Rick Mercer Report: Rick's Rant (March 29th, 2011)

[MtlRedAtheist]

Yesterday's debate was sad. Unfortunately, looks like we're headed toward another minority conservative government.

[RottenIsAGunner]

I won't be voting. I haven't voted before, and I doubt I will. I don't agree with any of the parties at all. I'm fiscally conservative and morally liberal. I'm between both parties, and none of the others are even.. sane choices.

Being that I cannot vote for someone whom I disagree with morally, I cannot vote conservative and being that I cannot vote for someone whom I do not agree with on everything else, I cannot vote liberal... so I don't bother, as there is nobody to represent my view.

[PluralOfEverything]

@RottenIsAGunner I respect and agree with your decision, but how do you feel about being forced to comply with laws drawn up by people who don't represent you? Do you think it's right? I mean, unless a known child molester or neo nazi runs, a whole lot of people will be represented by someone they didn't vote for. Sure it's democracy, but is it justice for the majority to rule over the minority?

[RottenIsAGunner]

@PluralOfEverything

I don't think it is 'right' that a group of people I don't agree with get to make up the rules, but such is democracy. They are the rightfully elected government and I must comply with their ruling. Is it necessarily fair? No. It is necessarily correct? No. But such is democracy. And even if I did vote, I would be sacrificing one view for another. Is it right or fair that I should be asked to 'give up' a major view just so I can say I voted? I don't think so.

[PluralOfEverything]

@RottenIsAGunner I'm glad I'm not the kind of person who doesn't do or say anything while an unjust system persists.

[RottenIsAGunner]

@PluralOfEverything I say plenty, but what exactly do you suggest I 'do'? And I don't necessarily consider an elected government 'unjust'. I simply do not agree with them, but the same could be said of any elected government of the current candidates, because none represent my views. Hence why I do no vote.

[PluralOfEverything]

@RottenIsAGunner I don't know what you should do. I just wish it mattered more to people that they are slaves. There are many ways to rebel, but they often require a sacrifice that people aren't willing to make. I can't tell you that you should give up your possessions to a government that would surely take them away if you refuse to pay protection money. I want making money to no longer be the 'bottom line' for anybody.

[PluralOfEverything]

To vote is to give your consent to be governed by a system you never had any choice in, a system based on violence and theft. Revoke your consent.

[reanimeviewed]

@PluralOfEverything Hurray! The anarchists have started to arrive. You have a choice, the choice to leave. Want anarchy, there's always Somalia. Seriously though, if you don't want to be part of a government then find some people that think like you and build yourself an island in international waters.

[PluralOfEverything]

@reanimeviewed Wow, that was so original and unexpected. "If you don't like it, leave." How about instead of telling me to go away, you argue against what I said? Tell me the system isn't based on violence. Tell me we're not slaves. Tell me something intelligent instead of the idiotic thing you just said.

[reanimeviewed]

@PluralOfEverything We are not slaves, to say that we are is to trivialize everything that people who were actually enslaved went through. You assert that the system is based on violence, yet to fail to back that statement up with any evidence. You also fail to mention what system you're even talking about. Would you care to give an example of anarchist society that has worked? I wasn't telling you to leave, I was telling you to leave, it was more of a, 'put up or shut up', type of statement.

[PluralOfEverything]

@reanimeviewed That's more like it. Violence is how the law is enforced. If you don't pay your taxes, police will eventually come to take you to jail. If you resist, they will hurt you. There are many victimless crimes like that that end up with the government using violence to kidnap you and lock you in a cage.

There are lots of anarchist societies that work. Bushmen in Africa have maintained a stateless society for thousands of years, and so do penguins and other animals.

[boonw]

@PluralOfEverything

"Violence is how the law is enforced"

Unless the cop is an asshole, they wont use violence. They mostly use violence to counteract violence. Dont act violently to them, and they shouldnt use violence on you.

"If you don't pay your taxes, police will eventually come to take you to jail"

No shit sherlock, you are using all the property goods and services those taxes pay for. If you are not paying for those services you are essentially stealing.

[PluralOfEverything]

@boonw Violence is part of a cop's job. If you resist being taken to jail, even the nicest cop in the universe will use violence to force you to go. It doesn't matter if I use the things the government put in place without consulting me. I never agreed to pay, so I shouldn't be forced to.

[boonw]

@PluralOfEverything

"If you resist being taken to jail, even the nicest cop in the universe will use violence to force you to go"

Well no shit sherlock. If they cant arrest people how do you expect them to stop robberies and shit?

"I never agreed to pay, so I shouldn't be forced to."

Ok then. Why did you walk on the sidewalk. They paid for it, you are using it without their permission. Why are you using their electric grid?

You used VOLUNTARILY, you have to pay your share. Suck it up.

[PluralOfEverything]

@boonw When "and shit" includes not paying protection money to the government, the system is corrupt. Cops don't stop robberies. They respond to them after they have already occurred.

I use the sidewalk because I can't fly and because it's there. Walking on it doesn't signify an agreement on my part to pay for it. The same goes for electricity. They were stupid enough to put it all in before they thought to get me to sign an agreement, so it's their loss, not mine.

[boonw]

@PluralOfEverything

"When "and shit" includes not paying protection money to the government"

Again, you use all the things they build and pay with tax dollars, you are essentially paying rent, you are NOT paying protection money. Living in an area with infastructure that is communally paid for and maintained requires EVERYONE to chip in. If you dont like it, go live in the bush, or move to a country with no taxes (somalia is a good example)

[PluralOfEverything]

@boonw When you pay rent to live somewhere, you sign a lease agreement. I signed no such agreement here. I was born here, and the government claimed ownership of me. I decide what my rights are, and chief among them is my right to only pay for what I've agreed to pay for. No taxation without representation.

Stop with the stupid redneck "if you don't like it, you can live somewhere else" argument. It just shows that you're running out of material.

[boonw]

@PluralOfEverything

"I signed no such agreement here. I was born here"

Yet you didnt hesitate to use the governments property without consulting them first?

"I was born here, and the government claimed ownership of me"

Or,they put together infastructure and services that you use on a daily basis and are just sending you the bill.

I doubt you really beleive the shit you are spewing,if I thought the government were trying to"own"me,i sure as hell wouldnt be on the internet complaining about it

[PluralOfEverything]

@boonw So you didn't argue with my first point. That's good. It shows you have some brains. So if I'm not REALLY a citizen, why is it my responsibility to pay for what the government says I should pay for? Because they have the guns? If that's your point, then you are confirming that we don't have freedom at all because we can only do what the government won't kill us for doing.

[boonw]

@PluralOfEverything

"I decide what my rights are"

Correction, the government does because they are the authorative power. Without an authorative power rights cant exist as they are not upheld. You can declare that you have rights, but unless you have someone to defend them, nobody will recognize it.

"No taxation without representation."

You use roads, water, and electricity. Those are paid mostly through taxes. Yes, some is lost, but its far less than most other countries.

[PluralOfEverything]

@boonw They aren't paid if I don't pay for them. They can bill me if they want, but I can use that same logic, claim I own the air, and bill them for breathing it. They don't own the land, and they don't own me, but they think they own both because they expect me to pay them for it.

[boonw]

@PluralOfEverything

"Stop with the stupid redneck "if you don't like it, you can live somewhere else" argument."

Its a valid point.There are pros and cons to living anywhere. If you dont like that if you want to live here, you will need to pay a portion of your earnings to pay for what keeps society running, than go somewhere else. If you use, you need to pay your share,its that fucking simple.

"It just shows that you're running out of material"

Dismissal and ad hominem in one senctence lol

[boonw]

@PluralOfEverything

"I use the sidewalk because I can't fly and because it's there"

Correction, you use the sidewalk because its easier and quicker to walk on than it is to wade through the bush.

Unless you are in an area built mostly with taxes.

"Cops don't stop robberies"

Then explain to me why cops will have standoffs outside of banks.

Seriously, most cops care about their jobs. Just because a there are a few abusive pricks, doesnt mean that most of them are that way.

[PluralOfEverything]

@boonw Correction, I will answer questions my way. If you don't like the answers, you don't get to change it to what you want it to be. That's called a strawman fallacy.

[boonw]

@PluralOfEverything

"Walking on it doesn't signify an agreement on my part to pay for it"

Everyone else who wanted to use it had to pay there share. Why do you think you deserve a free ticket? Your argument is essentially as stupid as me saying that I am allowed to go into your house and use everything because "using it doesnt signify an agreement that you have to pay for it". Quit trying to reap all of the benefits of society without doing any of the work.

[PluralOfEverything]

@boonw Three words: taxation without representation.

[boonw]

@PluralOfEverything

"Three words: taxation without representation."

Wow, imagine that, a world where a system can work with 100% efficiency. Shit man, keep dreaming, you think to much of humans. If you can find out how to make sure every dollar is distributed representively, than you should run for office. You would get elected for sure.

[boonw]

@PluralOfEverything

"They were stupid enough to put it all in before they thought to get me to sign an agreement, so it's their loss, not mine."

Ok then, if you dont want to pay your share for electricity start using it.

Electricity is a privilege, not a right. Maintaining this requires all users to pay their part.

You live in a country that was made rich only due to the existence of taxes. Why are you bitching that they are a bad thing? Without them you would be living in a shack.

[PluralOfEverything]

@boonw Electricity isn't produced by the state, not in my state anyway. It's been privatized. Taxes don't go to pay for it, and I don't think they ever did.

Yeah sure, the united states has become wealthy due to theft. That doesn't mean it's right or good. The government doesn't give me a place to live, and those who it does that for actually do live in shacks. The government will even take your house away if you don't pay property taxes even if the house is totally paid for.

[boonw]

@PluralOfEverything

"Taxes don't go to pay for it, and I don't think they ever did"

Who do you think sets up the majority of the power grid? Hell, even the electric companies have to rely on government infastructure to exist

"the united states has become wealthy due to theft"

Or it became wealthy because some people dont bitch that they need to work hard to be sucessful

Literally,the state gave you everything you needed in order to be sucessful, you have only yourself to blame if you arent

[boonw]

@PluralOfEverything

"If you don't pay your taxes, police will eventually come to take you to jail"

There is a reason for that in democratic countries. The problem is, in democratic countries, the laws tend to follow the public opinion, regardless of how retarded it is. Those laws are in place because people want them to, its what gets the politicians elected. If you want those laws to go away, you need to convince people to make it something that would influence their vote.

[PluralOfEverything]

@boonw If your opinion represents public opinion, then I agree. It is quite retarded. Not everyone wants the laws in place. Evidence of this can be seen in the percentage of people who vote. If 51% of 20% of the population of a district votes for a particular candidate, that candidate was elected by 10.2% of the people. It can be assumed that the rest of them don't want to be a part of it. They comply only to avoid punishment. That's not democracy.

[PluralOfEverything]

@reanimeviewed There are many different kinds of slavery. It's basically forcing someone to work and controlling their lives.  The government does this through taxation. We are forced under threat of violence to pay taxes in the form of government created currency. That means the only compensation that will provide us with that currency is that same currency, which is created and controlled by the government and the corporations it supports. If you don't work for united states currency...

[PluralOfEverything]

...you will be homeless. You won't be able to get medical treatment, you'll be dependent on handouts for food and shelter, and everyone will regard you as lazy.  To work at all is to work for government created currency, which has no actual value.

[boonw]

@PluralOfEverything

"The government does this through taxation"

Seriously, you think you are intelligent but you arent. If you want to use roads, medicine, electricity, clean water, regulated industy, or live in an area where people try to stop assholes from mugging and violating you, you have to pay your part. Those are not free, you shouldnt expect them to be. If you hate government, go to somalia, where there is no government. See how you like it there.

Or move out into the bush.

[PluralOfEverything]

@boonw Seriously, you can't anger me by telling me I'm not intelligent. Try something else.

Speaking of not intelligent, I see you also tried the "if you don't like it, leave" defense. Try something better.

I never asked them to build roads or any of that other stuff, and I'd be fine without them. They can't charge me for something I didn't ask them to do. That's why in all other areas of business, we have contracts. If the cable company can't force you to pay for cable, the government...

[PluralOfEverything]

can't force you to pay for roads or any of the other things it provides.

[boonw]

@PluralOfEverything

"which is created and controlled by the government and the corporations it supports"

Okay, dont use currency then. Use the barter system, where it will take all day to get something at high cost. People like money because its a clear measurement of value, and guarantees a certain amount of goods/services.

Hell, be thankful to companies, they are the only reason you have anything nice in the world, business funds progress.

[PluralOfEverything]

@boonw Not all currency is bad. I only named one particular kind, but you didn't listen. You're too preoccupied with your own emotional attachment to the current system. It's going to collapse. Do you think the government does shutdowns when things are going well or even only kinda bad? You obviously have no understanding at all of what's going on, and you probably want it to stay that way.

[boonw]

@PluralOfEverything

"Not all currency is bad. I only named one particular kind, but you didn't listen"

I read what you said. American currency. Just because currency comes from america, doesnt mean its somehow now bad. Hell, change the country to canada and say canadian currency and ally our arguments again are equally valid (ie: not very).

"You're too preoccupied with your own emotional attachment to the current system"

Uh, no. I understand how the system works, and why we arent starving.

[PluralOfEverything]

@boonw No, I didn't say american currency. I said any currency that is inherently worthless. The united states isn't the only country that uses currency like that.

Uh, yes. You understand only what you want to understand.

[boonw]

@PluralOfEverything

"It's going to collapse"

No, its going to change, just like it has for about.... all of history.

"You obviously have no understanding at all of what's going on, and you probably want it to stay that way."

This is the thing, you never addressed any of my arguments. All you did is insult me, and then claim I was wrong because of a really silly nitpick. This is typically a sign of a weak argument, as it is used in substitution without addressing claims.

[PluralOfEverything]

@boonw It will have to change after it collapses.

I've responded to every single point you've made. Now you're pretending I didn't.  I should have expected that tactic. I'm not dealing with a rational individual.

[jay666KJ]

VOTE OR DIE MOTHER FUCKER!

[freethinker3161]

what show is that from, he is pretty cool.

[leyloca412]

@freethinker3161 The Rick Mercer Report. It's similar to The Daily show and The Colbert Report

[thegyger]

I love that he says "take 20 minutes out of your day" when it usually takes an hour waiting in like at universities : /

[gilraen789]

Just favourited this. Thanks for uploading it. Young people and the poor tend not to vote- and Rick is right-that's why they get screwed over by the political system.

[saxmanchiro]

Since leaving Canada in 01, I miss Rick. Love his style and love his great American street interviews. Good luck with the HST. I just found out aboot it from my visiting pissed off cousin from Niagara Falls. You folks have to rise up in the streets and say 'NO MORE'. Throw the bums out.(but then, new bums just replace them) Sad.

[tattooskin72]

so much love for Quebec LOL. I won't even say where some of my heritage is then...

[BornInAsphodelMeadow]

Nice. I was going to vote anyway, but if not I would surely be motivated by that.

[ubergossen]

@BornInAsphodelMeadow samesies

[boonw]

I voted last election. I hated everyone on the list. This year its pretty much the same : )

[ubergossen]

@boonw hehe there's a rick mercer rant for that too!

the lesser of two evils one. i remember watching it on tv before either the last election or the one before