IEC Fusion for Dummies v5.7

[MegaSnake2011]

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МОЙ СКАЙП: SNAKE201121

[MrFreddyFeatures]

so where is the "Electro-static confinment " part.

[breakablec]

This is how I imagine actual pB fusion: you should probably have protons circulating and confining B+ ions. Then you increase the charge of the cusps - add more protons until the center is dense enough for fusion, and some protons go into the center due to cusps charge, and fuse with B+.

[breakablec]

I am not physicist, but I think this explanation could be incorrect. I think electrons have nothing to do in pB fusion, because they should not be able to confine positive charged particles (such as protons if they have a negative charge. I think that electrons were used to prove recirculation and diagnose problems.

[ianshiell]

We will not see this, we might see a dumb down version for public reactors and such. What Bussard wanted was something that would fuse buron-II which could in theory make salt water into fresh water. But the plan is to lower the population people, not to stabilize it. Rich people on the top will not allow this to reach full swing, unless it can be made into the weapon. Sad but this is how the world works, time and time again.

[PoisonFist31489]

The diagram of the electrons moving through the field isn't ENTIRELY correct.

The force on an electron in a magnetic field is V x B, where V and B are the velocity and magnetic field vectors, respectively: electrons will actually spiral about lines that trace through the vector field B.

[FogerRox]

Poison, thanks. Yes the detail in the video is very simple or non existant. I hope to working with Dr NEbel on a new video to be released late this year.

Roger.

[otoy1257]

Well, it's doable probably better then the other three designs.

[Arightfuckingcunt]

Your all dummies, and yes thats you too!

LOL

[jburt56]

Thank you for the explanation!!

[consta17]

polwell+vasimr=nice month trip to mars

[Stoney3K]

Polywell + Heim's proposed drive system: Neptune and back in six minutes.

[simharry3]

@stoney3k, that would be faster than the speed of light. :(

[corotor12345]

@Stoney3K

Please explain that further

[wtrmute]

@Stoney3K Even if Heim's theory pans out, we probably can't jump to the alternate universes. If the speed of light changes, then alpha (the fine-structure constant) changes as well and chemistry stops working (who knows, maybe titanium will become unstable and decay, trashing your spaceship). Thus, we're limited to speeds under c.

[Stoney3K]

@wtrmute I'm not talking about 'jumping' to 'alternate universes'. And even the limit of speeds under the speed of light, is only applicable to the local space surrounding the spacecraft. It does not have to be an observer far away. Guys like Alcubierre (and Heim) got this.

Or, to put it in the words of Montgomery Scott:

"Aye, I never imagined space as being the thing that's moving!"

[renderrob]

Thank you! Great video, excellent animations. I have thought about the possibility of building one of these. It's really simple and safe in operation, from what I understand from Dr. Bussard's descriptions. He said the distance between the rings is really important though, so I assume exact dimensions of the 6 tori and their placement, needs to be calculated correctly and constructed accurately.

You know Dr. Bussard passed away recently? The world has lost another great hero of our time.

[FogerRox]

The US Navy has plans to develop this to power their next gen ships. IF the Navy thinks this might replace fission nukes...

I say go for it.

I expect Dr Nebel to build WB-8, to see if its net power, which has only been done on one machine ever in history.

[Santoslhelpa]

***addition to first email***

teh plasma spins in teh stellarator of course, and its aimed at optimised plasma flow by ultracomplciated plasma physics. the magnets dont spin o f course.

its like,.. everyone feels like the expert and therefore turns down something else

[Santoslhelpa]

the secret was then to lave space between the coils that hte elctrons can flow. when they had em together the electrons hit hte metal andcouldnt flow. now fine. but why did it take 5 tries and 5 expensive machiens to get this out?? this is like the P59. kept black and therefore not competitive wiht me262. (metaphore). how can this continue wihtout the leading head BUssard anyway

[Santoslhelpa]

oh yahhhh, thats the stuff...

great work. keep it up. hows wb7 and wb8 gonna look like?

[hekma]

When will we get the next update on WB-7 ?

[FogerRox]

Testing & peer review should be finished by this summer.

[kurtilein3]

the magnwetic fields are open, and will stay open.

maybe you can demonstrate a little bit of fusion with this device, but this will never be an energy-source. in this setup, there will always be areas where negatively charged particles can easily leave the cage, and areas where positively charged particles can easily leave the cage.

[FogerRox]

This device is a world record holder for creating neutrons,in its type, only 20cm across each coil. It made fusion at low power, 5kV. The US Navy is funding the research. Electrons recirculate, so there are really no losses.

Theory says when scaled up to 9 meters, you will have a 500MW generator.

Polywell community: talk-polywell dot org

you would be welcome...

[kurtilein3]

i just read the wikipedia-article about it.

i have to say... im not convinced. almost all the sources are just from two people. many things are just claims. the presence of electrons in the plasma will cause the temperature to more or less radiate off as electromagnetic radiation.

whats the highest temperature you reached so far? if you already topped 50000 °C and you can demonstrate that you can reach 100 mio °C, i might be interested.

[FogerRox]

Bremsstrahlung requires high electron density and high electron energy, correct ?

Polywell does not have high electron density and high electron energy at the same time,or same location.

Polywll is not temperature driven.

[kurtilein3]

im not sure, i dont know much about the subject. as i understand it, electrons just need to be present in the right quantity, and then the temperature will be transferred into photons.

and please dont tell me that you dont need temperature, the random movement needs to be so high that the ions crash strong enough for fusion, there is no way getting around temperature. see my other comment, you might be re-inventing the lightbulb.

[FogerRox]

Polywell fusion occurs in a near vacume. How can it be temp driven? This is a fundamental tenant of physics, yet you have failed to employ it. I suggest to you, that you are not trying to grasp the science of polywell. Instead you apply the science of toridial plasma devices to a vacume tube.

[FogerRox]

I offer you all the public domain documentation and test results at talk-polywell dot org.

Keep a look out this summer, if the US Navy offers full funding for proof of concept, will you take a serious look at Polywell or will you continue your toridial only view ?

[FogerRox]

Answer the question please.

Polywell fusion occurs in a vacume.

How can it be temp driven? This is a fundamental tenant of physics, yet you have failed to employ it.

[kurtilein3]

i will from now on consider polywell fusion a failed concept that is used/abused by frauds that follow non-scientific goals.

only kinetic energy can cause fusion events, and i get the impression that you just dont understand it. you are attempting the impossible when you claim that you can just ignore parts of science. or you get a nobel price, if you manage to convince other scientists. at the moment you look like a fraud.

[FogerRox]

First you say fusion is temperature driven, then you say fusion is kinetic energy driven.

Which is it Kurt ?

[Santoslhelpa]

kurt, fusion is primarily temperature driven. the temperature makes them move not the magnetic field.. the tokomaks work this way at least

[kurtilein3]

high velocity of the particles, high temperature, high kinetic energy... that is all tied together.

the particles need to crash into each other at high velocities, so that they overcome the electromagnetic force and the nuclear force takes over and they fuse.

and this is impossible in the design FogerRox proposes. he will be unable to reach the temperature / kinetic energy / velocity of particles that would be necessary for fusion.

tokamaks and stellerators work ;)

[Santoslhelpa]

what you think of my idea to create a superstrong instant crushfield that crumbles the whole stuff together so it fuses on a micro spot

my old invetnion from 2003 2004 would it work then?

[kurtilein3]

that has already been done.

themonuclear weapons (the H-bomb) uses the x-ray burst from a fission bomb to evaporate the outer areas of a metal container, the remaining metal is accelerated inwards so violently that the fusion fuel inside it gets crushed so hard that it fuses.

the z-machine uses an electrically generated x-ray burst to do basically the same on a very small scale.

we already figured it out, it works. but you only get explosions. very big ones or very small ones.

[Santoslhelpa]

why would it be too weak ? I mean the electrons will follow the crush field and the neuclei will follow the electrons. at worst case you increase the speed of hte nuclei. at bestall works better whats working ok alreadyy

[kurtilein3]

santoshelpa: do you know about coin shrinking?

there a magnetic field is used to crush the coins. but the magnetic coil explodes while doing so. the magnetic field is too weak to evaporate the coin, or to crush it into degenerate matter, but the magnetic field is strong enough to completely destroy the magnetic coil.

this just wont work. you need to think about something better than that.

[Santoslhelpa]

OK! lets make a tungsten coat coil wiht cooled mercury flow inside

would htis coil stand it ? you crush a handful of nuclei together.. that are atrtacted anyway by the lectron cloud damnit you dont wanna crumble a coin.

its a few thousand nuclei.. if im right. I respect your knowledgee and opinion, dont misunderstand me

[kurtilein3]

no, it wont work.

for a field that strong you would need to evaporate the coils, no matter what material you use. even if you use superconducting coils, the forces would still rip them into pieces.

and then your field will still not be strong enough.

[Santoslhelpa]

hmm, i got no feel for ht forces in this thign. so youre telling me that a few thousands nuclei are still stronger wiht hteir forces between them than the strongest field? of lets say thirty tesla with california pie coils or sth

[kurtilein3]

santoshelpa: the problem is that magnetic fields are just that: fields. you cannot focus them on a single point.

if you want to have a specific force in a specific area, you will get at least the same forces working between the individual wires of the magnetic coil. and the forces necessary for nuclear fusion will cause your coils to simply blow up.

you can focus laser beams, you can focus x-rays, but you cannot focus fields.

[FogerRox]

Circular magnetic bottle.

[kurtilein3]

you can also do it using focused laser beams that can emit highly energetic pulses. many of those experiments exist, it has been done for decades. your idea isnt that new. instead of superstrong instant crushFIELDS (that would be much too weak), they use superstrong crushing shockwaves in highly condensed liquid metal. more crushing than a field could ever be. where the violent shockwaves focus the material is crushed into degenerate matter, temperature goes insanely high, and it fuses.

[Santoslhelpa]

kurtlein. ok hten when you cant focus htem well how abouta half ideal shape. a cone magnet wiht flat peak, tungsten coat and inside superconductor or mercury- could these fields penetrate the corners of truncated cube or hte other way thorugh the rings and ions thorugh the corners ?

[kurtilein3]

you can trap the plasma inside a magnetic cage, and then heat it up. but this way, you will need to accept that the plasma will be very thin, low density, you will not have pressure. but if you slowly heat it up beyond 100 million degrees celsius, fusion will happen.

this is precisely what experiments like JET, ITER and Wendelstein 7-X are doing.

im sorry to say it again, but you dont have a new/working idea here. everything that is promising is already researched by real scientists.

[kurtilein3]

... continued

and for newer experiments like K-star, or again wendelstein 7-x and ITER, they are using superconducting magnetic coils for this. the magnetic fields are incredibly strong (about 3 tesla, and the magnetic field is huge), and the coils are designed so that they can withstand the strong mechanical forces. but your reactor needs to be quite huge in order to be effective. for good results, you should invest at least a few billion dollars.

[Santoslhelpa]

yeah i know. the iter will work on 6 to 7 tesla. i knwo also that htey use an aluminium coat or sometiems copper, wiht many small sueprconductor elements in em. The stellarators spin em additionally whihc makes hte whole layout ultra complicated but there you go. I knwo that superconductors can amke forces up to 30 tesla

[Santoslhelpa]

continued..

and htis is where my invention comes in. Popping a magfield either throug hteh rings or the corners of truncated cube and isntant crush friction field a fusion. special strong coils that must only switch for very ver yshort time. its defintiely workign, jsut that you try to tell me that this couldnt crubmle a few nuclei into a micro spot.

once htey fuce the fields have already been shut off. they dont eve need to contain anything that much jsut compress the cloud

[FogerRox]

Santoslhelpa, what do you think about the old IEC experiments of 40 yrs ago ? When a small table top "fusor" made very low levels of neutrons.. ?

The University of Wisconsin and Urbana at Illinois, as well as the Japanese, all have IEC like programs, that create low levels of fusion.

Today lots of "basement brewed" fusors easily generate plasma.

We know this brand of device creates fusion. The question is: can it be scaled up to the power gain that Dr Bussards theory claims.

[FogerRox]

Santoslhelpa, I am waiting for the WB-7 test results to be peer reviewed and then published. If WB-7 validates the WB-6 results, it is more than likely Federal funding will increase to the 10 to 50 million range.

This would pay for a truncated dodecahedron at 30cm, (2.3 million)

[hekma]

yeah i hear you, i check talk-polywell about 5 times a day

[FogerRox]

Santoslhelpa,

Next is 30cm, LN2 cooled version, this should be capable of running for 10 to 20 minutes, not the milli seconds pulses of WB-6&7. This is the stage where the fuel injection system must be perfected. Full power continuous 20 minute runs are required. (10 to 15 million)

Next we double the size, 30cm to 60cm, to test scaling law theory. (20 to 25 million). Then we know what size to build a 500MW net power device.

[Santoslhelpa]

so they fuse only milliseconds to protect the coils? hmmmmmm...

waht you think generally of hte idea of a parhelia reactor ie a sphere maglevitated stellarator ? like the best of the brits the LDX and the wendelstein ?

is there anyreason why not merge all advantages?

iec is a superior concept though

[FogerRox]

"they fuse only milliseconds to protect the coils?"

No, they fuse only milliseconds, because they do not have sufficient grid power available, and the fuel delivery system is crude.

No high voltage lines, IIRC just 3 phase, 220. Instead capacitor banks and batteries are used to power a pulse of current thru the magnets.

Right now a puff of fuel comes out of a tube that points to the center of the device. A carburetor needs to be designed and built before continious operation can occur.

[Santoslhelpa]

so its an engine without injection or carb. isee.

btw!

i think the coils need this or that way a specialy insulation, the nuclei are suspiciously close to the coils if you ask me

i bet a good wall will help the fusion while a cooled wall will ruin it even more

wanna bet wiht me?

waht you think?=

[FogerRox]

Yes.

"so its an engine without injection or carb. isee."

WB-7 is like a tin can with the lid cut off, resting at the bottom with gasoline. Light the gas off, and the lid flips in the air.

Yes exactly, we need injection or carb.

[FogerRox]

Fusion in a Tokamak, yes, In IEC or Polywell fusion, the potential well (virtual cathode)acts a sort of accelerator. Polywell crashes 2 particles together at enough speed to cause fusion.

[FogerRox]

Please define Bremsstrahlung radiation.

[FogerRox]

Come join the crew at talk-polywell dot org

Polywell is like a vacume tube, part magnatron and part diode.

[kurtilein3]

i have an idea how you could actually use your devices and make real money, even if your attempts to generate fusion power fails.

check the light-emission, maybe you can build the strongest light-source on the planet, for stadiums or something like that. depends on the spectrum, but maybe you can control that so that it gets similar to real sunlight. maybe its efficient because of low heat-loss and might save electricity in the long run, justifying high production costs.

[FogerRox]

Electrons recirculate, since there is nothing to attract them away, they return.

[FogerRox]

Bremsstrahlung radiation occurs in regions of high electron density and high electron energy.

Yes or no ?

[iplaysax]

great video, thanks

[FogerRox]

Try talk-polywell dot org

Thats where everybody hangs out.

[MacGyverKilla]

World oil production did NOT peak in may 2005!! What a bullshit!!!

[iplaysax]

The claim is that the best, cheapest, most easily accessible oil peaked in 2005. The rest of the stuff is harder to get, and it could peak soon. I've heard that there is some difficulty in estimating oil reserves due to shady accounting in oil-producing countries. Maybe that's why I've also heard some disagreement about whether oil production peaked overall in 2005. Anyway, we're running out.

[FogerRox]

Exxon CEO said so, Chevron ran an add this summer, that said so. So take your BS call and fold it 5 times & put it where the moon dont shine..

[teresasande]

I'm certainly not saying that we aren't running out...it is a non-renewable resource after all. But, if I was the CEO of Exxon, it could be a smart business move to publicize the scarcity of the resource that I am trying to sell. If the oil were "running out" there would really be nothing wrong with the oil prices going up.

[MichaelDarlingCo]

Would it make you feel better if the statement was altered to the more grammatically correct "cheap oil production peaked in 2005"?

[listeningonhold]

hopefully in a year or two politicians will take their collective asses out of their heads and invest in science again, instead of war games. This technology needs to become more mainstream before that, it is still considered too 'fringe'

[EnigmaNZ]

Doesn't this use boron 11 as a source of fuel?

How plentiful is that? I was reading about fusor research then that lead to the polywell. Wiki has a good article on them. $US200,000,000 seems like small change, and probably is to many. With government enfluenced by the oil lobby, fusion is probably being funded at a rate that will stop it coming on the scene too soon, as long as oil flows, fusion won't I predict.

[FogerRox]

The device in the video used Deutritium fuel, the goal is to use Boron, correct. Boron 11 is mined and fairly common, its alss the 10th most common element in sea water.

[iplaysax]

I wondered about the same thing. Assuming they do use Boron, could they get it from water or would they have to mine it? Also, I was confused about how the Carbon-12 could break down into helium atoms without absorbing energy--I thought small things fused to make big things and gave off energy.

[FogerRox]

Boron is the 10th most common element in sea water, and it is currently mined.

dailykos dot com/story/2007/8/27/211948/500­/175/377150

[lokitoyz]

Ok guys how long until we have a fully working sustainable fusion device ready for market? I mean practical and affordable? I'm a novice at this. Is this a practical device and is it revolutionary in the sense that it finally makes fusion a reality?

[FogerRox]

lokitoyz, We might have 5 million in VC funding which will build the next 2 devices during the next 2 years. Then the next device built will be larger, this is where the price jumps to 15 million. a full sized proof of concept reactor should cost in the area of 150 to 200 million.

[lokitoyz]

Forget my last question for some reason I didn't see the posting detailing the size. Thanks

[FogerRox]

The full sized reactor would about 10 ft square, and should be able to generate 100 to 200 mega watts of electricty. All of that would take 3 to 4 years. SO manufaturing of reactors is at least 5 years off, if everything works according to plan.

EMC2fusion dot org

[lokitoyz]

If you have really done this then I congratulate and envy you at the same time. By the way approximately how large are these devices? Can they be used in vehicles. I'm reservedly excited can't wait to see how this will change the world.

[FogerRox]

About one foot. This is a scale test model, WB6. Dr Bussard worked under DOD contract for about 11 years to get to this stage.

[FogerRox]

WB6 is more akin to a vacume (radio) tube than a Tokamak. At this size WB6 is still 3 orders of magnitude below break even.

[lokitoyz]

I really appreciate your posting these answers for me. One more question please if it's not an imposition. Could this one foot model conceivably be used to power an automobile? or a single home? I mean if it's successful the commercial applications could save this planet and free the world from global dependence on middle eastern oil. Not to mention create an economic miracle that the world desperately needs right now. I could go on but I don't want to bore you.

[sarkmiegel]

Most likely not, the equipment to run such a device is massive and expensive because the scaling needs to be at least 4 meters. You need high power (current and voltage) for the coils, large vacuum equipment to house it, and some sort of collection system, ie a working fluid, OR neutron moderator or in the B-11 + p a grid to capture the charged particles. Finally you need to cool massive coils, such a heat exchanger, or something to chill the coils to superconducting.

[FogerRox]

Coils for a 500MW P-B11 generator should be 3 meters as per the Doc. Electrostatic grids will collect Aphas. Heat exchanger is a little overboard, no ? There will be no thermal plant as in a fission plant.

[sarkmiegel]

Yeah steam tech is like a few days outdated.

[davea0511]

FYI ... Bussard and most people call this IEF, not IECF. This is utilizing technology long forgotten (pioneered by Tesla and the like) and never written (even by Bussard). Bussard admits that it's development needs to take place by old fogey's like himself that won't be with us long enough to see it reach full fruition unless we act now. UNLESS WE ACT NOW. This is perhaps the greatest invention of all time.

[Ryukacho]

Bussard really has something here. Total energy control of the stray electrons eliminates the small mesh ball that used to be in the center of the reactor. Without it, fusion reactions can happen anywhere in the chamber, although they usually occur in the center.

go go Bussard

[FogerRox]

Fusion will occur in the potential well, the cloud of electrons in and around the center. It is an elegant and simple device.

[fewwiggle]

and, uh, like, where's the fusion?

[FogerRox]

You didn't see the little flashes? Though really the video is not supposed to show the fusion, its a schematic veiw of particle flow in the device.

[daveprice74]

Nice work.

[PixelPi]

Like the music... Lets build a stargate after we get polywell fusion working.