@ComicBookSyndicate ever since the movie came out people were litterally freaking out over it and the same exact thing happened with the dark knights joker. Once there is a movie people swarm to source material and then think they know everything about it.. it's really sad. anyways, I think watchmen is over rated because;
1) the theme of this book is "Who watches the watchmen?" and it doesnt get much further on that topic.. just thinking about that conjures up more than the book presents..
2) alan moore shouldnt be writing Comic books.. he doesnt really seem to grasp that he works in a visual medium and that makes this a tedious read for all the panels are filled so many wrd baloons it blocks out the drawings. dont take me wrong.. i like the art and especially the color pallette.
3)overall its just a heavy handed book that takes itself too seriously (much like Moore himself) and spells out most of its conclusions..
and dont think i dont like it because its from 87..
@joker9494949494 How do you account for Dr. Manhattan's soliloquy on Mars, using the dozens of visual metaphors to tell the story, connect characters, and put his plight in the context of both history and philosophy? Its not as dazzling as Jack Kirby or as pretty as John Romita, but doesn't its meaning run much deeper?
... and Dark Knight Returns in 86. DKR took superheroes seriously before moore tried the idea.. to me I perfer Miller over Moore any day. I do own Watchmen and V for Vendetta but i own a lot more Miller books like Sin City 1-7, Ronin, DKR.. and on top of that id perfer McFarlane over Moore. Spawn outran Watchmen or V for me. much more interesting and visually striking (what comics are for). Art before Story. when you pick up a comic do you read a synopsis or skim pages for artwork to catch you?
@joker9494949494 Alan Moore wrote MarvelMan in 1982 for Warrior Magazine. That's the beginning of the modern age, imo.
I think Miller's work has nosedived since Batman: Year One. I don't watch movies to see nice cinematography, and I don't read comics for pretty picturs. The images are there to tell that story! This is why the very best graphic novels utilize more abstract, cartoony art. Story is first.
Commissioner Gordon, you are dead wrong. Watchmen is very relevant. Do you think people are no longer afraid? Maybe not of the Russians but there is fear.
I was a first time reader last year (thanks Mike-El)and it did not overwhelm me in a bad way at all. This story is not for children. It's for thoughtful, mature people.
And I wholeheartedly agree with having this in every hotel room.
I can't say that I liked everything about Watchmen, but it certainly made me think, which I hope was the point.
I pray that Hollywood doesn't f--k up the ending. Until the movie comes out, I can hold out some measure of hope that they will do the right thing, as far as that goes.
I'm not so much worried about the ending as I am about the level of talent of the creators. Like I said: X2, Dawn of the Dead and Scorpion King don't suggest writers that are really up to the task.
Actually, I just checked IMDB, and I didn't realize the experience of the screenwriters on Watchmen.
Alex Tse has ONE previous TV writing credit, and David Hayter wrote Lost in Oz, X-men, X2 and Scorpion King.
It appears that Hollywood thinks writing a few mediocre action flicks is qualification enough to write the most critically acclaimed graphic novel of all time. I didn't realize they were so desperate for writers.
I have to somewhat agree with john plantus (jim gordon). I understand how deep Watchmen is but I have a feeling that a lot of the younger readers won't comprehend the importance of it. However, I think the art is classic and fits perfectly with the story. As for the movie, its going to make a lot of money but I find it hard to believe that the studio will be brave enough to use the same exact ending as the book. I hope I'm wrong on this but y'know HOLLYWOOD.
I first read Miracleman (pre-Watchmen) when I was 13. Maybe I didn't appreciate the 'importance' of it, but it was certainly good enough to make me want to toss out the rest of my comics.
Beyond anything, Watchmen is a very entertaining story.
Flaming Watchmen?!? Wow! Wellto each their own, but personally I think its brilliant. Granted Im notoriously bias toward comics, Ive always pitied them for being viewed as immature dribble in the eyes of the ignorant, and Watchmens one of those books that proves that, tights and capes or not, the genre can be intelligent, psychological, and respectable.
I loved the costumes! And especially how the one guy stayed in character the entire time, LOL :)
I haven't read Watchmen, but after reading some of the comments (and seeing the show) maybe I should? I don't think I've ever heard of people talk about a comic book that way.
I think Maxsant74's post sums up everything I feel about Watchmen. Its not just 'better than the others', it is a work of such massive scope and quality, that I think any reader who doesn't come away with a nearly religious experience should give it another read.
Oh and one more thing, if the historical mark where the story was written and takes place is such a bad thing, then that would make the works of Dickens, Twain, Conrad, Steinbeck or any movie that reflects a ceirtain period as worthless. I wouldn't thin that to be a true statement.
It is the best in comic book art, it is unapologetic about being a comic book, not wanting to be a prose novel or a future treatement for a motion picture. Regardless if it is becoming one. It is so influential, that to this day, each writer and artist out there are always trying to write their 'watchmen'story. Peace, Mike and the rest of the Comic Book Syndicate Crew!! Love the show.
The use of exposition, flashbacks and other storytelling devices is unparallel, all the rules are in there and all of those rules are deliciously broken. Watchmen is comic books greates achievement, in style, in execution and yes, it has a deep emotional value, that as you grow older, it becomes more paramount and moving. The art is monumental, even if the modern fanboy find the use of large caption boxes as fastidious.
Dave Gibbons art is able to translate and project all the visual information needed for the story to have impact. Those Bazooka Joe's panels are far more intricate and creative that they may appear to be to the casual reader. They are able to relate the story in time, where the mind fills in the gaps of where the movement should go.
But like Frank Miller stated, and I am paraphrasing here, he said that he began wanting to make comics that looked like movies and as time progressed he realized that he needed to create comics that looked, and evolved comics in its own pace.
For now, the main use of visual, sequential storytelling is akin to that of the movies, especially the blockbusters films. Granted, I do like that style, probably best introduced by the early Frank Miller work, exposed by the scripts from Warren Ellis and finally over produced by Mark Millar.
It is the epitome of comic book as an art form, unapologetic for being what it is. It is very interesting that the guest of the show said that some of Moore's description or the exposition was damaging to the overall enjoyment of the art and the plot. I believe its quite the opposite. Like anything in life, comic book art is in the midst of a pendulum swing.
The complexity of psychological exploration of the characters in tune with a deep understanding of the historical chronology that shapes the events that bring an impulse to the plot line is virtually flawless. Alan Moore is not verbose, like you stated Mike, each word in the story is important, valuable and needed. There is nothing superfluous about the script. It is the perfect blending of literature and visual art.
Watchmen=Overated
joker9494949494 5 months ago
@joker9494949494 Please expand on that. We look forward to hearing your analysis of Watchmen.
ComicBookSyndicate 5 months ago
@ComicBookSyndicate ever since the movie came out people were litterally freaking out over it and the same exact thing happened with the dark knights joker. Once there is a movie people swarm to source material and then think they know everything about it.. it's really sad. anyways, I think watchmen is over rated because;
1) the theme of this book is "Who watches the watchmen?" and it doesnt get much further on that topic.. just thinking about that conjures up more than the book presents..
joker9494949494 5 months ago
@joker9494949494 What people? I read it in 1990.
ComicBookSyndicate 5 months ago
2) alan moore shouldnt be writing Comic books.. he doesnt really seem to grasp that he works in a visual medium and that makes this a tedious read for all the panels are filled so many wrd baloons it blocks out the drawings. dont take me wrong.. i like the art and especially the color pallette.
3)overall its just a heavy handed book that takes itself too seriously (much like Moore himself) and spells out most of its conclusions..
and dont think i dont like it because its from 87..
joker9494949494 5 months ago
@joker9494949494 How do you account for Dr. Manhattan's soliloquy on Mars, using the dozens of visual metaphors to tell the story, connect characters, and put his plight in the context of both history and philosophy? Its not as dazzling as Jack Kirby or as pretty as John Romita, but doesn't its meaning run much deeper?
ComicBookSyndicate 5 months ago
... and Dark Knight Returns in 86. DKR took superheroes seriously before moore tried the idea.. to me I perfer Miller over Moore any day. I do own Watchmen and V for Vendetta but i own a lot more Miller books like Sin City 1-7, Ronin, DKR.. and on top of that id perfer McFarlane over Moore. Spawn outran Watchmen or V for me. much more interesting and visually striking (what comics are for). Art before Story. when you pick up a comic do you read a synopsis or skim pages for artwork to catch you?
joker9494949494 5 months ago
@joker9494949494 Alan Moore wrote MarvelMan in 1982 for Warrior Magazine. That's the beginning of the modern age, imo.
I think Miller's work has nosedived since Batman: Year One. I don't watch movies to see nice cinematography, and I don't read comics for pretty picturs. The images are there to tell that story! This is why the very best graphic novels utilize more abstract, cartoony art. Story is first.
Looks like we have to agree to disagree.
ComicBookSyndicate 5 months ago
@joker9494949494 When picking up a comic, I don't look at the art or read a synopsis. I read the credits on the front, and choose by writer!
ComicBookSyndicate 5 months ago
Fuck this. Fucking imbecile!
DanielBoa 1 year ago
how dare he liken watchmen to civil war
KroliggBloodhoof 1 year ago
Commissioner Gordon, you are dead wrong. Watchmen is very relevant. Do you think people are no longer afraid? Maybe not of the Russians but there is fear.
I was a first time reader last year (thanks Mike-El)and it did not overwhelm me in a bad way at all. This story is not for children. It's for thoughtful, mature people.
And I wholeheartedly agree with having this in every hotel room.
draculassweetie 3 years ago
Did everybody see the new watchmen trailer??...there seems to be a lot of unnecessary slow motion. Hopefully that was just for the trailer.
kid1on1 3 years ago
Zack Snyder said recently that sometimes in the film he just cuts to long slow motion fight scenes because "at heart I'm an action geek".
*whew* Sounds like we're in safe hands!
coydog0 3 years ago
Marvel Civil War has more future appeal? As soon as I heard that statement any validity to his argument was lost.
Phillies64 3 years ago
I can't say that I liked everything about Watchmen, but it certainly made me think, which I hope was the point.
I pray that Hollywood doesn't f--k up the ending. Until the movie comes out, I can hold out some measure of hope that they will do the right thing, as far as that goes.
kim624 3 years ago
I heard they changed the ending entirely. Sorry, Kim.
freethegeeks 3 years ago
I'm not so much worried about the ending as I am about the level of talent of the creators. Like I said: X2, Dawn of the Dead and Scorpion King don't suggest writers that are really up to the task.
coydog0 3 years ago
I actually liked the Dawn of the Dead remake, but it really wasn't the most original thing ever written so I have to agree.
Now I'm wondering if I should even bother since I'll probably walk out mad.
kim624 3 years ago
great show!! I love the debates.... hows shawn doing??
listo65 3 years ago
Actually, I just checked IMDB, and I didn't realize the experience of the screenwriters on Watchmen.
Alex Tse has ONE previous TV writing credit, and David Hayter wrote Lost in Oz, X-men, X2 and Scorpion King.
It appears that Hollywood thinks writing a few mediocre action flicks is qualification enough to write the most critically acclaimed graphic novel of all time. I didn't realize they were so desperate for writers.
coydog0 3 years ago
David Hayter 'rules.' Solid Snake can write anything he damned well wants.
Onslaughttitude 3 years ago
I have to somewhat agree with john plantus (jim gordon). I understand how deep Watchmen is but I have a feeling that a lot of the younger readers won't comprehend the importance of it. However, I think the art is classic and fits perfectly with the story. As for the movie, its going to make a lot of money but I find it hard to believe that the studio will be brave enough to use the same exact ending as the book. I hope I'm wrong on this but y'know HOLLYWOOD.
kid1on1 3 years ago
I first read Miracleman (pre-Watchmen) when I was 13. Maybe I didn't appreciate the 'importance' of it, but it was certainly good enough to make me want to toss out the rest of my comics.
Beyond anything, Watchmen is a very entertaining story.
coydog0 3 years ago
Omgxxorz, teh Syndicate rocks me! ^.^
Warewulf 3 years ago 2
Flaming Watchmen?!? Wow! Wellto each their own, but personally I think its brilliant. Granted Im notoriously bias toward comics, Ive always pitied them for being viewed as immature dribble in the eyes of the ignorant, and Watchmens one of those books that proves that, tights and capes or not, the genre can be intelligent, psychological, and respectable.
MaxPhactor21 3 years ago
Bazooka Joe comics hehe.
I loved the costumes! And especially how the one guy stayed in character the entire time, LOL :)
I haven't read Watchmen, but after reading some of the comments (and seeing the show) maybe I should? I don't think I've ever heard of people talk about a comic book that way.
GremlinGirl 3 years ago
I think Maxsant74's post sums up everything I feel about Watchmen. Its not just 'better than the others', it is a work of such massive scope and quality, that I think any reader who doesn't come away with a nearly religious experience should give it another read.
coydog0 3 years ago
Oh and one more thing, if the historical mark where the story was written and takes place is such a bad thing, then that would make the works of Dickens, Twain, Conrad, Steinbeck or any movie that reflects a ceirtain period as worthless. I wouldn't thin that to be a true statement.
maxsant74 3 years ago
It is the best in comic book art, it is unapologetic about being a comic book, not wanting to be a prose novel or a future treatement for a motion picture. Regardless if it is becoming one. It is so influential, that to this day, each writer and artist out there are always trying to write their 'watchmen'story. Peace, Mike and the rest of the Comic Book Syndicate Crew!! Love the show.
maxsant74 3 years ago
The use of exposition, flashbacks and other storytelling devices is unparallel, all the rules are in there and all of those rules are deliciously broken. Watchmen is comic books greates achievement, in style, in execution and yes, it has a deep emotional value, that as you grow older, it becomes more paramount and moving. The art is monumental, even if the modern fanboy find the use of large caption boxes as fastidious.
maxsant74 3 years ago
Dave Gibbons art is able to translate and project all the visual information needed for the story to have impact. Those Bazooka Joe's panels are far more intricate and creative that they may appear to be to the casual reader. They are able to relate the story in time, where the mind fills in the gaps of where the movement should go.
maxsant74 3 years ago
But like Frank Miller stated, and I am paraphrasing here, he said that he began wanting to make comics that looked like movies and as time progressed he realized that he needed to create comics that looked, and evolved comics in its own pace.
maxsant74 3 years ago
For now, the main use of visual, sequential storytelling is akin to that of the movies, especially the blockbusters films. Granted, I do like that style, probably best introduced by the early Frank Miller work, exposed by the scripts from Warren Ellis and finally over produced by Mark Millar.
maxsant74 3 years ago
It is the epitome of comic book as an art form, unapologetic for being what it is. It is very interesting that the guest of the show said that some of Moore's description or the exposition was damaging to the overall enjoyment of the art and the plot. I believe its quite the opposite. Like anything in life, comic book art is in the midst of a pendulum swing.
maxsant74 3 years ago
The complexity of psychological exploration of the characters in tune with a deep understanding of the historical chronology that shapes the events that bring an impulse to the plot line is virtually flawless. Alan Moore is not verbose, like you stated Mike, each word in the story is important, valuable and needed. There is nothing superfluous about the script. It is the perfect blending of literature and visual art.
maxsant74 3 years ago
I read Watchmen when I was fifteen years old, and again in my mid twenties. It is by far, the best comic book produced, ever.
maxsant74 3 years ago
yep, still the greatest
maxsant74 3 years ago
But what about the 'superfluous' narration and dialogue?
coydog0 3 years ago