Introduction to Meaningful Gamification

[SilverAvoify]

The suggestion up the thread about experience points really got me thinking. XP are a reward that isn't *external* to the game structure. In a workplace they could become extra responsibility and privileges within an organisation - perhaps even for real promotions or shifts in job titles, like a shift from 'junior' to 'senior' whatever your role. This makes me think there is scope to investigate more meaningful forms of reward as well as more meaningful game structures.

[Amrito78]

I like this new term. I'm a passionate board gamer, I used to play RPGs and I invented some languages for fantasy games. So I could use my language skills for games purposes.

I'm a psychotherapist too, so I know role-playing and artistic expression (like painting) as means of expressing yourself. But I often wonder if I could introduce more of my game experiences in my work with people. Another idea I have in mind is inventing a game that represenst basic psychological processes. Any ideas? :o)

[snicholson]

@Amrito78 Someone who saw this video wrote and chatted with me about Jungian's Synchronicity concept, and I'm going to pursue that more when I'm exploring the concept of meaningful. It's all about finding the possible connections between the game mechanism and the underlying content.

[Tiwaking]

That was actually a very good (and short) explanation on organisational behaviour in general :D

[WelcomeToZomboCom]

so to summarize, you want the workers to participate in those game activities not because of the rewards, but because of the intrinsic value of the activity itself?

[mrmgrace]

Sometimes you don't need a reward for people to enjoy. The activity it self as long as it is fun is the reward.

[mrmgrace]

Four Square is a good example of Gamification...

[craigp223]

"Gamification" is really a huge umbrella term, and a pretty badly battered umbrella at that.

I'd much rather discuss the individual pieces beneath that umbrella, such as how to make a scaffold for sharing and/or competition between participants. I understand that you'll be discussing those individual pieces, but each serves a very different purpose and could use a book on its own.

Anyway, I'll be reading your book when it comes out.

[Medsas]

i dont even see how external rewards can be considered gamification....isnt money a reward as well? so having a job and getting paid for it is a game? just rewards is not close enough to games...

[snicholson]

@Medsas Gamification is about applying game elements to non-game activities. The problem comes when those game elements are based on external rewards, and not being engaging and meaningful game elements. I'm arguing that if the game elements are meaningful and engaging, then they don't need the external rewards as well.

[Medsas]

@snicholson I understand, but I don't think external rewards are game elements. Otherwise, you could treat any job as a game where the reward is money (your salary).

[vidjogamer]

@Medsas I just want to point out that you do not get more rewards for playing better at most jobs.

[WelcomeToZomboCom]

@vidjogamer good point

[Tiwaking]

@Medsas Roleplaying games (electronic and tabletop) contain two 'rewards': Money and Experience. The more 'experience' you get the better chance you have of defeating a higher 'level' of challenge.

This idea can (and is) be applied to worker/management/ceo. General electric would fire the bottom 10% of its managers. In gaming terms: That would be sacrificing pieces to checkmate a king.

[williamj49]

Hmm. I like the idea of incorporating the fun and not just the scoring. Maybe we'll use a worker placement board to divide up household chores from now on. :)

[dajusta87]

I have been apart of Children's ministry for the church in Vancouver BC and we reward kids with prizes and candy for doing good work. We have found that teens and college students are less centered on church and have been wondering for years. Maybe it is because of this gamification that replaces their internal motivation with external rewards. Rewards that stop after a certain age in life.

[snicholson]

@dajusta87 That is a very interesting thought. I hadn't considered the fact that when the rewards no longer interest someone because they are older, it will have the same effect as not offering the reward.

[mrmgrace]

@dajusta87 Yeah rewards can be a dangerous thing.

[frobnic8]

Cheap gamification does seem to be everywhere.

Acheivements and points can help, however, as internal tools for providing feedback. Scoring points is a way to provide feedback about progress. Achievements also do this, but they help to provide recognition of progress that is composed of multiple separate acts, rather than a repeated one which continuously gives points.

In complex activities, these can provide a roadmap or guide to how to engage with the activity.

[frobnic8]

That said, it really is the meaningful part that makes the difference between being helpful, and just being a "bonus card" program.

[calandale]

New term to me - but at the most basic level, it just sounds like civilization.

I'm not sure how much adding game elements helps things when pushed inorganically.

One example is 'planning poker' in agile sprint planning. It's a way of putting a bid

on difficulty of a task, but not terribly 'fun'. Basically just a starting point for achieving

consensus on a number.

[satragon]

@calandale Man, when you said that I wondered where my Mountain Goat software cards went. Certainly not as fun as the games that we are used to, but for snooty patootie corporate types on the last agile project I ran, they really had a good time on it.  We had a food etc. and people even brought visors as a joke.

[algi80]

What do you think about Foldit?

[GrandElemental]

There is a module for Visual Studio which allows you to get achievements when programming. =)

[fiddlerjones84]

I agree with anotherelvis. I like what you're saying here about gamification. Games consist of two main parts: play and reward. Current gamification techniques only take advantage of that second part. That said, I would have loved to hear an example or two of how you're imagining incorporating the "play" aspect of games into non-game activities.

[satragon]

@fiddlerjones84 You know this make me think of the role passing that goes on in some games, a la Puerto Rico or Twilight Imperium. What if we made people serve as different roles rotating weekly on a project for example.

[anotherelvis]

These ideas sound like fun, but they also a slightly abstract.

At some point it would be interesting to have a video with short descriptions of some of the case studies.

[snicholson]

@anotherelvis Yes, that's the next step. I'm starting with theory, and now am moving to apply that theory into practice. I'm working on a book where each chapter goes through a different setting with ways to apply game design techniques.

[campaz83]

cool. So true about point systems. Once the tests are over, the knowledge goes out the window...

[CrazyLazySnazzyJazzy]

Very interesting. I honestly never thought of this whole "gamification" idea.

[JasperSnail]

First :)