We now have houses that are sold complete with solar panels to provide 100% of all energy needs(they are off the grid entirely). These houses cost less than their dependent equivalents. One house in NJ makes all its energy plus all the energy for it's cars from one set of solar panels and innovative use of hydrogen. NJ is not a very sunny state yet he makes all the energy he needs year around to heat and cool and run his LED panel tvs, fridges,etc plus drive his car from one solar panel array.
Simply switching over everyone to using electric vehicles alone would wipe out our need for imported oil. (just the past few years we have gone from 65% imports of oil to barely over 43%-- we now use mostly domestic oil). Electric cars could charge overnight using electric power that is otherwise wasted on the grid. We also could easily convert cars to use natural gas which the US has hundreds of years worth. People could refill their cars in their garage(electric or natural gas).
She's smart. As smart as Meghan McCain and Janeane Garofalo and Tim Robbins. She doesn't regurgitate leftwing nonsense at all. How do I know? She put on her glasses.
You left wingers crashed this economy with your policies on banking, so quit blaming others for it. You guys also bought into the global warming fantasy. You people are being used by the elites. They are destroying the small banks with this manufactured crisis,and setting up a global tax with a chicken little fairy tale that will prop them up as the worlds undisputed government. Try to open up your mind and do some objecttive research for yourself once in a while.
@zdrux obviously for my changes to occur those people and their big-oil, war on terror and other scams, would have to be removed. In the USA we are a democracy- mostly representative, but we the People are the government. These people serve us, not the other way around. The changes need to be made to save the country, the economy and the environment- first the neocon-moron-fascist-mobsters must go and with them their divide and conquer 2-party system and the legalized bribery election process
The insanity of lobbying, it's immorality and it's obscenity is simply stunning. It is also stunning that the American people have seen to keep it going and still don't protest against it.
The fact is we need to realize that not going green is far more costly. The price of oil is a very big part of the reason we are having economic problems in addition to the multi-trillion dollar banking scam and the defense complex. With a major effort the US govt could end all imports of oil and super charge the economy by switching us over to hydrogen - electric vehicles and other measures. It could be done in just 2 years flat. Super fund innovative concepts would make the US the top exporter
@TruthInjector Are you stupid? I've heard some really extreme leftist people before but nothing like that. I even think John Keyes would call you an extremist. End all imports of oil... nigga please.
@TruthInjector there is no infrastructure to support these changes you say are so easy. How many hydrogen refueling stations are there? How long does it take to charge a fully electric car? How much damage does it do to the environment to mine the nickel from canada send it to England and then Japan to be made into batteries and then put into a shitty little car? You lap up this leftist babble without a single independent thought. shame on you
And I think that as long as the majority of US people continue to think inside the box of the "Liberal-Democrat/Conservative-Republican" nonsense, they will fail to see the fact that they are mices electing cats to run their affairs.
I'm from Argentina and she's totally right about the IMF and neoliberal economic policies. Sadly, I don't think puppet Obama would replace those Wall Street guys. He's there to continue imperial foreign policy with a friendly face, he's there to continue the transfer of wealth from the working and middle class to the rich, he's there to prolongue the political system he's part of.
@groam6666 The problem is that perverse incentives live in private enterprise as well. Some would say that the difference in accountability between the leader of Exxon and the leader of the US is the US leader has reporters following him around and can be voted out every 4 years.
The idea that lack of government interference in a market is the same thing as a free market that will always be won by the most efficient is a libertarian fairy tail.
Lol, got to love how butthurt right whingers try to defend the bailout when it lined the pockets of the top 0.1% only. The funny thing is riech wingers seriously believe they are only temporarily low or middle class, and that one day they too will be millionaires and thus they vote preemptively to help their future self which is totally imaginary. American libertarianism is the childish preoccupation with being an inconsiderate douche.
@AdamDLDixon Any "right whinger" who defends the bailouts in not a right winger. Just a little bonus for you that you didn't know before. You're welcome.
@AdamDLDixon What are you talking about? The problem is corruption, crony capitalism. Big government is the problem. If government keeps getting in the way as it is happening now things will get worse. However Adam, I don't expect you to understand that.
>What are you talking about? The problem is corruption, crony capitalism. Big government is the problem.
Ok the the first of your sentences i obviously agree with. But the leap in the second sentence is absurd. How do you connect size of government with corruption? Surely they are separate issues. I presume you are a libertarian, and in a fully private economy this corruption would be even worse as there would be no democratic accountability to Corporate decisions.
@AdamDLDixon real "right wingers" opposed the bailout. In a truly capitalist system no company is too big to fail and no one gets bailed out by the government. I don't think I've ever seen such an asinine and disingenuous comment.
@AdamDLDixon Between stump speeches from multimillionaires (i.e. Russell Simmons) and the the wanna-be 60's "activists" that pseudo-movement was an embarrassment. Are you familiar with the Tea Party? Bipartisan protests against big government and the global financial system that runs it all. And what, I wonder, is an "internet libertarian"? Are you suggesting that I only enjoy blasting idiots like Naomi Klein on the anonymous internet?
Isn't that the problem with leftists. They want to give more power to governments, who then in turn get taken over by lobbyists and corporations. How about we don't try and fight for an economic system that depends on the right person, pushing the right button, at the right time. Can't we simply have limited government, and let the market decide where scarce resources should go?
@groam6666 Government will never be limited in the united states, as no country with such a large military will every allow for a limited government that is controlled by the people. Even the TeaParty that claim to want a smaller government would actually implement a larger government as the only way to enforce their "conservative" agenda. The left wants corporate control out of the state because it is not democratic. One corporate lobbyist has more power than millions of voters.
@groam6666 But I totally disagree with Klein and her followers when they advocate nationalization of companies. This is a dangerous route to go, because in reality it will only be nationalized for a period of time, and then sold to the highest bidder (which means to those with connections). And again you have a system in which the people pay to build a company, or get it out of debt, and then when it is doing well give it to those who have money to ruin it again.
The fundamental principle that we need to grapple with is this , Humanity cannot be treated as batteries of energy so a few can enrich and empower themselves the consequence is a world of war,poverty,exploitation,enviornmental destruction and many other terrible ongoing challenges, or We share the earth for all generations to come in harmony and cooperation for our material and emotional needs, We need to understand our common source and our common destiny.
@hardworkuk : The reason I do not why America was founded on the Republic form of government and NOT the democratic model, is because, in a democracy. 50.1 % of the people should not be able to make life hell for the other 49.9 %, which is what is made possible in a democratic system of government. Many people don't realize this and that is because the money people, who are in charge,want to be able to buy "the majority" which is easy to do and have them do their bidding..
What a complete nut-job. If she and people like her weren't such a threat to my freedom and liberties, she'd be downright adorable. Why does she care so much about the US's economic model anyway? Does this mean I should move to.. say Hungary and get all up in their economics and making a stink about how unfair life is? WHAAA!! I'm Naomia and it's NOT FAIR!
Shut up, go back to Canada, and have a great day.
It proves that you do not have respect to Democracy... Naomi pays tax to US Govt. threfore she has right to criticize the Govt. policies. You people do not belive in democracy...the true democracy comes from Communism where people are equal.
"And btw, the illusion of democracy is an insult to human intelligence" This is the first clear and unambiguous thing you have disclosed. For me, the U.S. Constitution is worth preserving, as is the fragile democracy which this document supports. I,too, would enjoy greater prosperity, as you, however, the means and ends that we respectively cleave to are at considerable variance. Good luck protesting your govt's sell-out!
Are u guys realizing Obama is a criminal yet ? O you do, a bit late eh ? haha, dipshits. You could see he was a criminal right from day 1: he loved wealth, O you all love wealth ? haha, then you got what you deserve with Obama !
Consequently we shud hav a system built around Human values. Not profit. Not competition. We need to set aside our trivial differences - our "*isms" - and focus on our common Human goals - which are far greater than those superficialities, and differences in opinion. Our individual goals can only reach their full potential when considered within the greater framework of our collective goals. We need to re-evaluate our priorities, and ask ourselves whether or not money is an outdated concept.
@magicdarragh Trivial differences of "isms"? Now, c'mon, you can't possibly be that naive! You seem to place a lot of "capital" on the collective aspects of a society, when, in fact, I would say that the basis of such a discussion must come down to individual action. Your "discussion" of our moneyed economy is not trivial; it is immaterial. You seem to gravitate to issues of personal security; I consider the values of individual liberty and freedoms, including that of economic self-determination
@whiff1962 Economic "self-determination" is a very transparent attempt 2 justify the alleviation of responsibility on people 4 the consequences of their actions. It is we who ultimately determine our own economics. There is no "natural state" of equilibium. If we choose 2 opt for a system which runs on a for-profit basis we necessarily put that before people. My discussion was nt immaterial - money is currently a means to acquire goods and services, but it doesn't hav 2 b.. watch zeitg addendum
@magicdarragh for-profit basis we necessarily put that before people: utter Bullshit, simpletonian, Utopian economics! The precept of ALL capitalist enterprise is to make a profit; and it is this basis of measure that has done well to adjudge values and to determine the means to this (profit) end. It doesn't take a economics genius to see how well the mechanisms of free-enterprise have done for so many, including a wider distribution of wealth, goods and services!
@whiff1962 "How many times can a man turn his head and pretend that he just doesn't see!" - The times, they are a'changin' my friend- "You're old road is rapidly fadin' - now get off the new one if you can't lend a hand..."
Ur right - it doesn't take an economic genius to see how well free-enterprise has served us - only a self-deluded sheep! Would you plz not reply to me until you've checked out that documentary?! Ur jst bickering with me in this last comment. And ignorance begets the same..
@whiff1962 I am a rational realist - but my stating that may not provide proof to that effect - look to my comments below for that. Have you not read any of my comments? You are caught in a "us-and-them" trap, between left and right, socialists and free-marketeers, etc, etc. I ADVOCATE NEITHER POSITION. I advocate the complete upheavel of the fixed, corrupt power structures of our present day system through the annihilation of the means to that injust effect. Our problems are systemic.
@magicdarragh No I am not caught between a "them v. us"; I am simply stating what I see to be a "structural readjustment" (Klein's words, with a knowing smile) that is informed by a political and social vision that has only been repackaged, and rather shoddily. This is about those values that form the cornerstone of an open and free society, including our right to communicate our disagreements, against those who would no sooner usurp our (economic) freedoms for some notion of the "collective".
@whiff1962 What economic freedoms do we really have? And to what end are they in place?
Also, "structural readjustment" is so general a term that it could apply to both of our desires - but that is not to say that the change we wish to see is necessarily the same. I have found an online text of Human Action, which I will look at. Have you managed to find the documentary?
@magicdarragh The means and ways of an "ideology" might differ markedly, however, the ends are usually mutually consistent and recognizable, as in "national interests" and "greater prosperity". I suggest that you read up on the "other sides" thinking, notably, the Austrian School of economics. I am not interested in the video of which you speak; been there, done that.
@whiff1962 So you wrongfully speculate that I would have no interest in furthering my understanding of society, that I won't follow your suggestions, because I am "obviously comfortable expouding upon (my) irrationalist, Utopian economic beliefs" - yet you yourself are the only one "not interested" in expanding on their limited understanding. Hypocritical much?! And btw, the illusion of democracy is an insult to human intelligence - but I can't say I'm suprised that you fail to see through it...
There has already, averredly, been much in the way of harm done in the U.S. with the mechanisms of the free-market (in goods and services). I think that with the statists who think that the beneficience of the state, as principal actor on the economic scene, can do much to aleviate inequalities, I say, this appeal to the state qua "great equalizer", over time, has come at a cost. Any further vexations to Capitalism will not fix anything, but such will prove most costly in all its implications!
@whiff1962 (2nd post) I do put a lot of emphisis on collective goals. That is because society is composed of people, and every person is both an individual AND a part of society. Society is in turn a part of them. I don't believe a single person can be completely content within a profoundly sick society. We rise and fall together, not on the backs of one another.
@magicdarragh I don't disagree with your "collective" take on things, as you are simply stating a truism. However, the "individual" and the "collective" do figure contrastively in matters social, economic, and political, and by no means, let us forget what is wrought upon individuals, in ostensibly free and open societies, all in the name of "public" good and order. The Anglo-American jurisprudential tradition IS individualistic, as far as liberties and freedoms as a bulwark of our society.
@whiff1962 Individual goals & collective goals may indeed and at times be at ends with 1 another on those grounds, but that does not have to be, & ideally it must not be. Any justifiable force placed on people by society must only be used to prevent their deviance from the common goals. There is no society which operates in this manner. Since the beginning of written history, fixed power structures have always been in place, and they are still all-2-evident today. It's time 4 some real progress.
@magicdarragh Revolution! BTW, Have you checked out that documentary - zeitgeist addendum on google vids? It's not perfect, but it's a lot better than what we have now. Check it out, and let me know what you thought. My email's magicdarragh at gmail.
"Consequently we shud (sic) hav a system built around Human values" I would suggest you read Von Mise's "Human action" (certainly the first half of the book on praexology and that of value), and, his very short, easily digestible "Bureaucracy", a title as germane for our time as it was when it was written (just after the end of WWII). However, I don't see you taking up this suggestion, as you are obviously comfortable expouding upon your irrationalist, Utopian economic beliefs
@whiff1962 Why have you not yet watched the Zeitgeist Addendum documentary? Do you not intend to? Or will you continue to push your self-projected bias onto discussions, and squeeze them into the narrow and false categories of pro-gov ("statist") or pro-free market. Can you not think outside of this irreconcilable, narrow-minded box?
@whiff1962 And Yes, I will take up that suggestion. But do refrain from your constant ad hominem, hypocritical remarks regarding my being irrational and idealistic etc..
Hopefully the next time we correspond, we can discuss both the zeitgeist addendum documentary, and those two recommended books.
what we have in wetsern culture now is a neo-socialist corpatalist system not real free market system. to use the falacy of global warming or the new term climate change to nationalize our energy policy would be sheer folly as energy is one of the largest drivers of inflation. we would all suffer
@davidmaren2000 To believe that oil will last forever, without looking for alternatives is completely foolish. Do you want to bring on WW3? Before petrol, we used whale oil to light up lanterns.... And people like you were saying, "Don't go to petrol. Whale oil is the only way." You conservatives keep us in the past, but the world must move forward.
Naomi is a charming speaker but utterly clueless. She wants to "internationalize" Exxon and suck all the profits out to fund green energy. If all the profits go, all the shareholders go too, and they can't raise any money other than by force, i.e. taxes. Guess what? They will demand enormous, endless amounts of taxes.
@ItsFazsha I completely disagree that she's "clueless". The shareholders of a nationalized business would be the citizens of the nation. In turn, the shareholders of an internationalized business would be international citizens. And the profits of the business would ideally be distributed amongst these shareholders, and not a select-few elitist profiteers.
As for an increase in taxees - the nationalization of a profit-making businesses would actually alleviate the need for taxation.
@magicdarragh You may be even more ill-informed than she is. The entire raison d'etre for shareholders is that you can exchange your shares in the company to someone else for cash or something else you need. If a nationalized business 'tanks', who does one sell one's shares to? Answer: you don't, you're stuck. Your 'solution' actually would mean that you would give even MORE power to the select few who are running the day to day operations, because they could tax you to make up for losses.
@ItsFazsha "you can exchange your shares in the company to someone else for cash or something else you need" - what we need, according to Naomi Klein, is to tackle climate change. It beats creating profit-incentives for a few already rich individuals. The "select few" who run things are not government officials (mere puppets), but corporate & financial elitists. However, considering the government is in place to serve THEIR interests you could be right - what we need is a completely new system..
Nationalization? How about less govt. spending on wasteful, redundant, and generally meddlesome "public" services? All those unemployed bureaucrats, especially in the Union of Socialist European Republics (USER), would have to be "reabsorbed" into the now-flagging "private" sector. See the mess you got us in, Klein?! Oh, yes, dismantle most of the disability state, with the the millions of otherwise healthy "mentally-disturbed", collecting dole from my earnings! I could go on and on.
@magicdarragh We'll let Canada keep this librarian. How much do you want to have become "publc" and "nationalized"? Has anyone really asked himself what Klein and company advocate? Where is this beneficient state to which Klein alludes? Who are these angels that will manage our lives, and lighten our step? This is not what I have in mind, when I think of "public sector". No, this elitist, Klein, has a sinister bend, and I don't think that is quite an exaggeration. Still, Librarians creep me
@whiff1962 Hey man, I'm stuck in a catch 22 actually when it comes to gov. / priv. business! I reckon that neither provides the answer we're all looking for. We'd all like a society which enabled all its members to flourish. That cannot occur within a profit-based, competitive economy. We need an economic system which holds at its heart mankind's concern, which is free from the severe restrictions of competitiveness - opting instead for large-scale collaborative possibilities - and free from...
I went through my liberal phase years ago, but as I got older and began reading the very things that I experienced around me, I came to see the state as much of the problem. I am a Libertarian, and prefer to see myself as a "minarchist", with the state doing its Constitutionally appointed functions. Its interesting to learn what the govt. should do and not do, just by learning more about the U.S. Const. Still, many Europeans have known only Socialism, and take " personal" security as paramount.
@whiff1962 I wnt through my capitalist phase years ago, (lol, not that that matters!) but hav realized that what we all suffer from a systemic abuse of power. We need a system which eliminates the means for that abuse to occur, not one which (arguably) tries to deter it. The current means 4 that abuse to occur, as I have stated, is money - money, a means of servitude, can be accumulated in high concentrations in the hands of a few. Capitalism, Socialism, Liberalism, who the fk cares! We're Human
You are talking a state presence that can only do its job (making more individuals "flourish") by being more autocratic. Your argument, unbeknownst to you, mixes apples and oranges. You are obviously biased in that you see govt. as a means of redistributing wealth. In truth, the welfarist-entitlement states of America is very much in the business of such redistributions, and what good that does! Yes, Capitalism is the best, presently, and I don't see Klein, et. al., proffering better.
@whiff1962 (2nd post!) ...the means for mass injustices to occur - money. My prob with money is not that it is a means for servitude, but that great amounts of it can be accumulated/concentrated in the hands of a few. Instead of serving Money we shud Directly serve one another - only then will we best serve one anothers interests. Money is an outdated concept. We hav reached a time of technological progression that has enabled us 2 cater 4 all, though we all suffer from unequal distribution..
What you advocate with "taking care of each other", given the decidedly left-of-center perspective you gravitate towards, can only mean one thing: a bigger and meddlesome state. You are advocating for less of the private and more of the public, and that means, among other things, more govt.! Do you think that greed is only characteristically tied to Capitalist ventures? I take it you would frown on the inheretence of wealth, from family generation to the next? Money is outdated? What of Marxism?
Klein's central thesis, as proffered in her "Shock doctrine", is typical of a generalist, librarian type. She is, too, a complete hypocrite, in word and deed. Her views conform to the programme of a statist-socialist, and so, Klein is compelled to excoriate an economic system that has enriched her. For one, let her book "The shock doctrine" be made public domain, if she is so inimical to free-market Capitalism. In short, Klein is inclined to call America a Fascist state! And her solution?
@whiff1962 Why is Klein a hypocrite if she makes a profit from her book? She has never said people should not be paid for their work. I think you misunderstand socialism.
In her presence at a strike by city Librarians, she came to voice her support of a profession that was grossly underappreciated and underpaid, and railed against the discrimination shown (by whom?) of a profession dominated by WOMEN--in the crowd, at the time, there were plenty of male librarians. Klein reminds me of a Librarian, especially good at sentence structure, but not very adept at critical thought. Her panegyrics of the "public good" is shorn of any clarity.
Nor do I for that matter. What Klein clearly advocates is a statist-Socialism, whereby the state enlarges its scope of control over the managing of the "public" sphere. In effect, Klein sees govt. as a beneficient presence, and that it is only a question of reasserting state power to curb "corporate" evils, however such presents itself (who will guard the guardians?). In short, Klein is hostile to the very Free-market that has enriched her. Her thinking is typical of an elitist statist.
@TheDodgers81 Exactly, she made a profit, while excoriating the rest who seek profit in a free-market system. Her moral and poltical position is not merely that of extirpating the evils within the "system"; it is in her statist programme of enlarging the scope and control of the state, as some beneficient, paternalistic "leveler". Her views are unequivocally hostile of Free-marketism. I take it she would never attend a professional sporting event.
If people would only read more, and draw better conclusions on the respective merits of the two dominant economic systems, I think that "we" could dispense with the ad hominem attacks and the appeal to cults of personality. As I see it, Klein is, in the very least, being consistent, even if she must ignore the mote in her own eye.
JAMIE DIMON, CNBC, FOXBUSINESS AND CNN ANCHORS ARRESTED FOR ILLEGALLY ACCESSING AND MONITORING PRIVATE EMAILS AND PHONE CALLS.
THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN IN 1-3 MONTHS.
I AM GOING TO JUMP OFF THE GEORGE WASHINGTON BRIDGE IN 1-3 MONTHS AND COMMIT SUICIDE TO DEMONSTRATE THE SERIOUS OF THIS MATTER. JAMIE DIMON AND THESE TELEPROMPTER READERS WILL GO TO JAIL.
Naomi is correct, that the same scumbags that caused the crisis are now lined up in & out of government to benefit from the public bailout, by claiming to be the ones most suited to clean up the mess they have caused so that they'd be able to plunder the wealth of our nation.
There is no global warming, and there is no man made weather disruption.
Ms. Klein unfortunately does not connect the dots, that the environmental movement for a world carbon tax, is being perpetrated by the same mass murdering Debt Syndicate that she is complaining about that is slaughtering & plundering worldwide. People are paying for their own extermination, by the bankers. Carbon tax is a tax on human existance, designed to enslave us.
Criminals such as scumbag Friedman, are nothing but water boys for the mass murdering Debt Syndicate BANKERS. Think Tanks are ALL criminal conspiracy houses thinking up the next mass murder & plunder, paid for by BANKERS.
BANKERS ARE THE ENEMY
Ms. Klein ought to DENOUNCE with all her venom, World Bank, IMF, BIS, Federal Reserve System, Bank of London, all Central Banks, and must call for an IMMEDIATE ARREST OF ALL BANKERS!
Bailout: corporate socialism. If there are problems with capitalism, govt. can be found to be most complicit in engendering them. Look at the medical care industry, including health insurance.
Free market capitalism is a scam, it's synonomous to imperialism and colonialism. Financial institutions lend money to businesses then they deprive them of job opportunity by unregulated competion and then they seize their collateral assets.
Capitalism did indeed help to see the birthing of Imperialism and colonialism. However, the connection is not a "dialectical" one, so please, put away this sophmoric drivel. Might I sugggest you read some great minds in the field of history and economics, including Hayek, Von Mises, Popper, et. al. You are simply playing off the typical word fetish of left-leaning types, intent on blackening the eyes of Western civilization, that took centuries to develop. And radical socialis? Quo vadis?
@whiff1962 I'm sure there is a warm and nobel ideology behind capitalism but if the system is being exploited by certain power accumulating entities who deprive other players the opportunity to make a living it's time to leave behind the textbook ideology and look at this thing from a pragmatic point of view.
You make the category mistake of naming Capitalism a political ideology. Your assertion that there is a "warm and nobel ideology behind Capitalism" is a fallacious notion, as capitalism, unlike Marxist-socialism, is NOT a utopian empty promise. There are other historical forces at play that would explain the west's particular history, and capitalism is but one aspect of a rather complicated rubric. What of those measures at "equality" of the various totalitarian (Marxist) states?
@whiff1962 People support capitalism because they believe in reward and opportunity, "The American Dream" was a propagandized concept that historically created the public support for capitalism. This American dream worked alright until industrial technology and foreign trade policies took opportunity out of the equasion. I am not a socialist but I do think it's necessary to restrict foreign investments, corporate power and foreign trade policies that undermine public interest.
Government fingerprints are all over the problems and failures we face. The environmental lobbies are a far greater threat than any corporation out there. I wonder how much money she receives from the greenies, who are far richer than most companies. She is a fraud. Gibberish.
Our progressive evolution is dependent upon the collapse of our current society with the opportunity of rebuilding a new world based on sustainable foundation that is in harmony with the planet.. Only with complete transparancy wiil we be able to chart a more viable future for humanity. Quantum physics emphasizes a fundamental truth the" observer creates the world". Once we share the planet as ONE HUMAN COMMUNITY IN COOPERATION can the entire population make history consciously
@arzoyan Did you ever emerge from the womb? It's as if you've never lived a day of reality. Humans, including socialist governments, theoretically acting as a "cooperative community" , in reality, always act selfishly. Look at the corruption being systematically uncovered in California on the local government level (Bell Gardens, Vernon, etc). These "leaders of the people" were all skimming salaries 3 times more than Obama makes. Competition and citizen education is the only progressive sol
@rugbyguy59 Lol Friedman would destroy her as he did with many intellectuals except Klein isn't an intellectual or scholar so I suspect Friedman wouldn't even need 10 seconds. She is an economic illiterate who poses so many fallacies that Friedman would have no trouble dismantling her. She also has an annoying habit of blaming capitalism for the faults of corporatism. She is female Michael Moore and a joke among serious people.
@bonfirejovi He wins if you judge only theory and speculation. Klein dismantles his theory with actual events. Corporatism is the inevitable outcome of Friedman's economic theories. Deregulate and government retreat creates a power vacuum. Those who gain the advantage then shift the system to their own purposes. I'd rather have an accountable government than unaccountable corporations running the country. To get accountable government you have to put business in its place, the end not the means.
@rugbyguy59 Disagree. Corporations by their very nature only earn a profit if they provide the marketplace with something it wants. Governments, by contrast, can be as dastardly as they can imagine without ever serving a need truly desired by the public. Corporations are voted on every day. Some politicians - once every 6 yrs.
@ItsFazsha Nice free market theory. Reality is often that corporations are more than able to manipulate public and individual desires. It's called marketing. Oooh look a new toy that everyone else has. Hide the damaging things we do to get those low prices.
Government is far from perfect but it is the only force to serve our collective needs. They also face our collective wrath if they go wrong. Corporations may lose a customer or two but no real votes. People ignore many things for low prices.
@rugbyguy59 "Government is far from perfect but it is the only force to serve our collective needs." And who will then determine the ways and means of this? A skunk by any other name is still a skunk.
@whiff1962 If we adopt a more social democratic outlook or at least democratic vision, people will. If we reduce government or keep the same money games in play corporations and the wealthy will.
@rugbyguy59 "People ignore many things for low prices." It's called assumption of the risk. Learn something about Tort Law then speak you, fucking moron.
@ohcritson No, its called not giving a shit about your fellow man. Another amoral fuck head sounds off.
But speaking of Tort law there's another way that big corps have power over the little guy. Sure they'll pay out on a little claim and then put warning labels on their coffee cups but the real serious stuff they win via money alone. And of course a brain dead fuck like you probably wants to "reform" Tort Law making life even easier for corporations.
@rugbyguy59 Here's what you sound like: "WAAAAA! Nobody 'cares' about me! (/wrist)" Grow some fucking balls and work for what you get rather than pleading for the rest of society to supply you with what you "think" you "deserve."
"I swear by my life, and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine." -Ayn Rand
Read a book you mindless tool. You're fucking brainwashed. You're right. I don't give a fuck about you, your friends or family.
@rugbyguy59 Wow, /applaud. Fantastic rebuttal! Was that based on you attempting to personally attack me or on some fact or statistic? Oh wait... you don't know what a source is, so you just assume instead. It's okay, because 87% of all statistics are made up on the spot, right?
@ohcritson Rebut what? You begin with me having no balls because I don't believe in a ego based world. Then you move on to the amoral quote by Rand. And you finish with "Mindless tool" "Fucking Brianwashed" "I don't give a..." Which of these required rebuttal other than a comment on your limited mental facilities?
I got the reply you erased. You just copied me, hypocrite.
You spout libertarian dogma. You're a typical kid whose read an Ayn Rand book or two and thinks they understand the world.
@rugbyguy59 Oh wait... I forgot you were perfect in your original response to my post by calling me an "amoral fuck head" and a "brain dead fuck." Did you not want me to give you a response with the same mentality? You talk about morals... who defines morals? That deceptive collaboration of fairy tales you read called "The Bible"? You watch a Naomi Klein video and all of a sudden you're an expert economist, right?! You truly are ignorant. Do the world a favor and put a bullet through your face.
I really pity you. What horrible thing has happened to you in this life? You only have 23 years under your belt and yet all this anger and hatred. But I suspect you've been reading too much Rand, listening to too much Beck, drinking too much tea. All that leads one to fail to understanding real history and the difference between real freedom and real oppression.
I don't pretend to know all or have all solutions. Apparently you do.
@rugbyguy59 Wait, so now you're calling someone out on their age as if it's a valid argument against any type of debate they bring to the table? Don't try to use a guise of purity when you used vulgarity in your earlier posts. I don't listen to Glenn Beck, "if you're interested" (oh noes! I copied you!). "Real history" huh? What you fail to realize is those who win the war, writes the history.
You pretend to know more than others simply because your older. Age isn't a factor.
@ohcritson It is only a valid comment when the young exhibit only the arrogance of youth. I've met loads of brilliant young people who are developing wisdom. You don't seem to be one. You claim to have owned me in this debate. Actually it isn't a debate. All we've really done is throw insults back and forth. But to win a debate you do have to provide an argument. Other than suggesting I don't know Tort Law (an assertion not an argument) you have presented nothing. You want respect then show some
@rugbyguy59 And you're right. I am filled with hate... I'm filled with hate because people like you and Naomi Klein (who live in Canada) apparently think you have a say-so as to what goes on in the United States. You read too much Mussolini, Marx, Lenin and Klein.
Yeah... drinking tea leads to the "failure" of understanding "real" history. Wow dude, you're a joke. If you got owned in a debate online by a "23 year old" that shows a lot for all of your "research" and "studies."
@rugbyguy59 By the way, the comment I erased was pretty much the same as the one that is clearly posted now. There was an error that prevented it from appearing right away. But it's ok... go ahead and think what you will, if you're even capable of thinking on your own.
@ohcritson We get copies of these things by e-mail you know. Your reply was; "Quoting Naomi Klein about economics even though she has no idea what she's talking about. Wow you really are brain dead."
So now you get caught lying. It is a duplicate of what I said and it isn't the one you clearly posted.
@rugbyguy59 Oh do we??? I didn't realize I was using my e-mail to frequently check and see if you had yet to post a response to further support your previous claims, but it turned out to be your typical mudslinging. You boasting that I am supposedly a liar now, yet it still doesn't support your previous claims about economic/social systems or Naomi Klein.
It's apparent that you have no rebuttal but are just going to continue down your current path. It's ok, you're just afraid to admit defeat.
@rugbyguy59 Yeah, the company putting warning labels on their products is to prevent their misuse and being blamed for the ignorance of the consumer. I wouldn't be surprised if you were one of the people who stuck their dick in the vacuum cleaner, but no one told you it wasn't supposed to be used for that purpose right?
@centurion180ad Who said I followed Adam Smith? Just because he promoted free markets doesn't mean I agree with everything he said or that he was the ONLY one to espouse free mkts. I follow Ludwig von Mises.
@ItsFazsha If you follow Von Mises, then you’d be agreeing with greater than 95% of what Adam Smith was saying in his time. Von Mises & Adam Smith vary on 2 fundamental points.
Von Mises is /slightly/ less critical of government intervention, and Von Mises died before coming to the realization that a present good in hand such as a gold or silver coin, can //never// be wholly substituted for even by a Convertible Banknote. He was headed that way, but sadly died.
@centurion180ad "von Mises is slightly less critical of government intervention" wow, you must be brain dead or know nothing about economics. Oh wait, you know everything about economics based on the videos of your favorite "economist" Naomi Klein. It's funny how all of these sociologists and social workers tend to believe they know everything about an economy and can predict what has/will happen(ed).
@centurion180ad Now you're saying that b/c I follow Mises, and YOU say Mises & Smith agree 95%, and that Smith hated corps, that my defense of corps is somehow flawed b/c Mises must somewhere have hated corps too. I find no evidence that Mises ever was negative on corps. Let's drop this, b/c you're trying to convince me the person I align myself w had an opinion the opposite of mine, w/o any evidence.
Her paternal grandparents were communists who began to turn against the Soviet Union after the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact and had abandoned communism by 1956. In 1942 her grandfather Phil Klein, an animator at Disney, was fired as an agitator after the Disney animators' strike,[3] and went to work at a shipyard instead. Klein's father grew up surrounded by ideas of social justice and racial equality, but found it "difficult and frightening to be the child of Communists.
I am shocked by how many of us on the left don't realize yet that "Anthropogenic Global Warming" is a Capitalist agenda. The left have been co opted into believing it so that the right can prop up the Nuclear Industry, raise oil prices and devise a new derivative ponzi scheme in "Carbon Credits."
To the fans of Naomi Klein, I'd really like to see you explain HOW capitalism is dehumanizing and evil. And not by using anti-intellectual pseudo-arguments like greed. So far, I have never encountered a statist who can use the syllogism and not ad populum emotional appeals.
@truevoice08 First of all, are you genuinly interested in finding out what's wrong and immoral? I'm not very sure you know. There are truths that no skilled speaker, no ballade mascarade can mitigate. I discovered her point just recently and I'm about to finish this shattering book. Why is it dehumanizing, for it's contempt towards social issues, its explotation of the working class, irresponsible greed.. You are invited to watch her documentary the take.
@raisinsunn If it's an argument worth anything then it can be explained in a Youtube comments post. If I need to read a whole book to understand the argument then it probably means there's no argument. It's just polemics, which it really is.
@ohcritson This is a war and you're a legitimate target, we'll motherfuck you. You bitches better walk around with bodyguards.. We'll overthrow your asses
@raisinsunn I love the hostility. I can see you do nothing but support the Totalitarian aspect of the socialist agenda. It's okay, I'll let your hostility slide for now. I don't need a bodyguard, I can defend myself. Better think twice before you try to attack me, it may be your own demise.
We now have houses that are sold complete with solar panels to provide 100% of all energy needs(they are off the grid entirely). These houses cost less than their dependent equivalents. One house in NJ makes all its energy plus all the energy for it's cars from one set of solar panels and innovative use of hydrogen. NJ is not a very sunny state yet he makes all the energy he needs year around to heat and cool and run his LED panel tvs, fridges,etc plus drive his car from one solar panel array.
TruthInjector 1 month ago
Simply switching over everyone to using electric vehicles alone would wipe out our need for imported oil. (just the past few years we have gone from 65% imports of oil to barely over 43%-- we now use mostly domestic oil). Electric cars could charge overnight using electric power that is otherwise wasted on the grid. We also could easily convert cars to use natural gas which the US has hundreds of years worth. People could refill their cars in their garage(electric or natural gas).
TruthInjector 1 month ago
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TruthInjector 1 month ago
She's smart. As smart as Meghan McCain and Janeane Garofalo and Tim Robbins. She doesn't regurgitate leftwing nonsense at all. How do I know? She put on her glasses.
RoboSlater 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
stop the new world order an the police state, end thed feds ron paul 2012
d0ct0rd3ath 2 months ago
You left wingers crashed this economy with your policies on banking, so quit blaming others for it. You guys also bought into the global warming fantasy. You people are being used by the elites. They are destroying the small banks with this manufactured crisis,and setting up a global tax with a chicken little fairy tale that will prop them up as the worlds undisputed government. Try to open up your mind and do some objecttive research for yourself once in a while.
hoggzski 3 months ago
@zdrux obviously for my changes to occur those people and their big-oil, war on terror and other scams, would have to be removed. In the USA we are a democracy- mostly representative, but we the People are the government. These people serve us, not the other way around. The changes need to be made to save the country, the economy and the environment- first the neocon-moron-fascist-mobsters must go and with them their divide and conquer 2-party system and the legalized bribery election process
TruthInjector 3 months ago
@TruthInjector Agreed
zdrux 3 months ago
naomi klien for president 2012
1202388 3 months ago
@1202388 naomi klien for president of what, the Meghan McCain Intellectual Society?
RoboSlater 2 months ago
God damn Naomi Klein is HOT. Shes like a really smart and well educated Sara Palin. But hotter.
metyzermanfan19 3 months ago
The insanity of lobbying, it's immorality and it's obscenity is simply stunning. It is also stunning that the American people have seen to keep it going and still don't protest against it.
reverenceforall 4 months ago
The fact is we need to realize that not going green is far more costly. The price of oil is a very big part of the reason we are having economic problems in addition to the multi-trillion dollar banking scam and the defense complex. With a major effort the US govt could end all imports of oil and super charge the economy by switching us over to hydrogen - electric vehicles and other measures. It could be done in just 2 years flat. Super fund innovative concepts would make the US the top exporter
TruthInjector 4 months ago 4
@TruthInjector Are you stupid? I've heard some really extreme leftist people before but nothing like that. I even think John Keyes would call you an extremist. End all imports of oil... nigga please.
antonio3p1 1 month ago
@TruthInjector there is no infrastructure to support these changes you say are so easy. How many hydrogen refueling stations are there? How long does it take to charge a fully electric car? How much damage does it do to the environment to mine the nickel from canada send it to England and then Japan to be made into batteries and then put into a shitty little car? You lap up this leftist babble without a single independent thought. shame on you
kennedyt 5 days ago
And I think that as long as the majority of US people continue to think inside the box of the "Liberal-Democrat/Conservative-Republican" nonsense, they will fail to see the fact that they are mices electing cats to run their affairs.
ricardofuego 6 months ago
@ricardofuego Exactly. Bring down the parties. How do you know if a politician is lying? His lips are moving
BKsFiNeSt08 2 weeks ago
I'm from Argentina and she's totally right about the IMF and neoliberal economic policies. Sadly, I don't think puppet Obama would replace those Wall Street guys. He's there to continue imperial foreign policy with a friendly face, he's there to continue the transfer of wealth from the working and middle class to the rich, he's there to prolongue the political system he's part of.
ricardofuego 6 months ago
@groam6666 The problem is that perverse incentives live in private enterprise as well. Some would say that the difference in accountability between the leader of Exxon and the leader of the US is the US leader has reporters following him around and can be voted out every 4 years.
The idea that lack of government interference in a market is the same thing as a free market that will always be won by the most efficient is a libertarian fairy tail.
sfjeff1089 6 months ago 2
Lol, got to love how butthurt right whingers try to defend the bailout when it lined the pockets of the top 0.1% only. The funny thing is riech wingers seriously believe they are only temporarily low or middle class, and that one day they too will be millionaires and thus they vote preemptively to help their future self which is totally imaginary. American libertarianism is the childish preoccupation with being an inconsiderate douche.
AdamDLDixon 7 months ago 8
@AdamDLDixon Any "right whinger" who defends the bailouts in not a right winger. Just a little bonus for you that you didn't know before. You're welcome.
zdrux 3 months ago
@zdrux Great point. They obviously needed the clarification.
RoboSlater 2 months ago
@AdamDLDixon What are you talking about? The problem is corruption, crony capitalism. Big government is the problem. If government keeps getting in the way as it is happening now things will get worse. However Adam, I don't expect you to understand that.
Zresponder 2 weeks ago
@Zresponder
>What are you talking about? The problem is corruption, crony capitalism. Big government is the problem.
Ok the the first of your sentences i obviously agree with. But the leap in the second sentence is absurd. How do you connect size of government with corruption? Surely they are separate issues. I presume you are a libertarian, and in a fully private economy this corruption would be even worse as there would be no democratic accountability to Corporate decisions.
AdamDLDixon 2 weeks ago
@AdamDLDixon real "right wingers" opposed the bailout. In a truly capitalist system no company is too big to fail and no one gets bailed out by the government. I don't think I've ever seen such an asinine and disingenuous comment.
kennedyt 5 days ago
@kennedyt I hear this a lot from internet libertarians.
Last time i checked it was left wing activists on the streets opposing this issue.
It is called occupy wallstreet.
I never have seen any protest by internet libertarians. The tea party merely complained about social spending and always criticize occupy.
Concentrated power will dominate us, unless it is spread out by democracy.
AdamDLDixon 5 days ago
@AdamDLDixon Between stump speeches from multimillionaires (i.e. Russell Simmons) and the the wanna-be 60's "activists" that pseudo-movement was an embarrassment. Are you familiar with the Tea Party? Bipartisan protests against big government and the global financial system that runs it all. And what, I wonder, is an "internet libertarian"? Are you suggesting that I only enjoy blasting idiots like Naomi Klein on the anonymous internet?
kennedyt 5 days ago
OH - Now I know where our beloved NHS is going in the UK.
United health waiting in the wings!!
Charliedog4040 7 months ago
Thank you for speaking the truth. I loved your book; won't even loan it to my friends without collateral.
kimp401 7 months ago
Isn't that the problem with leftists. They want to give more power to governments, who then in turn get taken over by lobbyists and corporations. How about we don't try and fight for an economic system that depends on the right person, pushing the right button, at the right time. Can't we simply have limited government, and let the market decide where scarce resources should go?
groam6666 7 months ago
@groam6666 You are wrong. Leftists want to give more power to the PEOPLE, not the government.
ricardofuego 6 months ago
@groam6666 Government will never be limited in the united states, as no country with such a large military will every allow for a limited government that is controlled by the people. Even the TeaParty that claim to want a smaller government would actually implement a larger government as the only way to enforce their "conservative" agenda. The left wants corporate control out of the state because it is not democratic. One corporate lobbyist has more power than millions of voters.
ihatekhomeini 5 months ago
@groam6666 But I totally disagree with Klein and her followers when they advocate nationalization of companies. This is a dangerous route to go, because in reality it will only be nationalized for a period of time, and then sold to the highest bidder (which means to those with connections). And again you have a system in which the people pay to build a company, or get it out of debt, and then when it is doing well give it to those who have money to ruin it again.
ihatekhomeini 5 months ago
@ihatekhomeini thats why you need laws to stop that from happening. the way i see it, its better than what we have now...
1202388 3 months ago
The fundamental principle that we need to grapple with is this , Humanity cannot be treated as batteries of energy so a few can enrich and empower themselves the consequence is a world of war,poverty,exploitation,enviornmental destruction and many other terrible ongoing challenges, or We share the earth for all generations to come in harmony and cooperation for our material and emotional needs, We need to understand our common source and our common destiny.
arzoyan 8 months ago
I'd do her. She's hot as fuck.
Jammsbro1 8 months ago
-- ThankYou Naomi --- & thank you Peter Gabriel ---
-- " The resolution or the fruitless searches -- - in your eyes - the light the heat " -- [ OMG -- I think I'm in LUV ]
isaysee 8 months ago
Stability is another word for oppression.
bradchesney11 10 months ago
why must video productions like this seek to ruin a good speech by NaiomiKlein????
finalnexus 10 months ago
seek the truth. at iamthewitness ... org
rikky702 10 months ago
Nationalize? Why not just radically reform, break up monopoly? Otherwise Marx-Lenin lurks...
orbis2009 11 months ago
Why do Americans not want democracy? Democracy is the rule of the people.
hardworkuk 11 months ago
@hardworkuk : The reason I do not why America was founded on the Republic form of government and NOT the democratic model, is because, in a democracy. 50.1 % of the people should not be able to make life hell for the other 49.9 %, which is what is made possible in a democratic system of government. Many people don't realize this and that is because the money people, who are in charge,want to be able to buy "the majority" which is easy to do and have them do their bidding..
Evangelander 9 months ago
@hardworkuk Democracy means voting for dictatorship.
Jammsbro1 8 months ago
Not Democracy, but that's the word you Capitalists push to market your "CONSITUTIONAL REPUBLIC".
Zizz0n 11 months ago
What a complete nut-job. If she and people like her weren't such a threat to my freedom and liberties, she'd be downright adorable. Why does she care so much about the US's economic model anyway? Does this mean I should move to.. say Hungary and get all up in their economics and making a stink about how unfair life is? WHAAA!! I'm Naomia and it's NOT FAIR!
Shut up, go back to Canada, and have a great day.
countchocula6969 1 year ago
@countchocula6969
It proves that you do not have respect to Democracy... Naomi pays tax to US Govt. threfore she has right to criticize the Govt. policies. You people do not belive in democracy...the true democracy comes from Communism where people are equal.
Maxsarkar 1 year ago
@Maxsarkar We are not a Democracy...we are a CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC.
cdoug1 1 year ago
She's a genius. Friedman's ideas are dead, as dead as he is. The Chicago School of economics should be closed and it's members institutionalized.
ChrisDutch 1 year ago
interest rates on fiat money must be asymptotic to zero,
value added tax must be asymptotic to zero,
interest on money should be fed back to high value added activities,
value added tax must be fed back to high value added activities.
The energy and talent will follow, the option is the current simulation of free markets
lvildos 1 year ago
"And btw, the illusion of democracy is an insult to human intelligence" This is the first clear and unambiguous thing you have disclosed. For me, the U.S. Constitution is worth preserving, as is the fragile democracy which this document supports. I,too, would enjoy greater prosperity, as you, however, the means and ends that we respectively cleave to are at considerable variance. Good luck protesting your govt's sell-out!
whiff1962 1 year ago
Are u guys realizing Obama is a criminal yet ? O you do, a bit late eh ? haha, dipshits. You could see he was a criminal right from day 1: he loved wealth, O you all love wealth ? haha, then you got what you deserve with Obama !
wwwjhwhbe 1 year ago
Consequently we shud hav a system built around Human values. Not profit. Not competition. We need to set aside our trivial differences - our "*isms" - and focus on our common Human goals - which are far greater than those superficialities, and differences in opinion. Our individual goals can only reach their full potential when considered within the greater framework of our collective goals. We need to re-evaluate our priorities, and ask ourselves whether or not money is an outdated concept.
magicdarragh 1 year ago
@magicdarragh Trivial differences of "isms"? Now, c'mon, you can't possibly be that naive! You seem to place a lot of "capital" on the collective aspects of a society, when, in fact, I would say that the basis of such a discussion must come down to individual action. Your "discussion" of our moneyed economy is not trivial; it is immaterial. You seem to gravitate to issues of personal security; I consider the values of individual liberty and freedoms, including that of economic self-determination
whiff1962 1 year ago
@whiff1962 Economic "self-determination" is a very transparent attempt 2 justify the alleviation of responsibility on people 4 the consequences of their actions. It is we who ultimately determine our own economics. There is no "natural state" of equilibium. If we choose 2 opt for a system which runs on a for-profit basis we necessarily put that before people. My discussion was nt immaterial - money is currently a means to acquire goods and services, but it doesn't hav 2 b.. watch zeitg addendum
magicdarragh 1 year ago
@magicdarragh for-profit basis we necessarily put that before people: utter Bullshit, simpletonian, Utopian economics! The precept of ALL capitalist enterprise is to make a profit; and it is this basis of measure that has done well to adjudge values and to determine the means to this (profit) end. It doesn't take a economics genius to see how well the mechanisms of free-enterprise have done for so many, including a wider distribution of wealth, goods and services!
whiff1962 1 year ago
@whiff1962 "How many times can a man turn his head and pretend that he just doesn't see!" - The times, they are a'changin' my friend- "You're old road is rapidly fadin' - now get off the new one if you can't lend a hand..."
Ur right - it doesn't take an economic genius to see how well free-enterprise has served us - only a self-deluded sheep! Would you plz not reply to me until you've checked out that documentary?! Ur jst bickering with me in this last comment. And ignorance begets the same..
magicdarragh 1 year ago
@magicdarragh Well, through all your Utopian, irrationalist views, you did make (ineffectual) use of a piece of irony.
whiff1962 1 year ago
@whiff1962 I am a rational realist - but my stating that may not provide proof to that effect - look to my comments below for that. Have you not read any of my comments? You are caught in a "us-and-them" trap, between left and right, socialists and free-marketeers, etc, etc. I ADVOCATE NEITHER POSITION. I advocate the complete upheavel of the fixed, corrupt power structures of our present day system through the annihilation of the means to that injust effect. Our problems are systemic.
magicdarragh 1 year ago
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And this is why you live in Ireland?
whiff1962 1 year ago
@magicdarragh No I am not caught between a "them v. us"; I am simply stating what I see to be a "structural readjustment" (Klein's words, with a knowing smile) that is informed by a political and social vision that has only been repackaged, and rather shoddily. This is about those values that form the cornerstone of an open and free society, including our right to communicate our disagreements, against those who would no sooner usurp our (economic) freedoms for some notion of the "collective".
whiff1962 1 year ago
@whiff1962 What economic freedoms do we really have? And to what end are they in place?
Also, "structural readjustment" is so general a term that it could apply to both of our desires - but that is not to say that the change we wish to see is necessarily the same. I have found an online text of Human Action, which I will look at. Have you managed to find the documentary?
magicdarragh 1 year ago
@magicdarragh The means and ways of an "ideology" might differ markedly, however, the ends are usually mutually consistent and recognizable, as in "national interests" and "greater prosperity". I suggest that you read up on the "other sides" thinking, notably, the Austrian School of economics. I am not interested in the video of which you speak; been there, done that.
whiff1962 1 year ago
@whiff1962 So you wrongfully speculate that I would have no interest in furthering my understanding of society, that I won't follow your suggestions, because I am "obviously comfortable expouding upon (my) irrationalist, Utopian economic beliefs" - yet you yourself are the only one "not interested" in expanding on their limited understanding. Hypocritical much?! And btw, the illusion of democracy is an insult to human intelligence - but I can't say I'm suprised that you fail to see through it...
magicdarragh 1 year ago
There has already, averredly, been much in the way of harm done in the U.S. with the mechanisms of the free-market (in goods and services). I think that with the statists who think that the beneficience of the state, as principal actor on the economic scene, can do much to aleviate inequalities, I say, this appeal to the state qua "great equalizer", over time, has come at a cost. Any further vexations to Capitalism will not fix anything, but such will prove most costly in all its implications!
whiff1962 1 year ago
@whiff1962 (2nd post) I do put a lot of emphisis on collective goals. That is because society is composed of people, and every person is both an individual AND a part of society. Society is in turn a part of them. I don't believe a single person can be completely content within a profoundly sick society. We rise and fall together, not on the backs of one another.
magicdarragh 1 year ago
@magicdarragh I don't disagree with your "collective" take on things, as you are simply stating a truism. However, the "individual" and the "collective" do figure contrastively in matters social, economic, and political, and by no means, let us forget what is wrought upon individuals, in ostensibly free and open societies, all in the name of "public" good and order. The Anglo-American jurisprudential tradition IS individualistic, as far as liberties and freedoms as a bulwark of our society.
whiff1962 1 year ago
@whiff1962 Individual goals & collective goals may indeed and at times be at ends with 1 another on those grounds, but that does not have to be, & ideally it must not be. Any justifiable force placed on people by society must only be used to prevent their deviance from the common goals. There is no society which operates in this manner. Since the beginning of written history, fixed power structures have always been in place, and they are still all-2-evident today. It's time 4 some real progress.
magicdarragh 1 year ago
@magicdarragh Revolution! BTW, Have you checked out that documentary - zeitgeist addendum on google vids? It's not perfect, but it's a lot better than what we have now. Check it out, and let me know what you thought. My email's magicdarragh at gmail.
magicdarragh 1 year ago
@magicdarragh
"Consequently we shud (sic) hav a system built around Human values" I would suggest you read Von Mise's "Human action" (certainly the first half of the book on praexology and that of value), and, his very short, easily digestible "Bureaucracy", a title as germane for our time as it was when it was written (just after the end of WWII). However, I don't see you taking up this suggestion, as you are obviously comfortable expouding upon your irrationalist, Utopian economic beliefs
whiff1962 1 year ago
@whiff1962 Why have you not yet watched the Zeitgeist Addendum documentary? Do you not intend to? Or will you continue to push your self-projected bias onto discussions, and squeeze them into the narrow and false categories of pro-gov ("statist") or pro-free market. Can you not think outside of this irreconcilable, narrow-minded box?
magicdarragh 1 year ago
@whiff1962 And Yes, I will take up that suggestion. But do refrain from your constant ad hominem, hypocritical remarks regarding my being irrational and idealistic etc..
Hopefully the next time we correspond, we can discuss both the zeitgeist addendum documentary, and those two recommended books.
magicdarragh 1 year ago
Naomi Klein for president 2012!
HoldGovtAccountable 1 year ago
@HoldGovtAccountable We'll let Canada keep this librarian.
whiff1962 1 year ago
I know this is a stupid comment and I'll surely get lots of "thumbs down" but.... intelligent woman are sexy... :)
emilianosantos1 1 year ago
what we have in wetsern culture now is a neo-socialist corpatalist system not real free market system. to use the falacy of global warming or the new term climate change to nationalize our energy policy would be sheer folly as energy is one of the largest drivers of inflation. we would all suffer
davidmaren2000 1 year ago
@davidmaren2000 To believe that oil will last forever, without looking for alternatives is completely foolish. Do you want to bring on WW3? Before petrol, we used whale oil to light up lanterns.... And people like you were saying, "Don't go to petrol. Whale oil is the only way." You conservatives keep us in the past, but the world must move forward.
quicksiliva 1 year ago
Naomi is a charming speaker but utterly clueless. She wants to "internationalize" Exxon and suck all the profits out to fund green energy. If all the profits go, all the shareholders go too, and they can't raise any money other than by force, i.e. taxes. Guess what? They will demand enormous, endless amounts of taxes.
ItsFazsha 1 year ago
@ItsFazsha I completely disagree that she's "clueless". The shareholders of a nationalized business would be the citizens of the nation. In turn, the shareholders of an internationalized business would be international citizens. And the profits of the business would ideally be distributed amongst these shareholders, and not a select-few elitist profiteers.
As for an increase in taxees - the nationalization of a profit-making businesses would actually alleviate the need for taxation.
magicdarragh 1 year ago
@magicdarragh You may be even more ill-informed than she is. The entire raison d'etre for shareholders is that you can exchange your shares in the company to someone else for cash or something else you need. If a nationalized business 'tanks', who does one sell one's shares to? Answer: you don't, you're stuck. Your 'solution' actually would mean that you would give even MORE power to the select few who are running the day to day operations, because they could tax you to make up for losses.
ItsFazsha 1 year ago
@ItsFazsha "you can exchange your shares in the company to someone else for cash or something else you need" - what we need, according to Naomi Klein, is to tackle climate change. It beats creating profit-incentives for a few already rich individuals. The "select few" who run things are not government officials (mere puppets), but corporate & financial elitists. However, considering the government is in place to serve THEIR interests you could be right - what we need is a completely new system..
magicdarragh 1 year ago
Nationalization? How about less govt. spending on wasteful, redundant, and generally meddlesome "public" services? All those unemployed bureaucrats, especially in the Union of Socialist European Republics (USER), would have to be "reabsorbed" into the now-flagging "private" sector. See the mess you got us in, Klein?! Oh, yes, dismantle most of the disability state, with the the millions of otherwise healthy "mentally-disturbed", collecting dole from my earnings! I could go on and on.
whiff1962 1 year ago
@magicdarragh We'll let Canada keep this librarian. How much do you want to have become "publc" and "nationalized"? Has anyone really asked himself what Klein and company advocate? Where is this beneficient state to which Klein alludes? Who are these angels that will manage our lives, and lighten our step? This is not what I have in mind, when I think of "public sector". No, this elitist, Klein, has a sinister bend, and I don't think that is quite an exaggeration. Still, Librarians creep me
whiff1962 1 year ago
@whiff1962 Hey man, I'm stuck in a catch 22 actually when it comes to gov. / priv. business! I reckon that neither provides the answer we're all looking for. We'd all like a society which enabled all its members to flourish. That cannot occur within a profit-based, competitive economy. We need an economic system which holds at its heart mankind's concern, which is free from the severe restrictions of competitiveness - opting instead for large-scale collaborative possibilities - and free from...
magicdarragh 1 year ago
I went through my liberal phase years ago, but as I got older and began reading the very things that I experienced around me, I came to see the state as much of the problem. I am a Libertarian, and prefer to see myself as a "minarchist", with the state doing its Constitutionally appointed functions. Its interesting to learn what the govt. should do and not do, just by learning more about the U.S. Const. Still, many Europeans have known only Socialism, and take " personal" security as paramount.
whiff1962 1 year ago
@whiff1962 I wnt through my capitalist phase years ago, (lol, not that that matters!) but hav realized that what we all suffer from a systemic abuse of power. We need a system which eliminates the means for that abuse to occur, not one which (arguably) tries to deter it. The current means 4 that abuse to occur, as I have stated, is money - money, a means of servitude, can be accumulated in high concentrations in the hands of a few. Capitalism, Socialism, Liberalism, who the fk cares! We're Human
magicdarragh 1 year ago
You are talking a state presence that can only do its job (making more individuals "flourish") by being more autocratic. Your argument, unbeknownst to you, mixes apples and oranges. You are obviously biased in that you see govt. as a means of redistributing wealth. In truth, the welfarist-entitlement states of America is very much in the business of such redistributions, and what good that does! Yes, Capitalism is the best, presently, and I don't see Klein, et. al., proffering better.
whiff1962 1 year ago
@whiff1962 (2nd post!) ...the means for mass injustices to occur - money. My prob with money is not that it is a means for servitude, but that great amounts of it can be accumulated/concentrated in the hands of a few. Instead of serving Money we shud Directly serve one another - only then will we best serve one anothers interests. Money is an outdated concept. We hav reached a time of technological progression that has enabled us 2 cater 4 all, though we all suffer from unequal distribution..
magicdarragh 1 year ago
What you advocate with "taking care of each other", given the decidedly left-of-center perspective you gravitate towards, can only mean one thing: a bigger and meddlesome state. You are advocating for less of the private and more of the public, and that means, among other things, more govt.! Do you think that greed is only characteristically tied to Capitalist ventures? I take it you would frown on the inheretence of wealth, from family generation to the next? Money is outdated? What of Marxism?
whiff1962 1 year ago
How was this in October 2008 when Obama didn't take office until 2009?
jakiner 1 year ago
Klein's central thesis, as proffered in her "Shock doctrine", is typical of a generalist, librarian type. She is, too, a complete hypocrite, in word and deed. Her views conform to the programme of a statist-socialist, and so, Klein is compelled to excoriate an economic system that has enriched her. For one, let her book "The shock doctrine" be made public domain, if she is so inimical to free-market Capitalism. In short, Klein is inclined to call America a Fascist state! And her solution?
whiff1962 1 year ago
@whiff1962 Why is Klein a hypocrite if she makes a profit from her book? She has never said people should not be paid for their work. I think you misunderstand socialism.
TheDodgers81 1 year ago
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whiff1962 1 year ago
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whiff1962 1 year ago
In her presence at a strike by city Librarians, she came to voice her support of a profession that was grossly underappreciated and underpaid, and railed against the discrimination shown (by whom?) of a profession dominated by WOMEN--in the crowd, at the time, there were plenty of male librarians. Klein reminds me of a Librarian, especially good at sentence structure, but not very adept at critical thought. Her panegyrics of the "public good" is shorn of any clarity.
whiff1962 1 year ago
Nor do I for that matter. What Klein clearly advocates is a statist-Socialism, whereby the state enlarges its scope of control over the managing of the "public" sphere. In effect, Klein sees govt. as a beneficient presence, and that it is only a question of reasserting state power to curb "corporate" evils, however such presents itself (who will guard the guardians?). In short, Klein is hostile to the very Free-market that has enriched her. Her thinking is typical of an elitist statist.
whiff1962 1 year ago
@TheDodgers81 Exactly, she made a profit, while excoriating the rest who seek profit in a free-market system. Her moral and poltical position is not merely that of extirpating the evils within the "system"; it is in her statist programme of enlarging the scope and control of the state, as some beneficient, paternalistic "leveler". Her views are unequivocally hostile of Free-marketism. I take it she would never attend a professional sporting event.
whiff1962 1 year ago
If people would only read more, and draw better conclusions on the respective merits of the two dominant economic systems, I think that "we" could dispense with the ad hominem attacks and the appeal to cults of personality. As I see it, Klein is, in the very least, being consistent, even if she must ignore the mote in her own eye.
whiff1962 1 year ago
OHCRITSON is a rude, nasty & ignorant person. I suggest ignoring them, and not answering his postings.
centurion180ad 1 year ago
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111WLee 1 year ago
Naomi is correct, that the same scumbags that caused the crisis are now lined up in & out of government to benefit from the public bailout, by claiming to be the ones most suited to clean up the mess they have caused so that they'd be able to plunder the wealth of our nation.
centurion180ad 1 year ago
There is no global warming, and there is no man made weather disruption.
Ms. Klein unfortunately does not connect the dots, that the environmental movement for a world carbon tax, is being perpetrated by the same mass murdering Debt Syndicate that she is complaining about that is slaughtering & plundering worldwide. People are paying for their own extermination, by the bankers. Carbon tax is a tax on human existance, designed to enslave us.
BANKERS ARE THE ENEMY
centurion180ad 1 year ago
Criminals such as scumbag Friedman, are nothing but water boys for the mass murdering Debt Syndicate BANKERS. Think Tanks are ALL criminal conspiracy houses thinking up the next mass murder & plunder, paid for by BANKERS.
BANKERS ARE THE ENEMY
Ms. Klein ought to DENOUNCE with all her venom, World Bank, IMF, BIS, Federal Reserve System, Bank of London, all Central Banks, and must call for an IMMEDIATE ARREST OF ALL BANKERS!
centurion180ad 1 year ago
Bailout: corporate socialism. If there are problems with capitalism, govt. can be found to be most complicit in engendering them. Look at the medical care industry, including health insurance.
whiff1962 1 year ago
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whiff1962 1 year ago
Free market capitalism is a scam, it's synonomous to imperialism and colonialism. Financial institutions lend money to businesses then they deprive them of job opportunity by unregulated competion and then they seize their collateral assets.
August1977 1 year ago
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whiff1962 1 year ago
Capitalism did indeed help to see the birthing of Imperialism and colonialism. However, the connection is not a "dialectical" one, so please, put away this sophmoric drivel. Might I sugggest you read some great minds in the field of history and economics, including Hayek, Von Mises, Popper, et. al. You are simply playing off the typical word fetish of left-leaning types, intent on blackening the eyes of Western civilization, that took centuries to develop. And radical socialis? Quo vadis?
whiff1962 1 year ago
@whiff1962 I'm sure there is a warm and nobel ideology behind capitalism but if the system is being exploited by certain power accumulating entities who deprive other players the opportunity to make a living it's time to leave behind the textbook ideology and look at this thing from a pragmatic point of view.
August1977 1 year ago
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whiff1962 1 year ago
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whiff1962 1 year ago
You make the category mistake of naming Capitalism a political ideology. Your assertion that there is a "warm and nobel ideology behind Capitalism" is a fallacious notion, as capitalism, unlike Marxist-socialism, is NOT a utopian empty promise. There are other historical forces at play that would explain the west's particular history, and capitalism is but one aspect of a rather complicated rubric. What of those measures at "equality" of the various totalitarian (Marxist) states?
whiff1962 1 year ago
@whiff1962 People support capitalism because they believe in reward and opportunity, "The American Dream" was a propagandized concept that historically created the public support for capitalism. This American dream worked alright until industrial technology and foreign trade policies took opportunity out of the equasion. I am not a socialist but I do think it's necessary to restrict foreign investments, corporate power and foreign trade policies that undermine public interest.
August1977 1 year ago
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whiff1962 1 year ago
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whiff1962 1 year ago
@August1977 That would mean scaling down govt., not more bureaucratic-administrative meddling, like in European models.
whiff1962 1 year ago
Government fingerprints are all over the problems and failures we face. The environmental lobbies are a far greater threat than any corporation out there. I wonder how much money she receives from the greenies, who are far richer than most companies. She is a fraud. Gibberish.
mritsallcrap 1 year ago
Our progressive evolution is dependent upon the collapse of our current society with the opportunity of rebuilding a new world based on sustainable foundation that is in harmony with the planet.. Only with complete transparancy wiil we be able to chart a more viable future for humanity. Quantum physics emphasizes a fundamental truth the" observer creates the world". Once we share the planet as ONE HUMAN COMMUNITY IN COOPERATION can the entire population make history consciously
arzoyan 1 year ago
@arzoyan Did you ever emerge from the womb? It's as if you've never lived a day of reality. Humans, including socialist governments, theoretically acting as a "cooperative community" , in reality, always act selfishly. Look at the corruption being systematically uncovered in California on the local government level (Bell Gardens, Vernon, etc). These "leaders of the people" were all skimming salaries 3 times more than Obama makes. Competition and citizen education is the only progressive sol
rickbruner 1 year ago
She'd expose Friedman for the fraud he is in ten seconds.
rugbyguy59 1 year ago
@rugbyguy59 Lol Friedman would destroy her as he did with many intellectuals except Klein isn't an intellectual or scholar so I suspect Friedman wouldn't even need 10 seconds. She is an economic illiterate who poses so many fallacies that Friedman would have no trouble dismantling her. She also has an annoying habit of blaming capitalism for the faults of corporatism. She is female Michael Moore and a joke among serious people.
bonfirejovi 1 year ago
@bonfirejovi He wins if you judge only theory and speculation. Klein dismantles his theory with actual events. Corporatism is the inevitable outcome of Friedman's economic theories. Deregulate and government retreat creates a power vacuum. Those who gain the advantage then shift the system to their own purposes. I'd rather have an accountable government than unaccountable corporations running the country. To get accountable government you have to put business in its place, the end not the means.
rugbyguy59 1 year ago
@rugbyguy59 Disagree. Corporations by their very nature only earn a profit if they provide the marketplace with something it wants. Governments, by contrast, can be as dastardly as they can imagine without ever serving a need truly desired by the public. Corporations are voted on every day. Some politicians - once every 6 yrs.
ItsFazsha 1 year ago
@ItsFazsha Nice free market theory. Reality is often that corporations are more than able to manipulate public and individual desires. It's called marketing. Oooh look a new toy that everyone else has. Hide the damaging things we do to get those low prices.
Government is far from perfect but it is the only force to serve our collective needs. They also face our collective wrath if they go wrong. Corporations may lose a customer or two but no real votes. People ignore many things for low prices.
rugbyguy59 1 year ago
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@rugbyguy59 "Government is far from perfect but it is the only force to serve our collective needs." And who will then determine the ways and means of this? A skunk by any other name is still a skunk.
whiff1962 1 year ago
@whiff1962 If we adopt a more social democratic outlook or at least democratic vision, people will. If we reduce government or keep the same money games in play corporations and the wealthy will.
rugbyguy59 1 year ago
@rugbyguy59 I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you are writing. Might I suggest you reread your response, and edit your entry?
whiff1962 1 year ago
@rugbyguy59 "People ignore many things for low prices." It's called assumption of the risk. Learn something about Tort Law then speak you, fucking moron.
ohcritson 1 year ago
@ohcritson No, its called not giving a shit about your fellow man. Another amoral fuck head sounds off.
But speaking of Tort law there's another way that big corps have power over the little guy. Sure they'll pay out on a little claim and then put warning labels on their coffee cups but the real serious stuff they win via money alone. And of course a brain dead fuck like you probably wants to "reform" Tort Law making life even easier for corporations.
rugbyguy59 1 year ago
@rugbyguy59 Here's what you sound like: "WAAAAA! Nobody 'cares' about me! (/wrist)" Grow some fucking balls and work for what you get rather than pleading for the rest of society to supply you with what you "think" you "deserve."
"I swear by my life, and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine." -Ayn Rand
Read a book you mindless tool. You're fucking brainwashed. You're right. I don't give a fuck about you, your friends or family.
ohcritson 1 year ago
@ohcritson Quoting Ayn Rand, the ultimate sign of the intellectually disabled.
rugbyguy59 1 year ago
@rugbyguy59 Wow, /applaud. Fantastic rebuttal! Was that based on you attempting to personally attack me or on some fact or statistic? Oh wait... you don't know what a source is, so you just assume instead. It's okay, because 87% of all statistics are made up on the spot, right?
ohcritson 1 year ago
@ohcritson Rebut what? You begin with me having no balls because I don't believe in a ego based world. Then you move on to the amoral quote by Rand. And you finish with "Mindless tool" "Fucking Brianwashed" "I don't give a..." Which of these required rebuttal other than a comment on your limited mental facilities?
I got the reply you erased. You just copied me, hypocrite.
You spout libertarian dogma. You're a typical kid whose read an Ayn Rand book or two and thinks they understand the world.
rugbyguy59 1 year ago
@rugbyguy59 Oh wait... I forgot you were perfect in your original response to my post by calling me an "amoral fuck head" and a "brain dead fuck." Did you not want me to give you a response with the same mentality? You talk about morals... who defines morals? That deceptive collaboration of fairy tales you read called "The Bible"? You watch a Naomi Klein video and all of a sudden you're an expert economist, right?! You truly are ignorant. Do the world a favor and put a bullet through your face.
ohcritson 1 year ago
@ohcritson I'm an atheist if you're interested.
I really pity you. What horrible thing has happened to you in this life? You only have 23 years under your belt and yet all this anger and hatred. But I suspect you've been reading too much Rand, listening to too much Beck, drinking too much tea. All that leads one to fail to understanding real history and the difference between real freedom and real oppression.
I don't pretend to know all or have all solutions. Apparently you do.
rugbyguy59 1 year ago
@rugbyguy59 Wait, so now you're calling someone out on their age as if it's a valid argument against any type of debate they bring to the table? Don't try to use a guise of purity when you used vulgarity in your earlier posts. I don't listen to Glenn Beck, "if you're interested" (oh noes! I copied you!). "Real history" huh? What you fail to realize is those who win the war, writes the history.
You pretend to know more than others simply because your older. Age isn't a factor.
ohcritson 1 year ago
@ohcritson It is only a valid comment when the young exhibit only the arrogance of youth. I've met loads of brilliant young people who are developing wisdom. You don't seem to be one. You claim to have owned me in this debate. Actually it isn't a debate. All we've really done is throw insults back and forth. But to win a debate you do have to provide an argument. Other than suggesting I don't know Tort Law (an assertion not an argument) you have presented nothing. You want respect then show some
rugbyguy59 1 year ago
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rugbyguy59 1 year ago
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@ohcritson Don't begin with calling someone an f'ing moron.
rugbyguy59 1 year ago
@rugbyguy59 And you're right. I am filled with hate... I'm filled with hate because people like you and Naomi Klein (who live in Canada) apparently think you have a say-so as to what goes on in the United States. You read too much Mussolini, Marx, Lenin and Klein.
Yeah... drinking tea leads to the "failure" of understanding "real" history. Wow dude, you're a joke. If you got owned in a debate online by a "23 year old" that shows a lot for all of your "research" and "studies."
ohcritson 1 year ago
@rugbyguy59 By the way, the comment I erased was pretty much the same as the one that is clearly posted now. There was an error that prevented it from appearing right away. But it's ok... go ahead and think what you will, if you're even capable of thinking on your own.
ohcritson 1 year ago
@ohcritson We get copies of these things by e-mail you know. Your reply was; "Quoting Naomi Klein about economics even though she has no idea what she's talking about. Wow you really are brain dead."
So now you get caught lying. It is a duplicate of what I said and it isn't the one you clearly posted.
rugbyguy59 1 year ago
@rugbyguy59 Oh do we??? I didn't realize I was using my e-mail to frequently check and see if you had yet to post a response to further support your previous claims, but it turned out to be your typical mudslinging. You boasting that I am supposedly a liar now, yet it still doesn't support your previous claims about economic/social systems or Naomi Klein.
It's apparent that you have no rebuttal but are just going to continue down your current path. It's ok, you're just afraid to admit defeat.
ohcritson 1 year ago
@rugbyguy59 Yeah, the company putting warning labels on their products is to prevent their misuse and being blamed for the ignorance of the consumer. I wouldn't be surprised if you were one of the people who stuck their dick in the vacuum cleaner, but no one told you it wasn't supposed to be used for that purpose right?
ohcritson 1 year ago
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ohcritson 1 year ago
@ItsFazsha Adam Smith hated corporations, just has much as he hated government intrusion into natural law and natural economics.
centurion180ad 1 year ago
@centurion180ad Who said I followed Adam Smith? Just because he promoted free markets doesn't mean I agree with everything he said or that he was the ONLY one to espouse free mkts. I follow Ludwig von Mises.
ItsFazsha 1 year ago
@ItsFazsha If you follow Von Mises, then you’d be agreeing with greater than 95% of what Adam Smith was saying in his time. Von Mises & Adam Smith vary on 2 fundamental points.
Von Mises is /slightly/ less critical of government intervention, and Von Mises died before coming to the realization that a present good in hand such as a gold or silver coin, can //never// be wholly substituted for even by a Convertible Banknote. He was headed that way, but sadly died.
centurion180ad 1 year ago
@centurion180ad "von Mises is slightly less critical of government intervention" wow, you must be brain dead or know nothing about economics. Oh wait, you know everything about economics based on the videos of your favorite "economist" Naomi Klein. It's funny how all of these sociologists and social workers tend to believe they know everything about an economy and can predict what has/will happen(ed).
ohcritson 1 year ago
@centurion180ad Now you're saying that b/c I follow Mises, and YOU say Mises & Smith agree 95%, and that Smith hated corps, that my defense of corps is somehow flawed b/c Mises must somewhere have hated corps too. I find no evidence that Mises ever was negative on corps. Let's drop this, b/c you're trying to convince me the person I align myself w had an opinion the opposite of mine, w/o any evidence.
ItsFazsha 1 year ago
@bonfirejovi You forgot to call her views facile.
whiff1962 1 year ago
naomi couldnt have handled milton for 10 secs
Illumified 1 year ago
Her paternal grandparents were communists who began to turn against the Soviet Union after the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact and had abandoned communism by 1956. In 1942 her grandfather Phil Klein, an animator at Disney, was fired as an agitator after the Disney animators' strike,[3] and went to work at a shipyard instead. Klein's father grew up surrounded by ideas of social justice and racial equality, but found it "difficult and frightening to be the child of Communists.
johnnecron 1 year ago
She's hot..
blueraiderfn 1 year ago
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I am shocked by how many of us on the left don't realize yet that "Anthropogenic Global Warming" is a Capitalist agenda. The left have been co opted into believing it so that the right can prop up the Nuclear Industry, raise oil prices and devise a new derivative ponzi scheme in "Carbon Credits."
canaan1967 1 year ago
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canaan1967 1 year ago
have any of you people ever even HEARD of milton friedman?????
samm1809 1 year ago
To the fans of Naomi Klein, I'd really like to see you explain HOW capitalism is dehumanizing and evil. And not by using anti-intellectual pseudo-arguments like greed. So far, I have never encountered a statist who can use the syllogism and not ad populum emotional appeals.
truevoice08 1 year ago
@truevoice08 I suggest you to read her "The Shock Doctrine". You will learn a lot.
raisinsunn 1 year ago
@raisinsunn
/watch?v=k3r0zzz3SLA&feature=PlayList&p=51062BE506EB8E23&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=22
truevoice08 1 year ago
@raisinsunn Why don't you give me an argument so we can address it here for all the world to see.
truevoice08 1 year ago
@truevoice08 First of all, are you genuinly interested in finding out what's wrong and immoral? I'm not very sure you know. There are truths that no skilled speaker, no ballade mascarade can mitigate. I discovered her point just recently and I'm about to finish this shattering book. Why is it dehumanizing, for it's contempt towards social issues, its explotation of the working class, irresponsible greed.. You are invited to watch her documentary the take.
raisinsunn 1 year ago
@raisinsunn If it's an argument worth anything then it can be explained in a Youtube comments post. If I need to read a whole book to understand the argument then it probably means there's no argument. It's just polemics, which it really is.
truevoice08 1 year ago
@truevoice08 I think you are disingenious.
raisinsunn 1 year ago
@raisinsunn That's why we don't pay you to think.
ohcritson 1 year ago
@ohcritson This is a war and you're a legitimate target, we'll motherfuck you. You bitches better walk around with bodyguards.. We'll overthrow your asses
raisinsunn 1 year ago
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ohcritson 1 year ago
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ohcritson 1 year ago
@raisinsunn I love the hostility. I can see you do nothing but support the Totalitarian aspect of the socialist agenda. It's okay, I'll let your hostility slide for now. I don't need a bodyguard, I can defend myself. Better think twice before you try to attack me, it may be your own demise.
ohcritson 1 year ago