them to facilitate it's employment in larger units, like the Tiger Abts.

[DonMeaker]

German forces tried to move their armored forces out of contact with the enemy (not subject to tank, artillery, tank destroyer, or bazooka fires, and moving through previously secured towns, so not subject to mines. Aircraft were critical because they were the one method to attack german forces moving laterally across the battlefield when not in contact with the Allied forces. Though total was a small percentage, that capability- to attack, or force German units to slow, was important.

[PkayerZxz2]

@DonMeaker While allied tactical aircraft definitely impeded the movement of Panzer units, they did so by shooting up soft targets such as trucks. Tactical aircraft were responsible for about 5% of all German armor losses on the west front.

[DonMeaker]

@PkayerZxz2 US aircraft also managed to shoot up german commanders. One german general commanding an army drove a motorcycle, hoping that the allied aircraft wouldn't bother to shoot up a lone cyclist. He was wrong. Rommel also had his thick Swabian head fractured by a .50 caliber round from an aircraft.

[PkayerZxz2]

@DonMeaker Irrelevant. We're talking about tanks. I already pointed out that the only thing that tactical aircraft could take out were soft targets.

[DonMeaker]

@PkayerZxz2 You yourself point out that 5% of german armor losses were from aircraft. Now consider the german countermeasure to reduce those losses: get off the road, move at night. Those countermeasures meant reduced ability to mass forces for counterattacks, denying German armor operational mobility. War is not mere attrition, but use of space and time. Germany lost the fight for time due to the aircraft.

[PkayerZxz2]

@DonMeaker I never said that air power had no effect on Germany's ability to move troops. I just said that tactical aircraft had minimal success when it came to destroying Panzers.

[DonMeaker]

jagdpanzer had the weaknesses of Panther, wide stance, thin top armor, vulnerable to .50BMG fire from aircraft, difficulty with final drives reliability, road wheels unreliability.breaking and interleaved suspension getting filled with mud or breaking. It didn't have the weakness of the Panther turrent traverse hydraulics, but had its own problems with the limited traverse.

[Dreachon]

@DonMeaker

Aircraft kills are overrated, besides so many tanks had thin top armour, not just only the jagdpanther or any panzer for that matter.

[DonMeaker]

@Dreachon The North Koreans captured in that conflict were asked what US weapon of which they were afraid. "The blue airplanes" was the most common response.

[Dreachon]

@DonMeaker

What has Korea to do with the jagdpanther?

[DonMeaker]

@Dreachon you said aircraft kills were overrated. I pointed out that a survey of captured Norks showed aircraft were the most feared weapon. (Norks fielded the T-34/85)

[Dreachon]

@DonMeaker

An in depth study was undertaken by the US to see how many german tanks were knocked out during the normandie campaign, their study revealed that less than 10% off all german tank kills were from aircraft.

[DonMeaker]

@Dreachon The US fielded Tank destroyers, tanks, mines, bazookas, aircraft, and artillery to kill german tanks. Aircraft kills were crucial, not only destroying a respectable number of tanks, but driving entire panzer divisions off the roads where they could not be massed in time against fast moving US armored divisions. German units developed "Das Deutches Blick" the ingrained habit of scanning the sky for the allied aircraft. Rommel's staff had immense problems with allied aircraft.

[Dreachon]

You seem to missing the point and you pulling matters into this which don't matter.

Aircraft kills are overrated by a huge margin.

In the Falaise gap examiners found 385 tanks and armoured vehicles. Of these 13 were confirmed as destroyed by aircraft. 11 by rocket and two by bombs. They concluded that a salvo of 8 rockets had less than a 5% chance of acheiving a single hit.

Why the hell are you then also pulling, tankdestroyers, bazooka's and artillery into the discussion.

[Dreachon]

@Dreachon To continue

A similar report was carried out by 2nd tactical airforce after the Bulge. They examined an area where pilots claimed the destruction of 66 Tanks and 24 AFV's, whilst they found 57 tanks, 18 SP's and 26 other AFV's in the area abandoned but they concluded only 4 tanks, 2 SP's and an armoured car were destroyed by air attack. They concluded based on this, allied planes had destroyed 60 vehicles in the entire campaign.

[Dreachon]

@Dreachon

Pilots had claimed 750+ kills. They concluded whilst claims were made in good faith ( IE hits were scored) kills were exaggerated on average by 90%.

[Dreachon]

@Dreachon Battle of Mortain, Aug 7-10 Armor kills claimed by pilots: 252 Actual tanks destroyed by air-to-ground weapons (rockets and bombs): 9 Falaise Pocket, August 1944: Armor kills claimed by pilots 385 Actual tanks destroyed by air: 13 Ardennes, Dec 17-Jan 16: Armor kills claimed by pilots: 413 Actual tanks destroyed by air: 6 Aircraft were terrible for dealing with enemy armour, what they were good at was dealing with the logistical tail that keep it fighting.

[DonMeaker]

@Dreachon Ok, back to 7th grade. There are 7 categories of tank killing weapons, so average would be about 14%. Aircraft kills are at 10% so are are somewhat below average. Aircraft kills are concentrated on enemy forces while moving (in convoy). counter measure to aircraft required (1) staying off the roads, or (2) slowing movement by moving at night in blackout conditions. German counterattack tactics required mass, which meant moving forces. Slow moves meant counterattacks not launched.