hmm two replies from the same person, the last one more uhinged than the first. I think I might have touched a nerve.
My point was about murder and I used the UK as a comparison precisely because it has a high crime rate and has the biggest drug crime problem in Europe.
We recently had some large scale riots and the only death was by an automobile.
Logically you should be able to see that guns make bad situations worse. I don't have to keep a gun because the criminals don't carry them.
@bingofingers Listen up Liberal Pussy as I lay out the facts:
In YOUR REGION of Western Europe the UK has THE MOST crime
Whereas Switzerland has the least crime in the world
In Switzerland every 18 year old man is conscripted for basic training and afterwards is required to keep their full auto SIG SG 550, service pistol and a certain amount of ammo at home!
In the UK you call the cops like a pansy and wait until the real men show up to take care of you. Then they bang ur wife as you watch!
A crazy person with an automatic weapon is far more likely to kill you IF YOU ARE UNARMED
That is why your chance of being murdered in America is higher IF YOU ARE UNARMED
Oh and your prison populations are much higher too so I don't thin they are much of a crime deterrent. But the gun in my house certainly is. In the UK 50% of home invasions happen with the occupant inside the home, in the US only 13%.
Drunk drivers kill more a month than guns do in a year. Why isn't alcohol banned? What about the cars the drunks drive? Shall we ban them as well? Making more laws will not help. What WILL help is ENFORCING the laws on the books NOW. When you put a ban on guns, the "bad guys" are the ONLY ones not affected. Do you honestly think a "bad guy" will turn his weapon in once it is banned? People need to get some common sense!
message to americans. you have the right to bear arms. any restrictions on guns are illegal and unconstitutional. no matter what laws they pass. any law which is repugnent to the constitution is nul and void- marbury vs madison. there is no such thing as a illegal gun in america. don't let them take your guns. you have been warned.
@jneil2007 The logic driving gun control proponents is simple: By reducing the quantity of guns in cirulation, the amount of heinous, violent crimes that could be commited would go down. Rico, instead of shooting his cousin Edwardo, may instead just punch him in the face or stab him in the chest.
@jowbowcow Yes, guns obviously aren't sentient beings, but they allow for more violent crime to be commited. this isn't a game of semantics, guns DO kill people at the whim of human beings.
@kingnat2 Wrong. They are inanimate objects. They don't kill. If they did, why aren't the guns prosecuted? They do not have the magical power to "allow for more violent crime to be commited." Crimes are committed by people. Not guns.
Yes, they do have different populations. However, when we're talking about 24,000 to 11, I'm pretty sure no matter how high you scaled it up it would make a difference. But just for you, I'll do it.
The UK has 62 million people. US has 300 million. So let's multiply the gun deaths from the UK by 5 to put it to a bit over 300 million population. 55 gun deaths compared to 24 thousand.
@Elosization Well New York certainly is a metropolis and it has very restrictive gun laws compared to the rest of the US. New York (the state) along with California are the states that restrict guns the most, yet they tend to have the highest crime rates.
Also the UK has seen a steady increase in crime since they've restricted their gun laws. Is it better to die by stabbing than by a gun? Or by any other non-gun related means of killing?
@crazypants88 The homicide rate in the US is still ~5 times higher per capita than in the UK and most western nations. Crime rate overall is 80% vs 85% in favour of the US.
The US does have a shocking homicide rate for a 1st world nation. I appreciate that there are a lot of factors as to why that could be, but it is hard to imagine the highly liberal gun laws not playing a part.
@crazypants88 So you're going to ignore the very telling comparisons to other western countries, and instead compare yourself to Mexico, Thailand and Brazil - 3 very poor and corrupt countries.
@N330AA Rofl I'm cherrypicking? Dude you made no mention of countries with strict gun laws and high crime, which there are more than a few. I'm fully aware of countries with strict gun laws and low crime, I live in one. What I deny is that these two are causal. Examples such as Mexico and Thailand are very clear examples of this.
I'm not cherrypicking by referencing countries which blatantly contradict your contention.
@N330AA Ok fair enough, the US doesn't apply then in either since it's not an island...
Yeah, the fact they're poor is irrelevant. If strict gun laws deter crime, why don't they deter crime in poor countries? Also the crime has been on a steady increase in the UK since it made gun laws more restrictive.
@N330AA you have to use the scientific method when doing gun stats. first you need the TOTAL gun deaths. then you need to get the gun deaths SPECIFICALLY in Chicago New York Compton Detroit Boston washington dc. why these citys? they have strict gun controll. you will notice that these six cities gun death rates are nearly identical to the USA in total. and without these six cities the USA has less gun deaths per 100k than the UK. science is your friend not your enemy. now accept the truth
@amyhuk If these cities have identical gun dearth *rates* to the rest of the US? How does the rest of the US have a lower rate? Seems basic maths isn't your friend.
@N330AA the rest of the country has lower death rates than those six cities BECAUSE the rest of the country DOESNT RESTRICT GUNS. its ONLY in the citys that guns are restricted from law abiding citizens that gun death rates are high. with very few (statistically almost zero) exceptions
@amyhuk If you restricts guns in small pockets of the country, by definition law abiding citizens are going to have less defence, but criminals won't have (and evidently don't) too much trouble getting guns from other parts of the country where they are in circulation.
The key is to reduce circulation, and efforts to do so would probably have to be made at a federal level.
@N330AA Russia has a very high death rate of 15 deaths per 1000 people per year. This is far higher than the world's average death rate of just under 9. The death rate in the U.S. is 8 per 1000 and for the United Kingdom it's 10 per 1000. Alcohol-related deaths in Russia are very high and alcohol-related
@amyhuk The death rate means people who die of all things like old age. The homicide rate ie people killing other people is 12 per 100k in Russia, 5 in 100k in the US and 1.23 per 100k in the UK.
@amyhuk Actually the UK has a longer life expectancy than the US. Even though we pay half of what you do for healthcare. Even Cuba has a longer life expectancy than the US.
@N330AA not for much longer and our imigration affects our life expectancy avg. when lil johny click clack mumbungi from cameroon comes here with his life expectancy of 31 it lowers our life expectany
@N330AA yes i have and its not very bright. imagine 1984 on crack and steroids (the book not the actual year 1984 which was tops Thatcher Ronald Ray Gun good times good times) plumeting birthrates sky rocketing homicide rates social collapse. infact you should just top yourself right now to avoid all the nastiness
@N330AA besides have you actually SEEN the demographics of homicide rates in the United States? spoiler alert. over half of the people murdered here are black criminals...being killed by OTHER blacks
@N330AA 3/5ths has nothing to do with it. the fact is over half of the people murdered here are black criminals being killed by OTHER black criminals. if you dont believe me look up the Brady campaigns statistics on race and gun deaths. (the Brady campaign wants to outlaw all guns like you said so dont say its a conservative propaganda sight. they are as left wing as they come. infact they could make lennin blush they are so socialist)
@N330AA a more effective way to lower crime is to arm each and every person and when a criminal steps out of line let the citizenry deal with him as they see fit.
@amyhuk It still caught on! Fucking hell, the problems with guns are obvious to anyone without the gun, they're the easiest form of terrorism in the modern world. Problem is guns cost money so we'll never have "everyone has guns", but people who can only afford a gun will probably only buy a gun.
People talk about the second ammendment, I don't care about rights. A right is given to us by government. If a government has to give something the people need, then that's not a good government.
@SzlampStudios by your logic. if you were walking in the woods and a bear or cougar attacked you. you would have to wait for the govt to give you permission to defend yourself.
@SzlampStudios the bill of rights were specifically designed as a check or ballance against the three branches of power. before the bill of rights people were subject to the will of the monarch (hence the term subjects) for example the freedom of religion is in direct response to henry the 8. who forced everyone to join his religion or be beheaded. the 2nd amendment is to keep the govt from getting out of controll like in europe. where millions are killed on a regular basis
@SzlampStudios if you want to know why we need a 2nd amendment go out and buy a gun. learn to shoot it clean it and be responsible for it. then after two years walk up to the nearest police station and turn it in.
@SzlampStudios govts love to kill unarmed people when ever the people disagree with their policys. example boston massacre bloody sunday kossovo nazi germany USSR Tudor england cambodia china tanzia
@SzlampStudios the 2nd and third amendments are to curb the power of govt domination of the people. when people fear their govt you have tyrany. but when the govt fears its people you have liberty TJ
@SzlampStudios and guns are cheap. a highpoint .380 is $100. that is practically free by todays gas prices. $100 gas lasts two weeks. a gun lasts a lifetime if properly maintained
@SzlampStudios if you live in the usa then i suggest going out today and buying a gun. it will be the best investment (insurance policy?) you ever made
@SzlampStudios The easiest form of terrorism? Really? Guns terrorize all by themselves? What's more terrifying, a gun by itself, or a criminal with a gun? Guns, by themselves, can't really do anything, so clearly, to be terrifying a terrifying person wanting to do terrible things is most terrifying, gun or not. As for everyone having guns, I only want responsible, law abiding citizens to own them, who, for the most part, are the ones who legally own them now.
@jamilleizer im more affraid of my govt than i am a private citizen with a gun. people know how to use their firearms wisely and justly. the govt doesnt. the UK govt sent in their elite paratroopers to kill 14 peacful protesters in 1972. and how many govt employees were killed by protesters in 1972? answer ZERO
@jamilleizer liberals all have one thing in common. they ABSOLUTELY REFUSE to accept personal responsibility for any of their own actions. they believe that it is somebody elses responsibility to do everything for them. its like they are a class of adult children or something...
@amyhuk Here's a better stat! 96% of people who are killed with a firearm have been arrested before!
So pretty much everyone killed with guns are criminals being killed by other criminals. You're average 10 yr old kid on the street is not at risk
Just thought I'd help u with this argument
And the people who say "I dont want to ban guns" want to just make so many laws and make it so hard to obtain a firearm that most people will just say "why bother..."
@amyhuk When it comes down to it the early Marxists knew they needed to break down the foundations of society to establish it.
They knew they had to break down people's reliance on God (Churches did the charity), break apart families (have no one to turn to for help) and get rid of a sense of community/nationalism (make people isolated)
Also disarming people is key because then they will need government to step in restrict their rights (London CCTV cams) to "protect them"
@amyhuk Now you can see that many people in the media KGB was heavily involved in the American Media in the 60's-70's
Look up Yuri Bezmenov "Soviet Subversion of the Free Press"
He's an defecting KBG agent, there are some insane things in there!
Pretty much the media has been hijacked by the far-left for a long time. Attacking peoples faith, encouraging promiscuity (breaking apart families), marriage is always portrayed as CRAP in the sitcoms, ect
@N330AA as long as that trend continues who cares what the murder rate is. now if only we can get the hispanics to off each other as well that would be ace
@N330AA Do you understand how life expectancy is calculated? If not this is a rather poor argument....
I'll give you a lesson. The US has a higher infant mortality rate, but if you are middle class and 10 years old you will have a longer life span than someone middle class in the UK or someone POOR AS FUCK in Cuba.
In roman times life expectancy was 25. Was this cause everyone died when they reached 25 NO! It was because 1/2 the babies died after birth and the other 1/2 lived to 50!understand
@crazypants88 As for a comparison to the Swiss. Maybe the difference is education. Does that make liberal guns laws not guilty? No. Maybe the difference is culture? Does that make liberal guns laws not guilty? No. If liberal gun laws + poor gun education + poor gun culture/image = 5 times more deaths than other western countries, then all 3 are guilty parties.
@N330AA Funny how you accuse me of cherry picking but then cherry pick which one of my arguments to acknowledge. The highest crime rates in the US are by and large the highest in states WITH strict gun laws, not the reverse.
If restrictive gun laws deter crime, then how can this be? Also how can Mexico have criminals armed to the teeth when they restrict guns so heavily?
@crazypants88 I've never argued the crime rate, i've argued the homicide rate. The crime rate in the US is nothing special, the homicide rate is truly spectacular.
@N330AA Fair enough but even if we look at the murder rate in the US it's been on a steady decline. Unsurprisingly following many states making their gun laws less restrictive. Even if all of the US had zero gun laws and high crime/murder rate, that in and of itself wouldn't prove anything as correlation doesn't causation.
@N330AA not really 8k in a nation of 312 million? with half of those being against black criminals. look at russias gun homicide rate. its twice ours and they have fewer people. and dont get me started on Mexico. its homicide rate is through the roof and they have one of the worlds most restrictive gun laws
@amyhuk The US homicide rate is ~5 times! that of most other western countries. Again the comparison to poor and hugely corrupt countries like Russia and Mexico is cherry-picking when the rest of the civilized world manages a much lower homicide rate. Australia or Canada might be better comparisons to the US.
@N330AA australia and canada COMBINED have 1/6th the population of the united states. so NO they would not be better comparisons. and fuck you and your federal gun nabbing scheme i am not going to be defensless just because some stupid ass liberal fuckwit cant learn the lessons of history
@N330AA its death rate PER ONE THOUSAND PEOPLE so the total is irrelevant. the total is less BECAUSE THE POPULATION IS LESS!!!!!! are you fucking brain dead?
@N330AA and the REASON mexico and russia are poverty stricken hell holes is BECAUSE they restrict guns. the only people who have guns in those nations are corrupt officials and criminals.
@N330AA yes mexico and russia are poor because the people dont have guns. the reason people dont have guns is because those govts have a CENTRALIZED govt. and as we all know a centralized govt is easier to corrupt than a de centralized one. and central govts are less efficient than the free market at distributing wealth. therefore and ergo mexico and russia are poor because the people arent allowed to have guns.
@amyhuk Ok well firstly Mexico and Russia are poor, as well as many african countries because people do not have proper rights, and most importantly there is no rule of law.
With such high government corruption, and the cops on the criminals payroll you're going to have to protect yourself PERIOD
So I agree with you, if every household in Mexico/Russia had a gun there would be much lower crime. And the low crime would help foster economic prosperity
@ElosizationIf we all lived "in isolated mountains and not metropolis" we would all become better people without the will to kill? the Zurich metropolitan area has 2 million people btw! lol so much for that"no metropolis"
That is so ignorant, firstly all suicides by gun (1/2 of gun deaths in US) would be done through other methods (jumping)
Murders can be done through other methods Darfur had a genocide through machetes! Would it be wrong for people in Darfur to have guns to protect themselves!
@Elosization When you can find a country with the same socio-economic dynamics as the US, then go ahead and make a comparison, but that isn't the case with the UK.
@Coowallsky UK and US lives are remarkably similar, both socially and economically.
Big difference is the UK is a small and densely populated island. It's hard to smuggle guns in, and it's easier to police the land as their are less remote areas miles away from a police station.
The Genie is out of the bottle in the US. It'd take decades to eliminate the guns and in that time, the law abiding population would be at a distinct disadvantage.
@jowbowcow You are an industrial-strength dumbass. Switzerland is also extremely wealthy for its geographic size and population. They have strong public education and universal healthcare. You give every American male (as they are now) military training and let them keep a SIG SG 550 around, and you can kiss the country goodbye. Anyone who thumbed up this moron needs to be sterilized.
@GeneralGuitFiddle There are some great video's on the you tube channel "thearmedcitizen" that show many instances in which good people have defended themselves with firearms.
Don't listen to the media, shooting a firearm is way safer than many daily activities such as drinking, smoking, and driving.
@GeneralGuitFiddle oh yes because having universal healthcare keeps people from killing each other? WRONG!!! the reason that switzerland has a low crime rate is their arent any blacks in switzerland. if you take blacks out of the equation in the united states the homicide rate drops 50%. and blacks are only 12% of the total population. its race not economics that determines how violent a society is
If you are going to use comparison of numbers between US and UK you might at least have enough sense to use per capita figures. Or do you think that both nations are of approximately equal population?
Okai if I agree with the argument of P&T the reason why americans shoot each other like 5000x more than Germans is the fact that they are just more violent and immorall persons. IF I agree with the argument.
@Creedinger since they made all guns illegal in britain and everyone who ever registered turned theirs in guess what? gun crime rates have gone up 60%. you know why? cuz criminals never registered there guns in the first place. so by making them illegal you just get them out of the hands of mostly law abiding citizens. and even if you managed to magically make it so the criminals never got those gguns they'd just start smuggling them over the border.
True. But don't you think it is easier to kill somebody with a gun if you can buy one, then with your bare hands because you can't get a gun because they are illegal?
Look at the deaths in America due to firearms, compare this to the numbers of countries that banned guns.
As expected, a lot more Americans died then any of the other countries.
@23magicme Look at gun related crime and deaths in countries like Mexico, Thailand and Brazil. All restrict guns heavily, especially Mexico and Thailand, yet they have very high gun crimes. How could that be?
Because guns can be provided via the black market, thereby ignoring any law that says one can't have guns.
@crazypants88 true, but that is due to corruption, drugs and poor living standards. When you look at countries that actually enforce their laws and arent corrupt, such as the european countries, canada (you know, all the western world) you'll find the numbers much, much lower then countries that do allow guns.
And saying its still bad because of the black market is a bad example, because that would still be a lower number then legalizing it xD
@23magicme Right and what enables crime even further? Victims who are, by law, restricted from defending themselves.
And yes I fully concede that there are countries with strict gun laws and low crime rates, I live in one of them, one of the lowest crime rates in the world.
What I deny is that strict gun laws are causal to the low crime rates.
Mexico and Thailand prove that, for if it were causal they'd have comparable rime rates as the countries you alluded to earlier.
@crazypants88 i am not talking about crime, i am talking about deaths. You agree with me it is easier to kill somebody with a gun then a knife? You agree that if i have a knife i might kill 10 ppl before i get stopped, and with a gun 20 or more? Because really, if you think it will be just as easy to commit a crime or kill someone with a gun as without one you are truely retarded.
@23magicme No I don't necessarily agree with that. If you're raving lunatic with no regard for your or other people's safety, then yeah a gun is ideal, but if you're trying not get caught and you only intend to kill oner or few people, a knife much better, it's silent and is much easier to get a hold of.
Also this assumes that you wont be able to get a gun if they're restricted or illegal which blatantly false.
@crazypants88 if guns are not allowed its much harder to get a gun; thats a fact. it is also easier to kill more people with a gun then a knife. furthermore a gun is less personal then a knife and therefore people would easier kill somebody with a gun then stab someone. all these things are facts.
@23magicme No not necessarily. Do you think the drug cartels in Mexico got their guns legally? No they didn't, gun ownership is heavily regulated in Mexico, yet illegal gun ownership and crime are way up.
If you're just raving lunatic with no regard for your continued freedom than yes a gun is better but not if your goal is not be arrested.
@crazypants88 there is a big difference between mexico and developed coutnries like europe, canada and america. you cannot compare them. mexico does not enforce the law; our countries do.
but dude go ahead and live in your fantasy world; people like you are the reason america is so crazy.. no logical sense. Go ahead and believe its easier to get guns if they are illegal then legal, its impossible that that's the case, but whatever.. Apparently logic and facts are not for you.
Yes, call me illogical while using nothing but bare assertions to support you conclusion despite me referencing the real life situation of a country that has very strict gun laws.
@crazypants88 Okay then i do that as well. Canada, Netherlands, France, UK, Germany, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece, Poland, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Norway, Belgium, Switzerland, Austria, Liechtenstein, Andorra, Luxembourg... Should I go on? They all restricted gun use, enforced it and they ALL have lower crime and death rates due to fire arms and overall. Your turn.
@23magicme all these countries you mentioned are rich countries.and actually they do have lower gun crime but they don't have lower crime and that's what matters. the most heavily armed places i can think of are texas and switzerland they have lower violent crime than anywhere else fact. new york and chicago have very tight gun laws and they have the highest crime in america. you have to talk about crime in general you cant single out gun crime its absurd.
@23magicme you have to talk about violent crime and then see if violent crime is higher in areas with or without guns. not lets talk about gun crime and then see if its higher in areas with or without guns cause obviously it'll be higher. but deep down you know this and you are deliberatley trying to misconstrue the facts so that people will see your comment and say "ban guns". also you cant take america as a whole, there are 50 states all with different laws and level of wealth.
@23magicme "there is a big difference between mexico and developed coutnries like europe, canada and america" Countries like mexico, canada, and America? Mexico and Canada are in America you fucking idiot. America's a continent, and the United States, Mexico, and Canada are countries in North America. Get your fucking facts right before trying to win an argument you'll never win! Take away the rights to own guns, then you take away guns from honest people, who need them for defense.
@23magicme What would the legislation say? How would you raise the money? Where would you put all of them? How would you track down where every single gun is? Would you give the police authority to search every home? What would you do about homemade guns? The vast majority of the country believes in this right. You think you can just wish things away, you're living in a fairy tale. And I remain unconvinced that you have ever illegally purchased a gun in Mexico.
@23magicme And guns help ease the pain of killing on the BATTLEFIELD. If you shoot a gun and kill someone in cold blood you know for sure that you did it. Whereas in a shootout no one can be for sure. Just because you have a gun doesn't mean you are more willing to kill someone. Have you ever even seen a gun in real life? Do you even have anyone close to you that owns one? I doubt it. You are ignorant. This is the only area where someone with no experience can be deemed credible. Funny, right?
@23magicme If you take away the right to own a gun, then honest people won't have guns to defend themselves from criminals who could smuggle them in, and use them. You probably think that every criminal is a high school drop out with low education and a drug addiction. You'd be wrong. A lot of them are fucking smart! They can get the stuff they need by use of black market! You can buy a fucking RPG on the black market for less than 1000 bucks! (Yes, this is a fact)
Stricter regulations usually means a BOOMING black market which translates into even easier access and cheaper prices. Age restrictions, but of course not strangling regulations ensures people don't turn to the black market for weapons, whilst keeping the bare essentials. It's good to have laws but everytime some tragedy happens we dont need a law to fix it, we gotta learn shit happens and government isn't here to wipe our asses n make sure we get no boo boos
@atomicmrpelly Why? You realize if guns were outlawed, only cops and criminals would have them? Sometimes even cops wouldn't be allowed! I wouldn't feel comfortable with that, would you?
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." -Robert A. Heinlein
@hXcDiedWithHitler It's always the same argument from you gun nuts, that the criminals don't care about breaking the law so they would still have guns, but it's just so wrong:
Making guns illegal would make them an awful lot more difficult to get hold of. People would have to go out of their way to get them, which they may not be willing to if it would drastically increase their punishment if they were caught.
Let me quote a quick statistic for you. New Hampshire offers some of the least restrictive gun laws in the nation: no permit is required to open carry and a concealed carry permit is available on a shall issue basis. It has ALSO ranked #1 in the nation for quality of life and livability five years in a row, as well as being the safest state in the country.
@hXcDiedWithHitler Sorry but "Quality of life and livability" WTF is that?! That's not a statistic! How much gun crime is there? Is there more than places where guns are illegal?
In the UK recently a man took a shotgun and shot dead around 8 people. It was huge news, a national tragedy, once in a lifetime kind of thing. Same thing with the shooting in Norway recently. In America that kinda stuff doesn't even make nation news it's so common.
Guns don't make you a killer. KILLING makes you a killer. You can kill someone with a bat or a car, but no one is trying to ban you from driving to a ball game.
@hXcDiedWithHitler Don't be silly. Guns make it incredibly easy to kill people, much easier than it ought to be. Just a pull of a trigger in a moment of passion, without any thought or consideration, and a life is extinguished forever.
@atomicmrpelly What if you miss? or the guy has a gun too? And what if you hit a arm or leg, then you wont exactly die in a matter of minutes. Its just the issue of leveling power between those who have guns and those who don't. I for one would rather keep one on me so that way I at least can defend myself.
@soviethabbo How can you possibly use that as a justification? You look at a small number of law breakers who have highly dangerous weapons with which they can threaten to kill innocent civilians and you think "what should we do about that? hmmm... lets give the civilians guns too, that'll make it safer!" .....
@atomicmrpelly Would you want to point a gun into a crowd of armed people? Fuck no, everyone is out for themselves and common sense says that if everyone has a gun, then you're less likely to shoot someone else, because everyone else would shoot your dumb ass.
Good example. A person who wants to shoot a gun into a crowd of people. Obviously that's a terrible thing which has to be prevented. The solution you are suggesting is to give everybody in the crowd a gun, so that as soon as the first guy shoots, everyone else shoots back. That's how you suggest we reduce the number of shootings.
I am saying that somebody with the express intention of shooting a gun into a crowd of people had probably better not be allowed to have a gun at all.
If anyone believes that police officers are the only ones who should carry guns in public...then you probably haven't had to rely on law enforcement very much. The police are not always available when you need them and even some who are available don't give a shit about you. The law works for those who manipulate their purposes and for the ones who have the funds to use wealthy deceitful lawyers.
@TheCrisisKings But what if he instead of taking your walle,t points a gun at your head, your wife's and your child while your out eating at a resturant? Your killed, along rhefamily, and while your busy being murdered cause you do not exercise your right. I'll be busy pulling my hand gun and atleast fighting for my life. And if I die along with that person, it's still keeps my wife and child alive and I can deal with that. Atleasty wife and child will live to see another day
Yeah , sure thing. Punish the mentally unstable people who committed gun crime... oh wait , you can't cause their DEAD !! Don't punish the girl who GOT the guns for them , or the gun show where she ambled in , put cash in hand and walked out with the means to commit this tradgedy just like that. You're right. Incarcerating the mentally ill while gun manufacturers and dealers act with impunity is the PERFECT solution.
The debate about gun control and crime is irrelevant. Even if somehow gun control reduced crime, why should I accomodate a criminal? It's like negotiating with a terrorist. Why do posters try to justify gun ownership? Americans own firearms because we choose to.
I don't think there's a way you can interpret that in a way which doesn't justify the distribution of firearms. He's saying that people are to blame for gun related incidents and not the weapon itself but the pure fact that guns are so easily obtainable is reason enough for people to have and use them.
If you take a gun away from someone, they might be less impulsive to squeeze their finger and destroy a life. I mean, for what reason does a TECH 9 exsist? Hunting? No. Its to kill people.
@TheCrisisKings And since the state "took" drugs away from people, no one has ever abused drugs. Obviously this is false and guns follow the same principle. Many of the countries with the highest gun violence are the ones who restrict them the most.
You think a criminal who set on killing people is really going to be deterred by the gun he's going to use being illegal?
@crazypants88 But why is it that 9,369 people died in 2010 due to guns. Iceland, Oman, and Luxembourg had none. The UK had 14, Ireland had 12. Why were we responsible for 10% of all gun deaths in 2010. Would much more harm be done if we limit the sale of semi-automatic weapons, and sell handguns and rifles with a small clip size
@TheCrisisKings Correlation =/= causation. The places in the US who tend to have the highest gun crime are where they're restricted the most. California and New York are good examples of this. Why don't you cite the murder rates of countries like Thailand or Mexico? There guns are severly restricted, yet the gun crime there is very high.
"Would much..small clip size" That wouldn't stop them from obtaining them, it doesn't stop the cartels in Mexico from arming themselves.
@crazypants88 Mexico has less gun crime than the US albeit only by 5000. Getting a country the size of Mexico with the high crime rate and low economy to get 2,000 gun deaths a year is still progress. New York has rapidly decreasing gun death rates due to various gun legislations passed. Plus a small clip size WOULD cause less death because: A. Less Bullets B. More Reloading. If you need to defend yourself, you will be a ble too, but you wont have 30+ rounds firing at a rapid rate.
Also your point about home defence only applies in your home. Do you walk around carrying an automatic weapon?
Probably not. So whilst you are out and about that is when you are vunerable to being shot by a crim right?
You might feel safer with a gun tucked under your pillow but personally I feel safer knowing gun crime is rare outside of London.
You can't argue with the stats. UK entire murder rate in one year 650. America something like 30000?
bingofingers 5 hours ago
hmm two replies from the same person, the last one more uhinged than the first. I think I might have touched a nerve.
My point was about murder and I used the UK as a comparison precisely because it has a high crime rate and has the biggest drug crime problem in Europe.
We recently had some large scale riots and the only death was by an automobile.
Logically you should be able to see that guns make bad situations worse. I don't have to keep a gun because the criminals don't carry them.
bingofingers 5 hours ago
Americans see this the wrong way round. The issue isn't whether its the gun or the crazy person who does the killing.
A crazy person with an automatic weapon is far more likely to kill you than one without.
That is why your chance of being murdered in America is hundreds of times that of the UK even though your population is only 4 times.
You seem culturally blinded to the obvious.
Oh and your prison populations are much higher too so I don't thin they are much of a crime deterrent.
bingofingers 23 hours ago
@bingofingers Listen up Liberal Pussy as I lay out the facts:
In YOUR REGION of Western Europe the UK has THE MOST crime
Whereas Switzerland has the least crime in the world
In Switzerland every 18 year old man is conscripted for basic training and afterwards is required to keep their full auto SIG SG 550, service pistol and a certain amount of ammo at home!
In the UK you call the cops like a pansy and wait until the real men show up to take care of you. Then they bang ur wife as you watch!
Jamespot24 19 hours ago
@bingofingers A nicer retort would be
A crazy person with an automatic weapon is far more likely to kill you IF YOU ARE UNARMED
That is why your chance of being murdered in America is higher IF YOU ARE UNARMED
Oh and your prison populations are much higher too so I don't thin they are much of a crime deterrent. But the gun in my house certainly is. In the UK 50% of home invasions happen with the occupant inside the home, in the US only 13%.
Why? Cuz we'll blow ur head off!
;)
Jamespot24 19 hours ago
Every public school should have a gun cabinet of Ar-15's and shotguns, in case of school shooting.
GUNS SAVE LIVES!
jowbowcow 1 day ago
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Drunk drivers kill more a month than guns do in a year. Why isn't alcohol banned? What about the cars the drunks drive? Shall we ban them as well? Making more laws will not help. What WILL help is ENFORCING the laws on the books NOW. When you put a ban on guns, the "bad guys" are the ONLY ones not affected. Do you honestly think a "bad guy" will turn his weapon in once it is banned? People need to get some common sense!
13ECHO20 1 week ago in playlist Gun Control is a Fraud
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13ECHO20 1 week ago in playlist Gun Control is a Fraud
Totally agree
cassie5340 1 week ago
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ZombieDeathRace 1 week ago
Jamespot shut up uk is much more tougher than the us and switerzland why? Because black ppl come hear and raids us do fuck up and get a job
azzerrrr 2 weeks ago
message to americans. you have the right to bear arms. any restrictions on guns are illegal and unconstitutional. no matter what laws they pass. any law which is repugnent to the constitution is nul and void- marbury vs madison. there is no such thing as a illegal gun in america. don't let them take your guns. you have been warned.
GianTheMan91 2 weeks ago
The ones who intend to use the guns surely aren't the ones willing to give them up. Who thinks that? Really?
ohedd 3 weeks ago
Taking away guns to prevent crime is the same as passing things like the patriot act to prevent terrorism.
jneil2007 3 weeks ago 14
@jneil2007 The logic driving gun control proponents is simple: By reducing the quantity of guns in cirulation, the amount of heinous, violent crimes that could be commited would go down. Rico, instead of shooting his cousin Edwardo, may instead just punch him in the face or stab him in the chest.
Samsasrenjet 2 weeks ago
@jneil2007
Actually that's nothing like it.
Let's talk about the facts:
24,000 deaths from handguns in the US in 2009
11 deaths from handguns in the UK in 2009 (which ban them)
Elosization 2 weeks ago
@Elosization Show your data.
jneil2007 2 weeks ago
@Elosization Bc I'm pretty sure that's bulshit.
jneil2007 2 weeks ago
@Elosization Correlation doesn't equal causation.
Crime in the UK has gone consistently up since they made their gun laws more restrictive.
Also majority of the gun crime in the US comes mostly from the states which restrict them the most.
crazypants88 2 weeks ago
@Elosization Switzerland:
At the age of 18 every male is conscripted and given basic military training.
After he is required to keep his full-auto SIG SG 550 at home, his pistol and a specific amount of ammunition.
Wow people with GUNS, must be a blood bath over there right?
WRONG
Switzerland actually has the least amount of crime in the world :)
jowbowcow 2 weeks ago 30
@jowbowcow they are also a Socialist countrry.
kingnat2 1 week ago
@kingnat2 Yeah so? My point was saying that guns don't cause crime! Not to argue economics
jowbowcow 1 week ago
@jowbowcow Yes, guns obviously aren't sentient beings, but they allow for more violent crime to be commited. this isn't a game of semantics, guns DO kill people at the whim of human beings.
kingnat2 1 week ago
@kingnat2 And in countries like Switzerland they appear to lower crime.
Firstly because it give people a sense of personal responsibility
Secondly are you really going to break into a house that has a gun in it
Thirdly because guns in the hands of good people do good things, just like guns in the hands of bad people does bad things
jowbowcow 1 week ago
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@kingnat2 Wrong. They are inanimate objects. They don't kill. If they did, why aren't the guns prosecuted? They do not have the magical power to "allow for more violent crime to be commited." Crimes are committed by people. Not guns.
Coowallsky 1 week ago
@jowbowcow
Switzerland is also a nation of people living in isolated mountains and not metropolis'
@gmancwB
Yes, they do have different populations. However, when we're talking about 24,000 to 11, I'm pretty sure no matter how high you scaled it up it would make a difference. But just for you, I'll do it.
The UK has 62 million people. US has 300 million. So let's multiply the gun deaths from the UK by 5 to put it to a bit over 300 million population. 55 gun deaths compared to 24 thousand.
Elosization 1 week ago
@Elosization Well New York certainly is a metropolis and it has very restrictive gun laws compared to the rest of the US. New York (the state) along with California are the states that restrict guns the most, yet they tend to have the highest crime rates.
Also the UK has seen a steady increase in crime since they've restricted their gun laws. Is it better to die by stabbing than by a gun? Or by any other non-gun related means of killing?
crazypants88 1 week ago
@crazypants88 The homicide rate in the US is still ~5 times higher per capita than in the UK and most western nations. Crime rate overall is 80% vs 85% in favour of the US.
The US does have a shocking homicide rate for a 1st world nation. I appreciate that there are a lot of factors as to why that could be, but it is hard to imagine the highly liberal gun laws not playing a part.
N330AA 1 week ago
@N330AA Well if the liberal gun laws played a part, why don't we see the same happening in other countries with less restrictive gun laws?
And why don't we see the crime reducing effect gun control espouse in countries with very high crime rates, such as Mexico, Thailand or Brazil.
Also like I said, the states that have the highest crime rates in the US tend to be the ones with the most restrictive gun laws.
crazypants88 6 days ago
@crazypants88 So you're going to ignore the very telling comparisons to other western countries, and instead compare yourself to Mexico, Thailand and Brazil - 3 very poor and corrupt countries.
I believe the phrase is "Cherry Picking".
N330AA 6 days ago
@N330AA Rofl I'm cherrypicking? Dude you made no mention of countries with strict gun laws and high crime, which there are more than a few. I'm fully aware of countries with strict gun laws and low crime, I live in one. What I deny is that these two are causal. Examples such as Mexico and Thailand are very clear examples of this.
I'm not cherrypicking by referencing countries which blatantly contradict your contention.
crazypants88 6 days ago
@crazypants88 You will not find worthwhile comparisons in Mexico and Thailand. These countries are poor and very corrupt.
N330AA 6 days ago
@N330AA Ok fair enough, the US doesn't apply then in either since it's not an island...
Yeah, the fact they're poor is irrelevant. If strict gun laws deter crime, why don't they deter crime in poor countries? Also the crime has been on a steady increase in the UK since it made gun laws more restrictive.
crazypants88 6 days ago
@N330AA you have to use the scientific method when doing gun stats. first you need the TOTAL gun deaths. then you need to get the gun deaths SPECIFICALLY in Chicago New York Compton Detroit Boston washington dc. why these citys? they have strict gun controll. you will notice that these six cities gun death rates are nearly identical to the USA in total. and without these six cities the USA has less gun deaths per 100k than the UK. science is your friend not your enemy. now accept the truth
amyhuk 6 days ago
@amyhuk If these cities have identical gun dearth *rates* to the rest of the US? How does the rest of the US have a lower rate? Seems basic maths isn't your friend.
N330AA 6 days ago
@N330AA the rest of the country has lower death rates than those six cities BECAUSE the rest of the country DOESNT RESTRICT GUNS. its ONLY in the citys that guns are restricted from law abiding citizens that gun death rates are high. with very few (statistically almost zero) exceptions
amyhuk 6 days ago
@amyhuk If you restricts guns in small pockets of the country, by definition law abiding citizens are going to have less defence, but criminals won't have (and evidently don't) too much trouble getting guns from other parts of the country where they are in circulation.
The key is to reduce circulation, and efforts to do so would probably have to be made at a federal level.
N330AA 6 days ago
@N330AA Russia has a very high death rate of 15 deaths per 1000 people per year. This is far higher than the world's average death rate of just under 9. The death rate in the U.S. is 8 per 1000 and for the United Kingdom it's 10 per 1000. Alcohol-related deaths in Russia are very high and alcohol-related
amyhuk 5 days ago
@N330AA hmmm...why is the UKs death rate higher than the US?
amyhuk 5 days ago
@amyhuk The death rate means people who die of all things like old age. The homicide rate ie people killing other people is 12 per 100k in Russia, 5 in 100k in the US and 1.23 per 100k in the UK.
N330AA 5 days ago
@N330AA lol so people are dying 20% more in the UK than the United States? must be because of socialized medicine then
amyhuk 5 days ago
@amyhuk Actually the UK has a longer life expectancy than the US. Even though we pay half of what you do for healthcare. Even Cuba has a longer life expectancy than the US.
N330AA 5 days ago
@N330AA not for much longer and our imigration affects our life expectancy avg. when lil johny click clack mumbungi from cameroon comes here with his life expectancy of 31 it lowers our life expectany
amyhuk 5 days ago
@amyhuk Not for much longer? Have you seen the future?
N330AA 5 days ago
@N330AA yes i have and its not very bright. imagine 1984 on crack and steroids (the book not the actual year 1984 which was tops Thatcher Ronald Ray Gun good times good times) plumeting birthrates sky rocketing homicide rates social collapse. infact you should just top yourself right now to avoid all the nastiness
amyhuk 5 days ago
@amyhuk I would think under Obama that's more likely to happen to you guys. RP is your only hope.
N330AA 5 days ago
@N330AA besides have you actually SEEN the demographics of homicide rates in the United States? spoiler alert. over half of the people murdered here are black criminals...being killed by OTHER blacks
amyhuk 5 days ago
@amyhuk I didn't realise blacks were still considered 3/5th of a person.
N330AA 5 days ago
@N330AA 3/5ths has nothing to do with it. the fact is over half of the people murdered here are black criminals being killed by OTHER black criminals. if you dont believe me look up the Brady campaigns statistics on race and gun deaths. (the Brady campaign wants to outlaw all guns like you said so dont say its a conservative propaganda sight. they are as left wing as they come. infact they could make lennin blush they are so socialist)
amyhuk 5 days ago
@amyhuk Whenever did i say i want to outlaw all guns?
N330AA 5 days ago
@N330AA you said "The key is to reduce circulation, and efforts to do so would probably have to be made at a federal level."
amyhuk 5 days ago
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@amyhuk Once against, whenever did i say i want to outlaw all guns? Certainly not in that sentence.
N330AA 5 days ago
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@amyhuk I know I went for too long but, im done lol
Jamespot24 5 days ago
@N330AA a more effective way to lower crime is to arm each and every person and when a criminal steps out of line let the citizenry deal with him as they see fit.
amyhuk 5 days ago
@amyhuk I think that's how slavery caught on so well.
SzlampStudios 5 days ago
@SzlampStudios slavery didnt catch on so well though only 11 states had it.
amyhuk 5 days ago
@amyhuk It still caught on! Fucking hell, the problems with guns are obvious to anyone without the gun, they're the easiest form of terrorism in the modern world. Problem is guns cost money so we'll never have "everyone has guns", but people who can only afford a gun will probably only buy a gun.
People talk about the second ammendment, I don't care about rights. A right is given to us by government. If a government has to give something the people need, then that's not a good government.
SzlampStudios 2 days ago
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@SzlampStudios the right to defend yourself existed BEFORE guns OR govts
amyhuk 2 days ago
@amyhuk Don't need a right to defend yourself.
SzlampStudios 1 day ago
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@SzlampStudios by your logic. if you were walking in the woods and a bear or cougar attacked you. you would have to wait for the govt to give you permission to defend yourself.
amyhuk 2 days ago
@amyhuk That's what I'm saying. Why have a second ammendment?
SzlampStudios 1 day ago
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@SzlampStudios the bill of rights were specifically designed as a check or ballance against the three branches of power. before the bill of rights people were subject to the will of the monarch (hence the term subjects) for example the freedom of religion is in direct response to henry the 8. who forced everyone to join his religion or be beheaded. the 2nd amendment is to keep the govt from getting out of controll like in europe. where millions are killed on a regular basis
amyhuk 1 day ago
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@SzlampStudios if you want to know why we need a 2nd amendment go out and buy a gun. learn to shoot it clean it and be responsible for it. then after two years walk up to the nearest police station and turn it in.
amyhuk 1 day ago
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@SzlampStudios govts love to kill unarmed people when ever the people disagree with their policys. example boston massacre bloody sunday kossovo nazi germany USSR Tudor england cambodia china tanzia
amyhuk 1 day ago
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@SzlampStudios the 2nd and third amendments are to curb the power of govt domination of the people. when people fear their govt you have tyrany. but when the govt fears its people you have liberty TJ
amyhuk 1 day ago
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@SzlampStudios and guns are cheap. a highpoint .380 is $100. that is practically free by todays gas prices. $100 gas lasts two weeks. a gun lasts a lifetime if properly maintained
amyhuk 2 days ago
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@SzlampStudios if you live in the usa then i suggest going out today and buying a gun. it will be the best investment (insurance policy?) you ever made
amyhuk 2 days ago
@SzlampStudios The easiest form of terrorism? Really? Guns terrorize all by themselves? What's more terrifying, a gun by itself, or a criminal with a gun? Guns, by themselves, can't really do anything, so clearly, to be terrifying a terrifying person wanting to do terrible things is most terrifying, gun or not. As for everyone having guns, I only want responsible, law abiding citizens to own them, who, for the most part, are the ones who legally own them now.
jamilleizer 2 days ago
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@jamilleizer im more affraid of my govt than i am a private citizen with a gun. people know how to use their firearms wisely and justly. the govt doesnt. the UK govt sent in their elite paratroopers to kill 14 peacful protesters in 1972. and how many govt employees were killed by protesters in 1972? answer ZERO
amyhuk 2 days ago
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@jamilleizer liberals all have one thing in common. they ABSOLUTELY REFUSE to accept personal responsibility for any of their own actions. they believe that it is somebody elses responsibility to do everything for them. its like they are a class of adult children or something...
amyhuk 2 days ago
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@amyhuk Here's a better stat! 96% of people who are killed with a firearm have been arrested before!
So pretty much everyone killed with guns are criminals being killed by other criminals. You're average 10 yr old kid on the street is not at risk
Just thought I'd help u with this argument
And the people who say "I dont want to ban guns" want to just make so many laws and make it so hard to obtain a firearm that most people will just say "why bother..."
They want less GOOD PEOPLE to have guns.
Jamespot24 5 days ago
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@amyhuk When it comes down to it the early Marxists knew they needed to break down the foundations of society to establish it.
They knew they had to break down people's reliance on God (Churches did the charity), break apart families (have no one to turn to for help) and get rid of a sense of community/nationalism (make people isolated)
Also disarming people is key because then they will need government to step in restrict their rights (London CCTV cams) to "protect them"
Look up Antonio Gramsci
Jamespot24 5 days ago
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@amyhuk Now you can see that many people in the media KGB was heavily involved in the American Media in the 60's-70's
Look up Yuri Bezmenov "Soviet Subversion of the Free Press"
He's an defecting KBG agent, there are some insane things in there!
Pretty much the media has been hijacked by the far-left for a long time. Attacking peoples faith, encouraging promiscuity (breaking apart families), marriage is always portrayed as CRAP in the sitcoms, ect
Also they constantly attack American history
Jamespot24 5 days ago
@N330AA as long as that trend continues who cares what the murder rate is. now if only we can get the hispanics to off each other as well that would be ace
amyhuk 5 days ago
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@N330AA Do you understand how life expectancy is calculated? If not this is a rather poor argument....
I'll give you a lesson. The US has a higher infant mortality rate, but if you are middle class and 10 years old you will have a longer life span than someone middle class in the UK or someone POOR AS FUCK in Cuba.
In roman times life expectancy was 25. Was this cause everyone died when they reached 25 NO! It was because 1/2 the babies died after birth and the other 1/2 lived to 50!understand
Jamespot24 5 days ago
@crazypants88 As for a comparison to the Swiss. Maybe the difference is education. Does that make liberal guns laws not guilty? No. Maybe the difference is culture? Does that make liberal guns laws not guilty? No. If liberal gun laws + poor gun education + poor gun culture/image = 5 times more deaths than other western countries, then all 3 are guilty parties.
N330AA 6 days ago
@N330AA Funny how you accuse me of cherry picking but then cherry pick which one of my arguments to acknowledge. The highest crime rates in the US are by and large the highest in states WITH strict gun laws, not the reverse.
If restrictive gun laws deter crime, then how can this be? Also how can Mexico have criminals armed to the teeth when they restrict guns so heavily?
crazypants88 6 days ago
@crazypants88 I've never argued the crime rate, i've argued the homicide rate. The crime rate in the US is nothing special, the homicide rate is truly spectacular.
N330AA 6 days ago
@N330AA Fair enough but even if we look at the murder rate in the US it's been on a steady decline. Unsurprisingly following many states making their gun laws less restrictive. Even if all of the US had zero gun laws and high crime/murder rate, that in and of itself wouldn't prove anything as correlation doesn't causation.
crazypants88 6 days ago
@N330AA not really 8k in a nation of 312 million? with half of those being against black criminals. look at russias gun homicide rate. its twice ours and they have fewer people. and dont get me started on Mexico. its homicide rate is through the roof and they have one of the worlds most restrictive gun laws
amyhuk 6 days ago
@amyhuk The US homicide rate is ~5 times! that of most other western countries. Again the comparison to poor and hugely corrupt countries like Russia and Mexico is cherry-picking when the rest of the civilized world manages a much lower homicide rate. Australia or Canada might be better comparisons to the US.
N330AA 6 days ago
@N330AA australia and canada COMBINED have 1/6th the population of the united states. so NO they would not be better comparisons. and fuck you and your federal gun nabbing scheme i am not going to be defensless just because some stupid ass liberal fuckwit cant learn the lessons of history
amyhuk 5 days ago
@amyhuk Obviously you would look at the rate and not the total. Surely i don't need to spoon feed that to you.
It's hardly a liberal policy either? Just common sense really.
N330AA 5 days ago
@N330AA no it isnt common sense to disarm yourself before walking into a lions den...quite the opposite infact
amyhuk 5 days ago
@N330AA its death rate PER ONE THOUSAND PEOPLE so the total is irrelevant. the total is less BECAUSE THE POPULATION IS LESS!!!!!! are you fucking brain dead?
amyhuk 5 days ago
@N330AA and the REASON mexico and russia are poverty stricken hell holes is BECAUSE they restrict guns. the only people who have guns in those nations are corrupt officials and criminals.
amyhuk 5 days ago
@amyhuk Mexico and Russia are poor because they don't have guns? I've heard it all now. And you call me brain dead?
N330AA 5 days ago
@N330AA yes mexico and russia are poor because the people dont have guns. the reason people dont have guns is because those govts have a CENTRALIZED govt. and as we all know a centralized govt is easier to corrupt than a de centralized one. and central govts are less efficient than the free market at distributing wealth. therefore and ergo mexico and russia are poor because the people arent allowed to have guns.
amyhuk 5 days ago
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@amyhuk Ok well firstly Mexico and Russia are poor, as well as many african countries because people do not have proper rights, and most importantly there is no rule of law.
With such high government corruption, and the cops on the criminals payroll you're going to have to protect yourself PERIOD
So I agree with you, if every household in Mexico/Russia had a gun there would be much lower crime. And the low crime would help foster economic prosperity
Jamespot24 5 days ago
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jowbowcow 1 week ago
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@ElosizationIf we all lived "in isolated mountains and not metropolis" we would all become better people without the will to kill? the Zurich metropolitan area has 2 million people btw! lol so much for that"no metropolis"
That is so ignorant, firstly all suicides by gun (1/2 of gun deaths in US) would be done through other methods (jumping)
Murders can be done through other methods Darfur had a genocide through machetes! Would it be wrong for people in Darfur to have guns to protect themselves!
jowbowcow 1 week ago
@Elosization When you can find a country with the same socio-economic dynamics as the US, then go ahead and make a comparison, but that isn't the case with the UK.
Coowallsky 1 week ago
@Coowallsky UK and US lives are remarkably similar, both socially and economically.
Big difference is the UK is a small and densely populated island. It's hard to smuggle guns in, and it's easier to police the land as their are less remote areas miles away from a police station.
The Genie is out of the bottle in the US. It'd take decades to eliminate the guns and in that time, the law abiding population would be at a distinct disadvantage.
N330AA 1 week ago
@jowbowcow You are an industrial-strength dumbass. Switzerland is also extremely wealthy for its geographic size and population. They have strong public education and universal healthcare. You give every American male (as they are now) military training and let them keep a SIG SG 550 around, and you can kiss the country goodbye. Anyone who thumbed up this moron needs to be sterilized.
GeneralGuitFiddle 1 week ago
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@GeneralGuitFiddle " industrial-strength" well I wouldn't go that far lol
The point I was making is that guns do not cause crime
They do in fact give people a sense of personal responsibility
Also if you are a criminal you aren't going to break into someone's house if you know they have a gun and know how to use it
Lastly because guns in the hands of good people do good things, just like guns in the hands of bad people does bad things.
There have been many cases where guns have saved lives
jowbowcow 1 week ago
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@GeneralGuitFiddle There are some great video's on the you tube channel "thearmedcitizen" that show many instances in which good people have defended themselves with firearms.
Don't listen to the media, shooting a firearm is way safer than many daily activities such as drinking, smoking, and driving.
jowbowcow 1 week ago
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@GeneralGuitFiddle oh yes because having universal healthcare keeps people from killing each other? WRONG!!! the reason that switzerland has a low crime rate is their arent any blacks in switzerland. if you take blacks out of the equation in the united states the homicide rate drops 50%. and blacks are only 12% of the total population. its race not economics that determines how violent a society is
amyhuk 2 days ago
@Elosization Wow weird Switzerland does have less crime than the UK
WAY LESS
And every household is armed and knows how to use it
They arent scared girly men like those over in the UK haha!
Enjoy ur tea and crumpets bitch!
Jamespot24 2 weeks ago
@Elosization And the UK has higher rates of property crime:
Here's a stat for you in the UK in over 50% of home invasions the occupants are still inside, in the USA its 13%. Why?
Cuz we'll blow ur head off!
Jamespot24 2 weeks ago 6
@Elosization
If you are going to use comparison of numbers between US and UK you might at least have enough sense to use per capita figures. Or do you think that both nations are of approximately equal population?
gmancwB 1 week ago
My mom said that the Ruger Mini 14 was declared illegal here after being used to commit the Utöya terrorist attack.
That sure fixes that problem.
VicariousReality7 3 weeks ago 2
Okai if I agree with the argument of P&T the reason why americans shoot each other like 5000x more than Germans is the fact that they are just more violent and immorall persons. IF I agree with the argument.
Creedinger 3 weeks ago
@Creedinger since they made all guns illegal in britain and everyone who ever registered turned theirs in guess what? gun crime rates have gone up 60%. you know why? cuz criminals never registered there guns in the first place. so by making them illegal you just get them out of the hands of mostly law abiding citizens. and even if you managed to magically make it so the criminals never got those gguns they'd just start smuggling them over the border.
theeonionbagel 3 weeks ago
People are naturally violent. This is a fact. Getting rid of guns would never stop said fact. The world is just fucked up.
falloutforever88 4 weeks ago
If guns are outlawed, only outlaws would have guns
TheReggaeMortis 1 month ago
"dont punish the gun"
haha perfect.
adulby 1 month ago
True. But don't you think it is easier to kill somebody with a gun if you can buy one, then with your bare hands because you can't get a gun because they are illegal?
Look at the deaths in America due to firearms, compare this to the numbers of countries that banned guns.
As expected, a lot more Americans died then any of the other countries.
Because you can't use what isn't there.
23magicme 1 month ago
@23magicme Look at gun related crime and deaths in countries like Mexico, Thailand and Brazil. All restrict guns heavily, especially Mexico and Thailand, yet they have very high gun crimes. How could that be?
Because guns can be provided via the black market, thereby ignoring any law that says one can't have guns.
crazypants88 1 month ago
@crazypants88 true, but that is due to corruption, drugs and poor living standards. When you look at countries that actually enforce their laws and arent corrupt, such as the european countries, canada (you know, all the western world) you'll find the numbers much, much lower then countries that do allow guns.
And saying its still bad because of the black market is a bad example, because that would still be a lower number then legalizing it xD
23magicme 1 month ago
@23magicme Right and what enables crime even further? Victims who are, by law, restricted from defending themselves.
And yes I fully concede that there are countries with strict gun laws and low crime rates, I live in one of them, one of the lowest crime rates in the world.
What I deny is that strict gun laws are causal to the low crime rates.
Mexico and Thailand prove that, for if it were causal they'd have comparable rime rates as the countries you alluded to earlier.
crazypants88 4 weeks ago
@crazypants88 i am not talking about crime, i am talking about deaths. You agree with me it is easier to kill somebody with a gun then a knife? You agree that if i have a knife i might kill 10 ppl before i get stopped, and with a gun 20 or more? Because really, if you think it will be just as easy to commit a crime or kill someone with a gun as without one you are truely retarded.
23magicme 3 weeks ago
@23magicme No I don't necessarily agree with that. If you're raving lunatic with no regard for your or other people's safety, then yeah a gun is ideal, but if you're trying not get caught and you only intend to kill oner or few people, a knife much better, it's silent and is much easier to get a hold of.
Also this assumes that you wont be able to get a gun if they're restricted or illegal which blatantly false.
crazypants88 3 weeks ago
@crazypants88 if guns are not allowed its much harder to get a gun; thats a fact. it is also easier to kill more people with a gun then a knife. furthermore a gun is less personal then a knife and therefore people would easier kill somebody with a gun then stab someone. all these things are facts.
23magicme 3 weeks ago
@23magicme No not necessarily. Do you think the drug cartels in Mexico got their guns legally? No they didn't, gun ownership is heavily regulated in Mexico, yet illegal gun ownership and crime are way up.
If you're just raving lunatic with no regard for your continued freedom than yes a gun is better but not if your goal is not be arrested.
No none of these things are facts.
crazypants88 3 weeks ago
@crazypants88 there is a big difference between mexico and developed coutnries like europe, canada and america. you cannot compare them. mexico does not enforce the law; our countries do.
but dude go ahead and live in your fantasy world; people like you are the reason america is so crazy.. no logical sense. Go ahead and believe its easier to get guns if they are illegal then legal, its impossible that that's the case, but whatever.. Apparently logic and facts are not for you.
23magicme 3 weeks ago
@23magicme Mexico DOES enforce it...
Yes, call me illogical while using nothing but bare assertions to support you conclusion despite me referencing the real life situation of a country that has very strict gun laws.
crazypants88 3 weeks ago
@crazypants88 Okay then i do that as well. Canada, Netherlands, France, UK, Germany, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece, Poland, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Norway, Belgium, Switzerland, Austria, Liechtenstein, Andorra, Luxembourg... Should I go on? They all restricted gun use, enforced it and they ALL have lower crime and death rates due to fire arms and overall. Your turn.
23magicme 3 weeks ago
@23magicme Actually the UK has seen an steady increase in crime since it tightened it's gun laws.
Also Switzerland has very high gun ownership rates and fairly loose gun laws.
But the rest I'll concede have low crime and strict gun laws.
But that doesn't really prove anything, correlation doesn't equal causation.
If strict gun laws did correlate with lower crime, why doesn't it happen Mexico, Thailand etc.
crazypants88 3 weeks ago
@23magicme all these countries you mentioned are rich countries.and actually they do have lower gun crime but they don't have lower crime and that's what matters. the most heavily armed places i can think of are texas and switzerland they have lower violent crime than anywhere else fact. new york and chicago have very tight gun laws and they have the highest crime in america. you have to talk about crime in general you cant single out gun crime its absurd.
GianTheMan91 2 weeks ago
@23magicme you have to talk about violent crime and then see if violent crime is higher in areas with or without guns. not lets talk about gun crime and then see if its higher in areas with or without guns cause obviously it'll be higher. but deep down you know this and you are deliberatley trying to misconstrue the facts so that people will see your comment and say "ban guns". also you cant take america as a whole, there are 50 states all with different laws and level of wealth.
GianTheMan91 2 weeks ago
@23magicme "there is a big difference between mexico and developed coutnries like europe, canada and america" Countries like mexico, canada, and America? Mexico and Canada are in America you fucking idiot. America's a continent, and the United States, Mexico, and Canada are countries in North America. Get your fucking facts right before trying to win an argument you'll never win! Take away the rights to own guns, then you take away guns from honest people, who need them for defense.
nuggetking1012 2 weeks ago
@23magicme What would the legislation say? How would you raise the money? Where would you put all of them? How would you track down where every single gun is? Would you give the police authority to search every home? What would you do about homemade guns? The vast majority of the country believes in this right. You think you can just wish things away, you're living in a fairy tale. And I remain unconvinced that you have ever illegally purchased a gun in Mexico.
Paniro123 3 weeks ago
@23magicme And guns help ease the pain of killing on the BATTLEFIELD. If you shoot a gun and kill someone in cold blood you know for sure that you did it. Whereas in a shootout no one can be for sure. Just because you have a gun doesn't mean you are more willing to kill someone. Have you ever even seen a gun in real life? Do you even have anyone close to you that owns one? I doubt it. You are ignorant. This is the only area where someone with no experience can be deemed credible. Funny, right?
Paniro123 3 weeks ago
@23magicme If you take away the right to own a gun, then honest people won't have guns to defend themselves from criminals who could smuggle them in, and use them. You probably think that every criminal is a high school drop out with low education and a drug addiction. You'd be wrong. A lot of them are fucking smart! They can get the stuff they need by use of black market! You can buy a fucking RPG on the black market for less than 1000 bucks! (Yes, this is a fact)
nuggetking1012 2 weeks ago
@23magicme It's not the guns... it's the retarded ass people here.
dukedase7 4 weeks ago
@23magicme
Yeah, that is why criminals in britain are using knives instead.
VicariousReality7 3 weeks ago
Stricter regulations usually means a BOOMING black market which translates into even easier access and cheaper prices. Age restrictions, but of course not strangling regulations ensures people don't turn to the black market for weapons, whilst keeping the bare essentials. It's good to have laws but everytime some tragedy happens we dont need a law to fix it, we gotta learn shit happens and government isn't here to wipe our asses n make sure we get no boo boos
IzaFaqat 1 month ago
@Yokazuna418 By restricting laws on purchasing it.
88RBack 1 month ago
How do u punish a gun u fucking idiot!!!!
yokazuna418 1 month ago
Think about it. If you're a criminal; would you be comfortable knowing that everyone on the street has a pistol on them?
kop4321 1 month ago
Wow I respected Penn & Teller until I saw this.
atomicmrpelly 1 month ago
@atomicmrpelly Why? You realize if guns were outlawed, only cops and criminals would have them? Sometimes even cops wouldn't be allowed! I wouldn't feel comfortable with that, would you?
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." -Robert A. Heinlein
hXcDiedWithHitler 1 month ago
@hXcDiedWithHitler It's always the same argument from you gun nuts, that the criminals don't care about breaking the law so they would still have guns, but it's just so wrong:
Making guns illegal would make them an awful lot more difficult to get hold of. People would have to go out of their way to get them, which they may not be willing to if it would drastically increase their punishment if they were caught.
atomicmrpelly 1 month ago
@atomicmrpelly
Let me quote a quick statistic for you. New Hampshire offers some of the least restrictive gun laws in the nation: no permit is required to open carry and a concealed carry permit is available on a shall issue basis. It has ALSO ranked #1 in the nation for quality of life and livability five years in a row, as well as being the safest state in the country.
hXcDiedWithHitler 1 month ago
@hXcDiedWithHitler Sorry but "Quality of life and livability" WTF is that?! That's not a statistic! How much gun crime is there? Is there more than places where guns are illegal?
In the UK recently a man took a shotgun and shot dead around 8 people. It was huge news, a national tragedy, once in a lifetime kind of thing. Same thing with the shooting in Norway recently. In America that kinda stuff doesn't even make nation news it's so common.
atomicmrpelly 1 month ago
@atomicmrpelly
Guns don't make you a killer. KILLING makes you a killer. You can kill someone with a bat or a car, but no one is trying to ban you from driving to a ball game.
hXcDiedWithHitler 1 month ago
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atomicmrpelly 1 month ago
@hXcDiedWithHitler Don't be silly. Guns make it incredibly easy to kill people, much easier than it ought to be. Just a pull of a trigger in a moment of passion, without any thought or consideration, and a life is extinguished forever.
atomicmrpelly 1 month ago
@atomicmrpelly What if you miss? or the guy has a gun too? And what if you hit a arm or leg, then you wont exactly die in a matter of minutes. Its just the issue of leveling power between those who have guns and those who don't. I for one would rather keep one on me so that way I at least can defend myself.
soviethabbo 1 month ago
@soviethabbo How can you possibly use that as a justification? You look at a small number of law breakers who have highly dangerous weapons with which they can threaten to kill innocent civilians and you think "what should we do about that? hmmm... lets give the civilians guns too, that'll make it safer!" .....
atomicmrpelly 1 month ago
@atomicmrpelly Would you want to point a gun into a crowd of armed people? Fuck no, everyone is out for themselves and common sense says that if everyone has a gun, then you're less likely to shoot someone else, because everyone else would shoot your dumb ass.
soviethabbo 1 month ago
@soviethabbo
Good example. A person who wants to shoot a gun into a crowd of people. Obviously that's a terrible thing which has to be prevented. The solution you are suggesting is to give everybody in the crowd a gun, so that as soon as the first guy shoots, everyone else shoots back. That's how you suggest we reduce the number of shootings.
I am saying that somebody with the express intention of shooting a gun into a crowd of people had probably better not be allowed to have a gun at all.
atomicmrpelly 1 month ago
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CptSpauIding 1 month ago
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crazypants88 1 month ago
@crazypants88 wait, no
CptSpauIding 1 month ago
If anyone believes that police officers are the only ones who should carry guns in public...then you probably haven't had to rely on law enforcement very much. The police are not always available when you need them and even some who are available don't give a shit about you. The law works for those who manipulate their purposes and for the ones who have the funds to use wealthy deceitful lawyers.
gatesofhell1981 1 month ago
@TheCrisisKings But what if he instead of taking your walle,t points a gun at your head, your wife's and your child while your out eating at a resturant? Your killed, along rhefamily, and while your busy being murdered cause you do not exercise your right. I'll be busy pulling my hand gun and atleast fighting for my life. And if I die along with that person, it's still keeps my wife and child alive and I can deal with that. Atleasty wife and child will live to see another day
SSshane6d9 1 month ago
@SSshane6d9
If the guy's intention was to steal your wallet then he wouldn't need to shoot you if you didn't have a gun, he probably wouldn't even need a gun.
If his intention was to kill you, why has he been allowed to obtain a gun?
In neither scenario does giving you or anyone else a gun help.
atomicmrpelly 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@SSshane6d9
If the guy's intention was to steal your wallet then he wouldn't need to shoot you if you didn't have a gun, he probably wouldn't even need a gun.
If his intention was to kill you, why has he been allowed to obtain a gun?
In neither scenario does giving you or anyone else a gun help.
atomicmrpelly 1 month ago
Yeah , sure thing. Punish the mentally unstable people who committed gun crime... oh wait , you can't cause their DEAD !! Don't punish the girl who GOT the guns for them , or the gun show where she ambled in , put cash in hand and walked out with the means to commit this tradgedy just like that. You're right. Incarcerating the mentally ill while gun manufacturers and dealers act with impunity is the PERFECT solution.
torgo4ever 1 month ago
The debate about gun control and crime is irrelevant. Even if somehow gun control reduced crime, why should I accomodate a criminal? It's like negotiating with a terrorist. Why do posters try to justify gun ownership? Americans own firearms because we choose to.
rmstorms 1 month ago
That guy at the end is why every other country thinks the usa is stupid.
andyroo2540 1 month ago
@andyroo2540 Well reasoned arguments are the reason people think the US is stupid?
crazypants88 1 month ago
@crazypants88 "don't punish the gun."
I don't think there's a way you can interpret that in a way which doesn't justify the distribution of firearms. He's saying that people are to blame for gun related incidents and not the weapon itself but the pure fact that guns are so easily obtainable is reason enough for people to have and use them.
andyroo2540 1 month ago
If you take a gun away from someone, they might be less impulsive to squeeze their finger and destroy a life. I mean, for what reason does a TECH 9 exsist? Hunting? No. Its to kill people.
TheCrisisKings 1 month ago
@TheCrisisKings And since the state "took" drugs away from people, no one has ever abused drugs. Obviously this is false and guns follow the same principle. Many of the countries with the highest gun violence are the ones who restrict them the most.
You think a criminal who set on killing people is really going to be deterred by the gun he's going to use being illegal?
crazypants88 1 month ago
@crazypants88 Did I say it should be illegal?
TheCrisisKings 1 month ago
@TheCrisisKings Well not explicitely, but even just restricting some people's access to guns commits the same fallacy.
crazypants88 1 month ago
@crazypants88 But why is it that 9,369 people died in 2010 due to guns. Iceland, Oman, and Luxembourg had none. The UK had 14, Ireland had 12. Why were we responsible for 10% of all gun deaths in 2010. Would much more harm be done if we limit the sale of semi-automatic weapons, and sell handguns and rifles with a small clip size
TheCrisisKings 1 month ago
@TheCrisisKings Correlation =/= causation. The places in the US who tend to have the highest gun crime are where they're restricted the most. California and New York are good examples of this. Why don't you cite the murder rates of countries like Thailand or Mexico? There guns are severly restricted, yet the gun crime there is very high.
"Would much..small clip size" That wouldn't stop them from obtaining them, it doesn't stop the cartels in Mexico from arming themselves.
crazypants88 1 month ago
@crazypants88 Mexico has less gun crime than the US albeit only by 5000. Getting a country the size of Mexico with the high crime rate and low economy to get 2,000 gun deaths a year is still progress. New York has rapidly decreasing gun death rates due to various gun legislations passed. Plus a small clip size WOULD cause less death because: A. Less Bullets B. More Reloading. If you need to defend yourself, you will be a ble too, but you wont have 30+ rounds firing at a rapid rate.
TheCrisisKings 1 month ago