The Liberal Party of Canada was WONDERFUL under Pearson, Trudeau and Chretien... If this was still the Liberal Party of Trudeau and Chretien, I would have had NO problem voting for them.. However, because of the influence of faux-Liberals like John Turner and then Paul Martin, then this asshole, the Liberals have moved WAYY too far to the right for me... Post-Chretien, I've moved to the NDP, because they STILL believe in their founding principles of Tommy Douglas..etc.
@ammarios And I WILL say, as much as I detest Paul Martin (if you read up on the Liberal Party, you will see that he has been the cause of SO MUCH internal fighting and divisiveness), I will give him credit for being an excellent Finance Minister who set the stage for Canada's relative economic well-being during the recession by banning bank-mergers that Harper OPPOSED when he was in opposition but is now actually TAKING CREDIT for ...
@ammarios My advice to the Liberals is: Notice that EVERY TIME you elected a more right-wing/conservative leader, you LOST the election (John Turner and his ideological heir PauL Martin)..WHY? Because in your attempt to appeal to conservative voters, you don't realize that conservatives would rather vote for the REAL conservatives...However when you had leaders like Trudeau (and his ideological heir Jean Chretien) you won HUGE majorities because you stuck to your centre-to-centre-left voter base
@ammarios And now that you've moved so far to the right, you've lost your entire left-wing supporters (like myself) to the NDP , and didn't get the support you were hoping for from more conservative voters (because they just decided to vote for the ACTUAL right-wing party...not "right-wing-light") ...
As a result, those who have tried to move the Liberal Party more to the right (Turner, Martin) LOST elections AND tore the party apart...
@ammarios The same applies to your left-wing voters..the have rightfully moved to the NDP (why vote for a "left-wing-light" party when you can just vote for the ACTUAL left-wing party? ... The Liberals right now either need to stick to their "centrist-with-a-slight-social-left-leaning' voter base and principles OR unite with the NDP and the Greens to bring the left-of-centre together .... Otherwise, the LPC will have outlived its usefulness ...
@ammarios Unite the left and next election there could very well be an NDP/Liberal/Green landslide majority government for the next number of decades and elections..And those who "fear that the more conservative faction of the Liberals will bleed to the Tories"..LET THEM..they were right-wingers all along AND the same was said about the Progressive Conservative-Reform merger and yes, the less-conservative Tories bled to the Liberals but they still won elections(proof: look at who's our govt now)
Ignatieff is doing the only thing he knows how to do - hide-out in a university faculty lounge and bullshit people about creating a perfect world. Actually, we now have a perfect world. One that is rid of the evils of a Liberal government. One that does not advocate the murder of babies. One that does not champion homosexual behavior while trying to destroy traditional families. One that does not cater to the rights of every special interest group.
@VeryHugeAss Destroy traditional families? For the vast majority of human history, families were composed of one husband and several wives who were joined together for economic and kinship purposes soon after they reached puberty. The "traditional" (nuclear) family only started as a way for the RCC to get their hands on people's property more easily. Homosexuality is the very last thing that could mar this "traditional" set-up.
Liberals are the most bizarre people. They will march up and down the street to protect a tree but they will fight tooth and nail to pass legislation to kill their own children. Kill a baby but save a tree seems to be the Liberal mantra.
@VeryHugeAss ya that and they also want to make people the criminals if they defend themselves in there own home I never even herd of anything so stupied in my life.
@AllstarCanadian Actually, about five or so die per year (in 1995). From what I understand, this wasn't for Canada though, it was for developing countries.
@VolatileReaction He is running for the Liberal party in Canada. I'm sure in other countries people die of childbirth, like the states where you need money to go to the hospital, or in a country that does have the most up-to-date health care. But speaking for Canada and Canadians, we don't have an issue with people dying of childbirth.
@AllstarCanadian What I meant by "this wasn't for Canada" was the topic of the show. They were discussing Canada's G8 maternity health plan for developing countries, where the rate of maternal deaths in childbirth is often very, very high.
With regards to Canada, as I said, there are about five deaths a year according to the Public Health Agency of Canada: tinyurl[.]com/3mmthwe
Abortion touches on the very moral character of our nation. God is the author of all live. A human life is His gift to a man & a women and we have no right to tamper with that which is the domain of God alone.
This country needs to protect the rights of the unborn under law once again. My statement is not against women, but a defence of an absolute moral truth.
@helen349wirenet your stance is not valid in issues of STATE. I'm so sick of people like you trying to blur the lines between religion and state when the two have nothing to do with each other and should not interfere with each other. If you don't believe in abortions that's fine, you're entitled to your own opinion.. if you don't believe in it DON'T GET ONE. simple as that.
@3510211 It doesn't, but that's not the premise of the pro-life argument. The premise is that fundamental human rights should be enshrined in law and defended by the state.
@Dauphin35 Then why should such a "human right" be enshrined in law? In this instance, an individual's personal decision really has no impact on society as a collective whole.
@3510211 The whole idea of human rights is that they're enshrined in law, regardless of the needs of the collective whole. They proceed from human dignity, not from political consensus.
@helen349wirenet God is NOT the author of all life (as you put it) when it comes to political and government issues and stances. That is merely your opinion. Just because YOU are religious doesn't make your opinion something which ALL Canadians, many who are either non-theists or of a different denomination than yours, have to follow. Our society and government are secular, by LAW. You are allowed the freedom to practice your religious beliefs as long as it doesn't (..cont'd..)
@ultralinem The economic record has never been worse than it is now in Canada. Don't try to endoctrinate people by using false and senseless predications, the Conservative government is (and the past 6 years proved it) incompetent and deceitful, always helping the wealthiest ones but never helping the real people.
Iggy has no idea..he abandoned his wife and kids over 30 years ago and went to Europe..now he wants Canadians to think he's a family man..does he visit his kids now that he's back in Canada?? He's strictly enanmored with himself..where did he get his russian wife..and where was he while he was in Europe..he's claimed allegiance to other countries and now he says he wants to lead Canadians..I don't think so..he creeps me out..
@ultralinem What does ANY of this have to do with the policies of the Liberal party? I understand if you don't want to vote for them because you don't agree with anything on their platform, but nitpicking a politician's personal life is just petty. Unless it conflicts with his public policy ("family values" Republican caught cheating with a gay hooker, for instance), then it's none of your business where he met his wife.
Ignatieff said a Liberal government would only allow Canadian troops to be deployed on missions that had the blessing of the United Nations.
“The Canadian army must never be used outside the country without the authorization of the UN,” Ignatieff told his audience in French. What? We're giving Russia and China a veto over the use of Canadian troops? This is the most bizarre understanding of national sovereignty I've ever heard from a Canadian politician.
I'm pro-abortion and pro-social programs whether its further health care coverage, education subsidizing, infrastructure and so on but honestly, I still can't bring myself to vote for anyone other than Harper. Ignatieff can't get his party in line. He's got a spine of the consistency of an uncooked weiner. Same goes for Layton. They just sort of flop around trying to please everyone. I disagree with a lot of Harper's stances but he's got stones and he runs a tight ship.
Harper is the most American candidate by far he is just good at hiding it. Abortion is needed as too many useless uneducated low income couples are spawning children they and our welfare system can not afford. If only the religious fanatics could understand that we would not have an issue.
if u cant afford a kid or you just dont want one thats your own decision. i know im not gunna ruin my life by having a kid at a young age. also think about what kind of life your kid will have if your a brokeass they are most likely to grow up and do worse then you did in life. like its really gunna effect the population or something.. and this crap about god says its wrong.. are you serious man.. whens the last time u talked to this god guy face to face lmao wat a joke
@mandino17 obviously you haven't been following how Harper would like to run this country. Privatizing health care, shared borders, auctioning off water rights to name a few. Maybe you should look a little further than your local propaganda commercials for information on the caddidates.
this guy was sent from the states to become our prime minister and merge the two countrys.. they are trying to infiltrate or country.. leave it to the yankees to do something so selfish.. wat a greedy damn nation. you are big enough dicks already?? no1 likes your shit country. your feared not respected. if you ask a favour from a country and refuse you bomb their ass. and take over. what a joke of a nation.. it has nothing to do with were this dude was born.
Woman's RIGHT TO CHOOSE, for or against, or just shut up. Either support it or not. YOu're not clear. Ignatieff. YOu dodge quesitons like this constantly. Grow a backbone
Check out ignatieffs rise up video. It's high on the top viewed today in Canada. The video restricts pro conservative comments. How's that for wanting full control over media, where is the free debate? Try posting something conservative, it will not be posted. This guy is a hack.
Election: as far as election goes... we know they are once again going to break their promises. Dont' you ppl have memory? The choice is clear to me – don't participate in the mind game that election is. 0% participation is what's needed to win this war – ppl against politicians and power elite.
As far as abortion goes: every one of you (including iggy) could be conceived to a women that'd have aborted. And you'd not be debating this thread right this moment.
When it comes to values, such as value of 'life' there should be no difference between parties. Life is life and taking it away spells a murder. No matter who you are - conservative, liberal whatever. It's a universal value is should be treated as such, never becomes a campaign point. Here are some valid campaign points: should we be involved in afganistan, iraq ? Libya? Should we be supporting Israel?
George, I'm disappointed. Iggy, although I disagree with his all-out support for abortion, is showing a principled stance on conscience votes, and you seem to have no patience for it. Going your route, we would silence debate on an issue that has always been controversial, and would contribute to the horribly undemocratic trend of bloc-voting in the House.
All issues in the House should be decided by free vote. Otherwise we rob ourselves of healthy, spirited debate, and true democracy.
The only thing this debate shows is how far we from understanding of what really transpires during an abortion. You are actually aborting a human life. The debate is incomplete without this understanding. A chance at life is being taken away from a 'soul' that's already spent some life-potential on attaching to the new body. That really is how simple that is. The new soul attaches to the body and spends potential doing so. Aborting, makes this spending go to waste.
If Canadian girls/women decide to spread their legs for random men they meet in a bar and then get pregnant and have an abortion.....then who are we to decide.
It's important that we allow women to have safe abortions. The legality of abortion doesn't affect the incidence of it. Whether or not abortions are legal, women are going to be having them. What affects the incidence of abortion is access to birth control and good sex education. If we focus on those two things, abortion rates would go down.
So basaically we should let every 15 year, sexually active teen HAVE their baby. We should let all rape victims HAVE their babies. We should let every single mom of 4 children whos husband left her for a younger model HAVE the pregnancy she found whilst getting trashed for the first time in 3 years since D day....If we didnt have pro choice, our welfare system would be worse than it is today, not to mention the fact that we would be more over populated than we already are.
We aren't overpopulated... We have one of the lowest population densities in the entire world... Besides, there are close to the same amount of abortions per year as immigrants to Canada... Without abortion, immigration would become less important, as we would be replacing our own population. FYI rape cases account for only 1% of abortions...
I don't recall people talking about issues with the welfare system before abortion was legalized here...
The usual tactics is to use highly emotional and contentious issue to divide the electorate along. I really hope this guy just goes back to wherever he came from to keep writing his books justifying torture and so on. With this guy at the wheel we'd be fully engaged in Iraq, Afganistan, Libya from the very early on. You don't like Harper for participating in Libya's war? Ignatieff would be far, far worse.
When they talk about rights, they usually mean taking them away! Full reproductive right and abortion don't belong in the same sentence! They are very serious about reducing population, making it dependent on drugs – junk-food vicious circle. There is research that shows that GMO terminates ability to have children in second generation – that is far more important matter to discuss. Do they discuss it? No! Because that serves their purpose. They only discuss things that help their evil deeds.
I'm glad that we don't fund abortions anymore. We shouldn't even fund abortions in Canada... Say what you will about womens right to choose blah blah blah... I just think that the money we spend ending lives could be spent better saving lives.
If women want to kill there babies, I don't want to pay for it... I would rather my taxes go towards ER wait times being reduced or something that SAVES lives, not ends them.
I don't want to pay for a woman to kill her baby... That seems fair to me... The right to control her body would be to not get pregnant, or to use birth control.
Assert their rights... Gimme a break... Asserting rights doesn't take my taxes to do it. If a woman wants to pay the $1000 to get an abortion, fine, I won't stop her, but I would rather my taxes save lives than end them... I know, I'm a terrible person for wanting to save lives... Oh, well
@EruditeCanadian I have to say that your statement only goes out to women who are irresponsible while having sex. You seem to forget groups of women who are for example rape victims. I agree with you that abortion should not be used as a form of birth control but at the same time I think we need to remember the women who are choosing to get an abortion for reasons beyond their control.
MOST women use it now as a method of birth control. You should check out the Guttmacher Institute's website. It's a non profit, pro choice organization, and according to their statistics, only 1% of abortions are due to rape/incest. I think 1 or 2% were due to medical reasons... So that leaves 97% under the "convenience" category... Sad, but that's coming from a pro choice organization, not a pro life organization, so I don't doubt it's accuracy.
@EruditeCanadian Actually, MOST women use oral contraception (the pill) as birth control -- Stats Canada is happy to provide that statistic. Careful with your wording, now... ;)
I didn't forget about rape victims at all. Even if we kept abortion legal for rape victims and medical reasons, that would still eliminate 97% of all abortions performed. (US stats, Canada is probably very similar, but I couldn't find data on Statscan)
I think the most disturbing thing about the whole abortion issue, is how "pro choice" groups have put such a positive spin on it... These women actually seem to get excited about killing their babies... It's pretty disgusting.
@EruditeCanadian If you REALLY want to get technical, you say you "Don't want to pay for a woman to kill her baby" Well we went into the middle east with the US and supported their war on terror..which by the way killed many women AND children as troops raided villages, dropped mass amounts of bombs etc. and last time I checked..it was the tax payers who funded our military. Women should qualify for abortion for reasons ONLY concerning rape/medical issues. No questions asked.
You're also right about us going and blowing shit up in the middle east, however you'll find a lot of the baby killing lefties are opposed to the wars in Iraq and Afghan, but love killing innocent babies... It's pretty hypocritical, but what can you expect from lefties?
Liberals are generally devoid of anything that resembles ethics, morality or principles...
@EruditeCanadian That's a pretty big generalization. Unless you are referring to Liberal party members today, which is arguable, and not just anyone who is a liberal. I mean 'lefties' like Tommy Douglas have been the driving force behind this nation for the past century. And defining our moral backbone has been their magnum opus. All things considered, Harper's actions haven't exactly displayed a strong sense of ethics.
Liberalism of today is not the same as it was in Tommy Douglas' time. Today, liberalism is conformist and not liberal at all.
For example, a university Pro life group is now suing Carleton University after they were banned, arrested and prevented from exercising their freedom of expression, because the faculty didn't like their opinions. That is liberalism today; we accept everyone, except if you disagree with us, then you are banned and arrested... Not very liberal, is it?
@EruditeCanadian So wait..are you saying that the children of the middle east AREN'T innocent? Hmm..and I'm sorry I have to disagree with you..conservatives can not be seen as moral when they support war, put more money into military and police rather than schooling and social programs not to mention the want to make gay marriage illegal again. I find the right wing in comparison to the left quite a bit less moral and I don't vote Liberal and I don't support Ignatieff.
The problems with liberals is that they are hypocrites... Conservatives say what they stand for, whereas liberals say what they stand for, except for this, this and that...
And you are forgetting that it was the liberals that committed our troops to Afghanistan, not the Conservatives... The liberals just bitched about it when they became the opposition, even though they sent us there! LOL HYPOCRITES!!!
@EruditeCanadian The liberals are also the ones who ordered those fighter jets iggy the twit keeps talking about...Conservatives are just keeping our end of the deal!
Yeah I know!!! lol Every time a liberal opens their mouth, nothing but bullshit ever comes out of it! Same with Afghanistan! They bitch about Harper keeping the troops there, but they sent them in the first place!
The way the Liberals are going, I doubt that I will ever vote for them in my lifetime... If the Conservatives started screwing up really bad, I would probably just not vote rather than vote for Liberal retards.
Furthermore, the Conservatives always have to spend billions at a time on the military, because it is the Liberals tendency to not spend a dime on the military for decades, and then bitch about the Conservatives having to replace all of the equipment that is worn out from decades of use... They still expect lots of peacekeeping operations though... One or the other, if you don't want to equip them, keep them home. If you want them to do their jobs, give them the tools they need
@EruditeCanadian Due to years of being deprived of proper equipment, I think you'll find that the Canadian soldiers have learned to improvise with what they have. I believe that if money by the government was spent more on education and social programs used to help the impoverished of our nation we would see a great increase in crime and therefore not need to spend so much money on police and justice systems. We could then invest in the military but we need to take care of home first.
If by improvise you mean die, then yeah, they're improvising well. Social programs aren't the end all to our problems. Too much, and you begin to get cultures of entitlement like we already see in Canada. Isn't it odd that homicide and other violent crimes were lowest on record 50 years ago before we had all these social programs? (and before gun control)
I agree that we should take care of home first. Lets cancel all foreign aid until we get our own problems sorted out.
@EruditeCanadian Where are you statistics/back up that Canadian soldiers are dying more frequently than any other nation at war? Or that our soldiers have ever died more than the soldiers of other nations? I know many in the military and they will tell you the same thing: Improvisation has caused them to become better at their profession as the game of war itself requires intelligent thinking and improvisation in many ways.Social programs aren't the answer entirely but with free education it is.
If you compare our casualties in Afghanistan, we have 3 times as many as the USA, proportional to the amount of troops. 2/3 of those were killed by IED/mines. You can attribute that to insufficient armour, hence the new Nyala mine resistant vehicles, and the fact that the CF had no medium lift helicopters. They were driving convoys around all the time when they should have just been airlifted. The Conservatives just bought some used Chinooks and new ones are on order
This is the Canadian position, if you don't like it, concentrate on getting abortion repealed in the USA. Oh, you can't even do that. Stay out of our business.
@Matthew23and9 you know what really gets me is the same people who advocate for our world are ok with abortion...if you watch the Zietgiest movie for example they proove in their own scientific study that a fetus is influenced by it's environment right from the womb, and that what happens in the womb effects them out of the womb into life...proving that it is a life before being born and yet they as atheists will advocate for abortion...
@Matthew23and9 I agree with you it is why I pointed them out because they are hypocrits they have all the evidence to prove that a baby is a life from fetus and would never maintain this right because they also have an agenda...I also believe in the God of the bible but I listened to Zietgeist because some of their facts are straight of course they can't do what is right with them because of their atheist propegandus mind set
Anyone who supports abortion being tax-payer funded (in our country OR overseas) doesn't believe in freedom and doesn't believe in respect for tax-payer money! We already have one spokesman for communism in Ottawa, we don't need another. Ignatieff: You are a joke, you smarmy racist Hillary Clinton lap-dog! You don't have a shot in hell! Just leave our country!!!!
Everyone commenting on psychopathic criminals don't vote for criminals. Liars, deceitful, psychopathic mentality. How many decades is it going to take before Canadians get it that politicians are the real enemies of Canada. Just take a good look at the resume of politics from day 1. I don't vote for criminals & never will. Take out the politician variable & we will truely have the best country in the world.1st politicians then corporate psychopaths.Or is that too simple agree?
@worldolympics2010, its hard for me to read you, you and probably all of the conservative supporters in Canada believe that abortion is murder, yet you and probably most conservatives believe that the death penalty is okay, and cannabis and immigration is wrong. When I ask some people why they think abortion is wrong, they say "what wrongs has the unborn done to you?", you can also say that about immigrants and innocent people who go to jail for no reason, but you wont,
@MrATOM180 Abortion is the act of killing a fetus, so it's completely justified to refer to it as murder. After all, it is a separate organism with its own unique genetics. The government exists to enforce the rule of law, and when that doesn't include the protection of life society itself fails to understand the value of human life. Just look at how self-centered people are. Also, I have no problem with immigration, but there is such a thing as too much.
Ignatieff should not be talking about anything that has anything to do with international issues. He was not elected in an international election he needs to shut up and work for Canada's interests not those of other sovereign nations! As a sovereign nation our politicians work for us & should not be addressing international issues
Also George is right, it is either a human right or it's not and this just proves that the liberal party is divided as to whether abortion is indeed a human right.
it is such a shame! there are no abortion restrictions in canada! the only reason I never vote liberal is because of abortion. most conservatives on the conservative party are pro life including the MP in my riding. i hope for a majority conservative government comes soon to stop this murder!
@worldolympics2010 i seek to respect other people's opinions on every issue: abortion, gay marriage, etc. as long as the individual has arrived at their belief through logic and reasoning. if religion is involved then that tells me that logic and reasoning does not apply and they do not have the right to vote. is religion involved in your disdain for abortion?
@worldolympics2010 i seek to respect other people's opinions on every issue: abortion, gay marriage, etc. as long as the individual has arrived at their belief through logic and reasoning. if religion is involved then that tells me that logic and reasoning does not apply and that they should not have the right to vote. is religion involved in your disdain for abortion?
@worldolympics2010 i seek to respect other people's opinions on every issue: abortion, gay marriage, etc. as long as the individual has arrived at their belief through logic and reasoning. if religion is involved then that tells me that logic and reasoning does not apply and they should not have the right to vote in my opinion. is religion involved in your disdain for abortion? if not i may approve of your view
@Freethinker12341 I don't think its right to say that "religion" has no means to be logical and reasonable. But anyways my point is that its NOT an issue of RELIGIOUS BELIEFS, but rather a question of HUMAN LIFE. Let us take to mind that a fetus is a LINAGE of humans that become you and me. Destroying a fetus we disrupt the nature of life, and we open the doors of destroying a generation. Why do people care about human life? What value is there to live? Not a question of religion, but naturallaw
@cycy6 I think it becomes a religous debate because Christians believe that life is given by God and mankind has no right to play God. On that note we all like you believe it is an absolute montrosity against an inocent unborn baby who can not even defend it's own self and an asault on woman as well because most regret they ever had an abortion. This is an act against humanity and life is a sacred institution...we might go the God route with it but we believe what you do it is inhumaine!
@lucy9359 It was in response to attacking religion. It is not only a christian debate but rather debate that defends human life, Christians are at the forefront no doubt but there are other religious groups like the Muslims, and Jews who also condone this act. There are also secular groups that also take part in pro-life movements, its just that the public assumes that these groups are religious based.
@cycy6 I must say it is to bad that we as humanity need a religous debate to respect the sanctamonious accord of human life. Why would we sacrifice a baby? If one stopped to ponder love for a brief moment would they not conclude their is nothing more sacred than to love an innocent child even if the woman was raped for it to be concieved?Even a bear will sacrifice and risk it's life to protect it's young. This teaches us something is within human nature that is not in the animal kingdom.
@lucy9359 Yeah that thing within human nature not found in the animal kingdom? It's called a rational mind. Oh and careers, school, dreams, hopes, relationships, MONEY. All these things influence a woman's decision to continue a pregnancy or not. It's not as simple as "bears sacrifice for their young, why can't we"? Well because when momma bear gets pregnant she doesn't have to worry about where her next paycheque is coming from, or how she's gonna finish college.
The government shouldn't legislate abortion. It is not an easy choice to make, and the government is far less apt to make it than the person whom it most affects.
I discourage it on the grounds of what a fetus can become, but I will not stop them.
Iggy loves to talk out of both sides of his mouth. Does he honestly believe that the Liberals couldn't turn the vote if they wanted to? It was well orchestrated. Don't take my word for it, over 100 pieces of legislation have passed as a direct result of Liberals "not showing up for votes' over the past few years. Iggy not only had a "bad day" that day, he has had literally hundreds of "bad days".
I agree. But simply being a better leader is not enough when the policies and direction is just plainly wrong (One can argue of course) I mean Hitler was in many way a great leader, but in retrospect would we rather have his weak and pathetic opposition instead?
@tkmmark I don't agree with Harper on many things but overall I'm impressed with the way that he has handled a variety of issues, such as the gloabl economic collapse, Haiti, H1N1 (apparently we were the fastest nation to distribute the vaccine per person), his professional leadership on the world stage (G8, G20). I didn't vote in 2008 but in the next election Harper has my vote. As far as direction is concerned, nothing really changes dramatically on that front.
@NodeRanvier He was pressured to act during the economic collapse because the opposition holds the majority of the house and demanded stimulus spending. Remember that the finance minister flip flopped and Harper's natural inclination to fiscal conservatism had to be reversed. Also, Canada's banks are safe due to the banking regulations (that Harper despised) from Paul Martin.
@tkmmark The banking regulations were in place long before Paul Martin. I never gave Harper and Flahrety credit for the regulations. However I am impressed at how many jobs are being created. I'm an avid news reader and for the past few months (since July) Canada has created 403, 000 jobs ("What economists are saying about Canada's job numbers). This can be credited to the government. The reason for the reversal was because this was an unprecedented cirmucmstance, something I never thought...
@NodeRanvier The banking regulations were in placed before yes, but I think the defining moment was when during Martin's years as Financial Minister, he resisted the opposition (Harper or Day) and the banks in their requests to merge the banks. As for jobs, well, that's great. But Canada wasn't hit as hard as many of the nations and let's remember why.
@tkmmark You make this sound as if the Liberals actually believed that economic stimulas was needed; they only pressured the government because they were opposing whatever action they happened to be taking. As soon as the Conservatives changed their minds and decided to include a stimulas package, they were heavily criticized for it BY the Liberals ( as well as the NDP). They are still criticized to this day by political pundits and Liberals for the current debt levels caused by the stimulas.
@NodeRanvier The Liberals and NDP oppose anything... Yes, you are right, this is illustrated with them complaining that the Tories are not doing anything, and then when Tories flipflopped and generated a deficit, they were complaining instead of helping Canadian realize that the deficit was necessary (though the money was still mismanaged... hockey games.... for example). But still, I'd not vote for the Conservative because it is clear that majority will allow them to be much more austere.
@NodeRanvier As for G8... If it were not because of the Liberal's ability to rein in on spending in the 90s without causing chaos and prevention of banks from self-destruction, countries like UK (now trying to replicate Canada's ability) would not have noticed, and Harper would have no grounds on pursuing fiscal austerity as the objective for G20 countries. I sometime imagine how he sleeps at night knowing that he has to take credit for the very economic polices he hated all his life.
Lastly, there is the prorogation, messing with StatCan, Afghanistan affair then failure to comply with disclosing documents, failure to include family planning in the supposed maternal initiative, repealing the gun laws, etc... But of course, one can always argue those are good things in names of government autonomy, libertarianism, national security, religious morality, libertarianism respectively....
@tkmmark Well this is one of those things that I do not agree with Harper on. He should have allowed an inquiry for those Afghan documents. I find it incredibly frustrating when Liberals complain about this saying "It's an affront to democracy!" When in fact, Chretien did this many times, the last time being to avoid an inquiry to Adscam. Believe me I was a Liberal supporter back before Adscam, but I will not even think about voting for them again until Chretien is investigated for his actions.
@NodeRanvier Sure, and with the Adcam, the Liberals rightfully deserved their fall. There is sheer amount of snob and trickery. But this is politics, and people are selfish and this exist in all sides of the spectrum even NDP and Bloc. And in many ways since Chretien, the Liberals are equally fiscally conservative as the conservatives. But the Liberals are more keen to spend when necessary. Not to mention I find their social policies much more pragmatic.
@tkmmark They deserved more than a fall, but you know what bugged me the most? People actually still voted for them in the next election. That's when I realized, those people don't care about the nation, they only cared about being right. I can't imagine any other reason for voting for a party that steals the taxpayers money so blatantly. Maybe you can tell me?
The Liberals are pretty much dead now, no need to wish them fall even more.
I was too young to know anything and vote then, and since the PC is gone, my instinct would have been to move to the NDP. People voted for Liberals out of remembrance of what the party has done in the past and out of fear of what a Canadian Alliance government could mean. Mulroney might have made PC blue... but overall, PC was still a party symbolizing the red tories.
@NodeRanvier Canada is quickly going over to the power hungry. Our politicians are no longer interested in representing our best interests, they only want power.
It's disgusting, and needs to stop. They have put ideology over the good of this nation and its people for far too long.
@TheLastCanadian Some politicians are like this yes, but not all. I believe there are a lot of well meaning MP's who truly believe in betterinng the country. However for many politicians and voters it's now become a game (i.e. most of the Liberal Party). Does Ignatieff stand for anything that really distinguishes himself from Harper? No, he just wants to have the title of Prime Minister.
@tkmmark I do not think abortion is something that should be promoted to other countries, especially when we are so undecided on this issue as a Nation. The Gun registry is something I never agreed with. By the way, you didn't mention anything about the governments response to the Haiti earthquake which was praised internationally and their response to the H1N1 epidemic. Of course you wouldn't though. National policy is too important to leave to left and right ideologues.
@NodeRanvier Well I didn't mention anything because I was away in Europe at that time as I am now and I wasn't really following. Though Haiti is the way it is right now thanks to neoliberal agenda forced into it since Raegan and continued through Clinton not to mention the meddling with their only one truly democratic election of 1991.
So how can something be a question of human rights but not a moral question as well? You can't have REAL human rights unless they are grounded on natural law (which entails a moral code). You can have synthetic rights that have been socially fabricated by the society, but these aren't the same as real natural human rights.
@sweiland75 Yeah sorry but ignoring debate is not a logical argument. Then again this is hardly about logic for you is it?
And as for "your business" we've had plenty of idiots from Canada Europe and elsewhere getting into our business in the US so sorry if they get to poke their nose into our business we get to do likewise.
Ok tell me this. Why should average Canadians have to pay for other Canadians to be able to chop up their kids for free? I mean at least if they are going to do it shouldn't they do it out of their own pockets? I have relatives up their and they don't like this one bit.
@sweiland75 Little trouble with that. See this Yankee also happens to be an imperialist! (culturally and otherwise) And I wish to impose prenatal justice up north! :)~
LOL, terminate pregnancy?! If you support it, say it as it is - ABORTION
LasagnaIsGood 2 months ago
The Liberal Party of Canada was WONDERFUL under Pearson, Trudeau and Chretien... If this was still the Liberal Party of Trudeau and Chretien, I would have had NO problem voting for them.. However, because of the influence of faux-Liberals like John Turner and then Paul Martin, then this asshole, the Liberals have moved WAYY too far to the right for me... Post-Chretien, I've moved to the NDP, because they STILL believe in their founding principles of Tommy Douglas..etc.
ammarios 3 months ago
@ammarios And I WILL say, as much as I detest Paul Martin (if you read up on the Liberal Party, you will see that he has been the cause of SO MUCH internal fighting and divisiveness), I will give him credit for being an excellent Finance Minister who set the stage for Canada's relative economic well-being during the recession by banning bank-mergers that Harper OPPOSED when he was in opposition but is now actually TAKING CREDIT for ...
ammarios 3 months ago
@ammarios My advice to the Liberals is: Notice that EVERY TIME you elected a more right-wing/conservative leader, you LOST the election (John Turner and his ideological heir PauL Martin)..WHY? Because in your attempt to appeal to conservative voters, you don't realize that conservatives would rather vote for the REAL conservatives...However when you had leaders like Trudeau (and his ideological heir Jean Chretien) you won HUGE majorities because you stuck to your centre-to-centre-left voter base
ammarios 3 months ago
@ammarios And now that you've moved so far to the right, you've lost your entire left-wing supporters (like myself) to the NDP , and didn't get the support you were hoping for from more conservative voters (because they just decided to vote for the ACTUAL right-wing party...not "right-wing-light") ...
As a result, those who have tried to move the Liberal Party more to the right (Turner, Martin) LOST elections AND tore the party apart...
ammarios 3 months ago
@ammarios The same applies to your left-wing voters..the have rightfully moved to the NDP (why vote for a "left-wing-light" party when you can just vote for the ACTUAL left-wing party? ... The Liberals right now either need to stick to their "centrist-with-a-slight-social-left-leaning' voter base and principles OR unite with the NDP and the Greens to bring the left-of-centre together .... Otherwise, the LPC will have outlived its usefulness ...
ammarios 3 months ago
@ammarios Unite the left and next election there could very well be an NDP/Liberal/Green landslide majority government for the next number of decades and elections..And those who "fear that the more conservative faction of the Liberals will bleed to the Tories"..LET THEM..they were right-wingers all along AND the same was said about the Progressive Conservative-Reform merger and yes, the less-conservative Tories bled to the Liberals but they still won elections(proof: look at who's our govt now)
ammarios 3 months ago
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This guy is such a pile of shit.
VeryHugeAss 3 months ago
why can't TheHour figure out how to upload a HD video without pillarboxing?
SilentServiceCode 6 months ago
Ignatieff is doing the only thing he knows how to do - hide-out in a university faculty lounge and bullshit people about creating a perfect world. Actually, we now have a perfect world. One that is rid of the evils of a Liberal government. One that does not advocate the murder of babies. One that does not champion homosexual behavior while trying to destroy traditional families. One that does not cater to the rights of every special interest group.
VeryHugeAss 6 months ago
@VeryHugeAss Destroy traditional families? For the vast majority of human history, families were composed of one husband and several wives who were joined together for economic and kinship purposes soon after they reached puberty. The "traditional" (nuclear) family only started as a way for the RCC to get their hands on people's property more easily. Homosexuality is the very last thing that could mar this "traditional" set-up.
VolatileReaction 6 months ago
Who's "rights" are you protecting by not allowing a woman to have an abortion?
3510211 8 months ago 7
@3510211 The baby's rights are being protected you fuck-tard.
VeryHugeAss 8 months ago
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@VeryHugeAss A fetus is not a baby.
3510211 8 months ago
@3510211 Well, actually many notable scientists prefer to use the term 'unborn baby' now that more scientific data is available.
ROlshansky1 8 months ago
@VeryHugeAss There is no baby you cretin.
gingerbreadcorpses 6 months ago
@gingerbreadcorpses veryhugeass is a huge ass....and a stupid christian bigot moron , and worships harper and his band of anti-intellectual stooges
Freethinker12341 6 months ago
@3510211 the religious zealots supposed divine law
Freethinker12341 6 months ago
@3510211 simple none at all , all it does is reduce woman rights
cutegirliegirla 3 months ago
@3510211 The right of the most innocent and defenseless not to be murdered, perhaps?
venomousspiderwookie 1 month ago
@venomousspiderwookie LOL if you actually think that fetuses are human beings
3510211 1 month ago
Liberals are the most bizarre people. They will march up and down the street to protect a tree but they will fight tooth and nail to pass legislation to kill their own children. Kill a baby but save a tree seems to be the Liberal mantra.
VeryHugeAss 9 months ago
@VeryHugeAss ya that and they also want to make people the criminals if they defend themselves in there own home I never even herd of anything so stupied in my life.
viper10011 8 months ago
When's the last time a woman has died in childbirth in Canada... this isn't the 40s.
AllstarCanadian 9 months ago
@AllstarCanadian Actually, about five or so die per year (in 1995). From what I understand, this wasn't for Canada though, it was for developing countries.
VolatileReaction 6 months ago
@VolatileReaction He is running for the Liberal party in Canada. I'm sure in other countries people die of childbirth, like the states where you need money to go to the hospital, or in a country that does have the most up-to-date health care. But speaking for Canada and Canadians, we don't have an issue with people dying of childbirth.
AllstarCanadian 5 months ago
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@AllstarCanadian What I meant by "this wasn't for Canada" was the topic of the show. They were discussing Canada's G8 maternity health plan for developing countries, where the rate of maternal deaths in childbirth is often very, very high.
With regards to Canada, as I said, there are about five deaths a year according to the Public Health Agency of Canada: tinyurl[.]com/3mmthwe
VolatileReaction 5 months ago
Abortion touches on the very moral character of our nation. God is the author of all live. A human life is His gift to a man & a women and we have no right to tamper with that which is the domain of God alone.
This country needs to protect the rights of the unborn under law once again. My statement is not against women, but a defence of an absolute moral truth.
helen349wirenet 10 months ago
@helen349wirenet your stance is not valid in issues of STATE. I'm so sick of people like you trying to blur the lines between religion and state when the two have nothing to do with each other and should not interfere with each other. If you don't believe in abortions that's fine, you're entitled to your own opinion.. if you don't believe in it DON'T GET ONE. simple as that.
justicedn 9 months ago
@helen349wirenet If you don't like abortions...don't get one? How does others choice to have an abortion affect you?
3510211 9 months ago
@3510211 It doesn't, but that's not the premise of the pro-life argument. The premise is that fundamental human rights should be enshrined in law and defended by the state.
Dauphin35 9 months ago
@Dauphin35 Then why should such a "human right" be enshrined in law? In this instance, an individual's personal decision really has no impact on society as a collective whole.
3510211 9 months ago
@3510211 The whole idea of human rights is that they're enshrined in law, regardless of the needs of the collective whole. They proceed from human dignity, not from political consensus.
Dauphin35 9 months ago
@Dauphin35 I was about to take your comments seriously but I looked at your page and realized you practice Catholicism.
3510211 9 months ago
@3510211 I don't believe for a moment you're capable of an intelligent rebuttal. Your anti-Catholic bigotry is merely a cover.
Dauphin35 8 months ago
@helen349wirenet God is NOT the author of all life (as you put it) when it comes to political and government issues and stances. That is merely your opinion. Just because YOU are religious doesn't make your opinion something which ALL Canadians, many who are either non-theists or of a different denomination than yours, have to follow. Our society and government are secular, by LAW. You are allowed the freedom to practice your religious beliefs as long as it doesn't (..cont'd..)
ammarios 9 months ago
@helen349wirenet affect another potentially non-theist Canadian's rights to live their life WITHOUT having to subscribe to those self-imposed laws.
ammarios 9 months ago
What an idiot. We don't need less White babies, we need more!
return135 10 months ago
@return135 - lol...............What?
TheInternetWanderer 10 months ago
@TheInternetWanderer Ignatieff wants to subsidize abortion and birth control.
return135 10 months ago
@return135 - As a white male I can only ask: What does colour have to do with it?
TheInternetWanderer 10 months ago
@TheInternetWanderer Race is more than just skin colour. Any one who has studied the topic of race would know that.
return135 10 months ago
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@return135 -"We don't need less White babies, we need more!" - Your words!
TheInternetWanderer 10 months ago
Glad there is at least one intelligent man in Canadian politics. Clearly not many here below me on youtube ...
EnchancedHuman 10 months ago
vote NDP this election! It's time for change!
309327278 10 months ago
sinister
dueckrandy 10 months ago
To Keep Canada free and economically strong, Vote Conservative..
ultralinem 10 months ago
@ultralinem The economic record has never been worse than it is now in Canada. Don't try to endoctrinate people by using false and senseless predications, the Conservative government is (and the past 6 years proved it) incompetent and deceitful, always helping the wealthiest ones but never helping the real people.
Neuroneos 10 months ago
@ultralinem Bahahahaha whata jokester u are
EnchancedHuman 10 months ago
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voted.. cpc all the way. Hate alot of their policies, but Libs are totally retarded now.
countzero1972 10 months ago
voted.. cpc all the way. Hate aalot of their poicies, but Libs are totally retarded now.
countzero1972 10 months ago
@countzero1972
Iggy has no idea..he abandoned his wife and kids over 30 years ago and went to Europe..now he wants Canadians to think he's a family man..does he visit his kids now that he's back in Canada?? He's strictly enanmored with himself..where did he get his russian wife..and where was he while he was in Europe..he's claimed allegiance to other countries and now he says he wants to lead Canadians..I don't think so..he creeps me out..
ultralinem 10 months ago
@ultralinem What does ANY of this have to do with the policies of the Liberal party? I understand if you don't want to vote for them because you don't agree with anything on their platform, but nitpicking a politician's personal life is just petty. Unless it conflicts with his public policy ("family values" Republican caught cheating with a gay hooker, for instance), then it's none of your business where he met his wife.
VolatileReaction 6 months ago
@countzero1972 So is the CPC.
metyzermanfan19 3 months ago
Ignatieff said a Liberal government would only allow Canadian troops to be deployed on missions that had the blessing of the United Nations.
“The Canadian army must never be used outside the country without the authorization of the UN,” Ignatieff told his audience in French. What? We're giving Russia and China a veto over the use of Canadian troops? This is the most bizarre understanding of national sovereignty I've ever heard from a Canadian politician.
1thatisilluminated 10 months ago
Don't vote for the Conservatives or the Liberals!
YumeWire 10 months ago
I'm pro-abortion and pro-social programs whether its further health care coverage, education subsidizing, infrastructure and so on but honestly, I still can't bring myself to vote for anyone other than Harper. Ignatieff can't get his party in line. He's got a spine of the consistency of an uncooked weiner. Same goes for Layton. They just sort of flop around trying to please everyone. I disagree with a lot of Harper's stances but he's got stones and he runs a tight ship.
Nateb123 10 months ago
Harper is the most American candidate by far he is just good at hiding it. Abortion is needed as too many useless uneducated low income couples are spawning children they and our welfare system can not afford. If only the religious fanatics could understand that we would not have an issue.
Leviathan024 10 months ago
if u cant afford a kid or you just dont want one thats your own decision. i know im not gunna ruin my life by having a kid at a young age. also think about what kind of life your kid will have if your a brokeass they are most likely to grow up and do worse then you did in life. like its really gunna effect the population or something.. and this crap about god says its wrong.. are you serious man.. whens the last time u talked to this god guy face to face lmao wat a joke
mandino17 10 months ago
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u have something to say email me mandino17@hotmail.com id be glad to hear wat you have to say
mandino17 10 months ago
anyone who votes for this yank is giving our country away and has no consern for our nations wellbeing
mandino17 10 months ago
@mandino17 funny... Harper's the one who adopts all the American ideals and religious bias
000snow000 10 months ago
@mandino17 obviously you haven't been following how Harper would like to run this country. Privatizing health care, shared borders, auctioning off water rights to name a few. Maybe you should look a little further than your local propaganda commercials for information on the caddidates.
m0nkey1eader 10 months ago
his long trem priorities are not those of the canadian people. fuck you ignatieff you 2faced yankee
mandino17 10 months ago
this guy was sent from the states to become our prime minister and merge the two countrys.. they are trying to infiltrate or country.. leave it to the yankees to do something so selfish.. wat a greedy damn nation. you are big enough dicks already?? no1 likes your shit country. your feared not respected. if you ask a favour from a country and refuse you bomb their ass. and take over. what a joke of a nation.. it has nothing to do with were this dude was born.
mandino17 10 months ago
Woman's RIGHT TO CHOOSE, for or against, or just shut up. Either support it or not. YOu're not clear. Ignatieff. YOu dodge quesitons like this constantly. Grow a backbone
TrollOvGrimness 10 months ago
It's pathetic that some Canadian conservatives are claiming Ignatieff was not born in Canada. Our very own "Birther Movement" - how original...
Google "Girther Movement" and find out about the new Tea Party-esque angle that could bury the left.
Canaderek 10 months ago
Check out ignatieffs rise up video. It's high on the top viewed today in Canada. The video restricts pro conservative comments. How's that for wanting full control over media, where is the free debate? Try posting something conservative, it will not be posted. This guy is a hack.
EconomicCharlatan 10 months ago
I'm only 15, but I'm definitely voting for him/ the Liberals when I can. I hate anti-abortionists. :@
xoxILoveCatsxox 10 months ago
Abortion is not murder. Until we start growing our progeny outside of a women's body, it's her choice. Not yours,
prepboy25 10 months ago
Friends don't let friends vote LIBERAL - that is just plain stupid!
Abortion is nothing but murder!
lacilakatos 10 months ago
I will never vote for Liberal Party until this idiot is the leader. Such an asshole.
unitedworld4everyone 10 months ago
Iggy's mom shoulda' used a coat hanger for more than coats when she was pregnant with him.
spudd777 10 months ago
You said it!!! Thats what I was going to say in response....nice!...For everyone else.......educated yourself people before you post stuff on here
imdb2004 10 months ago
Michael Ignatieff he didn't come back for you.
SamuelBTucker 10 months ago
Election: as far as election goes... we know they are once again going to break their promises. Dont' you ppl have memory? The choice is clear to me – don't participate in the mind game that election is. 0% participation is what's needed to win this war – ppl against politicians and power elite.
d0br0l8b 10 months ago
As far as abortion goes: every one of you (including iggy) could be conceived to a women that'd have aborted. And you'd not be debating this thread right this moment.
d0br0l8b 10 months ago
When it comes to values, such as value of 'life' there should be no difference between parties. Life is life and taking it away spells a murder. No matter who you are - conservative, liberal whatever. It's a universal value is should be treated as such, never becomes a campaign point. Here are some valid campaign points: should we be involved in afganistan, iraq ? Libya? Should we be supporting Israel?
d0br0l8b 10 months ago
I can finally say I respect Michael for something.
ss396rip 10 months ago
George, I'm disappointed. Iggy, although I disagree with his all-out support for abortion, is showing a principled stance on conscience votes, and you seem to have no patience for it. Going your route, we would silence debate on an issue that has always been controversial, and would contribute to the horribly undemocratic trend of bloc-voting in the House.
All issues in the House should be decided by free vote. Otherwise we rob ourselves of healthy, spirited debate, and true democracy.
415423591 11 months ago
The only thing this debate shows is how far we from understanding of what really transpires during an abortion. You are actually aborting a human life. The debate is incomplete without this understanding. A chance at life is being taken away from a 'soul' that's already spent some life-potential on attaching to the new body. That really is how simple that is. The new soul attaches to the body and spends potential doing so. Aborting, makes this spending go to waste.
d0br0l8b 11 months ago
If Canadian girls/women decide to spread their legs for random men they meet in a bar and then get pregnant and have an abortion.....then who are we to decide.
TimeGod12 11 months ago
@rider4343 Fuck you!
LeftWingPOG 11 months ago
Abortion shouldn't just be tax payer funded. It should be mandatory and late term!!!!
LeftWingPOG 11 months ago
It's important that we allow women to have safe abortions. The legality of abortion doesn't affect the incidence of it. Whether or not abortions are legal, women are going to be having them. What affects the incidence of abortion is access to birth control and good sex education. If we focus on those two things, abortion rates would go down.
dustlandfairy 11 months ago
So basaically we should let every 15 year, sexually active teen HAVE their baby. We should let all rape victims HAVE their babies. We should let every single mom of 4 children whos husband left her for a younger model HAVE the pregnancy she found whilst getting trashed for the first time in 3 years since D day....If we didnt have pro choice, our welfare system would be worse than it is today, not to mention the fact that we would be more over populated than we already are.
TheMandaraye 11 months ago
@TheMandaraye
We aren't overpopulated... We have one of the lowest population densities in the entire world... Besides, there are close to the same amount of abortions per year as immigrants to Canada... Without abortion, immigration would become less important, as we would be replacing our own population. FYI rape cases account for only 1% of abortions...
I don't recall people talking about issues with the welfare system before abortion was legalized here...
EruditeCanadian 11 months ago
The usual tactics is to use highly emotional and contentious issue to divide the electorate along. I really hope this guy just goes back to wherever he came from to keep writing his books justifying torture and so on. With this guy at the wheel we'd be fully engaged in Iraq, Afganistan, Libya from the very early on. You don't like Harper for participating in Libya's war? Ignatieff would be far, far worse.
d0br0l8b 11 months ago
When they talk about rights, they usually mean taking them away! Full reproductive right and abortion don't belong in the same sentence! They are very serious about reducing population, making it dependent on drugs – junk-food vicious circle. There is research that shows that GMO terminates ability to have children in second generation – that is far more important matter to discuss. Do they discuss it? No! Because that serves their purpose. They only discuss things that help their evil deeds.
d0br0l8b 11 months ago
the abortions in question appear to be ones where the mother and the child would probably die, so I'm pro-life, I choose one dies instead of two~
noobler9 11 months ago
I'm glad that we don't fund abortions anymore. We shouldn't even fund abortions in Canada... Say what you will about womens right to choose blah blah blah... I just think that the money we spend ending lives could be spent better saving lives.
If women want to kill there babies, I don't want to pay for it... I would rather my taxes go towards ER wait times being reduced or something that SAVES lives, not ends them.
EruditeCanadian 11 months ago
@EruditeCanadian
So you're in favour of impoverishing women from low-income just because they assert their rights to control their body?
87wokker 11 months ago
@87wokker
I don't want to pay for a woman to kill her baby... That seems fair to me... The right to control her body would be to not get pregnant, or to use birth control.
Assert their rights... Gimme a break... Asserting rights doesn't take my taxes to do it. If a woman wants to pay the $1000 to get an abortion, fine, I won't stop her, but I would rather my taxes save lives than end them... I know, I'm a terrible person for wanting to save lives... Oh, well
EruditeCanadian 11 months ago
@EruditeCanadian I have to say that your statement only goes out to women who are irresponsible while having sex. You seem to forget groups of women who are for example rape victims. I agree with you that abortion should not be used as a form of birth control but at the same time I think we need to remember the women who are choosing to get an abortion for reasons beyond their control.
Kilby6969 11 months ago
@Kilby6969
MOST women use it now as a method of birth control. You should check out the Guttmacher Institute's website. It's a non profit, pro choice organization, and according to their statistics, only 1% of abortions are due to rape/incest. I think 1 or 2% were due to medical reasons... So that leaves 97% under the "convenience" category... Sad, but that's coming from a pro choice organization, not a pro life organization, so I don't doubt it's accuracy.
EruditeCanadian 11 months ago
@EruditeCanadian Actually, MOST women use oral contraception (the pill) as birth control -- Stats Canada is happy to provide that statistic. Careful with your wording, now... ;)
siriusisastar 11 months ago
@Kilby6969
I didn't forget about rape victims at all. Even if we kept abortion legal for rape victims and medical reasons, that would still eliminate 97% of all abortions performed. (US stats, Canada is probably very similar, but I couldn't find data on Statscan)
I think the most disturbing thing about the whole abortion issue, is how "pro choice" groups have put such a positive spin on it... These women actually seem to get excited about killing their babies... It's pretty disgusting.
EruditeCanadian 11 months ago
@EruditeCanadian good for you speak up if we all allow ourselves to lay down there is no voice of morality left in this earth!
lucy9359 11 months ago
@EruditeCanadian If you REALLY want to get technical, you say you "Don't want to pay for a woman to kill her baby" Well we went into the middle east with the US and supported their war on terror..which by the way killed many women AND children as troops raided villages, dropped mass amounts of bombs etc. and last time I checked..it was the tax payers who funded our military. Women should qualify for abortion for reasons ONLY concerning rape/medical issues. No questions asked.
Kilby6969 11 months ago
@Kilby6969
I agree with your last statement...
You're also right about us going and blowing shit up in the middle east, however you'll find a lot of the baby killing lefties are opposed to the wars in Iraq and Afghan, but love killing innocent babies... It's pretty hypocritical, but what can you expect from lefties?
Liberals are generally devoid of anything that resembles ethics, morality or principles...
EruditeCanadian 11 months ago
@EruditeCanadian That's a pretty big generalization. Unless you are referring to Liberal party members today, which is arguable, and not just anyone who is a liberal. I mean 'lefties' like Tommy Douglas have been the driving force behind this nation for the past century. And defining our moral backbone has been their magnum opus. All things considered, Harper's actions haven't exactly displayed a strong sense of ethics.
Isdazedandconfused 10 months ago
@Isdazedandconfused
Liberalism of today is not the same as it was in Tommy Douglas' time. Today, liberalism is conformist and not liberal at all.
For example, a university Pro life group is now suing Carleton University after they were banned, arrested and prevented from exercising their freedom of expression, because the faculty didn't like their opinions. That is liberalism today; we accept everyone, except if you disagree with us, then you are banned and arrested... Not very liberal, is it?
EruditeCanadian 10 months ago
@EruditeCanadian So wait..are you saying that the children of the middle east AREN'T innocent? Hmm..and I'm sorry I have to disagree with you..conservatives can not be seen as moral when they support war, put more money into military and police rather than schooling and social programs not to mention the want to make gay marriage illegal again. I find the right wing in comparison to the left quite a bit less moral and I don't vote Liberal and I don't support Ignatieff.
Kilby6969 10 months ago
@Kilby6969
The problems with liberals is that they are hypocrites... Conservatives say what they stand for, whereas liberals say what they stand for, except for this, this and that...
And you are forgetting that it was the liberals that committed our troops to Afghanistan, not the Conservatives... The liberals just bitched about it when they became the opposition, even though they sent us there! LOL HYPOCRITES!!!
EruditeCanadian 10 months ago
@EruditeCanadian The liberals are also the ones who ordered those fighter jets iggy the twit keeps talking about...Conservatives are just keeping our end of the deal!
imdb2004 10 months ago
@imdb2004
Yeah I know!!! lol Every time a liberal opens their mouth, nothing but bullshit ever comes out of it! Same with Afghanistan! They bitch about Harper keeping the troops there, but they sent them in the first place!
The way the Liberals are going, I doubt that I will ever vote for them in my lifetime... If the Conservatives started screwing up really bad, I would probably just not vote rather than vote for Liberal retards.
EruditeCanadian 10 months ago
@Kilby6969
Furthermore, the Conservatives always have to spend billions at a time on the military, because it is the Liberals tendency to not spend a dime on the military for decades, and then bitch about the Conservatives having to replace all of the equipment that is worn out from decades of use... They still expect lots of peacekeeping operations though... One or the other, if you don't want to equip them, keep them home. If you want them to do their jobs, give them the tools they need
EruditeCanadian 10 months ago
@EruditeCanadian Due to years of being deprived of proper equipment, I think you'll find that the Canadian soldiers have learned to improvise with what they have. I believe that if money by the government was spent more on education and social programs used to help the impoverished of our nation we would see a great increase in crime and therefore not need to spend so much money on police and justice systems. We could then invest in the military but we need to take care of home first.
Kilby6969 10 months ago
@Kilby6969
If by improvise you mean die, then yeah, they're improvising well. Social programs aren't the end all to our problems. Too much, and you begin to get cultures of entitlement like we already see in Canada. Isn't it odd that homicide and other violent crimes were lowest on record 50 years ago before we had all these social programs? (and before gun control)
I agree that we should take care of home first. Lets cancel all foreign aid until we get our own problems sorted out.
EruditeCanadian 10 months ago
@EruditeCanadian Where are you statistics/back up that Canadian soldiers are dying more frequently than any other nation at war? Or that our soldiers have ever died more than the soldiers of other nations? I know many in the military and they will tell you the same thing: Improvisation has caused them to become better at their profession as the game of war itself requires intelligent thinking and improvisation in many ways.Social programs aren't the answer entirely but with free education it is.
Kilby6969 10 months ago
@Kilby6969
If you compare our casualties in Afghanistan, we have 3 times as many as the USA, proportional to the amount of troops. 2/3 of those were killed by IED/mines. You can attribute that to insufficient armour, hence the new Nyala mine resistant vehicles, and the fact that the CF had no medium lift helicopters. They were driving convoys around all the time when they should have just been airlifted. The Conservatives just bought some used Chinooks and new ones are on order
EruditeCanadian 10 months ago
Keep your religion/politics away from my body.
loosepages 11 months ago
Those two are a real pair. The amount of arrogance on that stage is truly MIND BLOWING.
wheelzwheela 11 months ago
This is the Canadian position, if you don't like it, concentrate on getting abortion repealed in the USA. Oh, you can't even do that. Stay out of our business.
mtlxpo 11 months ago
"Pregnancy Termination" is murder
Matthew23and9 11 months ago
@Matthew23and9 you know what really gets me is the same people who advocate for our world are ok with abortion...if you watch the Zietgiest movie for example they proove in their own scientific study that a fetus is influenced by it's environment right from the womb, and that what happens in the womb effects them out of the womb into life...proving that it is a life before being born and yet they as atheists will advocate for abortion...
lucy9359 11 months ago
@lucy9359
but Zeitgeist also teaches lies and says that there is no God
God does exist, the God of the Bible
Matthew23and9 11 months ago
@Matthew23and9 I agree with you it is why I pointed them out because they are hypocrits they have all the evidence to prove that a baby is a life from fetus and would never maintain this right because they also have an agenda...I also believe in the God of the bible but I listened to Zietgeist because some of their facts are straight of course they can't do what is right with them because of their atheist propegandus mind set
lucy9359 11 months ago
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Anyone who supports abortion being tax-payer funded (in our country OR overseas) doesn't believe in freedom and doesn't believe in respect for tax-payer money! We already have one spokesman for communism in Ottawa, we don't need another. Ignatieff: You are a joke, you smarmy racist Hillary Clinton lap-dog! You don't have a shot in hell! Just leave our country!!!!
VoiceOfModeration 11 months ago
Everyone commenting on psychopathic criminals don't vote for criminals. Liars, deceitful, psychopathic mentality. How many decades is it going to take before Canadians get it that politicians are the real enemies of Canada. Just take a good look at the resume of politics from day 1. I don't vote for criminals & never will. Take out the politician variable & we will truely have the best country in the world.1st politicians then corporate psychopaths.Or is that too simple agree?
Kilooscarromeo 1 year ago
Ignatieff is a non-factor in Canadian politics. I wish it weren't true, as a life-long Liberal, but he is. It's a shame
geegee1848 1 year ago
@worldolympics2010, its hard for me to read you, you and probably all of the conservative supporters in Canada believe that abortion is murder, yet you and probably most conservatives believe that the death penalty is okay, and cannabis and immigration is wrong. When I ask some people why they think abortion is wrong, they say "what wrongs has the unborn done to you?", you can also say that about immigrants and innocent people who go to jail for no reason, but you wont,
MrATOM180 1 year ago
@MrATOM180 Abortion is the act of killing a fetus, so it's completely justified to refer to it as murder. After all, it is a separate organism with its own unique genetics. The government exists to enforce the rule of law, and when that doesn't include the protection of life society itself fails to understand the value of human life. Just look at how self-centered people are. Also, I have no problem with immigration, but there is such a thing as too much.
jellofuel 1 year ago
Ignatieff should not be talking about anything that has anything to do with international issues. He was not elected in an international election he needs to shut up and work for Canada's interests not those of other sovereign nations! As a sovereign nation our politicians work for us & should not be addressing international issues
Also George is right, it is either a human right or it's not and this just proves that the liberal party is divided as to whether abortion is indeed a human right.
rooftopeagle 1 year ago
it is such a shame! there are no abortion restrictions in canada! the only reason I never vote liberal is because of abortion. most conservatives on the conservative party are pro life including the MP in my riding. i hope for a majority conservative government comes soon to stop this murder!
worldolympics2010 1 year ago
@worldolympics2010 i seek to respect other people's opinions on every issue: abortion, gay marriage, etc. as long as the individual has arrived at their belief through logic and reasoning. if religion is involved then that tells me that logic and reasoning does not apply and they do not have the right to vote. is religion involved in your disdain for abortion?
Freethinker12341 1 year ago
@Freethinker12341 An excellent point, and very well put. :)
siriusisastar 11 months ago
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@worldolympics2010 i seek to respect other people's opinions on every issue: abortion, gay marriage, etc. as long as the individual has arrived at their belief through logic and reasoning. if religion is involved then that tells me that logic and reasoning does not apply and that they should not have the right to vote. is religion involved in your disdain for abortion?
Freethinker12341 1 year ago
@worldolympics2010 i seek to respect other people's opinions on every issue: abortion, gay marriage, etc. as long as the individual has arrived at their belief through logic and reasoning. if religion is involved then that tells me that logic and reasoning does not apply and they should not have the right to vote in my opinion. is religion involved in your disdain for abortion? if not i may approve of your view
Freethinker12341 1 year ago
@Freethinker12341 I don't think its right to say that "religion" has no means to be logical and reasonable. But anyways my point is that its NOT an issue of RELIGIOUS BELIEFS, but rather a question of HUMAN LIFE. Let us take to mind that a fetus is a LINAGE of humans that become you and me. Destroying a fetus we disrupt the nature of life, and we open the doors of destroying a generation. Why do people care about human life? What value is there to live? Not a question of religion, but naturallaw
cycy6 1 year ago
@cycy6 well said.
viper10011 1 year ago
@cycy6 I think it becomes a religous debate because Christians believe that life is given by God and mankind has no right to play God. On that note we all like you believe it is an absolute montrosity against an inocent unborn baby who can not even defend it's own self and an asault on woman as well because most regret they ever had an abortion. This is an act against humanity and life is a sacred institution...we might go the God route with it but we believe what you do it is inhumaine!
lucy9359 11 months ago
@lucy9359 It was in response to attacking religion. It is not only a christian debate but rather debate that defends human life, Christians are at the forefront no doubt but there are other religious groups like the Muslims, and Jews who also condone this act. There are also secular groups that also take part in pro-life movements, its just that the public assumes that these groups are religious based.
cycy6 10 months ago
@cycy6 I must say it is to bad that we as humanity need a religous debate to respect the sanctamonious accord of human life. Why would we sacrifice a baby? If one stopped to ponder love for a brief moment would they not conclude their is nothing more sacred than to love an innocent child even if the woman was raped for it to be concieved?Even a bear will sacrifice and risk it's life to protect it's young. This teaches us something is within human nature that is not in the animal kingdom.
lucy9359 10 months ago
@lucy9359 Yeah that thing within human nature not found in the animal kingdom? It's called a rational mind. Oh and careers, school, dreams, hopes, relationships, MONEY. All these things influence a woman's decision to continue a pregnancy or not. It's not as simple as "bears sacrifice for their young, why can't we"? Well because when momma bear gets pregnant she doesn't have to worry about where her next paycheque is coming from, or how she's gonna finish college.
poopcat22 10 months ago
The government shouldn't legislate abortion. It is not an easy choice to make, and the government is far less apt to make it than the person whom it most affects.
I discourage it on the grounds of what a fetus can become, but I will not stop them.
TheLastCanadian 1 year ago
Iggy loves to talk out of both sides of his mouth. Does he honestly believe that the Liberals couldn't turn the vote if they wanted to? It was well orchestrated. Don't take my word for it, over 100 pieces of legislation have passed as a direct result of Liberals "not showing up for votes' over the past few years. Iggy not only had a "bad day" that day, he has had literally hundreds of "bad days".
ermos 1 year ago
I think Michael Ignatieff is actually not a bad guy, but he's not leadership material. Stephen Harper is a leader, whether you like it or not.
NodeRanvier 1 year ago
@NodeRanvier
I agree. But simply being a better leader is not enough when the policies and direction is just plainly wrong (One can argue of course) I mean Hitler was in many way a great leader, but in retrospect would we rather have his weak and pathetic opposition instead?
tkmmark 1 year ago
@tkmmark I don't agree with Harper on many things but overall I'm impressed with the way that he has handled a variety of issues, such as the gloabl economic collapse, Haiti, H1N1 (apparently we were the fastest nation to distribute the vaccine per person), his professional leadership on the world stage (G8, G20). I didn't vote in 2008 but in the next election Harper has my vote. As far as direction is concerned, nothing really changes dramatically on that front.
NodeRanvier 1 year ago
@NodeRanvier He was pressured to act during the economic collapse because the opposition holds the majority of the house and demanded stimulus spending. Remember that the finance minister flip flopped and Harper's natural inclination to fiscal conservatism had to be reversed. Also, Canada's banks are safe due to the banking regulations (that Harper despised) from Paul Martin.
tkmmark 1 year ago
@tkmmark The banking regulations were in place long before Paul Martin. I never gave Harper and Flahrety credit for the regulations. However I am impressed at how many jobs are being created. I'm an avid news reader and for the past few months (since July) Canada has created 403, 000 jobs ("What economists are saying about Canada's job numbers). This can be credited to the government. The reason for the reversal was because this was an unprecedented cirmucmstance, something I never thought...
NodeRanvier 1 year ago
@NodeRanvier I would see in my lifetime.
NodeRanvier 1 year ago
@NodeRanvier The banking regulations were in placed before yes, but I think the defining moment was when during Martin's years as Financial Minister, he resisted the opposition (Harper or Day) and the banks in their requests to merge the banks. As for jobs, well, that's great. But Canada wasn't hit as hard as many of the nations and let's remember why.
tkmmark 1 year ago
@tkmmark You make this sound as if the Liberals actually believed that economic stimulas was needed; they only pressured the government because they were opposing whatever action they happened to be taking. As soon as the Conservatives changed their minds and decided to include a stimulas package, they were heavily criticized for it BY the Liberals ( as well as the NDP). They are still criticized to this day by political pundits and Liberals for the current debt levels caused by the stimulas.
NodeRanvier 1 year ago
@NodeRanvier The Liberals and NDP oppose anything... Yes, you are right, this is illustrated with them complaining that the Tories are not doing anything, and then when Tories flipflopped and generated a deficit, they were complaining instead of helping Canadian realize that the deficit was necessary (though the money was still mismanaged... hockey games.... for example). But still, I'd not vote for the Conservative because it is clear that majority will allow them to be much more austere.
tkmmark 1 year ago
@NodeRanvier As for G8... If it were not because of the Liberal's ability to rein in on spending in the 90s without causing chaos and prevention of banks from self-destruction, countries like UK (now trying to replicate Canada's ability) would not have noticed, and Harper would have no grounds on pursuing fiscal austerity as the objective for G20 countries. I sometime imagine how he sleeps at night knowing that he has to take credit for the very economic polices he hated all his life.
tkmmark 1 year ago
@tkmmark
Lastly, there is the prorogation, messing with StatCan, Afghanistan affair then failure to comply with disclosing documents, failure to include family planning in the supposed maternal initiative, repealing the gun laws, etc... But of course, one can always argue those are good things in names of government autonomy, libertarianism, national security, religious morality, libertarianism respectively....
tkmmark 1 year ago
@tkmmark Well this is one of those things that I do not agree with Harper on. He should have allowed an inquiry for those Afghan documents. I find it incredibly frustrating when Liberals complain about this saying "It's an affront to democracy!" When in fact, Chretien did this many times, the last time being to avoid an inquiry to Adscam. Believe me I was a Liberal supporter back before Adscam, but I will not even think about voting for them again until Chretien is investigated for his actions.
NodeRanvier 1 year ago
@NodeRanvier Sure, and with the Adcam, the Liberals rightfully deserved their fall. There is sheer amount of snob and trickery. But this is politics, and people are selfish and this exist in all sides of the spectrum even NDP and Bloc. And in many ways since Chretien, the Liberals are equally fiscally conservative as the conservatives. But the Liberals are more keen to spend when necessary. Not to mention I find their social policies much more pragmatic.
tkmmark 1 year ago
@tkmmark They deserved more than a fall, but you know what bugged me the most? People actually still voted for them in the next election. That's when I realized, those people don't care about the nation, they only cared about being right. I can't imagine any other reason for voting for a party that steals the taxpayers money so blatantly. Maybe you can tell me?
NodeRanvier 1 year ago
@NodeRanvier
The Liberals are pretty much dead now, no need to wish them fall even more.
I was too young to know anything and vote then, and since the PC is gone, my instinct would have been to move to the NDP. People voted for Liberals out of remembrance of what the party has done in the past and out of fear of what a Canadian Alliance government could mean. Mulroney might have made PC blue... but overall, PC was still a party symbolizing the red tories.
tkmmark 1 year ago
@tkmmark Well, I have to respect your opinion even if I don't agree with it. I think we've exhausted the subject. Cheers.
NodeRanvier 1 year ago
@tkmmark RE: Social policies... indeed -- and 21st century. Take religious views out of politics. Harper? No thanks. Science? Yes please!
siriusisastar 11 months ago
@NodeRanvier Canada is quickly going over to the power hungry. Our politicians are no longer interested in representing our best interests, they only want power.
It's disgusting, and needs to stop. They have put ideology over the good of this nation and its people for far too long.
TheLastCanadian 1 year ago
@TheLastCanadian Some politicians are like this yes, but not all. I believe there are a lot of well meaning MP's who truly believe in betterinng the country. However for many politicians and voters it's now become a game (i.e. most of the Liberal Party). Does Ignatieff stand for anything that really distinguishes himself from Harper? No, he just wants to have the title of Prime Minister.
NodeRanvier 1 year ago
@tkmmark I do not think abortion is something that should be promoted to other countries, especially when we are so undecided on this issue as a Nation. The Gun registry is something I never agreed with. By the way, you didn't mention anything about the governments response to the Haiti earthquake which was praised internationally and their response to the H1N1 epidemic. Of course you wouldn't though. National policy is too important to leave to left and right ideologues.
NodeRanvier 1 year ago
@NodeRanvier Well I didn't mention anything because I was away in Europe at that time as I am now and I wasn't really following. Though Haiti is the way it is right now thanks to neoliberal agenda forced into it since Raegan and continued through Clinton not to mention the meddling with their only one truly democratic election of 1991.
tkmmark 1 year ago
So how can something be a question of human rights but not a moral question as well? You can't have REAL human rights unless they are grounded on natural law (which entails a moral code). You can have synthetic rights that have been socially fabricated by the society, but these aren't the same as real natural human rights.
JohananRaatz 1 year ago
@sweiland75 Yeah sorry but ignoring debate is not a logical argument. Then again this is hardly about logic for you is it?
And as for "your business" we've had plenty of idiots from Canada Europe and elsewhere getting into our business in the US so sorry if they get to poke their nose into our business we get to do likewise.
JohananRaatz 1 year ago
@sweiland75 ROFL!
Ok tell me this. Why should average Canadians have to pay for other Canadians to be able to chop up their kids for free? I mean at least if they are going to do it shouldn't they do it out of their own pockets? I have relatives up their and they don't like this one bit.
JohananRaatz 1 year ago
@sweiland75 Little trouble with that. See this Yankee also happens to be an imperialist! (culturally and otherwise) And I wish to impose prenatal justice up north! :)~
JohananRaatz 1 year ago
@sweiland75 Scary? LOL So what? Are you afraid some moral scum will not have their precious little right to chop their kids or something? ROFL
Give it a rest. Harper is cool. Cheers from America!
JohananRaatz 1 year ago