For those would like another solution option or if the 12 step program it's working for your I would highly recommend the AVRT system. Their technology and results speak for themselves.
Hank Hayes Author of "You’ve Been Lied To…The Untold Truth about Mainstream Alcohol and Addiction Treatment Programs and the Secrets on How to Eliminate the Problem for Good."
i used a.v.r.t a few years ago to defeat cocaine and whiskey. now i'm trying to help my friend use the same to win her battle w/ alcohol. thank you for rational recovery.
AA is a load of crap that I find very useful for people who are incapable to take responsibility for their own behaviour (yes you have free will, unless your brain can't think and analyse for some reason). It is so convenient to call it a "disease" and not a simple bad choice with nasty consequences. Only a brain washed moron cannot see that!
AA is a load of crap that I find very useful for people who are incapable to take responsibility for their own behaviour (yes you have free will, unless your brain can't think and analyse for soe reason). It is so convenient to call it a "disease" and not a simple bad choice with nasty consequences. Only a brain washed moron cannot see that!
5 wasted years 'bouncing around' & brainwashed in AA. I made a RR Big Plan, 6 positive beautiful years abstinent from ethyl alcohol. The Beast is Dead ;)
I got clean and sober in AA, then I learnt to take a good look at myself and start making changes: trying to stop living in fear, trying to get honest about everything, being merciful, patient and tolerant, work on not being so greedy, being charitable, listening to others instead of talking over others and shouting them down...............AA works for some people!
Looking for that proverbial "easier softer way"? Need someone to validate your illogical rationalizations? Rationalize can be two words for the addict." Rationalize" or "rational lies" How can anyone who never lived the life we lived, relate to us? Stop bullshitting yourself.
@ndrthrdr1 Did you ever think, maybe you not a real alcoholic? There is a thin line between a heavy drinker and an alcoholic. I don't know your story but hey, if its working great. We'll see though, how long it last. If you're a real alcoholic, chances are you won't stay stopped without spiritual help, without God.
This is fucking hilarious. One Day At A Time you can postpone your drinking. The man didn't relapse because he wanted to, he relapsed because he had to. Ask any addict why they relapse, the truth is they don't know. This bullshit can kill the real alcoholic or the real addict.
@DorjeDriftw00d How are you doing at this point, and how long have you been sober? I've been battling a drinking habit for years and have finally decided (again) to quit for good. As an atheist I refuse to go to A.A. again. I just found out about R.R. today. Any info you care to share will be much appreciated.
@kc1964kc I used both SMART Recovery and Rational Recovery for sources of info and inspiration. Powerless over alcohol? Only if you become convinced that it's true.
@SubconsciousGatherer You're an atheist. Hows that working out for you? Are you still battling your addiction? I'd like to appeal to your common sense. In order to say there is no God, on would have to have complete and absolute knowledge of the entire universe. (omniscience) Since you don't possess that, how can you say there is no God?
Your chances are less than average because of your illogical position.
@miket1m My sobriety is working quite well, thank you. I'm at the 4.5 month mark today. Going strong.
I'm sorry, but I don't debate/entertain theists with their questions anymore. No disrespect, but it gets tiring to have to answer the same points over and over, all of which have been so thoroughly debunked. If you want your question answered you will find it on NUMEROUS atheist FAQ pages. All the best in your sobriety!
@SubconsciousGatherer Well, the only thing I can say, according to experience, you're probably not a real alcoholic. Thats ok though, we don't need people like you in AA anyway. I didn't ask you a thing. You can't debate me. Atheism is a negative. Its illogical and 100% intellectually indefensible. I would blow you out of the water. Atheist can't account for the laws of logic, rationality, morals, etc... Quite simply, its an idiotic position.
@miket1m 1. Why do you say I'm not a real alcoholic? You don't know me at all. That's not only arrogant for you to assert, but idiotic.
2. Debating you on religion would be foolish for me, based on what you've already written. You clearly have no firm grasp of logic, terminology or reason. Thanks all the same.
@SubconsciousGatherer I have about 25 years of experience working intensively with alcoholics and drug addicts. One thing I know is this disease. I have seen quite a few people trying to do it their way and failing. So yes, I can say if you are an atheist and you don't go to AA, then you are not a real alcoholic. A real alcoholic can't stay sober on his own will power and no other person can keep him sober, unless they chain him up. Actually, I think your full of shit.
@SubconsciousGatherer Again you put words in my mouth. I never mentioned religion at all. I merely mentioned how illogical the atheist position is. I think you know that i do have a very firm grasp on logic and rationality. I'm not the one making the ridiculous baseless claim that there is no God. You have absolutely nothing at all to make your position appear even remotely viable. You're a fool, yes I believe thats the word for you, a fool. Nice chatting with you, not really numbnuts.
@miket1m "I'm not the one making the ridiculous baseless claim that there is no God." Please show me where in my text I've made that claim, and I will donate $1,000 to the charity of your choice. If you cannot find where I've made that claim, are you willing to make a donation of that size to a charity of my choice?
You~ "I'm sorry, but I don't debate/entertain theists with their questions anymore. No disrespect, but it gets tiring to have to answer the same points over and over, all of which have been so thoroughly debunked. If you want your question answered you will find it on NUMEROUS atheist FAQ pages. All the best in your sobriety!"
@miket1m What's your point? (Oh yeah...you don't HAVE a point. You just like to bang your ape-like fists on the keyboard and see what pretty letters you can knock out.)
@SubconsciousGatherer What you would debate me in is not on any atheist web site. The points I would ask you, you could not answer. You have no idea. There is proof galore that supports the existence of God. You have no idea. But you would rather follow the herd because its not cool to believe in God nowadays. You believe in God you just couldn't be smart at all. Keep doing what you are doing and you will believe sooner or later when the devil reveals himself to you moron.
There's actually a lot of info online...I don't claim to be an authority on RR. Basically it seems to be a psychological approach rather than a spiritual approach. To me...whichever works for you is what you should do. However you get it...you should get it. I don't even say One Day At A time...I am NEVER getting loaded again...that's it.
My hat comes off to you Jack, that you have deal with the politics of the 12 Step Repressive "Treatment". They run the mother fucker as it they were minimu security prisoners. I can event call it treatment. To me treatment has to do with scientific research and the religious indoctrination of the 12 step
Look into Dr. Nora Volkow she is the director oh the National Drug Abuse Institute in Bellhaven NY. She is using brain imaging technology to show how drugs and alcohol are a brain disease are damaging the part of the brain that tells you stop doing this. She also states a treatment needs to be at least 90 days. Addiction and alcoholism are very similiar and can be treated. Cost is a problem for most people.
Jack, you're even embarrassing to other con artists in the recovery field. you still look the old alkie con and you can barely make a buck anymore. don't you have any shame knowing we all know you're a hustler and a cheap dumb one.
JACK you are almost my hero but I've heard you made some comments that need a bit more reseach to make it conclusive> i have been looking for the BEAST,and somehow there is little evidence actually none that talks to your.I am glad you are around.You at least started puting some questions into AA.I understand the beast concept,but you are going to have quite a time finding this beast.How much research and statistic have you taken in you MastersSocialWorkers.Ur NSWers not well know for research.
I have gotten into some heated discussions on recovery forums about the family disease model. It would be absurd for me to say that any of my friends & family have this disease because of dealing with my drinking. The only time I can think of where someone has long standing emotional damage from someone's addiction is if their parents were active addicts during their upbringing, but they would be victims of neglect or abuse - not of addiction as a family disease.
@prschuster So, your nasty self centered attitude has not effected anyone in your life. All your repeated lies and broken promises, all your dishonesty, all your depression, anger, resentments, guilt, etc. has not hurt anyone. Your "its all about me" selfish attitude, your "I want what I want now" attitude hasn't hurt anyone at all.
No, you really don't need to make any type of amends to anyone at all, do you?
@miket1m This is a Typical example of 12-step humiliation. Fuck you Mike! We are not saying that an addict or alcoholic doesn't hurt people when they're in the throes of their addiction. But most mature adults aren't scarred for life because of our past rude irresponsible addictive behavior like the vulnerable children of addicts. You AA ass hats think that we alkies are a unique brand of degenerates who need to spend the rest of our lives wallowing in remorse for our defects? Fuck you!
@miket1m This is the kind of drama I've come to expect from 12-step groups. It's all about self devaluation. I got a lot more healthy advice from Rational Recovery and other alternative approaches to addiction without all the rhetoric about being a defective human being due to my alcoholism.
@miket1m Typical AA BS.. No you don't HURT people, you don't have that power, only "THEY" choose to let you be abusive around them. It's not something you Do to them. It's something they are fucked up enough to let you do around them because they have no self-respect and are too immature to deal with their own shit!
Yea Jack you are having as much annectdotal data than actual impirical research.When you start paying attention to it.You outcomes maybe improving much better than AA.You are going in the right direction.BUT LOOK UP PSEUDOSCIENCE you do not want to fall in that category>i admire your work too much>
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For those would like another solution option or if the 12 step program it's working for your I would highly recommend the AVRT system. Their technology and results speak for themselves.
Hank Hayes Author of "You’ve Been Lied To…The Untold Truth about Mainstream Alcohol and Addiction Treatment Programs and the Secrets on How to Eliminate the Problem for Good."
HT1Hayes 1 month ago
i used a.v.r.t a few years ago to defeat cocaine and whiskey. now i'm trying to help my friend use the same to win her battle w/ alcohol. thank you for rational recovery.
tom
slc utah
desperatelytragic 2 months ago
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AA is a load of crap that I find very useful for people who are incapable to take responsibility for their own behaviour (yes you have free will, unless your brain can't think and analyse for some reason). It is so convenient to call it a "disease" and not a simple bad choice with nasty consequences. Only a brain washed moron cannot see that!
zabelicious 3 months ago
AA is a load of crap that I find very useful for people who are incapable to take responsibility for their own behaviour (yes you have free will, unless your brain can't think and analyse for soe reason). It is so convenient to call it a "disease" and not a simple bad choice with nasty consequences. Only a brain washed moron cannot see that!
zabelicious 3 months ago
5 wasted years 'bouncing around' & brainwashed in AA. I made a RR Big Plan, 6 positive beautiful years abstinent from ethyl alcohol. The Beast is Dead ;)
MarquisofHumber 5 months ago
Y does rational recovery run down aa 2 promote itself???
masonleah10 9 months ago
I got clean and sober in AA, then I learnt to take a good look at myself and start making changes: trying to stop living in fear, trying to get honest about everything, being merciful, patient and tolerant, work on not being so greedy, being charitable, listening to others instead of talking over others and shouting them down...............AA works for some people!
leonardoboy2 9 months ago
Oh, Now I get it. Rational as in Rationalize or Rational Lies. Lol. Morons
miket1m 9 months ago
Looking for that proverbial "easier softer way"? Need someone to validate your illogical rationalizations? Rationalize can be two words for the addict." Rationalize" or "rational lies" How can anyone who never lived the life we lived, relate to us? Stop bullshitting yourself.
miket1m 9 months ago
Look at the guys face. Look how his eyes close slowly. There is no hope at all there. An addict will tell you whatever you want to hear.
Ego maniac bullshit therapist. Give up imbecile. Cognitive therapy doesn't work.
miket1m 10 months ago
@miket1m Cognitive Therapy DID work for me. (2 1/2 years without a drink and life is good.)
ndrthrdr1 9 months ago
@ndrthrdr1 Did you ever think, maybe you not a real alcoholic? There is a thin line between a heavy drinker and an alcoholic. I don't know your story but hey, if its working great. We'll see though, how long it last. If you're a real alcoholic, chances are you won't stay stopped without spiritual help, without God.
miket1m 9 months ago
This is fucking hilarious. One Day At A Time you can postpone your drinking. The man didn't relapse because he wanted to, he relapsed because he had to. Ask any addict why they relapse, the truth is they don't know. This bullshit can kill the real alcoholic or the real addict.
miket1m 10 months ago
Rational Recovery worked for me after 14 years of heavy addiction.
DorjeDriftw00d 1 year ago
@DorjeDriftw00d How are you doing at this point, and how long have you been sober? I've been battling a drinking habit for years and have finally decided (again) to quit for good. As an atheist I refuse to go to A.A. again. I just found out about R.R. today. Any info you care to share will be much appreciated.
SubconsciousGatherer 1 year ago
@SubconsciousGatherer try googling smart recovery too- best of luck!
kc1964kc 1 year ago
@kc1964kc Thank your for your suggestion and encouragement. I'll give them a look!
SubconsciousGatherer 1 year ago
@kc1964kc I used both SMART Recovery and Rational Recovery for sources of info and inspiration. Powerless over alcohol? Only if you become convinced that it's true.
ndrthrdr1 9 months ago
@SubconsciousGatherer I was fed up with AA too. Rational Recovery and SMART Recovery both helped me to succeed.
ndrthrdr1 9 months ago
@SubconsciousGatherer You're an atheist. Hows that working out for you? Are you still battling your addiction? I'd like to appeal to your common sense. In order to say there is no God, on would have to have complete and absolute knowledge of the entire universe. (omniscience) Since you don't possess that, how can you say there is no God?
Your chances are less than average because of your illogical position.
miket1m 9 months ago
@miket1m My sobriety is working quite well, thank you. I'm at the 4.5 month mark today. Going strong.
I'm sorry, but I don't debate/entertain theists with their questions anymore. No disrespect, but it gets tiring to have to answer the same points over and over, all of which have been so thoroughly debunked. If you want your question answered you will find it on NUMEROUS atheist FAQ pages. All the best in your sobriety!
SubconsciousGatherer 9 months ago
@SubconsciousGatherer Well, the only thing I can say, according to experience, you're probably not a real alcoholic. Thats ok though, we don't need people like you in AA anyway. I didn't ask you a thing. You can't debate me. Atheism is a negative. Its illogical and 100% intellectually indefensible. I would blow you out of the water. Atheist can't account for the laws of logic, rationality, morals, etc... Quite simply, its an idiotic position.
miket1m 9 months ago
@miket1m 1. Why do you say I'm not a real alcoholic? You don't know me at all. That's not only arrogant for you to assert, but idiotic.
2. Debating you on religion would be foolish for me, based on what you've already written. You clearly have no firm grasp of logic, terminology or reason. Thanks all the same.
SubconsciousGatherer 9 months ago
@SubconsciousGatherer I have about 25 years of experience working intensively with alcoholics and drug addicts. One thing I know is this disease. I have seen quite a few people trying to do it their way and failing. So yes, I can say if you are an atheist and you don't go to AA, then you are not a real alcoholic. A real alcoholic can't stay sober on his own will power and no other person can keep him sober, unless they chain him up. Actually, I think your full of shit.
miket1m 9 months ago
@miket1m The gentleman who started S.O.S. (Secular Organizations for Sobriety) just celebrated 33 years of sobriety ***as an atheist.***
I don't need to resort to attacks or name calling; the truth is on my side.
SubconsciousGatherer 9 months ago
@SubconsciousGatherer Again you put words in my mouth. I never mentioned religion at all. I merely mentioned how illogical the atheist position is. I think you know that i do have a very firm grasp on logic and rationality. I'm not the one making the ridiculous baseless claim that there is no God. You have absolutely nothing at all to make your position appear even remotely viable. You're a fool, yes I believe thats the word for you, a fool. Nice chatting with you, not really numbnuts.
miket1m 9 months ago
@miket1m "I'm not the one making the ridiculous baseless claim that there is no God." Please show me where in my text I've made that claim, and I will donate $1,000 to the charity of your choice. If you cannot find where I've made that claim, are you willing to make a donation of that size to a charity of my choice?
SubconsciousGatherer 9 months ago
@SubconsciousGatherer
You~ "I'm sorry, but I don't debate/entertain theists with their questions anymore. No disrespect, but it gets tiring to have to answer the same points over and over, all of which have been so thoroughly debunked. If you want your question answered you will find it on NUMEROUS atheist FAQ pages. All the best in your sobriety!"
Is this you? Why yes I believe it is.
miket1m 9 months ago
@miket1m What's your point? (Oh yeah...you don't HAVE a point. You just like to bang your ape-like fists on the keyboard and see what pretty letters you can knock out.)
SubconsciousGatherer 9 months ago
@SubconsciousGatherer What you would debate me in is not on any atheist web site. The points I would ask you, you could not answer. You have no idea. There is proof galore that supports the existence of God. You have no idea. But you would rather follow the herd because its not cool to believe in God nowadays. You believe in God you just couldn't be smart at all. Keep doing what you are doing and you will believe sooner or later when the devil reveals himself to you moron.
miket1m 9 months ago
@miket1m I was prepared to embarrass the hell out of you, but you're doing a fine job of it yourself.
SubconsciousGatherer 9 months ago
There's actually a lot of info online...I don't claim to be an authority on RR. Basically it seems to be a psychological approach rather than a spiritual approach. To me...whichever works for you is what you should do. However you get it...you should get it. I don't even say One Day At A time...I am NEVER getting loaded again...that's it.
badusername2010 1 year ago
My hat comes off to you Jack, that you have deal with the politics of the 12 Step Repressive "Treatment". They run the mother fucker as it they were minimu security prisoners. I can event call it treatment. To me treatment has to do with scientific research and the religious indoctrination of the 12 step
Picaro1 1 year ago
Look into Dr. Nora Volkow she is the director oh the National Drug Abuse Institute in Bellhaven NY. She is using brain imaging technology to show how drugs and alcohol are a brain disease are damaging the part of the brain that tells you stop doing this. She also states a treatment needs to be at least 90 days. Addiction and alcoholism are very similiar and can be treated. Cost is a problem for most people.
pwg1126 1 year ago
Jack, you're even embarrassing to other con artists in the recovery field. you still look the old alkie con and you can barely make a buck anymore. don't you have any shame knowing we all know you're a hustler and a cheap dumb one.
taylormark19 2 years ago
terrible toupee....
FitnessBobby 2 years ago
JACK you are almost my hero but I've heard you made some comments that need a bit more reseach to make it conclusive> i have been looking for the BEAST,and somehow there is little evidence actually none that talks to your.I am glad you are around.You at least started puting some questions into AA.I understand the beast concept,but you are going to have quite a time finding this beast.How much research and statistic have you taken in you MastersSocialWorkers.Ur NSWers not well know for research.
Picaro1 2 years ago
This needs much wider attintion!! 5/5
wolfofthewhitemt 2 years ago
I have gotten into some heated discussions on recovery forums about the family disease model. It would be absurd for me to say that any of my friends & family have this disease because of dealing with my drinking. The only time I can think of where someone has long standing emotional damage from someone's addiction is if their parents were active addicts during their upbringing, but they would be victims of neglect or abuse - not of addiction as a family disease.
prschuster 2 years ago 5
@prschuster So, your nasty self centered attitude has not effected anyone in your life. All your repeated lies and broken promises, all your dishonesty, all your depression, anger, resentments, guilt, etc. has not hurt anyone. Your "its all about me" selfish attitude, your "I want what I want now" attitude hasn't hurt anyone at all.
No, you really don't need to make any type of amends to anyone at all, do you?
miket1m 9 months ago
@miket1m This is a Typical example of 12-step humiliation. Fuck you Mike! We are not saying that an addict or alcoholic doesn't hurt people when they're in the throes of their addiction. But most mature adults aren't scarred for life because of our past rude irresponsible addictive behavior like the vulnerable children of addicts. You AA ass hats think that we alkies are a unique brand of degenerates who need to spend the rest of our lives wallowing in remorse for our defects? Fuck you!
prschuster 9 months ago
@prschuster How the hell do you know? No I think you need to stop acting like an ass clown and grow up. You have no idea how ridiculous you sound.
No, fuck you!
miket1m 9 months ago
@miket1m This is the kind of drama I've come to expect from 12-step groups. It's all about self devaluation. I got a lot more healthy advice from Rational Recovery and other alternative approaches to addiction without all the rhetoric about being a defective human being due to my alcoholism.
prschuster 9 months ago
@miket1m Typical AA BS.. No you don't HURT people, you don't have that power, only "THEY" choose to let you be abusive around them. It's not something you Do to them. It's something they are fucked up enough to let you do around them because they have no self-respect and are too immature to deal with their own shit!
zabelicious 3 months ago
Thank you so much!There needs to be more info on Rational recovery.
MIKEPRESL 2 years ago 8
Yea Jack you are having as much annectdotal data than actual impirical research.When you start paying attention to it.You outcomes maybe improving much better than AA.You are going in the right direction.BUT LOOK UP PSEUDOSCIENCE you do not want to fall in that category>i admire your work too much>
Picaro1 2 years ago