The Veil and Hijab 2

[heedo94]

one thing to say: NEVER judge hijab unless you've worn it.

[nuthnlasts4eva]

@malailuzija well in my country ie England; most rapests claim "she was aking for it" because of the way the women are dressed.there is no place in this world where a man or woman can walk down the street half naked and not face somkind of harrasment (whether that just is being perved on).you dont seem to have a problem with the way nuns dress - muslimwomen cover the exact same parts of the bodies as nuns. if ur so for freedom of choice let us wear what we want.

[openyoureyesandlook]

"We all know that every precious thing is protected and covered like jewels and diamonds. Similarly, Allah (swt) consider muslim women as precious as diamonds" : )

[malailuzija]

if muslem women have to be covered because of their men's lust, which means they are considered as sexual objects without any rights and also considered as a MAN'S PROPERTY, why don't the men just simply cover their own eyes instead (if they can't watch without thinking about sex, that is pathetic)

[nuthnlasts4eva]

muslim women cover up because they want to be judges fr who they are nt for what they look like - if u think its so pathetic u need to wake up and look at the world around u where all women r treated as sexual object ( in the media and in the streets) If its okay with to walk down the street half naked in a so called mini skirt why cant i have my own opinion and freedon to cover my self up. FYI even men have a dress code in islam.

[nuthnlasts4eva]

and unlike in the unislamic world where a woman is just a sexual object as evident in the popularity of strip clubs, gentlemens clubs and simply every day unislamic life a muslim woman is treated as an equal and her beauty is there for those that appreciate its nt for every tom dick and harry

[malailuzija]

it's the opposite - in my country you can walk half naked in the street in the summer and nobody will harm you, or comment. you are free to wear what you want and don't have to hide yourself.

[imeankhan]

there was a period of islam where,when the angles see a woman then angles get shame because of full hijab,the period is today where we have left it so please adopt it as we can become respectable in the sight of allah thanks.

[yaaraful]

@imeankhan when was this period when the angles saw a woman they got ashmed bcs of full hijab ? Can you tell me from where did u get this information from ?

[imeankhan]

@yaaraful i didn't mentioned about ashamed,i told about shame.

and offcourse that period was the period of hazrat muhammed s.a.w and these stories were repeated in bani israel.

thanks

[yaaraful]

and chances are she will survive bcs as long women dont look like prostitues men can keep themselves and their emotions in control but its become hard to control when women are dressed like prostitute bcs then all wht u see is ahmburger with cheese and kebab and salad and feel like u wana just swallow it before any one does this like a hungry dog the West should give respect ot women and not make them decorative objects where every one can see them and be seduced that is not respect that s rape

[yaaraful]

And this hijab and niqab thing cool down men bcs jut imagine a beautiful hot sexy cute women passing by you and u can see her curves and make a picture of her in the mind and u will want to fuck her right away bcs what will u do when fresh meat dances in front of u and ur penis becomes erect and u become naughty now imagine a Muslim women passing by with a niqab now u cant see what s inside is it a hot sexy cute woman or an uglu old annoying one so she will just pass by and u will be cool

[hajjashali]

@yaaraful Heyyyyy hold on man!!!! Wait a minute! Agreed that women shouldn't behave like cougars and dress up modestly. Point taken. But for God's sake don't reduce us men to penis heads...as we are nothing but dogs sniffing around for a bang. You should be ashamed to denigrate Muslim men in this terrible a fashion. Don't you fast? I wonder what have you ever gained from Ramadan, if not restraint, patience and looking away?!???! Shame on you.

[yaaraful]

@hajjashali lolz I am not reducing men to penis head but just trying to explain the westeners about the real prupose and benefits of hijab. And you may know that its very hard to explain to them now adays so you have to give your best shot and all that you have got in order to convince them and take away from the false image of the media . But lolz your comment really makes me laugh hahahaahhaahahahahahahahahahah­ahahhehe I cant stop laughing lolz ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;'­''

[yaaraful]

and the Western culture is self to be blamed for that and also Western women who wear those dresses that doesnt look like dresses and invite hungry dogs to fuck them thats the no one reason fact and root cause of rapes and that is why GOd has ordered Muslim women to wear hijab or niqab so that they can be respected as a women and dont look like a prostitute where every second men want to have sex with u and also to protect urself from being rapedand other men from turning on right away

[yaaraful]

well think of hijab and niqab as protection shield from men and from being raped and also to look like a real modest women and not like in the West where women wear those nasty dresses to seduce every 2 man and are thought as peaces of object and fuck achines that is why the no of rapes is very high in the West as the Muslim world bcs wht will u do if Fresh meat dances in front of u sometimes it is difficut to control ur the blood tht flow down from the brain to the penis and then it happens

[vilyaarda]

@yaaraful offcourse because there are no rapes in the muslim world. Wake up and be realistic. Just because you wear or not a scarf does not change anything. Just because in Muslim worl does not exist statistics of rape, abuses and sexual harassment it does not mean it does not exist.

So according to you a man things only with his lower parts of the body and avoid using his brain? If that's the case why they don't stay in the house or simply cover their eyes.

[dakodar]

@vilyaarda This is exactly what I've been wondering too. If the men cannot control themselves, and thus are the cause of rape and abuse, then why not lock THEM up instead of the other way around. Why not let them cover their eyes and protect society from the men. ;) Wouldn't it be weird if we would let the criminals run on the streets and non-criminals restrict access? It's a patriarchal thing imho

[GrotesqueBurlesque96]

@dakodar My dad always said that criminals in prison had a better life than those of us on the outside. They get free (to them) clothes, food, medical care, and housing. If you think about it, it is funny, and somewhat true. However, I should say that women are just as bad about having sexual thoughts as men are. We are all human, and that is human nature.

[Gr1m3T1me]

@vilyaarda - well maybe this will help you understand, and you seem like an intelligent person also very respecful which is actually quite relieving, honest and well-put imo. So here is my 2 cents- Muslim women who wear the full veil are not supposed to be forced it is their choice, but at least the normal veil should be mandatory because today men cannot control themselves and locking them up makes nothing better, look up criminal statistics, proven that things get worse.

[dbag808able]

No freedom for hijab and niqaab in the West, until all women are free to wear whatever they want in Mecca.

No human rights for muslims, until muslims grant human rights to Christians and jews in the heartland of their religion.

Freedom isn't a one-way street.

[StrainSop]

I am not muslim (yet) but I already own hijabs. I have worn a few of them to a local masjid last week and I did NOT get even a single cat call, honk or whistle! No one was rude to me, just asked me why I was wearing my hijabs. I told them why and they were cool with that. Some people didn't even pay attention to me when I got in and out of buses. Today I sat behind a muslimah in a bus and no one bothered her or refused to sit by her. I ran into another muslimah at the mall and the same!!

[zmyrd]

they have beautiful eyes

[duaforme]

AASALAMWALAKUM

I agree that it is better in hijab so that GAIRMARD cannot able to see us .

May ALLAH shows all of us right path.

I pray to ALLAH to escape us from the SHAIR of "SHAITAN'

AMEEN YA RABIL ALAMEN

[BassAngelMLS]

Everyone has such beautiful eyes

[REGIEBEL]

whatever atleast we followed what ALLAH wants and it is for us then... than wearing a seductive dress just too seduce men that would lead u to hell. when u wear hijab it means ur confident to urself and u dont have to seduce men just to admire u or rather be rude to u

[chester1080]

Example of Hate Speech --> SHOULD BE BANNED

O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk." Chapter (Surah) 5 [al-Ma'idah.......The Feast] Verse 51

[RiverBirch1967]

But isn't a woman wearing eye makeup not being modest? It is sexy, eye makeup.

[sowhatwww]

sure Brother it is

not all the photos in this clip r real

some of them made by models I hope u can see the diff

but real Muslims suppose not wearing makeup as it is kind of Zeenaah ( means decoration ) which ALLAH ordered in that Quraan that it should be covered

check the Quraan chapter 24 verse 31

[hanonah1115]

lol how about the chapterin new testiment that says woman should dressmodest and not wear adorments in house of god and not have head over man and so on..yet u ppl are like a mc donalds have ur book ur way right away.. put in it what u want and take out the stuff u dont like..

[Ronaldiinoo]

Oh and its NOT a bag

[Tara20052]

Those are really beautiful pictures and the music is very good with your video, I give five stars, thanks for sharing.

[TheAmazingTurd]

God never spoke a single word about women covering themselves in a bag. If you still do it you're following the rules of men, not the rules of God.

[Ronaldiinoo]

really ..... have you read the quran?

what about the many chapters regarding women?

[TheAmazingTurd]

I'm talking about God himself, God supposedly only spoke to a few prophets, the majority of the words in the holy books are what regular men thought it was right, but it's not necessarily right. And I know it's not a bag! but it sure has the same purpose.

[sowhatwww]

read Quraan well plz

check the Quraan chapter 24 verse 31

also check the Quraan chapter 33 verse 59

& no need to say how much the Sunnah of the Prophet was rich in this topic

[sowhatwww]

oops I didn't mean to write this here

how can I delete this

[sowhatwww]

read Quraan well plz

check the Quraan chapter 24 verse 31

also check the Quraan chapter 33 verse 59

& no need to say how much the Sunnah of the Prophet was rich in this topic

[loreleileigh]

girl, where did you get all these beautiful pictures! alhamdulillahhhhh!!

[JerseyGirl1001]

Alhamdu lillahi rabbil 'alamin

Bravo dear!

[PimpMyReich]

What a waste of a life.

[fsacoor]

yeah..would be better if they were like your mother or sister that walk around half naked, checking in every six months to court for a sexual abuse case against your father or friends that interacted with them...makes sense

[TheAmazingTurd]

We both know that your comment isn't based on reality but exaggeration.

Perhaps if women were to walk "half naked" in some middle eastern countries they sure would be abused and then stoned because it was their fault! (sarcasm)

[lipglossaddict13]

I really love this video!! it's great Alham!

[fearofallah18]

Alhamdulliah this video is so nice please make many more. For a hijabi like me this is inspiration for me and for those sisters who wish to veil.

[hfujrygu]

Islam teaches woman how to protect themselves and to hide their beauty to only the people that are allowed to see them they are not for the whole world they are for only specific persons

[PerytonS]

Why should they need protection? When you say they are only for specific persons you are implying that they are property that is owned. You assume they are too weak and stupid to make their own decisions or that men are too weak and stupids to not rape them. Both are living your life based on the worst in people rather than the best in people.

[MissBelgianBeauty]

don't be misled by beautiful pictures of muslim women wearing veils and mak-up at the same time. Islam is primitive and ugly, the veil is an insult to a woman's beauty.

[neocarvi]

why do you keep searching for muslim videos with such an attitude to muslimahs? you obviosuly got no practicing friends to talk to...

[Ahlam1981]

actually i am a beautifull woman in a beautifull veil and there is very little primitive or ugly about my life or my worship. The only insult i feel is when magazines show half naked women draped over cars or draped in jewelry or some other thing. i am insulted to see the beauty of the feminine physique exploited for capital gains. rather it makes sense to support women's right to veil because it also protects your right to be un clothed.

[PerytonS]

Why are you insulted by what Allah has created? That is an insult to Allah. That it is forced upon women is an insult to women. That it implies that man are beasts that can't control themselves if they see a womans hair is an insult to men.

[Ahlam1981]

Please reread what i said. i am insulted that such beauty would be debased and used to sell the meanest of items. I am insulted that my body is being used as a gimmick to advertise cars or energy supplements. I think women are worth more than that.

[PerytonS]

Then you can easily not make a career out of modeling or acting and you won't have to be insulted. But allow women who want to make their own decisions to be free to wear what they want. I don't care what you wear. I care if women are forced to wear a veil. I think women are smart enough to decide for themselves, you do not.

[Ahlam1981]

actually, i beleive that there must be duality. My point is that my right to wear hijab and feel elevated is the other side of the coin...the same right you enjoy to wear a bikini and drape across a car.

[PerytonS]

But in Islam there is no duality, the Quaran says I do not have that right. In Sharia law a woman can be beaten and even killed for not wearing it in public.

[Ahlam1981]

Again you lack nowledge. The Quran says "Tell the beleiving women...", meaning thehijab is a requirement for us. Why? "so that they may be known and not molested". So the supposition is this. A beleiving woman should wear hijab to distinguish herself from non-muslim women who are not held to such a high standard. More over there is no verse in Quran that prescribes beating or stoning for not wearing hijab. It does [rescribe imprisonment for public lewdity.

[PerytonS]

I will agree that I lack knowledge of this subject and thus why I am asking you these questions. Your answer then presumes that women who do not wear the hijab should be molested? What a woman says and does should be more important than what she wears. Regarding the punishment, then why is it said Sharia law is based on the Quaran?

[Ahlam1981]

The word shariah is often misused to mean any regime whose governence recognizes islam in its civil codes. But shariah in iran and saudi are two different things.... The actual meaningof shariah is any prohibition or duty upon the muslim as revealed in Quran AND sunnah. So, the first thing is that shariah only applies to muslims. The second is that in the time of the prophet jews and christians were left to their own courts.

[PerytonS]

So what it your opinion on how the laws should be handled in modern society? Should each religion have their own courts? What about atheists? Do you think that the verses in the Quaran are perfect and are valid today as they were 1400 years ago?

[Ahlam1981]

Actually, if ppl actually lived according to their faith i would have no problem with them establishing their own courts. In some of the ultra-orthodox jewish communities they have a system very much like this, handling disputes, marraiges and divorces internally. I do beleive in the word of the Quran as it was revealed for all times. And, the more i learn about the world the deeper my faith.

[PerytonS]

So do you believe that the Quaran was written by Allah and it is perfect? The way people lived in Mohamed's time was very different than today, should we go back to living that way?

[Ahlam1981]

There is nothing wholey good or bad about technology. But, like television, what we do with technology can be either good or bad. I beleive that the Quran is the speach of Allah and perfect. It does not leave us static but puts limits on what we do with things. It makes us ask the question of "should we do this" not just "can we do this".

[PerytonS]

Thank you again for your reasoned replies to my questions. Why do you think you need to believe that a mystical creature spoke these words? If the ideas and concepts are valid, they should stand on their own without the carrot (Heaven) and stick (hell) to make people believe in them?

[Ahlam1981]

Its not the need for a bedtime story that drives my beleif in God. I look at the world and i see a universe of order. Nature itself functions according to certain laws. My faith comes from the idea that no thing comes from nothing. I don't see randomness i see design. So if there were no heaven or hell i would still beleive that there must be a Creator.

[PerytonS]

When you look at this world you see order in what ways? The idea that nothing comes from nothing is interesting but to make the monumental leap that that means it all came from a magical creature who talked to 125,000 prophets and then suddenly stopped is weird to me. I do not see design, I see randomness. If this is design than the creator is terrible at it. 99.99% of all species have gone extinct, tsunamis randomly kill 25,000 people. Was that design?

[Ahlam1981]

The very laws of physics, the cycle of the trees and the seasons. Everything functions according to its own law, and left to itself will balance itslef out. Biologists, botanists, any scientist will tell you that this world has laws that keep it running, like gravity and the orbit of planets.

[PerytonS]

Yes, those are the natural laws, not supernatural like Allah. My question is, do you think Allah has any direct affect on your life? Meaning does he actively make your life better? If so, shouldn't there be a correlation of faith in Allah and prosperity, health, luck, etc?

[Ahlam1981]

Yes there is a direct corelation between my happiness and my faith, bt it is not in the things that you cite. Even in my sickness and my hard times i find a peace and a hope that is unmatched by anything i know. I know that his life is designed, that there is a God who is taking into account everything and won't let any suffering or any kindness go unnoticed. And the existence of natural laws to me points to order and design, not randomness.

[PerytonS]

Again Thank You for talking to me about these issues. I hope I don't sound to confrontational but these are questions I can't seem to get other Muslim's to answer. I agree that our minds have an innate need to find easy answers to hard questions like "why did this happen to me? Why did that innocent die" and believing in a master plan is the easy answer. When you say that God will take everything into account and won't let things go unnoticed, what do you mean? Is it all about the afterlife?

[Ahlam1981]

Allah says in the quran two very important things. One is that both difficulty and ease are tests. The second is that we are responsible for what we do and will be rewarded accordingly. Allah says for those whose only goal is things in this life He grants it. For those whose goal is for something greater He grants it.

[PerytonS]

So it seems he is completely irrelevant in this life. I hear many say if it is good it is in thanks to Allah. If it is bad  it is humans fault. This seems blatantly ridiculous. So was the tsunami as test for those 250,000 who died that they all failed?

[Ahlam1981]

I say it often, aknowledging that whatever truth or good deed i accomplish is because Allah has given me the abiliy and the guidance, but when i do bad deeds or turn away from truth it is my own failing, not becuz Allah stopped being available, but i erred.

[PerytonS]

But if you were not born Muslim do you think you couldn't make good decisions? If you were raised in an honest and ethical home without Islam do you think that you wouldn't know right from wrong?

[Ahlam1981]

Allah says that islam is our "fitrah" the natural state of the human being. Meaning that all the other stuff we learn on the way. Becuz its our natural state it is very possible for ppl to do the right thing. But right action without right beleif only lasts for this life.

[PerytonS]

Why do you think God would make this life as a test? What purpose does it serve? Trillions lived before Mohamed and trillions have lived after him that never heard of him. Why would an all powerful and omnipotent God do all of this to test a small percentage of the people this way?

[Ahlam1981]

Your assumption is faulty, this is not about the rasul (pbuh), this is about allah. Rasulillah is not a Jesus figure for us, he is simply a messenger. So each and every ppl have been sent a messenger, with the revelation for those ppl in their own language. Islam''s claim is not that Rasulillah is unique amongst messengers in his message.

[Ahlam1981]

we eventually have to decide who we will serve and what we will worship. Be it science, religion, God, sex, money, pleasure, power...we all worship something and in the end we all submit to the grave. God allowed the human being the gift of free will. So He ultimately asks.....will you spend your life chasing your own desires and ideal, which will be as finite and flawed as you are, or will you chase something higher. Make sense?

[Ahlam1981]

Why is death failure?I have heard some say that it was a warning shot fired by God to remind the muslims of their Lord. Personally i don't buy that. I think it was the result of us messing with Allah's plan for nature, global warming and a disappearing coral reef killed those ppl. We did it ourselves, becuz we were too busy diobeying Allah for worldly gain.

[PerytonS]

The tsunami was caused by a huge fault slip that caused an enormous tidal wave. It had nothing to do with global warming or coral reefs disappearing. If death is a warning shot it is a fatal one to the head. It all just seems like rationalization with no logic behind it.

[Ahlam1981]

from what i understand (again science ot my feild) much of the devastation could have been avoided had the natural barriers been in place, bt they have been mined in order to make resorts for turists, also, something about heating of the oceans only increased the intensity. Yes, tidal waves are natural occurences, but we make it worse on ourselves by mismanaging our planet.

[PerytonS]

Sorry but I am a scientist and that is all just false. The tsunami was caused by an underground fault shift and the reefs that were removed had no effect and may have made it worse. I have researched it carefully. Now why Allah did it is the big question. Most of those killed were Muslims.

[Ahlam1981]

I admit science is not my thing, but if i am assimilating the info i am reading correctly, the loss of the reefs may have made things worse.... I don't know why Allah allows everything. I know ppl have made speculations and i think thats a mistake so i won't go there beyond to say much of what we do we do to ourselves. But the fact that nature can be destructive has already been dealt with.

[Ahlam1981]

The issue most muslim have with aetheists are two fold. One is that he Quran teaches us that the end game of the non-beleiver is to pull us off track. We are taught that you may say you are doing good but the end result is wrong. The second is that most aetheists lack respect for religious ppl and their beleifs, most especially with muslims becuz we tend to be very visibly religious.

[PerytonS]

Of course the Quaran will say that so you don't actually think about the questions you are asked. Again, faith is not asking questions you don't want to know the answer to. I only want to find the answers to life. The only way I know is to learn and question those who say they know. I mean no disrespect,I only ask to learn. I have to run an dplay with my daughters so have a great day and I hope we can continue to talk!

[Ahlam1981]

Well we can either say the answer to life is to breed and die, or there is more to us, which brings in the issue of the soul and whether or not there is a purpose to our creation. I do not beleive the human being is the result of some great cosmic accident, but the result of an intelligent design.

[PerytonS]

Propagation of the species is what drives every other being on the planet and I think it funny to think we are any different. We are not an accident but the evolutionary result of millions of years of adaptation. We share 99% of the same DNA as a chimpanzee and apes have learned to converse in sign language to an amazing level.

[Ahlam1981]

If the point of your existence is to breed then why bother to ask deeper questions? You have your answer, the purposeof your being is to breed. I simply disagree.

[PerytonS]

I believe religion is an evolutionary adaptation early humans needed to deal with death and the unknown. Once our emotions developed emotional love we needed a way to go on after the loss of a loved one. Thus the idea of the afterlife and a god with a plan evolved and is still with us today in our primitive brain.

[Ahlam1981]

Human beings, according to islam, were the only part of creation who took on the ability to contravene its design. We are the only ones who can decide to pollute, destroy and kill for no reason at all. So, many of our problems (global warming, endangered species) are our own fault. Nature is doing as it was designed to do...we are not.

[PerytonS]

Many animals kill for the same reasons we do. Territory, dominance, jealousy, anger, etc. Cats, dogs, ferrets will kill for sport and not eat the victim. Monkeys and apes will kill for no determinable reason as well. We are just another animal. Those 99.99% of extinct creatures happened before man had a chance to effect them, nature did that.

[Ahlam1981]

The idea that species die does not show lack of design or care. Often one thing must die in order to bring about another. i admit i am not a scientist by training, but just as empires rise and fall, like ppl live and die i can see order even in the extinction of a pre-human species.

[PerytonS]

My point is that it is all natural and does not need a magical creator. We are a species of animal and nothing more. If Allah created this world just for humans, why did he make create it for at least 400 million years before the first human?

[Ahlam1981]

For me the ultimate question is if there are natural laws, then who designed them? Rabia al Adawiyah, was a famous muslim philosopher who once said "I want to set fire to heaven and put out the fire of hell so that no man may worship Allah out of fear of one or hope of the other." I beleive in God because to me it makes sense, heaven adn hell are a different issue all together.

[PerytonS]

But how can they be different? Many Muslims I talk to say that this life is hell and we just don't know it. That everything is about the afterlife and this is just a test.

[Ahlam1981]

Beleif in God is one thing..to say that i understand that there must be a creator is only one step. The beleif in heavena nd hell and how to attain either is another science all together. The muslim is taught that this life is a test, both the good and the bad in it. the question is what will you choose, that which benefits you only in this life or that which benefits all of humanity in this life and you in the next.

[PerytonS]

Ahlam, OK that makes sense. Are you concerned that when you live this life as if it was a test that you are not living it honestly? It seems that religion is there to scare you into being good because otherwise you would be evil?

[Ahlam1981]

that is like saying you are only there to scare your children into being good. I don't think of islam as a religioin in the conventional sense. We call it a deen becuz for us its a way of being, not a set of rules and rituals (although as in any society that is part of the equation). Rather it is here to teach and to guide, and yes even at times that means punishment.But like children we choose that end for ourselves.

[PerytonS]

My job as a parent is to teach my children the importance of being good and how to make good decisions. To set them on the right path and give them the skills to do the right thing. I don't need a religion to teach them that. Too many people take religion and use it as a tool to dominate and make others submit to their will.

[Ahlam1981]

I personally think this is a cop out.....ppl do the same thing with politics but we don't opt out of the political process. The human institutions we build in the name of religion are flawed, yes, but i don't beleive the answer is to opt out but to engage and push for a closer rendering of the ideal.

[PerytonS]

But I will opt of of a political party if I find out they are lying to me. If I find out that the entire platform is fake and I was being manipulated into believing lies. I think the ideal will be when we stop relying on and/or blaming mythical creatures and take responsibility for our lives.

[Ahlam1981]

I think you misunderstand ppl of faith. For the most part we take responsibility for our actions and reaslize that we have a responsibility to each other and to a greater good. Opting out of a party is not the same as opting out of the political process as a whole. We keep trying and keep engaging becuz for the most part we have no other choice. Ppl of faith feel the same way.

[PerytonS]

I see what you are saying but when I hear people sat that things are "god's will" or part of "god's plan", I feel they are abdicating their responsibility and ability. If god is all powerful and time is immaterial to him as many say then he controls everything that has happened, is happening and will happen. Ifthat is true, why bother living?

[Ahlam1981]

When our children are small we control their entire universe, and in a way they worship us for it. They can and do act on thier own (permanant marker on the wall anybody?) but we always have the ability to intervene and redirect, to prevent them from great calamities even when they are pushing toward it and to permit them to hurt themselves though we know what the outcome will be.

[Ahlam1981]

We can see far beyong theor scope and plan for a future they cannot conceive of. Often what we say and do make no sense to them becuz as children they CANNOT understand yet. We may appear mean to them, giving them rules and regulations that they are obligated to follow under threat of punishment until they can understand.

[Ahlam1981]

And when they have reached a level of understanding they often credit us with their successes and realize how much our plan for them and will to see them succeed has benefited them. I don't see this as much different than most beleivers and God. you do have your odd balls, but for the vast majority of us the comparison is strikingly similar. I hope i make sense.

[PerytonS]

It does make sense. It just seems to me that religion is for people who need a universal parent to make them feel safe and secure. My parents did a good enough job in teaching me and I guess I don't need a surrogate parent to be a good person.

[Ahlam1981]

I tink the point of my analogyy is that God or religion as you see it, plays the same role. It teaches and guides and gives us the tools to face ugly and difficult moments with the best in us. Yes, we are rewarded or punished in the end, but look at it this way...at some point we have to let our kids go and despite our best efforts they may not always choose the benefits of our wisdom and guidance. They choose, as it were, hell instead of heaven.

[PerytonS]

I guess I would rather people base their decisions on rational concepts and that they realize that this is the only life we have and we have to do as much good as we can to help the species move forward. Religion splits everyone into groups that pull in the direction of their heaven.

[Ahlam1981]

I understand but disagree, i think religion has in many cases brought out the best in ppoll and helped them to contribute greatly to the world. But you are right it can also be divisive.

[PerytonS]

As you say, religion can be a fantastic and beneficial force when the motives are peace and knowledge.

[PerytonS]

I don't know how the natural laws came into being or if there are different rules in every dimension of time/space. I want to find out and my problem with all religion is it says it has the answer and we should stop asking questions. The definition of faith is to just believe and don't question.

[Ahlam1981]

No the definition of faith is to be certain of a thing that cannot be proven conclusively. It can be argued and reasoned, but at some point you have to decide that if you have faith then you just might be better off, and then take the plunge. Allah says his religion is for those who think, learn, observe, would be guided (depending on the verse). So questions are okay as long as you understand that at some point we as humans will have to say "i don't know"....and be okay with that!

[PerytonS]

I guess that is my problem, I am never OK with I don't know. I do not believe that there is anything we can't understand. I understand Islam means submission and as a free man I can never submit. Submission is giving up and I will strive to understand the universe until my dying breath.

[Ahlam1981]

We all submit to something..whether its the rule of law, our own vain desires, the inevitable march of time, we all submit. What islam means is submitting the lowest part of myself to the will of God. The idea that those ugly and base parts of the human should be sublimated in pursuit of an ideal dictated by God does not make me a slave or an idiot.....at worst it makes me an idealist.

[Ahlam1981]

Admitting you don't know or won't know is not weakness, its the beginning of wisdom. Allah doesn't say stop seeking, He says seek in the right places, becuz what is here, measurable and comprehendable by us is fleeting and not all there is. what we think we know changes and that breeds humility. God, says the pursuit of knowledge is for all your life but we can't master it all.

[PerytonS]

I know I only know a sliver of what I can and I hope to understand as much as I can before I die so I can benefit those who will live after me. I do like the way you think and you  are a credit to your religion.

[Ahlam1981]

ummm...thanx?

[PerytonS]

Ahlam, I do mean that as a sincere compliment. You are articulate and reasoned in you thinking. You listen to what I say and respond with candor and clarity. I seem to find too few people who are willing and able to discuss these issues, from any religious or non-religious perspective, to any depth. So thanks again!

[Ahlam1981]

How long b4 the arrival of your first child did you begin to prepare for its arrival? If we do this much for our children why would God do any less?

[PerytonS]

I began preparing when we found out my wife was pregnant. But since God created the universe in 6 days, why did he need to wait 400 million years for the first human. It just doesn't make sense.

[Ahlam1981]

we say that the 6 days were not days as we know them now....rather a better translation is 6 stages. The word reers to 6 stages of time...not 24 hour periods....how long? Dunno!! This is a point where i am ignorant...science was not my thing!

[PerytonS]

I understand. I have studied many religions and different texts and Islam is my latest interest. All religions are remarkably similar on almost every way but they all think they are different and right. The answer I am trying to figure out now is how can very intelligent people who use logic and reason in all parts of their lives simply ignore it when it comes to God? They don't believe in Ghosts, fairies, alien abduction, etc. but here they have "faith".

[Ahlam1981]

Actually i wold say that, at leaste int he caseof islam, we don't say we are incredibly different. we fully aknowledge that we are part of a larger abrahamic tradition and that every ppl have had revelation. What you find so baffling is simply us coming to a different conclusion after looking at the evidence.

[PerytonS]

Very true. So why do you suppose Allah suddenly stopped sending Prophets after Mohamed? He sent 125,000 before him and then suddenly stopped. The Quaran says that it was because the end was near and judgment day was going to happen in his lifetime. So at what point do you stop waiting for doomsday?

[Ahlam1981]

The Quran makes no such claim, but at the time of the prophet when he would talk about the last day they say his conviction was so strong that ppl often thought it was going to be soon. IN fact, so did the followers of jesus and every other prphet to my knowledge. As for prophethood, that is a little more complicated and requires some linguistics to explain.

[PerytonS]

I am just repeating what I have been told by other Muslims and I may be wrong in my interpretation of what they said. My point is that almost all religions have been scaring everyone into following their dogma based on the fear that the end is near and they better repent before it happens.

[Ahlam1981]

I agree, i just don't think its wrong. Even if the world doesn't end, we all die and that is the end for us. So, make trhe best of your time right?

[Ahlam1981]

In nature even destruction serves a purpose. Look at the flooding of the nile? The remaining silt was some of the most fertile ground int he world. So, what we consider disasters are only seen that way because it disrupts our design, not because they serve no biological or geological purpose. Yes, ppl die, of disease and disaster and accident. God never said that there would be no suffering, but most of what we suffer from we do to ourselves

[Ahlam1981]

A woman's honor is priceless. i agree that women should be judged for their mindsnot their bodies. For this reason allah has directed the muslim men to lower his gaze, forbidden him to touch the non-mahram woman (outside of necessity), and forbidden him to be alone in a room with any non-mahram woman. (mahram refers to a list of relations he cannot marry)

I think we talk so much about the woman's dress that we forget that the man also has a responsibility in this as well.

[PerytonS]

That is actually my point. When you say Allah directs men to lower his gaze and forbid him to touch non-mahram woman and forbids him to be alone with any non-mahram woman, etc. it seems to be assuming the worst in everybody. It assumes men are animals that can't ever be trusted, it assumes that non-mahram women are either valueless or evil. I would think the creator of man would have more faith in man and woman.

[Ahlam1981]

I disagree, it simply closes all possible doors and places modesty as the highest characteristic. Now you can argue that you don't feel modesty is a valuable trait of a civilized human being, but we do. we feel its the debased animal who paws at any and all flesh. And the non-mahram is not valueless, but she isn't a thing to be handled by anybody and everybody. It basically says hands off.

[PerytonS]

As the father of two daughters I understand the value of modesty and teach them that without the need of threats of rape, beatings, hell and damnation. It seems you do not think that it is "the debased animal who paws at any and all flesh" but every man. You have no faith in men or women to do the right thing without threats it seems.

[PerytonS]

In my opinion, it is the followers of Islam, Judaism, and Christianity who think that we are all animals who need to be threatened and punished.

[aliet07]

well u do not like them

dont look at them

no 1 is forcing u !! :))

and no

im wearing 1

its not an insult

at least i dont feel like a prostitute

:)))

[tkwtkwtkw]

"Firefighters told the Saudi press that morality police forced girls to stay inside the burning building because they were not wearing the head scarves and black cloaks known as abayas that women must wear in public in that kingdom. One Saudi paper said the morality police stopped men who tried to help the girls escape the building, saying, "It is sinful to approach them."

Fifteen schoolgirls are burned to death Friday, 15 March, 2002

[neocarvi]

well Suadi police are not an authority in Islam, ISLAM says in this situation you can be uncovered to protect life

[tkwtkwtkw]

Tell that to the parents of the little girls who died in the fire.

[Heoha]

I am a muslim and I totally agree with you Suadis do not use their minds. In Islam you can uncover you head if you in danger and it is ok if people see you. The Suadies need some brains.

[hanonah1115]

u r right.. saudis are like mind of animal.. i m muslim hijabi.. and so many timesi had chance to live in saduia and i refused.. woman are cattle to those ppl.. long live the real islam..

[sowhatwww]

haven't u ever read the Quraan chapter 49 verse 12

nor let some of you backbite others. Does one of you like to eat the flesh of his dead brother?

the Prophet said

"The best of mankind are my generation (or my century), then those who come after them, then those who come after them.Then there will come a people who will not care if their testimony...(Reported by al-Bukhaari, Muslim and al-Tirmidhi).

so who do u think we have to believe ur opinion the Prophet may the peace be upon Him ..???

[hanonah1115]

first of aLL ur opinion does not matter to me.. tell me do u know what the prophet saws would think.. u pass judgement lol justas everyone else.. and the simple fact is saudis do and act not by islamic laws.. but by their cultural ways.. trying bethere.. dotn talk unless u know..

[aliet07]

they r not animals

remember that thats the land of prophet Mohammad

and they are from the originals that lived there!!we love that land..the people are Bedouins, Bedouins in all the world are known to be tougher than others and more strict...

notice..as far u get from the Bedouins..as less conservative societies u see

so they might think negatively sometimes

but they r not animals :)

[aliet07]

lets not start

ok

Crusades? ringing bells?

so there is a weird group in every religion!