Atheist Experience #517 - belief versus free will

[CommuninisimVsPope]

An apple falls from a tree because of the law of gravity.

Baking soda and vinegar fizz up because of the laws of chemistry.

Can there be free will in a universe which is run by the laws of the universe?

[WILLTHEWGMAN]

Talk about something you know about and not something you deny even exists. Not only can't Atheists answer truths in human morality, justice & ones self awareness as an individual with free-will, they discount all of these carte blanc as mere biochemical illusions via their limited world-view. Individual culpability to crime or any evil deed is mere illusory from biochemical human puppets of chance and evolution if there is no human soul/free-will agent or creator/God with such intents. Cont>

[itzahazylife]

@WILLTHEWGMAN

yes, our world view is limited..it's limited to EVIDENCE!...this immaterial, spiritual belief that u have, has NO evidence..as far as we currently know, our reality is material..there COULD be some magical reality, but, there is, and cannot be, any evidence of such a thing from within a material world..u say we can't answer for morality..sure we can..morality is relative and not absolute..but i know, u don't like this answer..so, u invent a God in order to make it all preferable.

[WILLTHEWGMAN]

@itzahazylife

Do you live your life as if love and your self-awareness and an individual with free-will is real? Do you expect justice for others criminal actions as if they have free-will in the choice in their actions? From where do you derive your and others free-will agent beyond mere biochemical illusion? Do you believe there is truth in equality? There is more evidence from love and human culpability in their actions than evidence of a black-hole and 50% of your life is just that!

[itzahazylife]

@WILLTHEWGMAN

we don't have free will..i know that doesn't make u feel all warm and fuzzy inside, but we are driven by chemicals.."you can't choose your choices"

face reality, don't deny it..don't let the fact that we are material beings, decrease our value..because we're still beautiful and amazing..a luxurious mansion is still just wood, metal, nails and screws deep down..

[WILLTHEWGMAN]

@itzahazylife

Speak for yourself, human free-will of choice in actions and thus being culpable for said actions is self-evident. ALL the justice systems of the world both past and present are founded on this basic principle and None could exist without this. I would love for you to try and use this, "Humans don't have free-will" to get out of you committing a crime anywhere in the world, it will not work and this is a testament of the truth in humans having free-will in choice as an absolute.

[itzahazylife]

@WILLTHEWGMAN

i don't care what courts say..i care what neuroscientists say..that's your problem..u don't look toward the proper sources for information..u look toward whatever supports your preconceived conclusions..wanna actually learn about the science of free will?..read what NEUROSCIENTISTS have to say..they study the brain!..

"One significant finding of modern studies is that a person's brain seems to commit to certain decisions before the person becomes aware of having made them"

[WILLTHEWGMAN]

@itzahazylife

The human free-will question is not a science one, it's a metaphysical question and world-view, one in which the whole world's population lives with the facts of human free-will including those that claim that free-will is mere illusion. Even Sam Harris thinks that there are objective moral standards at the same time claiming that human free-will is illusory which is a self-contradiction and opposing world-views. I have never seen anyone live life as if they had no free-will...

[itzahazylife]

watch "free will is an illusion" by sam harris here on youtube..he's a neuroscientist..very well thought out video.

[WILLTHEWGMAN]

@itzahazylife

I have seen it, so, if human consciousness is mere biochemical illusion how could humans derive any trust or truth in any human experience including human logic and reason? Surely you could not argue that yes, human consciousness is illusory but from this illusory we can find and learn truths.. this is a self-defeating point of debate. Human logic and reason itself would be derived from this same biochemical illusion therefore could not trustworthy as "real" or of "truth"...

[WILLTHEWGMAN]

Cont> Knowing God exists does not take free-will away nor eliminate evil from existing. Being in God's presence would most likely take free-will of evil or one's ability of evil deeds away. God did not create evil, evil is a result of the absence of God as darkness is the result of the absences of light. How could one obtain by choice any values/virtues over vices if no evils existed? Sample; how could one become courageous with no need to fear danger or pain (evil)?

[Enkarashaddam]

Why don't people get it through their heads; Christian free will isn't like a free democratic election! If God loved us so much that he invented democracy so we could choose to vote for him, and if christian free will was like a democratic election, there would be a little message above the ballet box that would say: DON'T VOTE FOR THE WRONG CANDIDATE OR YOU WILL SUFFER FOREVER. Yes, free will is a real bitch when you got to think for yourself.

[Existentialisht]

This man is a wonderful polemic :)

I love his sardonic tenor :D

[drjackflash]

What a bunch of non-sensical crap. Yeah, Christians are evil. How dare they promote values. This is ridiculous.

[itzahazylife]

@drjackflash

this video has nothing to do with what values christians promote..take your head outta your ass..and christians can promote their values all they want..and we can criticize the foundation of those values all we want..

[drjackflash]

@itzahazylife Very true, all you are goo at is criticizing values. We finally agree. Nice profanity by the way, it is always the way the uneducated try to drive their point home.

[itzahazylife]

@drjackflash

i criticize things i feel are falsehoods..and yeah, i'm good at it because i'm a thinking person..i question things..i question MYSELF also..that's what a critical mind does..so thank you for the compliment..

and yeah, i guess no intelligent person uses curse words..here i'll make u happy..this video has nothing to do with what values christians promote..remove your cranium from your hind quarters.

[drjackflash]

@itzahazylife Thank you, that was better. I disagree with your view point but hey, thats fine. You will live so therefore you will learn.

[crazy4carolyn]

I'd have to say that, at the least, I am gald that you guys are working to try and give people reality! Thanks!

[MrJohnnyrace]

The parting of the red sea has been debunked as well as the first born taken and the water turned to blood. Only a fanatic would believe that stuff.

[sungl0]

God is systematic and orderly. Look around us - hence scientists can learn to work out formula to His designs, so that we can make sense of order in our lives and surrounding.

The arrogance of the ignorant CREATED man now try with his pea brains to claim that there is no God/creator JUST because he CANNOT find a formula to uncover the design,"GOD".

[futurepsycdoc]

@sungl0

Can you provide evidence for any of the ridiculous claims you're making? Didn't think so. It's not true just because it makes you feel better or that has what has been ingrained in you since youth. Whatever reason you have for faith pales in comparison to truth. Also, life is not as systematic and orderly as you seem to think.

[laraesque]

I agree with your position: if a deity came out of hiding and said, yes, I wrote the bible, I would definitely not worship him, since he would be admitting to the unconscionable acts in the bible: selling daughters, telling followers to kill every child, baby, man, woman, and cow in a town because they had wronged the israelites. Heck, I would not worship him just because he threw Adam & Eve out for eating a piece of fruit--before they knew good & evil & could tell it was wrong! No way.

[steelydan53]

So the world was a more moral place when more people believed in god (or gods)?

You really think so?

Try reading some history!

[bumfire007]

Maybe that guy should be a comedian

[WILLTHEWGMAN]

@steelydan53

The majority of the world's human population has ALWAYS believed in a God or Gods including today and is at 85% or higher depending on the source. Please learn human world history before you make such silly comments. Atheism has never been above a mere 15% of any historic world population, and if you disagree with this fact please let me what year Atheism was at a higher percent than this?

[rationalbloke]

koryk1,

"God, morally bankrupt? He gives us our morals."

I don't believe your god is a boy. Where did your god get her morals from?

[Hopeful71]

"I don't believe your god is a boy."

Now my wife accuses me of putting women on a pedestal but the god of bible behaves very much like a man; "Do something to piss him off..he will fuck you up!"

If a female god is mad at us she would tease us about our weight or something passive aggressive like that ;)

[adolthitler]

Gives us morals like 1 Samuel 15:1-3.

He is dragging us down.

Have you noticed every religion has "morals", atheists have morals, so how is it it is from your god?

Yes you are not about this world, you are just waiting to die, in the waiting room. Well pascals wager works for you too, what if you are wrong?

[atysays]

Christians need to make sure to be corrected: They don't get their morals from the Bible either. At best, they get their morals from societal and cultural standards at church and other places.

If we got our morals from the Bible, there would be nothing wrong with slavery or killing in the name of God.

[friendshipsystem]

@koryk1 There once was a time when all people believed in God and the Church ruled. This time was called the Dark Ages.

-Richard Lederer

[koryk1]

We are reaching the end. Those who don't want to believe do it because they are afraid to give up everything they "Desire"

Its so true, just read my last message, I only found the way this year, so im not some self righteous bastard. Both my parents are atheists.

There is no evil in god. He will come show us soon. Its a test to see who is ready to ascend. But some are just too selfish.

Humble yourself, even I, originally a christian hater, have found the truth.

The truth!

[gtg309v]

"Those who don't want to believe do it because they are afraid to give up everything they 'Desire'"

WRONG! koryk1, buddhists seek to give up everything they desire and yet they still don't believe in your god. buddhist monks probably give up more desires than you, so shove off retard.

[Cootabux]

kor..

No, you haven't found the truth!

U say there is no evil in god?? Then you haven't read the bible. I don't know whose more evil, God or Satan!! The OT version of god, would kill U, your wife & children, even your goldfish, but the NT version, jesus, he tells us he loves us, then in the same breath he says if we don't submit 2 him, he'll chase us into death, just so he can torture us in his fire!!

If U don't understand the true evil in all that, Im sorry 4 U.

I was a Xian B 4 U were born.

[futurepsycdoc]

@Cootabux

Well said!

[koryk1]

Putting aside worldly desires = Holiness

The ways of Christ are right.

Here is what you should do: Look up doomsday, planet x, world government, conspiracies, etc.. You will see the beast's system.

Look at the world and people through a creator's eyes.

Look at humans (Fallen Angels) through a frightened animal's eyes. (Pretty Scary.)

Decide whether you would take the mark of the beast.

Take these things to heart. Especially the "viewing it through other eyes."

[mit7a]

We all have the potential of free will but the concept lies in the containment of your arrogance and demeaning tone, which is not a desirable trait by human or godly standard. I still do the same thing, I see it in me, I have free will to change it instead of playing into it and feeding it. I wish you mindful living.

[ValeofAldur]

I want your babies Matt.

[AlliedRecords]

pwned