i agree with the notion that electronic kits dont have the flexibility in style of real kits. at least in the snare area. but i think his sounds pretty damn good. the snare sounded pretty good for it.
@dridethepresident I've seen a lot of the toontrack stuff, like the EZDrummer, Drumkit From Hell, Metal Foundry, etc. but I still can't stand hearing any of the snares. The toms are good, but the snares always sound artificial, I'd much rather break the bank getting a really good acoustic snare.
@r4pt0rP5K a lot of the snares are good, my friend just got all of the toontrack software ever made, he got it by mistake too, he ordered one 150 dollar program and they accidently sent him 1500$ worth of software haha. well anway if you actually go through all of it and listen to everything a lot of the snares do sound great.
TL is awesome. But metal drumming's definitely not his job. He better take his sunglasses and tie off to "explain" somethin he doesn't even handles...
you dont do an alternating blast with 16th bass notes, it sounds like a mess. that double tap snare beat he was doing sounded shit. stick to your chops thomas and leave the blasting for metal drummers!
... you think its not hard? prove to me you can do this and i will accept your claim... if you cannot then you fall into the relms of a judgemental vagina with a fishy odour.
i belive you just have reservations about thomas lang as a person... because if it was one of you fav drummers you would simply say "i can do this"... it seems to me you wish to report negative comments not to the playing but to lang himself... but like i said prove you can do this and i will apologise. thankyou.
You certainly have speed, but your drumming is not that good. You focus only in speed but you still need feeling, punch, color, dynamics. I play for a living as a session musician and you have skills but there's a long way ahead of you to become a great drummer. The fact that you can play fast shouldn't stop you to be impressed when watching a good musician doing his stuff with feeling, technique, dynamics and musicallity all together, just take what you can to increase your drumming skills.
Are you kidding me? Have you seen anything by him other than this video? This like a percent of a percent of what Lang can do. He's primarily a funk drummer.
Dude, i think i need to clarify something here... I really like Thomas lang and respect him a lot as the incredible musician he is. My comment above was a reply to someone (TheUnconsecrated) who claimed Thomas DVD is not helpful or impresive and i totally disagree. It doesn't matter what style of drumming you prefer, blasting, funk, fusion, whatever, you can find some interesting ideas to adapt to your drumming in Thomas DVD. That's my humble opinion.
@BoM45 , Long story, some guy commented on this video that Thomas Lang is not impressive or even a good drummer and suggested his own video to watch as a demonstration He is better than lang, I watched his video he's not even close to Lang's technicallity so I replied to him that speed is not the only thing a Drummer should look for... and since then everybody things I said that about thomas lang but i was just replying to that guy!!!! just to clarify again, I think Thomas lang is great!!!
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
metal drummers need to learn how to keep time instead of pounding the shit outta their kit. dont get my wrong, i love metal music, but its not the drummers place to shine. the drummer is there to keep time. and the true best drummers out there are the ones like peart and alex van halen. not the ones that sit there and do off-time blast beats. but this guy is good.
youre an absolute tool. go listen to sikth, meshuggah, lamb of god etc listen to their playing and tell me its "out of time" its probably the most precision timed drumming you can get. The signitures that thomas haag drums to are mind bending. as what240sx said, you clearly just listen to shit metal
@freakangel62 You my friend are a complete and utter moron =D Have a nice day ... *cough* douche bag =D
You are so uniformed it is PAINFUL! Listen to chris adler and say that he is out of time!!!! Go listen to some real metal come back admit ur mistake then kill ur self :)
this guy is an insane drummer man, best funk drummer out there, but yeah he has to work on blasting. but even pete sandoval does the same type of blasting, and u dont see anyone criticizing him. give lang a break man, he can probably whoop ur asses in funk
The only good thing about electronic drums is sound control. I bought them cause i have my acoustic in the garage and play that in the summer. Come winter i'm cozy in the house playing electrics
@love2punk I think you should learn the definition of "explain" before calling me an idiot. The only thing I got out of what he said in the beginning is that there are different types of blast beat. He didn't explain anything.
@pantera880 i agree! on blasting hes not much better than me even, but at everything else here, hes ridiculously good. Also his funk stuff.... blasts dont seem to be his thing though!
ok, he doesn't blast that good, but he's a fucking good drummer! many of that black and death metal drumming beast are very lame because they're only try to be brutal...
it is not easy to play fast and rough and at the same time clean and in time, but where are the grooves, the tricky things and where is the fun to paly different types of styles?
i like metal and also brutal metal, but i'm getting sick of this boring bam bam bam in your face drumming :)
that obviously takes a lot of skill and hes definitely one of the best drummers in the world but as far as blasting goes hes not even close! and i dont think he could pul that off without triggers and his huge electric kit.
love every of his drumming videos, but i just can't get used to the look of his bass pedals on his electric set. they look like weird slippers rather than bass pedals.
This guy makes me laugh just by looking at him.... LOL those shows make him look like hes from the 50's, other than that his drumming is not that bad.
Love this guy but im really dis agreeing with the electronic kit for this one although its amazingly clear, i just never like the synthetic Hello Kitty suicide cult feel....
ok, this guy is retarded. if you want to learn about a blast beat look up mike smith from suffocation, he's the one who invented the frickin thing. this guy sucks
Fuck.
drummerjstone 17 hours ago
FAAAKKKKKK KICKKKK BADD ASSSS
upavideo 6 days ago
Only Thomas can look good blasting with traditional
blobertisoriginal 2 months ago
you gotta love the suit cmon thats awesome
75nova420 2 months ago
素晴らしすぎる
010973baba 2 months ago
ein zwa drei fü
laromande 4 months ago
Okay, one foot blast beats AND traditional style!?
DAMN.
stbguitarist 5 months ago
THIS VIDEO IS THE DEFINITION OF BLASTBEATS!!
B3ASTM0DE92 5 months ago
GOD
mcrfreako1011 6 months ago
lol, half of those beats aren't even blasts.
boobsmakemehappy1 7 months ago
He's great, no doubt. Very precise, but I hated the sound of those blasts using double strokes between the hands.... wtf...
bomberbadj 8 months ago
cool shoes
armstrongbrosband 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
he didn't explain shit
stonedvideos1 9 months ago
its not him doing the blasts. its the power of the chuck taylors...
TheTschmidt55 10 months ago 2
i agree with the notion that electronic kits dont have the flexibility in style of real kits. at least in the snare area. but i think his sounds pretty damn good. the snare sounded pretty good for it.
lonewolf975 10 months ago
i love thomas lang and all. but his electric kit sounds way too much like a drum machine
cheinberger1 10 months ago
cant take him seriously wearing those shoes
DD8081 11 months ago
Those double stroke foot rolls are amazing.
CadaverSplatter 11 months ago
get on his fucking level
LooopQ 1 year ago 3
This has been flagged as spam show
I don't care how good of a drummer you are, you can't make an electronic kit sound good.
r4pt0rP5K 1 year ago
I don't care how good of a drummer you are, you can't make an electronic kit sound good.
r4pt0rP5K 1 year ago
@r4pt0rP5K I thought it sounded great. I don't know why anyone would hate the E-kits, they're revolutionary o.o
Fuhjigglepoft 1 year ago
@r4pt0rP5K look up superior drummer. by toontrack witht hat you absolutely can
dridethepresident 1 year ago
@dridethepresident I've seen a lot of the toontrack stuff, like the EZDrummer, Drumkit From Hell, Metal Foundry, etc. but I still can't stand hearing any of the snares. The toms are good, but the snares always sound artificial, I'd much rather break the bank getting a really good acoustic snare.
r4pt0rP5K 1 year ago
@r4pt0rP5K a lot of the snares are good, my friend just got all of the toontrack software ever made, he got it by mistake too, he ordered one 150 dollar program and they accidently sent him 1500$ worth of software haha. well anway if you actually go through all of it and listen to everything a lot of the snares do sound great.
dridethepresident 1 year ago
@dridethepresident They still don't compare to a real acoustic snare.
r4pt0rP5K 1 year ago
@r4pt0rP5K thats not true at all. look up periphery or animals as leaders everything sounds so good
dridethepresident 1 year ago
Yo Pete sandoval created blast beats fuck tards
The666brutal666 1 year ago
@The666brutal666 Hey dumbass it doesn't say that TL invented blast beats, just that the first demonstration is the most basic of the BB's
Fuhjigglepoft 1 year ago
wtf are those bass drum pad things?
0NauGhT0 1 year ago
Awesome.
jfreyvogel 1 year ago
Arnold Schwarzenegger rocks!
gnugen 1 year ago 17
This has been flagged as spam show
ok lets see here, guy in sweater vest + epic drum blastbeats = better than chuck norris
DivineSlayer1 1 year ago
Holy crap. This guy is flippin awesome!
HelmertzIF 1 year ago
is he doing double stroke rolls on the foot or something like a slide which is alternating?
slappy94 1 year ago
TL is awesome. But metal drumming's definitely not his job. He better take his sunglasses and tie off to "explain" somethin he doesn't even handles...
Astenios666 1 year ago
FASTASFUCKKKKK
lucadepu 1 year ago
once again gay outfit nice drumming
boia25 1 year ago
Impressive...but can he play Enter Sandman on drums?
Hughesy16LFC 1 year ago
@Hughesy16LFC
Enter sandman is really not hard on the drums!!! it's very simple
Stoffn 1 year ago
@Stoffn Lol yeh i know i was joking. I could play Enter Sandman within a couple of months of playing drums. This guy is awesome.
Hughesy16LFC 1 year ago
AUSTRIA! hell yeah! bin stulz auf unsam buam!
Burymeinautumn 1 year ago
IT'S MY FUCKIN NAIGHTMAREEE!!!!!! IM SO CONFUSED!!! NOISES EVERYWHERE!!!!!
nojam4u 1 year ago
wtf is going on!!
flaginlagin 1 year ago
pjjjjjjjjjaa whatever man
MrMcmikemike 1 year ago
This guy is crazy! Those shoes don't go with that shirt.
applepilover 1 year ago 2
He's good, but he looks like a douchebag lol. Idk how he is in real life though so I wouldn't know.
Ryu12543 1 year ago
@Ryu12543
omg, rofl.
Gorehammer23 1 year ago
at 0:32 eins, zwei, drei, vier xD ...nice to hear that he didn't Completely switch to english yet
c0d3x001 1 year ago
@c0d3x001 "oans, zwoa, drei, via" hes from Stockerau (Austria)
thekobsta 1 year ago
@thekobsta ja weiß ich doch... nur ich als deutscher weiß nich wie man österreichische akzente schreibt xD
c0d3x001 1 year ago
Thomas Lang is a God among mediocre drummers
Jdcie 1 year ago
@Jdcie what do you mean??
he up ther with jojo, and gadd and shit
sxerDude 1 year ago
Im gonna be sick.
TheLuckysw 1 year ago
red chucks, so awesome.
InShatteredMolds 1 year ago
freaky bass pedal
bbub123 1 year ago
Roland V-drums are absolutely horrible
stevo946 1 year ago 8
Sweet kit!
rooseveltsbones 1 year ago
you dont do an alternating blast with 16th bass notes, it sounds like a mess. that double tap snare beat he was doing sounded shit. stick to your chops thomas and leave the blasting for metal drummers!
thispagesux 1 year ago
he didn't explain it, he stabbed it in the throat and bled it out
x
DidYourMomOSaurus 1 year ago
nice glasses fag
catphish454 1 year ago
@catphish454. leave him alone...obviousley that dark grey cloudy sky is really dazzeling lol!
thispagesux 1 year ago
6 bass drums !?!?!?
TokioHotelHasser07 1 year ago
Double down blast beats with his feet, thats fucking incredible.
guitardude1230 1 year ago
i know lang is world class but his blast beats suck!
thispagesux 1 year ago 2
@thispagesux I tend to agree sir...bleh..
catphish454 1 year ago
people ike thomas lang.......should not be alive.........they make everyone else feel like shit lol.
woink 1 year ago 3
Playing this way with trad grip has always looked well,fun to me ^^
Rockin performance tho
DimeFan90 2 years ago
I hate you.
LeonJordison 2 years ago
Those are clearly chain driven and not Axis Pedals.
HardHitsOnlyPlease 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
This is one weak blast, holy crap.
NukeClock 2 years ago
wtf??
r2zibit 1 year ago
... you think its not hard? prove to me you can do this and i will accept your claim... if you cannot then you fall into the relms of a judgemental vagina with a fishy odour.
i belive you just have reservations about thomas lang as a person... because if it was one of you fav drummers you would simply say "i can do this"... it seems to me you wish to report negative comments not to the playing but to lang himself... but like i said prove you can do this and i will apologise. thankyou.
Davidbirtles1 2 years ago
A judgemental vagina? You're being too harsh :P
HandPeopleHandPeople 2 years ago
You certainly have speed, but your drumming is not that good. You focus only in speed but you still need feeling, punch, color, dynamics. I play for a living as a session musician and you have skills but there's a long way ahead of you to become a great drummer. The fact that you can play fast shouldn't stop you to be impressed when watching a good musician doing his stuff with feeling, technique, dynamics and musicallity all together, just take what you can to increase your drumming skills.
mdrumjack 2 years ago
Are you kidding me? Have you seen anything by him other than this video? This like a percent of a percent of what Lang can do. He's primarily a funk drummer.
explodingpimp 2 years ago 2
Dude, i think i need to clarify something here... I really like Thomas lang and respect him a lot as the incredible musician he is. My comment above was a reply to someone (TheUnconsecrated) who claimed Thomas DVD is not helpful or impresive and i totally disagree. It doesn't matter what style of drumming you prefer, blasting, funk, fusion, whatever, you can find some interesting ideas to adapt to your drumming in Thomas DVD. That's my humble opinion.
mdrumjack 2 years ago 3
@mdrumjack is this post directed towards thomas lang? cause if it is, this is the funniest post i have ever seen on youtube. No exaggeration
BoM45 1 year ago
@BoM45 , Long story, some guy commented on this video that Thomas Lang is not impressive or even a good drummer and suggested his own video to watch as a demonstration He is better than lang, I watched his video he's not even close to Lang's technicallity so I replied to him that speed is not the only thing a Drummer should look for... and since then everybody things I said that about thomas lang but i was just replying to that guy!!!! just to clarify again, I think Thomas lang is great!!!
mdrumjack 1 year ago
Man, you should watch the entire DVD, HE IS REEEEALLY IMPRESSIVE and his advices helped me a lot with my double bass drumming.
mdrumjack 2 years ago
sorry but you guys are retarded. this guy is extremely precise.
Anonymous122131 2 years ago 52
@Anonymous122131 yeah he is. this just inst his style. lol hes a metal poser xD
PipoBones 1 year ago
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@Anonymous122131 Lol not really.
Punjabi192 1 year ago
@Anonymous122131 Ikr? Why does everyone say that any drummer, let alone Thomas Lang, is not precise when they can hands down kick the commenter's ass
Fuhjigglepoft 1 year ago
@Anonymous122131 he's precise because he's playing slightly slower than the drummers that leave their comfort zone and fall on their face...
PattyWhomperOFFICIAL 1 year ago
Go check out Blake Richardson and Shannon Lucas and tell me metal drummers just pound on their shit off-time. You obviously listen to shitty metal.
what240sx 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
metal drummers need to learn how to keep time instead of pounding the shit outta their kit. dont get my wrong, i love metal music, but its not the drummers place to shine. the drummer is there to keep time. and the true best drummers out there are the ones like peart and alex van halen. not the ones that sit there and do off-time blast beats. but this guy is good.
freakangel62 2 years ago
Why dont you go lick a fucking chode?
EvanDotMac 2 years ago
allow me to disagree...
warwick487 2 years ago
@freakangel62 lol you talk about metal drummers and your examples are rush and van halen? van halen MAYBE used to be, but they aint metal now!
MetalheadAlex9 2 years ago
youre an absolute tool. go listen to sikth, meshuggah, lamb of god etc listen to their playing and tell me its "out of time" its probably the most precision timed drumming you can get. The signitures that thomas haag drums to are mind bending. as what240sx said, you clearly just listen to shit metal
GTFRANKS 2 years ago
sorry his names thomas haake not haag
GTFRANKS 2 years ago
@freakangel62 You my friend are a complete and utter moron =D Have a nice day ... *cough* douche bag =D
You are so uniformed it is PAINFUL! Listen to chris adler and say that he is out of time!!!! Go listen to some real metal come back admit ur mistake then kill ur self :)
kcpod12481 2 years ago
i love his skills
but his passion ? musicalilty? nope
taproot12 2 years ago
He looks like a Classier Bruce Wayne..
TheRageAndGrace 2 years ago
nice shoes
Goose1294 2 years ago
Amazing beats.
brameijkr2d 2 years ago
this guy is an insane drummer man, best funk drummer out there, but yeah he has to work on blasting. but even pete sandoval does the same type of blasting, and u dont see anyone criticizing him. give lang a break man, he can probably whoop ur asses in funk
abhimuscat 2 years ago
xD
i live in ingolstadt =D
do you know that? xD
Renaultm00 2 years ago
Intresting but where is the musicalilty? yet another reason why you still shouldnt buy electronics. hehehehe....
tronque 2 years ago
The only good thing about electronic drums is sound control. I bought them cause i have my acoustic in the garage and play that in the summer. Come winter i'm cozy in the house playing electrics
Drummerwithagroove 2 years ago
omg thomas lang is a fucking bear !!!
ryananzo 2 years ago 2
The first one he did (On teh real kit) was awesome! The others I didn't like so much...
thegreyfox 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
his blasts sound terrible because he is doing double stroke rolls on the bass and playing too soft with the hands.
The blasting he is trying to do needs to be done with power. You do that by doing single strokes on the bass and striking with more power up top.
The kind of blasting he is more use to centers around feeling, which is most likely why he does double strokes on the feet.
This kind of blast beat can work, but he isn't pulling it off what-so-ever.
AirmetalDrummer 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
my dick can do better blastbeats
xxjakebockxx 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Lol his counting sounds Sooooo Gay 0:31 - 0:33
RaMmStEiNeR988 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
horrible blasting
BTeeper 2 years ago
not that good blasting, check darrek roddy
69stringibanez 2 years ago
ja geil " oans zwoa oans zwoa drei via" :D it`s bavarian :D
Petrasilchen 2 years ago
buff german guy playing a blastbeat on a strange sounding drumset
254fds 2 years ago
(PerKristian93)
Buy the DVD... There u'll get all the explanations you need.
sebas404 2 years ago 2
"Explains blastbeat"? At what point does he explain anything?
PerKristian93 2 years ago 12
Comment removed
sebas404 2 years ago
@PerKristian93 it says at the start idiot
love2punk 1 year ago
@love2punk I think you should learn the definition of "explain" before calling me an idiot. The only thing I got out of what he said in the beginning is that there are different types of blast beat. He didn't explain anything.
Thanks for wasting my time.
PerKristian93 1 year ago
@PerKristian93 This is only a clip. It might be from a DVD of his, so there's probably more to the video. I'm not sure though.
retartedhorseify 1 year ago
@PerKristian93 this is a video for sale not for free
druminallday 1 year ago
@PerKristian93
you dont have to be a genius to figure out what a blast beat is from this example.
howycwap 1 year ago
hmmm. blast beats are like econo picking..
highintel 2 years ago
he doesnt blast that good. he can do the other stuff he does so much better.
pantera880 2 years ago
@pantera880 i agree! on blasting hes not much better than me even, but at everything else here, hes ridiculously good. Also his funk stuff.... blasts dont seem to be his thing though!
BoM45 1 year ago
hes good, and i have to expect someone who drums in converse! but i dont like it, and i think he has way too much stuff on his drums.
1994tucker 2 years ago
I drum in converse but I have only been drumming for a few weeks now lol :D
bittmunch 2 years ago
traditional FTW
Pandanobear 2 years ago
0 :22 have you got enough fucking cymbals
oFIRESoHURTo 2 years ago
inferno is so much fucking better.
helldrummer01 2 years ago
thats a weird ass way to have your kicks and pads set up. interesting tho, must try it
runestomymemory 2 years ago
This snare sound makes me sick :@
ChuckNorris55555 2 years ago 4
Is it just me or does his snare get off timing at 1:28-1:32 ??
Goooter 2 years ago
he does sound a little off there to me too
but it's not like he's a death or grindcore drummer anyway, so who cares :P
MrLittleShot 2 years ago
Thomas Lang IS timing
Pandanobear 2 years ago
ok, he doesn't blast that good, but he's a fucking good drummer! many of that black and death metal drumming beast are very lame because they're only try to be brutal...
it is not easy to play fast and rough and at the same time clean and in time, but where are the grooves, the tricky things and where is the fun to paly different types of styles?
i like metal and also brutal metal, but i'm getting sick of this boring bam bam bam in your face drumming :)
schwingfate 2 years ago
thats why u shoudl listen to lamb of god chris adler is possibly the most unique metal drummer i have heard
deweyDB 2 years ago
Oh, you don't say? More unique than Aaron Turner of ISIS? or Hellhammer of Mayhem?
kraastopher 2 years ago
I like your shoes.
napalmfred 2 years ago
that obviously takes a lot of skill and hes definitely one of the best drummers in the world but as far as blasting goes hes not even close! and i dont think he could pul that off without triggers and his huge electric kit.
metalgtar 2 years ago
look up "necrophagist drumming" on youtube if you want to see much better blasting.
weevil3582 2 years ago
ew i mean hes an incredible drummer, better than 99% of death metal drummers, but his blasts suck!
weevil3582 2 years ago
Thats casue all death metal or most anyway only use blast beats and terrible fills he can do it all
Theitouchreviewerz 2 years ago
Austrian Death Machine!
xD
drummakid101 2 years ago
a german drummer ???
nice ^^
TokioHotelHasser07 2 years ago
not german - austrian!!! :)
skapunq 2 years ago 2
oh sorry
in the beginning it sounds like german ^^
TokioHotelHasser07 2 years ago
I am german and in the beginning he counts up two fou. ;) "Eins zwei drei vier". I don't understand australian so i think he speaks german :)
hellsweethell 2 years ago
I noticed that too!
MrLittleShot 2 years ago
is he rolling his feet? it doesnt look that fast lol
lackthereof1783 2 years ago
looks like he's just playing normal 16 pathern on the kicks x)
mdbtrz 2 years ago
doesn't sound like it
readymade98 2 years ago
i never mentioned how it sounded like.
mdbtrz 2 years ago
i dont know what just happened. but i think a just came a little.
xBICYCLEx 2 years ago
österreichische power!!! yeeehaw
sPiNcH 2 years ago
interesting
9995655 2 years ago
love every of his drumming videos, but i just can't get used to the look of his bass pedals on his electric set. they look like weird slippers rather than bass pedals.
still my favorite drummer
niels977 2 years ago
haha! maybe you can't hear it because the mic level is not turned up very high?
drummessiah 2 years ago
Austrian
pirchale 2 years ago
wat language did he speak when he counted for the second tiem lol?
Phenom1025 2 years ago
german but he's austrian
uetiger2 2 years ago
german..eins zwei drei vier!..and to the other guy...Austria's main and official language is german
deathleprachan13 2 years ago
he has like three of the big Roland sets, ONE costs $5000
UKrocketeer 2 years ago 3
This guy makes me laugh just by looking at him.... LOL those shows make him look like hes from the 50's, other than that his drumming is not that bad.
DD8081 2 years ago 4
Omg rofl!!!!! Traditonal does work the fuck out of your hand though but shouldnt step anywhere out of jazz and drumline.
pugestrife 2 years ago
lmao you are exactly right..
killerdrummer69er 2 years ago
OANS ZWOA | OANS ZWOA DREI VIA!!
sk8nmetalpsycho 3 years ago 3
It's Eins, zwei, drei, vier, lol.
daryldeveyra 3 years ago
austrians count oans zwoa drei via
sk8nmetalpsycho 3 years ago 2
scheiss deitscher doxD
LpBonecrack 2 years ago
lol
dartosdeathmetal 3 years ago
wow that electronic kit sound is heinous lol...
Charactereyes 3 years ago
Love this guy but im really dis agreeing with the electronic kit for this one although its amazingly clear, i just never like the synthetic Hello Kitty suicide cult feel....
Dragon5n 3 years ago
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ok, this guy is retarded. if you want to learn about a blast beat look up mike smith from suffocation, he's the one who invented the frickin thing. this guy sucks
egaleoj 3 years ago
Comment removed
Legaradon 2 years ago
that's called showing off not explaining in my opinion. sorry for saying that :\
iwbtssothy 3 years ago
maybe on the dvd after that clip he explains it?
joshperree 2 years ago
lol i love how he plays the first blast with just one foot @_@
pdp420 3 years ago