@mamainmancj Hefty claim about eternal punishment, where's tbe evidence? And how can you justify eternal punishment for one lifetime? Kinda unbalanced.
Denying God is only going to be possible until you die then you'll stand before Him and give an account of every sin you've ever committed and without the righteousness of Jesus Christ you will be cast into the lake which burns with fire forever. Repent turn from sin and trust alone in Jesus Christ.
@OutnumberedByZombies Although you can't write an English sentence correctly, I believe I understand your point. What questions did the atheists not answer?
The host doesn't understand evolution, its not the strong eats the weak, its survival of the fittest. Survival of the fittest is solely interested in the ability to procreate and has nothing to do with killing others. Dogs fight for territory but rarely fight to the death, it's counterproductive. As for the moral basis, it seems only christians think that without the bible they would have the right to do anything, i once again say "christians are morally corrupt, they need to be controlled"
@WaltonSauce I tell you what kid, keep on going the way you are and see where it leads you, i hope you have a good life, comparing islam with True Christianity is like comparing bananas and oranges as in islam they die and commit suicide for the moon-god as they are decieved. As for Christ, He died for your sins and mine and He calls Himself the Way, the Truth and the Life, and no man comes to the Father but by Him. As for WW2, they killed the Jews that have been in Satan's aim for 6000 yrs now
"You keep going where you are and see where it leads you" Is that a threat?
So saying others aren't true christians? How exactly do you define true christians, you're using a fallacy called no true scotsman. I thought anyone who accepted christ could go to heaven (if it exists). So what makes your christianity so good? Islam has just as much evidence as your "True Christianity" NONE. How do you know you are not being decieved?
@Serge1965 How do you know that god isn't evil and Satan is the good one but God is tricking you into believing he is good? In the bible God killed more people. But this all boils down to evidence, of which, you have none. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. And by the way Islam worship the same God of Abraham as you, not some moon-god as you put it, You're ignorance is truly unmatched. Jews in satan's aim? I thought the bible says the jews are God's chosen people?
@WaltonSauce Those He calls: Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. (Romans 8:30) Islam has a false Jesus and was invented by man 600-700 yrs after the only Jesus Christ that ever existed and they unconsciiously worship the moon-god. Their god hates everyone who does not submit to him, wants families to let their sons explode for his cause while my God loves the world so much that cted
@WaltonSauce He gave His only begotten Son so that WHOEVERbelieves in Him(Jesus) shall not perish but have eternal life(John 3:16) God gave Himself to us instead of their allah taking from them. How do i know that my God is not evil? Because when you take a break and take a cold hard look at yourself and stop comparing yourself to others that are just as fallable as you (because none of us are perfect) and start comparing yourself with Christ and in the Light of the Perfect Standards of cted
@WaltonSauce Holy Justice, in the mirror of the 10 commandments and realize that God will judge according to the perfection of His Law, you then see your need of being saved from a sure hell if you don't know Christ in personal relationship because His pardon is already there and free to take by faith, by trust in Him, not in your capacity to please Him because none of us can. His Blood was shed to pay your debt, mine and the debt of every human being on the planet but few know this
Ah yes the 10 commandments, the first 4 of which are of God being jealous. Which version of the ten commandments do you follow? Exodus 20:1-17 or Exodus 34:12-26, which of the apostles got it right? Matthew 19:17-19, Mark 10:19 or Luke 18:20
@WaltonSauce Finally, you need to ask Him to be baptized by His Spirit (Luke 11:13) to grasp Scriptue that's spiritually discerned or they'll never make sense to u, God did order to kill nations that were sacrificing theur babies to demons and to protect the Messianic Line of Jesus Christ from Satan's attemps all throughout the OT to save us from hell, was He supposed to let them continue their child sacrifices to false gods? Jews are still His chosen people and the Church is the Bride of Christ
@WaltonSauce One more thing, for your insults i answer Jesus bless you abundantly : Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. (Matthew 5:10-12)
So you're just going to keep quoting the Bible eh? Without even being able to prove it actually happened. And believe or God will judge you? Pascal's Wager mate, what if you're wrong and Islam is the true religion? or Hinduism or Norse.
Islam has a false jesus invented by man? I put it to you your Jesus was invented by man. Why should anyone believe what is written in the Bible? Iron age fairy tales. Quoting the Bible will get you no-where, have you read anything other than it?
@ walton sauce, u need to be baptized not by water but by the Holy Spirit from above(Luke 11:13) to understand the Word of God which is spiritually diecerned (1 Corint 2:14) otherwise, the Word will cut you in pieces for it is a double edged Sword (Hebrews 4:12-13) You poor deceived kid, those of us who are saved are not under the law but under the Grace found in the New Testament and by displaying your ignorance of the context in the OT, your getting yourself in quicksand as u don't get it
You believe in unicorns, that it is OK to stone children and that rape victims must marry the rapist. I don't know what sort of level of stupidity you have to sink to when you find ANY of that good. What is the context of "God sent bears to kill 42 children" your ignorance of reality is astonishing. Again you quote the bible, yet have nothing to show why I should believe it. Again it's just a book.
@WaltonSauce For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. Not a threat kid, another promise, you are cutting youself spiritually from God while you foolishly think
You are foolishly cutting yourself from reality while you don't think. Can you actually think for yourself? Or do you just accept what the bible says because it is the bible?
1 Peter 3:16 why do you believe the Bible is true? So far you have demonstrated nothing other than "Lots of other people believe it is"
There's this thing called evidence, of which, you have none. And again why should I believe anthing you say? What proof do you have that the word of god will kill me?
@WaltonSauce thyou are winning a debate thatyou've lost already, you are free to mock His Word and not grasp the full context of the Whole councel of the 66 books to pursue your lusts and perish with your sins but you are not on the winning team now as Satan has you tight in his grip.
@WaltonSauce Who do you think owns the music and the film industries? Who do you think owns all the money in this world? I guess evil suddenly vanished from the face of theearth in your world? Why do artists sign blood contracts with him? Since you think you know something about the Bible, how about reading Matthew 4:1-11 for a change?
@WaltonSauce You should see how many artists and politicians are led by him, satanists are running this world kiddow and they will perish with their stupidity
@WaltonSauce I believe the Word of God to be inherent and infallable, that unicorns did exist as they were rhinos who has a unique horn and that God says what He means and means what He says, why do u believe in the unproven gazillions of unseen yrs? This is not science, it is fary tales, are you going to splurge more pseudo-scientific religious verses from your fary tale books even if Mary Schweitzer from Montana U killed evoltion with a 70 million yr old T REX with soft tissue and blood cells?
So you're going to change the definition of unicorn until it makes sense. And make up a number Gazillion omfg. The claims of those creationists is suspect because, in their book, which was published in 1998, they claimed that the "unfossilized" dinosaur bones would undergo extensive tests to validate their "unfossilizedness." As to date, 2011, no results have yet to be published. So they have not proven they were unfossilized only asserted it.
@Serge1965 None of the "unfossilized" bones have ever been examined by a reputable dinosaur palaeontologist... John Horner or Phil Currie, for example. This fact alone makes the entire claim suspect. None of the pictures in their book, which they claim to be "unfossilized," actually appear to be "unfossilized" to the trained eye.
@Serge1965 These creationists readily admit in their book that, at one point in their "adventure," they were fooled by a piece of driftwood, thinking it was a dinosaur bone. A real, scientifically trained eye would not have been fooled as easily as they were.
@Serge1965 These creationists readily admit that they did not concentrate entirely on the Cretaceous Lipscomb Bone Bed, in which they did find completely fossilized duckbill dinosaur bones. They admit to digging through several layers of mud and permafrost, where they found what they called "unfossilized" dinosaur bones. Seeing as how mastodon and mammoth bones are common in permafrost layers, it is safe to assume this is what these creationists actually found, not dinosaur bones.
Mastodon and mammoth bones commonly do not show the same level of fossilization that heavily permineralized dinosaur bones do. To the untrained creationist eye, these bones would easily be mistaken for dinosaur bones.
@Serge1965 I could just as easily say you need to be washed with special water to see the truth in ANY book, then claim you have not been washed and so cannot see the truth.
"The word will cut you to pieces with a 2 edged sword" back to the threats, how pathetic. If you are not going to have a reasonable discussion then how do you expect anyone to take you seriously?
And saying that "you have to be baptised to understand scripture". is just an attempt to avoid criticism, guess what, we have something called free speech, nothing is exempt from criticism anymore, no matter what excuse you come up with.
@Serge1965 which is heresy since it is written: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Ephes. 2:8-9) and that to be saved, all that is required is written in the salvation plan here: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (Romans 10:9) God saves in a one moment miracle and sanctifies
@WaltonSauce Right now, with the way you investigate in atheistic websites, you would not be able to make the difference between a camel knee and Palm tree if you were to see one, your mindset is all wrong as you want to prove reality to be non-existent, Christ is a solid court case filled, packed with solid evidence, only fools say that there is no God
@WaltonSauce There is so much evidence woking against you kid that you have no idea Who you are dealing with there is far more evidence for Christ than there is for your deceitful life but hey, you are young and can still study on for a while until the evidence that is before you jumps in your face and shouts BOOOOO! Study kiddow, study
The idea that aspects of nature are too complex to have happened by chance (or more aptly natural processes if we wish to avoid straw men) is a fallacy of argument from ignorance, or even willful ignorance, in the case where the theist also has to reject what we already know about the facts of Darwinian evolution. It is essentially tantamount to the statement “I can't think how it could have happened, therefore God did it!”
Also if complex means design, is you god not complex, who designed God?
@autopsy87 cool so morals are man made law then means nothing why folllow a law that means nothing going to where it started who taught morals in the first place where did it come from (god taught it to us in the begining so laws do mean somthing) but if there is no god i can go skin a baby alive tomorrow and realy it wont mean a thing. Most laws were made around the the laws of God. To not have God why follow laws?, because there is no right or wrong act you can do as you please
morals ARE man made. you think mans morality comes from the bible? you need a book to tell you not to kill or steal? 1st thing you have to do is prove your god exists, which coincidentally cant be done without shedding any doubt that he might not be real. therein lies the problem with faith. faith doesnt lead you to truth, it leads you to what you WANT to believe. thats religion. it was made from ignorance to provide shallow comfort and explain a world that couldnt be understood at the time.
@autopsy87 we defiantly have a gut feeling of evil with witnessing sick kind of acts. Its not instinct when you get that gut wrenching feeling of wrong, because instinct is for survival. animals don't have that sort of a working also if there is no god then we shouldn't complain about any type of crime because its not wrong, and if it is why?
@autopsy87 so there for its ok to do what we want whenever we want. would you condone any sick act? something like skin a baby alive if this is wrong then why? or is it something that is not wrong or right so it doesn't matter. Serial killers can keep going because it's not wrong. so no one has the right to complain what happens or how dreadful things are.
@rubberglovesnz right and wrong are points of view. There is no universal standard for them. Even if there was, your god fails to enforce his own morality. your god doesnt stop serial killers, humans do. your god has the power to annihilate all evil and suffering but for some reason thinks its better for his favorite creations to suffer a life on earth and an eternity of hellfire. thats what I would define as immorality. eternal punishment is far more sick than skinning a baby.
@autopsy87 God fails to enforce his own morality no as you said in one of your statements its freewill what joy would he get if we were mindless robots. you dont belive in God so why care what happened its a bit hypocritical isnt it. MAN did evil and not God. We have freedom of choice so what evils we do we will pay in the end. If you truely look at my points with good and evil and look deeply at what im trying to show you, then maybe your eyes will be opend.
@rubberglovesnz i have heard this argument many times. i spent the first 22 years of my life at church, at christian schools, and raised by a christian family. you have yet to prove that your god even exists, let alone that he created mans morality. if you need scriptures from the bronze age to tell you that its wrong to torture, murder, and steal, then whether or not god is real is the least of your problems.
@autopsy87 would of been some one he didnt care. put the story short God dosent approve of people sacrificeing others and it was one way that he would never do it again. Read all of Isaiah 45, if you made somthinglittle living and it turned around and hated you and spat in your face you would crush it wouldnt you!? He has more patients that both of us we couldn't even begin to cope.Most of the scriptures you put down are old testament which is a strict law.
old testament is still the god of the new testament. my point is that if god is perfect and unchanging, his laws reflect what any descent man today would call "immorality". also, the old testament argument your using is invalid. christians thrive on picking and choosing what they want to believe. they want to believe a verse in leviticus that says gays should be put to death, but in the next chapter it demands the death of rebellious kids. let alone the 10 commandments they cherish.so much.
@autopsy87 we are now no longer bound by the law because Jesus brought us grace and mercy. If we truly repent we will be forgiven but only with true repentance being truly sory for what we have done not hypocrits the warnings in the bible are very clear. God loves you turn your ways there is good and evil. you still havn't answered the question as to why if there is no such thing as evil why is it bad to do realy bad acts? there is no evil so why?
@rubberglovesnz but jesus himself said " i came not to abolish the law, but to fulfill it" Matthew 5:17. but if god is indeed unchanging, and he has to be in order to be perfect, why is there such a big difference in his laws from old testament to new testament. I dont believe in good or evil in the biblical sense. I believe in right and wrong. Things are wrong because we know them to be wrong. Empathy is an evolutionary trait.
@autopsy87 Jesus was the only One Who was able to fulfill the whole lettrer of the law, even the sacrifices of rams and goats did not cover for all the sins as they were a shadow of things to come, the Law was a Tutor to bring people to the undeserved Grace found in the New Testament, some sort of mirror where man stops comparing himself with other fallable men but starts comparing Himself with the Highest and Perfect Standards of a Holy and Almighty God, no one on the earth is able to even
so your god sacrificed himself to himself when he knew all he had to do was make it perfect from the beginning. meanwhile, human souls (his most prized and loved of all creation) are burning for eternity in this game hes playing with a devil he could destroy. Why is blood sacrifice necessary? Dont you find this very morbid and unnecessary? he created the universe with the blink of an eye, yet he requires blood to forgive people? how much more idiocy do you need to realize the truth. its not real
@autopsy87 wel my freind you are quite right he didnt come to change the law but we dont have to sacrifice cows or other animals for every sin we do and remember it every year plus new ones we have done, we still have to follow the law as best we can, but if we stuff up we dont need to be stone to death or sacrifice things to say sorry we have to be genuinely sorry not a token effort you cant do what you like and ask for forgivness it dosen't work that way. being bound to the law and following
@rubberglovesnz but wouldnt you agree from your knowledge and teaching that disbelief is the only unpardonable sin next to blasphemy, which stems from nonbelief.
@autopsy87 If you accept him into your heart you are saved as long as it is genuine he say on judgment day he will examin your heart if you are genuine YOU WILL BE SAVED what happens is you become born again you leave your old life behind and live again on that path you start again with any stuff ups you have to be genuinly sorry not pretend to be forgive and you will be forgiven your heart is the key god bless you i got to have tea if you want to think about it or have more questions ask
@autopsy87 being bound to the law and following the law are two diffrent things. he administered to the dead and took the keys from hell so those that were bound by law could go to heaven most id say would have accepted him. there is no right or wrong if there is no good or evil. there are other records from romans other than the bible that describe the hugely thick curtain riping from top to bottom and of a great darkness that fell at the time of Jesuses death
yet no mention of the dead rising and walking the streets when jesus was resurrected as mentioned in Matthew 27:52-53. nor of jesus starting a riot during the passover in the temple. nor of jesus resurrecting or "ascending" into heaven which we now know today to be impossible. if jesus had a body of flesh, like it says he did, then he would have died in space. we also know that heaven must be a spiritual state and not in the sky somewhere. the New T is 2k years old. 1500 years before science.
@autopsy87 i have a vid of someone been risen from the dead in africa in my favorates have a look easy to say fake but the files all over him and complexion say it all.if you look at the story of the tower of bable or babalon which has been un covered in i think bagdad the story says they built it to reach heaven.
@autopsy87 The very idea seem stupid and impossable which i can tell you it is not the top was filled with corts crystals as a spiritual channelin which witchcraft use to communicate or channel spirits. that is why it came down. and heaven a is spiritual place that can hold both spirt and bodly form.
@rubberglovesnz it would be possible on earth with or without god to "do what we want". its called freewill. However thanks to MAN and not god, laws are in place to make sure if anyone wrongs you, you can take action and seek justice. Of course i dont condone sick acts. I believe everyone can do whatever they want to do as long as they dont directly effect the freedoms of others. this includes murder, theft, and quite a few things your god condoned in the old testament.
@autopsy87 why is sick acts bad if there is no such thing as good or evil why would anyone care if any one did sick acts or i cann chain someone up because i want to not such thing as evil sowho cares wouldnt want to follow laws because i can do what i like. If theres no evil or dont complain if someone does somthing bad to you because there is no such thing as a bad act its there freewill. If its MAN made who cares.
@rubberglovesnz heres your gods morality: Hosea 13:16, Hosea 9:11-16, Isaiah 45:7, Deuteronomy 20:10-14, Judges 11:29-40, Deuteronomy 13:13-19, Leviticus 20:9. and of course the messiahs stance on slavery. 1 Timothy 6:1-2, Ephesians 6:5. your unchanging "all loving, just, and moral" god is anything but. thats just a few verses that show that you and i are both more moral than the character who supposedly created our morality. and yet, you cant prove god, let alone that he made morality.
@autopsy87 i dont have to prove anything you are yet to prove God doesn't exist, and your walk is your own walk in life. If one country goes to war does not the prisoners taken go to a slavery of sorts most of what you describe in the scriptures is a lot more merciful than what those people would have done if it was the other way around in cluding eating people child sacrifice, oh by the way te one in judges was a pride filled and was taught a lesson so it happend to teach him a lesson or it
if i dont believe something is real, and i dont believe it ever existed... how could i prove it never existed? there is no evidence for something that never existed. the burden is yours if you believe he is real and exists. also... you think that what happened to Jephthah in judges was right? his daughter roamed for two months in the mountains because of her father, then she died a virgin. God could at any point annihilate sin. every moment that he refuses to allows for more suffering.
@autopsy87 then you take away freewill which i said he will never interfear with if it wasnt going to be her then it would have been someone else and it would have kept hapening, the mistake was his own not Gods, he chose to sacrifice not God, and God did not approve at all. can you answer that question why is doing evil wrong?
i believe in right and wrong. because right and wrong are points of view. People have a sense of right and wrong, it is embedded in everyone as an evolutionary trait. Just like wild animals protect their young. This is the reason we invented religion and politics. We want people to expect, and think bad things are going to happen if they do something wrong. Your god allows for rapists, murderers, and thiefs a second chance. Yet the only unforgivable sin is non belief. is that good? moral? just?
@autopsy87 obey the 10 commandments let alone the 613 commandments, precepts and ordinances contained in the Law of Moses so God provided Grace through faith in Jesus Christ even from the Old Testament as Abraham, before the Law came to Moses, received the promise by faith that God counted him as righteousness. For God so loved the worlds, that He GAVEHis only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shallnot perish but have eternal life (John 3:16) it is a free gift of pardon already availabl
@Serge1965 and santa clause can deliver presents to every house in the world all in 1 night!! believe in what im saying for it will mean a gift! the words of a book long known to be false mean nothing. when you open your eyes and realize that this life is probably the only one you get, u can start to live it to the fullest. i compare it to a slave unchaining his own shackles and setting out to be a free man. live a good moral life without magic and mysticism, which is so far outdated.
@autopsy87 Actually, you are the one in shackles here as yiou are the prisoner of many religions, i am a Jesus Freak and unashamed of it but if there is one thing pal, i am free from religiosity having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ while atheism is recognized by the state of wisconsin as the religion of the convict and the secular humanists declared in their manifesto that secular humanism is a religion saying that religious humanists this and that etc. you are surrounded by
@Serge1965 atheism is a religion? then not collecting stamps is a hobby? call it what you will, atheism has no dogma, no church, no bible, and no ideology. all it says is "i dont believe in a particular god". if your a "jesus freak" then you too are an atheist in the fact that you dont believe in islam, hinduism, or buddism. atheists believe many different things, come from many different walks of life. all it means is they agree that there is no evidence for a particular deity.
@autopsy87 Hey, some convicts draged prison officials to court sio that their religion of atheism would be respoected and recognized as such, if you disagree with your bros in the faith, you go tell them. No need to believe in a Higher Being to be a religious freak, all that is required is to defend your unbelief with religious zeale which is what we observe with the fanaticism (another ism!) observed in the atheistic church.
@autopsy87 atheism, agnosticism, eugenism, collectivism, relativism and behaviorism and you would think that i'm the religious nut here??? Actually, there is far more evidence for Christ than there is for the pseudo science of evolution inspired by the racist ideology found in Eugenism
@autopsy87 there are many man made religions in this world such as those you mentioned but their human leaders are all dead and buried and you can still be a good believer in those religions without the leader present. In the case of Christ, it is different for without following the Living and risen Lord, everything would crumble, Food for thought...without Him, you cannot be a Christian nor enter His rest
@Serge1965 according to evidence, common sense, and rational thought, if jesus ever did exist... then he is dust somewhere. If he is alive, then he is the first person in recorded human history to survive for 2000 years. All of your ideology is based on a book written in the bronze age hundreds of years before science. Back in the days when we thought the earth was flat, and that spitting on a wound cured it.
@autopsy87 You have no idea how in the dark u are as there is more evidence for Him than for you actually, Jesus Christ wasn't just a man, He is GOD ALMIGHTY, the Bible isn,t just a book from the bronze age, it is 66 BOOKS penned by 40 men of various backgrounds, written over a 1500 years span in 3 languages, in various cities and countries by kings, prophets, fishermen, tax collector, apostles and disciples. Christ is a solid court case with overwhelming evidence for all who dare to investigate
66 books by 40 men over 1500 years, but none of them centemporary, none of them eye-witnesses. And besides, no matter how many times a lie is repeated or how many people believe it, it never becomes true. Evidence is all that matters, I'll grant you Jesus could have existed, but you have to prove he was God as you say and prove that God exists.
@WaltonSauce The error here is that you see the Bible as an Ancient Book as part of time but what you don't grasp is that those 66 books are TIMELESS as they are inspired from God Himself who lives in eternity, God is provable by merely looking outside the window at nature or even in every body cells where there is more than enough design shouting DESIGNER! I don't even have to prove a thing to you about this but i can assure you that everyone who has done their homework and investigated ...
@WaltonSauce seriously the claims of Christ such as when He said that He was the Almighty Revelation 1:8 and all the names and places names in both the New and Old Testament, in archeology and even in secular history, came to face an overwhelming mountain of Factual evidence that was inevitable and as skeptics, became followers of Christ afterwards. It is not my job to convince you, i have don my own homework and am more than confident in what i know, when you appear before Christ, and you will,
@WaltonSauce with holes in His hands and feet. We got the Septuagint (300 BC) the Dead Sea scrolls 250-300 BC), the precise retranscription method by the Massoretes, 25000 manuscripts for the New Testament, 92 000 quotes outside the Biblical reference able to reconstruct the whole NT except for 3 verses, 10 000 Latin Vulgates, i don't know how many codexes, more than 5000 archeological finds attesting both the OT and NT names of personages and place names, 21 kings named in order and precise
Hands and feet? only his hands were nailed. And evolution is not pseudoscience, change over time happens, if a change gives an adavantage, the organism with it can reproduce more, A vulgate is just a 4th century translation of the bible. 5000 finds that confirm place names? Yet no Sodom, Gomorragh or Nazareth which is not mentioned in any jewish sources earlier than the 3rd century, hence not contempary. Archaeological finds at Naz show it ended around 720BC
@WaltonSauce letters that match the same 21 kings in secular history. the sumerian king list that gives a list of kings with great longevity prior to a flood and after which flood the longevity decreased and a mention of the Most High coming down on the earth, empirical science showing evidence of Design so stinking complex in every body cells that it yells DESIGN AND DESIGNER, i mean, If you feel like denying a 45 footer with both hands while u stand on the middle of the road...
@WaltonSauce In case evolution was your idol to worship and that you'd feel like boasting about the progress of your pseudo science, just think that the Design in your cells makes the stinking space station and shuttles look idiotic..make your coffee stronger and take your responsibilities with the destiny of your eternal soul, it is not my job to convict you, it is God that draws men unto Himself (John 6:44) and the Holy Spirit convicts that person (John 16:8). now, you'd be without excuses
@WaltonSauce Try not to use the lame excuse that Serge1965 did not provide you with the evidence thatYOU demanded, the Lord will look at you and ask you why you did not seek Him on your own, He is not after your religious performances, He is after your heart.
I have done my homework, I have investigated. The difference between you and me...I have investigated both sides, I regularly watched Hovind, WOTM and VFX as well as Tf00t RRS etc. Have you ever seriously considered the other sides, have you considered other religions such as Islam (same god btw), Judaism? etc
This all boils down to one thing, evidence. You assume that the bible is correct without even taking the time to do the research you claim, and the blatantly wrong claims in it
@WaltonSauce Have you checked Simon Greenleaf and his solid court case? Or maybe our contemporary apologist named Josh MacDowel with His book called The New evidence that demands a Verdict? The problem with you atheist is that you will go to every source which is fine but in the wrong mindset, if you alreaduy decided that Christ was an insul to the sovereignty of your mind, although i presented you the fruits of my own homework, you would not believe nor would you even believe if Christ Himself
Josh Mcdowell isn't a contempary he wasn't living at the same time as Jesus, I suggest you look up the term. It does not yell design and designer.
Not all claims made by the Old testament are in dispute - only the extraordinary claims, such as the Garden of Eden, or Noah's ark., to which the dead sea scrolls make no mention.
And as for Simon Greenleaf have you read Howard Richard Packham's critique?
The Septuagint is just a greek translation of the Hebrew bible.
@WaltonSauce Are you doing this on purpose? i said our contemporary apologist Josh Mcdowell, do you even know how to read and write or are u hiring anyone to type your messages? And if you knew how to read, i said that the empirical science shows evidence of design and of a Designer by implication when you look at the design in the cell, look, i don't have time to play with kids, do some serious homework on your own for yourself, we'lll talk afterwards..Stop listening to man, listen to God.
What evidence of a designer? no trademark stamp, nothing at all. We have many many theories of Abiogenesis all of which are perfectly reasonable and do not require a designer, even if you could prove a designer, it could be Odin, FSM, Kronos or whoever.
@WaltonSauce Did i hear:What proof of a Designer? Chiche, you really do it on purpose..what am i gonna do with you? Look young man, when you have coded language(DNA) that is being translated into another code of letters(RNA) by a translating machine to sens a coded messsage to all kinds of bio-molecular machines to do their jobs in the cell as in a miniature car factory with robots, you are in the presence of DESIGN and that my young counterpart is counter-intuitive to RANDUMBNESS, u kapish yet?
Not all systems which are known to represent information (a.k.a. code) were known to have been created by a designer. For example, the solar system can be viewed as a system which encodes information, such as the length of a day or the period in which one might harvest crops, or the tidal calendar. While this coded information provides data relevant to the daily lives of the inhabitants of this planet, it is by no means apparent that this information was created by a designer.
@WaltonSauce God created the sun, the moon the stars and the universe by His Word and the laws of physics that allow you to be a conscious observer on the earth that is sustained by so much fine tuning that one single move on any scale would make us disppear in an instant. If you knbew why you are in the presence of religious atheist teachers, you would understand that they hate God and love religion, their own satanic religion called secular humanism, study young man and think outside their box
Religious Atheist Teachers? Atheism is no more a religion than bald a hair colour or being healthy is a disease. And as I said, not at school. And my age has no bearing on the veracity of my argument. Would never bost about education? This is from the man who said that because I am apparently a schoolchild I am therefore wrong? Hypocrite. You made a statement about my education, I corrected you, no boasting there.
[mass noun] the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power , especially a personal God or gods:ideas about the relationship between science and religion [count noun] a particular system of faith and worship:the world's great religions
Atheism is simply the lack of belief in a God or other god's.
@WaltonSauce Study on kiddow, study on, you prefer listening to atheist deceived people that cannot prove the unseen billions of years and either they know it or not, what they teach is from eugenism and satanism, you are just starting your life and think you know a thing or 2 for you were trained to fit in the mold, it remais that atheism and secular humanism are religiosities whether they are found in a dictionary or not for their followerrs defend their unbelief with religious zeale so
@WaltonSauce there is no need to worship a Deity to be a religious person, you only need to be religiously convinced and religiously defending your position to be a religious freak and i am the one here that has only a personal relationship with someone while on the other hand, atheists and secular humanists are no better than those who meet in Scientology , Jehovah's witnesses' , Mormon assemblies, you all deny the Deity of Christ
Sorry, we don't believe Satan exists either, and as for eugenism, I don't agree with eugenics at any level. Religious zeal? you seem to be the only one showing any. Seeing as you think my age is a factor in atheism what about older atheists? I don't deny the deity of christ I simply ask for evidence, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. You see we can prove the "unseen billions of years" we have this thing called evidence, Fossil record, cosmology etc. You deny that.
When you tink about why you do not believe in Zeus, Thor, Krishna or Beowa. The same reason is why I do not believe in your god, you have no evidence. The religions of the world cannot all be right since they are mutually exclusive, but they can all be wrong.
@WaltonSauce Because your zeus, thor, Krishna or bowa are either simply part of the greek myths or dead and buried in the case of krishna while Jesus Christ was personally known by the apostles and disciples that He had, He was born in Bethgleem, lived in Nazareth, walked the shores of Galilea, had a ministry of 3 yrs where he performed miracles before witnesses, was crucified by the Romans and that is verifiable, died, rose again before 500 witnesses at 1 place, stayed 40 days with disciples
@WaltonSauce afterwards and ascended back to heaven where He came from in the first place. His body has never ever been found by anyone yet, no, not even CSI Miami or NY...
So the fact no body has been found proves he ascended to heaven? There are no frost giants destroying earth, Thor keeps away frost giants, therefore Thor exists. Loads of people's bodies have not been found, is that proof they were not all taken to heaven, and again any evidence of this, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. You have shown no evidence. More than 500 people claimed to have been abducted by aliens, seen bigfoot or had
@WaltonSauce We know from history that the characters you named were myths while we also know from Historical evidence outside the Bible that Christ is real that the evidence found in archeology in Israel by over 5000 sites gives even more credibility to the Biblical account than for any other historical figure, try comparing the evidenmce for Caesar and the evidence for Christ, forget your myths for a second and do some real investigating and see for yourself if you are capable...
Even if you can prove christ existed you can't prove he was the son of god as you claim. Those archeological digs only prove that the cities mentioned in the bible existed, even though, Sodom, Gomorragh have not yet been found, and Nazareth was shown to be uninhabited at the time. In 2000 years when people read about spiderman and find New York in archeological digs, will the be justified the belief he is real? As for Caesar we have so so much more evidence for his existence such as:
@WaltonSauce Scriptures are clear from the Old Testament up to the New Testament in prophecy that God had a son and that His son is also God. and i don,t care what source of historical data you have, it is erroneus, Sodom and Gomorrah have been found and Nazreth is exactly today where it was at the time Jesus was born but you can still watch spiderman and lady gaga if that level of I.Q. suits you best, i mean when i was your age, i was still playing nintendo games, study on kiddow, study on...
@Serge1965 Sodom and Gomorrah have not been discovered, and I didn't say that Nazareth hadn't been unearthed, but it had been shown that it was uninhabited after 720BC and is not mentioned in any jewish scripts earlier than 3AD and it was not inhabited until 2AD. You clearly didn't understand my Spiderman metaphor, allow me to use another example, In 200 years if people read about james bond, and then discover London, MI6 etc used to exist at the same time, is that evidence bond existed?
Many contemporary writings about him, carvings of him carved in his lifetime, coins with his face, dated to the time he existed. Caesar was an eyewitness to many of the events he describes in his commentaries. He wrote not for posterity but to have an immediate impact on the power players in Rome as he schemed to advance his own career. The elapsed time between the wars and Caesar's own writing was a matter of months or at most a few years.
@WaltonSauce You have it all wrong kiddow, the earliest writing about Caesar was written 1000 years after Caesars life in the Gaelic wars, i don,t know who is your teacher but he is an idiot who knows nothing about history, the writings of teh NT came as early as 52 AD and earlier and for the NT everything was compiled by 94 AD which is far less than 1000 years for Caesars, Caesar's Gaelic wars have maybe what 6-10 reliable copies while the New Testament has 25 000 manuscripts and 92 000 quotes
You've pulled that '1000 years after Caesars existence' quote straight out of your ass like most of your answers. Sodom and Gomorrah? They found a cave and evidence of an earthquake. All these numbers you are coming up with have been pulled straight out of no-where. Christ is not a solid court case, it's not even a flimsy one, it is simply wishful thinking. The elapsed time between the wars and Caesar's own writing was a matter of months or at most a few years.
In contrast, the elapsed time between the gospel reports and the supposed events that they describe is at least 40 years for 'Mark' and 60-70 years for the other three Gospels.
Even if some aspects of the bible can be proved as historically accurate, that does not necessarily make the claims about Jesus or claims attributed to Jesus true. For instance, we have a large body of empirical evidence that George Washington was a real person, but that doesn't mean the story about him cutting down a cherry tree is necessarily true.
@WaltonSauce ...92 000 quotes by the early church fathers, outside the Bible, able to reconstruct the entire New Testament at the exception of 3 verses so start studying where they teach the truth at least...
@Serge1965 So you quite clearly made that 1000 years thing up. 92000 quotes from early church fathers, where do you get your information and figures? 52 AD? Didn't jesus die in 36 AD therefore it wasn't contemporary? The authorship of most of the gospels is unknown and the names were tacked on by the church later on. And I don't say there is no God, I say there is insufficient evidence to say there is. I dont know where you get all this, but you are clearly making most of it up Ad Hoc.
@WaltonSauce The New Testament is in the Old Testament concealed and the Old Testament is the New Testament, revealed and all 66 books of the Bible penned by 40 different guys over a period of 1500 years are coherent by Jesus Christ from start to finish so find a better excuse than hearsay kiddow, you are not convincing anyone with that one and all texts were in by 90 AD by the way not 110 AD as your false teachers or scholars teach
The first two chapters of Genesis contradict each other on the creation of man. Gen 1:26 Man was created on the sixth day. Notice the first 5 days god was busy creating animals and plants. Gen 2:4-7 Man was created right from the start.
In the gospels, Matthew, Mark and Luke, Jesus, during the Passover, goes to the temple and clears out the merchants in the temple courtyard. this occurs at towards the end of his ministry, closer to the time of his death. However, in the book of John, Jesus does this "temple cleansing" at the beginning of his ministry. There is an obvious contradiction here regarding the time of this particular event.
Even if there were 92000 quotes outside the Bible, they were probably talking about the Bible. You could collect 92000 quotes by some people and recreate any book with that amount. And how do quotes prove it happened exactly? If they were early church fathers they clearly believed it all and had already read the Bible, stop with the Ad Hoc points, start with actual evidence instead of making stuff up.
@WaltonSauce Why would the early church fathers waste their time on 92000 quotes if they wer enot true or revealing what is really there in the New Testament all along? it simply corroborates the precision and authenticity of the Holy Writ and if you knew anything whatsoever about historical records, you would understand the body of evidfence in those 92 000 quotes added to 25 000 manuscripts attesting the NT, but i guess your secular history is no longer valid according to your standards
Because they believed they were true, no matter how many people belief something it doesn't become true, and besides, where are you getting these numbers?
And even if they were these quotes, you still haven't proven the existence of your God.
@WaltonSauce of evaluation that does not even come close to what the Bible holds for the OT with the Septuagint(300 AD) the Dead Sea scrolls (250-300 AD) , the 25 000 manuscripts and parchmints for the NT and the 10000 Latin Vulgates and the codexes, try and find something that significant for any emperor or earthly king and we'll talk again...
I believe I have already adressed the Septigaint, Vulgates and Codices, they are translations of the bible, and do not prove it to be true any more than the french version of harry potter proves the english.
About the 92000 (apparently) quotes
Because they believed they were true, no matter how many people belief something it doesn't become true, and besides, where are you getting these numbers?
And even if they were these quotes, you still haven't proven the existence of your God.
@WaltonSauce You adressed nothing as you still have your runnuy nose up your butt and do not know how to conduct research on your own except in corrupt sources, the Septuagint is an excellent proof for the sheer number of Jewish scholars that participated and the method of retranscription that was so acurate 100% as they rejected corrupted pages lacking the precise number of vowels on each page and so on. Christianity is not blind faith it is Factually based, helloooo?
The Septuagint is the greek translation of a predecessor of the old testament, Faith is thw willingness to believe without evidence, your faith is a joke. And 10000 Vulgates? The Vulgates was a translation of the bible into roman and has no bearing on it's truth. And so what if they rejected certain pages? It doesn't prove any of it actually happened, you have no physical evidence. And your so called perfect bible is FULL of contradictions.
@WaltonSauce The Sewptuagint still is very acurate in it's transdlation and faith means TRUST and is based on repetitive experience with people that have proven to be trustworthy and in the Case of Christ, the Faith is Factually based as He is still alive and that archeology with 5000 finds attesting both the OT and NT NAMES AND PLACE NAMES , History and empirical science proves Him and the Bible more thanj abundantly to anyone who loves Truth, has eyes to see and a brain that works...
So what if you prove names and place names, still doesn't prove God exists, you only prove that there were people and places with those names. And exactly how have peoples names been proved by archeology?
@WaltonSauce Look, if Jesus Christ is not real, you tell me why 165 000 real christians, (not talking roman catholics here) real baptised by the Holy Spirit from Jesus Christ Christians (Born again born spiritually from above) get killed each year because they refuse to deny Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior when having a gun to their heads or facing a machette that will have their heads cut off. You tell me kid if you'd die for a stinkin' lie...i would not and i belong to Christ,
If muhammad is not real then tell me why 2 000 000 muslims would do all of that.
You have just invoked a logical fallacy called argument from popularity, no matter how many people believe something, it does not have any effect on the truth. There are roughly 6 billion people in the world, if only 165000 are christians, not looking good if you use that argument is it?
@WaltonSauce No, not a threat kid, a promise, you will see the 2nd coming of Christ as prophesied, in your lifetimne, are you ready to meet Him? I seriously doubt it. Being a True Christian does not depend on the individual who decides one morining to be a member of a man made religion such as Roman catholicism for instance, Jesus Christ said: o man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him (John 6:44) and roman catholicism teaches that you are saved by doing good deeds cted
OF COURSE IT IS ACCURATE IN WHAT IS SAYS ABOUT THE OT IT WAS TRANSLATED FROM IT!! this is no more than saying that the french version of harry potter is an accurate version of the english.
In Matthew 16:28, which has corresponding verses in Mark and Luke, Jesus says, "Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” There is a logical contradiction here since Jesus has not come back even 2000 years later and everyone who was "standing there" in the time of Jesus has died.
@WaltonSauce He is coming back in your lifetime kiddow, want to bet? You are incapable right now of undserstanding the Inspired Word of God since you are not born of the Spirit of God(1 Corinth 2:14) and you will find contradictions in it? Get real, what is your atheistic website that feeds you lies? You couldn,t even start discerning the prophetic calendar even in a week's time from now, helloooo????
And quoting the bible about 'Being born with the spirit of God' will get you no-where until you can prove it to be ture, and a god exist. You may as well quote star trek.
@WaltonSauce You need to be baptised by the Holy Spirit to understand Scripture as it is explained by John the Baptist(Matthew 3:11; by Jesus Christ Himself in Luke 11:13, by the apostle John in John 1:12-13 and again by Jesus Christ in John 3:3-8, you do not know what you are talking about when it comes to the Bible let alone anything secular, study on kid.
And again, none of them were contemporary to Jesus, the authorship of most is unknown and the names Matthew Mark Luke and John were tacked on by the church at a later date. you are a joke. You do not know what you are talking about when it comes to reality, study on baldy.
The sign of the beast isnt 666, its the cross around your neck
0202DBrown 1 week ago
I feel for kirk and ray having to endure the arrogant atheists on here misquoting the bible and using dreadful straw men arguments.
lv4ev5 3 weeks ago
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lv4ev5 3 weeks ago
@mamainmancj Hefty claim about eternal punishment, where's tbe evidence? And how can you justify eternal punishment for one lifetime? Kinda unbalanced.
DAVETtheathiesT 4 weeks ago
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Bourtini 1 month ago
Denying God is only going to be possible until you die then you'll stand before Him and give an account of every sin you've ever committed and without the righteousness of Jesus Christ you will be cast into the lake which burns with fire forever. Repent turn from sin and trust alone in Jesus Christ.
mamainmancj 2 months ago
@mamainmancj No.
firedrum71 1 month ago
@mamainmancj Do you care about whether or not your beliefs are true?
3234718 1 month ago
If only George Carlin was there....
firedrum71 3 months ago
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OutnumberedByZombies 3 months ago
those atheist got nothing didnt even answer the question
OutnumberedByZombies 3 months ago
@OutnumberedByZombies I truly wonder why. hmmm maybe because there is a God? OH NO WE CANT HAVE THAT! lets find another theory... LOL
Twinpact 2 months ago
@OutnumberedByZombies Although you can't write an English sentence correctly, I believe I understand your point. What questions did the atheists not answer?
3234718 1 month ago
@OutnumberedByZombies yes there arguments are weak psudeo science and red herrings.
lv4ev5 3 weeks ago
We love u JESUS!
I21GenieLee 5 months ago
Its nice to watch over and over religion get annihilated by reason. Its no contest. Religion is false and bad for humans
699backstab 6 months ago
@699backstab I think you're false and bad for humans. You should do us all a favor and commit suicide.
Apollo5600 5 months ago
@Apollo5600 That was VERY un-Christ like :(
firedrum71 1 month ago
I heard there was a guy called Serge who got annihilated.
AdamDLDixon 7 months ago
The host doesn't understand evolution, its not the strong eats the weak, its survival of the fittest. Survival of the fittest is solely interested in the ability to procreate and has nothing to do with killing others. Dogs fight for territory but rarely fight to the death, it's counterproductive. As for the moral basis, it seems only christians think that without the bible they would have the right to do anything, i once again say "christians are morally corrupt, they need to be controlled"
mattshark100 7 months ago
@WaltonSauce I tell you what kid, keep on going the way you are and see where it leads you, i hope you have a good life, comparing islam with True Christianity is like comparing bananas and oranges as in islam they die and commit suicide for the moon-god as they are decieved. As for Christ, He died for your sins and mine and He calls Himself the Way, the Truth and the Life, and no man comes to the Father but by Him. As for WW2, they killed the Jews that have been in Satan's aim for 6000 yrs now
Serge1965 7 months ago
@Serge1965
"You keep going where you are and see where it leads you" Is that a threat?
So saying others aren't true christians? How exactly do you define true christians, you're using a fallacy called no true scotsman. I thought anyone who accepted christ could go to heaven (if it exists). So what makes your christianity so good? Islam has just as much evidence as your "True Christianity" NONE. How do you know you are not being decieved?
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@Serge1965 How do you know that god isn't evil and Satan is the good one but God is tricking you into believing he is good? In the bible God killed more people. But this all boils down to evidence, of which, you have none. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. And by the way Islam worship the same God of Abraham as you, not some moon-god as you put it, You're ignorance is truly unmatched. Jews in satan's aim? I thought the bible says the jews are God's chosen people?
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@WaltonSauce Those He calls: Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. (Romans 8:30) Islam has a false Jesus and was invented by man 600-700 yrs after the only Jesus Christ that ever existed and they unconsciiously worship the moon-god. Their god hates everyone who does not submit to him, wants families to let their sons explode for his cause while my God loves the world so much that cted
Serge1965 7 months ago
@WaltonSauce He gave His only begotten Son so that WHOEVERbelieves in Him(Jesus) shall not perish but have eternal life(John 3:16) God gave Himself to us instead of their allah taking from them. How do i know that my God is not evil? Because when you take a break and take a cold hard look at yourself and stop comparing yourself to others that are just as fallable as you (because none of us are perfect) and start comparing yourself with Christ and in the Light of the Perfect Standards of cted
Serge1965 7 months ago
@WaltonSauce Holy Justice, in the mirror of the 10 commandments and realize that God will judge according to the perfection of His Law, you then see your need of being saved from a sure hell if you don't know Christ in personal relationship because His pardon is already there and free to take by faith, by trust in Him, not in your capacity to please Him because none of us can. His Blood was shed to pay your debt, mine and the debt of every human being on the planet but few know this
Serge1965 7 months ago
@Serge1965
Ah yes the 10 commandments, the first 4 of which are of God being jealous. Which version of the ten commandments do you follow? Exodus 20:1-17 or Exodus 34:12-26, which of the apostles got it right? Matthew 19:17-19, Mark 10:19 or Luke 18:20
What do: Deuteronomy 33:17, Job 39:9-10, Psalms 22:21, Psalms 29:6, Psalms 92:10, Numbers 23:22,
Numbers 24:8 and Isaiah 34:7 have in common? They all mention Unicorns, and you wonder why we think the bible is unreliable.
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@WaltonSauce Finally, you need to ask Him to be baptized by His Spirit (Luke 11:13) to grasp Scriptue that's spiritually discerned or they'll never make sense to u, God did order to kill nations that were sacrificing theur babies to demons and to protect the Messianic Line of Jesus Christ from Satan's attemps all throughout the OT to save us from hell, was He supposed to let them continue their child sacrifices to false gods? Jews are still His chosen people and the Church is the Bride of Christ
Serge1965 7 months ago
@WaltonSauce One more thing, for your insults i answer Jesus bless you abundantly : Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. (Matthew 5:10-12)
Serge1965 7 months ago
@Serge1965
So you're just going to keep quoting the Bible eh? Without even being able to prove it actually happened. And believe or God will judge you? Pascal's Wager mate, what if you're wrong and Islam is the true religion? or Hinduism or Norse.
Islam has a false jesus invented by man? I put it to you your Jesus was invented by man. Why should anyone believe what is written in the Bible? Iron age fairy tales. Quoting the Bible will get you no-where, have you read anything other than it?
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@ walton sauce, u need to be baptized not by water but by the Holy Spirit from above(Luke 11:13) to understand the Word of God which is spiritually diecerned (1 Corint 2:14) otherwise, the Word will cut you in pieces for it is a double edged Sword (Hebrews 4:12-13) You poor deceived kid, those of us who are saved are not under the law but under the Grace found in the New Testament and by displaying your ignorance of the context in the OT, your getting yourself in quicksand as u don't get it
Serge1965 7 months ago
@Serge1965
You believe in unicorns, that it is OK to stone children and that rape victims must marry the rapist. I don't know what sort of level of stupidity you have to sink to when you find ANY of that good. What is the context of "God sent bears to kill 42 children" your ignorance of reality is astonishing. Again you quote the bible, yet have nothing to show why I should believe it. Again it's just a book.
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@WaltonSauce For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. Not a threat kid, another promise, you are cutting youself spiritually from God while you foolishly think
Serge1965 7 months ago
@Serge1965
You are foolishly cutting yourself from reality while you don't think. Can you actually think for yourself? Or do you just accept what the bible says because it is the bible?
1 Peter 3:16 why do you believe the Bible is true? So far you have demonstrated nothing other than "Lots of other people believe it is"
There's this thing called evidence, of which, you have none. And again why should I believe anthing you say? What proof do you have that the word of god will kill me?
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@WaltonSauce thyou are winning a debate thatyou've lost already, you are free to mock His Word and not grasp the full context of the Whole councel of the 66 books to pursue your lusts and perish with your sins but you are not on the winning team now as Satan has you tight in his grip.
Serge1965 7 months ago
@Serge1965
Again, why do you believe satan exists? what evidence do you have? if any.
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@WaltonSauce Who do you think owns the music and the film industries? Who do you think owns all the money in this world? I guess evil suddenly vanished from the face of theearth in your world? Why do artists sign blood contracts with him? Since you think you know something about the Bible, how about reading Matthew 4:1-11 for a change?
Serge1965 7 months ago
@WaltonSauce You should see how many artists and politicians are led by him, satanists are running this world kiddow and they will perish with their stupidity
Serge1965 7 months ago
@Serge1965
Ahahaah so you're a conspiracy theorist now then? Again any evidence of what you claim?
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@WaltonSauce Ask Bob Dylan, Lady Gaga, and Justin Bieber
Rihanna
Akon
Lady Gaga
Katy Perry
Rihanna
Avril Lavigne
Taylor Swift
Black Eyed Peas.... just do a search on the most popular artists today and they're all on the list
Serge1965 7 months ago
@Serge1965
Why do you put such meaning in Iron age fairy tales. Why do you believe them? Why do you believe Unicorns exist?
Are you going to answer these questions or simply splurge out more bible verses?
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@WaltonSauce I believe the Word of God to be inherent and infallable, that unicorns did exist as they were rhinos who has a unique horn and that God says what He means and means what He says, why do u believe in the unproven gazillions of unseen yrs? This is not science, it is fary tales, are you going to splurge more pseudo-scientific religious verses from your fary tale books even if Mary Schweitzer from Montana U killed evoltion with a 70 million yr old T REX with soft tissue and blood cells?
Serge1965 7 months ago
@Serge1965
So you're going to change the definition of unicorn until it makes sense. And make up a number Gazillion omfg. The claims of those creationists is suspect because, in their book, which was published in 1998, they claimed that the "unfossilized" dinosaur bones would undergo extensive tests to validate their "unfossilizedness." As to date, 2011, no results have yet to be published. So they have not proven they were unfossilized only asserted it.
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@Serge1965 None of the "unfossilized" bones have ever been examined by a reputable dinosaur palaeontologist... John Horner or Phil Currie, for example. This fact alone makes the entire claim suspect. None of the pictures in their book, which they claim to be "unfossilized," actually appear to be "unfossilized" to the trained eye.
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@Serge1965 These creationists readily admit in their book that, at one point in their "adventure," they were fooled by a piece of driftwood, thinking it was a dinosaur bone. A real, scientifically trained eye would not have been fooled as easily as they were.
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@Serge1965 These creationists readily admit that they did not concentrate entirely on the Cretaceous Lipscomb Bone Bed, in which they did find completely fossilized duckbill dinosaur bones. They admit to digging through several layers of mud and permafrost, where they found what they called "unfossilized" dinosaur bones. Seeing as how mastodon and mammoth bones are common in permafrost layers, it is safe to assume this is what these creationists actually found, not dinosaur bones.
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@Serge1965
Mastodon and mammoth bones commonly do not show the same level of fossilization that heavily permineralized dinosaur bones do. To the untrained creationist eye, these bones would easily be mistaken for dinosaur bones.
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@Serge1965 I could just as easily say you need to be washed with special water to see the truth in ANY book, then claim you have not been washed and so cannot see the truth.
"The word will cut you to pieces with a 2 edged sword" back to the threats, how pathetic. If you are not going to have a reasonable discussion then how do you expect anyone to take you seriously?
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@Serge1965
Do you think it is right to stone unruly children? your bible does Deuteronomy 21:18-21
Do you think it is right to send bears to murder children? your bible does 2 Kings 2:23-24
Do you think that women who get raped should be stoned? your bible does Deuteronomy 22:23-24
Do you think that a woman who gets raped should have to marry the rapist? your bible does Deuteronomy 22:28-29
Do you think slavery is OK? Your bible does.
now do you see why I do not agree with the Bible?
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@Serge1965
And saying that "you have to be baptised to understand scripture". is just an attempt to avoid criticism, guess what, we have something called free speech, nothing is exempt from criticism anymore, no matter what excuse you come up with.
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@Serge1965 which is heresy since it is written: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Ephes. 2:8-9) and that to be saved, all that is required is written in the salvation plan here: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (Romans 10:9) God saves in a one moment miracle and sanctifies
Serge1965 7 months ago
@WaltonSauce Right now, with the way you investigate in atheistic websites, you would not be able to make the difference between a camel knee and Palm tree if you were to see one, your mindset is all wrong as you want to prove reality to be non-existent, Christ is a solid court case filled, packed with solid evidence, only fools say that there is no God
Serge1965 7 months ago
@WaltonSauce There is so much evidence woking against you kid that you have no idea Who you are dealing with there is far more evidence for Christ than there is for your deceitful life but hey, you are young and can still study on for a while until the evidence that is before you jumps in your face and shouts BOOOOO! Study kiddow, study
Serge1965 7 months ago
Comment removed
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
The idea that aspects of nature are too complex to have happened by chance (or more aptly natural processes if we wish to avoid straw men) is a fallacy of argument from ignorance, or even willful ignorance, in the case where the theist also has to reject what we already know about the facts of Darwinian evolution. It is essentially tantamount to the statement “I can't think how it could have happened, therefore God did it!”
Also if complex means design, is you god not complex, who designed God?
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
Brian and Kelly = teenagers
archi99ful 7 months ago
and do we not have proof that morality is manmade? every difference country enforces different laws based on a different view of morality.
autopsy87 8 months ago
@autopsy87 cool so morals are man made law then means nothing why folllow a law that means nothing going to where it started who taught morals in the first place where did it come from (god taught it to us in the begining so laws do mean somthing) but if there is no god i can go skin a baby alive tomorrow and realy it wont mean a thing. Most laws were made around the the laws of God. To not have God why follow laws?, because there is no right or wrong act you can do as you please
rubberglovesnz 7 months ago
morals ARE man made. you think mans morality comes from the bible? you need a book to tell you not to kill or steal? 1st thing you have to do is prove your god exists, which coincidentally cant be done without shedding any doubt that he might not be real. therein lies the problem with faith. faith doesnt lead you to truth, it leads you to what you WANT to believe. thats religion. it was made from ignorance to provide shallow comfort and explain a world that couldnt be understood at the time.
autopsy87 7 months ago
@autopsy87 we defiantly have a gut feeling of evil with witnessing sick kind of acts. Its not instinct when you get that gut wrenching feeling of wrong, because instinct is for survival. animals don't have that sort of a working also if there is no god then we shouldn't complain about any type of crime because its not wrong, and if it is why?
rubberglovesnz 7 months ago
@autopsy87 so there for its ok to do what we want whenever we want. would you condone any sick act? something like skin a baby alive if this is wrong then why? or is it something that is not wrong or right so it doesn't matter. Serial killers can keep going because it's not wrong. so no one has the right to complain what happens or how dreadful things are.
rubberglovesnz 7 months ago
@rubberglovesnz right and wrong are points of view. There is no universal standard for them. Even if there was, your god fails to enforce his own morality. your god doesnt stop serial killers, humans do. your god has the power to annihilate all evil and suffering but for some reason thinks its better for his favorite creations to suffer a life on earth and an eternity of hellfire. thats what I would define as immorality. eternal punishment is far more sick than skinning a baby.
autopsy87 7 months ago
@autopsy87 God fails to enforce his own morality no as you said in one of your statements its freewill what joy would he get if we were mindless robots. you dont belive in God so why care what happened its a bit hypocritical isnt it. MAN did evil and not God. We have freedom of choice so what evils we do we will pay in the end. If you truely look at my points with good and evil and look deeply at what im trying to show you, then maybe your eyes will be opend.
rubberglovesnz 7 months ago
@rubberglovesnz i have heard this argument many times. i spent the first 22 years of my life at church, at christian schools, and raised by a christian family. you have yet to prove that your god even exists, let alone that he created mans morality. if you need scriptures from the bronze age to tell you that its wrong to torture, murder, and steal, then whether or not god is real is the least of your problems.
autopsy87 7 months ago
@autopsy87 would of been some one he didnt care. put the story short God dosent approve of people sacrificeing others and it was one way that he would never do it again. Read all of Isaiah 45, if you made somthinglittle living and it turned around and hated you and spat in your face you would crush it wouldnt you!? He has more patients that both of us we couldn't even begin to cope.Most of the scriptures you put down are old testament which is a strict law.
rubberglovesnz 7 months ago
old testament is still the god of the new testament. my point is that if god is perfect and unchanging, his laws reflect what any descent man today would call "immorality". also, the old testament argument your using is invalid. christians thrive on picking and choosing what they want to believe. they want to believe a verse in leviticus that says gays should be put to death, but in the next chapter it demands the death of rebellious kids. let alone the 10 commandments they cherish.so much.
autopsy87 7 months ago
@autopsy87 we are now no longer bound by the law because Jesus brought us grace and mercy. If we truly repent we will be forgiven but only with true repentance being truly sory for what we have done not hypocrits the warnings in the bible are very clear. God loves you turn your ways there is good and evil. you still havn't answered the question as to why if there is no such thing as evil why is it bad to do realy bad acts? there is no evil so why?
rubberglovesnz 7 months ago
@rubberglovesnz but jesus himself said " i came not to abolish the law, but to fulfill it" Matthew 5:17. but if god is indeed unchanging, and he has to be in order to be perfect, why is there such a big difference in his laws from old testament to new testament. I dont believe in good or evil in the biblical sense. I believe in right and wrong. Things are wrong because we know them to be wrong. Empathy is an evolutionary trait.
autopsy87 7 months ago
@autopsy87 Jesus was the only One Who was able to fulfill the whole lettrer of the law, even the sacrifices of rams and goats did not cover for all the sins as they were a shadow of things to come, the Law was a Tutor to bring people to the undeserved Grace found in the New Testament, some sort of mirror where man stops comparing himself with other fallable men but starts comparing Himself with the Highest and Perfect Standards of a Holy and Almighty God, no one on the earth is able to even
Serge1965 7 months ago
so your god sacrificed himself to himself when he knew all he had to do was make it perfect from the beginning. meanwhile, human souls (his most prized and loved of all creation) are burning for eternity in this game hes playing with a devil he could destroy. Why is blood sacrifice necessary? Dont you find this very morbid and unnecessary? he created the universe with the blink of an eye, yet he requires blood to forgive people? how much more idiocy do you need to realize the truth. its not real
autopsy87 7 months ago
@autopsy87 wel my freind you are quite right he didnt come to change the law but we dont have to sacrifice cows or other animals for every sin we do and remember it every year plus new ones we have done, we still have to follow the law as best we can, but if we stuff up we dont need to be stone to death or sacrifice things to say sorry we have to be genuinely sorry not a token effort you cant do what you like and ask for forgivness it dosen't work that way. being bound to the law and following
rubberglovesnz 7 months ago
@rubberglovesnz but wouldnt you agree from your knowledge and teaching that disbelief is the only unpardonable sin next to blasphemy, which stems from nonbelief.
autopsy87 7 months ago
@autopsy87 If you accept him into your heart you are saved as long as it is genuine he say on judgment day he will examin your heart if you are genuine YOU WILL BE SAVED what happens is you become born again you leave your old life behind and live again on that path you start again with any stuff ups you have to be genuinly sorry not pretend to be forgive and you will be forgiven your heart is the key god bless you i got to have tea if you want to think about it or have more questions ask
rubberglovesnz 7 months ago
@autopsy87 being bound to the law and following the law are two diffrent things. he administered to the dead and took the keys from hell so those that were bound by law could go to heaven most id say would have accepted him. there is no right or wrong if there is no good or evil. there are other records from romans other than the bible that describe the hugely thick curtain riping from top to bottom and of a great darkness that fell at the time of Jesuses death
rubberglovesnz 7 months ago
yet no mention of the dead rising and walking the streets when jesus was resurrected as mentioned in Matthew 27:52-53. nor of jesus starting a riot during the passover in the temple. nor of jesus resurrecting or "ascending" into heaven which we now know today to be impossible. if jesus had a body of flesh, like it says he did, then he would have died in space. we also know that heaven must be a spiritual state and not in the sky somewhere. the New T is 2k years old. 1500 years before science.
autopsy87 7 months ago
@autopsy87 i have a vid of someone been risen from the dead in africa in my favorates have a look easy to say fake but the files all over him and complexion say it all.if you look at the story of the tower of bable or babalon which has been un covered in i think bagdad the story says they built it to reach heaven.
rubberglovesnz 7 months ago
@autopsy87 The very idea seem stupid and impossable which i can tell you it is not the top was filled with corts crystals as a spiritual channelin which witchcraft use to communicate or channel spirits. that is why it came down. and heaven a is spiritual place that can hold both spirt and bodly form.
rubberglovesnz 7 months ago
@rubberglovesnz it would be possible on earth with or without god to "do what we want". its called freewill. However thanks to MAN and not god, laws are in place to make sure if anyone wrongs you, you can take action and seek justice. Of course i dont condone sick acts. I believe everyone can do whatever they want to do as long as they dont directly effect the freedoms of others. this includes murder, theft, and quite a few things your god condoned in the old testament.
autopsy87 7 months ago
@autopsy87 why is sick acts bad if there is no such thing as good or evil why would anyone care if any one did sick acts or i cann chain someone up because i want to not such thing as evil sowho cares wouldnt want to follow laws because i can do what i like. If theres no evil or dont complain if someone does somthing bad to you because there is no such thing as a bad act its there freewill. If its MAN made who cares.
rubberglovesnz 7 months ago
@rubberglovesnz heres your gods morality: Hosea 13:16, Hosea 9:11-16, Isaiah 45:7, Deuteronomy 20:10-14, Judges 11:29-40, Deuteronomy 13:13-19, Leviticus 20:9. and of course the messiahs stance on slavery. 1 Timothy 6:1-2, Ephesians 6:5. your unchanging "all loving, just, and moral" god is anything but. thats just a few verses that show that you and i are both more moral than the character who supposedly created our morality. and yet, you cant prove god, let alone that he made morality.
autopsy87 7 months ago
@autopsy87 i dont have to prove anything you are yet to prove God doesn't exist, and your walk is your own walk in life. If one country goes to war does not the prisoners taken go to a slavery of sorts most of what you describe in the scriptures is a lot more merciful than what those people would have done if it was the other way around in cluding eating people child sacrifice, oh by the way te one in judges was a pride filled and was taught a lesson so it happend to teach him a lesson or it
rubberglovesnz 7 months ago
if i dont believe something is real, and i dont believe it ever existed... how could i prove it never existed? there is no evidence for something that never existed. the burden is yours if you believe he is real and exists. also... you think that what happened to Jephthah in judges was right? his daughter roamed for two months in the mountains because of her father, then she died a virgin. God could at any point annihilate sin. every moment that he refuses to allows for more suffering.
autopsy87 7 months ago
@autopsy87 then you take away freewill which i said he will never interfear with if it wasnt going to be her then it would have been someone else and it would have kept hapening, the mistake was his own not Gods, he chose to sacrifice not God, and God did not approve at all. can you answer that question why is doing evil wrong?
rubberglovesnz 7 months ago
i believe in right and wrong. because right and wrong are points of view. People have a sense of right and wrong, it is embedded in everyone as an evolutionary trait. Just like wild animals protect their young. This is the reason we invented religion and politics. We want people to expect, and think bad things are going to happen if they do something wrong. Your god allows for rapists, murderers, and thiefs a second chance. Yet the only unforgivable sin is non belief. is that good? moral? just?
autopsy87 7 months ago
@autopsy87 obey the 10 commandments let alone the 613 commandments, precepts and ordinances contained in the Law of Moses so God provided Grace through faith in Jesus Christ even from the Old Testament as Abraham, before the Law came to Moses, received the promise by faith that God counted him as righteousness. For God so loved the worlds, that He GAVEHis only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shallnot perish but have eternal life (John 3:16) it is a free gift of pardon already availabl
Serge1965 7 months ago
@Serge1965 and santa clause can deliver presents to every house in the world all in 1 night!! believe in what im saying for it will mean a gift! the words of a book long known to be false mean nothing. when you open your eyes and realize that this life is probably the only one you get, u can start to live it to the fullest. i compare it to a slave unchaining his own shackles and setting out to be a free man. live a good moral life without magic and mysticism, which is so far outdated.
autopsy87 7 months ago
@autopsy87 Actually, you are the one in shackles here as yiou are the prisoner of many religions, i am a Jesus Freak and unashamed of it but if there is one thing pal, i am free from religiosity having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ while atheism is recognized by the state of wisconsin as the religion of the convict and the secular humanists declared in their manifesto that secular humanism is a religion saying that religious humanists this and that etc. you are surrounded by
Serge1965 7 months ago
@Serge1965 atheism is a religion? then not collecting stamps is a hobby? call it what you will, atheism has no dogma, no church, no bible, and no ideology. all it says is "i dont believe in a particular god". if your a "jesus freak" then you too are an atheist in the fact that you dont believe in islam, hinduism, or buddism. atheists believe many different things, come from many different walks of life. all it means is they agree that there is no evidence for a particular deity.
autopsy87 7 months ago
@autopsy87 Hey, some convicts draged prison officials to court sio that their religion of atheism would be respoected and recognized as such, if you disagree with your bros in the faith, you go tell them. No need to believe in a Higher Being to be a religious freak, all that is required is to defend your unbelief with religious zeale which is what we observe with the fanaticism (another ism!) observed in the atheistic church.
Serge1965 7 months ago
@autopsy87 atheism, agnosticism, eugenism, collectivism, relativism and behaviorism and you would think that i'm the religious nut here??? Actually, there is far more evidence for Christ than there is for the pseudo science of evolution inspired by the racist ideology found in Eugenism
Serge1965 7 months ago
@autopsy87 there are many man made religions in this world such as those you mentioned but their human leaders are all dead and buried and you can still be a good believer in those religions without the leader present. In the case of Christ, it is different for without following the Living and risen Lord, everything would crumble, Food for thought...without Him, you cannot be a Christian nor enter His rest
Serge1965 7 months ago
@Serge1965 according to evidence, common sense, and rational thought, if jesus ever did exist... then he is dust somewhere. If he is alive, then he is the first person in recorded human history to survive for 2000 years. All of your ideology is based on a book written in the bronze age hundreds of years before science. Back in the days when we thought the earth was flat, and that spitting on a wound cured it.
autopsy87 7 months ago
@autopsy87 You have no idea how in the dark u are as there is more evidence for Him than for you actually, Jesus Christ wasn't just a man, He is GOD ALMIGHTY, the Bible isn,t just a book from the bronze age, it is 66 BOOKS penned by 40 men of various backgrounds, written over a 1500 years span in 3 languages, in various cities and countries by kings, prophets, fishermen, tax collector, apostles and disciples. Christ is a solid court case with overwhelming evidence for all who dare to investigate
Serge1965 7 months ago
@Serge1965
66 books by 40 men over 1500 years, but none of them centemporary, none of them eye-witnesses. And besides, no matter how many times a lie is repeated or how many people believe it, it never becomes true. Evidence is all that matters, I'll grant you Jesus could have existed, but you have to prove he was God as you say and prove that God exists.
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@WaltonSauce The error here is that you see the Bible as an Ancient Book as part of time but what you don't grasp is that those 66 books are TIMELESS as they are inspired from God Himself who lives in eternity, God is provable by merely looking outside the window at nature or even in every body cells where there is more than enough design shouting DESIGNER! I don't even have to prove a thing to you about this but i can assure you that everyone who has done their homework and investigated ...
Serge1965 7 months ago
@WaltonSauce seriously the claims of Christ such as when He said that He was the Almighty Revelation 1:8 and all the names and places names in both the New and Old Testament, in archeology and even in secular history, came to face an overwhelming mountain of Factual evidence that was inevitable and as skeptics, became followers of Christ afterwards. It is not my job to convince you, i have don my own homework and am more than confident in what i know, when you appear before Christ, and you will,
Serge1965 7 months ago
@Serge1965
Overwhelming mountain of factual evidence? yet you can't provide any.
When christ said he was the almighty? Circular reasoning there.
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@WaltonSauce with holes in His hands and feet. We got the Septuagint (300 BC) the Dead Sea scrolls 250-300 BC), the precise retranscription method by the Massoretes, 25000 manuscripts for the New Testament, 92 000 quotes outside the Biblical reference able to reconstruct the whole NT except for 3 verses, 10 000 Latin Vulgates, i don't know how many codexes, more than 5000 archeological finds attesting both the OT and NT names of personages and place names, 21 kings named in order and precise
Serge1965 7 months ago
@Serge1965
Hands and feet? only his hands were nailed. And evolution is not pseudoscience, change over time happens, if a change gives an adavantage, the organism with it can reproduce more, A vulgate is just a 4th century translation of the bible. 5000 finds that confirm place names? Yet no Sodom, Gomorragh or Nazareth which is not mentioned in any jewish sources earlier than the 3rd century, hence not contempary. Archaeological finds at Naz show it ended around 720BC
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@WaltonSauce letters that match the same 21 kings in secular history. the sumerian king list that gives a list of kings with great longevity prior to a flood and after which flood the longevity decreased and a mention of the Most High coming down on the earth, empirical science showing evidence of Design so stinking complex in every body cells that it yells DESIGN AND DESIGNER, i mean, If you feel like denying a 45 footer with both hands while u stand on the middle of the road...
Serge1965 7 months ago
@Serge1965
And as for place names, Doctor Who mentions: London, New York, Rome, Pompeii etc, way more than your bible.
James Chapter 5
19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
It is your job to convince me.
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
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@WaltonSauce you tell us to prove God exists, prove God does not exist
rubberglovesnz 7 months ago
@WaltonSauce In case evolution was your idol to worship and that you'd feel like boasting about the progress of your pseudo science, just think that the Design in your cells makes the stinking space station and shuttles look idiotic..make your coffee stronger and take your responsibilities with the destiny of your eternal soul, it is not my job to convict you, it is God that draws men unto Himself (John 6:44) and the Holy Spirit convicts that person (John 16:8). now, you'd be without excuses
Serge1965 7 months ago
@WaltonSauce Try not to use the lame excuse that Serge1965 did not provide you with the evidence thatYOU demanded, the Lord will look at you and ask you why you did not seek Him on your own, He is not after your religious performances, He is after your heart.
Serge1965 7 months ago
@Serge1965
I have done my homework, I have investigated. The difference between you and me...I have investigated both sides, I regularly watched Hovind, WOTM and VFX as well as Tf00t RRS etc. Have you ever seriously considered the other sides, have you considered other religions such as Islam (same god btw), Judaism? etc
This all boils down to one thing, evidence. You assume that the bible is correct without even taking the time to do the research you claim, and the blatantly wrong claims in it
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@WaltonSauce Have you checked Simon Greenleaf and his solid court case? Or maybe our contemporary apologist named Josh MacDowel with His book called The New evidence that demands a Verdict? The problem with you atheist is that you will go to every source which is fine but in the wrong mindset, if you alreaduy decided that Christ was an insul to the sovereignty of your mind, although i presented you the fruits of my own homework, you would not believe nor would you even believe if Christ Himself
Serge1965 7 months ago
@Serge1965
Josh Mcdowell isn't a contempary he wasn't living at the same time as Jesus, I suggest you look up the term. It does not yell design and designer.
Not all claims made by the Old testament are in dispute - only the extraordinary claims, such as the Garden of Eden, or Noah's ark., to which the dead sea scrolls make no mention.
And as for Simon Greenleaf have you read Howard Richard Packham's critique?
The Septuagint is just a greek translation of the Hebrew bible.
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@WaltonSauce Are you doing this on purpose? i said our contemporary apologist Josh Mcdowell, do you even know how to read and write or are u hiring anyone to type your messages? And if you knew how to read, i said that the empirical science shows evidence of design and of a Designer by implication when you look at the design in the cell, look, i don't have time to play with kids, do some serious homework on your own for yourself, we'lll talk afterwards..Stop listening to man, listen to God.
Serge1965 7 months ago
@Serge1965
What evidence of a designer? no trademark stamp, nothing at all. We have many many theories of Abiogenesis all of which are perfectly reasonable and do not require a designer, even if you could prove a designer, it could be Odin, FSM, Kronos or whoever.
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@WaltonSauce Did i hear:What proof of a Designer? Chiche, you really do it on purpose..what am i gonna do with you? Look young man, when you have coded language(DNA) that is being translated into another code of letters(RNA) by a translating machine to sens a coded messsage to all kinds of bio-molecular machines to do their jobs in the cell as in a miniature car factory with robots, you are in the presence of DESIGN and that my young counterpart is counter-intuitive to RANDUMBNESS, u kapish yet?
Serge1965 7 months ago
@Serge1965
Not all systems which are known to represent information (a.k.a. code) were known to have been created by a designer. For example, the solar system can be viewed as a system which encodes information, such as the length of a day or the period in which one might harvest crops, or the tidal calendar. While this coded information provides data relevant to the daily lives of the inhabitants of this planet, it is by no means apparent that this information was created by a designer.
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@WaltonSauce God created the sun, the moon the stars and the universe by His Word and the laws of physics that allow you to be a conscious observer on the earth that is sustained by so much fine tuning that one single move on any scale would make us disppear in an instant. If you knbew why you are in the presence of religious atheist teachers, you would understand that they hate God and love religion, their own satanic religion called secular humanism, study young man and think outside their box
Serge1965 7 months ago
@Serge1965
Again Evidence?
Religious Atheist Teachers? Atheism is no more a religion than bald a hair colour or being healthy is a disease. And as I said, not at school. And my age has no bearing on the veracity of my argument. Would never bost about education? This is from the man who said that because I am apparently a schoolchild I am therefore wrong? Hypocrite. You made a statement about my education, I corrected you, no boasting there.
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@WaltonSauce Posted: August 20, 2005 1:00 am Eastern © 2011 WND A federal court of appeals ruled yesterday Wisconsin prison officials violated an inmate's rights because they did not treat atheism as a religion. Atheism is [the inmate's] religion, and the group that he wanted to start was religious in nature even though it expressly rejects a belief in a supreme being," the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals said. You are not correcting anyone kiddow, study on...
Serge1965 7 months ago
@Serge1965
Oxford Dictionary
noun
[mass noun] the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power , especially a personal God or gods:ideas about the relationship between science and religion [count noun] a particular system of faith and worship:the world's great religions
Atheism is simply the lack of belief in a God or other god's.
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@WaltonSauce Study on kiddow, study on, you prefer listening to atheist deceived people that cannot prove the unseen billions of years and either they know it or not, what they teach is from eugenism and satanism, you are just starting your life and think you know a thing or 2 for you were trained to fit in the mold, it remais that atheism and secular humanism are religiosities whether they are found in a dictionary or not for their followerrs defend their unbelief with religious zeale so
Serge1965 7 months ago
@WaltonSauce there is no need to worship a Deity to be a religious person, you only need to be religiously convinced and religiously defending your position to be a religious freak and i am the one here that has only a personal relationship with someone while on the other hand, atheists and secular humanists are no better than those who meet in Scientology , Jehovah's witnesses' , Mormon assemblies, you all deny the Deity of Christ
Serge1965 7 months ago
@Serge1965
Sorry, we don't believe Satan exists either, and as for eugenism, I don't agree with eugenics at any level. Religious zeal? you seem to be the only one showing any. Seeing as you think my age is a factor in atheism what about older atheists? I don't deny the deity of christ I simply ask for evidence, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. You see we can prove the "unseen billions of years" we have this thing called evidence, Fossil record, cosmology etc. You deny that.
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@Serge1965
When you tink about why you do not believe in Zeus, Thor, Krishna or Beowa. The same reason is why I do not believe in your god, you have no evidence. The religions of the world cannot all be right since they are mutually exclusive, but they can all be wrong.
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@WaltonSauce Because your zeus, thor, Krishna or bowa are either simply part of the greek myths or dead and buried in the case of krishna while Jesus Christ was personally known by the apostles and disciples that He had, He was born in Bethgleem, lived in Nazareth, walked the shores of Galilea, had a ministry of 3 yrs where he performed miracles before witnesses, was crucified by the Romans and that is verifiable, died, rose again before 500 witnesses at 1 place, stayed 40 days with disciples
Serge1965 7 months ago
@WaltonSauce afterwards and ascended back to heaven where He came from in the first place. His body has never ever been found by anyone yet, no, not even CSI Miami or NY...
Serge1965 7 months ago
@Serge1965
So the fact no body has been found proves he ascended to heaven? There are no frost giants destroying earth, Thor keeps away frost giants, therefore Thor exists. Loads of people's bodies have not been found, is that proof they were not all taken to heaven, and again any evidence of this, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. You have shown no evidence. More than 500 people claimed to have been abducted by aliens, seen bigfoot or had
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@WaltonSauce We know from history that the characters you named were myths while we also know from Historical evidence outside the Bible that Christ is real that the evidence found in archeology in Israel by over 5000 sites gives even more credibility to the Biblical account than for any other historical figure, try comparing the evidenmce for Caesar and the evidence for Christ, forget your myths for a second and do some real investigating and see for yourself if you are capable...
Serge1965 7 months ago
@Serge1965
Even if you can prove christ existed you can't prove he was the son of god as you claim. Those archeological digs only prove that the cities mentioned in the bible existed, even though, Sodom, Gomorragh have not yet been found, and Nazareth was shown to be uninhabited at the time. In 2000 years when people read about spiderman and find New York in archeological digs, will the be justified the belief he is real? As for Caesar we have so so much more evidence for his existence such as:
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@WaltonSauce Scriptures are clear from the Old Testament up to the New Testament in prophecy that God had a son and that His son is also God. and i don,t care what source of historical data you have, it is erroneus, Sodom and Gomorrah have been found and Nazreth is exactly today where it was at the time Jesus was born but you can still watch spiderman and lady gaga if that level of I.Q. suits you best, i mean when i was your age, i was still playing nintendo games, study on kiddow, study on...
Serge1965 7 months ago
@Serge1965 Sodom and Gomorrah have not been discovered, and I didn't say that Nazareth hadn't been unearthed, but it had been shown that it was uninhabited after 720BC and is not mentioned in any jewish scripts earlier than 3AD and it was not inhabited until 2AD. You clearly didn't understand my Spiderman metaphor, allow me to use another example, In 200 years if people read about james bond, and then discover London, MI6 etc used to exist at the same time, is that evidence bond existed?
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@Serge1965
Many contemporary writings about him, carvings of him carved in his lifetime, coins with his face, dated to the time he existed. Caesar was an eyewitness to many of the events he describes in his commentaries. He wrote not for posterity but to have an immediate impact on the power players in Rome as he schemed to advance his own career. The elapsed time between the wars and Caesar's own writing was a matter of months or at most a few years.
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@WaltonSauce You have it all wrong kiddow, the earliest writing about Caesar was written 1000 years after Caesars life in the Gaelic wars, i don,t know who is your teacher but he is an idiot who knows nothing about history, the writings of teh NT came as early as 52 AD and earlier and for the NT everything was compiled by 94 AD which is far less than 1000 years for Caesars, Caesar's Gaelic wars have maybe what 6-10 reliable copies while the New Testament has 25 000 manuscripts and 92 000 quotes
Serge1965 7 months ago
@Serge1965
You've pulled that '1000 years after Caesars existence' quote straight out of your ass like most of your answers. Sodom and Gomorrah? They found a cave and evidence of an earthquake. All these numbers you are coming up with have been pulled straight out of no-where. Christ is not a solid court case, it's not even a flimsy one, it is simply wishful thinking. The elapsed time between the wars and Caesar's own writing was a matter of months or at most a few years.
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@Serge1965
And by the way, the Qu'ran has plenty of quotes and manuscripts that can be used as evidence, and it says your bible is wrong.
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@Serge1965
In contrast, the elapsed time between the gospel reports and the supposed events that they describe is at least 40 years for 'Mark' and 60-70 years for the other three Gospels.
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@WaltonSauce
Even if some aspects of the bible can be proved as historically accurate, that does not necessarily make the claims about Jesus or claims attributed to Jesus true. For instance, we have a large body of empirical evidence that George Washington was a real person, but that doesn't mean the story about him cutting down a cherry tree is necessarily true.
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@WaltonSauce Sodom and Gomorrah were found: wwwDOTaccuracyingenesisDOTcomSLAshsodom.html
Serge1965 7 months ago
@WaltonSauce ...92 000 quotes by the early church fathers, outside the Bible, able to reconstruct the entire New Testament at the exception of 3 verses so start studying where they teach the truth at least...
Serge1965 7 months ago
@Serge1965 So you quite clearly made that 1000 years thing up. 92000 quotes from early church fathers, where do you get your information and figures? 52 AD? Didn't jesus die in 36 AD therefore it wasn't contemporary? The authorship of most of the gospels is unknown and the names were tacked on by the church later on. And I don't say there is no God, I say there is insufficient evidence to say there is. I dont know where you get all this, but you are clearly making most of it up Ad Hoc.
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@Serge1965
And most mainstream scholar's agree that the Gospels were written between 66 and 110 AD therefore not being contemporary of Jesus and just hearsay.
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@WaltonSauce The New Testament is in the Old Testament concealed and the Old Testament is the New Testament, revealed and all 66 books of the Bible penned by 40 different guys over a period of 1500 years are coherent by Jesus Christ from start to finish so find a better excuse than hearsay kiddow, you are not convincing anyone with that one and all texts were in by 90 AD by the way not 110 AD as your false teachers or scholars teach
Serge1965 7 months ago
@Serge1965 So the bibles coherent eh?
The first two chapters of Genesis contradict each other on the creation of man. Gen 1:26 Man was created on the sixth day. Notice the first 5 days god was busy creating animals and plants. Gen 2:4-7 Man was created right from the start.
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@Serge1965
In the gospels, Matthew, Mark and Luke, Jesus, during the Passover, goes to the temple and clears out the merchants in the temple courtyard. this occurs at towards the end of his ministry, closer to the time of his death. However, in the book of John, Jesus does this "temple cleansing" at the beginning of his ministry. There is an obvious contradiction here regarding the time of this particular event.
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@Serge1965
Even if there were 92000 quotes outside the Bible, they were probably talking about the Bible. You could collect 92000 quotes by some people and recreate any book with that amount. And how do quotes prove it happened exactly? If they were early church fathers they clearly believed it all and had already read the Bible, stop with the Ad Hoc points, start with actual evidence instead of making stuff up.
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@WaltonSauce Why would the early church fathers waste their time on 92000 quotes if they wer enot true or revealing what is really there in the New Testament all along? it simply corroborates the precision and authenticity of the Holy Writ and if you knew anything whatsoever about historical records, you would understand the body of evidfence in those 92 000 quotes added to 25 000 manuscripts attesting the NT, but i guess your secular history is no longer valid according to your standards
Serge1965 7 months ago
@Serge1965
Because they believed they were true, no matter how many people belief something it doesn't become true, and besides, where are you getting these numbers?
And even if they were these quotes, you still haven't proven the existence of your God.
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@WaltonSauce of evaluation that does not even come close to what the Bible holds for the OT with the Septuagint(300 AD) the Dead Sea scrolls (250-300 AD) , the 25 000 manuscripts and parchmints for the NT and the 10000 Latin Vulgates and the codexes, try and find something that significant for any emperor or earthly king and we'll talk again...
Serge1965 7 months ago
@Serge1965
I believe I have already adressed the Septigaint, Vulgates and Codices, they are translations of the bible, and do not prove it to be true any more than the french version of harry potter proves the english.
About the 92000 (apparently) quotes
Because they believed they were true, no matter how many people belief something it doesn't become true, and besides, where are you getting these numbers?
And even if they were these quotes, you still haven't proven the existence of your God.
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@WaltonSauce You adressed nothing as you still have your runnuy nose up your butt and do not know how to conduct research on your own except in corrupt sources, the Septuagint is an excellent proof for the sheer number of Jewish scholars that participated and the method of retranscription that was so acurate 100% as they rejected corrupted pages lacking the precise number of vowels on each page and so on. Christianity is not blind faith it is Factually based, helloooo?
Serge1965 7 months ago
@Serge1965
The Septuagint is the greek translation of a predecessor of the old testament, Faith is thw willingness to believe without evidence, your faith is a joke. And 10000 Vulgates? The Vulgates was a translation of the bible into roman and has no bearing on it's truth. And so what if they rejected certain pages? It doesn't prove any of it actually happened, you have no physical evidence. And your so called perfect bible is FULL of contradictions.
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@WaltonSauce The Sewptuagint still is very acurate in it's transdlation and faith means TRUST and is based on repetitive experience with people that have proven to be trustworthy and in the Case of Christ, the Faith is Factually based as He is still alive and that archeology with 5000 finds attesting both the OT and NT NAMES AND PLACE NAMES , History and empirical science proves Him and the Bible more thanj abundantly to anyone who loves Truth, has eyes to see and a brain that works...
Serge1965 7 months ago
@Serge1965
So what if you prove names and place names, still doesn't prove God exists, you only prove that there were people and places with those names. And exactly how have peoples names been proved by archeology?
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@WaltonSauce Look, if Jesus Christ is not real, you tell me why 165 000 real christians, (not talking roman catholics here) real baptised by the Holy Spirit from Jesus Christ Christians (Born again born spiritually from above) get killed each year because they refuse to deny Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior when having a gun to their heads or facing a machette that will have their heads cut off. You tell me kid if you'd die for a stinkin' lie...i would not and i belong to Christ,
Serge1965 7 months ago
@Serge1965
If muhammad is not real then tell me why 2 000 000 muslims would do all of that.
You have just invoked a logical fallacy called argument from popularity, no matter how many people believe something, it does not have any effect on the truth. There are roughly 6 billion people in the world, if only 165000 are christians, not looking good if you use that argument is it?
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@WaltonSauce No, not a threat kid, a promise, you will see the 2nd coming of Christ as prophesied, in your lifetimne, are you ready to meet Him? I seriously doubt it. Being a True Christian does not depend on the individual who decides one morining to be a member of a man made religion such as Roman catholicism for instance, Jesus Christ said: o man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him (John 6:44) and roman catholicism teaches that you are saved by doing good deeds cted
Serge1965 7 months ago
@Serge1965 and as for the septugaint.
OF COURSE IT IS ACCURATE IN WHAT IS SAYS ABOUT THE OT IT WAS TRANSLATED FROM IT!! this is no more than saying that the french version of harry potter is an accurate version of the english.
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@Serge1965
In Matthew 16:28, which has corresponding verses in Mark and Luke, Jesus says, "Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” There is a logical contradiction here since Jesus has not come back even 2000 years later and everyone who was "standing there" in the time of Jesus has died.
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@WaltonSauce He is coming back in your lifetime kiddow, want to bet? You are incapable right now of undserstanding the Inspired Word of God since you are not born of the Spirit of God(1 Corinth 2:14) and you will find contradictions in it? Get real, what is your atheistic website that feeds you lies? You couldn,t even start discerning the prophetic calendar even in a week's time from now, helloooo????
Serge1965 7 months ago
@Serge1965
wwwDOTinfidelsDOTorgSLASLlibrarySLASHmodernSLASHjim_meritt/bible-contradictionsDOThtml#good_to_all
And quoting the bible about 'Being born with the spirit of God' will get you no-where until you can prove it to be ture, and a god exist. You may as well quote star trek.
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@WaltonSauce You need to be baptised by the Holy Spirit to understand Scripture as it is explained by John the Baptist(Matthew 3:11; by Jesus Christ Himself in Luke 11:13, by the apostle John in John 1:12-13 and again by Jesus Christ in John 3:3-8, you do not know what you are talking about when it comes to the Bible let alone anything secular, study on kid.
Serge1965 7 months ago
@Serge1965 I have been baptised mate. Was born Catholic.
WaltonSauce 7 months ago
@Serge1965
And again, none of them were contemporary to Jesus, the authorship of most is unknown and the names Matthew Mark Luke and John were tacked on by the church at a later date. you are a joke. You do not know what you are talking about when it comes to reality, study on baldy.
WaltonSauce 7 months ago