coming from an omnivores perspective I agree animals are no longer hunted or even appreciated for what we take, they are slaughtered by the millions without remorse
omg this is such shit its fucking five minutes of ass music vegetarianism and veganism is retarded cows are their for a reason so i can eat the shit out of them bit of steak give me that fuck u all :P
I exercise alot & i thought i coudn't live with out meat,, Meat tastes good ,& we are are the top of the foodchain But im a vegetarian for health reasons . meat digest's slower & sits in our stomach's longer, so if U dont want colon disease go veggie ..i have so much energy since i gave up meat ..U can get your vitamin D from marmite & your protein from fish , & dairy products , Seriously U will feel healthier
@TheCrystalknight71 Wait... you're not a vegetarian if you eat fish =P . The term is pescitarian. And do you make sure to know how the dairy farms that produce your milk operate? Because it can get pretty bad.
@icygood101 Thanks 4 cluing me up on the right terminology , I concur mass producing dariy frams can lead 2 the livestock having a harsh existance , but its quite hard to live on a budget & do the right thing towards animals, but i try ! ..I will always defend the rights of all animals ,No animal should suffer at the hands of men ;-)
I'm clearing this up for you idiots.. plants have no nerve endings, or a nervous system period.. therefore they don't feel pain... they can also regrow their limbs, whereas animals feel pain, and can't.. and die when bled....
Nothing against the Smiths and Morrisey....but man, the first time I heard this song. The ultimate veggie song. Every time I hear this song, it makes me crave a steak :)
I'm Vegetarian and I'm not against eating meat. But I think those who want eat it should go hunting it by themselves. Then you can come with the argument that it's natural.
@twistedgaboROFL Thats the stupidest comment i´ve ever read, plants are living things and it´s ok to "kill" them BECAUSE THATS THE CICLE OF NATURE. You "kill" to give life.
@radioheadyorke anyways you have a point of view different than mine and thats ok i wont try to change it, i also dont agree with the undiscriminated murdering of animals in factories, but i allso dont agree that we should only eat plants, you know? if we were designed for that we wouldnt have the kind of teeth we have, that is why we are designed to be omnivores
@twistedgaboROFL Who do you think designed you? God? You haven't been designed and even if you were you were designed to have the morality to see that senseless killing is wrong. Why are pedophiles attracted to children if they aren't supposed to rape them - why were rapists designed to be rapists etc I cba explaining this to you I'm going to teleport to the future when hopefully people have morality.. -.-
@SatoriWins i already said i do not agree with the mass killing of animals in factories, but leaving that aside i m trying to say that there is nothing wrong with eating meat , i mean it in its dennotative sense, not all of the connotations like mass killing animals, etc, and as i said, our bodies are designed by God, Nature, Buda or whatever u believe in to be omnivores, thats why we cant digest celulose one of the main components in plants, if u are a vegetarian,its ur choice,its k
eating meat is murder. but even worse is, these animals are not killed in a jungle. they are being killed in massive numbers in factories within steel machines in serial meat production lines. the first minute in the track describes this, you hear the sound of machines/steel saw together with the voices of cows.
And also, was it always 80% (lol) meat in the diet in your opinion? When did our ancestors start consuming this much and when did they stop? And why is that relevant to this day and age and to the question should we eat meat? You are just trying to justify killing animals by trying to rationalize the irrational. It's the typical mentality of carnists.
@AmalamCooper 80% meat? Are you kidding me?! I have proof that says something else, but can you be so kind to provide the proof of your claim. Thank you.
@ZoldierrZzz There is no "proof" for either of these claims, only evidence. How much meat we eat is entirely dependent on where we live (in terms of "wild people") If you live in the Artic you will eat meat, or you will die. How much fruit and veg do you see growing in the artic? We lived through an ice age, so we obviously ate meat then. In other climates tribes survive on a diet of far less meat. However, if we go back to the "wild" now you will eat meat, depending on where you live...
@ZoldierrZzz I'll be very surprised if you told me you ONLY ate fruit, roots and vegetables that grow naturally in your own country, and ONLY in the season they grow. If you did do that, you'd be very sick. We can't get all the nutrients we need from our wild plants. If you think you can prove me wrong go ahead, I'll just be laughing when you're hospitalised with malnutrition.
So, only because the food I eat wouldn't exist "naturally" in the wild, that justifies killing billions of animals even though we can survive without it? You are stupid. And the "wild" isn't even what it was before we overpopulated the earth and conquered every bit of land, taking monopoly of food sources and selling them to people. The earth used to be full with food everywhere that our ancestors ate. And are you suggesting that pigs and cows existed everywhere on the earth? Lol.
And hey, if you want me to keep on answering your so called "arguments" (nonsense, really) I'd expect that you answered my questions. It's like I debunk your bullshit, and then you throw something new at me, I debunk that shit and you do the same again. This discussion is almost pointless if you are going to act like this.
@AmalamCooper Yeah right, what sick and disturbed human will tell strangers that the he/she was a victim of rape? I don't buy your bullshit and even if it was true that doesn't make your opinion right. Rapists, murderers and meat eaters will violate, kill and exploit innocent human and nonhuman animals for their own personal gain like pleasure, taste, profit etc. It's immoral, barbaric and selfish. Period.
@ZoldierrZzz How am I sick and disturbed for choosing to tell someone something I went through? I wasn't the one in the wrong and there's no reason I should be ashamed to admit that I was a victim of something barbaric. The modern meat industry is wrong, but to eat meat in itself is not wrong. If we all hunted our own food instead of buying I would still eat meat. How dare you try and use your dietry choice to claim any moral high ground when you make comments that completely undermine...
I still don't believe you and if you were raped is irrelevant to the question should we eat meat. And the obvious answer is no. You mean you don't eat meat because the way they are treated? So you recognize that it's wrong to treat them bad but there isn't anything wrong with killing them!? Hypocrite. Killing is the worst act one can do to a living creature. We humans can survive without meat and we don't have to kill animals, we have a choice. We are not forced to kill. Idiot.
@ZoldierrZzz Humans are biologically omnivorous and anyone who's studied biology beyond GCSE will tell you that. Currently we do not need to eat meat to survive, there are plenty of alternatives. However If our entire society crumbled we would not have most of the alternatives. Most of the vegetables and plants we eat are gained through farming, which would also crumble with society. Humans can not digest grass and other such plants, no matter what you say...
We're not omnivorous and even if we were it doesn't justify killing animals. We're not primitive cavemen anymore and it's time we stopped acting like those. What" alternatives" are you talking about? Most plants and vegetables are gained through farming and? Do you know that our meat eating society is destroying the environment? Wasting natural resources and contributing to deforestation and gas emissions?
@ZoldierrZzz ...if we did have some big "social apocolypse" where we were living out in nature with no luxury at all and you still wanted to survive; you would eat your words and eat meat.
"if we did have some big "social apocolypse" where we were living out in nature with no luxury at all and you still wanted to survive; you would eat your words and eat meat."
In what fantasy world of yours would this ever happen? And if there were no plants to eat we would die out, we can't live on meat only. And there is a difference between having a choice and being forced to do something.
@ZoldierrZzz ... the horrific experiences that people have been through, and then call people who actually know what it's like to be a victim of these crimes sick and disturbed and bullshitters.
@ZoldierrZzz ... the horrific experiences that people have been through, and then call people who actually know what it's like to be a victim of these crimes sick and disturbed and bullshitters.
@ZoldierrZzz the horrific experiences that people have been through, and then call people who actually know what it's like to be a victim of these crimes sick and disturbed and bullshitters
This is the reason I could never get into the Smiths, and I enjoy all forms of music, believe me.
It seems like a lot of the people here have absorbed Morrissey's self-righteous attitude based on something as insignificant as a dietary choice. I prefer the song Beef & Broccoli by Immortal Technique.
It's not just a dietary choice. The lives of the countless billions of animals we kill, exploit and torture for food, clothes and "fun" every year are NOT insignificant. Their lives matter to them, they're in the world and aware of it, they have a will to live. We don't have any good reasons not to let them. Humans don't need meat in order to survive and live healthy. We can be good and show animals kindness, but instead we act like nazis.
@ZoldierrZzz There's nothing wrong with vegetarianism, but expecting everyone to disown the average human diet and the meat industry because of a moral epiphany is ridiculous. The worst treatment of animals are in places like China which have no real regulations against animal cruelty but the human rights abuses of these places should have priority anyway. Also, how do you shift hundreds of millions of workers out of an industry to find other employment?
So I can kill you even though I don't have to and then when someone tells me I'm morally wrong I should tell them that it was insignificant and they are ridiculous?
"China which have no real regulations against animal cruelty"
Now you care about animal cruelty? So killing someone is not cruel?
"how do you shift hundreds of millions of workers out of an industry to find other employment?"
The world won't go vegan in one day, people will become vegans gradually.
@ZoldierrZzz I do care about animal cruelty, but I don't consider killing something painlessly particularly cruel, whether it's animal or a human. When they keep chickens in boxes smaller than their wingspan that is undoubtedly cruelty, however.
"I do care about animal cruelty, but I don't consider killing something painlessly particularly cruel, whether it's animal or a human."
So you wouldn't care being in the place of the animals that we slaughter? And it's not painlessly. That's not even the point, who the hell are you to decide when animals should get born and die. That's fucking fascist, to take a life for your own benefit. So I have the right to kill you if it's done painlessly?
To achieve your goals it would take the bi-partisan support of every major country in the world, decades of the gradual phasing out of meat production globally and propaganda on a global scale. All of this coming from a group that represents about 5% of the earth's population (The vast majority of that is India, where vegetarianism is almost solely linked to religious beliefs, not a moral stance.)
"decades of the gradual phasing out of meat production globally and propaganda on a global scale."
Yes, it will take decades, but by propaganda? No, only the truth. It's propaganda that's brainwashed us to eat animals and support animal cruelty. We're not cavemen anymore and it's time we stopped acting like those. We've been brainwashed to believe that only meat contains protein or that we need to suck on the breasts of another animal to get the calcium the human body needs.
@ZoldierrZzz Replying to the first comment: The "how would you like it?" approach is not convincing because I find it hard to empathize or see much human relation with livestock animals. This is why I wouldn't eat a cat, dog, horse, dolphin, primate etc. because of their affinity with humans.
Second comment: My use of the word 'propaganda' was to describe the level of impact and influence any form of pro-vegan sentiment would need to sway a population to embrace vegetarianism.
@aaaaaaaaaajgvgjyc I think 'how would you like it' is either a simplification or a misinterpretation. The question is what human arrogance deems us significant enough to take authority over another life form; deciding whether or not to permit it to exist. The implication that human relation determines the value of a life says a lot for how we percieve ourselves. Call me cynical or misanthropic but I think , being as destructive as we are, we need to re-evaluate our view of our race.
@aaaaaaaaaajgvgjyc There would be naturally more demand of vegetables and other kinds of food, therefore people would have to work on it.
Anyway there's no way to say that people would stop eating meat, the thing is, if there wasn't such a need for it, if people that eat meat , included other things beside meat, to be full in one meal, they would be much healthier, and people can eat other kind of stuff in their meals, so if farming could be reduced, there might be a better treat for animals.
first heard this song in 1986 on the radio. the engine of my nissan 240Z purred calmly as moz's voice wailed on. I was so taken aback that i stopped my car near a dairy farm. i got out and approached a cow, I viewed my reflection in the luminous cornea of the bovine creature as i drove my serrated blade straight into her throat, cuddling the crimson stream of fluid with my fist as her final gaze was my evenly tanned face,I then licked my palm clean of the blood, did you know im utterly insane?
I'm a raw vegan...and I will try to limit any suffering at the expense of others for the convenience of my own (human or not), although I know being in a first world nation...has already put me a disadvantage
Changing to become Vegetarian / Vegan is to much hassle / cost and its not like its going to make a big difference even if I don't approve on the cruelty of animals for food. On another note its not like the animal is been murdered purposely for me, it will die regardless so by not eating its meat its a murder for no reason.
@MrZilvaco Cost? How much do you drop a week on groceries?? Meat and dairy are two of the most expensive food items you can purchase. I spend, at most, $100 a month on groceries. If all you eat is the processed "veg" crap, then yes it will cost you. As for your murder comment...supply is only fueled by demand. And yes, the actions of an individual DO make a difference. Accepting responsibility however makes most folks turn a blind eye, which is sad. I wish you the best.
if our bodies are not naturally designed to eat meat, why is it something people do all over the world willingly? Surely human success is because we're so adaptable, we can survive on pretty much anything. I'm a vegetarian and don't think we're naturally herbivorous, or even omnivorous so much as "take what you can get", though obv we don't *need* meat.
26 years as first a vegetarian and then a vegan thanks to The Smiths. And it really doesn't matter if we were equipped as omnivores-our society has progressed to the point were we can easily be herbivores with no detrimental effects upon our health, wallet, or convenience. In the cavemen days we ate animals (and sometimes each other) because we had to in order to survive--that's no longer the case. The question now is not "Do we need to eat meat?", but rather, "Should we?" Killing is wrong.
This song made me become vegetarian.... Now 24lbs lighter and increased muscle mass I have never looked back. Who said we should eat meat? Its not natural, normal or kind.
Love the song. Hate the self-righteousness of those who proclaim that being a vegetarian/vegan somehow makes them better than everyone else. The working conditions of those in the field that picked your carrots and plucked the oranges for your organic juice to go along with your gluten-free toast are subjected to abuses that most of you seem to conveniently forget for the sake of making a statement. Let people make their own choices. Sheesh!
I made the mistake of watching "grow it, kill it,eat it" on BBC 4 the other week - the most vile repugnant thing ive ever seen- utter pornography. They showed baby goat's being slaughtered under the guise of "Education". I'm still affected by it, Humans, the worst thing to ever happen to Planet Earth. Behead Ronald McDonald!!!!!!
i respect what his message is his and his lifestyle choice, but i believe the animals we choose to eat for substance are put here for the use of humans. There is a reason why cows are much more easily bred and domesticated then say...idk a tiger haha.
@bobbydylanio of course it wouldn't...don't be ridiculous, thats not what i was saying. However, why would you not eat meat? It tastes great and adds diversity to a diet. Perhaps i'm biased because my grandfather owns a farm and i've grown up helping him snap the necks on the chickens and such and seeing the animals killed for food seems just natural to me.
@The9226192 of course not, you cannot compare animals and humans equally on that level. If you believe we should not kill animals for food then i respect that, i'm simply saying that i personally believe that we should use them for that purpose.
@The9226192 well if you think that a dog is equal to you, then by all means go ahead and think that. I'd say the biggest difference is the ability to distinguish right from wrong.
@ShowsomeFury Humans have much less sense of right and wrong than humans. The Holocaust? Serial Killers? Drugs, Alcohol,Tobacco? Rapists? the list goes on and on
@The9226192 i'd say the good humans are capable far out ways the bad. there are exceptions of people not being able to distinguish, but most of those instances are people who choose to do bad. Like i said though, i believe most people choose to do good.
Humans are capable of so much more than animals. i don't believe that you actually believe humans and animals are purely equal.
I became vegetarian two years ago, because I was so disgusted to have the feeling to be eating a living being, this taste of corpse was no longer bearable. So, now i'm only eating fruits, vegetables and sometimes eggs and fish (1 day per month for proteins). And I'm great ! Animals should live as we do !
As a kid, I witnessed halal-slaughter, the way muslims prepare their meat in the name of god. They used a machete and cutted the lambs' throat so that it bled to death by cutting the main artery.. it was LOT OF BLOOD everywere.... And guess what? Im eating meat :) EVERY SINGLE DAY.. Its about choice of life.
Eating meat is not "following its own nature" if you are a human being. It is a learned behavior, one that we, the environment and the animals don't need. Humans are herbivorous animals capable of being scavengers (not to be confused with omnivores). Only because we can eat dead corpses (human and nonhuman), smoke, do drugs, kill other humans, rape other humans, doesn't mean it's what we are supposed to do.
@ZoldierrZzz Eating meat IS FOLLOWING our own nature.. Out teeth are made for eating meat, if we would be made as vegetarians (geneticly) we would have teeth made for rumination. Also, if our bodies doesn't need meat, why does so many vegetarians have to take supplements for vitamins, sinc and iron? Our body needs these things for hormones, hair and other cell-productions. And dont tell me you can find the same amout of these things in a vegetable.. Its important, but doesnt contain enough stuff
They don't need to take supplements. Many are generally health conscious and seek a well rounded intake for the benefit. They don't even need to supplement them, it just takes a bit of know how. Thing is though, that people who eat meat are usually deficient in all kinds of ideal vitamin and mineral intake. It's got nothing to do with meat. There's nothing profoundly unique about meat that you can't get the nutrition without it. Meat eater or not, it is purely a lifestyle choice.
@ims2703 You miss the point! It's the scale,the violence, the lives that these animals are forced to live.It isn't about whether we are or are not meant to eat meat from a scientific perspective,it is about the whole trade, not the shape of our fucking teeth.And if you're going to talk nature how about this, name a carnivore without claws. name one with flat molars for chewing.You can't. Why?because they don't exist.Do you think you're tiny teeth could rip through your arm?You arent a carnivore.
@ZoldierrZzz Um. no. Humans are omnivores period. We are also predators. We share forward facing eyes and canines like lions, bears, hyenas, etc. The latter also sharing scavenger behaviors as well.
Unlike herbivores such as cows, giraffes, and horses, which neither have canines or forward facing vision.
Not to mention, that humans require a very special mix of vegetation in order make complete proteins to survive as vegan only. One would argue that the vegan life is the learned behavior
@ZoldierrZzz I checked out your site. Pseudo scientific with opinion at best but didn't address the most damning question. Humans inability to live without complete proteins. Got a website for that too?
I know you can mix certain vegetation but the ability to do that is thanks to modern inventions. Go tell an Eskimo that he/she can live on nothing but indigenous plant life. The ability to be a vegan is very based on geography and technology.
No pseudo science there, did you even read it? Look, I know there are many things that one can make up to try to justify meat eating, like: "tell an eskimo he can live on nothing but indigenous plant life". But these are not reasons to continue eating meat, those are reasons to improve their living conditions so that they can survive on plants. But one step at the time, the whole world won't change in one day.
@ZoldierrZzz Yes, I did read it. He makes very specific comparisons to prove a point. He uses the examples not as a conclusion, but to support an argument. Nor does he mention what samples are considered. That's not science and it's intellectually dishonest.
I understand the mixes required to *make* complete proteins, but that's not what we were talking about. Humans cannot live on grass or leaves like a true herbivore they can do that on meat but work best on a balance.
@ZoldierrZzz Furthermore, some of the arguments on the site mention that humans don't use the entire animal and that we like them in neat packets in a supermarket.
That's truly telling of the level of understanding that went in to your website. If you have ever been to the rural south, or europe, or even the far east, perhaps even Nova Scotia or Scotland. It's a complete fabrication that statement.
New Guinea tribes eat meat with rarely meeting outside humans. Where did they *learn* that?
It's ok to say that you feel vegan is a more humanitarian choice. It's ok to say that it's a possible choice or lifestyle. It's ok to say you think eating meat is wrong.
It's not ok to try and revise science to state that humans are born vegetarian. That is an extraordinary unsubstantiated claim.
"It's ok to say that you feel vegan is a more humanitarian choice."
I not only feel it, I know it is. Thinking about it, even if I didn't give a shit about animals, it would still be immoral to support their execution. I don't care for some humans on this planet, but I would never support their execution to benefit others.
"It's not ok to try and revise science to state that humans are born vegetarian."
Physiologically we resemble herbivores more than omnivores, a scientific fact.
@ZoldierrZzz "Physiologically we resemble herbivores more than omnivores, a scientific fact."
Another untruth and not even close to fact.
We produce hydrochloric acid in our stomach, no herbivore does that. Our intestines are not as long, we have 1 stomach, we do not chew cud. Our pancreas produces a full range of enzymes for digesting a range of foods. Low synthesis rate of taurine and DHA and fossils show dependance on animal proteins 2.5 million years ago.
@ZoldierrZzz Why don't you argue yourself instead of pointing to a website? Just because I didn't drink the coolaid from your article does not mean I didn't read it.
How about addressing the points I posted instead of being dodgy?
Because all of your points are pointless. Just ignorant excuses to continue barbarism. This is all that matters: If we can avoid killing, then it's our moral obligation to do so. Humans don't need meat which means we don't need to kill animals. Humans, like other primates, can live perfectly healthy on a plant-based diet. We should all be working together to make it possible for everyone to have this privilege. Even if it won't happen in a day.
@ZoldierrZzz Moral obligation? Your point was that humans are natural vegans. My responses are directly in line with that assertion. Don't skirt the issue by trying to change the topic.
Humans are omnivores. That is a scientific fact. That is what they are classified as and for good reasons as I have shown. We have a history of meat consumption up to 2.5 million years ago.
Also, I've known vegans that have died to heart failure. I do not share your belief it is healthier.
@ZoldierrZzz If we are or are not vegans is central to the entire discussion we've been having thus far.
So far you implied humans eat meat as a learned behavior, are scavengers (not to be confused with omnivores), and that you lumped in eating meat with doing drugs, drinking, murder, and rape.
The counter to that is that it's natural and in direct line with our nature and I think that your position is based on an ideal as opposed to a reality.
That discussion is pointless. You won't accept the fact that we are herbivorous animals because we live in such a religious society where everyone accepts what they've been learned to do or believe without questioning it. "We are omnivores, we need meat because of protein, we need breastmilk from cows to get calcium" etc etc. Humans grow up with carnism and then they defend it, because that's what they've learned. I'm telling you, the only thing that matters is where we go from now.
@ZoldierrZzz First off, I'm a militant atheist and I don't accept arguments from authority, including yours.
I have been educated to understand the mechanics behind nutrition. We need complete proteins or we die. That is a simple fact.
I have friends that are vegans. It's clear to me that their teeth and hair appear to be not very healthy. One, an ex marine who ran 10 miles a day dropped dead on a run from heart failure. I am convinced it was due to his lack of complete proteins in his diet.
Realizing that religion is bullshit doesn't make you ethical, reasonable or civilized. It requires something more, like morality, compassion and kindness. And you can get complete proteins in a vegan diet, educate yourself. Your observation of your "friends" is irrelevant. There are healthy vegan athletes.
@losghost Their is actually more protein in plants than and its better for you. There has been research done into the Vegan diet and cancer. High meat eating countries have higher rates of cancer than countries with relatively low meat consumption. Ive been vegetarian for two years and Im perfectly healthy, not about to die from lack of protein.
@skiparoundincircles I never said there were not enough protein in plants, just that plants do not have complete proteins. This was a discussion in response to someone making a defacto statement that humans are natural born vegans. I was disputing that statement.
Erm, humans DO need meat! We have to have a healthy intake of vitamin 12 or we die. FACT, Not opinion. No moral issue, if we do not consume b12 we die.
12 years without meat...I'll beat any meat eater at an arm wrestle.
JohnPurchaseArt 2 days ago 2
coming from an omnivores perspective I agree animals are no longer hunted or even appreciated for what we take, they are slaughtered by the millions without remorse
EdandevilTim 1 week ago
MEAT IS MURDER
MILK IS RAPE
BUT WHAT REALLY TASTES GOOD
IS DEEP FRIED APE
SO GRAB THAT PRIMATE BY THE PAW
AND SERVE HIM UP WITH FRESH COLE SLAW
doobiesmoke15 1 week ago
This is a really good song, it proper shows the truth about meat.
ScreamNagini 1 week ago 3
GO VEG. ;)
emispearsyeah 1 week ago 3
turned vegetarian yesterday. great song.
yayah102 1 week ago 8
omg this is such shit its fucking five minutes of ass music vegetarianism and veganism is retarded cows are their for a reason so i can eat the shit out of them bit of steak give me that fuck u all :P
MrKieranthompson 2 weeks ago
@MrKieranthompson Learn grammar and your opinion will be respected.
frootloopwarriors 1 week ago 4
@frootloopwarriors His opinion wouldn't be respected even then. :D
dreamsofelegance 1 day ago
This is a bit heavy handed, but I guess Morrissey was feeling a bit excited about this whole vegetarian thing.
DCow000 2 weeks ago
I exercise alot & i thought i coudn't live with out meat,, Meat tastes good ,& we are are the top of the foodchain But im a vegetarian for health reasons . meat digest's slower & sits in our stomach's longer, so if U dont want colon disease go veggie ..i have so much energy since i gave up meat ..U can get your vitamin D from marmite & your protein from fish , & dairy products , Seriously U will feel healthier
TheCrystalknight71 3 weeks ago
@TheCrystalknight71 Wait... you're not a vegetarian if you eat fish =P . The term is pescitarian. And do you make sure to know how the dairy farms that produce your milk operate? Because it can get pretty bad.
icygood101 2 weeks ago
@icygood101 Thanks 4 cluing me up on the right terminology , I concur mass producing dariy frams can lead 2 the livestock having a harsh existance , but its quite hard to live on a budget & do the right thing towards animals, but i try ! ..I will always defend the rights of all animals ,No animal should suffer at the hands of men ;-)
TheCrystalknight71 2 weeks ago
Just a thought to all you vegans! Remember my food shits on your food...IJS
626starkey 3 weeks ago
@626starkey I don't eat grass, babe .-.
ThePdGirl 3 weeks ago
@ThePdGirl still made me smile....Thanks :)
626starkey 3 weeks ago
@626starkey .-.
ThePdGirl 3 weeks ago
Academic research proving that humans are herbivores: earthsave.ca/files/anatomy.pdf
arlekiins 1 month ago
I'm clearing this up for you idiots.. plants have no nerve endings, or a nervous system period.. therefore they don't feel pain... they can also regrow their limbs, whereas animals feel pain, and can't.. and die when bled....
Luaxen 1 month ago 4
I love this is song.
FUCK ALL, GO VEGAN!
ThePdGirl 1 month ago 28
@ThePdGirl couldn't agree more
Amanda123772 4 weeks ago
@Amanda123772 :)
ThePdGirl 3 weeks ago
@ThePdGirl You said it better than I could. Haha. Short and to the point.
dreamsofelegance 1 day ago
Comment removed
ThePdGirl 1 month ago
The first time i listened this song, the last phrase killed me. ''and who hears when animals cry?'':(
theimperfecta 1 month ago
I can't believe that Youtube/google doesn't show the words "meat is murder" when you search it
marigoldpunkrock93 1 month ago
Nothing against the Smiths and Morrisey....but man, the first time I heard this song. The ultimate veggie song. Every time I hear this song, it makes me crave a steak :)
jlgarciajr 1 month ago
@jlgarciajr That's disgusting. And twisted.
dreamsofelegance 1 day ago
vegetarians ruleeeeeeeeeeee
achuulita 1 month ago
I'm Vegetarian and I'm not against eating meat. But I think those who want eat it should go hunting it by themselves. Then you can come with the argument that it's natural.
Blothus 1 month ago
@Blothus do you harvest your own vegetables?
twistedgaboROFL 1 month ago 2
@twistedgaboROFL I hope you asked that as a joke....
Ingratil 1 month ago
@Ingratil I didnt, and you didnt answered, you know, plants are living things too, is it ok to eat them?
twistedgaboROFL 1 month ago
@twistedgaboROFL Thats the stupidest comment i´ve ever read, plants are living things and it´s ok to "kill" them BECAUSE THATS THE CICLE OF NATURE. You "kill" to give life.
Stupid carnivore...
radioheadyorke 1 month ago
@radioheadyorke using that argument, so it ia to eat animals
twistedgaboROFL 1 month ago
@radioheadyorke anyways you have a point of view different than mine and thats ok i wont try to change it, i also dont agree with the undiscriminated murdering of animals in factories, but i allso dont agree that we should only eat plants, you know? if we were designed for that we wouldnt have the kind of teeth we have, that is why we are designed to be omnivores
twistedgaboROFL 1 month ago
@twistedgaboROFL Who do you think designed you? God? You haven't been designed and even if you were you were designed to have the morality to see that senseless killing is wrong. Why are pedophiles attracted to children if they aren't supposed to rape them - why were rapists designed to be rapists etc I cba explaining this to you I'm going to teleport to the future when hopefully people have morality.. -.-
SatoriWins 1 month ago 3
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@SatoriWins i already said i do not agree with the mass killing of animals in factories, but leaving that aside i m trying to say that there is nothing wrong with eating meat , i mean it in its dennotative sense, not all of the connotations like mass killing animals, etc, and as i said, our bodies are designed by God, Nature, Buda or whatever u believe in to be omnivores, thats why we cant digest celulose one of the main components in plants, if u are a vegetarian,its ur choice,its k
twistedgaboROFL 1 month ago
eating meat is murder. but even worse is, these animals are not killed in a jungle. they are being killed in massive numbers in factories within steel machines in serial meat production lines. the first minute in the track describes this, you hear the sound of machines/steel saw together with the voices of cows.
mudalmis 1 month ago
That's life..........Too many carnivores on this planet.
jlgarciajr 1 month ago 3
Morrissey is the king of the kings of the univer of the univers .
MrChrisleherou 1 month ago
Consommer de la viande assassine les 4/5 du restant de l'humanité et celà est admis par tout être pensant .
Le calcul qui amène à ces conclusions demande un age mental de 6.5 ans .
Alors pourquoi rien ne change , si ce n'est que l'age mental moyen de l'espèce humaine est de 6.5 ans ?
C'est une réalité incontourrnable et qu'il est impossible de critiquer ?
Aucun argume,t n'existe .
Et pourtant ....................................................................;
MrChrisleherou 1 month ago
How crazy, a guy on Omegle suggested this to me.
nirmz94 2 months ago 14
no meat !
LuanKenon 2 months ago
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@AmalamCooper
And also, was it always 80% (lol) meat in the diet in your opinion? When did our ancestors start consuming this much and when did they stop? And why is that relevant to this day and age and to the question should we eat meat? You are just trying to justify killing animals by trying to rationalize the irrational. It's the typical mentality of carnists.
Read this:
thinkatheist . com/forum/topics/the-religion-of-meat
ZoldierrZzz 2 months ago
Comment removed
ZoldierrZzz 2 months ago
@AmalamCooper 80% meat? Are you kidding me?! I have proof that says something else, but can you be so kind to provide the proof of your claim. Thank you.
ZoldierrZzz 2 months ago
@ZoldierrZzz There is no "proof" for either of these claims, only evidence. How much meat we eat is entirely dependent on where we live (in terms of "wild people") If you live in the Artic you will eat meat, or you will die. How much fruit and veg do you see growing in the artic? We lived through an ice age, so we obviously ate meat then. In other climates tribes survive on a diet of far less meat. However, if we go back to the "wild" now you will eat meat, depending on where you live...
AmalamCooper 2 months ago
@ZoldierrZzz I'll be very surprised if you told me you ONLY ate fruit, roots and vegetables that grow naturally in your own country, and ONLY in the season they grow. If you did do that, you'd be very sick. We can't get all the nutrients we need from our wild plants. If you think you can prove me wrong go ahead, I'll just be laughing when you're hospitalised with malnutrition.
AmalamCooper 2 months ago
@AmalamCooper
So, only because the food I eat wouldn't exist "naturally" in the wild, that justifies killing billions of animals even though we can survive without it? You are stupid. And the "wild" isn't even what it was before we overpopulated the earth and conquered every bit of land, taking monopoly of food sources and selling them to people. The earth used to be full with food everywhere that our ancestors ate. And are you suggesting that pigs and cows existed everywhere on the earth? Lol.
ZoldierrZzz 2 months ago
@AmalamCooper
Stop trying to rationalize the irrational, read this:
thinkatheist . com/forum/topics/the-religion-of-meat
ZoldierrZzz 2 months ago
@AmalamCooper
And hey, if you want me to keep on answering your so called "arguments" (nonsense, really) I'd expect that you answered my questions. It's like I debunk your bullshit, and then you throw something new at me, I debunk that shit and you do the same again. This discussion is almost pointless if you are going to act like this.
ZoldierrZzz 2 months ago
@AmalamCooper Yeah right, what sick and disturbed human will tell strangers that the he/she was a victim of rape? I don't buy your bullshit and even if it was true that doesn't make your opinion right. Rapists, murderers and meat eaters will violate, kill and exploit innocent human and nonhuman animals for their own personal gain like pleasure, taste, profit etc. It's immoral, barbaric and selfish. Period.
ZoldierrZzz 2 months ago
@ZoldierrZzz How am I sick and disturbed for choosing to tell someone something I went through? I wasn't the one in the wrong and there's no reason I should be ashamed to admit that I was a victim of something barbaric. The modern meat industry is wrong, but to eat meat in itself is not wrong. If we all hunted our own food instead of buying I would still eat meat. How dare you try and use your dietry choice to claim any moral high ground when you make comments that completely undermine...
AmalamCooper 2 months ago
@AmalamCooper
I still don't believe you and if you were raped is irrelevant to the question should we eat meat. And the obvious answer is no. You mean you don't eat meat because the way they are treated? So you recognize that it's wrong to treat them bad but there isn't anything wrong with killing them!? Hypocrite. Killing is the worst act one can do to a living creature. We humans can survive without meat and we don't have to kill animals, we have a choice. We are not forced to kill. Idiot.
ZoldierrZzz 2 months ago
@ZoldierrZzz Humans are biologically omnivorous and anyone who's studied biology beyond GCSE will tell you that. Currently we do not need to eat meat to survive, there are plenty of alternatives. However If our entire society crumbled we would not have most of the alternatives. Most of the vegetables and plants we eat are gained through farming, which would also crumble with society. Humans can not digest grass and other such plants, no matter what you say...
AmalamCooper 2 months ago
@AmalamCooper
We're not omnivorous and even if we were it doesn't justify killing animals. We're not primitive cavemen anymore and it's time we stopped acting like those. What" alternatives" are you talking about? Most plants and vegetables are gained through farming and? Do you know that our meat eating society is destroying the environment? Wasting natural resources and contributing to deforestation and gas emissions?
Read:
guardian . co.uk/environment/2010/jun/02/un-report-meat-free-diet
ZoldierrZzz 2 months ago
@ZoldierrZzz ...if we did have some big "social apocolypse" where we were living out in nature with no luxury at all and you still wanted to survive; you would eat your words and eat meat.
p.s. Fuck character limits.
AmalamCooper 2 months ago
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@AmalamCooper
"if we did have some big "social apocolypse" where we were living out in nature with no luxury at all and you still wanted to survive; you would eat your words and eat meat."
In what fantasy world of yours would this ever happen? And if there were no plants to eat we would die out, we can't live on meat only. And there is a difference between having a choice and being forced to do something.
"p.s. Fuck character limits."
Agreed.
ZoldierrZzz 2 months ago
@ZoldierrZzz ... the horrific experiences that people have been through, and then call people who actually know what it's like to be a victim of these crimes sick and disturbed and bullshitters.
AmalamCooper 2 months ago
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@ZoldierrZzz ... the horrific experiences that people have been through, and then call people who actually know what it's like to be a victim of these crimes sick and disturbed and bullshitters.
AmalamCooper 2 months ago
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@ZoldierrZzz the horrific experiences that people have been through, and then call people who actually know what it's like to be a victim of these crimes sick and disturbed and bullshitters
AmalamCooper 2 months ago
Just saw this live in Chicago along with a scary video about animal torture. It makes me rethink my choices of food.
MoneyForYourLove 2 months ago
This is the reason I could never get into the Smiths, and I enjoy all forms of music, believe me.
It seems like a lot of the people here have absorbed Morrissey's self-righteous attitude based on something as insignificant as a dietary choice. I prefer the song Beef & Broccoli by Immortal Technique.
aaaaaaaaaajgvgjyc 2 months ago
@aaaaaaaaaajgvgjyc
"insignificant as a dietary choice"
It's not just a dietary choice. The lives of the countless billions of animals we kill, exploit and torture for food, clothes and "fun" every year are NOT insignificant. Their lives matter to them, they're in the world and aware of it, they have a will to live. We don't have any good reasons not to let them. Humans don't need meat in order to survive and live healthy. We can be good and show animals kindness, but instead we act like nazis.
ZoldierrZzz 2 months ago
@ZoldierrZzz There's nothing wrong with vegetarianism, but expecting everyone to disown the average human diet and the meat industry because of a moral epiphany is ridiculous. The worst treatment of animals are in places like China which have no real regulations against animal cruelty but the human rights abuses of these places should have priority anyway. Also, how do you shift hundreds of millions of workers out of an industry to find other employment?
aaaaaaaaaajgvgjyc 2 months ago
@aaaaaaaaaajgvgjyc
So I can kill you even though I don't have to and then when someone tells me I'm morally wrong I should tell them that it was insignificant and they are ridiculous?
"China which have no real regulations against animal cruelty"
Now you care about animal cruelty? So killing someone is not cruel?
"how do you shift hundreds of millions of workers out of an industry to find other employment?"
The world won't go vegan in one day, people will become vegans gradually.
ZoldierrZzz 2 months ago
@ZoldierrZzz I do care about animal cruelty, but I don't consider killing something painlessly particularly cruel, whether it's animal or a human. When they keep chickens in boxes smaller than their wingspan that is undoubtedly cruelty, however.
...
aaaaaaaaaajgvgjyc 2 months ago
@aaaaaaaaaajgvgjyc
"I do care about animal cruelty, but I don't consider killing something painlessly particularly cruel, whether it's animal or a human."
So you wouldn't care being in the place of the animals that we slaughter? And it's not painlessly. That's not even the point, who the hell are you to decide when animals should get born and die. That's fucking fascist, to take a life for your own benefit. So I have the right to kill you if it's done painlessly?
ZoldierrZzz 2 months ago
@ZoldierrZzz ...
To achieve your goals it would take the bi-partisan support of every major country in the world, decades of the gradual phasing out of meat production globally and propaganda on a global scale. All of this coming from a group that represents about 5% of the earth's population (The vast majority of that is India, where vegetarianism is almost solely linked to religious beliefs, not a moral stance.)
aaaaaaaaaajgvgjyc 2 months ago
@aaaaaaaaaajgvgjyc
"decades of the gradual phasing out of meat production globally and propaganda on a global scale."
Yes, it will take decades, but by propaganda? No, only the truth. It's propaganda that's brainwashed us to eat animals and support animal cruelty. We're not cavemen anymore and it's time we stopped acting like those. We've been brainwashed to believe that only meat contains protein or that we need to suck on the breasts of another animal to get the calcium the human body needs.
ZoldierrZzz 2 months ago
@ZoldierrZzz Replying to the first comment: The "how would you like it?" approach is not convincing because I find it hard to empathize or see much human relation with livestock animals. This is why I wouldn't eat a cat, dog, horse, dolphin, primate etc. because of their affinity with humans.
Second comment: My use of the word 'propaganda' was to describe the level of impact and influence any form of pro-vegan sentiment would need to sway a population to embrace vegetarianism.
aaaaaaaaaajgvgjyc 2 months ago
@aaaaaaaaaajgvgjyc
Thank you for answering my questions, please read about carnism here:
thinkatheist . com/forum/topics/the-religion-of-meat
ZoldierrZzz 2 months ago
@ZoldierrZzz No problem. Hopefully I gave some insight into meat-eating ideology.
aaaaaaaaaajgvgjyc 2 months ago
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@aaaaaaaaaajgvgjyc
If you read the article I gave you you will understand the meat eating ideology (carnism) like I do, an ex-meat eater.
ZoldierrZzz 2 months ago
@aaaaaaaaaajgvgjyc I think 'how would you like it' is either a simplification or a misinterpretation. The question is what human arrogance deems us significant enough to take authority over another life form; deciding whether or not to permit it to exist. The implication that human relation determines the value of a life says a lot for how we percieve ourselves. Call me cynical or misanthropic but I think , being as destructive as we are, we need to re-evaluate our view of our race.
Nekhben1 1 month ago
@Nekhben1 But where do you draw the line? Humans affirm dominance basically whenever they interact with animals, plants or environments.
aaaaaaaaaajgvgjyc 1 month ago
@aaaaaaaaaajgvgjyc There would be naturally more demand of vegetables and other kinds of food, therefore people would have to work on it.
Anyway there's no way to say that people would stop eating meat, the thing is, if there wasn't such a need for it, if people that eat meat , included other things beside meat, to be full in one meal, they would be much healthier, and people can eat other kind of stuff in their meals, so if farming could be reduced, there might be a better treat for animals.
parodita 2 months ago
first heard this song in 1986 on the radio. the engine of my nissan 240Z purred calmly as moz's voice wailed on. I was so taken aback that i stopped my car near a dairy farm. i got out and approached a cow, I viewed my reflection in the luminous cornea of the bovine creature as i drove my serrated blade straight into her throat, cuddling the crimson stream of fluid with my fist as her final gaze was my evenly tanned face,I then licked my palm clean of the blood, did you know im utterly insane?
cominroitover80 2 months ago
amazing how he saw a movement coming
seektherapy70 2 months ago
stop arguing, ''I'm omnivorous and I love this song'' how cares if you are vegan or omnivorous! everyone commits sins!
only SHUT UP AND ENJOY THE MUSIC! please!
cesmelendez 2 months ago
GO VEGAN!!!!!
milenna1992 2 months ago
go-vegan
Teatrinonapoletano 2 months ago
@Teatrinonapoletano I would but...I love cheese way too much. Maybe I'll be a vegan who eats cheese. Occasionally.
kurtywurty85 2 months ago
I'm a raw vegan...and I will try to limit any suffering at the expense of others for the convenience of my own (human or not), although I know being in a first world nation...has already put me a disadvantage
citizenlizard 3 months ago
Happy Thanksgiving everybody!!!
EdMorris1969 3 months ago
Vegans are gay?
PacificSquidBear 3 months ago
Changing to become Vegetarian / Vegan is to much hassle / cost and its not like its going to make a big difference even if I don't approve on the cruelty of animals for food. On another note its not like the animal is been murdered purposely for me, it will die regardless so by not eating its meat its a murder for no reason.
MrZilvaco 3 months ago
@MrZilvaco Lol, how is it too much hassle and cost?
Murder to satisfy an appetite fully capable of being satisfied by something else pretty much equates to murder for no reason imb. <.<
KittyLilyy 3 months ago
@MrZilvaco Cost? How much do you drop a week on groceries?? Meat and dairy are two of the most expensive food items you can purchase. I spend, at most, $100 a month on groceries. If all you eat is the processed "veg" crap, then yes it will cost you. As for your murder comment...supply is only fueled by demand. And yes, the actions of an individual DO make a difference. Accepting responsibility however makes most folks turn a blind eye, which is sad. I wish you the best.
TulsiPunk 2 months ago
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meat is murder
milk is rape
but what really tastes good
is deep fried ape!
So grab that primate by the paw
and serve him up with fresh coleslaw
doobiesmoke15 3 months ago
I love this song, but i hate listening to the animal noises at the beginning :(
PractitionersAlex 3 months ago
so true
padnil2004 3 months ago
vegans should rule the earth
padnil2004 3 months ago
Thanks for uploading - I've been searching for this version for decades !
Daytona721175 3 months ago
This song turned me into a vegetarian when I was 13, it had that much of an effect.
ScientistOfSound1 3 months ago
if our bodies are not naturally designed to eat meat, why is it something people do all over the world willingly? Surely human success is because we're so adaptable, we can survive on pretty much anything. I'm a vegetarian and don't think we're naturally herbivorous, or even omnivorous so much as "take what you can get", though obv we don't *need* meat.
PraecoNoctis 3 months ago
26 years as first a vegetarian and then a vegan thanks to The Smiths. And it really doesn't matter if we were equipped as omnivores-our society has progressed to the point were we can easily be herbivores with no detrimental effects upon our health, wallet, or convenience. In the cavemen days we ate animals (and sometimes each other) because we had to in order to survive--that's no longer the case. The question now is not "Do we need to eat meat?", but rather, "Should we?" Killing is wrong.
ezrapaulcattelino 3 months ago
Meat is tasty as fuck!
anyway.. awesome song
meirha 3 months ago
grow!
HappyHippieHuddy 3 months ago
This song made me become vegetarian.... Now 24lbs lighter and increased muscle mass I have never looked back. Who said we should eat meat? Its not natural, normal or kind.
0Barnaby0 3 months ago
Love the song. Hate the self-righteousness of those who proclaim that being a vegetarian/vegan somehow makes them better than everyone else. The working conditions of those in the field that picked your carrots and plucked the oranges for your organic juice to go along with your gluten-free toast are subjected to abuses that most of you seem to conveniently forget for the sake of making a statement. Let people make their own choices. Sheesh!
london4120 3 months ago
Carrot juice is murder!
Regginyaga 3 months ago
I love morrissey so fucking much.
not to mention how much i love being a vegan.
natalie20136 3 months ago 2
I made the mistake of watching "grow it, kill it,eat it" on BBC 4 the other week - the most vile repugnant thing ive ever seen- utter pornography. They showed baby goat's being slaughtered under the guise of "Education". I'm still affected by it, Humans, the worst thing to ever happen to Planet Earth. Behead Ronald McDonald!!!!!!
johnbarry1965 4 months ago
Love the emotion of this song :) Stop arguing about whether he is right or not....just enjoy Morrisseys beautiful voice.
JJJJJJJJDDDDDD 4 months ago
I wonder if they ever found out who this soldier was? Anyone?
Taew2009 4 months ago
@Taew2009 It's an edited still from a documentary from the 60's about the Vietnam War. The soldier's helmet originally said "Make war not love".
MassiveMarket 4 months ago
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@MassiveMarket THNX!
Taew2009 4 months ago
meat what? I think this is one of the best songs ever to come out of the 80's.
Taew2009 4 months ago
i respect what his message is his and his lifestyle choice, but i believe the animals we choose to eat for substance are put here for the use of humans. There is a reason why cows are much more easily bred and domesticated then say...idk a tiger haha.
ShowsomeFury 4 months ago
@ShowsomeFury Oh dear, a christian.
bobbydylanio 4 months ago 2
@bobbydylanio i don't see a problem with being christian. And death for no reason? the death is for the substance of man, so i think its justified.
ShowsomeFury 4 months ago
@ShowsomeFury yeah, the human race would crumble without meat.
bobbydylanio 4 months ago
@bobbydylanio of course it wouldn't...don't be ridiculous, thats not what i was saying. However, why would you not eat meat? It tastes great and adds diversity to a diet. Perhaps i'm biased because my grandfather owns a farm and i've grown up helping him snap the necks on the chickens and such and seeing the animals killed for food seems just natural to me.
ShowsomeFury 4 months ago
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The9226192 4 months ago
@ShowsomeFury So then there, to you, a justification for cannibalism?
The9226192 4 months ago
@The9226192 *is
The9226192 4 months ago
@The9226192 of course not, you cannot compare animals and humans equally on that level. If you believe we should not kill animals for food then i respect that, i'm simply saying that i personally believe that we should use them for that purpose.
ShowsomeFury 4 months ago
@ShowsomeFury So animals are less important than humans?
The9226192 4 months ago
@The9226192 important? i'm not sure if humans could survive without animals in that sense but they certainly are not equal to humans.
ShowsomeFury 4 months ago
@ShowsomeFury what makes us better than animals?
The9226192 4 months ago
@The9226192 well if you think that a dog is equal to you, then by all means go ahead and think that. I'd say the biggest difference is the ability to distinguish right from wrong.
ShowsomeFury 4 months ago
@ShowsomeFury Humans have much less sense of right and wrong than humans. The Holocaust? Serial Killers? Drugs, Alcohol,Tobacco? Rapists? the list goes on and on
The9226192 4 months ago
@The9226192 of course there are exceptions, i never said humans were perfect. How are animals equal to humans?
ShowsomeFury 4 months ago
@The9226192 i'd say the good humans are capable far out ways the bad. there are exceptions of people not being able to distinguish, but most of those instances are people who choose to do bad. Like i said though, i believe most people choose to do good.
Humans are capable of so much more than animals. i don't believe that you actually believe humans and animals are purely equal.
ShowsomeFury 3 months ago
@The9226192 We are cleverer i.e nasty,vicious,immoral,corrupt,vile,corrupt and heartless.
johnbarry1965 4 months ago
We should make more vegan music videos
NasimATBird 4 months ago 12
I couldn't agree more with this song.
Proud to be vegetarian :)
leechslover 4 months ago
People can't accept their ignorance of eating meat and therefore refuse to see reason.
thomasalanx 4 months ago 5
I became vegetarian two years ago, because I was so disgusted to have the feeling to be eating a living being, this taste of corpse was no longer bearable. So, now i'm only eating fruits, vegetables and sometimes eggs and fish (1 day per month for proteins). And I'm great ! Animals should live as we do !
oOokawaiioOo 4 months ago 2
LIVE AND LET LIVE!!! PROUD TO BE VEGAN/PEACEFUL!!!
ZoldierrZzz 4 months ago 28
As a kid, I witnessed halal-slaughter, the way muslims prepare their meat in the name of god. They used a machete and cutted the lambs' throat so that it bled to death by cutting the main artery.. it was LOT OF BLOOD everywere.... And guess what? Im eating meat :) EVERY SINGLE DAY.. Its about choice of life.
ims2703 4 months ago
@ims2703
Yes, eating meat is a choice. A selfish one.
ZoldierrZzz 4 months ago 5
@ZoldierrZzz Trust me, people can do alot more selfish things than following its own nature ;)
ims2703 4 months ago
@ims2703
Eating meat is not "following its own nature" if you are a human being. It is a learned behavior, one that we, the environment and the animals don't need. Humans are herbivorous animals capable of being scavengers (not to be confused with omnivores). Only because we can eat dead corpses (human and nonhuman), smoke, do drugs, kill other humans, rape other humans, doesn't mean it's what we are supposed to do.
michaelbluejay . com/veg/natural.html
ZoldierrZzz 4 months ago 26
@ZoldierrZzz Eating meat IS FOLLOWING our own nature.. Out teeth are made for eating meat, if we would be made as vegetarians (geneticly) we would have teeth made for rumination. Also, if our bodies doesn't need meat, why does so many vegetarians have to take supplements for vitamins, sinc and iron? Our body needs these things for hormones, hair and other cell-productions. And dont tell me you can find the same amout of these things in a vegetable.. Its important, but doesnt contain enough stuff
ims2703 4 months ago
@ims2703
All of your beliefs will be answered if you read this:
michaelbluejay . com/veg/natural.html
ZoldierrZzz 4 months ago
@ims2703
They don't need to take supplements. Many are generally health conscious and seek a well rounded intake for the benefit. They don't even need to supplement them, it just takes a bit of know how. Thing is though, that people who eat meat are usually deficient in all kinds of ideal vitamin and mineral intake. It's got nothing to do with meat. There's nothing profoundly unique about meat that you can't get the nutrition without it. Meat eater or not, it is purely a lifestyle choice.
KadrickNinness 4 months ago
@ims2703 You miss the point! It's the scale,the violence, the lives that these animals are forced to live.It isn't about whether we are or are not meant to eat meat from a scientific perspective,it is about the whole trade, not the shape of our fucking teeth.And if you're going to talk nature how about this, name a carnivore without claws. name one with flat molars for chewing.You can't. Why?because they don't exist.Do you think you're tiny teeth could rip through your arm?You arent a carnivore.
bobbydylanio 4 months ago
@ZoldierrZzz Um. no. Humans are omnivores period. We are also predators. We share forward facing eyes and canines like lions, bears, hyenas, etc. The latter also sharing scavenger behaviors as well.
Unlike herbivores such as cows, giraffes, and horses, which neither have canines or forward facing vision.
Not to mention, that humans require a very special mix of vegetation in order make complete proteins to survive as vegan only. One would argue that the vegan life is the learned behavior
losghost 3 months ago
@losghost
This will answer your arguments:
michaelbluejay . com/veg/natural.html
ZoldierrZzz 3 months ago 3
@ZoldierrZzz I checked out your site. Pseudo scientific with opinion at best but didn't address the most damning question. Humans inability to live without complete proteins. Got a website for that too?
I know you can mix certain vegetation but the ability to do that is thanks to modern inventions. Go tell an Eskimo that he/she can live on nothing but indigenous plant life. The ability to be a vegan is very based on geography and technology.
losghost 3 months ago
@losghost
No pseudo science there, did you even read it? Look, I know there are many things that one can make up to try to justify meat eating, like: "tell an eskimo he can live on nothing but indigenous plant life". But these are not reasons to continue eating meat, those are reasons to improve their living conditions so that they can survive on plants. But one step at the time, the whole world won't change in one day.
Answer to your protein question:
vrg . org/nutrition/protein.htm
ZoldierrZzz 3 months ago 5
@ZoldierrZzz Yes, I did read it. He makes very specific comparisons to prove a point. He uses the examples not as a conclusion, but to support an argument. Nor does he mention what samples are considered. That's not science and it's intellectually dishonest.
I understand the mixes required to *make* complete proteins, but that's not what we were talking about. Humans cannot live on grass or leaves like a true herbivore they can do that on meat but work best on a balance.
losghost 3 months ago
@ZoldierrZzz Furthermore, some of the arguments on the site mention that humans don't use the entire animal and that we like them in neat packets in a supermarket.
That's truly telling of the level of understanding that went in to your website. If you have ever been to the rural south, or europe, or even the far east, perhaps even Nova Scotia or Scotland. It's a complete fabrication that statement.
New Guinea tribes eat meat with rarely meeting outside humans. Where did they *learn* that?
losghost 3 months ago
@ZoldierrZzz
It's ok to say that you feel vegan is a more humanitarian choice. It's ok to say that it's a possible choice or lifestyle. It's ok to say you think eating meat is wrong.
It's not ok to try and revise science to state that humans are born vegetarian. That is an extraordinary unsubstantiated claim.
losghost 3 months ago
@losghost
"It's ok to say that you feel vegan is a more humanitarian choice."
I not only feel it, I know it is. Thinking about it, even if I didn't give a shit about animals, it would still be immoral to support their execution. I don't care for some humans on this planet, but I would never support their execution to benefit others.
"It's not ok to try and revise science to state that humans are born vegetarian."
Physiologically we resemble herbivores more than omnivores, a scientific fact.
ZoldierrZzz 3 months ago 3
@ZoldierrZzz "Physiologically we resemble herbivores more than omnivores, a scientific fact."
Another untruth and not even close to fact.
We produce hydrochloric acid in our stomach, no herbivore does that. Our intestines are not as long, we have 1 stomach, we do not chew cud. Our pancreas produces a full range of enzymes for digesting a range of foods. Low synthesis rate of taurine and DHA and fossils show dependance on animal proteins 2.5 million years ago.
losghost 3 months ago
@losghost
This comment proves you didn't read the study I gave you.
ZoldierrZzz 3 months ago
@ZoldierrZzz Why don't you argue yourself instead of pointing to a website? Just because I didn't drink the coolaid from your article does not mean I didn't read it.
How about addressing the points I posted instead of being dodgy?
losghost 3 months ago
@losghost
Because all of your points are pointless. Just ignorant excuses to continue barbarism. This is all that matters: If we can avoid killing, then it's our moral obligation to do so. Humans don't need meat which means we don't need to kill animals. Humans, like other primates, can live perfectly healthy on a plant-based diet. We should all be working together to make it possible for everyone to have this privilege. Even if it won't happen in a day.
ZoldierrZzz 3 months ago
@ZoldierrZzz Moral obligation? Your point was that humans are natural vegans. My responses are directly in line with that assertion. Don't skirt the issue by trying to change the topic.
Humans are omnivores. That is a scientific fact. That is what they are classified as and for good reasons as I have shown. We have a history of meat consumption up to 2.5 million years ago.
Also, I've known vegans that have died to heart failure. I do not share your belief it is healthier.
losghost 3 months ago
@losghost
"Your point was that humans are natural vegans. "
If we are or aren't is irrelevant to the question: "should we continue to eat meat?"
"Humans are omnivores. That is a scientific fact."
I don't agree, but again, it's irrelevant. We are still evolving you know.
"Also, I've known vegans that have died to heart failure. I do not share your belief it is healthier"
Eating a vegan diet doesn't mean you are immortal. Eating a diet with meat doesn't mean you will automatically be unhealthy.
ZoldierrZzz 3 months ago 7
@ZoldierrZzz If we are or are not vegans is central to the entire discussion we've been having thus far.
So far you implied humans eat meat as a learned behavior, are scavengers (not to be confused with omnivores), and that you lumped in eating meat with doing drugs, drinking, murder, and rape.
The counter to that is that it's natural and in direct line with our nature and I think that your position is based on an ideal as opposed to a reality.
losghost 3 months ago
@losghost
That discussion is pointless. You won't accept the fact that we are herbivorous animals because we live in such a religious society where everyone accepts what they've been learned to do or believe without questioning it. "We are omnivores, we need meat because of protein, we need breastmilk from cows to get calcium" etc etc. Humans grow up with carnism and then they defend it, because that's what they've learned. I'm telling you, the only thing that matters is where we go from now.
ZoldierrZzz 3 months ago
@ZoldierrZzz First off, I'm a militant atheist and I don't accept arguments from authority, including yours.
I have been educated to understand the mechanics behind nutrition. We need complete proteins or we die. That is a simple fact.
I have friends that are vegans. It's clear to me that their teeth and hair appear to be not very healthy. One, an ex marine who ran 10 miles a day dropped dead on a run from heart failure. I am convinced it was due to his lack of complete proteins in his diet.
losghost 3 months ago
@losghost
Realizing that religion is bullshit doesn't make you ethical, reasonable or civilized. It requires something more, like morality, compassion and kindness. And you can get complete proteins in a vegan diet, educate yourself. Your observation of your "friends" is irrelevant. There are healthy vegan athletes.
ZoldierrZzz 3 months ago
@losghost Their is actually more protein in plants than and its better for you. There has been research done into the Vegan diet and cancer. High meat eating countries have higher rates of cancer than countries with relatively low meat consumption. Ive been vegetarian for two years and Im perfectly healthy, not about to die from lack of protein.
skiparoundincircles 3 months ago
@skiparoundincircles I never said there were not enough protein in plants, just that plants do not have complete proteins. This was a discussion in response to someone making a defacto statement that humans are natural born vegans. I was disputing that statement.
losghost 3 months ago
@losghost Sorry! I was aiming at the other guy and clicked the wrong reply button :/ My bad
skiparoundincircles 3 months ago
@ZoldierrZzz
Erm, humans DO need meat! We have to have a healthy intake of vitamin 12 or we die. FACT, Not opinion. No moral issue, if we do not consume b12 we die.
littlewhitewhore 2 months ago
@littlewhitewhore
Thanks to science, we can take vitamin b12 supplement. But if it wasn't for science in the first place, we wouldn't need supplement..
ZoldierrZzz 2 months ago
@ZoldierrZzz haha ha ha. I genuinely like running across you tubers like yourself. they are several of you. nice comments.
NewWorldRob 3 months ago