I believe what he is saying is that Obama is talking about Abortions being done for the "health" of the mother... you people take things so far out of context.
So you get to choose if a person lives or dies as long as you decide that they are "deserving", but a pregnant woman cannot decide whether or not she should have a child? That sounds a bit paradoxical...
Note: Rapists do not get the death penalty unless they killed their victim as well...just an FYI.
The decision is made by the convicted to forfeit their life for whatever crime justifies death. The government is mandated to a speedy and impartial trial and to execute justice. The value on taking a life is really high in this scenario ...but...
YOU on the other hand kill for the happiness of the would-be Mother. Life becomes exceedingly cheap.
Amishmarine1 you are so right. And i have noticed most of the anti-abortion or pro-life guys are the same who do not hesitate to bomb and kill other people including children. where do they get off.
Its a double standard to the highest degree, they feel that some life is worth more than others. I don't claim to understand the twisted mind of anyone who bomb an abortion clinic.
ProChoice, you misrepresented what McCain said by editing out his main point. His unedited statement was, "the 'health' of the mother-that's been stretched by the proabortion movement to mean almost anything-and *that's* the extreme proabortion position,*quote*, the 'health' of the mother." His point was not not disallow exceptions for the health of the mother, but to challenge the use of that issue as a smoke screen by the pro abortion movement to remove any constraints on abortion whatsoever.
next we should pass a law against adultry. stop divorce. So mr. mccain shd then be stoned to death since he wants to drag all of us to the middle ages. Lets all be fair. I am a catholic and i am against divorce so mr ccain has had children out of welock and cindy mccain is then what his ....
First off I have NEVER had sex with anyone besides my husband , he breaks EVERY condom and won't get a visectomy , Doctors won't give me a surgicles option of sterilization, I can't use birth contols pills or IDU because of medical health issues, so before you start slandering people you should think twice !
Unwed sex I recall, you saying I had to have unwed sex, I don't do that so, yes that was slander. Maybe I don't wan't more than one kid, maybe a can't even afford one kid, maybe I don't want kids at all. Maybe I don't want to be regarded as a broodmare or breeding animal, baby incubator, whatever you call woman.LOL By the way beautiful dog my mom love snauzchers my mom just rescued one.
Ah, how nice my mom runs a cat rescue so many loving animals from shelters can be found. No I don't agree with unwed sex STD's hurt people:( I agree with legal abortion becuase we don't need two people dying ! I'm soon to have my first child, pregnancies are very rough and will ruin my chance at a college education. I honestly wish there really was no reason to ever take anyones life human or animal, but that is just not the case sadly.
All life is sacred to some extent. We had a family of cats move under our house. I caught and had neutered them all (5)the left ear is marked then we released them. My wife cant resist feeding them they lounge all around like they own the place. The schnauzer and the yorkie are always barking at them- the cats dont even blink it's funny
What an inane question. No mothers,pregnant or otherwise in other countries are targets.
Only in America by abortionists; where they need no bombs. Mostly children are killed but sometimes the mother too. The would-be Mother is almost always left mentally and emotionally damaged.
I guess McCain's working along the legal lines of;if the State decides who gets to be executed,or not,in the Death Chamber/it's supposed to be able to decided who gets to be executed,or not,in the Birth Chamber...Roe vs Wade was not a knee jerk reaction decision by an ill informed county judge,The Supreme Court made a well studied and thought out decision on the subject.And it will never be up to a President to reverse their decision.
Government involvement in health care has resulted in skyrocketing prices and in unwanted intrusion in our personal lives and it uses our money to do it. Have you noticed hospital emergency rooms closing in your area? We have one hospital now.
Government should stay in the business of defense and keeping the peace period.
No Govermental healthcare is good it's worked great in other countries like England, Britian, France and Canada. When Governmental healthcare is excercised properly it works great, no one should die becuase they can't get healthcare.
for those of you whining about definitions: BABY: 1 a A very young child; an infant. b An unborn child; a fetus. c The youngest member of a family or group. d A very young animal. 2 An adult or young person who behaves in an infantile way. HUMAN: 1 A member of the genus Homo and especially of the species H. sapiens. 2 A person... Many mothers refer to their unborn child as a "baby". That baby is a homo sapien. This is not "Christian" emotion, it's human nature.
We are not "especially" a member of H.sapiens, we ARE Homo sapiens. The Homo genus goes back to Homo habilis, which is not defined as a human but part of the family that was to begin the human lineage at 2.2mya. The family of Homo also includes neanderthalensis, floresiensis, etc. So what is it you "define as human?" I'd love ot know.... If you are going to try and preach, please don't pretend to be an anthropologist while doing so - we really don't take kindly to it.
darby:"We are not "especially" a member of H.sapiens, we ARE Homo sapiens...don't pretend to be an anthropologist while doing so"
I'm not pretending to be one. I looked the words up in a dictionary and copied the definitions here. Take it out on Webster.
darby:"what is it you "define as human?""
humans...homo sapiens...you know, people. There really shouldn't be a question about it. The offspring of any species is always the same species. This is fact.
For those of you who think Obama would let babies die???, please watch the WHOLE Debate before commenting.
And for all you ANTI-ABORTION PRO-PALIN people...so its not ok to abort a fetus, that is in MY BODY, risking MY life and future, but it is ok to kill thousands in a war? Our own young men and women who haven't even been on this earth long enough to CHOOSE to become a parent and raise a family? Young babies losing limbs and parents in a war they didn't ask for. WAKE UP YOU HYPOCRITES!
Abort technically means cancel, and I've already told you the difference between "fetus" and "baby." Aborting a fetus is canceling it before it becomes a human being. War involves sentient human beings being sent to murder/rape/torture other sentient human beings. Which is more brutal? Be honest with yourself.
"...it should be the safest place on earth." Such is your opinion. It's not fact.
Your second statement, while unrelated, is worth discussing. However, I think you need to (re)listen to the Biden clip. What he's saying is that a global crisis is coming that Obama will have to deal with as President and Commander in Chief. He's not saying that Obama will CAUSE a crisis.
"The uterus is a death chamber?" Can anyone say "alarmist"?
the conflation of a several-week-old fetus with a cute, plump, cuddly newborn baby is the anti-choice movement's number one form of propaganda, and it simply isn't valid. The moral, psychological, political, & legal concepts of "personhood" are far broader & more encompassing than "biologically human" & is also more ambiguous. Cant give a fetus full rights wo diminishing those of the woman, unambiguously a person, carrying it.
If my wife was going to die in childbirth, i would ask her to have an abortion. There's no way I'd sit and watch her die. The control of a person's body is not only unconstitutional, it is a fundamental of fascism.
Both lives need defending. My Wife's life was "defended" in an ectopic pregnancy. What ever happened to following the Hippocratic Oath.
..."I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked, nor will I advise such a plan; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion.But I will preserve the purity of my life and my arts."...
Not that outrageous, and I still don't understand all these anti-choice people who think they can decide what's right for everyone. Keep it up to the woman, I'd rather have a doctor do it in a sterilized environment than having some guy do it in a back alley with a clothes hanger. The choice is clear, stop projecting your morals on people you aren't God, you have no right to do so. Thank you and good day.
God already projected these morals. You refuse because you are immoral and love death.
"We hold these truths to be self evident" only makes sense if you are a Christian. The infidel does not regard life as a self-evident right. This Great American phrase is foreign to the infidel.
I don't know how you could have a good day with your anti-life pro-death choice.
AmishMarine, you are Amish and you hold those views? "keep [the choice] up to the woman . . . you aren't God." No, but nor is the woman - are not she and her doctor playing God when they choose to take the baby's life? "Stop projecting your morals on people...you have no right to do so." So you would also argue that we have not right to tell a mother she may not kill her 6 mo. old baby? Isn't that also "projecting our morals on people"?
I'm not telling the mother to do anything, you're the one doing that. Keep government out of people's bodies thats all I'm saying. I say that rather than just outlaw abortion, make sex-ed real, comprehensive, contraceptive readily available and COUNSELING so that mothers will choose life over abortion. I honestly find it detestable, but its not my place to say anything about it. Thats up to the woman, her doctors, and her God.
I think that you are not only rude, but close minded. Try for a minute to put yourself in another person's shoes, if you can. I believe in choice, whether it be to put your kid in sex ed, or to have an early term abortion. Whether or not i agree with it, it isn't my choice.
I am perceived as rude and closed minded because I am representing the truth. Regardless of whose shoes I'm wearing,how much mis-information we give our kids, whose choice it is, or if I agree or disagree; the truth is;abortion is killing human life by infanticide at a rate of 4,000 souls each day in America.
Obama wants Bill Ayers' indoctrination of our youngest to "alternate lifestyles."
Putting the state in charge of this is paramount to fascism. If they control reproductive right, what's next? I want to keep these issues personal they shouldn't even be political at all.
"alternative lifestyles" is one of the best examples of Conservative Smear. Instead of "focus on the family" why don't you focus on your own family and leave everyone else alone? Will gay marriage really affect your marriage? Are you that afraid of turning gay the second it becomes legal? Their is not a singe REAL reason to outlaw the supposed "Alternative lifestyles" And instead of focusing on the unborn, why not help the Born? Republican policies are very anti-child.
You impose your immorality on our youngest by confusing them with your deviant sex-ed, so YOU leave everyone elses alone.
There's no such thing as gay marriage;you don't use contract law cause you'll end up 2 old queers. Marriage is the design for babymaking and a strong family unit. Two like-designs will not reproduce. They cannot marry; pounding at eachother's stink holes will not produce kids.
Day care should be Mommy-at-home-care. Strong family units are the best daycare.
So sterile people shouldn't be allowed to get married? They can't have kids either. And the bible passage you're probably getting this anti-gay rhetoric is taken highly out of context, in Leviticus, it also lists eating shellfish and wearing polyester as "abominations" equal to homosexuality. Most anti-gay religious preachers are closeted anyway. Father Ted is a good example, they play on insecurities and fear. Open your eyes and see the love that Jesus really preached.
By sterile you mean fitting the design male and female but not able to re-produce? We have genetic testing prior to marriage for this. The purpose remains.
Read Romans Chapter 1.
Most men are strongly sexually oriented but just say no to deviant sex. Why cant you?
Dietary laws as well as others are for your protection. God is love and wants you to live a God glorifying life; you cannot if you insist on living in disobedience.
So shellfish are evil? And polyester is too? Are you really saying that wearing polyester is as big of a "sin" as Homosexuality? These rules were written to separate Christianity from paganism nothing more. I don't practice "sexual deviance" but I also realize that I don't have the right to preach to people, as I am not the son of God. If God really wanted me to be like you, I already would be, since he's "Omnipotent" so why "disobey" god?
Define righteousness please. I volunteer for charitable organizations all the time. I'm an Eagle scout. I do work for environmental conservation groups. I'm going to Thailand this summer to work with children who were victims of the sex slave industry. While you were busy fulfilling Mark 16:15 i was out making a real difference in the world instead of spreading fear, hate, homophobia, and blind obedience. I've read the entire bible, and it was a little to violent for my tastes.
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:20
well we have news for you. all are not christians living in this country. So if your relgion tells you to do or not to do something then follow it. dont thrust it on others. get it.
So if you're sterile and it can't be reversed, you shouldn't get married? It's time to realize the dark ages are over, and it's the 21st century. Women aren't just brood mothers anymore, and can contribute to society, despite what the bible says.
Oh ...but they do believe the law exists. They appeal to it on a regular basis.
Don't you your self know when someone has wronged you? Jesus said,"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. (Matthew 7:12)
Please find your Bible and just start reading. Start with the Gospel of John; you'll be amazed Dear Heart.
umm.. yes, but that's a law of humanity, you can't prove it's a law of god, or if jesus really said that in the first place. If you want to believe it, that's fine and it's your decision. But please don't go around acting like it's fact.
Wait just a minute ...law of humanity? Don't you mean conscience? Con/science means with/knowledge; mankind was a special creation of God; His crowning jewel. He created us with a conscience and with a free will!
You are free to dis-believe! This is what makes America great in world governments.
I suppose you will have to learn this the hard way.
Too bad sweety. Just remember Jesus' offer is rof a limited time only.
You sacrifice your young on the altar of hedonism as they did to molech or baaal in the old testiment. God was angry with them too. You think you'll get away with this?
Amish, I didn't say you're telling the mother to do anything. I put "stop projecting your morals on people" in quotation marks to quote what you said, simply to indicate which part of your post I was responding to-sorry that wasn't clearer.
But I have a question 4 u: if abortion only kills a fetus, why would it be detestable? The only reason I can see for it being detestable is if it is a person-but if that's the case, government has the same responsibility to defend it as any other person.
Amish, I do agree that just outlawing abortion is not enough, that counseling is also important, and alternatives to abortion made available. But most pro-lifers I know are all for that. But Planned Parenthood has protested anytime pro-lifers insist that they present truthful counseling or real alternatives.
BTW, isn't "AmishMarine" an oxymoron? Your handle intrigues me!
I just hate how people assume that I'm Anti-Life or something, I simply feel that the government has no place in this issue, I think that it is a personal choice. If the government wants to stop abortion, take a page from Europe, increase sex ed, make contraception readily available, and stop interfering. I disagree with abortion on the personal level, but honestly, i can't tell a fourteen year old girl whether or not she has to carry that baby. Right or wrong, its not our choice.
Mercury, "before it becomes a human being." So at what point does it become a human being? All these attempts 2 distinguish between fetus & baby r fuzzy & arbitrary. I've read 3 arguments for the distinction in this thread:
1) the fetus is still developing. Problem with that definition, babies continue to develop after birth (eg, closing skull cap)
2) fetus is dependent. Problem - babies born prematurely (5 mo old "fetus") have survived on their own; conversely, babies born full term have had t
had to be on feeding tube or ventilator. So by this definition, killing them would be OK.
3) 3rd reason for fetus/baby distinction - fetus is unfeeling, unaware, not sentient. That is patently false. Neurophysiology studies show otherwise. So what? you cut the umbilical cord & an unfeeling fetus suddenly becomes feeling? Certainly is a clear definition; but it has no relationship to reality. What is it about cutting the umbilical cord that magically changes the essential nature of fetus to baby?
I think that, more realistically, before the brain is developed, the fetus is still an unfeeling blob for all intents and purposes. After the first trimester ends, i don't agree with abortion unless the mother would die in childbirth, etc.
That seems like a reasonable position; consistent with determining whether a person at the other end of life is still alive based on brain activity.
But "before brain is developed" is fuzzy-how developed must it be? It continues to develop right up until child reaches adolescence. The definition consistent with determining point of death would be as soon as there is brain activity
I appreciate your disagreement with abortion after 1st tri. It shows you r trying to deal honestly with the issues
That is difficult to determine, I agree, I feel that as soon as the fetus can feasibly sense its environment, and has the ability to feel pain, it is too late, except for emergencies. So I don't mind the morning after pill, but I am completely against partial birth abortion, and I think, and hope, most pro-choice people agree with me.
I think its unfortunate that women get abortions, especially since I myself can't have anymore after my first and only daughter. But its MY BODY, MY TIME, MY ENERGY, MY FUNDS going into MY CHILD, which also makes it MY CHOICE, or ANY WOMANS CHOICE. The technology has already come. We can't go back to the days of back alley abortions. Like Obama said "We have to prevent the situation from arising, safe sex, education, and abstinance for youth programs.
I got pregnant when I was 20 to a man twice my age. It was a bad situation. I had an abortion. The pregnancy didn't pose any immediate physical health risk. It is sad that it happened but I think the abortion was the best decision to make given my situation. More importantly I think it was my decision to make and I am very grateful that I was able to. I don't advocate abortion necessarily but I think it needs to be an option. I couldn't have been a decent mother or go with with adoption then.
This is tragic. My heart breaks. I want you to know there are many who seek girls in this situation to help with every option. There is help after the fact too. You are loved!
You act as though you care? You are for seeing more and more of this kind of pain!!! You ought to be soo ashamed of yourself!!!!
This kind of pain and suffering needs to end!
If you vote for those who care you'll vote for John McCain and Sarah Palin! They love life, and America. They want to fight corruption and the wrong wherever it is found. Why do I need to say this? Are we so blind?
Are you stupid? She's saying she is grateful she had the CHOICE! She said that, although the abortion was a difficult thing for her, she thinks it was the right choice for her.
She said she doesn't advocate aboution, she is sad that it happened. If she really had a CHOICE I'm confident she would have chosen life. The pregnancy didn't pose any immediate physical health risk. This is difficult but the baby whether in her care or not would be 5now, how exciting a thought is that?
If you can't see the immeasurable value there is in life you are either blind or certainly stupid.
"It is sad that it happened but I think the abortion was the BEST DECISION to make given my situation. More importantly I think it was my decision to make and I am very GRATEFUL that I was able to. I don't advocate abortion necessarily but I think it NEEDS TO BE AN OPTION." -- I can't believe I have to quote a post that is 6 posts above yours!
I value the quality of life for those who are already independent beings over the hypothetical life of a fetus.
The defining characteristic of western civilization has been the right to life. So now we return to the barbarity of sacrificing our young on the altar of hedonism. So much for evolutionism. We're not getting more civilized when death is the answer we're getting more barbaric!
Maybe that is the "defining characteristic" to you, but I certainly wouldn't agree and I think many others would disagree as well.
As for death, I think that sending soldiers to die in a pointless war and kill men, women and children and sexually abuse and torture prisoners who are being held without charge is a lot more barbaric than killing an undeveloped fetus.
A war based on lies continues to be waged and the lives of thinking, feeling, sentient human beings continue to be lost. Fetuses are unfeeling, unknowing, unaware, and worth losing to preserve the life of someone who is already living.
Don't assume that because I'm pro-choice that I "love" abortions. I think they're awful and a last resort. However, just because I find something personally distasteful doesn't mean that I can force my ideals onto someone else.
You assume fetuses are unfeeling and unknowing and unaware but the videos show them trying to escape their killer's tools during a procedure.
America's wars are not acts of aggression but acts of national defense. We rebuild, we do not subjugate, we liberate, we fight as humane a war as possible but please don't think I love war. I DO NOT just as you do not love the killing of unborn humans. War is a last resort. I feel Life a gift from God and throwing it back in His face is the wrong choice.
Can you find me a video of this? Also, reflexive movement does not necessarily indicate awareness or even feeling in the sense that fully developed people do.
The war in Iraq was instigated by the US preemptively and all the things it was supposed to be based on have been shown to be false. If you think this war is humane, you obviously didn't hear about how within the past month or so US soldiers shot a baby in its crib (THAT I consider murder) or any of a multitude of inhumanities imposed.
The video I saw was at an event somewhere but I think you can find The Silent Scream videos on here.I can't watch without tearing up,it is so enraging.The defense of war is hard for me as it is a necessary evil to defend against evil.The evil in this case is Islamic terrorism.Iraq violated many UN resolutions and threatened with weapons already used on it's own people. Just as Iran has made statements against the US and Israel considered to be acts of war.I hope war ceases I hope abortion ceases
That's great that you've done your research, rabidfreak.
Didn't get into ectopic pregnancy, did ya?
Look up "expectant therapy" - it's where they tell a woman hemoraging from a tubal pregnancy to wait it out because treating an ectopic pregnancy constiutes an abortion.
Yes we've experienced that too! My wife is a high risk pregnancy patient we had a tubal pregnancy and we regret the loss. I expect to see it in Heaven some day though only an embryo it was indeed aborted without my being consulted and I feel the loss.
How do you like me now! I grieve! Killing a human is never a pleasant thing!
Of course it is a human it can't be anything else. And the emotion in your response should wake you up to the truth of what's happening here. If you don't kill it it is a person!
The lie to excuse the killing of people has always been to try to get us to believe it's not a person from slavery to the holocaust,it's not a person. It's something less. Wait till you're old and unproductive, will you be a person anymore! We'll see won't we? Maybe we ought to start protecting human life!
all that jibberish still doesnt make an embryo a baby.
you can't kill what isn't alive. it exists solely as a parasite on it's host, it's host which is a human and has the right to decide what it does and does not want feeding off her.
mind your own shit and worry about your own fetuses.
Give your parasites to adoption. There are families who'll take them. And love them.
This is America and I am minding business. Why do you insist on killing what isn't alive?
Your vocabulary indicates the possibility you yourself as a possible parasite on the US Government. Do you have a job? Or are you a parasite?Notice age isn't an issue here.
I think NASCAR is missing a tire monkey. These concepts are obviously over your head, and talking with someone like you is pointless. Who gives a fuck if you're proud to be a father? Any crack head can knock a woman up. Do you pay your child support? Notice IQ is an issue here.
You,re between gigs take the job. Oh yah, that's right, IQ is an issue. Too bad. Guess you're still between gigs. Hangin' with those crack heads isn't helping you. :(
oh by the way, don't vote for president. just pray to your god to put McSame and Palin the wacko in office. If you truly believed in god, you'd trust that he will work it out for you.
well Brooksfreak, "Expectant therapy" told me all about prostate health, nothing about abortion.
I know about "ectopic pregnancies", and I don't care what the Catholic church "declares" about it. This is not about religion. They have an extreme view, in my opinion. But they can have that view.
If ectopic pregnancies occur, the doctors should do what is necessary to to save the life of their patient, and make them comfortable. This should not be illegal. It is basically already a miscarriage.
Personally having fathered two baby girls and witnessing both births I know Obama is right. Killing the babies would be much safer after they are born.
You need to know what you're talking about. If you're talking about Obama's not voting on a bill in Illinois that would ban partial-birth abortion, you obviously didn't watch the debate. During the debate, he explained that there was ALREADY such a law in place in the state, and that the new bill was more of a move against choice.
Of course he's a polititian, he's only saying what will get him elected. I hope we don't have to find out the hard way what he really means. Obviously he's not in favor of life.
If you're going to assume everything he says is a lie, then I hope you give the same condemnation to McCain and Palin. Or, let me guess, they tell you what you want to hear so they're obviously telling the truth?
Oh really? Have you ever heard of the Keating 5? What about Palin being found guilty of violating her code of ethics? John McCain says that he is not Bush but he has voted with Bush over 90% of the time the past 8 years, and he's supposed to be a maverick? Palin fearmongers and stirs up racial hatred, and we're supposed to think that she's wholesome and honest when she outright lied about the troopergate verdict?
You've already found her guilty? Because McCain votes for reduction of government and low taxes he's Bush?
You are really straining at nothing to damn them when Obama and Biden are so overtly antiAmerica, Pro-death and chompin-at-the-bit to tax the last dime out of you.
McCain supported the deregulation that in part led to the financial shipwreck that is the current US economy. Obama also supports low taxes. The only people he would raise taxes on are the wealthy, who can afford to pay those taxes anyway. Our nation needs money to restructure itself and continue to function, and the money to do that comes from taxes. Obama would raise taxes slightly for the wealthy (who already pay a far lower tax rate than anyone else) to get much needed money for the govt
If you have a bucket of water you can't dip out of half of the bucket; the whole bucket is affected. That's how the free market works. We will all be affested by this socialistic re-distribution of wealth. To blame McCain for a failed Clintonesque policy of forcing the granting of unqualified loans is so typical of diluded liberal thinking.
There is a dim light at the end of the tunnel;atleast you realize the gov. has no money of it's own.
Why shouldn't people who have more money pay more taxes? It's a logical mathematical equation. I'm not talking about socialism, I'm talking about taxes going into government to keep it functioning, which we are ALL dependent upon. The majority of the subprime loans were not forced, but rather allowed and encouraged by the government at large through deregulation and use of companies like Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac.
Moreover, I would not be opposed to a slight redistribution of wealth at this point. People are suffering in our nation, and more and more are slipping towards danger, and I think it is unpatriotic to suggest that those people, our fellow countrymen, don't deserve help. Help, which comes from the government, which comes from taxes. And I think that increasing taxes on the wealthy is fine, because a tiny percentage of the population in our country holds a ridiculous amount of the wealth anyway.
I agree to voluntary beneficence to the needy, I don't know who wouldn't, but not by confiscatory taxes.
There is no virtue in robbing one to subsidize another's failure in business or we would still have ,for example, factories manufacturing buggywhips that no one needs.
I agree with you whole heartedly. People who make over a quarter of a million a year should not be crying rivers over a 1% tax increase. How greedy! I don't, however, agree it should go to failing companies though.
And I agree with you last statement. It is abominable to me that our market is supposed to be a "free market," which is used as an excuse to not help others, and then when it's the CORPORATIONS that are suddenly going to lose, THEN we need welfare for them. I can't believe that more people aren't furious about that.
They are not gonna tax the last dime out of me or the rest of the middle/lower class. Sounds like they are gonna tax the last dime out of YOU! I don't agree with the RICH getting tax breaks. A tax hike on the rich would make them have to pay what the rest of us pay. BOO HOO huh? Get off your ban wagon and go back to your war mongering. You sound like the type that sits in your breakfast nook on a laptop whilst some illegal cuts your yard and another browns your bagel so please just SHHHUSH it.
Fetus means "a developing human from usually two months after conception to birth." The term "baby," however, is applied after the birth ("an extremely young child ; especially : infant").
No, it's based on what stage of life it is in. As an infant/child, it is an independent living creature. As a fetus, it is totally dependent on, and therefore at the mercy of, the host (mother). The mother, who is already an independent, fully developed human being, ranks higher in importance than a fetus.
We hold these truths to be self evident that all men(mankind)are created equal and endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights. The right to life!
It will be dependant on it's parents until it's 18yrs old or so !?!?!
It will not be dependent on the mother after it is born, at least not in the sense that it is while in the mother's womb. While in the womb, it is dependent on the mother and the mother alone (and in fact parasitically attached). However, after birth, while it may be dependent, it is in a different sense as it is no longer physically attached to another lifeform (mother), draining nutrients from it. At this point in it's life, it is a self-sustained living creature, though it still needs aid.
A life form is punishment if not convenient, if it affects the happiness of the mother. Killing(abortion)is acceptable in this instance.
I'm hoping the use of these truthful words shocks you into the reality of what is going on here. We really do need to PROTECT the sanctity if life. If not life becomes increasingly cheaper. There is a hurting woman on here who bared her soul. Anyone notice? She's hurting! Anyone care? Real people are affected! Real lives are being KILLED UNNECESSARILY!!!!!!
Barack Obama is so radically pro-abortion he supports infanticide, as evidenced by his active opposition to the Illinois Born Alive Infants Protection Act. This makes him further left than any U.S. senator and even NARAL.
He said on the Senate floor abortion survivors are not persons.
1) NO he does not "Support Infanticide" there was ALREADY a bill in place outlining the SAME items without regard for the life of the mother. One state doesn't need to approve a bill thats already in place when a similiar yet better law already exists.
2)I'm not a hypocrite. WARS KILL BABIES. Sorry they may not be American babies, but they are babies none the less. And children. And Mothers. Support McCain/Palin, support war, support baby killing.
You don't want to kill the rapist. You don't want to kill the violated rape victim. Why kill the baby? Is it because you can't see it; kill it? WHAT!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
This isn't an experience a girl let's say 14, who was raped should have to deal with.
There should be limit's of course, but at an early stage in life the fetus is barely capable of sentient thought.
There should be a point where it's too late, but really the victim here is the mother and it's her right to decide why put her through the constant agony?.
Honestly, if you had to protect the rights of the not-yet baby incapable of thought, why not protect every sperm? i.e. Monty Python?
I believe what he is saying is that Obama is talking about Abortions being done for the "health" of the mother... you people take things so far out of context.
agentbong138 2 years ago
protect life! don't kill it.
1videoaday 3 years ago
so i guess jonayork is against capital punishment. no eye for an eye bullshit. not to go around bombing others and killing other citizens huh.
mininairs 3 years ago
PROTECT LIFE
That means to PROTECT LIFE.
A bomber, a convicted murder, a rapist, anyone deserving of capitol punishment receiving justice is the protection of life!
jonayork 3 years ago
So you get to choose if a person lives or dies as long as you decide that they are "deserving", but a pregnant woman cannot decide whether or not she should have a child? That sounds a bit paradoxical...
Note: Rapists do not get the death penalty unless they killed their victim as well...just an FYI.
lindseylarae 3 years ago
The decision is made by the convicted to forfeit their life for whatever crime justifies death. The government is mandated to a speedy and impartial trial and to execute justice. The value on taking a life is really high in this scenario ...but...
YOU on the other hand kill for the happiness of the would-be Mother. Life becomes exceedingly cheap.
jonayork 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@lindseylarae Rapists should get the death penalty at the time they are caught for the crime they have committed.
inilledra 1 year ago
you nailed it, amishmarine.
mininairs 3 years ago
Thanks, i just wish that jonayork would understand that Jesus would frown upon the hate he speaks of.
AmishMarine1 3 years ago
I'm not advocating death as you; but the defense of life!!! ALL LIFE.
But you are willfully blind.
jonayork 3 years ago
My favorite motto:
"Against Abortion? Don't have one!"
AmishMarine1 3 years ago
Amishmarine1 you are so right. And i have noticed most of the anti-abortion or pro-life guys are the same who do not hesitate to bomb and kill other people including children. where do they get off.
mininairs 3 years ago
Its a double standard to the highest degree, they feel that some life is worth more than others. I don't claim to understand the twisted mind of anyone who bomb an abortion clinic.
AmishMarine1 3 years ago
ProChoice, you misrepresented what McCain said by editing out his main point. His unedited statement was, "the 'health' of the mother-that's been stretched by the proabortion movement to mean almost anything-and *that's* the extreme proabortion position,*quote*, the 'health' of the mother." His point was not not disallow exceptions for the health of the mother, but to challenge the use of that issue as a smoke screen by the pro abortion movement to remove any constraints on abortion whatsoever.
katamanthanos 3 years ago
next we should pass a law against adultry. stop divorce. So mr. mccain shd then be stoned to death since he wants to drag all of us to the middle ages. Lets all be fair. I am a catholic and i am against divorce so mr ccain has had children out of welock and cindy mccain is then what his ....
mininairs 3 years ago
There are those who want legalized prostitution, and to legalize all drugs.
There is no longer a stigma attached to having children out of wedlock. STDs are a far worse consequence.
There are severe penalties and attached wages for divorced husband/fathers or head of household as deterrent to divorce.
Why are you afraid of protecting life?
jonayork 3 years ago
Until a child can survive outside the fetus on its own, it is a tumor, an attachment to the body, like an arm.
Even though an arm is itself, life, because it is composed of living cells, it doesn't mean it is -A- life.
The arm cannot survive by itself, so cutting it off and allowing the cells to die, is not murder, just the death of living cells.
Until a fetus can survive outside the female body, it is a group of cells feeding of the body, nothing more.
Sounds harsh, but it's true.
BalthzarSS 3 years ago
Tumors and arms will never become a baby.
Once human life is generated it needs constitutional protection.
Protect all life please!
jonayork 3 years ago
We will call it "Midas 22"
"Tractor beam"
Dude, he needs a midget and he could be Dr. Evil.
AlfTheTroll 3 years ago
American Nurses Association endorses Obama!
VOTE OBAMA!
741362 3 years ago
I better go out and buy a pack of metal cloths hanger if McCain get elected. LOL
SabrinaSilverstien 3 years ago
Yah cause those condoms just aren't working.
and ya gotta have that unwed sex!
jonayork 3 years ago
LOL I replied to you comment , under my screen name.
SabrinaSilverstien 3 years ago
First off I have NEVER had sex with anyone besides my husband , he breaks EVERY condom and won't get a visectomy , Doctors won't give me a surgicles option of sterilization, I can't use birth contols pills or IDU because of medical health issues, so before you start slandering people you should think twice !
SabrinaSilverstien 3 years ago
So abort? Where is slander? You said clothes hangers!
You sound like you have no excuses you are just going to have to kill your offspring!
jonayork 3 years ago
Unwed sex I recall, you saying I had to have unwed sex, I don't do that so, yes that was slander. Maybe I don't wan't more than one kid, maybe a can't even afford one kid, maybe I don't want kids at all. Maybe I don't want to be regarded as a broodmare or breeding animal, baby incubator, whatever you call woman.LOL By the way beautiful dog my mom love snauzchers my mom just rescued one.
SabrinaSilverstien 3 years ago
Yes I love life; this is a shelter dog :) My girls love the stuffing out of him.
Unwed sex is what you're defending and a safe way to end the life of an inconvenient pregnancy, whether it's yours or someone else's,right?
I say protect the life by surrendering the child. Why the unnecessary killing?
There is no good reason for this taking of human life!
America is great because America is good. If America ceases to be good America will cease to be great.
Alexis De Toqqueville.
jonayork 3 years ago
Ah, how nice my mom runs a cat rescue so many loving animals from shelters can be found. No I don't agree with unwed sex STD's hurt people:( I agree with legal abortion becuase we don't need two people dying ! I'm soon to have my first child, pregnancies are very rough and will ruin my chance at a college education. I honestly wish there really was no reason to ever take anyones life human or animal, but that is just not the case sadly.
SabrinaSilverstien 3 years ago
All life is sacred to some extent. We had a family of cats move under our house. I caught and had neutered them all (5)the left ear is marked then we released them. My wife cant resist feeding them they lounge all around like they own the place. The schnauzer and the yorkie are always barking at them- the cats dont even blink it's funny
jonayork 3 years ago
For the record ... STDs kill people. And there's more now than there were when we were kids.
jonayork 3 years ago
what about americans bombing other countries and killing pregnant mothers and children
mininairs 3 years ago 2
What an inane question. No mothers,pregnant or otherwise in other countries are targets.
Only in America by abortionists; where they need no bombs. Mostly children are killed but sometimes the mother too. The would-be Mother is almost always left mentally and emotionally damaged.
jonayork 3 years ago
I guess McCain's working along the legal lines of;if the State decides who gets to be executed,or not,in the Death Chamber/it's supposed to be able to decided who gets to be executed,or not,in the Birth Chamber...Roe vs Wade was not a knee jerk reaction decision by an ill informed county judge,The Supreme Court made a well studied and thought out decision on the subject.And it will never be up to a President to reverse their decision.
Taranau 3 years ago
Very good post.
jonayork 3 years ago
Thanx.
Taranau 3 years ago
Oh, snap <---(Type this into your comment box and hit audio preview, it's hilarious)
That's insane, politicians have NO right to get involved with my health.
danakscully64 3 years ago
I agree END GOVERNMENT HEALTHCARE!!!
jonayork 3 years ago
How would ending Government healthcare help people ?
SabrinaSilverstien 3 years ago
Government involvement in health care has resulted in skyrocketing prices and in unwanted intrusion in our personal lives and it uses our money to do it. Have you noticed hospital emergency rooms closing in your area? We have one hospital now.
Government should stay in the business of defense and keeping the peace period.
jonayork 3 years ago
No Govermental healthcare is good it's worked great in other countries like England, Britian, France and Canada. When Governmental healthcare is excercised properly it works great, no one should die becuase they can't get healthcare.
SabrinaSilverstien 3 years ago 2
And of course a pro-lifer would wan't health care for theunwed pregnant mother and her child .
SabrinaSilverstien 3 years ago 2
Of course; but volunteered help and confiscatory taxation are quite different.
jonayork 3 years ago
rabidfox1 3 years ago
We are not "especially" a member of H.sapiens, we ARE Homo sapiens. The Homo genus goes back to Homo habilis, which is not defined as a human but part of the family that was to begin the human lineage at 2.2mya. The family of Homo also includes neanderthalensis, floresiensis, etc. So what is it you "define as human?" I'd love ot know.... If you are going to try and preach, please don't pretend to be an anthropologist while doing so - we really don't take kindly to it.
darby2000 3 years ago
darby:"We are not "especially" a member of H.sapiens, we ARE Homo sapiens...don't pretend to be an anthropologist while doing so"
I'm not pretending to be one. I looked the words up in a dictionary and copied the definitions here. Take it out on Webster.
darby:"what is it you "define as human?""
humans...homo sapiens...you know, people. There really shouldn't be a question about it. The offspring of any species is always the same species. This is fact.
you?
Why do you insist I am preaching?
rabidfox1 3 years ago
For those of you who think Obama would let babies die???, please watch the WHOLE Debate before commenting.
And for all you ANTI-ABORTION PRO-PALIN people...so its not ok to abort a fetus, that is in MY BODY, risking MY life and future, but it is ok to kill thousands in a war? Our own young men and women who haven't even been on this earth long enough to CHOOSE to become a parent and raise a family? Young babies losing limbs and parents in a war they didn't ask for. WAKE UP YOU HYPOCRITES!
LaPayasa99 3 years ago
Who's the hypocrite? Abort means kill, fetus means baby(innocent, unborn, defenseless, baby). War is hell. Only a hypocrite would compare the two.
jonayork 3 years ago
Abort technically means cancel, and I've already told you the difference between "fetus" and "baby." Aborting a fetus is canceling it before it becomes a human being. War involves sentient human beings being sent to murder/rape/torture other sentient human beings. Which is more brutal? Be honest with yourself.
MercuryShining 3 years ago
The uterus is a death chamber when it should be the safest place on earth.
With a weak on defense president like Obama we will be attacked in the first 4 months of his presidency. That's what Biden said!
jonayork 3 years ago
"...it should be the safest place on earth." Such is your opinion. It's not fact.
Your second statement, while unrelated, is worth discussing. However, I think you need to (re)listen to the Biden clip. What he's saying is that a global crisis is coming that Obama will have to deal with as President and Commander in Chief. He's not saying that Obama will CAUSE a crisis.
MercuryShining 3 years ago
The perception of Obama is what would be tested. The enemy knows what McCain's response would be. No test needed here.
Biden was saying as JFK was tested with the Cuban missile crisis Obama will be tested. He's like shark bait to the terrorists.
The problem is; Orama's response will be the wrong one; Biden guarantees it!
jonayork 3 years ago
"The uterus is a death chamber?" Can anyone say "alarmist"?
the conflation of a several-week-old fetus with a cute, plump, cuddly newborn baby is the anti-choice movement's number one form of propaganda, and it simply isn't valid. The moral, psychological, political, & legal concepts of "personhood" are far broader & more encompassing than "biologically human" & is also more ambiguous. Cant give a fetus full rights wo diminishing those of the woman, unambiguously a person, carrying it.
Edansmommy 3 years ago 2
My use of words is to direct toward the truth of what is happening.
You are quite obviously intent on obfuscating the truth.
for example conflation;blend or fusion. There is no blending no fusion.
anti-choice;rather than choose life.
and what is alarmist is to think a mother's rights are diminished by not killing her baby, by protecting both their lives.
jonayork 3 years ago
If my wife was going to die in childbirth, i would ask her to have an abortion. There's no way I'd sit and watch her die. The control of a person's body is not only unconstitutional, it is a fundamental of fascism.
AmishMarine1 3 years ago
Watch her die? Outrageous comparison!
Both lives need defending. My Wife's life was "defended" in an ectopic pregnancy. What ever happened to following the Hippocratic Oath.
..."I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked, nor will I advise such a plan; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion.But I will preserve the purity of my life and my arts."...
jonayork 3 years ago
Not that outrageous, and I still don't understand all these anti-choice people who think they can decide what's right for everyone. Keep it up to the woman, I'd rather have a doctor do it in a sterilized environment than having some guy do it in a back alley with a clothes hanger. The choice is clear, stop projecting your morals on people you aren't God, you have no right to do so. Thank you and good day.
AmishMarine1 3 years ago
Morals = Life
Immoral = Death
God already projected these morals. You refuse because you are immoral and love death.
"We hold these truths to be self evident" only makes sense if you are a Christian. The infidel does not regard life as a self-evident right. This Great American phrase is foreign to the infidel.
I don't know how you could have a good day with your anti-life pro-death choice.
jonayork 3 years ago
AmishMarine, you are Amish and you hold those views? "keep [the choice] up to the woman . . . you aren't God." No, but nor is the woman - are not she and her doctor playing God when they choose to take the baby's life? "Stop projecting your morals on people...you have no right to do so." So you would also argue that we have not right to tell a mother she may not kill her 6 mo. old baby? Isn't that also "projecting our morals on people"?
katamanthanos 3 years ago
I'm not telling the mother to do anything, you're the one doing that. Keep government out of people's bodies thats all I'm saying. I say that rather than just outlaw abortion, make sex-ed real, comprehensive, contraceptive readily available and COUNSELING so that mothers will choose life over abortion. I honestly find it detestable, but its not my place to say anything about it. Thats up to the woman, her doctors, and her God.
AmishMarine1 3 years ago
Make sex-ed the parent's CHOICE.
Outlawing abortion=outlaw killing!GET IT?
I suppose by your endorsement of contraception you're endorsing un-wed sex too?
"Her God"as you put,it already granted life;don't throw it back in His face!!!
jonayork 3 years ago
I think that you are not only rude, but close minded. Try for a minute to put yourself in another person's shoes, if you can. I believe in choice, whether it be to put your kid in sex ed, or to have an early term abortion. Whether or not i agree with it, it isn't my choice.
AmishMarine1 3 years ago
I am perceived as rude and closed minded because I am representing the truth. Regardless of whose shoes I'm wearing,how much mis-information we give our kids, whose choice it is, or if I agree or disagree; the truth is;abortion is killing human life by infanticide at a rate of 4,000 souls each day in America.
Obama wants Bill Ayers' indoctrination of our youngest to "alternate lifestyles."
jonayork 3 years ago
Putting the state in charge of this is paramount to fascism. If they control reproductive right, what's next? I want to keep these issues personal they shouldn't even be political at all.
AmishMarine1 3 years ago
"alternative lifestyles" is one of the best examples of Conservative Smear. Instead of "focus on the family" why don't you focus on your own family and leave everyone else alone? Will gay marriage really affect your marriage? Are you that afraid of turning gay the second it becomes legal? Their is not a singe REAL reason to outlaw the supposed "Alternative lifestyles" And instead of focusing on the unborn, why not help the Born? Republican policies are very anti-child.
No daycare, healtcare etc
AmishMarine1 3 years ago
You impose your immorality on our youngest by confusing them with your deviant sex-ed, so YOU leave everyone elses alone.
There's no such thing as gay marriage;you don't use contract law cause you'll end up 2 old queers. Marriage is the design for babymaking and a strong family unit. Two like-designs will not reproduce. They cannot marry; pounding at eachother's stink holes will not produce kids.
Day care should be Mommy-at-home-care. Strong family units are the best daycare.
jonayork 3 years ago
So sterile people shouldn't be allowed to get married? They can't have kids either. And the bible passage you're probably getting this anti-gay rhetoric is taken highly out of context, in Leviticus, it also lists eating shellfish and wearing polyester as "abominations" equal to homosexuality. Most anti-gay religious preachers are closeted anyway. Father Ted is a good example, they play on insecurities and fear. Open your eyes and see the love that Jesus really preached.
AmishMarine1 3 years ago
By sterile you mean fitting the design male and female but not able to re-produce? We have genetic testing prior to marriage for this. The purpose remains.
Read Romans Chapter 1.
Most men are strongly sexually oriented but just say no to deviant sex. Why cant you?
Dietary laws as well as others are for your protection. God is love and wants you to live a God glorifying life; you cannot if you insist on living in disobedience.
jonayork 3 years ago
So shellfish are evil? And polyester is too? Are you really saying that wearing polyester is as big of a "sin" as Homosexuality? These rules were written to separate Christianity from paganism nothing more. I don't practice "sexual deviance" but I also realize that I don't have the right to preach to people, as I am not the son of God. If God really wanted me to be like you, I already would be, since he's "Omnipotent" so why "disobey" god?
AmishMarine1 3 years ago
AmishMarine1
You sound pretty preechy to me. Answer your own question ...Why disobey God?
God wants you to choose righteousness,you fail
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. Mark 16:15
You've never heard of the great comission?
jonayork 3 years ago
Define righteousness please. I volunteer for charitable organizations all the time. I'm an Eagle scout. I do work for environmental conservation groups. I'm going to Thailand this summer to work with children who were victims of the sex slave industry. While you were busy fulfilling Mark 16:15 i was out making a real difference in the world instead of spreading fear, hate, homophobia, and blind obedience. I've read the entire bible, and it was a little to violent for my tastes.
AmishMarine1 3 years ago
Oh well then I guess Jesus didn't come for you.
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:20
jonayork 3 years ago
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BunnaySango 3 years ago
well we have news for you. all are not christians living in this country. So if your relgion tells you to do or not to do something then follow it. dont thrust it on others. get it.
mininairs 3 years ago
So if you're sterile and it can't be reversed, you shouldn't get married? It's time to realize the dark ages are over, and it's the 21st century. Women aren't just brood mothers anymore, and can contribute to society, despite what the bible says.
AmishMarine1 3 years ago
Soundin' kinda' preechy here and all righteous too, wow!
Down boy. What is more powerful than a Godly Mother?
jonayork 3 years ago
what defines "alternate lifestyles"?
pimplup818 3 years ago
Our world operates with order, purpose and design. "Alternate" is a nice way of saying "deviant." Or against the design.
There is a law God placed in the natural universe; so that whether one believes in God or not, the law remains,
"Live righteously or die." That's it!
It's vital that we live right lives for ourselves and the innocent around us.
Don't you agree?
jonayork 3 years ago
I was wondering what those alternate/ deviant lifestyles were implying
If one doesn't believe in god, they won't believe the law exists (ie:agnostic here)
and it depends what you mean by right lives
pimplup818 3 years ago
Oh ...but they do believe the law exists. They appeal to it on a regular basis.
Don't you your self know when someone has wronged you? Jesus said,"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. (Matthew 7:12)
Please find your Bible and just start reading. Start with the Gospel of John; you'll be amazed Dear Heart.
jonayork 3 years ago
umm.. yes, but that's a law of humanity, you can't prove it's a law of god, or if jesus really said that in the first place. If you want to believe it, that's fine and it's your decision. But please don't go around acting like it's fact.
pimplup818 3 years ago
Of course it's fact!
Wait just a minute ...law of humanity? Don't you mean conscience? Con/science means with/knowledge; mankind was a special creation of God; His crowning jewel. He created us with a conscience and with a free will!
You are free to dis-believe! This is what makes America great in world governments.
I suppose you will have to learn this the hard way.
Too bad sweety. Just remember Jesus' offer is rof a limited time only.
jonayork 3 years ago
God is probably the biggest supporter of infanticide based on the old testament...
AmishMarine1 3 years ago
You sacrifice your young on the altar of hedonism as they did to molech or baaal in the old testiment. God was angry with them too. You think you'll get away with this?
jonayork 3 years ago
You really are terrified of turning gay, aren't you?
AmishMarine1 3 years ago
Are you hitting on me?
Dream on; just say no to deviant sex.
jonayork 3 years ago
Amish, I didn't say you're telling the mother to do anything. I put "stop projecting your morals on people" in quotation marks to quote what you said, simply to indicate which part of your post I was responding to-sorry that wasn't clearer.
But I have a question 4 u: if abortion only kills a fetus, why would it be detestable? The only reason I can see for it being detestable is if it is a person-but if that's the case, government has the same responsibility to defend it as any other person.
katamanthanos 3 years ago
Amish, I do agree that just outlawing abortion is not enough, that counseling is also important, and alternatives to abortion made available. But most pro-lifers I know are all for that. But Planned Parenthood has protested anytime pro-lifers insist that they present truthful counseling or real alternatives.
BTW, isn't "AmishMarine" an oxymoron? Your handle intrigues me!
katamanthanos 3 years ago
I just hate how people assume that I'm Anti-Life or something, I simply feel that the government has no place in this issue, I think that it is a personal choice. If the government wants to stop abortion, take a page from Europe, increase sex ed, make contraception readily available, and stop interfering. I disagree with abortion on the personal level, but honestly, i can't tell a fourteen year old girl whether or not she has to carry that baby. Right or wrong, its not our choice.
AmishMarine1 3 years ago
Mercury, "before it becomes a human being." So at what point does it become a human being? All these attempts 2 distinguish between fetus & baby r fuzzy & arbitrary. I've read 3 arguments for the distinction in this thread:
1) the fetus is still developing. Problem with that definition, babies continue to develop after birth (eg, closing skull cap)
2) fetus is dependent. Problem - babies born prematurely (5 mo old "fetus") have survived on their own; conversely, babies born full term have had t
katamanthanos 3 years ago
had to be on feeding tube or ventilator. So by this definition, killing them would be OK.
3) 3rd reason for fetus/baby distinction - fetus is unfeeling, unaware, not sentient. That is patently false. Neurophysiology studies show otherwise. So what? you cut the umbilical cord & an unfeeling fetus suddenly becomes feeling? Certainly is a clear definition; but it has no relationship to reality. What is it about cutting the umbilical cord that magically changes the essential nature of fetus to baby?
katamanthanos 3 years ago
I think that, more realistically, before the brain is developed, the fetus is still an unfeeling blob for all intents and purposes. After the first trimester ends, i don't agree with abortion unless the mother would die in childbirth, etc.
AmishMarine1 3 years ago
That seems like a reasonable position; consistent with determining whether a person at the other end of life is still alive based on brain activity.
But "before brain is developed" is fuzzy-how developed must it be? It continues to develop right up until child reaches adolescence. The definition consistent with determining point of death would be as soon as there is brain activity
I appreciate your disagreement with abortion after 1st tri. It shows you r trying to deal honestly with the issues
katamanthanos 3 years ago
That is difficult to determine, I agree, I feel that as soon as the fetus can feasibly sense its environment, and has the ability to feel pain, it is too late, except for emergencies. So I don't mind the morning after pill, but I am completely against partial birth abortion, and I think, and hope, most pro-choice people agree with me.
AmishMarine1 3 years ago
I think its unfortunate that women get abortions, especially since I myself can't have anymore after my first and only daughter. But its MY BODY, MY TIME, MY ENERGY, MY FUNDS going into MY CHILD, which also makes it MY CHOICE, or ANY WOMANS CHOICE. The technology has already come. We can't go back to the days of back alley abortions. Like Obama said "We have to prevent the situation from arising, safe sex, education, and abstinance for youth programs.
LaPayasa99 3 years ago
I got pregnant when I was 20 to a man twice my age. It was a bad situation. I had an abortion. The pregnancy didn't pose any immediate physical health risk. It is sad that it happened but I think the abortion was the best decision to make given my situation. More importantly I think it was my decision to make and I am very grateful that I was able to. I don't advocate abortion necessarily but I think it needs to be an option. I couldn't have been a decent mother or go with with adoption then.
pelecitrus 3 years ago 5
This is tragic. My heart breaks. I want you to know there are many who seek girls in this situation to help with every option. There is help after the fact too. You are loved!
How old would your baby have been? 5?
jonayork 3 years ago
How dare you patronize this woman who has given us her story!
MercuryShining 3 years ago
How dare I? How dare you?
jonayork 3 years ago
How dare I what?
MercuryShining 3 years ago
You act as though you care? You are for seeing more and more of this kind of pain!!! You ought to be soo ashamed of yourself!!!!
This kind of pain and suffering needs to end!
If you vote for those who care you'll vote for John McCain and Sarah Palin! They love life, and America. They want to fight corruption and the wrong wherever it is found. Why do I need to say this? Are we so blind?
jonayork 3 years ago
Are you stupid? She's saying she is grateful she had the CHOICE! She said that, although the abortion was a difficult thing for her, she thinks it was the right choice for her.
MercuryShining 3 years ago
She said she doesn't advocate aboution, she is sad that it happened. If she really had a CHOICE I'm confident she would have chosen life. The pregnancy didn't pose any immediate physical health risk. This is difficult but the baby whether in her care or not would be 5now, how exciting a thought is that?
If you can't see the immeasurable value there is in life you are either blind or certainly stupid.
jonayork 3 years ago
"It is sad that it happened but I think the abortion was the BEST DECISION to make given my situation. More importantly I think it was my decision to make and I am very GRATEFUL that I was able to. I don't advocate abortion necessarily but I think it NEEDS TO BE AN OPTION." -- I can't believe I have to quote a post that is 6 posts above yours!
I value the quality of life for those who are already independent beings over the hypothetical life of a fetus.
MercuryShining 3 years ago
OK you win DEATH TO THE FETUS!
The defining characteristic of western civilization has been the right to life. So now we return to the barbarity of sacrificing our young on the altar of hedonism. So much for evolutionism. We're not getting more civilized when death is the answer we're getting more barbaric!
jonayork 3 years ago
Maybe that is the "defining characteristic" to you, but I certainly wouldn't agree and I think many others would disagree as well.
As for death, I think that sending soldiers to die in a pointless war and kill men, women and children and sexually abuse and torture prisoners who are being held without charge is a lot more barbaric than killing an undeveloped fetus.
MercuryShining 3 years ago
National defense is a necessary evil killing the innocent unborn is barbaric.
jonayork 3 years ago
A war based on lies continues to be waged and the lives of thinking, feeling, sentient human beings continue to be lost. Fetuses are unfeeling, unknowing, unaware, and worth losing to preserve the life of someone who is already living.
Don't assume that because I'm pro-choice that I "love" abortions. I think they're awful and a last resort. However, just because I find something personally distasteful doesn't mean that I can force my ideals onto someone else.
MercuryShining 3 years ago
You assume fetuses are unfeeling and unknowing and unaware but the videos show them trying to escape their killer's tools during a procedure.
America's wars are not acts of aggression but acts of national defense. We rebuild, we do not subjugate, we liberate, we fight as humane a war as possible but please don't think I love war. I DO NOT just as you do not love the killing of unborn humans. War is a last resort. I feel Life a gift from God and throwing it back in His face is the wrong choice.
jonayork 3 years ago
Can you find me a video of this? Also, reflexive movement does not necessarily indicate awareness or even feeling in the sense that fully developed people do.
The war in Iraq was instigated by the US preemptively and all the things it was supposed to be based on have been shown to be false. If you think this war is humane, you obviously didn't hear about how within the past month or so US soldiers shot a baby in its crib (THAT I consider murder) or any of a multitude of inhumanities imposed.
MercuryShining 3 years ago
The video I saw was at an event somewhere but I think you can find The Silent Scream videos on here.I can't watch without tearing up,it is so enraging.The defense of war is hard for me as it is a necessary evil to defend against evil.The evil in this case is Islamic terrorism.Iraq violated many UN resolutions and threatened with weapons already used on it's own people. Just as Iran has made statements against the US and Israel considered to be acts of war.I hope war ceases I hope abortion ceases
jonayork 3 years ago
That's great that you've done your research, rabidfreak.
Didn't get into ectopic pregnancy, did ya?
Look up "expectant therapy" - it's where they tell a woman hemoraging from a tubal pregnancy to wait it out because treating an ectopic pregnancy constiutes an abortion.
Seriously, look up "christian ectopic pregnancy"
Brooks00000 3 years ago
Yes we've experienced that too! My wife is a high risk pregnancy patient we had a tubal pregnancy and we regret the loss. I expect to see it in Heaven some day though only an embryo it was indeed aborted without my being consulted and I feel the loss.
How do you like me now! I grieve! Killing a human is never a pleasant thing!
jonayork 3 years ago
it isn't a fucking human. jesus h fucking christ what is wrong with you people?
don't you understand the difference between an embryo, fetus and a child that has been born already?
how come we don't write the birth certificate as soon as the pregnancy is discovered? BECAUSE IT WASN'T BORN YET.
onlywhenprovoked 3 years ago 2
Of course it is a human it can't be anything else. And the emotion in your response should wake you up to the truth of what's happening here. If you don't kill it it is a person!
The lie to excuse the killing of people has always been to try to get us to believe it's not a person from slavery to the holocaust,it's not a person. It's something less. Wait till you're old and unproductive, will you be a person anymore! We'll see won't we? Maybe we ought to start protecting human life!
jonayork 3 years ago
all that jibberish still doesnt make an embryo a baby.
you can't kill what isn't alive. it exists solely as a parasite on it's host, it's host which is a human and has the right to decide what it does and does not want feeding off her.
mind your own shit and worry about your own fetuses.
onlywhenprovoked 3 years ago
Give your parasites to adoption. There are families who'll take them. And love them.
This is America and I am minding business. Why do you insist on killing what isn't alive?
Your vocabulary indicates the possibility you yourself as a possible parasite on the US Government. Do you have a job? Or are you a parasite?Notice age isn't an issue here.
jonayork 3 years ago
I think NASCAR is missing a tire monkey. These concepts are obviously over your head, and talking with someone like you is pointless. Who gives a fuck if you're proud to be a father? Any crack head can knock a woman up. Do you pay your child support? Notice IQ is an issue here.
onlywhenprovoked 3 years ago
You,re between gigs take the job. Oh yah, that's right, IQ is an issue. Too bad. Guess you're still between gigs. Hangin' with those crack heads isn't helping you. :(
jonayork 3 years ago
oh by the way, don't vote for president. just pray to your god to put McSame and Palin the wacko in office. If you truly believed in god, you'd trust that he will work it out for you.
Fuckin loon.
onlywhenprovoked 3 years ago
Oh now are you trying out for a preacher position?
You crack me up ... namecaller.
jonayork 3 years ago
well Brooksfreak, "Expectant therapy" told me all about prostate health, nothing about abortion.
I know about "ectopic pregnancies", and I don't care what the Catholic church "declares" about it. This is not about religion. They have an extreme view, in my opinion. But they can have that view.
If ectopic pregnancies occur, the doctors should do what is necessary to to save the life of their patient, and make them comfortable. This should not be illegal. It is basically already a miscarriage.
rabidfox1 3 years ago
Exactly right!
jonayork 3 years ago
Personally having fathered two baby girls and witnessing both births I know Obama is right. Killing the babies would be much safer after they are born.
jonayork 3 years ago
jesus christ, they arent babies.
please learn what words mean before you use them.
you people drive me crazy. calling it baby killing doesnt make it true, no ones advocating the murder of babies.
you need to read more.
onlywhenprovoked 3 years ago 4
You need to learn Obama's policy of killing failed abortion attempts. Yes this is about killing babies!
jonayork 3 years ago
present facts or go spout your rumor tabloid conspiracy bullshit at someone else.
onlywhenprovoked 3 years ago
You need to know what you're talking about. If you're talking about Obama's not voting on a bill in Illinois that would ban partial-birth abortion, you obviously didn't watch the debate. During the debate, he explained that there was ALREADY such a law in place in the state, and that the new bill was more of a move against choice.
MercuryShining 3 years ago
Of course he's a polititian, he's only saying what will get him elected. I hope we don't have to find out the hard way what he really means. Obviously he's not in favor of life.
jonayork 3 years ago
If you're going to assume everything he says is a lie, then I hope you give the same condemnation to McCain and Palin. Or, let me guess, they tell you what you want to hear so they're obviously telling the truth?
MercuryShining 3 years ago
They have always done and said the same thing. There's no cause to hold them suspect.
jonayork 3 years ago
Oh really? Have you ever heard of the Keating 5? What about Palin being found guilty of violating her code of ethics? John McCain says that he is not Bush but he has voted with Bush over 90% of the time the past 8 years, and he's supposed to be a maverick? Palin fearmongers and stirs up racial hatred, and we're supposed to think that she's wholesome and honest when she outright lied about the troopergate verdict?
MercuryShining 3 years ago 3
You've already found her guilty? Because McCain votes for reduction of government and low taxes he's Bush?
You are really straining at nothing to damn them when Obama and Biden are so overtly antiAmerica, Pro-death and chompin-at-the-bit to tax the last dime out of you.
jonayork 3 years ago
McCain supported the deregulation that in part led to the financial shipwreck that is the current US economy. Obama also supports low taxes. The only people he would raise taxes on are the wealthy, who can afford to pay those taxes anyway. Our nation needs money to restructure itself and continue to function, and the money to do that comes from taxes. Obama would raise taxes slightly for the wealthy (who already pay a far lower tax rate than anyone else) to get much needed money for the govt
MercuryShining 3 years ago
If you have a bucket of water you can't dip out of half of the bucket; the whole bucket is affected. That's how the free market works. We will all be affested by this socialistic re-distribution of wealth. To blame McCain for a failed Clintonesque policy of forcing the granting of unqualified loans is so typical of diluded liberal thinking.
There is a dim light at the end of the tunnel;atleast you realize the gov. has no money of it's own.
jonayork 3 years ago
Why shouldn't people who have more money pay more taxes? It's a logical mathematical equation. I'm not talking about socialism, I'm talking about taxes going into government to keep it functioning, which we are ALL dependent upon. The majority of the subprime loans were not forced, but rather allowed and encouraged by the government at large through deregulation and use of companies like Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac.
MercuryShining 3 years ago
Moreover, I would not be opposed to a slight redistribution of wealth at this point. People are suffering in our nation, and more and more are slipping towards danger, and I think it is unpatriotic to suggest that those people, our fellow countrymen, don't deserve help. Help, which comes from the government, which comes from taxes. And I think that increasing taxes on the wealthy is fine, because a tiny percentage of the population in our country holds a ridiculous amount of the wealth anyway.
MercuryShining 3 years ago
I agree to voluntary beneficence to the needy, I don't know who wouldn't, but not by confiscatory taxes.
There is no virtue in robbing one to subsidize another's failure in business or we would still have ,for example, factories manufacturing buggywhips that no one needs.
jonayork 3 years ago
I agree with you whole heartedly. People who make over a quarter of a million a year should not be crying rivers over a 1% tax increase. How greedy! I don't, however, agree it should go to failing companies though.
LaPayasa99 3 years ago
And I agree with you last statement. It is abominable to me that our market is supposed to be a "free market," which is used as an excuse to not help others, and then when it's the CORPORATIONS that are suddenly going to lose, THEN we need welfare for them. I can't believe that more people aren't furious about that.
MercuryShining 3 years ago
They are not gonna tax the last dime out of me or the rest of the middle/lower class. Sounds like they are gonna tax the last dime out of YOU! I don't agree with the RICH getting tax breaks. A tax hike on the rich would make them have to pay what the rest of us pay. BOO HOO huh? Get off your ban wagon and go back to your war mongering. You sound like the type that sits in your breakfast nook on a laptop whilst some illegal cuts your yard and another browns your bagel so please just SHHHUSH it.
LaPayasa99 3 years ago
Bigot
jonayork 3 years ago
McCain is really good at showing everyone how dumb he is.
shaffersteph 3 years ago 3
Asshole old man.
Goldhelmriel 3 years ago
the ULTIMATE insult to ALL women
lidaswan 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
If you think babies has a right to life; vote McCain.
If you think babies should be killed; vote Obama.
jonayork 3 years ago
If you think a fetus is the same thing as a baby, do some research.
MercuryShining 3 years ago 3
Both my daughters were fetuses needing NICU help one was 2 months premature and one was one month premie.
I KNOW a fetus is a baby!!!Fetus means "unborn baby"
jonayork 3 years ago
Fetus means "a developing human from usually two months after conception to birth." The term "baby," however, is applied after the birth ("an extremely young child ; especially : infant").
MercuryShining 3 years ago
And so you draw a line when it's ok to kill based on how old it is?
jonayork 3 years ago
No, it's based on what stage of life it is in. As an infant/child, it is an independent living creature. As a fetus, it is totally dependent on, and therefore at the mercy of, the host (mother). The mother, who is already an independent, fully developed human being, ranks higher in importance than a fetus.
MercuryShining 3 years ago
We hold these truths to be self evident that all men(mankind)are created equal and endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights. The right to life!
It will be dependant on it's parents until it's 18yrs old or so !?!?!
When do you protect it's life?
jonayork 3 years ago
It will not be dependent on the mother after it is born, at least not in the sense that it is while in the mother's womb. While in the womb, it is dependent on the mother and the mother alone (and in fact parasitically attached). However, after birth, while it may be dependent, it is in a different sense as it is no longer physically attached to another lifeform (mother), draining nutrients from it. At this point in it's life, it is a self-sustained living creature, though it still needs aid.
MercuryShining 3 years ago
When do you protect life?
jonayork 3 years ago
After it is born, when it becomes an independent life form.
MercuryShining 3 years ago
Obama would not agree with you. He deems it as punishment in some cases and that determination is above Obama's pay grade.
jonayork 3 years ago
Deemed what as punishment?
MercuryShining 3 years ago
A life form is punishment if not convenient, if it affects the happiness of the mother. Killing(abortion)is acceptable in this instance.
I'm hoping the use of these truthful words shocks you into the reality of what is going on here. We really do need to PROTECT the sanctity if life. If not life becomes increasingly cheaper. There is a hurting woman on here who bared her soul. Anyone notice? She's hurting! Anyone care? Real people are affected! Real lives are being KILLED UNNECESSARILY!!!!!!
jonayork 3 years ago 2
That woman said she thought abortion was the right choice in her case. Read a little closer.
Why should a fetus' life, who is not a person yet, override the life, comfort, and desire of the mother, who IS a thinking, feeling, sentient person?
MercuryShining 3 years ago 2
However, you didn't answer my question. In what statement, exactly, does Obama condone killing of babies after they are born?
MercuryShining 3 years ago
Barack Obama is so radically pro-abortion he supports infanticide, as evidenced by his active opposition to the Illinois Born Alive Infants Protection Act. This makes him further left than any U.S. senator and even NARAL.
He said on the Senate floor abortion survivors are not persons.
jonayork 3 years ago
1) NO he does not "Support Infanticide" there was ALREADY a bill in place outlining the SAME items without regard for the life of the mother. One state doesn't need to approve a bill thats already in place when a similiar yet better law already exists.
2)I'm not a hypocrite. WARS KILL BABIES. Sorry they may not be American babies, but they are babies none the less. And children. And Mothers. Support McCain/Palin, support war, support baby killing.
End of Discussion.
LaPayasa99 3 years ago
I see your mind is made up so I wont confuse you further with the facts like;
1)Because we are an example to the world.
Your policies will result in the continued killing of babies around the world while still in the mother's womb.
2)Attacked is what we'll get with a weak-on-defense leader like Obama.
......courtesy Joe Biden
jonayork 3 years ago
Rape, incest, Rape+Incest.
I vote abortion.
AlfTheTroll 3 years ago
AlfTheTroll,
Why kill he only innocent party to it all?
Protect human life! PROTECT HUMAN LIFE!
Why are we so blind? PROTECT HUMAN LIFE!
You don't want to kill the rapist. You don't want to kill the violated rape victim. Why kill the baby? Is it because you can't see it; kill it? WHAT!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
jonayork 3 years ago
This isn't an experience a girl let's say 14, who was raped should have to deal with.
There should be limit's of course, but at an early stage in life the fetus is barely capable of sentient thought.
There should be a point where it's too late, but really the victim here is the mother and it's her right to decide why put her through the constant agony?.
Honestly, if you had to protect the rights of the not-yet baby incapable of thought, why not protect every sperm? i.e. Monty Python?
AlfTheTroll 3 years ago 2