Amen brother! I came to somewhat different conclusions on my path to Atheism from Christianity, but similar reasons. Christians DO lie BUT it is what they lie about that deconverted me. Wanting to convert people because they actually care about the person-TOTAL LIE. They are doing that because they don't want to lose their salvation. Sure, the Christian will NEVER believe that, but deep down inside I ALWAYS felt like that when I was a Christian.
Power loop's and NLP?.. "The Blackjack rule states that a hypnotic suggestion should be recurring 21 times in order for the procedure to take root in a persons unconscious mind to the point where the suggestion is to grow and produce results." It also say's to use the word "you" up to 20 times in a single paragraph. Talk about imposing ones beliefs.
i love satan.He is like a totally a cool guy. I met Jesus too, he didn't hold his booze as well as the dark lord, but his weed was killer shit. Can't I l love both?
Well, its a shame im not exactly paying attention to your specific and personal way on how to deal with the planet.
In short, stop whining if you dont want to come off as a lookieme, im so intemelectual because i know a few smartiepant-words and introduce myself as a wannabegoody 2 shoes without paying attention to what its really about
@sonykroket I guess your intemelectual smartiepant-words comment calling Davidbelieves a dipshit is irrelevant now since he has removed the comment where he misspelled argument.
@sonykroket Its atheists like you that make theists less likely to listen to atheists arguments. I addressed David's arguments and didn't resort to a unproductive ad hominem.
@sonykroket Well you didn't address any of Davids non-sense(I agree). Ad hominems are also non-sense and are usually used by people who can't use reasoning to actually address a comment(which judging by Davids comment has the type of non-sense you would expect an ad- hominem from). You could actually have tried addressing Davids comment, & forget about the simple spelling mistake "arguement" or just not bother.
@Davidbelieves So there are no Christians who lie about things relative or contrary to their faith? If it was demonstrated that Christians lie about such subjects. Then "This arguements are bogus. Nothing to prove his arguement at all." would also be a lie do you care to tread there?
No God exists, but I do want to believe in one. It's like saying I know I'll never be a millionaire, but I would still like to have millions of dollars.
@Mectrixctic Not really because no matter how hard one works for it. If there was no god it's never a possibility. On the other hand although in some cases it may be nearly impossible to become a millionaire its still possible.
You are talking about 2 billion people and watered you religion is is the bad religion why did Jesus appear many times we believe in him no one said wat are you saying so please do not only say about Christians anyone I ensure you anyone would say yes because we are afraid from god he is the almighty so anything to say? ......
Love this series, but I can't help the assertion that you think that everyday christian LIE as if they have an agenda, Christian are just sadly horribly and stubbornly ignorant through almost a lifetime of religious upbringing, a LIE would imply that they know the truth but tell something else for some reason, I highly doubt any but a tiny fraction of people would believe in religion if they really knew
I have skeptically looked through many reasonings for a God, and for the absent of God.I now believe through the evidence I have found that there is one. "Christians lie" would be like saying "Athiests lie" "because I grew up with lying Athiests" Don't base fact on external influences that effected YOU.How bias. I'm still waiting for you to attack the New Revised Testament.Oh and before you do,try bible studies or again,I can reccommend university standard books, rather than your basic knowledge
@BeatLab10 . "I have skeptically looked through many reasonings for a God, and for the absent of God"
Well done, you've managed to use Lie # 11 and imply Lie #4 is a single sentence. Maybe this helps you understand what I meant by "Christians lie." I meant that it is apparently impossible for any Christian to defend his beliefs without almost immediately saying something dishonest, as you have just done.
But all that can be ignored, if you can offer any evidence at all for your god. Can you?
@Not1delusion ohk I realised that no matter what I say,you won't take any of it in because ur decision has been made final by yourself.However I most certainly have looked incredibly hard into both sides,how could you seriously throw out ur miniscule judement of me and my studies? and you ignored the rest of my comment. Or avoided it, as of yet I'm not sure.Oh and you saying "your god" would be incorrect as I "know" (notice quotation marks) that I have a "universal God".You just seem to arragent
@BeatLab10 "I realised that no matter what I say,you won't take any of it in because ur decision has been made final by yourself"
Really? Because to me, and everyone who reads these comments, it will look like I explicitly asked you what evidence you had for your god and you refused to offer any.
You're eager to talk about how hard you've thought and accuse others of bias / not thinking, but you're very reluctant to say what the evidence for your god is. I wonder why.
@Not1delusion Great videos. I recently abandoned Catholicism after the many sundays I was force-fed (brainwashed) some fairy tale that COMPLETELY contradicted what I was learning at school. While my Physics and Chemisty teacher had evidence, my Catholic teachers had the bible. I choice the evidence
1.It was logically right to do so and made sense.
2. If I head the story of Noah or Jesus one more time I was gonna murder someone with a fork. Just kidding but you get the point.
@DeathlyDavid Catholicism is garbage. It's actually more satanic than anything else. True Biblical Christianity is not a religion but really a relationship with a loving God. The purpose of the 10 commandments was so that people would recognize they cannot do them and see their need for a savior. All you need to do is realize you are guilty before God for breaking the Law, trust in your heart that Jesus Christ was the full payment for your sins and that God raised Him in glory 3 days later.
@DeathlyDavid That's an abbreviated version but the Catholic Church perverted nearly everything important in the Bible. You need to trust that Jesus' innocent blood cleanses you from your own sins. Without Jesus no man can be justified before God and He is just so He has to punish you. If you truly accept Jesus Christ in your heart as the solution to the sin problem then you are saved and are declared righteous in God's sight! There's nothing we can do to earn God's love. That's nonsense.
@DeathlyDavid Also keep in mind that evidence is never neutral. Evidence is good but it all depends what lens you are looking through. Many core scientists were Christians or at least acknowledged the existence of a god. The God of the Bible is the one true God. Design implies a designer! The order of our universe cannot be explained by random probability. If you are interested in more (and deeper) information then message me and i'll be more than happy to provide it. God bless!
People do answer 'YES.' William Lane Craig, has as video out wherein he did answer yes. This should trouble those who, in debating him, have run across the 'true believer syndrome.' Whether or not he is proven wrong, he bases his beliefs on personal experience. He places experiential belief over the facts of logic and truth. Please get the word out, don't debate people who don't even want to listen.
Sir, I noticed that your annotation for this video still links to the old version of the first lie. I am wondering if this was done intentionally or an oversight after you created the newer version.
Many people lie, religious people and non-religious people. I know one religious person that does not lie to others about their religion (as far a can tell). I take to mean a lie is to tell non-truths they know to be non-truths. The rare times I ask, she tells me what she believes to be true as if it was true. The only "evidence" she offers is that she feels it in her heart. I believe this to be a truth not a lie. Ignorance of the non-truth teller can mean they are not a lair.
This strikes me as a false dichotomy. I will agree that all christians lie (to themselves or others), but the majority of them fall in between the two extremes which you present. The would answer "no", but they are not as skeptical and/or free thinking as you imply.
There's only one Everything, and either God is Everything, or Everything is bigger and more powerful than God. Since God must be all powerful, then God must be Everything. If God==Everything, then Science is the study of God and Evolution is God's mechanism of creation. Those who deny Evolution therefore are denying God's creation and are blasphemous.
Most of the lies are hand me downs from ages past. Its complicated , but the Bible is true. Trouble is, most don't posses the capacity to fully understand it , or they don't care to.
Well, this really depends to some degree on how you interpret this question.
If I had a positive diagnosis for cancer, I would *accept* the diagnosis, yet I could still honestly say that I would still *want to believe* that I was healthy.
One might still "want to believe" a thing and still be willing to accept, given the evidence, that the contrary is true.
So while I understand the point, the question hasn't really been ideally phrased.
I'm an atheist I always been one and I'll always be one. I mean out of all religions I never have anybody force their religion down me other than christians I study why they say we should believe in god you know just to figure out why are people the way they are or chose to be and I can tell you the bible is wrong it's all lies. >_> Why is it only the christians that keep forcing us to believe an "invisible man" in the sky? Seriously . . . All religion is is an excuse away from the truth.
How do they force you? Did Christians tie you to a bed, then glue your eyes and place an open Bible in front of you for days without feeding you? Did they enter you home forcefully while pointing a gun to your head and forcing you to pray in Jesus' name? Did they kidnap your wife and children and then called you saying: "You have 5 days to go public and pray in front of the cameras Our Lord's prayer, 'Our Father', or your family will die." You Atheists are drama queens. Annoying silly Atheists!
@MoooHamMad Don't generalize. You've seen one dramatic atheist, but that doesn't mean they all are dramatic. Also, what he's saying is that Christians force their beliefs on people by saying "If you disagree, you're going to burn forever." That's not really giving you a choice, is it?
1) Mr. Fred, your argument makes no logic or sense. You as an Atheist don't believe in God, Satan, Heaven, or Hell. If your only argument against Christians is that they force their beliefs on you because they threaten you with hell (which you don't believe), then you really have nothing and haven't proved at all that they forced you to believe. Why?
2) Because it's like a Muslim saying to a Christian: "You don't believe in Muhammad who is the last prophet, so Allah will burn your skin forever in hell with scalding water and regrow your skin just to be burned again and again and again" to which Christians answer back with a big laugh! Or like a child trying to scare an adult with the "monster hiding in the closet". To finish this,read carefully Bible. Hell is darkness, death & being aware of your separation from God forever. Have a nice day!
3) I invite you & everyone else reading this comment to visit my video the Evolution Hoax & comment on it. We can have a discussion of the arguments presented on the video & your ideas will be heard & challenged.
Also, if you or any other person gets too nasty & insulting when unable to refute the arguments presented, then expect to be blocked, like it happened to drama queen
thestunnedninja. Keep it like human adults, not like zoo apes. Oh wait, I forgot that Atheists believe that they're...
Man you get dumber and dumber every comment you leave. YOU believe that we think that. Only an uneducated moron believes that. I am sure you have been told before that we dont come from apes. We share an ancestor. This is proven through our genetics. We are related wether you like to think so or not! You cant get around it. But you have shown that this is the type of conversation you have on your channel. Thanks for proving that. Thanks for coming out!
MoooHamMad: It has been shown and scientifically proved that tomatoes share many genomic regions similar to genomic regions in human DNA. Should I also say that it's undeniable that we are tomatoes? Lol, after all, "it is in your genes. It is undeniable". Also, do you know that mudworms share almost 60% of our DNA? So, does that gives me the right to call you a maggot? If I do, don't get angry at me then... it's so easy to defeat Atheists!
I love it. Keep writing this crap. You are proving your stupidity all on your own. Tomatoes share geans with humans! Cucumbers share geans with lobsters! Now you are getting it. That is the whole idea. It is just one in the many proofs of evolution. Us sharing 98% identical d.n.a with chimps shows a close relation. Would you be dumb enough to actually post that tomatoe statement asfact? Why does it anger you that you are an ape? If you dont believe that evolution is true, then what do you think?
@thestunnedninja No, I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that tomatoes are suitable for eating because they are so similar. But the way you asked the question says a lot about how you think. You put the cart before the horse. The universe isn't as it is so that we can be exactly as we are- We are as we are because we come from this universe.
I think that maybe you are confused. The comment that you replied to is in quotations. I think you misread the comment. Dont be fooled by my ninja jesus. Look at my channel.
"Should I also say that it's undeniable that we are tomatoes? Lol, after all, "it is in your genes. It is undeniable" This was a quote from the moron i was debating with.
"Should I also say that it's undeniable that we are tomatoes? Lol, after all, "it is in your genes. It is undeniable" You think you are funny saying this. But it really highlites your lack of knowledge on the subject and your stupidity!
@MoooHamMad That's not my only argument against them, but it means that people do immoral things like that it the name of Christianity. I shouldn't need to type up a whole argument against Christianity - there are plenty of videos here on YouTube that do that. You can go and look them up yourself if you really care, but honestly, I think that you like to persist in your delusions even when fact contradicts them.
5 + 5 = 10. You cant even add. Look 7 posts before the one you failed! If you have no idea what i am talking about you are dumber than i suspected! Mr.MOORON has proven to be a liar. He will only spew christiantologists propoganda bull shit. If you go to his channel or videos and say something that makes him look like the moron he is he will censor you. It is a waste of time to have a conversation with this turd!
"Here it is..... christians lie, they lie about atheism, they lie about belief, they lie about lack of belief, they lie about evidence, they lie about faith, they lie about just about everything that has anything to do with their religion and this should trouble you". I know it troubles me. It is almost amazing how much this video has in common with you. It is also amazing a day after i accused you of being this, that this is where i bump into you. HAHAHA.
Mr. DramaQueenNinja, once again, I didn't delete any of your comments. The fact that you're following me around when I made clear to you that I don't want to have anything to do with you anymore shows that you're delusional, compulsive liar, paranoid schizophrenic, obsessive, hateful, dumb & bitter to the end. To think that you ended up with cheap insults because you couldn't defeat my arguments on my video, The Evolution Hoax, reveals tons about your character. Now you can go on a rant rampage.
Nice try! I came at you with many good questions. NONE of wich you answered. When i first stumbled upon your garbage a few months back i tore holes in your first video. You never even replied. It is because if you opened up any low grade science book you would have seen that you were wrong. Following you? Funny how you commented on this video after i had it up on my channel. The trail of deceipt follows you everywhere you go.
And yes. "delusional, compulsive liar, paranoid schizophrenic, obsessive, hateful, dumb & bitter to the end". This is the perfect description of what type of person you are. You can omit paranoid schizophrenic. I dont know you that well. But you have demonstrated all of the others. You can include censoring coward. You were beaten with facts and intellectually smashed. I dont blame you for censoring me. If someone made me look like a moron i would have silenced them too! Good game!
I agree that it is important to expose Christian lies. But your question is ambiguous. Personally, I would still like to believe in a benevolent God, even though the concept is absurd. So I would have to answer "Yes". I want to believe, but nothing would make me do so & I certainly wouldn't hypocritically proselytise. The urge to believe in God is a deep, instinctive drive that has emerged from our psychological evolution.
My previous comment plus magick205's have already answered your question. I'll happily expand on this if you are genuinely interested in exploring this issue.
It is difficult to phrase the video's question in a meaningful way. "If no God existed, would you still believe in one?" is possibly better, but still doesn't really get to the root of it.
After analyzing more and reviewing a false dichotomy I definitely understand what you and magick205 are saying. Thanks for the offer to explain though.
Hi all. I agree that the question is a bit ambiguous. But as you've also acknowledged, it's tricky to ask it properly without being ambiguous. I remain open to suggestions though, and thanks for watching.
Interesting, but false dicotomy. The question is would I want to believe rather than would I believe in spite of evidence to the contrary. The idea of a benevolent deity is very comforting, as we all look for someone to care for us in an otherwise cold world. You ask a very leading question and then impose an answer. How is this different from any of the arguments given by a YECer that if objective morals exist then 'god" must exist as the source?
based on any faith in gods or any other non supernatural life view,
leads a more reproductively fit life than the other
and so wins out in generations to come.
In general, I suppose the atheists are going to be replaced by believers in a few generations unless they start seeing their reproduction as sacred and imperative.
Exponentially more species have become extinct than have not. We may well be on the path of destruction because of religion. ("we" as in humans, not any particular race/culture)
Interesting question, but your 'fact' isn't a fact at all, it's just an opinion. You state that all christians lie without providing any evidence. It's also a futile statement as everyone lies. Which means you lie too. You can't single out a group by proclaiming they're liars, but also know thatt you yourself lie too.
You're absolutely right. But what's important is the motivation behind the lie and the intended effect of the lie. I lie to my wife about her weight but I don't lie to her to cover up for an infedelity. I'm assuming he's going to point out harmful lies by christians. The kind of lies only Christians would tell because of the underlying motivations and intentions. Harmful lies.
If by atheist you mean someone who does not hold a belief in gods (nothing less, nothing more), then I don't see how such a person can be a fundamentalist. If you mean they're fundamentalist with respect to other issues, then I have no doubt you're right. After all, left-handed people lie too. And so do baseball fans.
I think you were smart not to respond to the "fundy atheists" comment, mainly because there is no response to that question. Maybe you'll stop using the phrase. It's intellectually dishonest. I'm sure there's a better term to describe close-minded people that are also atheists. Fundamental Christians are clearly defined, atheists are not.
The only "fundamental doctrine" of atheism is "THERE IS NO GOD". There is nothing else. I mean, it is linked to a scientific worldview, but that is about it.
True. But you don't even have to accept science. You could believe in some sort of panspermia or other non-supernatural world view. Raelians are atheists and could also be fundamentalists in their religion but not because of their atheism. I think the person that wrote that was either stupid or being facetious.
They don't believe in gods. That's the definition of atheist. They believe aliens designed us. The aliens say they are the cause of all the religions but aren't gods, they are just like us; humans from another world. The aliens aren't supernatural. rael*dot*org. Myself, I'd rather like the term "atheist" to not hold more definition than needed. Groups like Raelians and scientologists may not entirely be atheists but are narrowly defined as such (scientologists much less so).
LOL. Well, I disagree, not strongly mind you, but I think there's a distinction between a paranormal belief system and a pseudo-scientific one. Fortunately I'm only allowed 500 characters so I'll leave it at that ;>)
I disagree with your questions. It should have been.
" If no god existed, then would you still believe in one?""
Then I would say no.
I do not think that god exist. However, I would still want to belief in one as I know there are benefits in believing in a god, Like a sound feeling that someone is taking care of you.
However, wanting and doing so are two different things. At least they are for me, I wish I could belief in a god but I cannot. As I value truth about all else.
That is nice, but did it say biblical god? The question does not say it was the biblical god. I do not want to belief in a biblical god at all, as he is the biggest asshole in the universe and is even worse then several people that committed genocide. I am talking about the question and just what the question is, nothing else.
it doesnt need to say it is the god of the bible because it is titled "lies christians tell" and then goes on to address only christians. some best case scenario god that you envision is much much different. so yeah the video is slightly flawed in that it should narrow down to the god of the bible. but you don't want to believe in the god he is referring to ... so your point is still valid just not for you specifically
Well the point is pretty valid for me in just the way, that I know of many gods. Several dozen to be correct and I would certainly want to belief in some of them, but I just cannot because the fact is, there is no evidence to support a reason to belief in these gods. The only reason I would have to belief in any god then would to be to put me at ease. Which I cannot do as I am seeker of truth and nothing else even how harsh the truth can be.
Now I understand the point that he is trying to make here. And although i answered no to this question after all i am a non believer, it begs to answer the question is it unethical to choose A? And if it is unethical, please explain why? Cause on an individual basis some people may live happier believing in the lie than knowing the truth.
In my opinion, It's not immoral to believe in something. It's what you do with that belief. It's wrong to fear-monger and harass even if god does exist. Many people also use their beliefs to back-up their intolerance and bigotry.
I guess it could be perceived as a type off dishonesty to believe something you know isn't true, but that depends on the individual person's belief.
It's unfortunate that some people need to believe in god to be happy, but understandable. Not immoral though.
If by morality you mean what is good or bad for man, as I do, then I see that belief is immoral. It is immoral because it clouds, constricts, and misinforms the mind. The people living these lies become teachers, leaders and can very much affect my life, by the decisions they make that are ignorant, wrong or uninformed because of their faith.
im an atheist. but smtimes i want to believe in a god. faith is jst so much easier: smone to blame when thngs go wrng, nevr havng to accept rsponsibility, thnking that there's always a "plan" for misfortunes, not being botherd by the misfortunes of others coz it's part of the "plan".. it's like nevr growing up. smtimes i question the value of living miserably with the truth vs happily with delusion.. then again, it's no longer a choice i can make. i cant jst choose to believe even if i wantd to.
I don't think most Christians lie. I think they are either to lazy or to afraid to look at the truth. Another reason they cling to their religion is, they are also afraid of what other people will think especially family. I've been an atheist since I was 12. Shortly before my mother died when she was 80 she told me that my dad and her didn't believe. By then my dad had already died and I had been an atheist for over 30 years. Ironic isn't it?
Good video. Unfortunately, some of those lies being told to support their beliefs are believed to be true. They reject the criticism because it's pounded into their heads from birth that it is true and that any who try to sway them are just sinners.
Of course, this does not mean that anyone should give up. I for one will always try to make even the most stubborn theist see truth, no matter how many times I fail.
Amen brother! I came to somewhat different conclusions on my path to Atheism from Christianity, but similar reasons. Christians DO lie BUT it is what they lie about that deconverted me. Wanting to convert people because they actually care about the person-TOTAL LIE. They are doing that because they don't want to lose their salvation. Sure, the Christian will NEVER believe that, but deep down inside I ALWAYS felt like that when I was a Christian.
FriendofDaishonin 1 month ago
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Power loop's and NLP?.. "The Blackjack rule states that a hypnotic suggestion should be recurring 21 times in order for the procedure to take root in a persons unconscious mind to the point where the suggestion is to grow and produce results." It also say's to use the word "you" up to 20 times in a single paragraph. Talk about imposing ones beliefs.
gcnoNWO 2 months ago
@Bloblob
A relimuppet deciding whos a "good atheist"or not
That'll be the day
sonykroket 2 months ago
Good video
sonykroket 3 months ago
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Let me ask you a question? Do you believe there's absolute truth?
Hoogz20 4 months ago
@Hoogz20 Do you believe in absolute false?
robvlob 2 months ago
@robvlob Absolute falsehood? Absolutely! lol
Hoogz20 2 months ago
i love satan.He is like a totally a cool guy. I met Jesus too, he didn't hold his booze as well as the dark lord, but his weed was killer shit. Can't I l love both?
Zachfive87 5 months ago
This arguements are bogus. Nothing to prove his arguement at all.
Davidbelieves 6 months ago
Comment removed
sonykroket 3 months ago
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@Davidbelieves
This arguements?
LOL learn how to spell and use proper grammar, dipshit
sonykroket 3 months ago
@sonykroket Address the argument not the grammar.
While I think his argument his flawed I think its counter productive to use ad hominems.
robvlob 2 months ago
@robvlob
Well, its a shame im not exactly paying attention to your specific and personal way on how to deal with the planet.
In short, stop whining if you dont want to come off as a lookieme, im so intemelectual because i know a few smartiepant-words and introduce myself as a wannabegoody 2 shoes without paying attention to what its really about
Aight bish?
sonykroket 2 months ago
@sonykroket I guess your intemelectual smartiepant-words comment calling Davidbelieves a dipshit is irrelevant now since he has removed the comment where he misspelled argument.
robvlob 2 months ago
@robvlob
You sound like a sockpuppet
sonykroket 2 months ago
@robvlob
I respond to someones judgin nonsense while not even able to spell its nonsense correctly
Besides, i care about what you think is relevant as much as i care about a rats ass.
So there ya go
sonykroket 2 months ago
@sonykroket Its atheists like you that make theists less likely to listen to atheists arguments. I addressed David's arguments and didn't resort to a unproductive ad hominem.
robvlob 2 months ago
@robvlob
Haha, what a copout. Thats the best you can do? Using other peoples lack of reasoning?
I dont care what you think, if you post nonsense, you get adressed because of it
sonykroket 2 months ago
@sonykroket Well you didn't address any of Davids non-sense(I agree). Ad hominems are also non-sense and are usually used by people who can't use reasoning to actually address a comment(which judging by Davids comment has the type of non-sense you would expect an ad- hominem from). You could actually have tried addressing Davids comment, & forget about the simple spelling mistake "arguement" or just not bother.
robvlob 2 months ago
@robvlob
Ill decide what i do myself, comprende clown?
sonykroket 2 months ago
@sonykroket Here's a fancy word you probably don't have in your vocabulary 'respect'
robvlob 2 months ago
@robvlob
Stupidity needs to be mocked, not respected
sonykroket 2 months ago
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@Davidbelieves So there are no Christians who lie about things relative or contrary to their faith? If it was demonstrated that Christians lie about such subjects. Then "This arguements are bogus. Nothing to prove his arguement at all." would also be a lie do you care to tread there?
robvlob 2 months ago
No God exists, but I do want to believe in one. It's like saying I know I'll never be a millionaire, but I would still like to have millions of dollars.
Mectrixctic 8 months ago
@Mectrixctic Not really because no matter how hard one works for it. If there was no god it's never a possibility. On the other hand although in some cases it may be nearly impossible to become a millionaire its still possible.
robvlob 2 months ago
@robvlob
Yeah, I guess so.
I wish I could fly.
Mectrixctic 2 months ago
@Mectrixctic That's a better comparison
robvlob 2 months ago
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This video is going on my channel on auto-play.
LifeLibertyLove 8 months ago
You are talking about 2 billion people and watered you religion is is the bad religion why did Jesus appear many times we believe in him no one said wat are you saying so please do not only say about Christians anyone I ensure you anyone would say yes because we are afraid from god he is the almighty so anything to say? ......
MrRoyality40 8 months ago
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GOD IS DEAD AND WE HAVE KILLED HIM!!!
Jakerrrooo 9 months ago
Love this series, but I can't help the assertion that you think that everyday christian LIE as if they have an agenda, Christian are just sadly horribly and stubbornly ignorant through almost a lifetime of religious upbringing, a LIE would imply that they know the truth but tell something else for some reason, I highly doubt any but a tiny fraction of people would believe in religion if they really knew
the Truth and not be Ignorant
Salanmon 9 months ago
@Salanmon ;"blanket attack" on Christians a lil bit, isn't it?
I think so, though I'm an atheist, I know Christians in general aren't bad
uyenst 8 months ago
I have skeptically looked through many reasonings for a God, and for the absent of God.I now believe through the evidence I have found that there is one. "Christians lie" would be like saying "Athiests lie" "because I grew up with lying Athiests" Don't base fact on external influences that effected YOU.How bias. I'm still waiting for you to attack the New Revised Testament.Oh and before you do,try bible studies or again,I can reccommend university standard books, rather than your basic knowledge
BeatLab10 10 months ago
@BeatLab10 . "I have skeptically looked through many reasonings for a God, and for the absent of God"
Well done, you've managed to use Lie # 11 and imply Lie #4 is a single sentence. Maybe this helps you understand what I meant by "Christians lie." I meant that it is apparently impossible for any Christian to defend his beliefs without almost immediately saying something dishonest, as you have just done.
But all that can be ignored, if you can offer any evidence at all for your god. Can you?
Not1delusion 10 months ago 5
@Not1delusion ohk I realised that no matter what I say,you won't take any of it in because ur decision has been made final by yourself.However I most certainly have looked incredibly hard into both sides,how could you seriously throw out ur miniscule judement of me and my studies? and you ignored the rest of my comment. Or avoided it, as of yet I'm not sure.Oh and you saying "your god" would be incorrect as I "know" (notice quotation marks) that I have a "universal God".You just seem to arragent
BeatLab10 10 months ago
@BeatLab10 "I realised that no matter what I say,you won't take any of it in because ur decision has been made final by yourself"
Really? Because to me, and everyone who reads these comments, it will look like I explicitly asked you what evidence you had for your god and you refused to offer any.
You're eager to talk about how hard you've thought and accuse others of bias / not thinking, but you're very reluctant to say what the evidence for your god is. I wonder why.
2nd chance: evidence?
Not1delusion 10 months ago 6
@Not1delusion Great videos. I recently abandoned Catholicism after the many sundays I was force-fed (brainwashed) some fairy tale that COMPLETELY contradicted what I was learning at school. While my Physics and Chemisty teacher had evidence, my Catholic teachers had the bible. I choice the evidence
1.It was logically right to do so and made sense.
2. If I head the story of Noah or Jesus one more time I was gonna murder someone with a fork. Just kidding but you get the point.
DeathlyDavid 7 months ago
@DeathlyDavid Catholicism is garbage. It's actually more satanic than anything else. True Biblical Christianity is not a religion but really a relationship with a loving God. The purpose of the 10 commandments was so that people would recognize they cannot do them and see their need for a savior. All you need to do is realize you are guilty before God for breaking the Law, trust in your heart that Jesus Christ was the full payment for your sins and that God raised Him in glory 3 days later.
Hoogz20 4 months ago
@DeathlyDavid That's an abbreviated version but the Catholic Church perverted nearly everything important in the Bible. You need to trust that Jesus' innocent blood cleanses you from your own sins. Without Jesus no man can be justified before God and He is just so He has to punish you. If you truly accept Jesus Christ in your heart as the solution to the sin problem then you are saved and are declared righteous in God's sight! There's nothing we can do to earn God's love. That's nonsense.
Hoogz20 4 months ago
@DeathlyDavid Also keep in mind that evidence is never neutral. Evidence is good but it all depends what lens you are looking through. Many core scientists were Christians or at least acknowledged the existence of a god. The God of the Bible is the one true God. Design implies a designer! The order of our universe cannot be explained by random probability. If you are interested in more (and deeper) information then message me and i'll be more than happy to provide it. God bless!
Hoogz20 4 months ago
People do answer 'YES.' William Lane Craig, has as video out wherein he did answer yes. This should trouble those who, in debating him, have run across the 'true believer syndrome.' Whether or not he is proven wrong, he bases his beliefs on personal experience. He places experiential belief over the facts of logic and truth. Please get the word out, don't debate people who don't even want to listen.
journeyer58 11 months ago 2
Sir, I noticed that your annotation for this video still links to the old version of the first lie. I am wondering if this was done intentionally or an oversight after you created the newer version.
lhvinny 11 months ago
@lhvinny Completely an oversight. Thanks a lot for pointing it out. I'll fix it later today.
Not1delusion 11 months ago
you've done a really awesome line of videos
GodsArePeopleToo 1 year ago
Many people lie, religious people and non-religious people. I know one religious person that does not lie to others about their religion (as far a can tell). I take to mean a lie is to tell non-truths they know to be non-truths. The rare times I ask, she tells me what she believes to be true as if it was true. The only "evidence" she offers is that she feels it in her heart. I believe this to be a truth not a lie. Ignorance of the non-truth teller can mean they are not a lair.
giveyadadrum 1 year ago
This strikes me as a false dichotomy. I will agree that all christians lie (to themselves or others), but the majority of them fall in between the two extremes which you present. The would answer "no", but they are not as skeptical and/or free thinking as you imply.
clarinetist87 1 year ago
Are the big questions yes or no? I don't think things are so simple. This is rubbish!
williamgivens 1 year ago
Very well put.
tctheunbeliever 1 year ago
"Why would the truth need lies to defend it?"
Absolutely fantastic, beautiful point. Thank you :)
bewarethelizards42 1 year ago
here's another fact: humans lie
FluffyFeralMarmot 1 year ago
@FluffyFeralMarmot Good job Dr. House.
theclinger 11 months ago
There's only one Everything, and either God is Everything, or Everything is bigger and more powerful than God. Since God must be all powerful, then God must be Everything. If God==Everything, then Science is the study of God and Evolution is God's mechanism of creation. Those who deny Evolution therefore are denying God's creation and are blasphemous.
earonesty 1 year ago
Most of the lies are hand me downs from ages past. Its complicated , but the Bible is true. Trouble is, most don't posses the capacity to fully understand it , or they don't care to.
TheIAMINU 1 year ago
Well, this really depends to some degree on how you interpret this question.
If I had a positive diagnosis for cancer, I would *accept* the diagnosis, yet I could still honestly say that I would still *want to believe* that I was healthy.
One might still "want to believe" a thing and still be willing to accept, given the evidence, that the contrary is true.
So while I understand the point, the question hasn't really been ideally phrased.
prodprod 2 years ago
A reasonable point, but I'm unfortunately yet to hear a phrasing that leaves no ambiguity. This has been the best so far.
Not1delusion 2 years ago
I'm an atheist I always been one and I'll always be one. I mean out of all religions I never have anybody force their religion down me other than christians I study why they say we should believe in god you know just to figure out why are people the way they are or chose to be and I can tell you the bible is wrong it's all lies. >_> Why is it only the christians that keep forcing us to believe an "invisible man" in the sky? Seriously . . . All religion is is an excuse away from the truth.
OverInfMagicSpellGod 2 years ago
How do they force you? Did Christians tie you to a bed, then glue your eyes and place an open Bible in front of you for days without feeding you? Did they enter you home forcefully while pointing a gun to your head and forcing you to pray in Jesus' name? Did they kidnap your wife and children and then called you saying: "You have 5 days to go public and pray in front of the cameras Our Lord's prayer, 'Our Father', or your family will die." You Atheists are drama queens. Annoying silly Atheists!
MoooHamMad 2 years ago
@MoooHamMad Don't generalize. You've seen one dramatic atheist, but that doesn't mean they all are dramatic. Also, what he's saying is that Christians force their beliefs on people by saying "If you disagree, you're going to burn forever." That's not really giving you a choice, is it?
FredChipNacho 2 years ago
1) Mr. Fred, your argument makes no logic or sense. You as an Atheist don't believe in God, Satan, Heaven, or Hell. If your only argument against Christians is that they force their beliefs on you because they threaten you with hell (which you don't believe), then you really have nothing and haven't proved at all that they forced you to believe. Why?
MoooHamMad 2 years ago
2) Because it's like a Muslim saying to a Christian: "You don't believe in Muhammad who is the last prophet, so Allah will burn your skin forever in hell with scalding water and regrow your skin just to be burned again and again and again" to which Christians answer back with a big laugh! Or like a child trying to scare an adult with the "monster hiding in the closet". To finish this,read carefully Bible. Hell is darkness, death & being aware of your separation from God forever. Have a nice day!
MoooHamMad 2 years ago
3) I invite you & everyone else reading this comment to visit my video the Evolution Hoax & comment on it. We can have a discussion of the arguments presented on the video & your ideas will be heard & challenged.
Also, if you or any other person gets too nasty & insulting when unable to refute the arguments presented, then expect to be blocked, like it happened to drama queen
thestunnedninja. Keep it like human adults, not like zoo apes. Oh wait, I forgot that Atheists believe that they're...
MoooHamMad 2 years ago
Man you get dumber and dumber every comment you leave. YOU believe that we think that. Only an uneducated moron believes that. I am sure you have been told before that we dont come from apes. We share an ancestor. This is proven through our genetics. We are related wether you like to think so or not! You cant get around it. But you have shown that this is the type of conversation you have on your channel. Thanks for proving that. Thanks for coming out!
thestunnedninja 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
MoooHamMad: It has been shown and scientifically proved that tomatoes share many genomic regions similar to genomic regions in human DNA. Should I also say that it's undeniable that we are tomatoes? Lol, after all, "it is in your genes. It is undeniable". Also, do you know that mudworms share almost 60% of our DNA? So, does that gives me the right to call you a maggot? If I do, don't get angry at me then... it's so easy to defeat Atheists!
thestunnedninja 2 years ago
I love it. Keep writing this crap. You are proving your stupidity all on your own. Tomatoes share geans with humans! Cucumbers share geans with lobsters! Now you are getting it. That is the whole idea. It is just one in the many proofs of evolution. Us sharing 98% identical d.n.a with chimps shows a close relation. Would you be dumb enough to actually post that tomatoe statement asfact? Why does it anger you that you are an ape? If you dont believe that evolution is true, then what do you think?
thestunnedninja 2 years ago
@thestunnedninja lol, I must have been sleepy when I responded earlier. Either that or I responded to the wrong comment. Thanks for clearing that up!
lolaphilologist 1 year ago
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lolaphilologist 1 year ago
@lolaphilologist
Are you saying that we share genes with tomatoes and animals because we consume them?
thestunnedninja 1 year ago
@thestunnedninja No, I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that tomatoes are suitable for eating because they are so similar. But the way you asked the question says a lot about how you think. You put the cart before the horse. The universe isn't as it is so that we can be exactly as we are- We are as we are because we come from this universe.
lolaphilologist 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@lolaphilologist
I think that maybe you are confused. The comment that you replied to is in quotations. I think you misread the comment. Dont be fooled by my ninja jesus. Look at my channel.
"Should I also say that it's undeniable that we are tomatoes? Lol, after all, "it is in your genes. It is undeniable" This was a quote from the moron i was debating with.
thestunnedninja 1 year ago
"Should I also say that it's undeniable that we are tomatoes? Lol, after all, "it is in your genes. It is undeniable" You think you are funny saying this. But it really highlites your lack of knowledge on the subject and your stupidity!
thestunnedninja 2 years ago
@MoooHamMad That's not my only argument against them, but it means that people do immoral things like that it the name of Christianity. I shouldn't need to type up a whole argument against Christianity - there are plenty of videos here on YouTube that do that. You can go and look them up yourself if you really care, but honestly, I think that you like to persist in your delusions even when fact contradicts them.
FredChipNacho 2 years ago
MR.MOORON
5 + 5 = 10. You cant even add. Look 7 posts before the one you failed! If you have no idea what i am talking about you are dumber than i suspected! Mr.MOORON has proven to be a liar. He will only spew christiantologists propoganda bull shit. If you go to his channel or videos and say something that makes him look like the moron he is he will censor you. It is a waste of time to have a conversation with this turd!
thestunnedninja 2 years ago
@MR.MOOORON
"Here it is..... christians lie, they lie about atheism, they lie about belief, they lie about lack of belief, they lie about evidence, they lie about faith, they lie about just about everything that has anything to do with their religion and this should trouble you". I know it troubles me. It is almost amazing how much this video has in common with you. It is also amazing a day after i accused you of being this, that this is where i bump into you. HAHAHA.
thestunnedninja 2 years ago
Mr. DramaQueenNinja, once again, I didn't delete any of your comments. The fact that you're following me around when I made clear to you that I don't want to have anything to do with you anymore shows that you're delusional, compulsive liar, paranoid schizophrenic, obsessive, hateful, dumb & bitter to the end. To think that you ended up with cheap insults because you couldn't defeat my arguments on my video, The Evolution Hoax, reveals tons about your character. Now you can go on a rant rampage.
MoooHamMad 2 years ago
Nice try! I came at you with many good questions. NONE of wich you answered. When i first stumbled upon your garbage a few months back i tore holes in your first video. You never even replied. It is because if you opened up any low grade science book you would have seen that you were wrong. Following you? Funny how you commented on this video after i had it up on my channel. The trail of deceipt follows you everywhere you go.
thestunnedninja 2 years ago
And yes. "delusional, compulsive liar, paranoid schizophrenic, obsessive, hateful, dumb & bitter to the end". This is the perfect description of what type of person you are. You can omit paranoid schizophrenic. I dont know you that well. But you have demonstrated all of the others. You can include censoring coward. You were beaten with facts and intellectually smashed. I dont blame you for censoring me. If someone made me look like a moron i would have silenced them too! Good game!
thestunnedninja 2 years ago
I agree that it is important to expose Christian lies. But your question is ambiguous. Personally, I would still like to believe in a benevolent God, even though the concept is absurd. So I would have to answer "Yes". I want to believe, but nothing would make me do so & I certainly wouldn't hypocritically proselytise. The urge to believe in God is a deep, instinctive drive that has emerged from our psychological evolution.
BoneySkylord 2 years ago
Could you please explain how the question is ambiguous, and why you would still want to say yes? thanks
tigerf117 2 years ago
Hi tiger117,
Ambiguity comes from the word "want".
My previous comment plus magick205's have already answered your question. I'll happily expand on this if you are genuinely interested in exploring this issue.
It is difficult to phrase the video's question in a meaningful way. "If no God existed, would you still believe in one?" is possibly better, but still doesn't really get to the root of it.
BoneySkylord 2 years ago
After analyzing more and reviewing a false dichotomy I definitely understand what you and magick205 are saying. Thanks for the offer to explain though.
tigerf117 2 years ago
Hi all. I agree that the question is a bit ambiguous. But as you've also acknowledged, it's tricky to ask it properly without being ambiguous. I remain open to suggestions though, and thanks for watching.
Not1delusion 2 years ago
Interesting, but false dicotomy. The question is would I want to believe rather than would I believe in spite of evidence to the contrary. The idea of a benevolent deity is very comforting, as we all look for someone to care for us in an otherwise cold world. You ask a very leading question and then impose an answer. How is this different from any of the arguments given by a YECer that if objective morals exist then 'god" must exist as the source?
magick205 2 years ago
BUT:
The question of truth or lies may be trumped
by whether the holder of a life view,
based on any faith in gods or any other non supernatural life view,
leads a more reproductively fit life than the other
and so wins out in generations to come.
In general, I suppose the atheists are going to be replaced by believers in a few generations unless they start seeing their reproduction as sacred and imperative.
And I doubt that they will.
So who is more or less fit or sterile?
chiropra1 2 years ago
Exponentially more species have become extinct than have not. We may well be on the path of destruction because of religion. ("we" as in humans, not any particular race/culture)
ObscurelyUnkown 2 years ago
Is it not true that 2/3 of the world population have no belief in a god??
ObscurelyUnkown 2 years ago
Interesting question, but your 'fact' isn't a fact at all, it's just an opinion. You state that all christians lie without providing any evidence. It's also a futile statement as everyone lies. Which means you lie too. You can't single out a group by proclaiming they're liars, but also know thatt you yourself lie too.
MediaEclipse 2 years ago
MediaEclipse,
You're absolutely right. But what's important is the motivation behind the lie and the intended effect of the lie. I lie to my wife about her weight but I don't lie to her to cover up for an infedelity. I'm assuming he's going to point out harmful lies by christians. The kind of lies only Christians would tell because of the underlying motivations and intentions. Harmful lies.
winstonsmith00 2 years ago
Where do I find that list of lies?
dilemmix 2 years ago
I still believe there might be a god, but if I found out there is no god, I'm okay with that. What really matters is the truth.
averagebear1 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I like this, I'm not a Christian, but its a great idea.
Maybe I will do a series about the lies Atheist tell also, that way everyone could get both sides.
I've been talking with a lot of fundy Atheist lately and IMO you guys are laboring under some bad head stuff.
early2it 2 years ago
"fundy atheists?" So please tell me what are the fundamentals of atheism?
winstonsmith00 2 years ago 13
This has been flagged as spam show
@winstonsmith00 not believing in a god
daddyleon 1 year ago
Sounds like a christian lie to me.
SIASLbyRAH 2 years ago
What lies? Can you give me any examples?
dangerouslytalented 2 years ago
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SamNoble89 2 years ago
I was speaking in reply early2it who says that atheists tell lies too. I asked him which lies.
dangerouslytalented 2 years ago
Sorry about that. Comment deleted.
SamNoble89 2 years ago
If by atheist you mean someone who does not hold a belief in gods (nothing less, nothing more), then I don't see how such a person can be a fundamentalist. If you mean they're fundamentalist with respect to other issues, then I have no doubt you're right. After all, left-handed people lie too. And so do baseball fans.
faraz1729 2 years ago 2
Early2it, I would like to see a series on Atheist lies. I hope you are serious about your idea.
o2bgpn 2 years ago
Atheist lies?
That's going to be quite a challenge, seeing how there is no central dogma or accepted rule in atheism.
Still, I'd love to hear what these lies are, and how common they are.
amandarandom89 2 years ago
I think you were smart not to respond to the "fundy atheists" comment, mainly because there is no response to that question. Maybe you'll stop using the phrase. It's intellectually dishonest. I'm sure there's a better term to describe close-minded people that are also atheists. Fundamental Christians are clearly defined, atheists are not.
winstonsmith00 2 years ago
The only "fundamental doctrine" of atheism is "THERE IS NO GOD". There is nothing else. I mean, it is linked to a scientific worldview, but that is about it.
dangerouslytalented 2 years ago
True. But you don't even have to accept science. You could believe in some sort of panspermia or other non-supernatural world view. Raelians are atheists and could also be fundamentalists in their religion but not because of their atheism. I think the person that wrote that was either stupid or being facetious.
winstonsmith00 2 years ago
Raelians are NOT atheists, even though they claim to be. They have simply crossed out the word "god" and written in the word "alien".
dangerouslytalented 2 years ago
They don't believe in gods. That's the definition of atheist. They believe aliens designed us. The aliens say they are the cause of all the religions but aren't gods, they are just like us; humans from another world. The aliens aren't supernatural. rael*dot*org. Myself, I'd rather like the term "atheist" to not hold more definition than needed. Groups like Raelians and scientologists may not entirely be atheists but are narrowly defined as such (scientologists much less so).
winstonsmith00 2 years ago
They are still religions and, as such are just as deluded as mormons.
dangerouslytalented 2 years ago
LOL. Well, I disagree, not strongly mind you, but I think there's a distinction between a paranormal belief system and a pseudo-scientific one. Fortunately I'm only allowed 500 characters so I'll leave it at that ;>)
winstonsmith00 2 years ago
looks very promising, counting on a great series
★★★★★
Ultra4 2 years ago
Very nice :) looking forward to this series.
5***** and favorite.
TheX2Com 2 years ago
5*!! it really is that simple.. they lie!
oh and are you wearing braces? =D kinda sounded like you are
ccaptorchen 2 years ago
I disagree with your questions. It should have been.
" If no god existed, then would you still believe in one?""
Then I would say no.
I do not think that god exist. However, I would still want to belief in one as I know there are benefits in believing in a god, Like a sound feeling that someone is taking care of you.
However, wanting and doing so are two different things. At least they are for me, I wish I could belief in a god but I cannot. As I value truth about all else.
NathanWubs 2 years ago 2
do you really want to believe in the god of the bible?
AllBrainsNoSoul 2 years ago
That is nice, but did it say biblical god? The question does not say it was the biblical god. I do not want to belief in a biblical god at all, as he is the biggest asshole in the universe and is even worse then several people that committed genocide. I am talking about the question and just what the question is, nothing else.
NathanWubs 2 years ago
it doesnt need to say it is the god of the bible because it is titled "lies christians tell" and then goes on to address only christians. some best case scenario god that you envision is much much different. so yeah the video is slightly flawed in that it should narrow down to the god of the bible. but you don't want to believe in the god he is referring to ... so your point is still valid just not for you specifically
AllBrainsNoSoul 2 years ago
Well the point is pretty valid for me in just the way, that I know of many gods. Several dozen to be correct and I would certainly want to belief in some of them, but I just cannot because the fact is, there is no evidence to support a reason to belief in these gods. The only reason I would have to belief in any god then would to be to put me at ease. Which I cannot do as I am seeker of truth and nothing else even how harsh the truth can be.
NathanWubs 2 years ago
Favortied. I have been trying to articulate this in my mind. You have done it perfectly.
MrBrainmold 2 years ago
is this your new series not1delusion?
I look forward to seeing more =]
defect530 2 years ago
Now I understand the point that he is trying to make here. And although i answered no to this question after all i am a non believer, it begs to answer the question is it unethical to choose A? And if it is unethical, please explain why? Cause on an individual basis some people may live happier believing in the lie than knowing the truth.
SplinterInYourEye 2 years ago
In my opinion, It's not immoral to believe in something. It's what you do with that belief. It's wrong to fear-monger and harass even if god does exist. Many people also use their beliefs to back-up their intolerance and bigotry.
I guess it could be perceived as a type off dishonesty to believe something you know isn't true, but that depends on the individual person's belief.
It's unfortunate that some people need to believe in god to be happy, but understandable. Not immoral though.
artemisfair 2 years ago
If by morality you mean what is good or bad for man, as I do, then I see that belief is immoral. It is immoral because it clouds, constricts, and misinforms the mind. The people living these lies become teachers, leaders and can very much affect my life, by the decisions they make that are ignorant, wrong or uninformed because of their faith.
216trixie 2 years ago
This introduction has my interest peaked! Can hardly wait for this series:)
preachersaredumb 2 years ago
Excellent introduction. I'm very much looking forward to the rest. =)
TheAtheistSwede 2 years ago
Hmm....I am very much looking forward to this series.
Subbed and 5*
:)
hEaDoNtHeBlOcK 2 years ago
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Inmylifealive 2 years ago
im an atheist. but smtimes i want to believe in a god. faith is jst so much easier: smone to blame when thngs go wrng, nevr havng to accept rsponsibility, thnking that there's always a "plan" for misfortunes, not being botherd by the misfortunes of others coz it's part of the "plan".. it's like nevr growing up. smtimes i question the value of living miserably with the truth vs happily with delusion.. then again, it's no longer a choice i can make. i cant jst choose to believe even if i wantd to.
stressedoutmikey 2 years ago
Your grammar is atrocious.
DaDaWgLLS 2 years ago
i believe you meant to say my spelling. hehe. sorry about that. that is simply the result of youtube's 500 word limit on comments.
stressedoutmikey 2 years ago
oops. i meant 500 character limit
stressedoutmikey 2 years ago
I don't think most Christians lie. I think they are either to lazy or to afraid to look at the truth. Another reason they cling to their religion is, they are also afraid of what other people will think especially family. I've been an atheist since I was 12. Shortly before my mother died when she was 80 she told me that my dad and her didn't believe. By then my dad had already died and I had been an atheist for over 30 years. Ironic isn't it?
You're a very good speaker and looking forward.
Eugensdiet 2 years ago 10
I suspect that after we see his videos on the lies they tell we may accept that most Christians lie. I am looking forward to seeing those videos.
WarmWeatherGuy 2 years ago
Huh, I found that to be quite enjoyable.
Nice video.
ogjimkenobi 2 years ago
Excellent. Very good point. Why is it necessary to lie for what you perceive as the truth? Don't these people have a concience?
pilgrimpater 2 years ago 2
Good video. Unfortunately, some of those lies being told to support their beliefs are believed to be true. They reject the criticism because it's pounded into their heads from birth that it is true and that any who try to sway them are just sinners.
Of course, this does not mean that anyone should give up. I for one will always try to make even the most stubborn theist see truth, no matter how many times I fail.
MortalTodd 2 years ago 3
Nice video :)
masticina 2 years ago