The Philosophy of Liberty Self Ownership Freedom

[LibertasXI]

Hmm, i have to thank you for mentioning Murray Rothbard by the way. I took you up on it, and so far i've been having an interesting read! I find myself in agreement with a lot of things he had to say, especially when it comes to economics.

[LibertasXI]

Also, here are a few other definitions of the word system: 1 A social, economic, or political organizational form. 2 A condition of harmonious, orderly interaction. 3 The prevailing social order; the establishment. A system is not necessarily made out of steel, paper or plastic alone.

[LibertasXI]

Basically, we're approaching this subject from two completely different perspectives. And then we haven't even spoken about the inefficiency of human language to transfer ideas... ugh. Anyway, peace dude.

[TheGUARDIANMEDIC]

Very direct and to the point... I don't think anyone could even argue against it.

[silkander]

Great video! Simplistic, but in a good way so that it illustrates libertarianism so clearly. After watching this video I feel like there is a growing wound in my heart that is getting more painful as the governments slowly infringes upon others' and my liberty.

Ron Paul 2012!

[kamikazee55]

@silkander ??? This video clearly says that statism is immoral. You think Ron Paul is not part of the state?

[kamikazee55]

@LibertasXI No. Even a very nice, small state is immoral. You can't say in principle that force is moral. Just as if you try to solve math problems while holding that 2+2=5, you can't say that using force is moral for some individuals, and immoral for others. Premises must be correct. Statism is based on an illegitimate premise. Why do you think we get the problems we do?

[LibertasXI]

@kamikazee55 I don't care about morality, i care about practicallities. Anarchism might work within small farming communities, but it will have devestating effects when applied to large populations. What good will your morality do, when there are plenty of people with absolutely NO morals at all. In order to come to it's full potential, mankind needs freedom above all else... this is not some right magically bestowed upon us by nature, it is a situation that we create.

[LibertasXI]

@LibertasXI Thus we need a limited form of government (in which the citizens are properly represented) that maintains the conditions needed for the people to be free. You see, it's all about the ROLE of government and the underlying principles that form it. We are experiencing all these problems because government began playing a different role. It has lost track of its founding principles.

[kamikazee55]

@LibertasXI Then what exactly are your 'principles' based on if not morality? Practicality is not a principle. Practicality is totally subjective. Practicality is not an objective standard.

You then go on to say that we need government so that we can have freedom. This is entirely illogical. Government is not freedom. You can't have freedom with government. Once a government is instituted there is no longer freedom. You are trying to argue a contradiction.

[LibertasXI]

@kamikazee55 Have i not just said that it's based on the idea that mankind needs freedom? No disrespect friend, but you are playing a game of meaningless semantics. For example: You state that any form of government would infringe upon your freedom, and from a logical point of view you're right ofc; there would be some things you could NOT do. But from a practical point of view- the applied absence of government would mean that there would be NOTHING you could not do, including...

[LibertasXI]

@LibertasXI rape, murder, heft, etc, etc. And because all such systems are ultimately created to serve men, the latter rules out the first because conditions would be worse. It would be destroying the very reason of its existence.So according to my view, it all comes down to choosing the best of all possibilities. Which is in my opinion a form of government that the U.S. Constitution dictates. Tho things are deteriorating very rapidly now, the USA is still the freeest nation on Earth

[kamikazee55]

@LibertasXI The government steals, rapes, and murders on a massive scale. The government is not a solution to these problems. You are conceptualizing the entire world. There is no government. There are buildings, guns, cars, pieces of paper, and individuals. There is no government. What you are advocating is applying one set of moral rules to one group, and a different set to the rest.

I would suggest you look up Rothbard. 'God did it' is not an answer. 'Give guns to people' is not an answer.

[LibertasXI]

@kamikazee55 I'm not conceptualizing the entire world, you are conceptualizing government based on rigid predispositions. Government is a system willed into existence by mutual agreement of individuals... it is dynamic and changeable. Just like those cars, guns, buildings and pieces of paper. All has been brought forth by the individual.

[kamikazee55]

@LibertasXI Please explain what a 'system' is.

[LibertasXI]

@kamikazee55 Well, depending on the circumstances a system can be anything really. According to the dictionary, a system might be described as: "A group of interacting, interrelated, or interdependent elements forming a complex whole."

[kamikazee55]

@LibertasXI So a system is in fact a concept. Since you can find individual parts, but not a 'system' in reality. Now the question is then do systems have authority? No they do not. A system cannot have authority because it does not exist.

Explain to me where the government gets its authority..

[LibertasXI]

@kamikazee55 It boggles the mind how you can draw such a stupid conclusion... a system is a concept that doesn't really exist, seriously? Obviously. If something has individual parts the sum of its parts would form the whole... such as a car, a building and yes, a government. What part of "depending on the sircumstances" don't you understand? Heck, you're even sitting behind a system that could be given authorities right now! I've allready awnsered your question three times!