UST!FERTE PISO THN PRIKA TIS SOFIAS FERTE PISO THN "BASILIKH PARIOUSIA"LES KAI DOULEPSANE GTA NA THN APOKTISOUN ALITHIA GNORIZEI KANEIS POS THN APEKTISAN?AS MAS PEI KAI SE MAS.OSO GIA TOUS KAINOURGIOUS NA FEROUN PISO TA KLEMENA KAI OLOI ENTOKA PARAKALO!KAI OI PROIMOI KAI OI OPSIMOI KLEFTES!OUST LAMOGIA!!!!!!!1
@1971855 o kaimenos o kouto-'ellinas'. Tora katalabeno yiati sas koroidebei ollei h europe. eiste yemati propaganda kai koutamara. Oti basilikh perousia hpyrxe ytan kai einai dikatous. me dikatous lefta agorasan to tatoi kai olla ta alla. H ellada sou kurie dev eixe pou na katourisi. oi basiliki oikogenia plyrone gia OLLA to exoda teis yiati eseis dev eixate tipota. Ti na klepsouv? Ta brakia teis mana sou? Afou dex eixe! Aftoi htav o logos pou eixe h ellada timi kai sebos twpa ti?
ΒΑΣΙΛΕΙΣ ΠΟΥ ΕΠΕΒΛΗΘΗΣΑΝ ΣΤΗ ΚΑΜΕΝΗ ΑΠΟ ΤΟΥΣ ΜΟΓΓΟΛΟΥΣ ΓΗΣ ΤΩΝ ΕΛΛΗΝΩΝ ΤΟ ΑΝΤΙΤΙΜΟ ΓΙΑ ΤΗΝ ΣΥΝΔΡΟΜΗ ΤΗΣ ΔΥΣΗΣ ΣΤΗΝ ΥΠΟ ΟΡΟΥΣ ΑΠΕΛΕΥΘΕΡΩΣΗ ΤΗΣ ΠΑΤΡΙΔΑΣ ΜΑΣ ΩΣΤΕ ΝΑ ΕΥΡΙΣΚΟΜΕΘΑ ΥΠΟ ΤΟΝ ΕΛΕΓΧΟ ΤΩΝ ΜΕΓΑΛΩΝ ΔΥΝΑΜΕΩΝ ΟΙ ΠΙΟ ΠΑΝΩ ΠΟΤΕ ΔΕΝ ΥΠΗΡΞΑΝ ΒΑΣΙΛΕΙΣ ΜΟΥ ΔΙΟΤΙ ΔΕΝ ΕΙΝΑΙ ΕΛΛΗΝΕΣ ΤΟ ΓΝΩΡΙΖΟΥΝ ΚΑΙ ΤΟ ΠΙΣΤΕΥΟΥΝ Ο ΤΕΛΕΥΤΑΙΟΣ ΒΑΣΙΛΕΑΣ ΜΟΥ ΕΠΕΣΕ ΗΡΩΙΚΩΣ ΜΑΧΟΜΕΝΟΣ ΣΤΗ ΠΥΛΗ ΤΟΥ ΑΓΙΟΥ ΡΩΜΑΝΟΥ ΣΤΗ ΒΑΣΙΛΕΥΟΥΣΑ ΚΩΝΣΤΑΝΤΙΝΟΥΠΟΛΗ
Achievements of the Greek Republic: Turkish invasion in Cyprus, corruption, anarchy,plutocracy and finally a society full of illegal immigrants and beggars. Furthermore Greece is moraly and financially bunkrupt. Kudos to all republicans.
Greece has been degraded to a thirld world level. Bravo democracy! Well done!
The KING needs to return back to Greece! I don't know why they disliked him. He has more knowledge and balls then anybody else who ever ruled Greece. Look at the country now. Disaster! Drama! Chaos! But it's too late now.
@sylviaphryne: I agree! But he never wanted to be there in the first place. His heart & soul belongs to Greece! What happened to him and his family is a terrible tragedy!
He could have lived in Greece in the same way that the former king of Portugal lives in Portugal. However he refused a Greek passport on the grounds that he did not have a surname.
When your "heart & soul" belongs to a country you at least adopt their customs. Greek people since times immemorial had two names: one in the nominative case followed by another in the genitive case: e.g. Αἰσχύλος Εὐφορίωνος.
When his family's on and off time in Greece is calculated you will find that they lived about 90 years in Greece. This is less than a drop in the ocean in terms of Greek history.
Considering what the Greek people have suffered during such a relatively short time, I think that your commiserations are rather misplaced.
Many Greek families never recovered as a result of the Glücksburg recklessness and my heart goes to them rather than this jolly Danish family!
αν ειχαμε σημερα τον Βασιλια η Βρετανια,η Δανια,η Σουηδια...(οι χωρες που εχουν Βασιλια) θα ειχαν αναγνωρισει τα Σκοπια με το ονομα Μακεδονια?Οσο υπηρχε ο Βασιλιας οι Τουρκοι δεν τολμουσαν να κανουν παραβιασεις στο Αιγαιο ενω απο την μεταπολιτευση και μετα συνεχως το κανουν
για πες μου εσυ πως εγιναν?....δεν μπορω να καταλαβω την εμπαθεια σας στο προσωπο του Βασιλια.Ο Βασιλιας φταιει για την σημερινη κατασταση.Βριζεται τον Βασιλια και εχετε κανει ηρωες τους προδοτες Κ.Καραμανλη και Α.Παπανδρεου
einai faidro na asxoli8oume to 2010 me vasiliades. ntropi apla. oso gia ton karamanli kai ton papandreou, se anti8esi me vasiliades kai xountes exoun kanei fovero ergo gia tin ellada me ola ta kala kai ta kaka pou to synodeysan. arkei na vgaleis tis kommatikes paropides gia na to anagnwriseis. istoria den ginetai na sou mathw sto youtube. kali xronia.
εργο ο Καραμανλης και ο Παπανδρεου?νομιζω οτι εσυ πρεπει να μαθεις ιστορια,εκανε εργο ο Καραμανλης που ειπε οτι η Κυπρος ειναι μακρια και ο Παπανδρεου που καταχρεωσε το Ελληνικο δημοσιο?
Δέν θα τον ψήφιζα αν υπήρχα και είχα ψήφο τοτε. Όμως όταν το είπε αυτό ο Καραμανλής, τον Αύγουστο του 1974 η Ελλάδα δέν ήταν σε θέση να αμυνθεί ούτε τα σύνορα της. Άσε που θα βοηθούσε την Κύπρο.
....γιατι ειναι ντροπη να ασχολουμαστε με Βασιλεις?δηλαδη η Δανια,η Σουηδια...που εχουν Βασιλια ζουνε 100 χρονια πισω?ενας βασιλιας προσφερει πολυ περισοτερα απο εναν Προεδρο...η ιστορια δεν ειναι γραμμενη σε greeklish για αυτο και δεν εισαι το καταλληλο ατομο να διδαξει ιστορια
He wasn't a king anymore, but was he not responsible for instigating the removal of the military force which George Papandreou managed to place on the island owing to a pending Turkish invasion earlier?
Now, why should Johnson request that he should instigate such an action. Why should someone request that you should reduce your country's security? Could it be that he was so naive and obliged?
I comment in English because I am not Greek and it is easier for me. You don't have to respond.
He wasn't responsible because the King does not have so much power in a constitutional monarchy.The King is a Symbol and the Leader of the State is the Prime Minister.The Prime Ministers have destroy Greece not the King
EmperorOfTheHellenes - In Constitutional Monarchy the king is simply occupying a decorative office. Was the the office infested by the Glücksburgs constitutional. In the case of Beloyiannis Paul even speeded up the date of the executions ignoring public opinion in Greece as well as international outrage. Not even the Home Office Ministers had authority to "order" executions even back then.
It is also the little matter of George II's failed coup, exile, second attempt and eventual dictatoship.
EmperorOfTheHellenes - Never in a democracy, whether under constitutional monarchy or not, civilians are tried in a military court and shot because they support a political party which does not approve of monarchy - especially in Greece the country where Democracy was conceived and inspired all successful democratic movements in the West.
EmperorOfTheHellenes - @ Re: The king does not have much power.
This one did. It just happened that his "power" was the most powerful democracy on earth, and simply decided that his family served their purpose. Their "use by date" had long expired. There was a more promising and willing satellite in the Middle East to look after their interests in the region where pro-Americanism was unanimous. Besides they proved that they could neutralise their enemies' coalition in 7 days.
Beloyiannis was agent of the Soviet Union so I believe that the King did the right thing. Do you compare Athenian Democracy with today's democracy? Platon at "The Republic" say that Democracy is one of the worst Forms of Government. I don't believe in Democracy. Greece was strong with Monarchy from Ancient to Modern times.
EmperorOfTheHellenes - Believing whether old Glücksburg did the "right thing" by endorsing torture and the systematic elimination of anyone who opposed his family's regime, is a different matter altogether. We are on the subject of "constitutional monarchy". Obviously what you subscribe to is not what you describe as "constitutional monarchy." There hasn't been a constitutional monarchy in Europe where citizens are tried by a military court -- from what I looked up afer Napoleon III at least!
EmperorOfTheHellenes - Plato via Socrates compares different systems of government in the Republic in order to stimulate debate. He encourages the participants to see the pros and cons which can result by the excesses of EACH system - not just of Democracy. If you go back to where they agreed on a definition for "Justice", then you will be reminded that the rest of the book is a playful exercise to "invent" a Polis where their form of "custom made" justice could be at home.
EperorOfTheHellenes - @ Greece was strong with Monarchy ... [sic]
Perhaps you think of Sparta. If you compare any pair of Spartan kings with any of the Glücksburgs you will find that the latter wouldn't have survived a sunset in 5th century BC Sparta. Infact the scrutiny to which the Spartan kings were subjected 2,500 years ago would make even the most constitutional of kings to resign their office.
Re: monarchy in modern times: How did Constantiine (I) strengthen Greece?
EmperorOfTheHellenes - Re: Greece being strong under monarchy (in modern times):
Surely a strong country does not need to be afraid of its critics. Do you measure a country's strength in terms of numbers of political prisoners? When Frederica was spat on by demonstrators outside Claridges in London was it because the British envied the "strongest" queen in Christendom? In the footage where the Glücksburgs are booed in London (1963) do you see representatives of a strong state?
EmperorOfTheHellenes - @ "I don't believe in Democracy" [sic]
Then you are at odds with Mr DeGrecia - in these days he doesn't miss an opportunity to speak about democracy, democratic processes, and his "respect" for the will of the people.
It seems, therefore, that Mr DeGrecia would be seriously displeased with an admirer who does not subscribe to democracy. I hope he doesn't read your comment because he would be frightfully distressed!
our theme isn't democracy but the King.Glucksburg dynasty help Greece a lot.Under the rule of George I Greece doubled her Size.And Constantine I in command of the Army free Macedonia,Epirus.George II with Metaxas(Fascist Greece) win the Greko-Italian war and made a strong defence from Germany.We can't compare the Spartans with today Greeks.The Spartans were born to fight.
Your reference to "constitutional monarchy" landed us on the theme of democracy.
My reference to Sparta was within the context of YOUR comment as regards monarchy having made Greece strong in ancient times. Naturally, as any form of tyranny was an anathema for Athens, you could only be referring to Sparta.
I therefore do not compare the then Spartans with today's Greeks but their kings to all present kings - you having introduced the subject!
only Athens got Democracy and thats why it lost the Peloponesian War because the people of Athens vote for the Campaign of Sicily.Sparta,Macedonia,Kingdom of Mollosians...etc,Eastern Roman Empire were Kingdoms.Even in a today democracy the King for the Greeks it will be a symbol of the Past even if he did wrongs
Emperor__ That's not correct; Thucydides gives the complete list of the democratic poleis as well as the oligarchic under the two leagues.
You may recall that till Alcibiades' betrayal, in Thuc. 6, Athens had the upper hand. From Xenophon you would find that the outcome of the war was decided with Persian gold.
The reckless campaign in Sicily is interesting on many levels :-
1 - See last speech of Pericles Thuc. 2.63
2 - A lesson from history: YOU NEVER CHANGE ANYTHING IN A VICTORIOUS WAR!
Emperor_ Re: my comment that you should never make changes while you are winning a war:
Issuing an arrest warrant Alcibiades screams to be connected with the recklessness of the "king's party" during the Asia Minor Campaign - which might or mightn't have been wrong.
As the Polis failed its soldiers in Sicily back then, so did Greece failed everybody in during the A.M. Campaign.
Re: Thuc: 2.63 - Pericles warns them that they are now managing something which developed into a Tyranny!
Emeror__ Issuing an arrest warrant against Alcibiades forced him to seek refuge in Sparta. We are not given sufficient details as to how such a warrant materialised. However we know of the existence of an oligarchic faction in Athens which did not want to see the Sicilian Campaign succeed - inspite of the cost in human life. Compare with the "king's party". Even a first year student of Strategic Studies would question as to the real motives and hopes behind Constantine I's reckless interference.
Emp_ The Sicilian Campaign was totally unnecessary and was undertaken in time of peace with Sparta.
By then Pericles had been dead for about 15 years. That was the first experience of Democracy with very few safety nets. Even today democracies tend to forget how they came to be: e.g. America fought George III in the name of Democracy. Yet during Bush's administration, a democracy had to be "with us or against us". Compare with the Athenian reasoning in the Melian Debate!
Emperor..etc - @ "only Athens got Democracy and thats why it lost the Peloponesian War"
1. Only Athens? Check!
2. The Battle of Marathon in 490 BC has been the turning point that determined the future of our Western culture and it materialized because of Democracy. The West would have been different today if that battle was never fought.
Emperor_ -@ "Glücksburg dynasty help [sic] Greece a lot"
Don't you think that Greece could do without such "help"?
Greece owes them the resignation of dozens of democratically elected governments, the Asia Minor disaster, at least three dictatorships in two of which the Glücksburgs were directly involved, Cypurs betrayal, death and torture facilities on the islands as late as the 1960s, not being able to study in the University unless you produced a "Certificate of National Consciousness"
EmperorOfTheHellenes - At times I have to address you with only part of your screen name because if I were to enter it in full it would use up 20 of the 500 characters we are allowed.
Emperor__ - Not only on University level but also at school it is emphasised that "inspite of the brutal regime of the German/Danish king" the people of Greece united against Fascism in a futile attempt to defeat the beast as an invader since they could not defeat it from within.
It seems that today the only ones who subscribe to the dictator's "heroic" OXI are those who still suffer the after effects of TRUTH to which they have been unaccustomed for too long and are in denial.
You can't deny that Metaxas said "ΟΧΙ".He was a dictator.He could surrender if he want.But he was Nationalist and in his regime the Nation was above all.
Asia Minor Campaing is very complicated story,and my English are not so good to analyze it
Yes! He could have surrendered. BUT he would be surrendering himself only to the militaristic regime and the ridiculous fat dictator on which he modelled himself - up to the detail of his fascist salute. The result would have been fighting with him and Glücksburg against Greece. One lesson from history is that many dictators have been saved by the sudden appearance of an enemy - e.g. the Glücksburgs with the collaborators of the German Occupation were served well by the "communist threat".
Sylvia - "... the Glücksburgs ... were served well by the communist threat"
Most certainly! Without them all the parties opposing the return of the Glücksburg regime would never have united. This does not mean that they became pro-Glücksburg all of a sudden. Anti-communism does not equate with pro-monarchism. This is best demonstrated by the decision of the Americans to kick out the representatives of George III of Great Britain.
It's perfect and better than Dagmar's; but if you want you could respond in Greek (using Greek letters).
Re: The Asia Minor fiasco:
Whether the campaign should have been undertaken or not ought to have been a secondary issue once your boys were there. You can't send an army to fight a war and then decide to call elections under the banner: "Do not vote for Venizelos if you want to see your children again".
Can you imagine George V being part of something like that?
We mustn't go to Asia Minor it was a stratigic fault.And when Benizelos realize this he did election because he knew that Greeks sympathized the King so he lost the elections and the King party was in rule when we lost the Asia Minor Campaing...and they pay for this all the Ministers of the Goverment executed after that
Yes, but "you" went and you did so with a strategic plan which couldn't fail unless someone tried hard from home.
The antagonism between the Glücksburgs and Venizelos goes back to 1905 when Prince George tried to steal the show demanding absolute power over the Cretans. Every step of the way the family opposed him after that.
There are similar disastrous enmities in modern history but never between fellow citizens - e.g. Eden and Nasser, Kennedy and Castro, Bush and Saddam ...
The executions were a disgrace. Venizelos opposed them. Apart from one, those accused of high treason were all a nasty piece of work - not just incompetend. The speed with which the sentences were carried out suggests that some party wanted to silence them up.
The Glücksburg were aware that the Ionian Greeks were emotionally as well as traditionally against them being there.
Even contemporary Western governments knew that the plebiscite that brought the Glücksburgs back was heavily rigged.
Nobody is born to fight unless he belongs to an animal species biologically programmed to kill. Higher primates such as humans need to be conditioned for the desired effect to be achieved.
The Spartans being a minority in their own state had to be prepared for a Messenian revolt.
There are numerous battle accounts of the Spartans losing in straight pitch battle. Willingness to take losses has its limitations even in authoritarian regimes.
EmperorOfTheHellenes: Your reference to George I:
Are you familiar with the incidents that led to the resignation of the government of Trikoupis?
Would you approve of a prince with no political office or role in government giving orders to a force of irregulars to open fire against a group of striking workers demonstrating peacefully? The prince was Constantine I. His father defended the murderous and unconstitutional action of his son. The Government resigned! Constantine was delighted!
Trikoupis was a Prime Minister who destroy Greek economy.But it was different and more violence times.anyone can do wrongs.The same prince Free Macedonia and Epirus when he was in command of the Army.Why we see ony the faults of the Royal Family?They help Greece a lot
EmperorOfTheHellenes: Italy had at least one Primeminister or Minister responsible for bombing their economy every Saturday afternoon since WW2.
The best formula for a leader's political assassination, since the St Petersburg Massacre, is to "encourage" him to give an order to shoot against demonstrators.
Ofcourse, anyone can make mistakes. Political leaders are elected to do human work. But they are ELECTED. If we are not happy with them, then, we elect someone else hoping for the best!
EmperorOfTheHellenes: Dagmar is hinting towards a comparison between the Sicilian and the Asia Minor fiascos. Do you want to express an opinion? The similarities are that they were both disastrous, unnecessary, mismanaged inspite of early success, and they were both betrayed by a home faction which opposed those who instigated them as a matter of principle.
Do you think that the stance of Constantine helped?
both Asia Minor and Sicilian Campaing were fault of the Public Opinion.Constantine without any support of Antant,tried to end the war,occuping the capital of Turkey.he failed.Why is his wrong?Venizelos start Asia Minor Campaing
EmperorotheHellenes> It was not on account of the country's economy that Trikoupis resigned. It was because George defended his son's action to order a temporary force, encamped in Athens, to shoot at striking workers. They were poor workers who wanted to improve the living conditions for them and their families. Those who were killed or wounded had families and friends who eventually had children and grandchildren. Do you think that they all ended up being royalists?
as i said it was different times,and in Greece that hapened a lot of times.Venizelos asked Antant forces to bombard Athens to force the King to resign.He doesn't kill Greeks?why Venizelos is the "Good man" of Greek History?
During the early months of 1947- US bombers were taking off from Phaleron and after a quick landing at Eleusis, to change their insignia into Greek, they were taking off again to bomb Greeks resisting the Glücksburg nuisance.
Re: Venizelos as the good man of Greek history:
Today we prefer a scientific approach to history. The history texts we use in the West are not taken seriously if they attempt to guide the reader.
I was not taught whether Venizelos was good or bad.
Emperor_ In May 1956 in Athens, Glücksburg-controlled police and troops shot dead 3 demonstrators outside our Information Office and wounded 200. The reason was because they were demonstrating against the hangings of freedom fighters in Cyprus.
They could not demonstrate outside the British Embassy because it was blocked off by army barrigades.
Did the Glücksburgs care for Greece, or just to please their Western employers?
Emperor_ While the Glücksburg regime continued to suppress any anti-British and anti-American feelings in Athens, with shootings and beatings, in the British House of Commons the government of Eden was criticised severely for the treatment of the Greeks in Cyprus. There were demonstrations in favour of Union of Cyprus with Greece where British MPs participated.
For the Glücksburgs any criticism of their sponsors was an anathema.
As a philhellene I fail to understand your sympathies!
what has the union of Cyprus with Greece with the King?George Grivas leader of EOKA at the Greek Civil war he was the leader of "Organization X" a royalist and anti-communist organization.
Frederica's involvement and collaboration with Karamanlis to exert pressure on Makarios to sigh the unworkable Treaty of Zurich is extremely well documented in academic texts. The year was 1959. It was Frederica and Karamanlis; not Frederica and Paul who ran the show.
The British ought to have stayed in Cyprus at all costs. Why? This was the principle on which ΙΔΕΑ was founded. All army officers from the rank of a major were members. Paul was the "highest ranking officer".
EOKA was the right organization aiming towards the right goal but with the wrong leader. Makarios was wrong to associate himself with a former Nazi collaborator. Still the Greeks of Cyprus backed fullheartedly EOKA - till the moment Grivas started babbling about "defeating the internal enemy". Soon he became responsible for more Greek deaths than British.
His formation of EOKAb confirms as to the kind of person he was and for whom he worked. The rest is history in the Herodotian sense!
You seem to equate disapproval of communism with royalism. Perhaps if communism were around at the time of the American War of Independence the American Patriots would have been labeled as communists.
Are the French, Germans, Finns, Austrians, Italians, Swiss, Americans, Portuguese, Icelandics, etc ... etc ... communists?
The X-Gang provided a useful umbrella for many Nazi collaborators, as well as criminal elements, unrelated to politics.
They all knew that "support" for the Danes would confuse the issue and give them an element of legitimacy.
If you have been following all De Grecia's interviews on British TV, he hints on the subject. However, to say that "mistakes were made" is not enought. If he were a disgraced Primeminister he wouldn't be re-elected. Why should a foreigner be reconsiderered?
ΑὐτοκράτωρἙλλήνων - Don't you think that it is a bit lonely in the forum with the fascist march, composed for DeGrecia, where only you is allowed to comment, as a representative of his last hope?
no because it isn't necesary correct whatever says the most.We believe in the Greek ancestry of our dynasty but ever if we are wrong,we prefer our "Danish" King than our Jew Prime Minister
This is fascinating! You could form a "Danish Party". Everybody has to start from somewhere. After Independence, your political parties were named after the country supporting them - e.g. the English Paty, Russian Party, French Party and so on. But there was never a Danish Party because the Danes never participated in any way by means of assistance during Greek Revolution.
Please note that the march in the other forum, is (musically) Germanic.
Judaism is a religion, and the religion of your PM is Christian Orthodox.
You may find that many famous 5th century BC Athenians were not Greek but were welcome into Athenian society because they shared the same values - e.g. Herodotus was a Carian. The very symbols of Athenian Democracy Harmodios and Aristogeiton could trace their family to Phoenicia, and, surprisingly, the Alcmaeonidae - i.e. the family of Pericles and Alcibiades.
Emperor - Surely you can see the difference between your PM's family and the Glücksburgs: Did the family of your PM come to Greece for the purpose of becoming Prime Ministers? Or, they came to work and gradually achieved a political office - which in any case was democratically elected!
The Glücksburgs came to Greece, for a sole reason: to lord it ove a country that only recently liberated itself. Did they help at all towards the liberation?
there were not a Danish Party in Greece because Denmark were not a Superpower as Britain,France and Russia. In Greece now we have the Papandreou and Karamanlis dynasty...the most prime ministers are coming from these 3 dynasties`
EmperorOfTheHellenes - Who is to blame for that? We also have the Mitsotakis clan with a change of names.
In Argentina the Peron dictatoship brought them Eva Peron and later Isabella Peron.
In the US there was a George Bush sr and a George Bush jr. We can not go back to square one every time we are not happy with the government. We can exert our democratic rights and vote someone else in the next elections. We can not overthrow an elected government we do not like at the drop of a hat.
There was a very strong French party although France was not a Great Power as such. They were still recovering from the Napoleonic Wars and were themselves experimenting once again with monarchy. A large Greek minority put their trust in them. Such trust was misplaced.
Forming political parties on the basis of which country was more likely to protect Greece created a culture of dependence which lasted as late as the mid-seventies.
Tanya - Also according to what you pointed out elsewhere the Russians as a Great Power were a giant with feet of clay, and I agree. Their attempts to be seen as a naval power have taught us a useful lesson: How not to built a navy, and how not to use it. It eventually culminated in 1905 when Japan sank their fleet in a few hours. Also at Navarino, their role was minimal. British Navy took the lead; the French and Russians followed!
There is a party-in-waiting at present in Greece that wants to take your country back to an era of dependency. But today in 2010 Greece is not as useful as it was when the British Empire began to lose its colonies and the US had to fill in the vacuum. Besides they have their own state in the Middle East which is a nuclear power.
Greece should look forward and not retreat into the past every time an obstacle is faced.
Regarding political leaders coming from the same families, it is very common since antiquity. It just reflects the fact that some families are more politically aware than others. There is no harm to that as long as the process takes place within a democratic frame.
@podaleiros And who decides whether he were right or wrong? Churchill, like the Platonic Socrates, was often critical of democracy, like all of us in the free West. However, once the alternatives are considered we are all too pleased to work towards perfecting the best system of government available to us.
Have you considered the context within Spengler wrote his book, and in anticipation of what?
I remember you; I think it was three years ago. About 15 of us were posting at the same time.
Exactly! Churchill's son, Randolph, was elected as an MP in the UK while the old man was in office. He was given a chance, he was not found adequate, and he was not re-elected. That's democracy!
Sylvia - I can't wait to see Kokos followed by "EmperorOfTheHellenes" wih epaulets, golden ribbons, Napoleonic hats and feathers, marching against the Greek Parliament to save the country from its elected government.
EmperorOfTheHellenes - Τότε άν είμαστε βάρβαροι, επειδή διώξαμε τον Γεώργιο Γ, της Αγγλίας, δέν σε μειώνει να ξέρεις ότι μέχρι το 1974 εμείς απεφασίζαμε ποιά των κυβερνήσεων σας θα έμενε στην αρχή και ποιά όχι?
EmperorOfTheHellenes - Το 1967 απεφασίσαμε ότι επλησίασε η ημερομηνία λήξεως των Γλυξμβούργων. Μετά απο την κρίση στο Σουέζ το 1956 μας ήταν άχρηστοι και ήτο πλέον ζήτημα χρόνου.
Το θεμα ειναι οτι δεν πρεπει να αποφασιζουν οι Βρετανοι ποιοι θα κυβερνησουν την Ελλαδα αλλα οι Ελληνες.Ειναι πολυ γνωστο οτι συμβαινει αυτο.Στην Αθηνα οπου γυρισεις το κεφαλι σου θα δεις ενα αγαλμα του Βενιζελου αλλα ο Κωνσταντινος ο Στρατηλατης εχει ενα
EmperorOfTheHellenes - I am not British. I am a US Citizen working and studying in the UK. I should not have spoken in the first person plural.
@ Statues - James II had to run for his life from England. Yet, there is a statue of him dressed like a Roman emperor outside the National Galery at Trafalgar Square.
1830-1945 ειχαμε Βρετανους,1945-2010 εχουμε Αμερικανους.Το νοημα ομως παραμενει το ιδιο.Αυτο που θελω να πω για τα αγαλματα ειναι οτι ο Βενιζελος που υποστηριζονταν απο τις μεγαλες δυναμεις, εχει παντου αγαλματα
EmperorOfTheHellenes - With hindsight, after all the national disasters, dictatorships and civil wars, don't you think that it would have been better if the Great Powers instead of a monarch had sent a committee of experts to help Greece get back on her feet after the Liberation? This would have been for a specific period, e.g. 20 years subject to an extension should it be necessary.
EmperorOfTheHellenes - EmperorOfTheHellenes - She speaks about the US not Britain. After 1945 what used to be a British sphere of interest, was taken over by the US. Churchill was invited to help with troops by George II. However they could not cope, and Churchill involved the US who were more effective.
There are also statues of Charles I, in Britain all over the place. But do you know what happened to him?
EmperorOfTheHellenes - Well, surely for that, neither the British nor the Americans are responsible. They are not the ones who financed the projects. There are streets in Athens named after some of those who served as monarchs. Of all the foreigners who had a street named after them, I think only Byron deserved it.
Sylvia - @ "Of all the foreigners who had a street named after them, I think only Byron deserved it."
Certainly Byron contributed towards increasing awareness about Greece, but I feel that Hastings part in the revolution has been greatly overlooked by both Greeks and British. There is only a small commemorative inscription with his name at Messolonghi. He was the most useful of the Philhellenes in the field, and void of any vanity and ulterior motives unlike some of them.
Regarding statues for Vanizelos: I really do not know how many statues of him are around. However, his contribution to the Greek nation can not be exaggerated. Towards Creetan independence for, example, the monarchs contributed next to nothing in comparison with Venizelos. When all the hard work was done Constantine turned up, like the ace of spades, on the island, as a High Commissioner ordering people about disrespectfully like a little sultan.
Sylvia - @ "Of all the foreigners who had a street named after them, I think only Byron deserved it."
Certainly Byron contributed towards increasing awareness about Greece, but I feel that Hastings' part in the revolution has been greatly overlooked by both Greeks and British. There is only a small commemorative inscription with his name at Messolonghi. He was the most useful of the Philhellenes in the field, and void of any vanity and ulterior motives unlike some of the others.
EmperorOfTheHellenes @ "δεν πρεπει να αποφασιζουν οι Βρετανοι ποιοι θα κυβερνησουν την Ελλαδα αλλα οι Ελληνες"
Ωραία! Γιατί τότε η Φρειδερίκη μέχρι την τελευταία στιγμή πρίν υπογραφούν οι Συμφωνίες Ζυρίχης επίεζε τηλεφωνικώς τον Μακάριο να υπογράψει τί ήθελαν οι Βρεττανοί?
So, what do you imply? Should Prince Charles have recruited irregulars to shoot at the Royal Mail strikers two months ago during the postal strike? Inspite of the fact that the military does not receive orders from any royals, only by trying it, he whould have to leave the country on the same day.
Never again our Nation should have to undergo the suffering and humiliation of the Glyxburg years. GOOD RIDDANCE!
klearchosklearchou - Regarding the incident where without any constitutional, military, or judicial authority ordered the militia to shoot at the demonstrators:
He did the same when he was sent to serve as a High Commissioner in Crete after its independence. That was the first clash he had with Venizelos. He was treating everyone as an absolute autocrat. This raised the question amonst the Cretan freedom fighters as to whether that was what they fought for, and they sent him packing.
Found "guilty" by a MILITARY COURT in a democracy!
Even the US which the Glücksburg couple was anxious to please, as well as all Western democracies, leading scientists and artists including Einstein and Picasso, Christian Church leaders including the Pope called for the execution not to be carried out. Only the Greek Orthodox Church, that collaborated and praised the early Nazi victories against the "non-believers" called for the death of Beloyiannis!
The King is the symbol of Unity of the Nation.The President of Democracy hasn't got the power to play this role.We don't elect the President.The President is elected from the parliament.I believe that the King is more uselul
In England, after James II had to run for his life those imported from Holland were still relatives of his. Mary was his daughter, married to William, her first cousin. They were succeeded by her sister, Anne, because they had no heirs. Anne died with no heirs too. Therefore, George (I) was imported from Hanover. His mother was the grand daughter of James I. Therefore still a Stuart i.e. British through and through.
many say that Glucksburg dynasty has Byzantine ancestry.I believe that. That's how they are related with Greece.Are the most Kings of Europe Austrians because they are related with Habsburg Dynasty?The Royal families married each other for Alliances
Regarding his ancestry to "Byzantine Emperors" is an issue which he avoids like hell because it has become a joke in Western media. Today we have DNA testing which can confirm such an ancestry. BUT at the same time it confirms that he is as Greek as Hirohito of Japan. Not a single Eastern Roman Emperor had even the remotest Greek ancestry.
Infact such an association confirms how distant he is genetically from Greece.
The science of genetics is not in good terms with what "many say" but relies on lab results.
There is a Greek society in my College whose members believe that the Greeks came from a different galaxy. They speak about something they call "the epsilon factor".
EmperorOfTheHellenes - @ The President of Democracy hasn't got the power to play this role [sic].
But doen't the mere fact that every generation of this family was involved in civil unrest tell you anything? Paul was the only one whose office was served uninterrupted because he was a CIA protégé.
In which way did Constantine I, George II, or De Grecia play a unifying role?
EmperorOfTheHellenes - @ "... symbol of Unity of the Nation" [sic]
George I:- assassinated,
Constantine I:- exiled twice,
George II:- exiled, returned as a dictator, and after WW2 triggered a civil war,
Paul:- disgraced abroad,
De Grecia:- Credited with the dismissal of more governments in 18 months than all kings of Britain since the creation of Parliament. Responsible for the junta and the removal of the force from Cyprus to facilitate the Turkish invasion - as Johnson ordered.
EmperorOfTheHellenes - And which ones of the Eastern Roman dynasties you listed had Greek ancestry?
Wikipedia is hardly an academic text.
The Eastern Romans were neither Hellenic nor Hellenistic - unlike the real Romans who were Hellenistic and at the same time proud of their Roman identity.
Out of interest, can you think of any Roman Council or Emperor who rented Roman territory to the barbarians? The very Cristian "emperor" Justinian used to rent Cyprus to the Arabs 6 months of the year!
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Greek ancestry had most of them.you think that the Palaiologos or the Komnenos dynasty was not Greek?maybe some emperors were not greek but the meaning of the nation was different at that time.They were all citizens of the Roman Empire
EmperorOfTheHellenes - Re: The concept of "nation" at that time.
Very well! According to the earlier Roman concept the Greeks were Roman. But so were the Jews. Today according to the concept of the day the Pakistanis in England are British; but are they English. Do they have the same social values?
Also were the Greeks of Crete Turkish till 1900 just because they were under the Othomans?
It is fine with new nations such as the US. But it sounds odd with old and already defined nations!
EmperorOfTheHellenes - Re: The "Greekness" of Mr DeGrecia:
The issue of his national background becomes irrelevant. Democracy in the 6th century BC Athens emerged within a context of the rejection of kingship and tyranny. About 2500 years later, after the French Revolution, European monarchs were given reason to reflect and correct their ways. Those who persisted in their "divine right" to rule over others, had a sad end. The Glücksburgs were very fortunate. They are infact better of now!
ΜΠΟΡΕΙ ΝΑ ΕΙΝΑΙ ΒΑΣΙΛΕΥΣ ΤΩΝ ΕΛΛΗΝΩΝ, ΜΙΑ ΚΑ ΠΟΥ ΤΟ ΕΘΝΙΚΟ ΜΑΣ ΣΠΟΡ ΕΙΝΑΙ ΤΟ ΠΟΥΛΗΜΑ, ΑΛΛΑ ΠΟΤΕ ΔΕΝ ΘΑ ΕΙΝΑΙ ΒΑΣΙΛΕΥΣ ΤΗΣ ΕΛΛΑΔΟΣ. Ο ΤΕΛΕΥΤΑΙΟΣ ΤΗΣ ΒΑΣΙΛΕΥΣ ΗΤΑΝ Ο ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΑΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ. ΣΕ ΚΑΘΕ ΠΟΛΕΜΟ ΕΒΓΑΖΑΝ ΟΛΑ ΤΑ ΛΕΦΤΑ ΤΟΥ ΚΡΑΤΟΥΣ ΕΞΩ ΟΙ ΚΛΕΦΤΑΡΑΔΕΣ ΟΙ ΓΛΙΞΜΠΟΥΡΓΚ
ΓΑΜΩ ΤΗ ΦΥΤΡΑ ΚΑΙ ΤΗ ΓΕΝΙΑ ΣΑΣ !!!!
ΓΑΜΩ ΤΗ ΡΙΖΑ ΣΑΣ ΣΚΑΤΟΓΕΡΜΑΝΟΦΑΡΑ, ΓΑΜΩ ΤΑ ΜΠΑΣΤΑΡΔΙΑ ΣΑΣ ΞΕΦΤΙΛΙΣΜΕΝΟΙ ΓΕΡΜΑΝΑΡΑΔΕΣ
monoellada1 2 months ago
UST!FERTE PISO THN PRIKA TIS SOFIAS FERTE PISO THN "BASILIKH PARIOUSIA"LES KAI DOULEPSANE GTA NA THN APOKTISOUN ALITHIA GNORIZEI KANEIS POS THN APEKTISAN?AS MAS PEI KAI SE MAS.OSO GIA TOUS KAINOURGIOUS NA FEROUN PISO TA KLEMENA KAI OLOI ENTOKA PARAKALO!KAI OI PROIMOI KAI OI OPSIMOI KLEFTES!OUST LAMOGIA!!!!!!!1
1971855 5 months ago
@1971855 o kaimenos o kouto-'ellinas'. Tora katalabeno yiati sas koroidebei ollei h europe. eiste yemati propaganda kai koutamara. Oti basilikh perousia hpyrxe ytan kai einai dikatous. me dikatous lefta agorasan to tatoi kai olla ta alla. H ellada sou kurie dev eixe pou na katourisi. oi basiliki oikogenia plyrone gia OLLA to exoda teis yiati eseis dev eixate tipota. Ti na klepsouv? Ta brakia teis mana sou? Afou dex eixe! Aftoi htav o logos pou eixe h ellada timi kai sebos twpa ti?
useastend 1 month ago
UST
1971855 5 months ago
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Να ψοφησουν τα κομμουνια που γραφουν εναντιον..
TheJfill 6 months ago
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marielenatheo 9 months ago
Oloi oi germanarades en plaisiw..Vre Oustttttttttttttttt....
amadeus2270 1 year ago 7
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Τιμη και δοξα σε ολους τους Βασιλεις των Ελληνων..Υπερηφανιεα και τιμη που ειμαστε Ελληνες
chomedey19770 1 year ago
na pethanei!
Burgerphile 1 year ago 14
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@Burgerphile na pethaneis esi
patakas1000 1 year ago
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ΒΑΣΙΛΕΙΣ ΠΟΥ ΕΠΕΒΛΗΘΗΣΑΝ ΣΤΗ ΚΑΜΕΝΗ ΑΠΟ ΤΟΥΣ ΜΟΓΓΟΛΟΥΣ ΓΗΣ ΤΩΝ ΕΛΛΗΝΩΝ ΤΟ ΑΝΤΙΤΙΜΟ ΓΙΑ ΤΗΝ ΣΥΝΔΡΟΜΗ ΤΗΣ ΔΥΣΗΣ ΣΤΗΝ ΥΠΟ ΟΡΟΥΣ ΑΠΕΛΕΥΘΕΡΩΣΗ ΤΗΣ ΠΑΤΡΙΔΑΣ ΜΑΣ ΩΣΤΕ ΝΑ ΕΥΡΙΣΚΟΜΕΘΑ ΥΠΟ ΤΟΝ ΕΛΕΓΧΟ ΤΩΝ ΜΕΓΑΛΩΝ ΔΥΝΑΜΕΩΝ ΟΙ ΠΙΟ ΠΑΝΩ ΠΟΤΕ ΔΕΝ ΥΠΗΡΞΑΝ ΒΑΣΙΛΕΙΣ ΜΟΥ ΔΙΟΤΙ ΔΕΝ ΕΙΝΑΙ ΕΛΛΗΝΕΣ ΤΟ ΓΝΩΡΙΖΟΥΝ ΚΑΙ ΤΟ ΠΙΣΤΕΥΟΥΝ Ο ΤΕΛΕΥΤΑΙΟΣ ΒΑΣΙΛΕΑΣ ΜΟΥ ΕΠΕΣΕ ΗΡΩΙΚΩΣ ΜΑΧΟΜΕΝΟΣ ΣΤΗ ΠΥΛΗ ΤΟΥ ΑΓΙΟΥ ΡΩΜΑΝΟΥ ΣΤΗ ΒΑΣΙΛΕΥΟΥΣΑ ΚΩΝΣΤΑΝΤΙΝΟΥΠΟΛΗ
Alexander29854 1 year ago
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!!!!TROOOLLSSS!!!
Anixneytis1 1 year ago
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ο βασιλειας των μαλακισμενων,ο κοκος το μαλακισμενο......
33bbn53 1 year ago 31
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Achievements of the Greek Republic: Turkish invasion in Cyprus, corruption, anarchy,plutocracy and finally a society full of illegal immigrants and beggars. Furthermore Greece is moraly and financially bunkrupt. Kudos to all republicans.
Greece has been degraded to a thirld world level. Bravo democracy! Well done!
ceasar70alexander 1 year ago 4
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From what i can see antimonarchists have many complexes...
ceasar70alexander 1 year ago
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Long live the King of Hellenes!!!!
ceasar70alexander 1 year ago 3
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oust.....
stelpas75 1 year ago
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King Konstantine PLEASE come back and save Greece from the corrupt Greeks. King Konstantine, GREECE needs you and loves the royal family!
jjgreek1 1 year ago 3
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The KING needs to return back to Greece! I don't know why they disliked him. He has more knowledge and balls then anybody else who ever ruled Greece. Look at the country now. Disaster! Drama! Chaos! But it's too late now.
Valapaca 1 year ago 3
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ωραίο το τραγουδάκι... για πόνυ που τρέχει γύρω γύρω στο τσίρκο...
kotoreneala 1 year ago
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Tremete aplytoi, tha gyrisoume k tha sas faei mavro fidi mazi me tous symaxous sas, tous lathronetanastes "Ellines" tou GAP.....
Gaidaross 1 year ago 3
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mpiaxxxxxx ofara re mounia
nikosk55 1 year ago
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gemati i xora apo malakes k prodotes poulimenoi gia 30 dinaria oloi tous ,oust
nikosk55 1 year ago
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Παλι καλα που ξεκουμπηστηκαν τα σκουλικια!!!!
zaruhlago 1 year ago 14
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my balls are more royal than those dogs and all their bastard kindred
kipJunkie 1 year ago 6
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ΑΝΑΦΟΡΑ ΣΤΟΝ ΚΟΛΟΚΟΤΡΩΝΗ:
"Γέρο, τον διώξαμε!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
toy2day 1 year ago 2
xaxaxaxaxa
spqx 1 year ago 17
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xaxaxaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
juanfounes7 1 year ago 17
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King Constatine will return as King back to Greece on day! Wait the day will come.
Valapaca 2 years ago
@Valapaca
When, on the 30th of this coming February or on the 31st of August the year after?
epameinondas13 2 years ago 6
@Valapaca,
That's interesting, do you really think so? He is doing quite well in London at present, even as a pensioner.
sylviaphryne 2 years ago 5
@sylviaphryne: I agree! But he never wanted to be there in the first place. His heart & soul belongs to Greece! What happened to him and his family is a terrible tragedy!
Valapaca 2 years ago
@Valapaca,
He could have lived in Greece in the same way that the former king of Portugal lives in Portugal. However he refused a Greek passport on the grounds that he did not have a surname.
klearchosklearchou 2 years ago 7
@Valapaca,
When your "heart & soul" belongs to a country you at least adopt their customs. Greek people since times immemorial had two names: one in the nominative case followed by another in the genitive case: e.g. Αἰσχύλος Εὐφορίωνος.
dagmar1991 2 years ago 4
Valapaca - @ terrible tragedy
When his family's on and off time in Greece is calculated you will find that they lived about 90 years in Greece. This is less than a drop in the ocean in terms of Greek history.
Considering what the Greek people have suffered during such a relatively short time, I think that your commiserations are rather misplaced.
Many Greek families never recovered as a result of the Glücksburg recklessness and my heart goes to them rather than this jolly Danish family!
dagmar1991 2 years ago 3
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ΟΥΣΤΤΤΤΤΤΤΤΤΤΤΤ ΡΕΕΕΕΕΕΕΕΕΕΕΕΕΕΕΕ
RS13GEO 2 years ago 49
αν ειχαμε σημερα τον Βασιλια η Βρετανια,η Δανια,η Σουηδια...(οι χωρες που εχουν Βασιλια) θα ειχαν αναγνωρισει τα Σκοπια με το ονομα Μακεδονια?Οσο υπηρχε ο Βασιλιας οι Τουρκοι δεν τολμουσαν να κανουν παραβιασεις στο Αιγαιο ενω απο την μεταπολιτευση και μετα συνεχως το κανουν
EmperorOfTheHellenes 2 years ago
απλά μας πήραν οι τούρκοι την κύπρο.....κατά τ'αλλα δύναμη ο βασιλιάς...ανιστόρητε!
arakapesnel 2 years ago
οταν την πηραν οι Τουρκοι ο Βασιλιας δεν ηταν Βασιλιας πλεον
EmperorOfTheHellenes 2 years ago
etsi ta xereis e?
arakapesnel 2 years ago
για πες μου εσυ πως εγιναν?....δεν μπορω να καταλαβω την εμπαθεια σας στο προσωπο του Βασιλια.Ο Βασιλιας φταιει για την σημερινη κατασταση.Βριζεται τον Βασιλια και εχετε κανει ηρωες τους προδοτες Κ.Καραμανλη και Α.Παπανδρεου
EmperorOfTheHellenes 2 years ago
einai faidro na asxoli8oume to 2010 me vasiliades. ntropi apla. oso gia ton karamanli kai ton papandreou, se anti8esi me vasiliades kai xountes exoun kanei fovero ergo gia tin ellada me ola ta kala kai ta kaka pou to synodeysan. arkei na vgaleis tis kommatikes paropides gia na to anagnwriseis. istoria den ginetai na sou mathw sto youtube. kali xronia.
arakapesnel 2 years ago
εργο ο Καραμανλης και ο Παπανδρεου?νομιζω οτι εσυ πρεπει να μαθεις ιστορια,εκανε εργο ο Καραμανλης που ειπε οτι η Κυπρος ειναι μακρια και ο Παπανδρεου που καταχρεωσε το Ελληνικο δημοσιο?
EmperorOfTheHellenes 2 years ago
EmperorOfTheHellenes @ η Κυπρος ειναι μακρια[sic]
Δέν θα τον ψήφιζα αν υπήρχα και είχα ψήφο τοτε. Όμως όταν το είπε αυτό ο Καραμανλής, τον Αύγουστο του 1974 η Ελλάδα δέν ήταν σε θέση να αμυνθεί ούτε τα σύνορα της. Άσε που θα βοηθούσε την Κύπρο.
euridike88 2 years ago 17
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EmperorOfTheHellenes 2 years ago
....γιατι ειναι ντροπη να ασχολουμαστε με Βασιλεις?δηλαδη η Δανια,η Σουηδια...που εχουν Βασιλια ζουνε 100 χρονια πισω?ενας βασιλιας προσφερει πολυ περισοτερα απο εναν Προεδρο...η ιστορια δεν ειναι γραμμενη σε greeklish για αυτο και δεν εισαι το καταλληλο ατομο να διδαξει ιστορια
EmperorOfTheHellenes 2 years ago
η Δανια,η Σουηδια...που εχουν Βασιλια ζουνε 100 χρονια πισω?
Μήπως η Γερμανία, Αυστρία, Γαλλία, Ιταλία, Ισλανδία, Φινλανδία, Ελβετία, και ΗΠΑ είναι 100 χρόνια πίσω?
euridike88 2 years ago 17
He wasn't a king anymore, but was he not responsible for instigating the removal of the military force which George Papandreou managed to place on the island owing to a pending Turkish invasion earlier?
Now, why should Johnson request that he should instigate such an action. Why should someone request that you should reduce your country's security? Could it be that he was so naive and obliged?
I comment in English because I am not Greek and it is easier for me. You don't have to respond.
sylviaphryne 2 years ago 2
He wasn't responsible because the King does not have so much power in a constitutional monarchy.The King is a Symbol and the Leader of the State is the Prime Minister.The Prime Ministers have destroy Greece not the King
EmperorOfTheHellenes 2 years ago
EmperorOfTheHellenes - In Constitutional Monarchy the king is simply occupying a decorative office. Was the the office infested by the Glücksburgs constitutional. In the case of Beloyiannis Paul even speeded up the date of the executions ignoring public opinion in Greece as well as international outrage. Not even the Home Office Ministers had authority to "order" executions even back then.
It is also the little matter of George II's failed coup, exile, second attempt and eventual dictatoship.
sylviaphryne 2 years ago 2
EmperorOfTheHellenes - Never in a democracy, whether under constitutional monarchy or not, civilians are tried in a military court and shot because they support a political party which does not approve of monarchy - especially in Greece the country where Democracy was conceived and inspired all successful democratic movements in the West.
sylviaphryne 2 years ago 2
EmperorOfTheHellenes - @ Re: The king does not have much power.
This one did. It just happened that his "power" was the most powerful democracy on earth, and simply decided that his family served their purpose. Their "use by date" had long expired. There was a more promising and willing satellite in the Middle East to look after their interests in the region where pro-Americanism was unanimous. Besides they proved that they could neutralise their enemies' coalition in 7 days.
sylviaphryne 2 years ago 3
Beloyiannis was agent of the Soviet Union so I believe that the King did the right thing. Do you compare Athenian Democracy with today's democracy? Platon at "The Republic" say that Democracy is one of the worst Forms of Government. I don't believe in Democracy. Greece was strong with Monarchy from Ancient to Modern times.
EmperorOfTheHellenes 2 years ago
EmperorOfTheHellenes - Believing whether old Glücksburg did the "right thing" by endorsing torture and the systematic elimination of anyone who opposed his family's regime, is a different matter altogether. We are on the subject of "constitutional monarchy". Obviously what you subscribe to is not what you describe as "constitutional monarchy." There hasn't been a constitutional monarchy in Europe where citizens are tried by a military court -- from what I looked up afer Napoleon III at least!
dagmar1991 2 years ago 3
EmperorOfTheHellenes - Plato via Socrates compares different systems of government in the Republic in order to stimulate debate. He encourages the participants to see the pros and cons which can result by the excesses of EACH system - not just of Democracy. If you go back to where they agreed on a definition for "Justice", then you will be reminded that the rest of the book is a playful exercise to "invent" a Polis where their form of "custom made" justice could be at home.
dagmar1991 2 years ago 3
EperorOfTheHellenes - @ Greece was strong with Monarchy ... [sic]
Perhaps you think of Sparta. If you compare any pair of Spartan kings with any of the Glücksburgs you will find that the latter wouldn't have survived a sunset in 5th century BC Sparta. Infact the scrutiny to which the Spartan kings were subjected 2,500 years ago would make even the most constitutional of kings to resign their office.
Re: monarchy in modern times: How did Constantiine (I) strengthen Greece?
dagmar1991 2 years ago 2
EmperorOfTheHellenes - Re: Greece being strong under monarchy (in modern times):
Surely a strong country does not need to be afraid of its critics. Do you measure a country's strength in terms of numbers of political prisoners? When Frederica was spat on by demonstrators outside Claridges in London was it because the British envied the "strongest" queen in Christendom? In the footage where the Glücksburgs are booed in London (1963) do you see representatives of a strong state?
dagmar1991 2 years ago 3
EmperorOfTheHellenes - @ "I don't believe in Democracy" [sic]
Then you are at odds with Mr DeGrecia - in these days he doesn't miss an opportunity to speak about democracy, democratic processes, and his "respect" for the will of the people.
It seems, therefore, that Mr DeGrecia would be seriously displeased with an admirer who does not subscribe to democracy. I hope he doesn't read your comment because he would be frightfully distressed!
dagmar1991 2 years ago 3
our theme isn't democracy but the King.Glucksburg dynasty help Greece a lot.Under the rule of George I Greece doubled her Size.And Constantine I in command of the Army free Macedonia,Epirus.George II with Metaxas(Fascist Greece) win the Greko-Italian war and made a strong defence from Germany.We can't compare the Spartans with today Greeks.The Spartans were born to fight.
EmperorOfTheHellenes 2 years ago
Emperor__ @ "our them isn't democracy ..."
Your reference to "constitutional monarchy" landed us on the theme of democracy.
My reference to Sparta was within the context of YOUR comment as regards monarchy having made Greece strong in ancient times. Naturally, as any form of tyranny was an anathema for Athens, you could only be referring to Sparta.
I therefore do not compare the then Spartans with today's Greeks but their kings to all present kings - you having introduced the subject!
dagmar1991 2 years ago 2
only Athens got Democracy and thats why it lost the Peloponesian War because the people of Athens vote for the Campaign of Sicily.Sparta,Macedonia,Kingdom of Mollosians...etc,Eastern Roman Empire were Kingdoms.Even in a today democracy the King for the Greeks it will be a symbol of the Past even if he did wrongs
EmperorOfTheHellenes 2 years ago
Emperor__ That's not correct; Thucydides gives the complete list of the democratic poleis as well as the oligarchic under the two leagues.
You may recall that till Alcibiades' betrayal, in Thuc. 6, Athens had the upper hand. From Xenophon you would find that the outcome of the war was decided with Persian gold.
The reckless campaign in Sicily is interesting on many levels :-
1 - See last speech of Pericles Thuc. 2.63
2 - A lesson from history: YOU NEVER CHANGE ANYTHING IN A VICTORIOUS WAR!
dagmar1991 2 years ago 3
Emperor_ Re: my comment that you should never make changes while you are winning a war:
Issuing an arrest warrant Alcibiades screams to be connected with the recklessness of the "king's party" during the Asia Minor Campaign - which might or mightn't have been wrong.
As the Polis failed its soldiers in Sicily back then, so did Greece failed everybody in during the A.M. Campaign.
Re: Thuc: 2.63 - Pericles warns them that they are now managing something which developed into a Tyranny!
dagmar1991 2 years ago 3
Emeror__ Issuing an arrest warrant against Alcibiades forced him to seek refuge in Sparta. We are not given sufficient details as to how such a warrant materialised. However we know of the existence of an oligarchic faction in Athens which did not want to see the Sicilian Campaign succeed - inspite of the cost in human life. Compare with the "king's party". Even a first year student of Strategic Studies would question as to the real motives and hopes behind Constantine I's reckless interference.
dagmar1991 2 years ago 3
Emp_ The Sicilian Campaign was totally unnecessary and was undertaken in time of peace with Sparta.
By then Pericles had been dead for about 15 years. That was the first experience of Democracy with very few safety nets. Even today democracies tend to forget how they came to be: e.g. America fought George III in the name of Democracy. Yet during Bush's administration, a democracy had to be "with us or against us". Compare with the Athenian reasoning in the Melian Debate!
dagmar1991 2 years ago 4
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Emperor..etc - @ "only Athens got Democracy and thats why it lost the Peloponesian War"
1. Only Athens? Check!
2. The Battle of Marathon in 490 BC has been the turning point that determined the future of our Western culture and it materialized because of Democracy. The West would have been different today if that battle was never fought.
euridike88 2 years ago 19
Emperor_ -@ "Glücksburg dynasty help [sic] Greece a lot"
Don't you think that Greece could do without such "help"?
Greece owes them the resignation of dozens of democratically elected governments, the Asia Minor disaster, at least three dictatorships in two of which the Glücksburgs were directly involved, Cypurs betrayal, death and torture facilities on the islands as late as the 1960s, not being able to study in the University unless you produced a "Certificate of National Consciousness"
dagmar1991 2 years ago
EmperorOfTheHellenes - At times I have to address you with only part of your screen name because if I were to enter it in full it would use up 20 of the 500 characters we are allowed.
dagmar1991 2 years ago
Emperor__ - Not only on University level but also at school it is emphasised that "inspite of the brutal regime of the German/Danish king" the people of Greece united against Fascism in a futile attempt to defeat the beast as an invader since they could not defeat it from within.
It seems that today the only ones who subscribe to the dictator's "heroic" OXI are those who still suffer the after effects of TRUTH to which they have been unaccustomed for too long and are in denial.
dagmar1991 2 years ago
You can't deny that Metaxas said "ΟΧΙ".He was a dictator.He could surrender if he want.But he was Nationalist and in his regime the Nation was above all.
Asia Minor Campaing is very complicated story,and my English are not so good to analyze it
EmperorOfTheHellenes 2 years ago
Yes! He could have surrendered. BUT he would be surrendering himself only to the militaristic regime and the ridiculous fat dictator on which he modelled himself - up to the detail of his fascist salute. The result would have been fighting with him and Glücksburg against Greece. One lesson from history is that many dictators have been saved by the sudden appearance of an enemy - e.g. the Glücksburgs with the collaborators of the German Occupation were served well by the "communist threat".
sylviaphryne 2 years ago 3
Sylvia - "... the Glücksburgs ... were served well by the communist threat"
Most certainly! Without them all the parties opposing the return of the Glücksburg regime would never have united. This does not mean that they became pro-Glücksburg all of a sudden. Anti-communism does not equate with pro-monarchism. This is best demonstrated by the decision of the Americans to kick out the representatives of George III of Great Britain.
marius4marius 2 years ago 3
Re: Your English:
It's perfect and better than Dagmar's; but if you want you could respond in Greek (using Greek letters).
Re: The Asia Minor fiasco:
Whether the campaign should have been undertaken or not ought to have been a secondary issue once your boys were there. You can't send an army to fight a war and then decide to call elections under the banner: "Do not vote for Venizelos if you want to see your children again".
Can you imagine George V being part of something like that?
sylviaphryne 2 years ago
We mustn't go to Asia Minor it was a stratigic fault.And when Benizelos realize this he did election because he knew that Greeks sympathized the King so he lost the elections and the King party was in rule when we lost the Asia Minor Campaing...and they pay for this all the Ministers of the Goverment executed after that
EmperorOfTheHellenes 2 years ago
Yes, but "you" went and you did so with a strategic plan which couldn't fail unless someone tried hard from home.
The antagonism between the Glücksburgs and Venizelos goes back to 1905 when Prince George tried to steal the show demanding absolute power over the Cretans. Every step of the way the family opposed him after that.
There are similar disastrous enmities in modern history but never between fellow citizens - e.g. Eden and Nasser, Kennedy and Castro, Bush and Saddam ...
sylviaphryne 2 years ago 3
The executions were a disgrace. Venizelos opposed them. Apart from one, those accused of high treason were all a nasty piece of work - not just incompetend. The speed with which the sentences were carried out suggests that some party wanted to silence them up.
The Glücksburg were aware that the Ionian Greeks were emotionally as well as traditionally against them being there.
Even contemporary Western governments knew that the plebiscite that brought the Glücksburgs back was heavily rigged.
sylviaphryne 2 years ago 2
@ The Emperor's English:
Ofcourse it is better than mine - even yours is after you had a good night's sleep!
dagmar1991 2 years ago
Emperor_ @ "... Spartans were born to fight"
Nobody is born to fight unless he belongs to an animal species biologically programmed to kill. Higher primates such as humans need to be conditioned for the desired effect to be achieved.
The Spartans being a minority in their own state had to be prepared for a Messenian revolt.
There are numerous battle accounts of the Spartans losing in straight pitch battle. Willingness to take losses has its limitations even in authoritarian regimes.
dagmar1991 2 years ago 3
EmperorOfTheHellenes: Your reference to George I:
Are you familiar with the incidents that led to the resignation of the government of Trikoupis?
Would you approve of a prince with no political office or role in government giving orders to a force of irregulars to open fire against a group of striking workers demonstrating peacefully? The prince was Constantine I. His father defended the murderous and unconstitutional action of his son. The Government resigned! Constantine was delighted!
sylviaphryne 2 years ago 3
Trikoupis was a Prime Minister who destroy Greek economy.But it was different and more violence times.anyone can do wrongs.The same prince Free Macedonia and Epirus when he was in command of the Army.Why we see ony the faults of the Royal Family?They help Greece a lot
EmperorOfTheHellenes 2 years ago
EmperorOfTheHellenes: Italy had at least one Primeminister or Minister responsible for bombing their economy every Saturday afternoon since WW2.
The best formula for a leader's political assassination, since the St Petersburg Massacre, is to "encourage" him to give an order to shoot against demonstrators.
Ofcourse, anyone can make mistakes. Political leaders are elected to do human work. But they are ELECTED. If we are not happy with them, then, we elect someone else hoping for the best!
sylviaphryne 2 years ago 3
EmperorOfTheHellenes: Dagmar is hinting towards a comparison between the Sicilian and the Asia Minor fiascos. Do you want to express an opinion? The similarities are that they were both disastrous, unnecessary, mismanaged inspite of early success, and they were both betrayed by a home faction which opposed those who instigated them as a matter of principle.
Do you think that the stance of Constantine helped?
sylviaphryne 2 years ago 2
both Asia Minor and Sicilian Campaing were fault of the Public Opinion.Constantine without any support of Antant,tried to end the war,occuping the capital of Turkey.he failed.Why is his wrong?Venizelos start Asia Minor Campaing
EmperorOfTheHellenes 2 years ago
EmperorotheHellenes> It was not on account of the country's economy that Trikoupis resigned. It was because George defended his son's action to order a temporary force, encamped in Athens, to shoot at striking workers. They were poor workers who wanted to improve the living conditions for them and their families. Those who were killed or wounded had families and friends who eventually had children and grandchildren. Do you think that they all ended up being royalists?
marius4marius 2 years ago 3
as i said it was different times,and in Greece that hapened a lot of times.Venizelos asked Antant forces to bombard Athens to force the King to resign.He doesn't kill Greeks?why Venizelos is the "Good man" of Greek History?
EmperorOfTheHellenes 2 years ago
Emperor_ @ Entente being asked to bombard Athens
This was within the context of Athens being under "hostile pro-German faction" - within that historical context.
Now: Who asked the RAF to bomb Athens for weeks between December 1944 and January 1945?
Do you think that either Churchill or Truman gave a brass farthing about Mr DeGrecia's uncle? Or, do you think that they had any respect for them?
Have you heard of IΔΕΑ and in whose interests it was formed?
dagmar1991 2 years ago 7
During the early months of 1947- US bombers were taking off from Phaleron and after a quick landing at Eleusis, to change their insignia into Greek, they were taking off again to bomb Greeks resisting the Glücksburg nuisance.
Re: Venizelos as the good man of Greek history:
Today we prefer a scientific approach to history. The history texts we use in the West are not taken seriously if they attempt to guide the reader.
I was not taught whether Venizelos was good or bad.
dagmar1991 2 years ago 7
Emperor_ In May 1956 in Athens, Glücksburg-controlled police and troops shot dead 3 demonstrators outside our Information Office and wounded 200. The reason was because they were demonstrating against the hangings of freedom fighters in Cyprus.
They could not demonstrate outside the British Embassy because it was blocked off by army barrigades.
Did the Glücksburgs care for Greece, or just to please their Western employers?
dagmar1991 2 years ago 10
Emperor_ While the Glücksburg regime continued to suppress any anti-British and anti-American feelings in Athens, with shootings and beatings, in the British House of Commons the government of Eden was criticised severely for the treatment of the Greeks in Cyprus. There were demonstrations in favour of Union of Cyprus with Greece where British MPs participated.
For the Glücksburgs any criticism of their sponsors was an anathema.
As a philhellene I fail to understand your sympathies!
dagmar1991 2 years ago 8
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what has the union of Cyprus with Greece with the King?George Grivas leader of EOKA at the Greek Civil war he was the leader of "Organization X" a royalist and anti-communist organization.
EmperorOfTheHellenes 2 years ago
Dr Michael Pissas Aide to Makarios.
18 February 1959:
Frederica phoned us at Dorchester:
..". εἶπε ἀπειλητικὰ στὸν Μακάριο: «Μακαριώτατε, μὴν φέρνετε ἀντιρρήσεις στὴν ὑπογραφὴ τῶν συμφω-
νιῶν. Ἡ Ἑλλὰς τὶς ὑπέγραψε ἤδη καὶ δὲν μπορεῖ νὰ πάρῃ πίσω τὴν ὑπογραφή
της! ...."
euridike88 2 years ago 9
Frederica's involvement and collaboration with Karamanlis to exert pressure on Makarios to sigh the unworkable Treaty of Zurich is extremely well documented in academic texts. The year was 1959. It was Frederica and Karamanlis; not Frederica and Paul who ran the show.
The British ought to have stayed in Cyprus at all costs. Why? This was the principle on which ΙΔΕΑ was founded. All army officers from the rank of a major were members. Paul was the "highest ranking officer".
euridike88 2 years ago 6
EOKA was the right organization aiming towards the right goal but with the wrong leader. Makarios was wrong to associate himself with a former Nazi collaborator. Still the Greeks of Cyprus backed fullheartedly EOKA - till the moment Grivas started babbling about "defeating the internal enemy". Soon he became responsible for more Greek deaths than British.
His formation of EOKAb confirms as to the kind of person he was and for whom he worked. The rest is history in the Herodotian sense!
euridike88 2 years ago 6
You seem to equate disapproval of communism with royalism. Perhaps if communism were around at the time of the American War of Independence the American Patriots would have been labeled as communists.
Are the French, Germans, Finns, Austrians, Italians, Swiss, Americans, Portuguese, Icelandics, etc ... etc ... communists?
euridike88 2 years ago 4
The X-Gang provided a useful umbrella for many Nazi collaborators, as well as criminal elements, unrelated to politics.
They all knew that "support" for the Danes would confuse the issue and give them an element of legitimacy.
If you have been following all De Grecia's interviews on British TV, he hints on the subject. However, to say that "mistakes were made" is not enought. If he were a disgraced Primeminister he wouldn't be re-elected. Why should a foreigner be reconsiderered?
euridike88 2 years ago 9
ΑὐτοκράτωρἙλλήνων - Don't you think that it is a bit lonely in the forum with the fascist march, composed for DeGrecia, where only you is allowed to comment, as a representative of his last hope?
sylviaphryne 2 years ago 2
no because it isn't necesary correct whatever says the most.We believe in the Greek ancestry of our dynasty but ever if we are wrong,we prefer our "Danish" King than our Jew Prime Minister
EmperorOfTheHellenes 2 years ago
Αὐτοκράτωρ - @ "... our dynasty"
This is fascinating! You could form a "Danish Party". Everybody has to start from somewhere. After Independence, your political parties were named after the country supporting them - e.g. the English Paty, Russian Party, French Party and so on. But there was never a Danish Party because the Danes never participated in any way by means of assistance during Greek Revolution.
Please note that the march in the other forum, is (musically) Germanic.
sylviaphryne 2 years ago 2
Emperor - @ "... our Jew[ish] Prime Minister":
Judaism is a religion, and the religion of your PM is Christian Orthodox.
You may find that many famous 5th century BC Athenians were not Greek but were welcome into Athenian society because they shared the same values - e.g. Herodotus was a Carian. The very symbols of Athenian Democracy Harmodios and Aristogeiton could trace their family to Phoenicia, and, surprisingly, the Alcmaeonidae - i.e. the family of Pericles and Alcibiades.
sylviaphryne 2 years ago 5
Emperor - Surely you can see the difference between your PM's family and the Glücksburgs: Did the family of your PM come to Greece for the purpose of becoming Prime Ministers? Or, they came to work and gradually achieved a political office - which in any case was democratically elected!
The Glücksburgs came to Greece, for a sole reason: to lord it ove a country that only recently liberated itself. Did they help at all towards the liberation?
sylviaphryne 2 years ago 5
there were not a Danish Party in Greece because Denmark were not a Superpower as Britain,France and Russia. In Greece now we have the Papandreou and Karamanlis dynasty...the most prime ministers are coming from these 3 dynasties`
EmperorOfTheHellenes 2 years ago
EmperorOfTheHellenes - Who is to blame for that? We also have the Mitsotakis clan with a change of names.
In Argentina the Peron dictatoship brought them Eva Peron and later Isabella Peron.
In the US there was a George Bush sr and a George Bush jr. We can not go back to square one every time we are not happy with the government. We can exert our democratic rights and vote someone else in the next elections. We can not overthrow an elected government we do not like at the drop of a hat.
euridike88 2 years ago 6
@EmperorOfTheHellenes,
There was a very strong French party although France was not a Great Power as such. They were still recovering from the Napoleonic Wars and were themselves experimenting once again with monarchy. A large Greek minority put their trust in them. Such trust was misplaced.
Forming political parties on the basis of which country was more likely to protect Greece created a culture of dependence which lasted as late as the mid-seventies.
tanjatanya 2 years ago 2
Tanya - Also according to what you pointed out elsewhere the Russians as a Great Power were a giant with feet of clay, and I agree. Their attempts to be seen as a naval power have taught us a useful lesson: How not to built a navy, and how not to use it. It eventually culminated in 1905 when Japan sank their fleet in a few hours. Also at Navarino, their role was minimal. British Navy took the lead; the French and Russians followed!
sylviaphryne 2 years ago 4
@EmperorOfTheHellenes ,
There is a party-in-waiting at present in Greece that wants to take your country back to an era of dependency. But today in 2010 Greece is not as useful as it was when the British Empire began to lose its colonies and the US had to fill in the vacuum. Besides they have their own state in the Middle East which is a nuclear power.
Greece should look forward and not retreat into the past every time an obstacle is faced.
tanjatanya 2 years ago 4
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tanjatanya 2 years ago 9
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@EmperorOfTheHellenes,
Regarding political leaders coming from the same families, it is very common since antiquity. It just reflects the fact that some families are more politically aware than others. There is no harm to that as long as the process takes place within a democratic frame.
tanjatanya 2 years ago 23
Well, to have supporters of monarchy accusing politicians of belonging to the same family it is quite an indictment.
At least the members of parliament are elected by the people!
sylviaphryne 2 years ago 19
@sylviaphryne Are they? Oswald Spengler was only too right when he said that democracy is the lackey of plutocracy
podaleiros 6 months ago
@podaleiros And who decides whether he were right or wrong? Churchill, like the Platonic Socrates, was often critical of democracy, like all of us in the free West. However, once the alternatives are considered we are all too pleased to work towards perfecting the best system of government available to us.
Have you considered the context within Spengler wrote his book, and in anticipation of what?
I remember you; I think it was three years ago. About 15 of us were posting at the same time.
sylviaphryne 6 months ago 2
@tanjatanya,
Exactly! Churchill's son, Randolph, was elected as an MP in the UK while the old man was in office. He was given a chance, he was not found adequate, and he was not re-elected. That's democracy!
lykauges 2 years ago 11
EmperorOfTheHellenes - Re: "We believe in the Greek ancestry of our dynasty ..."
ΣΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΠΑ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
euridike88 2 years ago 6
Sylvia - I can't wait to see Kokos followed by "EmperorOfTheHellenes" wih epaulets, golden ribbons, Napoleonic hats and feathers, marching against the Greek Parliament to save the country from its elected government.
euridike88 2 years ago 3
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ακριβως ετσι θα γινουν εφοσον ειμαστε αριστοκρατες....δημοκρατικα εκλεγμενη κυβερνηση...μαλιστα...καταλαβα που το πας..."Σοσιαλισμος η Βαρβαροτητα?"
EmperorOfTheHellenes 2 years ago
EmperorOfTheHellenes - Γείασου ιμπερατόρε τσίφτη αλέγρο ντεγκρετσιόζο. Κάτσε και θάχει φάπες, γιαούρτια, φρουτικά τις εποχής κι άλλα διάφορα.
tzanabetys 2 years ago 8
EmperorOfTheHellenes - Τότε άν είμαστε βάρβαροι, επειδή διώξαμε τον Γεώργιο Γ, της Αγγλίας, δέν σε μειώνει να ξέρεις ότι μέχρι το 1974 εμείς απεφασίζαμε ποιά των κυβερνήσεων σας θα έμενε στην αρχή και ποιά όχι?
sylviaphryne 2 years ago 5
EmperorOfTheHellenes - Το 1967 απεφασίσαμε ότι επλησίασε η ημερομηνία λήξεως των Γλυξμβούργων. Μετά απο την κρίση στο Σουέζ το 1956 μας ήταν άχρηστοι και ήτο πλέον ζήτημα χρόνου.
sylviaphryne 2 years ago 5
Το θεμα ειναι οτι δεν πρεπει να αποφασιζουν οι Βρετανοι ποιοι θα κυβερνησουν την Ελλαδα αλλα οι Ελληνες.Ειναι πολυ γνωστο οτι συμβαινει αυτο.Στην Αθηνα οπου γυρισεις το κεφαλι σου θα δεις ενα αγαλμα του Βενιζελου αλλα ο Κωνσταντινος ο Στρατηλατης εχει ενα
EmperorOfTheHellenes 2 years ago
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dagmar1991 2 years ago 4
EmperorOfTheHellenes - I am not British. I am a US Citizen working and studying in the UK. I should not have spoken in the first person plural.
@ Statues - James II had to run for his life from England. Yet, there is a statue of him dressed like a Roman emperor outside the National Galery at Trafalgar Square.
sylviaphryne 2 years ago 2
EmperorOfTheHellenes - @ " δεν πρεπει να αποφασιζουν οι Βρετανοι ποιοι θα κυβερνησουν την Ελλαδα αλλα οι Ελληνες"
Now, who is famous for saying that? But you call him a Jew: "Greece belongs to the Greeks and they should decide its future"!
sylviaphryne 2 years ago 5
1830-1945 ειχαμε Βρετανους,1945-2010 εχουμε Αμερικανους.Το νοημα ομως παραμενει το ιδιο.Αυτο που θελω να πω για τα αγαλματα ειναι οτι ο Βενιζελος που υποστηριζονταν απο τις μεγαλες δυναμεις, εχει παντου αγαλματα
EmperorOfTheHellenes 2 years ago
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sylviaphryne 2 years ago 3
EmperorOfTheHellenes - With hindsight, after all the national disasters, dictatorships and civil wars, don't you think that it would have been better if the Great Powers instead of a monarch had sent a committee of experts to help Greece get back on her feet after the Liberation? This would have been for a specific period, e.g. 20 years subject to an extension should it be necessary.
sylviaphryne 2 years ago 9
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EmperorOfTheHellenes - EmperorOfTheHellenes - She speaks about the US not Britain. After 1945 what used to be a British sphere of interest, was taken over by the US. Churchill was invited to help with troops by George II. However they could not cope, and Churchill involved the US who were more effective.
There are also statues of Charles I, in Britain all over the place. But do you know what happened to him?
dagmar1991 2 years ago 6
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dagmar1991 2 years ago
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EmperorOfTheHellenes - Well, surely for that, neither the British nor the Americans are responsible. They are not the ones who financed the projects. There are streets in Athens named after some of those who served as monarchs. Of all the foreigners who had a street named after them, I think only Byron deserved it.
sylviaphryne 2 years ago 10
Sylvia - @ "Of all the foreigners who had a street named after them, I think only Byron deserved it."
Certainly Byron contributed towards increasing awareness about Greece, but I feel that Hastings part in the revolution has been greatly overlooked by both Greeks and British. There is only a small commemorative inscription with his name at Messolonghi. He was the most useful of the Philhellenes in the field, and void of any vanity and ulterior motives unlike some of them.
dagmar1991 2 years ago 10
@EmperorOfTheHellenes,
Regarding statues for Vanizelos: I really do not know how many statues of him are around. However, his contribution to the Greek nation can not be exaggerated. Towards Creetan independence for, example, the monarchs contributed next to nothing in comparison with Venizelos. When all the hard work was done Constantine turned up, like the ace of spades, on the island, as a High Commissioner ordering people about disrespectfully like a little sultan.
sylviaphryne 2 years ago 8
Sylvia - @ "Of all the foreigners who had a street named after them, I think only Byron deserved it."
Certainly Byron contributed towards increasing awareness about Greece, but I feel that Hastings' part in the revolution has been greatly overlooked by both Greeks and British. There is only a small commemorative inscription with his name at Messolonghi. He was the most useful of the Philhellenes in the field, and void of any vanity and ulterior motives unlike some of the others.
dagmar1991 2 years ago 10
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EmperorOfTheHellenes @ "δεν πρεπει να αποφασιζουν οι Βρετανοι ποιοι θα κυβερνησουν την Ελλαδα αλλα οι Ελληνες"
Ωραία! Γιατί τότε η Φρειδερίκη μέχρι την τελευταία στιγμή πρίν υπογραφούν οι Συμφωνίες Ζυρίχης επίεζε τηλεφωνικώς τον Μακάριο να υπογράψει τί ήθελαν οι Βρεττανοί?
marius4marius 2 years ago 35
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Dr M Pissas, Advisor to Makarios:-
(18-2-1959), μᾶς πῆρε στὸ τηλέφωνο ἡ Φρειδερίκη στὸ ξενοδοχεῖο «Ντόρτσεστερ» καὶ εἶπε ἀπειλητικὰ: «Μακαριώτατε, μὴν φέρνετε ἀντιρρήσεις στὴν ὑπογραφὴ τῶν συμφωνιῶν. Ἡ Ἑλλὰς τὶς ὑπέγραψε ἤδη καὶ δὲν μπορεῖ νὰ πάρῃ πίσω τὴν ὑπογραφή της!»
marius4marius 2 years ago 34
Marius, it seems that your comment is very informative not to be hidden!
dagmar1991 2 years ago
@EmperorOfTheHellenes @ "Trikoupis was a Prime Minister who destroyed economy"
So, what do you imply? Should Prince Charles have recruited irregulars to shoot at the Royal Mail strikers two months ago during the postal strike? Inspite of the fact that the military does not receive orders from any royals, only by trying it, he whould have to leave the country on the same day.
Never again our Nation should have to undergo the suffering and humiliation of the Glyxburg years. GOOD RIDDANCE!
klearchosklearchou 2 years ago 10
klearchosklearchou - Regarding the incident where without any constitutional, military, or judicial authority ordered the militia to shoot at the demonstrators:
He did the same when he was sent to serve as a High Commissioner in Crete after its independence. That was the first clash he had with Venizelos. He was treating everyone as an absolute autocrat. This raised the question amonst the Cretan freedom fighters as to whether that was what they fought for, and they sent him packing.
dagmar1991 2 years ago 6
EmperorOfTheHellenes: @ Beloyannis:
Found "guilty" by a MILITARY COURT in a democracy!
Even the US which the Glücksburg couple was anxious to please, as well as all Western democracies, leading scientists and artists including Einstein and Picasso, Christian Church leaders including the Pope called for the execution not to be carried out. Only the Greek Orthodox Church, that collaborated and praised the early Nazi victories against the "non-believers" called for the death of Beloyiannis!
sylviaphryne 2 years ago 4
Emperor...etc - @ "Beloyiannis was agent of the Soviet Union so I believe that the King did the right thing."
This was decided by a military court. Greece was in theory, at least, a democracy. In a democracy, citizens are not tried by the army.
You misunderstood Plato's Republic. Read the section where he compares the different systems of government again.
@ "I don't believe in Democracy"
Do you want us to draft a Constitution specific to your needs?
euridike88 2 years ago 23
Emperor__ @ The king is the symbol of the state:
Does a country such as Greece need symbols of any sort?
Was the country sleeping before these people came from Denmark? I may be wrong but I think that Greek literature is more symbolic of Greece than them.
Take Sophocles' Antigone as an example. Why do you think the dictatorship of George II banned it? Could it be for line 737?
i.e. πόλις γὰρ οὐκ ἔσθ᾽ ἥτις ἀνδρός ἐσθ᾽ ἑνός.
dagmar1991 2 years ago 4
The King is the symbol of Unity of the Nation.The President of Democracy hasn't got the power to play this role.We don't elect the President.The President is elected from the parliament.I believe that the King is more uselul
EmperorOfTheHellenes 2 years ago
Emperor_
In England, after James II had to run for his life those imported from Holland were still relatives of his. Mary was his daughter, married to William, her first cousin. They were succeeded by her sister, Anne, because they had no heirs. Anne died with no heirs too. Therefore, George (I) was imported from Hanover. His mother was the grand daughter of James I. Therefore still a Stuart i.e. British through and through.
Now: How is Mr DeGrecia related to Greece?
Just asking!
dagmar1991 2 years ago 6
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many say that Glucksburg dynasty has Byzantine ancestry.I believe that. That's how they are related with Greece.Are the most Kings of Europe Austrians because they are related with Habsburg Dynasty?The Royal families married each other for Alliances
EmperorOfTheHellenes 2 years ago
Regarding his ancestry to "Byzantine Emperors" is an issue which he avoids like hell because it has become a joke in Western media. Today we have DNA testing which can confirm such an ancestry. BUT at the same time it confirms that he is as Greek as Hirohito of Japan. Not a single Eastern Roman Emperor had even the remotest Greek ancestry.
Infact such an association confirms how distant he is genetically from Greece.
euridike88 2 years ago 9
@ many say .... Byzantine ancestry
The science of genetics is not in good terms with what "many say" but relies on lab results.
There is a Greek society in my College whose members believe that the Greeks came from a different galaxy. They speak about something they call "the epsilon factor".
euridike88 2 years ago 8
EmperorOfTheHellenes - @ The President of Democracy hasn't got the power to play this role [sic].
But doen't the mere fact that every generation of this family was involved in civil unrest tell you anything? Paul was the only one whose office was served uninterrupted because he was a CIA protégé.
In which way did Constantine I, George II, or De Grecia play a unifying role?
marius4marius 2 years ago 5
EmperorOfTheHellenes - @ "... symbol of Unity of the Nation" [sic]
George I:- assassinated,
Constantine I:- exiled twice,
George II:- exiled, returned as a dictator, and after WW2 triggered a civil war,
Paul:- disgraced abroad,
De Grecia:- Credited with the dismissal of more governments in 18 months than all kings of Britain since the creation of Parliament. Responsible for the junta and the removal of the force from Cyprus to facilitate the Turkish invasion - as Johnson ordered.
marius4marius 2 years ago 3
George I: assassinated by who?the assasin say just that he is responisble and afte he suicide
Constantine I:The Greaters modern Greek King and that's why he take the name King-General
George II: I agree with his actions
Paul:As I said i am anti-communist
Constantine II:the only mistake is that he made the detection movement against the regime of 21 April
EmperorOfTheHellenes 2 years ago
ΝΑ ΕΙΧΑΝ ΤΟΥΛΑΧΙΣΤΟΝ ΜΙΑ ΣΤΑΓΟΝΑ ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΟ ΑΙΜΑ..............
114BW 2 years ago 11
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εχουν ελληνικο αιμα οπως και ολες οι βασιλικες οικογενειες της Ευρωπης λογω της διπλωματικης πολιτικης της Βυζαντινης Αυτοκρατοριας
EmperorOfTheHellenes 2 years ago
ΟΤΙ ΠΕΙΣ.
114BW 2 years ago 4
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απο το wikipedia
Constantine is a direct descendant of five Greek imperial (Byzantine) dynasties (Monomachos, Komnenos, Laskaris, Angelos, and Palaiologos).[3]
EmperorOfTheHellenes 2 years ago
EmperorOfTheHellenes - And which ones of the Eastern Roman dynasties you listed had Greek ancestry?
Wikipedia is hardly an academic text.
The Eastern Romans were neither Hellenic nor Hellenistic - unlike the real Romans who were Hellenistic and at the same time proud of their Roman identity.
Out of interest, can you think of any Roman Council or Emperor who rented Roman territory to the barbarians? The very Cristian "emperor" Justinian used to rent Cyprus to the Arabs 6 months of the year!
dagmar1991 2 years ago 12
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Greek ancestry had most of them.you think that the Palaiologos or the Komnenos dynasty was not Greek?maybe some emperors were not greek but the meaning of the nation was different at that time.They were all citizens of the Roman Empire
EmperorOfTheHellenes 2 years ago
EmperorOfTheHellenes - Re: The concept of "nation" at that time.
Very well! According to the earlier Roman concept the Greeks were Roman. But so were the Jews. Today according to the concept of the day the Pakistanis in England are British; but are they English. Do they have the same social values?
Also were the Greeks of Crete Turkish till 1900 just because they were under the Othomans?
It is fine with new nations such as the US. But it sounds odd with old and already defined nations!
dagmar1991 2 years ago 9
EmperorOfTheHellenes - Re: The "Greekness" of Mr DeGrecia:
The issue of his national background becomes irrelevant. Democracy in the 6th century BC Athens emerged within a context of the rejection of kingship and tyranny. About 2500 years later, after the French Revolution, European monarchs were given reason to reflect and correct their ways. Those who persisted in their "divine right" to rule over others, had a sad end. The Glücksburgs were very fortunate. They are infact better of now!
dagmar1991 2 years ago 9
Mistyped word in last sentence:
Please read:
They are in fact better off now.
dagmar1991 2 years ago
exei o jefry kata ellada giwrgakis.
corfu75 2 years ago
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ZITO O VASILIAS ZITO TO E8NOS!!!!!!!!
alejandro9543 2 years ago
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ΖΗΤΩ Ο ΒΑΣΙΛΙΑΣ!
EASTWOUD 2 years ago
Στο διάλο οι παπάδες...στο διάλο και οι Βασιλιάδες...
Theokondak 2 years ago 27
ΜΠΟΡΕΙ ΝΑ ΕΙΝΑΙ ΒΑΣΙΛΕΥΣ ΤΩΝ ΕΛΛΗΝΩΝ, ΜΙΑ ΚΑ ΠΟΥ ΤΟ ΕΘΝΙΚΟ ΜΑΣ ΣΠΟΡ ΕΙΝΑΙ ΤΟ ΠΟΥΛΗΜΑ, ΑΛΛΑ ΠΟΤΕ ΔΕΝ ΘΑ ΕΙΝΑΙ ΒΑΣΙΛΕΥΣ ΤΗΣ ΕΛΛΑΔΟΣ. Ο ΤΕΛΕΥΤΑΙΟΣ ΤΗΣ ΒΑΣΙΛΕΥΣ ΗΤΑΝ Ο ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΑΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ. ΣΕ ΚΑΘΕ ΠΟΛΕΜΟ ΕΒΓΑΖΑΝ ΟΛΑ ΤΑ ΛΕΦΤΑ ΤΟΥ ΚΡΑΤΟΥΣ ΕΞΩ ΟΙ ΚΛΕΦΤΑΡΑΔΕΣ ΟΙ ΓΛΙΞΜΠΟΥΡΓΚ
xenioszeus1 2 years ago 7
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alejandro9543 2 years ago