Religion is like a pill, if swallowed it can heal many ailments, but if chewed, it will cause the person to vomit, this is a good reason for having the scripture 1 Thess 5:21, "prove all things" !,, And yes brain washing is a big part of religion, the Mormon leaders are masonic experts at it !
The only problem I see in this footage is that the judge didn't order for the father to be kicked in the nuts and to be told to stick his religion you-know-where. Had both parents agreed to the baptism, she still should try to stop it. Religion is just a form of brainwashing, and brainwashing works best when you start from a young age. This judge seems to know this fact to some extent. Good on her.
Oh come on! This news station is SO stupid! They are twisting her words! At 2:38 they misquote the judge to say "right" when she plainly says "ability" which is a completely different premise her conclusion. The Judge isn't talking about the rights of parents and of baptismal, she is talking about the rights of the custodial parent and the abilities of 8 year olds. So ridiculous!!!
You know, she goes on and on about how the child is too young to make that decision and how she should wait till she is older and on and on but it is okay with a yes from both parents? Doesn't that kill the point of being too young?
I cant believe that she has the right to determine this. Her job isnt to push her opinions on people and I think she shouldnt stuck her nose in it. It should be left to the parent who has legal custody to decided ultamitley. I think the parents should be adults and work this out, may be even come to the conclusion to have her wait untill she says she wants to be baptised. Which ever parent thought to bring the juge in to this is petty and selfish and needs a swift kick.
Let's not change anything in this scenario, except what if the church the mom was trying to babtise her to was the "Church of Satan"? I bet you most opinions would be much different.
This judge is correct though, the kid's too young to agree to anything like this.
Religion and Drugs work the same way. Hook them while they're young, and they'll be customers for life. Barring any scandals, mind you.
Both parents should have input on this. Also, if there's any child support involved, it should end as soon as full decision making is given to just one parent.
This bothers me a great deal in that church and state are supposed to be separate....how can this judge rule on a religious matter? I don't have a problem with her personal feelings but can't believe that it is lawful for her to hand down an order on a religious decision.
For a judge to order that the child cannot be baptized is just as outrageous and unconstitutional as it would be if she ordered that the child had to be baptized. How arrogant of the judiciary to believe that no dispute is outside their authority to arbitrate.
Church HAS NO AUTHORITY. Where do you get that malarkey? They only have the authority the individual grants to them. The mother, rightly, granted them NONE! 18 is the age of legal responsibility, and since the decision to side with a church could be a life altering decision, 18 is best. Was the decision by Lewis appealed? Then it is a moot point.
The judge usurps the role of Church and has crossed the line into the Erastian Heresy. She has no authority to determine the age of Baptism for a child when that authority solely rests with the Church.
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The judge is a human being.... a bitch to go on and on over her "personal" views; but in the end I would have to agree that since there is disagreement between parents, that 8 is too young. Even in a convert household, I think 8 is too young; but in a solid, 2-parent family or family all in agreement and continues to raise the child in the same religion, then 8 is certainly fine. Divorce or conversion = should be 12. My opinion.
That is IMPOSSIBLE, jal3961. As long as a church is a corporation the Government CAN interfere. A "free church" (a NON-corporate church) has no standing in a court of law because of the separation clause, and they remain under Constitutional jurisdiction. Similar to a foreign govt establishing an embassy here--our laws do not apply to them.
covie. Once they (a church) agreed to abide ALL laws by becoming a 501c3 Corporate Church they gave up ANY right to the "higher law", and MUST abide the laws of men, AS THEY AGREED TO DO! The ONLY ones that are free to act according to this "higher law" are UN-INCORPORATED churches.
Quite true. This is why legally recognized marriages are not marriages before God.
By the power vested in me by the state of New York... this is what you year. This person cannot perform a legal marriage unless he says this. He cannot mention God in this sentence.
I find it disturbing when people say things like this. The scriptures are the higher law of the land? I think not. Have you ever entertained the possibility that most atheists live a good honest life without the 'Scriptures' Have a little faith in your fellow man. Pun most assuredly intended.
She said NOTHING against baptism - she is against imposing it on someone before they are ready to make an *informed* decision. I'll be a catholic all my life because I've been baptised as a baby. I'm not practising, but I wish I had had the choice. Ask some circumcised men about the age of consent and the right to choose...
Being baptized a Catholic does NOT mean you must remain a Catholic all your life. If you prefer another religion, then go for it. God doesn't care what religion you practice. All he expects is that you live a good, moral life. And this comment comes from a practicing Catholic who agrees and disagrees with her church all the time. But I still like Mass, I still like Communion and I find that my hour at church is my real time to listen and talk with God.
what in hell does that mean? Are you referring to the 500 year reign of terror of the inquisitions throughout Europe, established, funded and operated by the Vatican? Or do you mean the puritan/quakers who were paranoid about witchcraft?
both. And the keep in mind a minester is also the word for a governmental leaders. So I mean coruption everywere. Church, State, buisness, schools, you name it.
that was a fair and just ruling, although too personal, it was fair. If both parents agreed on religion, then it would have been okay. Since they disagree, the child needs to be more mature because it is no longer just a baptism, but also a struggle between the wishes of 2 parents with the kid in the middle. Surely you can see that.
Does anyone realize that the mother didn't want the girl to be baptized? It's not about church and state it's about refing a divorce hearing. Anyone whos been through a divorce knows that they are ugly and filled with hate or easer than getting married.
The child has a father too. Does his input not matter? The fact is that judge Lewis is nothing more than a bitter apostate ex-mormon who deserved to be voted out of office. She should be banned from ever working in any capicity in the legal profession!
yes his input matters. However, this is a person we are talking about, not a possesion. If the man wants the coin collection that he collected and the woman didn't give a flying flip about then he should get it. This is a major step in someones spirtuality. A baptizm shouldn't be about getting one up on an ex-wife. It should be about connecting with heavingly father.
it sounds to me like you view this as a religious issue more than a legal issue. As you know, every religion is welcome in utah. However, once you start forcing your religious doctrine on another religion, i.e mormons, you've crossed a line that should never be crossed.
Leave mormons alone to practice their religion how they see fit; don't try dening mormons their constitional rights no matter how weird their beliefs seem to be to you.
How often do liberals get upset about religion "forced" onto them? Yet this judge tried to DENY relious rights to a child! Liberals are hypocrits. Its okay for them to force their beliefs onto religious people, yet no one had better even thing of parcticing their relion, even within their own families! I'm glad shes no longer a judge. I hope she never works in the legal profeesion for the rest of her life!
it is all about th elaw and not personal opinion and th einability to resolve what happened to her personally. I was glad to vote her out. Sadly, there are a few more loser judges here in SL County that are as baised as the deposed Queen Lewis.
I witnessed the fury of her Highness in a doctors office, screaming at the staff about a bill, reminding the ENTIRE waiting room that "she is a judge & demands to be treated like a judge"
Judge Lewis has received high praise as a judge who genuinely cares about the people before her in court. So it was with great regret that I voted against her today because I think a judge should be smart enough to render a decision while keeping non-legal issues out of it. This was particularly evident in the case involving the brother of the deer hunter. I hope she finds a job in Utah's legal system that capitalizes on her strengths.
High praise for caring? How can a judge be unbiased when she "cares" too much. A judges position you not be used to make a political stand and make a proclomation of personal views. judges should keep their focus on law books and quit trying to make some political or personal statement. It makes them all look bad. Judge Lewis is such a disgrace!!!!
Has this lunatic ever heard of freedom of religion and the separation of church and state. She has just established that the state (as she is representing it) is passing judgement on what is proper excercise of religion. PROHIBITING baptism? If whe were on the bench here, she would have been run out of town after being tarred and feathered. I think "her Honor" slept through several courses in constitutional law and is legislating from the bench. Vote this dumb blonde out of office!
Idiot Judges. Jeezzz! First they take away our Plural Marriage then they presume that 8 year olds can't make adult decisions. They'll probably determine that a 14 year old isn't fit to make a decision about marrying Warren Jeffs. HUMPFHH!! Pompous Judges!!
The judge is about as smart as a rock. she has two brain cells one is lost and the other is looking for it. She is just plain dumb. 8 is the age for accoutibility and the judge should have no say in the childs religious issues it is between the parent and the child to decide. i thought that was what the seperation of church and state was!!
Up to the parent and child to decide? How exactly does an 8 year old make such a big decision? There's no soul-searching, contemplation, or discussion. A child is incapable of knowing the gravity of such a ritual.
But, the judge is off base. I agree that at the very least the parents should be in agreement about it, but the judge started her own diatribe. She may be doing the right thing for the child, but she stepped over the line when she started telling the parents how to parent their child.
If I was to teach my 8 year old child that it was right to steal, then it would be my crime, not the child's. A child of 8 is not old enough to make adult decisions, such as whether they'll be religious. The judge is not commenting on the validity of religion, but rather the rights of a child and the age at which that child can make life-changing decisions. If she deems it an abuse for the mother to baptise the child in this instance, then she does have jurisdiction over that.
While you may agree with Judge Lewis on the issue, the big deal with her is she did what she did not because it was best for the child, but because she views herself as a victim and is using her own bias to make decisions to right what she percieves as wrongs in he own past.
BOY!!! rbryner. The Spirit of the HOLY GHOST is working through you today!! I'm just glad there are people like you out there in this cruel ol world to right every wrong and see that justice is done. A mere mortal would never have picked up on Lewis' deep psychocological scar if you hadn't pointed it out. Thanks!!
Judge Lewis is famous for getting emotional on the stand. She is famous for bringing her own issues in. It's not a liberal/conservative issue- it's an issue of being slightly crazy.
I don't think the judge did make her decision based purely on her own experience. I believe it's fairly obvious that a child of that age is too young to choose to be religious, and therefore forcing baptism upon them is not right. The judge was simply pointing out how damaging that abuse can be (by referring to her own experience). Even if she hadn't been baptised against her will herself, I think she still would've ruled this way due to her belief that it is wrong to do that to children.
Religion is like a pill, if swallowed it can heal many ailments, but if chewed, it will cause the person to vomit, this is a good reason for having the scripture 1 Thess 5:21, "prove all things" !,, And yes brain washing is a big part of religion, the Mormon leaders are masonic experts at it !
freetube1to1 2 years ago
The only problem I see in this footage is that the judge didn't order for the father to be kicked in the nuts and to be told to stick his religion you-know-where. Had both parents agreed to the baptism, she still should try to stop it. Religion is just a form of brainwashing, and brainwashing works best when you start from a young age. This judge seems to know this fact to some extent. Good on her.
johndoe43210 2 years ago 2
Oh come on! This news station is SO stupid! They are twisting her words! At 2:38 they misquote the judge to say "right" when she plainly says "ability" which is a completely different premise her conclusion. The Judge isn't talking about the rights of parents and of baptismal, she is talking about the rights of the custodial parent and the abilities of 8 year olds. So ridiculous!!!
salgod 2 years ago
I wonder if this bone-head judge would allow Catholic, Presbyterian, Episcopal, etc. parents to baptize their newborns. What a bigot!
ickiepoo 3 years ago
Good for her. Standing up to child indoctrination. So what?
americansinformed 3 years ago 3
You know, she goes on and on about how the child is too young to make that decision and how she should wait till she is older and on and on but it is okay with a yes from both parents? Doesn't that kill the point of being too young?
I wonder if the judge was raised LDS.
EverASurprise 3 years ago
If children have no sins until they are eight years old, why are they baptized at age eight to wash away non-existent sins? (See Moroni 8:8)
johnyjamie 3 years ago
I cant believe that she has the right to determine this. Her job isnt to push her opinions on people and I think she shouldnt stuck her nose in it. It should be left to the parent who has legal custody to decided ultamitley. I think the parents should be adults and work this out, may be even come to the conclusion to have her wait untill she says she wants to be baptised. Which ever parent thought to bring the juge in to this is petty and selfish and needs a swift kick.
pillowheadkiss 3 years ago
Let's not change anything in this scenario, except what if the church the mom was trying to babtise her to was the "Church of Satan"? I bet you most opinions would be much different.
CrockettVice21 3 years ago
Very ignorant woman and she definetely spoke out of place.
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wilby1414 3 years ago
This judge is correct though, the kid's too young to agree to anything like this.
Religion and Drugs work the same way. Hook them while they're young, and they'll be customers for life. Barring any scandals, mind you.
Both parents should have input on this. Also, if there's any child support involved, it should end as soon as full decision making is given to just one parent.
Cheeseburgermafia 4 years ago
why is this being talked about in a court? isn't this up to the parent with full custody?
boelvira 4 years ago
This is just not right at all!!! WOW.
CharityAngel 4 years ago
This bothers me a great deal in that church and state are supposed to be separate....how can this judge rule on a religious matter? I don't have a problem with her personal feelings but can't believe that it is lawful for her to hand down an order on a religious decision.
Eileen Plunkett
emplunkett 4 years ago
For a judge to order that the child cannot be baptized is just as outrageous and unconstitutional as it would be if she ordered that the child had to be baptized. How arrogant of the judiciary to believe that no dispute is outside their authority to arbitrate.
dasnasdi 4 years ago
Church HAS NO AUTHORITY. Where do you get that malarkey? They only have the authority the individual grants to them. The mother, rightly, granted them NONE! 18 is the age of legal responsibility, and since the decision to side with a church could be a life altering decision, 18 is best. Was the decision by Lewis appealed? Then it is a moot point.
sAME2U22 4 years ago
The judge usurps the role of Church and has crossed the line into the Erastian Heresy. She has no authority to determine the age of Baptism for a child when that authority solely rests with the Church.
coviepresb1647 4 years ago
i like Judge Leslie Lewis she just speaks the truth
TSXboy26 4 years ago
well then....let the child decide if she wants to be baptized.
catsofsaturn 4 years ago
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ubuchuckp4 4 years ago
12 is still to young to make such a decision.
Toukisarchu 4 years ago
The judge is a human being.... a bitch to go on and on over her "personal" views; but in the end I would have to agree that since there is disagreement between parents, that 8 is too young. Even in a convert household, I think 8 is too young; but in a solid, 2-parent family or family all in agreement and continues to raise the child in the same religion, then 8 is certainly fine. Divorce or conversion = should be 12. My opinion.
SWSimpson 4 years ago
Keep the government out of the Church
jal3961 4 years ago
How ironic. This in a state government that will never separate religion from government.
maxpixel 4 years ago
That is IMPOSSIBLE, jal3961. As long as a church is a corporation the Government CAN interfere. A "free church" (a NON-corporate church) has no standing in a court of law because of the separation clause, and they remain under Constitutional jurisdiction. Similar to a foreign govt establishing an embassy here--our laws do not apply to them.
sAME2U22 4 years ago
It is NOT impossible as the Scriptures are the higher law of the land, not the Constitution.
coviepresb1647 4 years ago
So much for the "higher law" of polygamy, eh?
covie. Once they (a church) agreed to abide ALL laws by becoming a 501c3 Corporate Church they gave up ANY right to the "higher law", and MUST abide the laws of men, AS THEY AGREED TO DO! The ONLY ones that are free to act according to this "higher law" are UN-INCORPORATED churches.
sAME2U22 4 years ago
Quite true. This is why legally recognized marriages are not marriages before God.
By the power vested in me by the state of New York... this is what you year. This person cannot perform a legal marriage unless he says this. He cannot mention God in this sentence.
Cheeseburgermafia 4 years ago
I find it disturbing when people say things like this. The scriptures are the higher law of the land? I think not. Have you ever entertained the possibility that most atheists live a good honest life without the 'Scriptures' Have a little faith in your fellow man. Pun most assuredly intended.
Neelo5000 3 years ago
She said NOTHING against baptism - she is against imposing it on someone before they are ready to make an *informed* decision. I'll be a catholic all my life because I've been baptised as a baby. I'm not practising, but I wish I had had the choice. Ask some circumcised men about the age of consent and the right to choose...
Cat919 4 years ago
Being baptized a Catholic does NOT mean you must remain a Catholic all your life. If you prefer another religion, then go for it. God doesn't care what religion you practice. All he expects is that you live a good, moral life. And this comment comes from a practicing Catholic who agrees and disagrees with her church all the time. But I still like Mass, I still like Communion and I find that my hour at church is my real time to listen and talk with God.
Eileen Plunkett
emplunkett 4 years ago
"False Priests who oppress and Tyrants who reign with blood and horror upon the world"
Bureyeanne 5 years ago
what in hell does that mean? Are you referring to the 500 year reign of terror of the inquisitions throughout Europe, established, funded and operated by the Vatican? Or do you mean the puritan/quakers who were paranoid about witchcraft?
SWSimpson 4 years ago
both. And the keep in mind a minester is also the word for a governmental leaders. So I mean coruption everywere. Church, State, buisness, schools, you name it.
Bureyeanne 4 years ago
glad this judge is out. Judges need to be held more accountable.
ssacehole 5 years ago
that was a fair and just ruling, although too personal, it was fair. If both parents agreed on religion, then it would have been okay. Since they disagree, the child needs to be more mature because it is no longer just a baptism, but also a struggle between the wishes of 2 parents with the kid in the middle. Surely you can see that.
SWSimpson 4 years ago
Glad Lesbian Lewis was voted OUT. What a witch. This bimbo needs BagBalm for her face!
What goes 'round comes 'round, LeslieBaby. About time you got dumped, you harridan.
tlgg1 5 years ago
Does anyone realize that the mother didn't want the girl to be baptized? It's not about church and state it's about refing a divorce hearing. Anyone whos been through a divorce knows that they are ugly and filled with hate or easer than getting married.
tab117 5 years ago
The child has a father too. Does his input not matter? The fact is that judge Lewis is nothing more than a bitter apostate ex-mormon who deserved to be voted out of office. She should be banned from ever working in any capicity in the legal profession!
cowboy1000000 5 years ago
yes his input matters. However, this is a person we are talking about, not a possesion. If the man wants the coin collection that he collected and the woman didn't give a flying flip about then he should get it. This is a major step in someones spirtuality. A baptizm shouldn't be about getting one up on an ex-wife. It should be about connecting with heavingly father.
tab117 5 years ago
it sounds to me like you view this as a religious issue more than a legal issue. As you know, every religion is welcome in utah. However, once you start forcing your religious doctrine on another religion, i.e mormons, you've crossed a line that should never be crossed.
Leave mormons alone to practice their religion how they see fit; don't try dening mormons their constitional rights no matter how weird their beliefs seem to be to you.
cowboy1000000 5 years ago
How often do liberals get upset about religion "forced" onto them? Yet this judge tried to DENY relious rights to a child! Liberals are hypocrits. Its okay for them to force their beliefs onto religious people, yet no one had better even thing of parcticing their relion, even within their own families! I'm glad shes no longer a judge. I hope she never works in the legal profeesion for the rest of her life!
cowboy1000000 5 years ago
I love it when people say something like 'Liberals are hypocrits', because it saves me the trouble of reading the rest of what they have to say.
Neelo5000 3 years ago
Voters have decided to oust a controversial Third District judge. Judge Leslie Lewis will vacate her seat as judge in January of 2007.
Impugn1 5 years ago
it is all about th elaw and not personal opinion and th einability to resolve what happened to her personally. I was glad to vote her out. Sadly, there are a few more loser judges here in SL County that are as baised as the deposed Queen Lewis.
utahaztec 5 years ago
I witnessed the fury of her Highness in a doctors office, screaming at the staff about a bill, reminding the ENTIRE waiting room that "she is a judge & demands to be treated like a judge"
I've never forgotten that outburst.
angel6025 5 years ago
When did that event happen? Before or after she was voted off the bench?
LDSCTRRWH 5 years ago
Judge Lewis has received high praise as a judge who genuinely cares about the people before her in court. So it was with great regret that I voted against her today because I think a judge should be smart enough to render a decision while keeping non-legal issues out of it. This was particularly evident in the case involving the brother of the deer hunter. I hope she finds a job in Utah's legal system that capitalizes on her strengths.
60SecondsOn 5 years ago
High praise for caring? How can a judge be unbiased when she "cares" too much. A judges position you not be used to make a political stand and make a proclomation of personal views. judges should keep their focus on law books and quit trying to make some political or personal statement. It makes them all look bad. Judge Lewis is such a disgrace!!!!
theTingster 5 years ago
Has this lunatic ever heard of freedom of religion and the separation of church and state. She has just established that the state (as she is representing it) is passing judgement on what is proper excercise of religion. PROHIBITING baptism? If whe were on the bench here, she would have been run out of town after being tarred and feathered. I think "her Honor" slept through several courses in constitutional law and is legislating from the bench. Vote this dumb blonde out of office!
rray32539 5 years ago
Idiot Judges. Jeezzz! First they take away our Plural Marriage then they presume that 8 year olds can't make adult decisions. They'll probably determine that a 14 year old isn't fit to make a decision about marrying Warren Jeffs. HUMPFHH!! Pompous Judges!!
KOLOB22 5 years ago
The judge is about as smart as a rock. she has two brain cells one is lost and the other is looking for it. She is just plain dumb. 8 is the age for accoutibility and the judge should have no say in the childs religious issues it is between the parent and the child to decide. i thought that was what the seperation of church and state was!!
rammstein4herrscher 5 years ago
Up to the parent and child to decide? How exactly does an 8 year old make such a big decision? There's no soul-searching, contemplation, or discussion. A child is incapable of knowing the gravity of such a ritual.
But, the judge is off base. I agree that at the very least the parents should be in agreement about it, but the judge started her own diatribe. She may be doing the right thing for the child, but she stepped over the line when she started telling the parents how to parent their child.
bdroach 5 years ago
If I was to teach my 8 year old child that it was right to steal, then it would be my crime, not the child's. A child of 8 is not old enough to make adult decisions, such as whether they'll be religious. The judge is not commenting on the validity of religion, but rather the rights of a child and the age at which that child can make life-changing decisions. If she deems it an abuse for the mother to baptise the child in this instance, then she does have jurisdiction over that.
markwiese 2 years ago
While you may agree with Judge Lewis on the issue, the big deal with her is she did what she did not because it was best for the child, but because she views herself as a victim and is using her own bias to make decisions to right what she percieves as wrongs in he own past.
rbryner 5 years ago
rbryner;You hit the nail on the head with your evaluation.>This judge needs to be voted out.
dirk44pitt 5 years ago
BOY!!! rbryner. The Spirit of the HOLY GHOST is working through you today!! I'm just glad there are people like you out there in this cruel ol world to right every wrong and see that justice is done. A mere mortal would never have picked up on Lewis' deep psychocological scar if you hadn't pointed it out. Thanks!!
KOLOB22 5 years ago
Judge Lewis is famous for getting emotional on the stand. She is famous for bringing her own issues in. It's not a liberal/conservative issue- it's an issue of being slightly crazy.
antonionicapalini 3 years ago
I don't think the judge did make her decision based purely on her own experience. I believe it's fairly obvious that a child of that age is too young to choose to be religious, and therefore forcing baptism upon them is not right. The judge was simply pointing out how damaging that abuse can be (by referring to her own experience). Even if she hadn't been baptised against her will herself, I think she still would've ruled this way due to her belief that it is wrong to do that to children.
markwiese 2 years ago