there goes the mountain

[PatriciaShannon]

This is so beautiful. Does anybody know how I can get in touch with the person who made the video, to see if he/she would be willing to work with a group of musicians to make Youtube videos?

I think the song "The Oneness of Being" has the potential to do well.

The beginning can be heard on reverbnation : Patricia Shannon

and you can see the lyrics there.

I also have several environmental songs that would be suitable.

And I know several musicians with some great, suitable songs

[PatriciaShannon]

The move "The Last Mountain" is in limited distribution. It's showing in Atlanta thru Thur., July 14, 2011. I plan to go to it.

[girlzgood]

iT MAKES MY CRY!!

[pennilesscripple]

that means you are human

[xyaseminsemax]

This is beautiful.

[xyaseminsemax]

This is beautiful, so moving. :) x

[pennilesscripple]

it is a beautiful song

i trust it will move people to end this industrial madness

[RadioSchizoUT]

Thank you for posting this. I uploaded a video segment from the documentary "Burning The Future: Coal In America" and I encourage everyone on both sides of the aisle to watch it.

[pennilesscripple]

great

thank you

[Eusobios]

Tom Paxton is a great musician, and this song is a piece of simple beauty... And there goes the mountain, and the ice caps, as well... Ah, well, requiem in Terra pax...

[ufofreak1947]

I, admittedly, know little of the discussion, but Crawl73, you seem to be a holier-than-thou tool, the very sort of person Jesus was constantly preaching against. Religion aside, though, the enviornment is definitely overlooked far too often by most people, and I'm sure I'm as guilty as anyone...

[crawl73]

I'm done here. My work is finished. All that God wanted me to say. It's obvious you people will be "ever learning, but never coming to the knowledge of the truth." 2 Timothy 3:7. I'd rather believe the Word of God than some Indian proverb. Yes, I AM threatened by you guys. My job depends on the lies you all keep spreading. You've been the one "making up facts". Mostly because YOU were the one feeling "threatened by this discussion." I can only hope God's message thru me got out to someone.

[pennilesscripple]

i'm interested in the truth as well, crawl

i gave you some truth about mine waste, and you chose to ignore it. if you are drinking well water next to a mine waste site, you and your family are in danger.

i don't know what you mean by 'you people.' i am one person who cares very much about you, your family, and all the people and creatures we share these beautiful mountains with.

i thought you might discount the cree proverb, but if you're sincerely looking for truth, that's a place to start

[pennilesscripple]

the information i gave you all comes from an EPA report on coal mine waste.

i understand your fear of losing your job, but i wouldn't worry. from what i can tell, you'll be fine, as the corporations' greed seems to know no end. unless, of course, they can invent a machine to replace you.

but if they cant, they will use you up until there is nothing left to use, as they do with everyone. they will poison your children, rob your grandchildren of your birthright--that is their way.

[crawl73]

People of the world, stop believing the lies of these economic terrorists! Nothing they're saying has ANY truth to it whatsoever. They worship the earth. God cannot be pleased with that. He put this coal here for a reason. What other reason could it be, but to provide energy and jobs for us? Everything they say has already been proven false time & time again. I take these lies personal. I've been fortunate to keep my job for the time being, but thousands of other men are out of work right now.

[pennilesscripple]

i'd be happy to look at anything you can show me that proves your assertions that the water is cleaner due to mining, etc.

but i know you're just making them up because you feel so threatened by this discussion.

i care about those thousands of men, about you and your family, and that is why i will do everything i can to defend our mountains for the generations to come.

[pennilesscripple]

God cannot be pleased with the wholesale destruction of his creation in the name of greed.

Only when the last tree has died and the last river been poisoned and the last fish been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.

- Cree Indian Proverb

[crawl73]

2:47, man that was beautiful. That makes a lot of jobs.

[pennilesscripple]

i'm not sure what you're saying.

can you explain?

[crawl73]

2:47 is what I liked best about the whole video. The shots going off, to create jobs! That's what's REALLY beautiful. People having jobs because of shots blasting thru the air.

[pennilesscripple]

I take it you are being sarcastic, and trying to show how cool you are because you don't care about anything. Is that accurate?

It only takes a few people to destroy a mountain, and then it is gone forever. Jobs are not necessary for survival, but mountains are.

[crawl73]

Surely you don't believe that last sentence you typed. Last time I checked, in this world, to survive, you have to have jobs. Everything requires money, hence the need for jobs. I wasn't being sarcastic at all. I really do think it's beautiful to see those shots going off, because I know people are working. And I DO care about people working, makes more sense to me. I don't try to be cool like you hippies. I'm just trying to keep my job and feed my two daughters.

[pennilesscripple]

everything doesn't require money

what is essential for survival is clean air, clean water, healthy food, and close, supportive community--which is being robbed from us by industry--500 mountains are now gone, forever--they are the source of what is really needed to survive

try to survive living in a coal slurry pond

i care about your daughters, too--and their daughters, and their daughters. i don't want them to get cancer. i don't want them to have a world without fish.

[crawl73]

I've never done anything in this country without being charged admission. Everything we need in fact DOES require the almight dollar. The mountains are not "gone" as you say. They just might look a little different for a few years. After a short amount of time, you can hardly tell anything was even done. The fishing is great around here, and cancer is not caused by dang coal miners. It's caused by things like smoking and nuclear waste.

[pennilesscripple]

and it's laughable that you think mountaintop removal creates 'jobs'--ask the coal miners what they think about that. now three men do the work of hundreds.

[crawl73]

I'll ask the coal miners. I just asked myself, I am a coal miner. How about you asking the ones that you've put out of work and are living around me right now wondering where the next meal is gonna come from for their kids because you people have come in here and succeeded to take away their livelyhood. There's thousands of them living near me right now in that bind, selling everything they own just to SURVIVE.

[crawl73]

Also, about your blind opinion about us supposedly "destroying the mountains, and it being gone forever". You people have no idea what you're talking about. If you would only open your mind up and get a little education on this form of mining, you wouldn't be so quick to put us out of work. We blast the mountains, get the coal, then build the ridges and mountain peaks back for the most part. And TREES ARE PLANTED! And we DO NOT cover up creeks and rivers, like I've heard it said before!

[pennilesscripple]

i have a lot of education about this form of mining, thank you.

i'm not interested in putting you out of work--surely that is not the only work that suits you? surely you weren't born hoping that you'd get to grow up and blow up mountains?

i'm ignoring your insults because i am sincerely interested in understanding how you see this issue.

[crawl73]

With every comment you make, you show just how UNeducated, in actuality, you are about this form of coal mining.

Let me EDUCATE you on something. If I were to do something else besides coal mining to support my family, I would have to leave the state. This state revolves around mining. All we have here basically is coal mining, the good paying jobs, or the minimum wage jobs, which we wouldn't even have if coal mining is stopped.

[pennilesscripple]

there is plenty of good work to be done that doesn't involve destruction and pollution. use your imagination. people lived in the appalachian mountains for thousands of years without coal mining, and they did quite well. now, however, they can't, because what supports life is being taken away.

[crawl73]

And one more thing, then I'll quit...there's just not enough room on here to type in all my defense on one comment reply. There's also false, misleading information about the water quality. The truth of the matter is, the water is probably actually cleaner when it reaches the bottom of the reclaimed valley fill because of the rock acting as a natural filter. It's been proven. I'd like to show you some of these beautiful reclaims (not the fresh mining that you always see).

[pennilesscripple]

ive seen so-called beautiful reclaims, and wept over what was lost.

its not about how it *looks*—its about *life*. saying a reclaimed site is as good as a mountain is like saying an inflatable plastic doll is as good as a lover.

you can't 'build' mountains, and tree farms are not forests. it takes over 10,000 years for a mesolithic forest to mature. it takes a day to destroy it, forever.

do you really think you can restore intricate creation with a little bit of backhoe work?

[crawl73]

You people may not realize this, but we laugh histerically at you all when you come in here and "weep". We call that hilarious. I didn't know there was people like that in the world. Worship God, not the earth!

[pennilesscripple]

i live in the appalachian mountains, as did my father. there are a lot of people who care about our mountain home very much. i'm sorry that you don't. i trust you will understand why we want to--and will--defend our home.

God created the earth for the sake of life, not for the sake of appalachian power's profits.

[pennilesscripple]

your comments about water illustrate how little you understand water—probably actually cleaner? definitely not. its full of heavy metals. people living near a mining operation have a 2000 x greater chance of getting cancer than those who dont.

ask the folks who live near mining sites about their water quality. if its so clean, why dont you and your daughters live on a mining site? you wouldnt have to commute, &. you could drink the water and eat the fish from the poisoned streams.

[crawl73]

What you're failing to realize is that cancer isn't caused by water. It's true causes range anywhere from smoking to nuclear waste. Me, my wife, and my daughters DO live practically on a mining site. Across the street from my house is the coal loadout from the mine I work for. Their beltline basically runs thru my back yard. We drink the water, no problem there. We eat fish from all these streams, no problem there. I can go under any of these reclaims and catch all the fish bait I want also.

[pennilesscripple]

The EPA found that people who live near certain coal waste ponds have a 1 in 50 chance of getting cancer—thats 2000 times the EPAs acceptable risk of 1 in 100,000.

The report also identified high-risk sites: Tennessee and Kentucky each have 11. And it found that so-called retired sites continue to pollute, reaching peak toxicity about 100 years after closing.

[pennilesscripple]

Toxic metals from the coal waste ponds include arsenic, cadmium, lead, selenium, boron, and cobalt, which damage vital organs such as the brain, heart, lungs, stomach, liver, and kidneys, as well as cause cancer, birth defects, and learning disabilities.

Nitrates and nitrites cause still births and blue baby syndrome. The multiple toxins are more harmful to vulnerable infants and children, and are catastrophic for wildlife and ecosystems.

[crawl73]

Well, I can sum it up about the wildlife pretty quick. That's a lie. I see it everyday at work with my own eyes. The wildlife thrive so much on these reclaims, there's no possible way to make me believe we're harming anything of their's. They love it!

[pennilesscripple]

if someone blew up your home, would you love it? if someone poisoned your water--oh wait, someone *is* poisoning your water....

that's okay with you?

we are losing 200 species a day to habitat loss and the ongoing toxification of the environment

you can earnestly find out what the truth is, or you can make up 'facts' to suit your point of view. you're defensive because you are afraid of losing your job.

can you look at the bigger picture? what kind of world are we leaving our grandchildren?

[crawl73]

One of the things God really hates according to the Bible is a liar. And that's why I feel like He wanted me to get that message out. That's one of my pet peeves, so to speak, is to be falsely accused. That's why I get so defensive about this subject, because it's simply not true. Look back at all the improvements this industry has made over the last 20-30 yrs. The environmental radicals simply cannot be satisfied.

[pennilesscripple]

please explain to me where i told a lie.

please tell me what i have falsely accused you of, as i can't find anywhere i did that.

i've watched the coal companies rape these mountains and destroy the people of these mountains for decades. mountaintop removal is not an 'improvement.'

and please tell me where i can find a source to verify your claim that water downstream of mining sites is actually cleaner.

"the just upright man is laughed to scorn."

job 12:4

[TheWarPlanet]

@crawl73 so you support coal power?

[pennilesscripple]

if you are drinking the water and eating the fish, you are putting your family's health and risk

your coal companies suppressed this report for seven years because they didn't want to have to take responsibility for the damage they have done. money is more important to them than the health of the people and the land.

is it the most important thing in your life, too? is that what you worship? people don't need money to survive, but they do need clean water and healthy land.

[animalaholic]

i love this song!!!!! i saw him in concert and i have the cd

[Wonkapoo]

Beautiful.

If ratings were enabled, you'd get five.

I love this song.

[pennilesscripple]

thank you

i love this song too

[pennilesscripple]

wonkapoo, you might like my videos 'simplify' and 'which side are you on' as well

take care

[Wonkapoo]

Do you know of a place I can download the song from?

[pennilesscripple]

not without paying, sorry :(

but you can download this video and rip the sound off of it

there's free software online that does that, i've heard

i use tubesock, which works very well and costs fifteen dollars

[animalaholic]

he wrote it when he was in japan (i think) when they were distroying a mountain for roads and stuff

[Schokkki]

?!?WTF?!?

[pennilesscripple]

you don't know about mountaintop removal?

see the sidebar

let me know if you have any questions

[RolnThundr]

just had to come back and watch this video again! great job on this vid! the song is great and the way you synced up the vid is awesome! great vid! but also a sad one =(

[pennilesscripple]

thanks thundr

i was happy with the way it turned out

nice of you to notice

yeah sad/enraging but i trust it will be a small part of what drives us to stopping the madness

one mountain destroyed is one too many

[madcowgirl4h]

Wow I'd never heard this song before but now I'm addicted. Even though it seems to be about deforestation ruining mountains, it works perfectly for mountaintop removal too. Hopefully people will get the message soon!

[pennilesscripple]

yeah cowgirl tom paxton wrote the song about both forms of mountaincide--when he wrote it (1970s i think) he was thinking of strip mining, but he referred to mountaintop removal recently in the intro to this song, saying he saw mountaintop removal sites in japan and asked what was going on and they told him 'they are taking the minerals from the mountain' and he said 'no they are taking the mountain from the mountain'

[lapislazuline]

"forests come before men-

the desert comes afterwards"

[lapislazuline]

eventually we will eat each other

[pennilesscripple]

yikes!

i think we're already doing that, in a way....

[bbbleaver]

could only imagine what i'd feel like if that was a job(s) i choose to do to feed my family. cutting down forests, blowing up mountains... and then i settled into the thought of how much money i paid back into a system that demands, eats forests and mountains, how my cups of coffee i had and how much paper i've used and thrown away. my hand may not be directly on the ax but i helped it swing.

[pennilesscripple]

yes this is a difficult subject to get our heads around. we're born into this culture, terrorized into being consumers, and terrorized into valuing power and profit over community and life.

as we seek to find ways of living without harming (and this very simple way of living has been denied us), we also need to define and address the specific agents of harm, and not get sidetracked by the (fallacious) 'we are all culpable' argument

[Christinecedar]

damn nasties that create the machines that destroy such natural beauty

[pennilesscripple]

yes the technology only serves to accelerate the harm

and it's about more than beauty, christine

it's about life

[Christinecedar]

Yes Pennilesscripple, just finished reading

Welcome to the Machine by Derrick Jensen and George Draffan. Have you read it?

[pennilesscripple]

that's the only thing by jensen/draffan i haven't read

want to soon

everything jensen writes is gold

and draffan is a hero

'the culture of make believe' and 'endgame' are superb

[pennilesscripple]

wow christine i just went to look at 'welcome to the machine' on amazon and saw that jensen has a new book out--a selection of writings--'how shall i live my life'? looks great

[Christinecedar]

Yes pennilesscripple, Derrick Jensen is my Hero!

Derrick rules!

He is the best!

[vaahti]

Just blowing up the things saves the workers some work, doesn't it? (read: it's cheaper)

Then the system can offer those unemployed workers a life that's even more miserable than coal mining :)

[pennilesscripple]

that is a major meme that, when it is dissolved, will contribute to you realizing your life's goal

--that efficiency is 'good'--

efficiency only increases the rate of the damage

[dnHooligan]

I love this sidebar.

[pennilesscripple]

i just tried to make a video out of the quote for the sustainability thingy

don't think it's gonna work....

maybe

will see

[dnHooligan]

I hope so. I always look forward to your videos.

[pennilesscripple]

nope it didn't work

but i'm posting one now

dedicated to *YOU*

[not2tees]

"We've been robbed of our right to live without harming." That's a fine quotable, penniless. We're both the victims and accomplices of the perpetrators. One of the big Canadian grocery chains has banned plastic bags from its stores, just this month, for what that's worth, though.

[pennilesscripple]

yes glad to hear that--every little bit helps

and we need to do (and stop doing) so much more

thanks tees

[QuinnEGorges]

Ugh. This is happening right now!

Why?

Powerful video, as always.

[pennilesscripple]

yes it is

why?

so we can have aluminum cans and big screen tvs

thanks quinn i don't know what else to do for a video other than ten minutes of screaming STOPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP

[QuinnEGorges]

I'd watch it.

[SohoSquare]

"the problem is our entire way of living and relating to the world". That's it in a nutshell. Though denial does come a close second. Apparently, according to one acquaintance of mine with a big mouth and talent for looking down his nose, we've always experienced climate change and it has to do with our orbit around the sun among other things. He and his five-headed family will be taking baths every day and using plastic carrier bags until the end. Beautiful imagery, PC. I've missed you x

[pennilesscripple]

thanks soho i've missed you too

yeah that's a common response--a rather bombastic denial

it seems people seem to follow the seven (or however hell the many there are) stages of grief when it comes to this issue

that is it in a nutshell--and we can live and relate to the world in other ways. it is possible. it's been done before--say, for 99% of human existence. i think we can figure it out. :P

[SohoSquare]

I hope you're right, PC. Today's news about The Wilkins Ice Shelf is a little worrying and makes one realise that the clock is ticking. x

[pennilesscripple]

it has been ticking

it's past time for us to stop contributing to the machine that is destroying our world

when we stop being cogs, the machine stops

[astreakernamedesire]

((((((((((((((((((((penniless)­))))))))))))))))))

[dnHooligan]

*sigh*

my hero

[dnHooligan]

That's one of the grooviest sidebars I have ever experienced. Thank you.

[pennilesscripple]

ha thanks

i'm a sidebar freak

you've posted some pretty groovy ones yourself

[dnHooligan]

I thought I was going to get to hang with Willy, once. It turned out to be a different Willy, but I still got to meet THE Willy.

[pennilesscripple]

he's met a lot of people

and everyone says what a great guy he is

he helps out with a lot of worthwhile projects

i love how he has used his position/fame to do good work

[uuberTOOL]

ooops.

I thought I was s'posed to pick him up, but it ended up being some other Willy. I got to talk to him briefly, a bit later in the day.

got some groovy pics, though

[ghostwise]

i feel sick.

[pennilesscripple]

yay

i mean i'm sorry you feel sick

but that was what i wanted to evoke, truthfully-a visceral, not an intellectual, response

so thank you

(i trust that makes sense...)

[ghostwise]

the thing is, it's not the first time or the last that this knowledge makes me sick. and i feel powerless and guilty because i know my disability and all the technology that accompanies it is a huge resource sink.

environmental destruction is one of the only things in the world that constantly gives me a strong visceral reaction.

[pennilesscripple]

i hear that ghost but all of us, if we are in the system, are contributing to that 'huge resource sink'--we've been robbed of our right to live without harming--we didn't ask for this

it constantly gives me a strong visceral reaction too. it's because you have a heart, and you feel connected to, not disconnected from, life.

there are things all of us can do to stop the harm. that really helps with the 'powerless and guilty' stuff (which i totally relate to)

thanks for visiting man

[AdamHintz]

That tree yanker is the most evil looking machine I've ever seen.

[dnHooligan]

The word 'rape' instantly comes to mind, when seeing it in operation.

[SkedBoard]

I'll keep say this - people everywhere needs to see the eye-opening videos!

I hear you. Mother Earth is definitely being raped and robbed of her natural resources. It's a total downer.

[dnHooligan]

That tree-pulling machine justs makes me sick. Makes me want to be a sabateur.

[pennilesscripple]

thanks sked

we can stop the rape and robbery

[pennilesscripple]

yep

i almost used that word in the sidebar

[pennilesscripple]

jerry mander speaks a lot of truth about technology. it is invented/created/manufactured to accelerate the harm. 'efficiency = good' is another meme that needs busting, big time.

[dnHooligan]

meme?

I'd like to see Ishmael become a full-length feature film. I wonder if anyone's written a screenplay...

[pennilesscripple]

yeah i was thinking the same thing

[uuberTOOL]

what's a meme? Aside from a singer's warmup.

[pennilesscripple]

oh sorry

it's an idea or thought that a lot of people believe and as a result it creates a sort of collective consciousness that has a strange force/reality even if it is a lie

(that's not the official definition, but it's what rolled off my fingertips)

like 'faster and cheaper is good' is a meme

pretty sure daniel quinn talks about memes in...beyond civilization? not sure which book

i tend to think of them as lies that keep babylon standing--like pick up sticks--we just need to remove them

[pennilesscripple]

wild

adamhintz just posted a video defining 'meme'

(memememememememeemeeeeeee)

[uuberTOOL]

HAHAA thanks. Weird how that stuff happens.

warmin up for the next vid?

[pennilesscripple]

heh every video i make feels like the last one forever

will have to wait for the inspiration fairy to club me over the head with her magic wand

[dnHooligan]

I love this video, but I really don't like watching that forest raper in action. It's a vulgar and detestable piece of steel.

[pennilesscripple]

yes and the 'genius' who invented it belongs in the same hall of shame as the inventor of napalm

[dnHooligan]

Sam Walton and Henry Ford have dedicated wings, there.

[pennilesscripple]

heh

most of conventional history's heroes were really villains

[dnHooligan]

I wrote that down tonight, in a mandatory drug & alcohol education class.

Being a good person is about the opposite of 'being a good person.'

Referring to life and our role as a mindless consumer society.

[pennilesscripple]

yep the good guys are bad guys

[dnHooligan]

I don't think there's an insult that would offend me, but I get pist several X a day.

[pennilesscripple]

actually, this is kind of telling about our culture--when i searched youtube under 'deforestation,' by and large i found very removed, mediated videos that might have shown tracts of deforestation from a distance. it wasn't until i searched under 'logging' that i found what i was looking for.

[dnHooligan]

I gotta figure out how to upload video, so my camera-free videos are more than slide shows with words.

It's amazing all the stuff on here that could be used for a real purpose, even though it was never meant to have one.

[pennilesscripple]

yeah it's always such a delight to go looking for something and finding it--i love the way it all comes together, when i have absolutely no idea if it's gonna work out or not in the beginning

[dnHooligan]

I can't believe all the stupid comments, on some of these videos...or the poor ratings. I didn't realize denial made people so angry.

[pennilesscripple]

yeah it does

they basically want to kill the messenger

hey i just saw there are some new ubertool videos up

i've been slacking on my youtube hygiene

[dnHooligan]

One's just a repost. They are both ads for IshTube.

[dnHooligan]

I get in a lot of arguments on YouTube. It affects my mood, sometimes. xD

[pennilesscripple]

me too

lemme know if you figure out how to rise above it

i haven't figured it out yet xD

kinda stay in the struggle despite all of it

[dnHooligan]

I think I need to ignore more 'unfriendly' videos. I'm in lonely, uncharted, friendless waters, when I run my mouth.

I just never learn. ~;D

[pennilesscripple]

yeah i've learned to focus on the good stuff, but it's taken me over a year, and i still get sucked into vortexes from time to time

[dnHooligan]

sometimes it's fun. sometimes it's beneficial. sometimes...it's just irritating.

[dnHooligan]

In fact, I'm arguing with some asscrack on the Woody and Willie link, right now.

[not2tees]

Hey I've been writing my "last poem"(s) for years now. But I think that's the way to go. It shows you, you do wait for inspiration.

[fionaazreal]

Well I'm a little bit more depressed now.

No doubt there are many who need to see these images. I don't know if I can take much more of them, though. They're killing my spirit.

I appreciate the effort, and hope you continue making videos nonetheless.

~Jen

[dnHooligan]

help stop it

[pennilesscripple]

thanks jen

sorry if it was too much--i wept a number of times while searching for the images for these videos

i understand the sadness

but it only turns to depression when you think that nothing can be done (and i know that feeling too)

when you realize something can be done, it turns to energy and action

[michaelispan]

Hi PC 5*s "Never doubt that a small group of thoughful,commited citizens can change the world. Indeed,It's the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead

BTW ,This quote is taped to my desk.

[DANER84]

there's something about the vids that you've had a hand in... there's definately a PC flare.

[pennilesscripple]

ha thanks dane

seems a lot of my videos lately have explosions in them :P

[ItsFilthy]

Awesome. I always get so excited when I see a new PC vid on my list...and am never disappointed. Powerful song accompanied by powerful imagery to bless us with a powerful message. Love the description box as well. BigRespect!

[pennilesscripple]

thanks for your help & support, filthy

yeah he wrote this song in the 1970s, which is kinda tragic to think about--those were the 'good old days' comparatively, as we had 470+ more mountains in the appalachian range then

now if only a youtube video could stop the wholesale slaughter of life

(every time i make a video, after post it i think of how i could've made it better. i should've had video of people flipping light switches and drinking from aluminum cans for 'there goes the mountain')

[ItsFilthy]

Maybe a remix. :o)

Yeah, that is tragic...but what isn't these days? Tragedy surrounds us.

[pennilesscripple]

yeah it won't happen but a remix of people drinking out of aluminum cans and watching a big screen tv when it says 'there goes the mountain' would be in order

[ItsFilthy]

I would like to see that.

On another note, that song has been stuck in my head for the last couple of days. :o)

[pennilesscripple]

i know it's adhesive

i've been eating and drinking it

that's the trouble with making a video--you have to listen to the same song a gabillion times

[wasy35]

beautiful and sad, well done.

[pennilesscripple]

thanks wasy

if only a video could stop the destruction....

feel like i'm spitting into the wind

[CheeezMaster]

i wonder when the snake will finish eating its tail

[pennilesscripple]

we could stop it all today cheeez

[astreakernamedesire]

true!

[popsuckits]

amazing eagle... There numbers are strong and on the rise...

[pennilesscripple]

we just lost 10 football fields of forest in the time it took you to read this comment. we're losing 200 species a day. i'm glad the eagles' numbers are rising--they are the exception to the rule, and are being protected because of their cultural significance--and the only reason their numbers are rising is because they were almost wiped out by DDT and DDT was banned (in this country, but is still being used elsewhere). their numbers are quite low if you look at the bigger picture.

[popsuckits]

Lower than historic numbers but there are many success stories with reintroduction of species. DDT saves lives if used correctly.

[pennilesscripple]

okay pop

DDT is a serious poison

(please read the sidebar)

yes i understand that there are success stories, and i'm always happy to hear them. they happen due to a lot of work by good people in the face of great odds.

i want a world where they don't face great odds. and i don't want anecdotal success stories to be used to encourage ignorance, complacency, and the perpetuation of our culture of harm.

[medicinesocks]

after a few years of statistical success in africa, the reintroduction of ddt into the environment will ironically redouble the problem it's meant to address. ddt is still banned in developed countries because it is poison! it causes cancer! it mutates and/or kills the unborn! raising the standard of living in a country, with good sanitation systems, well built dwellings, good ventilation, window screens and such, eliminates the need to use deadly poisons and is, long term, a far wiser policy!

[pennilesscripple]

hey you're back

that was fast

cool

[astreakernamedesire]

yep- thanks to sevenlamps' brilliant intervention- glad to be here

this vid is so tite!

and crucial!

i'm serious!

happy equinox to you and yours. may peace, freedom, poison free air and clean water prevail

[pennilesscripple]

yay lamps

yeah and full moon too

[medicinesocks]

short term we'll see a reduction in deaths from malaria when the program to distribute thousands of ddt treated nets and targeted interior spraying gets underway in africa. but long term-rachel carson showed us how ddt in the environment destroys keystone species like eagles, which threatens not just one kind of bird but all the interrelated life forms in the ecosystems of those species.insects mutate in a few rapid generations to resist ddt and carry stronger more virulent, drug resistant germs

[pennilesscripple]

yes she did

and our cultural forgetting is mighty fast it seems

[zzz33333]

pretty crucial.