THE BIBLICAL DOCTRINE OF PRE-TRIB RAPTURE OF THE CHURCH 2

[RememberPaulRevere]

Isaiah 28:12-13 ""..yet they would not hear" But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, line upon line,..that they might go, ball backward, be broken, snared and taken.

Isaiah 28:14-22 Who is "death"? Christ defeated him, so what does that mean to you?

[RememberPaulRevere]

"The Danger of teaching a non-pre-trib rapture of the church, warnings from Paul and Peter."

Jesus tells us as do EVERY prophet in the bible. They warn us about FALSE PROPHETS....when are people gonna READ and understand the Word as written and not based on misinterpretation of fearful men?

Jer 14:13-16

Those "taken" are taken by the anti-christ. Those left are STILL working in the field having patience, trusting in Our Lord until the 7th Trump when He returns HERE, then we gather unto Him.

[Myhopeisinhim]

@lorijeans59

Ya, i think we need to be careful and not consider those who believe in a post trib or pre wrath rapture as scoffers because they do believe in th return of christ.

When do you believe the trib started? And do you believe the trib is a 7 year period?

[Myhopeisinhim]

now I'm not saying michael is the withholder but you have to admit that that verse is closer than anything on can find pertaining to the Spirit of God being removed before to catapult this world into the trib.

[Myhopeisinhim]

@mytreasure777

i think you may be misquoting joel 2:28. Do you remember in the book of acts 2:14+. The outpouring of the Spirit spoken in Joel occurred at pentacost. The people didn't understand what was happening and so Peter explained it to them. There is no verse that says the Spirit must be removed for trib to start.

There is however a verse in the old testament that speaks of Michael standing up and then a time of trouble greater than anything before rises.

[lorijeans59]

THIS ISSUE HERE IS NOT THAT THERE WILL B A RAPTURE cause we all know yhat it will happen. This issue is the timing. Since we are in tribulation at this second and the rapture clearly is stated in Rev 11 to happen at the sounding of the 7th and final trumpet, the rapture can not b pre trib or mid trib, but has to b pre wrath. That means right before the 3rd woe and b4 GOD'S wrath is poured out of the vials onto the wicked.At that time we are removed to the Wedding Supper of the Lamb Peace to you

[dmac333100]

"dmac333100 The failing of the pre-trib-rap to take place will cause the great falling away. The rapture doctrine has been misunderstood by many in that they place it before the tribulation period. I beg to differ from that understanding. The rapture is not pre-tribulation, it is a post tribulation rapture, at the sound of the last trumpet, not the first trumpet. The so called Christians will go through the tribulation period except those who die from natural or accidental death."

[rossdaboss1959]

Great message! God bless you!

[JoBernard12oxen]

You said someone used I Cor.15:23 to say since the end is after the rapture the rapture is at the end, as with pt 1 you twist words,I Cor.15:22,23 says "in Christ shall all be made alive....at his coming. that's the point: Christ was first to be raised and at his coming then all that are Christ's shall be made alive. vrs.52 say's we shall be changed at the last trumpet...which is the last of 7 trumpets Rev.11:15 when Christ return with the saints as in I Cor.6:2 the saints judge the world

[JoBernard12oxen]

Rapture lies, here's the truth. II Thess. Chap.1&2:You believers are a symbol of suffering persecution and tribulation..its only right for God to repay “tribulation” to those that trouble you, so rest in peace with those of us that have passed on, when Jesus comes with mighty angels to repay the disobedient he will glorify his saints, but we beg you by his coming and our gathering together unto him, don't believe that day comes until that man of sin be revealed and is destroy at Christ coming.

[AMATTEROFTRUTH]

@victoriabenn It sounds like a post-tribulation or second coming verse, because it is one. Every verse where Jeus is coming as a THIEF in the night is referring to the DAY of the Lord or WRATH of God, which takes place at the second coming of Jesus. Think this through for yourself. The resurrection of the dead in Christ takes place AT the time of the LAST TRUMPET. Keep in mind that there is a TRUMPET blown AT the SECOND COMING of Jesus and there can only be ONE LAST trumpet. Do not be deceived.

[rossdaboss1959]

@AMATTEROFTRUTH It's not true at all what you're saying. And remember Galatians 1:6-9. Don't be cursed. It's not about what u think or say, it's about what the Holy Ghost teaches u from the word of God. First, one need to have the Holy Ghost before they start trying to teach anything. 1 Corinthians 2:11-14. U need the spirit to be able to understand what the Bible is really saying. Acts 2:38 is still God's plan of salvation for all people. Have u received it yet? It's real!

[rossdaboss1959]

@victoriabenn People are getting things mixed up first because many don't even have the Holy Ghost to teach them. Second, many are thinking that the church has taken the place of Israel. That's why they can't understand that the rapture is for the church n the second coming is for Israel. Don't u see that the church n Israel are both on the earth now? Acts 2;38 is still God's plan of salvation for all people. He is not the author of confusion. Jude 14Coming with his saints.

[danny19691969]

read revelation chapter 5 vers 8-10, here the church is raptured out, before the antichrist comes in revelation chapter 6

[TheMrGobble]

VERY well put and hopefully the post tribbers will see Gods true word.

[1john1423]

mark 13:14

But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing (5756) where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains

[1john1423]

there where false teachers their even as there is now use all the verse 2 thessalonians 2:3

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2:4

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

[kingofkleen1]

You are confused.

The Olivet Discourse is clear: it all happened within 40 yr generation from the day Jesus spoke it.

SEE: Matt 23:36; & 24;34; Luke 21:32; Mark 13:30

The 'Tribulation' was the period beginning with the Roman siege of Jerusalem:

" when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies" Luke 21:20

"then shall be great tribulation..." Matt 24:21

To say the Rapture/Resurrection is "Pre-trib" is ridiculous, since we are still here.

[kingofkleen1]

The Resurrection is the same event as the Rapture (1Thess 4:16,17), so this happens "at his coming. Then the end" 1 Cor 15:23-24

There is nothing and no-one left behind after "the end". The end is the end, it's over.

The 2nd Coming, the Rapture, Resurrection, the Final Judgment - all are at the end (John 5:28,29 & John 6:39,40,44,54), and nothing follows except Eternity.

[kingofkleen1]

"A gap between 1 Cor 15:23 & 24"????

Are you mad?

Paul, who waxed eloquent at every opportunity, didn't even hint about any 'gap".

If there were such a glorious period lasting as long as 1000 yrs between the Resurrection and the end, wild horses couldn't prevent Paul from describing it in at least a few chapters length!

A 1000 yr gap - all hidden in a comma????

You then force obscure passages from other books (which could mean something else entirely) to make your case!

Very weak !

[psxwarrior]

Uh, read the book of Revelation. It says, clearly 1000 years.

[kingofkleen1]

Uh, my point is that Paul had an chance to wax eloquent on the millennium & didn't! Very unlike him, that. After all, he was describing the sequence of events involving the 2nd Coming, yet failed to say even a word about any 1000 year period (allegedly) between the 2nd Advent & the resurrection! How curious!

The millennium is ONLY described in Rev 20 and NOWHERE ELSE! Since Rev is written in symbolic language (Rev 1:1- signified), it must figuratively mean a LONG TIME.

[Kyoshiko]

This makes you wonder if we are leaving early in a pre trib rapture, What are these people falling away from? If all the Christians are gone how can they fall away?

[Kyoshiko]

Yes! The rapture is coming.

Jesus said (Matt 24) AFTER GREAT TRIBULATION, then he will gather us.

Nobody is leaving early!

[rahul2col]

if jew DNA is a guarantee for paradise then christ died in vain.if they are chosen why were they ass kicked starting from egyptians,persians,romans,arab­s,russians,germans.etc.why the so called promise which was not fulfilled but was only a conditional garantee only they kept their faith which they always failed by worshipping golden calf and sacrificing children to baal,rejecting and helping to crucify the lord.even todays most leftist organisations ACLu in america are founded and run by jews.

[RaptureMe2]

Someone needs to warn dying2self.

[mytreasure777]

I would not advice anyone to rely on the salvation after the rapture. Now The Holy Spirit has been poured down on earth to save people, His work is extremely powerful to convince people to get saved, we are immersed in the salvation influence of Him.

After the rapture when He is taken out of the way, God is not only restraining His work, will work against salvation of people by a deluding spirit.

So the warning of preachers to get saved now are founded, God is using now the full power.

[TheMrGobble]

You are severely mis-guided. Do you even follow Christ?

[mytreasure777]

you might be right in one thing: you might be there when the man of sin will sign the peace treaty at the first seal.

[pgpeachess]

@mytreasure777 even though i agree with you in general, i'm confused as far as rev. 7: 14; who are those people?

[mytreasure777]

It is also true that the two witnesses and the their fruit, the 144000 witnesses, will also preach under the power of the Holy Spirit, but the ministry of the Holy Spirit will be totally different than that during church age.

The Holy Spirit was on earth before the Pentecost, John20:22, yet He was sent-poured from heaven at Pentecost. At rapture He will be called back to heaven from the 'pouring work' but He will continue to be present on earth. So 'he' in 2Th2:7 is the Holy Spirit.

[Myhopeisinhim]

@mytreasure777

Remember the bible tells us that by the mouths of two or three witnesses shall every word be established. Can you find another verse that shows the tribulation starting after the Holy Spirit is removed?

[mytreasure777]

@Myhopeisinhim

When the Lord was tempted He answered with only one passage, When the Sadducees tried to mock the resurrection the Lord used also just one passage, Ex 3:6. To make some doctrines clear many pieces are put together, like the author of Hebrews does in Heb 2. So, Joel 2:28-32, the Holy Spirit poured in tribulation proves that was removed previously and take then take another passage where the church is removed and you have the Holy Spirit 'out of the way (midst)' as in Col 2:14.

[mytreasure777]

The Holy Spirit was present on earth even before Pentecost and people were saved also.

After the rapture God will send a spirit of delusion, 2Th2:11, meaning the Holy Spirit will not work to convince people of their sins, John16:8, but only assist those choosing not to obey the Antichrist, Mar13:11.

Rapture will be the reverse of Pentecost (so here is the pre-trib rapture).

Another pouring of the Holy Spirit will be for Israel just before the second coming, Zec12:10.

[TheBlackDragon777]

People will have to make a clear and decise desicion: Jesus or Anti-Christ. However, people who lost loved ones in the Rapture God will use. Also the 144,000 Jews all around the world who He will mark and use to preach to the world about Jesus; not too mention the 2 Witnesses (possibly Moses and Elijah)!

Some people will come to Christ, that is fact in Revelation: they lose their heads for it! However, many will still deny Him and follow the Anti-Christ.