Quick Answers to Calvinists Romans 9:11-13 - Jacques More

[m1tchish]

Nice tap dance..

You were saved by Grace through faith

and that not of yourselves..

You are wiggling around trying not

to accept the truth of GOD..

[gracetruthguy]

Hi m1tchish,

You appear to be quoting Ephesians 2:8-9

May I recommend you see my video on that passage and you will find that from the Greek the faith is shown as an action on our part and only the salavtion is the gift.

[Haukman66]

@gracetruthguy Yeah, nice try pal. Nowhere, will you read, that "in the greek, the faith is shown as an action on 'our' part". Besides, of course the faith is something "We" excercise. The point is, that not all have faith(2 Thes. 3:2). Only those who the Lord wills. (2Pet. 1:1, James 2:5, John 6:44, 1Cor. 12:3)

[gracetruthguy]

Hi Haukman66,

The full title of the video in response is:

"Quick Answers to Calvinists Ephesians 2:8-9 - Jacques More"

2 thess - Of course not all have faith since it is a choice: all who do not want to believe do not..

2 Peter - makes no mention how they obtained faith.

Jas2:5 just identifies the poor of this world as those who are rich in faith.

For John 6 See my vid:

"not so Quick Answer to Calvinists John 15:16 (& John 6) - Jacques More"

1 Cor.12:3 makes not mention of faith.

[Haukman66]

@gracetruthguy Where does it say, Faith is a 'choice'? 2Peter, but it does say it was given to them. Who do you think gave it to them? Santa Claus? And James 2:5 says, Did not God "choose"(keyword) the poor of this world. And this is not speaking of Poor people, monetarily, it is speaking of those who are poor in Spirit. 1Cor. 12:3 explicitly tells us, NOONE can say Jesus is Lord, except by the Holy Spirit. Again, nice try. You really shouldnt be teaching. Your theology is dreadful.

[gracetruthguy]

Hi Haukman66,

Did you even watch and check out the Greek as per my video on Ephesians 2:8-9?

It is explicit only the salvaiton is the gift.

Faith remains as an action on our part.

U say

" this is not speaking of Poor people, monetarily"

The context:

"there should also come in a poor man in filthy clothes" James 2:2

1 Cor12:3 is about the fruit of what is inside; no more.

[Haukman66]

@gracetruthguy Hey, just because you make a video, doesnt make it fact. You are twisting it. Salvation, and faith are all a gift. As John 6:65 tells us, FOR THIS REASON I HAVE SAID TO YOU, THAT NO ON CAN COME TO ME "UNLESS IT HAS BEEN GRANTED FROM THE FATHER".

1Cor. 12:3 is about the fruit that is inside? Are you kidding me? You get worse as you go along. The text says, NO ONE can say 'Jesus is Lord', except by the Holy Spirit!!! Give me one verse that says, we are saved by our freewill.

[gracetruthguy]

Hi Haukman66,

For John 6:65 I recommend the context as per what Jesus said in John 6:45 see my video entitled:

"not so Quick Answer to Calvinists John 15:16 (& John 6) - Jacques More"

"we have access by faith into this grace" Romans 5:2

It is eplicit by the Greek faith is an action and not a gift, see my video entitled:

"Quick Answers to Calvinists Ephesians 2:8-9 - Jacques More"

[Haukman66]

@gracetruthguy Given what Jesus said in 6:45, it is clear. Jesus said, they all(the same group He is speaking of, meaning those who are drawn in verse 44, i.e. the elect) they shall be taught of God. And He expounds on that by saying, "everyone who HAS HEARD and lLEARNED from the Father comes to Him. Not all hear the inward call. That is why Jesus said in John 8 that the Pharisees couldnt "hear" His word, they were of the devil. See John 10:27- Those who are His sheep, "Hear" His words!

[gracetruthguy]

Hi Haukman66,

Jesus said this in John 6:45

“It is written in the prophets,

‘And they shall ALL be taught by God’ “

AND HIS ONGOING EXPLANATION IS:

“Therefore EVERYONE who has heard AND learned form the Father comes to Me.”

All get to hear John said in John1:9 “gives light to EVERY MAN who comes into the world”

You become child of God (1:12) or you become a child of the devil (8:44).

[Haukman66]

@gracetruthguy LOL!! You jump from verse to verse, trying to make your theology fit, your thinking! Thats Eisegeses. John 1:9 is not speaking of salvation! It simply means, that every man, knows there is a God. Its called "the creation". Verse 11 says, He (Jesus) came to His own meaning, mankind in general, then it says, and those who were His own, means the jewish people.

And I like how you avoided 1Cor. 2:14 which says, The natural man(which is everyone) does not accept things of Spirit.

[gracetruthguy]

Hi Haukman66,

Then it says, but His own received Him not.

Then it says "as many as received Him He gave the right to become children of God" John 1:12

So yeap IT IS ABOUT SALVATION.

As for 1 Cor.2:14 I recommend my video entitled:

"Quick Answers to Calvinists 1 Corinthians 2:14 - Jacques More"

[Haukman66]

@gracetruthguy No, verse 9, from your previous comment, is NOT about salvation, when it says "gives light to every man"! It is saying that "every man" knows there is a God, that they have enough light to be without excuse. And again, you refer me to your silly videos, that just twist the verses. As I told you , just because you make a video, doesnt make it the truth.

[gracetruthguy]

Hi Haukman66,

Perhaps you might like to quote where it says "gives light to every man" means it is different than its own context of "as many as received Him He gave the right to become children of God"?

You are following a doctrine that rips apart passages out of context and adds it to others ripped out of context. Just like the enmy used it in tempting Jesus in the wilderness. Why?

Because it is a doctrine of demons. 1 Tim.4:1

[Haukman66]

@gracetruthguy its very simple. All you have to do, is come to the text without your preconceived theology. You must be a universalist, to add to the long list of heretical views you hold to. "As many as received Him, to THEM, He gave to right to become children. There are 2 different groups in view, those who recieve Him,and those who dont. But every man has the light, the revelation of God, to know He exists. Romans 1:18-20.

[gracetruthguy]

Hi Haukman66,

The bible is clear people will go to hell, so I'm no universalist

But, those who go there is because they did not receive - they did not use the ability to receive given to all - the light of Life: Jesus as the Logos and this is seen by the fruits of their lives: lawlessness.

If your take of Romans 1:18-20 is universal - Ur words "they all know He exists" - then do you not take it that everyone is mentioned in Romans 3:11 "there is none who understands"?

[Haukman66]

@gracetruthguy Yes, I do take it literally, that none who understands. Just because everyone knows, that God exists, doesnt mean they are saved. A child would understand this. But like I showed you, 1Cor. 2:14 tells us the natural man(meaning everyone) does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, they are foolishness to him.  It takes a work of God for a sinner to believe. Only those who are the elect will believe. John 10:27,Acts 13;48.

[gracetruthguy]

Hi Haukman66,

Either they understand or they do not. You can't have it both ways!

I recommend my video entitled:

"Quick Answers to Calvinists 1 Corinthians 2:14 - Jacques More"

And,

"Quick Answers to Calvinists Acts 13:48 - Jacques More"

John 10:27 "My sheep hear My voice" you have to become a sheep that follows first. This passage does not tell how that happens.

There are no elect individuals.

See "Quick Answers to Calvinists The Elect - Jacques More"

[Haukman66]

@gracetruthguy Dude, you are ridiculous. Do you know how to read? 1Cor. 2:14 says, the natural, unregenerate man, does not accept the things of God. How does this say, they do? I told you, it takes Gods grace for anyone to believe. John 10:27 says, His sheep Hear. It doesnt say, they Hear, THEN become sheep. They are already sheep, the elect, and they know Jesus' voice, they hear His words.

[gracetruthguy]

Hi Haukman66,

I've already pointed you to my answer to 1 Cor.2:14, but you haven't looked have you?

Let alone about the 'elect'?

So that, anymore unintelligent responses: a total lack of true dialogue being evident and I will delete these.

[Haukman66]

@gracetruthguy hey, you do what you have to. I have brought forth, scripture after scripture, to show you , that you are in error. You are not teachable. You dont want to know the truth. And the reason I havent watched your videos, is I have seen plenty of your scripture twisting, here in the comments. I dont think I can take a 10 minute video. Sorry.

[gracetruthguy]

Hi Haukman66,

The deal is I have given a specific answer to each of the Scriptures you have 'brought forth'. To these answers you have not responded. Therefore who is the unteachable one?

Of course if you don't look at the answers and want to believe what you want to believe you were always free to do that.

[Haukman66]

@gracetruthguy Okay, I have just watched your 1Cor. 2:14 video. And it proves my point, that you dont know how to read the verse. So, Paul made a distinction between the Spiritual, and the Natural. I have no problem there. Paul, was talking about the natural man, since early in the Book. (try 1:18-25) And it seems you are trying to say, the natural man, is a 'babe' in Christ. 'Babes' in Christ, dont consider the' things' of God foolishness! You keep trying to hold on to that 'Freewill"!

[gracetruthguy]

Hi Haukman66,

When a Christian is in the flesh, he sins against God just as Paul talks about this in Romans 8:5-6 and as per the NKJV:

"There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, WHO DO NOT WALK ACCORDING TO THE FLESH, BUT ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT" Romans 8:1

This is exactly the same in 1 Corinthians 2:14 IN CONTEXT as per the video.

Free-will was universally taught for 400 years before Augustine deviated from sound doctrine.

[Haukman66]

@gracetruthguy You just cant see it can you? 1Cor. 2:14 is making a distinction, between the natural man and the spiritual man. Paul is writing to believers, and uses the term "We"(verse 12) as well as "us". In which things "we" also speak,not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit(verse13). Notice, he is speaking of "Us" as spiritual. Christians to be precise. Then he goes on in verse 14 to make the comparison, with the little word, "BUT". Its plain as day!

[gracetruthguy]

Hi Haukman66,

I agree IF Paul had stopped there, BUT THEN you see WHY he is saying ALL THIS. You know, the context.

"And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual - SEE YOU ARE NOT LIKE THOSE OF "US" I HAVE DESCRIBED AS YOU SHOULD BE - but as to carnal - YES "YOU" ARE BEING THE NATURAL ONES - as to babes in Christ - AS IF YOU HAD LEARNED NOTHING." 1 Corinthians 3:1

Do you not see this context?

[Haukman66]

@gracetruthguy Exactly!! They were acting like the unregenerate! That is what Paul is saying. You need to grow, from babes, to adults! He says, he could not speak to them as spiritual, but as men of the flesh. Infants in Christ, are still fleshly. But they grow in Spirituality. These people did not grow! He is admonishing them. Hmm...must be why he tells them in chapter 6- Do not be deceived, neither fornicators nor idolators, nor adulterers .......will inherit the kingdom of heaven.

[gracetruthguy]

Hi Haukman66,

So, here you agree with me that even Christians can act as 'the natural man' so that it is not about God's enabling, but the willingness of the individual not to be that way.

For them to be Chrsitian at all they have to have God's Spirit in their lives, is that not so?

Then, the natural man is not that way because he cannot be otherwise, but because he does not want to be otherwise, though he can turn and ask God for a new heart.

cf. Ezekiel 18:31

[Haukman66]

@gracetruthguy Uhh, no. You still cant get around the fact, Paul is speaking of the natural man, without Christ. We are not born into this world as children of God, but of wrath. Eph. 2:3. So the natural man, would obviously be those outside of Christ. So Paul is explaining that these people are acting like the unregenerate, and might not be saved. And no, man cannot turn on his own. As Jer. 13:23 tells us, unless the ethiopian can change his skin, or the leopard his spots....NO!

[gracetruthguy]

Hi Haukman66,

For Ephesians 2:1 and associated I recommend this video:

"Quick Answers to Calvinists Ephesians 2:1 - Jacques More"

Jeremiah 13:23 is specific: it is about those who are "accustomed to do evil"

So, in context all can turn as the least needed is a cry out for help. But those who want evil and are accustomed to it God does not help.

It is those who hunger and thirst after righteousness the Scripture tells us will be filled.

[polopowers1]

Please work with last polopowers comment and work up thank you .Now you can study Romans 9.Clearly seeing God is not sovereign in control only but more .God has ordained Jacob and Esau to do His will.And though God has ordained these men they did not know and we do not know what God has ordained. Therefore its not fatalistic but suspenseful to submit in fear to His ordained will.

[polopowers1]

God is Spirit and in His Spirit is Virtue and they are perpetually in union.God passed Moses in Spirit revealing Virtue I will be merciful,I will be compassionate,I will graceful etc.Spirit and Virtue never existed without the other.God's self existing Life is in perpetual Spirit Virtue of His existence! Therefore if He suspended His knowledge at any time He would suspend His Life which is impossible.Man cannot be independent virtue or attribute,God has ordained all things and man is powerless.

[polopowers1]

As usual people begin rebuking doctrine without first considering the Nature of God.Calvin was not a true sovereigntist.God in Nature cannot be suspended in Virtue or attribute which is really what this man is saying.He is saying God can suspend His knowledge,mercy,truth,power,wi­sdom,to man for independent acting of these virtues or attributes.Impossible ! God cannot suspend His life of freedom to any entity created.......Further comments to clarify see next post

[gracetruthguy]

Hi polopowers1,

Paul said,

"All Scripture is . . . profitable for doctrine" 2 Tim. 3:16

This being so when I read,

". . . God withdrew from him, in order to test him, that He might know all that was in his heart"

2 Chronicles 32:31

I attach it to all the other mentions of God's knowledge and conclude God knows all that is knowable, but it excludes what is yet decided and He thereby has to search out.

If U read Calvin's Institutes you would see his view differs from this.

[polopowers1]

@gracetruthguy God withdrew to see what was in His heart ?Do you mean God was in suspense of what was in His heart?Who might know what is in his heart?Not God already knew. Where would God withdraw too?Its the man who might know what is in his heart without God restraing.( that is the context.)What can God search out? What is not yet decided?God cannot suspend His freedom. Not knowing yet makes him a prisoner to man and less than perpetual knowledge. Please read again comment God is Spirit...

[gracetruthguy]

Hi polopowers1,

The text is explicit:

"that He might know"

Why do you not want to believe the Scripture?

[polopowers1]

@gracetruthguy Yes, that He might know what is in his heart . The withdrawal is the man to know what is in his heart God is teaching without Him man would have a diifferent heart.There is no teaching God can suspend His Life.Which came first God's Spirit or His Virtues (,mercy grace, goodnes etc.) God was always Virtue and Spirit simutaneousy.God is Spirit Virtue.But if He suspends His power or knowledge He is no longer self existing Life. People acting independent of God take away His freedom!

[gracetruthguy]

Hi polopowers1,

Please tell me, if Scripture is your source of belief, what passage do you use to support the idea that God's knowledge is a virtue?

Equally, what passage do you use to support the idea that angels or men are not given freedom to choose and thus evil they commit is God's responsibility as they cannot do otherwise as God made them thus? Do you really believe evil came from God?

[polopowers1]

@gracetruthguy Knowledge is an attribute I never said it is a virtue.Though no thought of God is absent of the virtue of holiness.You never answered how God can suspend His Virtue But you want me to answer on the defense, okay. I never said men don't choose neither did I say it is God's responsibility.I choose subjectively everyday when I don't admit complete powerlessness to God.God holds me responsible for my taking my own power imanginative and acting out. continuing........

[gracetruthguy]

Hi polopowers1,

I do not know where you get the idea that I suggest God can suspend His virtue(?)

[polopowers1]

@gracetruthguy God created the tree of the knowledge of good and "evil" and called it good.God created knowledge of evil and good.He can have knowleledge not a virtue of evil within Himself.That knowledge was powerless in man.There is no virtue created in man that man himself by choice can invent.Evil was created to show by difference who God is to bring a greater relationship through redemption.Adam ate not decieved in all clarity no sinner has ever sinned exactly like that again.

[gracetruthguy]

Hi polopowers1,

What is evil at the stage of Creation?

Does the knowledge of it consist of all evil possible or just what was self- evident at the time (to God)?

There is a useful contrast in Isaiah 45:7

BUT IT IS TO BE NOTICED 2 different verbs are used.

The word Create does not apply in the same way to both.

Now, what is needful in our exchange is to know if you believe man and angels are free to choose or are not?

If so, what Scripture do you base that on?

[polopowers1]

@gracetruthguy the more we communicate the less i feel you understand.The whole definition of free will is the suspension of God's Nature You want scripture I give you God created the tree of knowledge of good and evil and you ask me what is evil at the stage of creation/ When i explained it is all good but the tree was created by God Your not going to unnderstand more scriptire if this is what your stuck on. God created the tree which fruit held evil .The best in your walk bye

[gracetruthguy]

Hi Polopowers1,

I understand that your universe involves God's Nature suspension if free will is a reality.

However, you need to define God's Nature in saying that.

The lack of free-will is a teaching new to the Church from the 5th century and begun by Augustine: the effective founder of Calvinism. The bible has been mis-translated since with bias towards that.

I believe God has 'suspended' part of His freedoms in order to be with other free moral, beings but His Nature is unchanged.

[TennesseeOwnsMyBones]

Good work, gracetruthguy... 5 stars.

[gracetruthguy]

Thank you

[tezkingkong]

I had an Aunty "Nor" :)

[gracetruthguy]

Hi Terry,

Did she make nice soup?

;)

[tezkingkong]

Maybe...If she did,I never got to try it...We lived miles apart :)

God bless,Jacques.

[raggedy80]

Romans 21-23

21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory...

Is this about individuals, GTG? Does the bible say " afore prepared unto glory?

[gracetruthguy]

Hi Brandon,

How are you?

This is a quick flying visit (by me to comment)

I recommend my video:

"Romans 9:22-23 versus Calvinism - Jacques More"

Or perhaps for you to wait for the 3rd instalment in the Quick Answers to calvnists Romans 9 series which will cover Romans 9:20-23

Have a great weekend!

[raggedy80]

I'll wait for your third installment.

You have a great weekend too.