I was raised to believe that you went to heaven when you died but I have since learned different. What the SDA's teach makes so much more sense to me and has bible verses to back it up. I have a question that I have never heard brought up. My question is to people who believe that you go to heaven when you die. Why would our loving God want his children up there with him looking down on their loved ones suffering in this sinful world? And also why do the old tombstones say R.I.P.?
Christ became what He was not, so I could become what I am not
He was treated as I deserve so I can be treated as He deserves
In my place He stood sealed me with His blood
Barabbas, ur 2nd name & mine, condemned to death, a very bad man Nothing he could do & Jesus takes his place. Friends we are Barabbas, Jesus has taken our place
He was flogged & by His stripes our wounds would be healed
Lets start with the second coming cause that's my favorite. "For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the AIR. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18. So I have that covered. Next one.
@sr1215cl Actually let me explain this verse. You see there is a clear distinction between two groups of humans, There is a dead group that is risen from the graves/ground/water and then there is a group that is still alive. The dead rise first then we that are still alive will be caught up with them in the air to be with Jesus Christ. This is not a all die and then go to heaven. This is literal and not spiritual verse. Every eye will see him including the evil that are still alive on earth.
@TheGin151 Oh dude he'd win cause he would use tons of scripture and they would use one or non to back up their claims. This guy like really really knows his Bible. I need to study my Bible more.
No man is justified by the law in the sight of God, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us. Faith Alone, Grace Alone, Christ Alone.
@tygew I think that what 459tripe3 is getting at is the Bible is crystal-clear on the state of the dead. Specifically, Ecclesiastes does a good job of summing it up in chapter 9 vs 4-6: a living dog is better than a dead lion...the living know they will die, but the dead know NOTHING...their love, hatred, envy, etc perishes with them. They aren't floating around as ghosts or spirit-bodies, they are resting and waiting for the resurrection of the righteous and of the wicked.
@MentorOfMinos The dead rose at the cross, the thief did too, and he was in heaven "that day". The dead slept in graves till Jesus. Behold I tell you a mystery, at our deaths we shall not sleep, but rather we'll be changed to a resurrected spirit, instantly "in the twinkling of an eye". Then we'll see the spiritual realm, Jesus and clouds of spirits/angels.
The bible is not literal, it's spiritual and the 7DA are very very very lost in this.
@tygew read Ecclesiastes 9:5 and 1Corinthians 15:12-22. Your comment about in death we shall not sleep, well look at verse 18 " then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished". Perish: to become destroyed or ruined : cease to exist-Marriam Webster dictionary. You have no scripture to back you claims, not one but this pastor has tons of verses. Did you even watch the video?
@tygew You misquoted 1 Corinthians 15:51. Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not ALL sleep, but we shall all be changed." Taking out "all" puts that verse in a whole new context which will in turn misleads people to believe that we'll never fall asleep but go straight to heaven. I'd question the church and or teachers , assuming that you do attend one, teachings because its not scriptural at all.
@sr1215cl 1 Cor 15:51 in the Gr says that "you all" (as in "all you Christians") not sleep all will be transformed: ἰδοὺ μυστήριον ὑμῖν λέγω· πάντες οὐ κοιμηθησόμεθα, πάντες δὲ ἀλλαγησόμεθα.
We CHRISTIANS will not all sleep at our deaths, but rather we shall be changed to a resurrected spirit, instantly "in the twinkling of an eye". before the cross they slept in graves. But now I share a mystery: "We no longer sleep in graves AFTER CHRIST, but rather we're changed to a spirit, instantly.
@tygew Did you even read verse 52 cause it gives the time when we all will be changed or transformed. IT says and this is the greek translation, "we shall be changed, in uncut (time), in twinkling of eye, AT THE LAST TRUMPET; it will trumpet for , and the dead(ones) will be raised up incorruptible..." Question when will the "last trumpet sound", Answer when Jesus returns to earth (second coming). This idea of going to God as soon as you die was derived from purgatory.
@sr1215cl There is no such thing as PURGE-atory. When people died BEFORE Jesus they slept in graves. But after the cross people no longer sleep in graves. Read Dan 12:2, Rev 1:5 and Matthew 27:52-53 to see the light. We no longer sleep in graves, but rather we the dead will resurrect instantly 'in the twinkling of an eye' -- for the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed to a resurrected spirit'
@tygew So I looked up those verses you gave me and still its doesn't support you idea that see don't sleep but are changed as soon as we die. Please read the verses in Daniel 12:1-3 cause its talking about the very end of earth history, the time of trouble as talked in verse 1. When reading the Bible its very important to read the verses before and after, this way you'll know what its talking about. As for Revelations 1:5 I'm not sure how this supports anything that we're talking about.
Dan12:1-3 was fulfilled at the cross, "at that time", when the people were delivered. God showed me these things, these are not of me they are of Him. I use to believe the lies that you believe till God Himself taught me the truth, that all was fulfilled at the cross. The only event to come is our deaths "the unknown hour, when Jesus comes as a thief in the night, when two are alive 1 dies & the other remains alive. Death is "the end" spoken of. There is no end of the world, its "end of the age"
P.S. Revelation 1:5 "Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead" Jesus was the first to rise from the dead (1Cor15:20-26), then those who slept rose, then everyone else who has ever died since that day has been translated instantly "in the twinkling of an eye" from a dead body to a resurrected spirit; and we too shall rise instantly at our deaths: "we shall not sleep but rather we (at our deaths) shall be changed instantly (to a resurrected spirit). Death is "the end"
@sr1215cl ...but Jesus is the resurrection, that's why he said 'Lazarus rise' to prove just that point. Read the whole chapter and you will see that it's true that Jesus is the beginning of the resurrection of the dead; which is the beginning of "the day of the Lord", a time-period of judgment of the dead -- from the cross, till now, till whenever. There is no end of the world, it's "the end of the age', the end of our lives on earth. Death is when we are judged, at our own 'day of the Lord'.
@tygew Now I know where you are coming from. Remember God does not contradict Himself whatsoever. In a sense you're right about the world not ending, but read 2 peter 3:10. Maybe I'm just reading you comments wrong. How the world ends and what really happens at the end doesn't really matter, what does matter is how we are saved and how to keep trusting Him no matter what comes our way. I prey that we will meet in heaven some day and laugh about all of this, it'll be meaningless. May God save us.
2Pet3:1-10 is about our deaths: "the end" of the physical realm, the unknown hour, when we resurrect instantly "each in his own order" as a resurrected spirit. Jesus is the resurrection of the dead. We do not sleep in graves any more, but rather at our deaths we rise instantly, "each in his own order" as a resurrected spirit. Our death is our own day of the lord, which comes as a thief in the night. To God the day of the Lord is a time period from the cross till now. But to us it's our own death
@tygew And Matthew 27:52-53 still doesn't support your idea. Question, if we are already there then what is the whole Second coming of Christ even for? IF that is so then it sounds like Jesus is making two trips for the same person which doesn't make sense to me assuming that they(the dead one) are already in heaven. Do you believe in the Second coming of Christ or not and if so do you believe hes coming for the living and/or the dead? Our belief has to be supported only by scripture.
Mat 27:52-53 says that the dead (who were SLEEPING in graves) woke & appeared to many. This "resurrection of the dead" happened AFTER Jesus died: First Jesus rose from the dead, then the dead woke, then those who died after the cross have all already risen "each in his own order" (1Cor 15:23) each at his own death. Our deaths are "the end" of this world, the end of the age, the end of the physical realm, but ONLY for the one who dies: "2 are alive, 1 dies, the other remains alive" = our deaths.
@tygew when people died prior to jesus IF they werent hell bound they awaited in abraham's bosom because the only way to enter the kingdom was thru christ most will not enter the kingdom, scripturally ignorant without excuse lacking luv 4 truth..God isnt within any church anywhere today only worldly passions most have the beasts mark ..i know u do by yer comment..fear isnt just a motivator but the beginning of..huh? all "christians" sin daily thought word deed blink of an eye, very soon
@dubvishun Nope you're confused. People slept in graves till Jesus; some rose to eternal life, some to eternal; darkness Dan12:2 "many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.. Then Ezekiel 37:13 & Mat 25:46 were fulfilled with Jesus death: Matt 27:52 "the tombs were opened; and many bodies of the saints that had fallen asleep were raised". Test it and see the light. may God/Jesus open your eyes to His view..
@tygew Purgatory was made up by the Catholic church at a time when it was in debt. A person would pay money to the church to get their loved ones out of purgatory and in so get a document claiming that the transfer was done. It was a evil scam that worked and now its been blown out of proportion. Now you know where your belief came from, not from the Bible but from man. Don't take my word for it do your own history homework.
@sr1215cl I don't believe in the UNBIBLICAL teaching of purgatory. This is the ONLY truth: We live, we die at an unknown hour, then we instantly stand before God. Any church view or teaching that contradicts what I just said is false and of Satan. We live (either for God or for ourselves), then we die (at an unknown hour), then we instantly resurrect as a resurrected spirit & stand before God, then we're judged to either eternal life, or eternal darkness. Period! That is thee ONLY truth.
@tygew I am not an sda but you are not right, if you read the text it says that MANY of the saints giving a significat amount in numbers, but not indicating a fullness, Jesus himslef said "I Go so that I may COME BACK AGAIN and gather you to myself so that WHERE I AM YOU MAY BE ALSO. Jesus did not indicate that when we die we are with him but indicated when he comes back we are with him
@FrofLrd Jesus is a spirit, called 'cloud'. He left in a cloud & his {presence/parousia/coming} is as an UNSEEN cloud/spirit. You will not see Jesus till the day you die. When Jesus comes & gathers you to Himself it will be the day you die. Where He is IN THE UNSEEN SPIRITUAL REALM you can not go till the day you die. Your death is "the end" WHEN your kingdom/spirit is gathered to God, as clarified in 1 Cor 15:20-26 Read it then get back to me. The end in v24 is our deaths, as clarified in v26
@tygew Jesus is much more than spirit. His ressurection was a bodily ressurection. And we will be raised 1 thess 4. Our deaths are just temporary until he does return. The bible is not a "spiritualized book" there are parts that are literal, parts that are not. the hebrew people were an idiomatic people and at times it is hard to seperate them becuase of our lack of knowledge of thier culture. I will not pretend to know all the specifics, but I will say that in the end as long as we are.....
@tygew living our lives according to the way it is outlined in scripture, to believe, and live by his commands living a holy seperate life not conformed to the world. it doesn't matter our goal is set before us. we can debate little things but to no avail, what is important is the death burial, ressurection, to faith and a tranformed life
@FrdOfLrd God/Jesus is the one who showed me these truths. They are not of me they are of Him. What I have shared with you is truth from God. Let Him be the judge and strike me dead if I have lied to you. Amen.
We do not sleep in graves till some future judgment day. At each of our deaths we resurrect "each in his own order" as a spirit, instantly in the twinkling of an eye. Death is "the end" mentioned in 1Cor15:20-26 & in Rev 2:26. Test it I did.
@tygew Not to be condemning but this should be a red flag. God does not anylonger give "divine inspiriation" uncovering a new truth. I certianly am not saying he does not speak to us, but he does not reveal any new meaning.
@FrndOfLrd It's not a new teaching, it's the real & ONLY teaching taught by God/Jesus the Holy Spirit. The teachings that you adhere to are those of men & not of God. Jesus will never RETURN as you believe. His return/parousia has been here as unseen Spirit since the day He died. Yes he came back as flesh, but He's God the Holy Spirit speaking to the churches in Rev 2. he's unseen spirit "Where 2 or more are gathered there He is in the midst" as unseen Spirit. His presence is omnipresent Spirit
cont: The days will come when you'll desire to SEE one of the days of Jesus, BUT YOU WON'T SEE IT". His presence is as the flash of light from lightening that shines from the east even unto the west -- everywhere at once, so if anyone says 'Here he is' don't believe them. Jesus is unseen Spirit - as the one God, as the one unseen Holy Spirit. I the LORD your God am ONE! as one Holy Spirit who is God/Jesus.
God/Jesus is the one who taught me that He is one God, as the Holy Spirit. I asked God if He was Jesus or not, that I didn't know how to find it in scripture & if He would just open my bible to it. So I picked up my bible & tried to open it to about a third of the way in (to about Kings or so), but instead it opened to the book of John. I then read v1-8 saying "So!" But He said "READ ON!" then I read to v14 & smiled "The word (YHWH God) became flesh ;-) Now I never doubt God!
@tygew I don't hold to a view on the subject either way, it is not imporant part of doctrine to run the race. Death burial ressurection, the covenant and living in that covenant is whats important. Sadly The devil gets everyone wrapped up in this other stuff to take focus off of the Messiah, and that covenant. Sadly we have seperatated over some of these issues which will have its day in court as well
@FrndOfLrd That was a pretty weak reply for someone who came at me claiming that I wasn't telling the truth. Now you back out saying salvation & living for God is the real subject. True but not in this conversation here. This conversation (for e few years now!) has been about ALL OF THE LIES TAUGHT ON THIS VIDEO. This man speaking in the vid is a SPIRITUALLY BLIND, false teacher. The bible is NOT literal, it's spiritual. There is no literal New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven. We're the NJ!
@tygew No I do not think your interretation is in any form truth. I was not backing out. You want to spiritualize it fine your perogative. Through out that is not the case. our hope is in the ressurection it is not spiritual in any form. The arument between sadusee and paharasee was in fact the pharasees believed in a ressurection the sads did not. thus is the case here. I believe in a literal ressurection. The inbetween is of no conceuence.....
@tygew and I do not hold to a view on the inbetween. I do hold a view on the ressurection to be again literal, and physical. we could argue all day night week, and month and that will not change we will find ourselves in the same delimma as the sadusees and the pharasee, disagreement.
the bottom line of the whole subject is that there are things that we can diagree on, and there are things we cannot. Christs person, death, ressurection, our obedience to him, are the key focus. the rest is not other than the fact that as believers our hope is in the end we will be with him. How that is? doesn't matter.
As far as us being the nj i do not hold to replacment theology.
@FOL You're lost in every aspect there. Jesus addressed that argument saying that He IS the God of THE LIVING! & NOT of the dead, for all live unto Him: Mrk12:27He is not the God of the dead, but of the living: ye do greatly err”. Mat22:32‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’ ? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.” Luke 20:38Now he is not the God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him. Thief went to heaven that day. Peter saw Moses & Elijah
cont. 1Cor15 is ONLY speaking of us literally dying & literally resurrecting as a spirit (1Cor15:12). Our flesh bodies NEVER raise from the dead(1Cor15:50)! Our bodies rot in the ground as the spirit returns to God who gave it (Ec12:7). Flesh & blood do not EVER become everlasting spirit (1Cor15:44). We are born flesh, we're resurrected as a spirit, but only AFTER the flesh dies: 1Cor15:35-36 How foolish! What you sow (dead flesh) does not come to life (does not resurrect) UNLESS IT DIES!
cont We don't all resurrect at once, we all resurrect "each in his own order", meaning each at his own death (1Cor:15:23). We do not sleep in graves till some future judgment day, but rather we all resurrect, each at his own death, called "the end" in v24, & called "death" in v26. The bible was written to give us TRUTH not opinions! It doesn't contradict, man does! I'll show you! The JKV says at "the end" of the world 1 is taken 1 is left. How if there's no world to be left on? "The end" = death
cont It's not called "the end of the world", it's called "the end of the age". That age, or time-period, is the end of our time on earth; it's "the end of the age, the end of your time, the end of your life on earth. At "the end" Jesus comes as a cloud/spirit with all the other cloud/spirit/angel/eagles. That's why when they asked "When shall all these things be?" Jesus said "Where the dead body is there the eagles/angels shall gather", ya, gather our spirit up to God at each mans death/the end
@tygew so basically you are supporting what Satan said: "Thou shalt not surely die." The devil said to Eve that there would be no death. This belief that souls go up to heaven when the person dies is backing up the enemy's claims. Like people have said, the Bible is truth! And regarding that verse where Jesus tells the thief he will be in heaven, in the original translation there was no comma. The comma was added until later. So it reads like this, "I tell you today you..." ran out of characters
@tygew so basically you are supporting what Satan said: "Thou shalt not surely die." The devil said to Eve that there would be no death. This belief that souls go up to heaven when the person dies is backing up the enemy's claims. Like people have said, the Bible is truth! And regarding that verse where Jesus tells the thief he will be in heaven, in the original translation there was no comma. The comma was added until later. So it reads like this, "I tell you today you..." ran out of character
@yovazquez What's all that crass language on your profile? On that note you don't seem fit to even have this discussion. Satan said she would never die, but the wages of sin is death. Before Jesus people slept in graves waiting for Him to pay the price "once and for ALL". So a Christian never really dies anymore, they just pass right on to the spiritual realm. Behold I share with you a mystery, we shall not remain dead, but we shall be resurrected an eternal spirit in the twinkling of an eye ;-)
@tygew And if everything happens at death, then life as we know it, specifically sin and suffering, also continues forever and the Bible lies by telling us that sin shall be no more and that Satan and sinners shall be as though they never were.
@459triple3 You're twisting & misquoting again. It says that at our deaths (called "THE END OF THE AGE") death & pain will be no more. Death can only be "NO MORE" after one has died. Death is "the end" mentioned in 1Cor15:20-26, spec v24. Also in Rev 2:26 & 2 Thess2:2. Our deaths are "the end of the age, when Jesus comes as a thief in the night, at an unknown hour, when 2 are alive 1 is taken 1 is left, Death is what it was like in the days of Noah when they all DIED at an unknown hour.
@tygew Here we go again. So, according to you, the Bible prophecy in Daniel that speaks of God destroying all false religions and governments and setting up His kingdom on earth is a lie. According to you, Jesus lied when He said that the meek inherit the earth. According to you, the scriptures lie when they say that the wicked will be ashes under the feet of the saints. After all, this twisted theology of yours makes all these things impossible because everything happens at death.
@459trple3 The "kingdom" mentioned in Dan & elsewhere, is the unseen spiritual REIGN of God/Jesus within all born again Christians, called "the new Jerusalem". We Christians are the new Jerusalem, as a kingdom of God/Jesus's unseen Spirit within us. We BORN AGAIN Christians are "the bride", the church, the new Jerusalem. There is no literal "kingdom" coming down out of heaven adorned as a bride, because we are that bride, that kingdom made up of the Spirit REIGNING within us. Death is "the end"
@tygew How could the thief be in heaven with Jesus when Jesus was asleep in the tomb until Sunday morning? I read your story of an encounter with a ghost when you were young. I want to tell you that it was one of Satan's own, a demon not a dead person. You definitely are a truth seeker and God doesn't want you to be deceived by the father of lies. Please listen to Amazing Facts pastor on this topic. God bless you and may He lead you into all understanding.
@OL8Twho Actually Jesus is YHWH/ the word in the flesh. Jesus was not "sleeping" in a tomb lol. He is God who never sleeps, so he was preaching to the previous dead for those 3 days. God/Jesus can't die lol. He always was, He always is, He always will be! The thief was in heaven with Jesus and the angels. Jesus was also in hell speaking to the dead. He was also everywhere at once as the holy Spirit. he appeared to over 500 brethren at once. Where 2 or more are - there He is as Spirit ;-)
@tygew Also when the bible was translated there WERE NO COMMAS OR PUNCTUATIONS. The translators decided to put a comma in that place that made it seem like Jesus said today you will be with me in paradise. Switch the comma to the write word and it makes absolute sense and lines up with scripture.
@tygew \ The bible teaches that death is a sleep (Job 14:12). We aren't eternal spirits that live on without a body, we definitely die and return to dust. Why would Jesus come and call the dead from their graves if they're already in heaven? Remember, "The living know that they shall die but the dead know not anything" Eccl.9:5 Have another look at this subject. God bless you today.
@OL8Twho You're quoting the OT to push an old truth. The dead slept till Jesus, true, but after Jesus the dead do not sleep anymore. Jesus IS the resurrection of the dead; behold we don't sleep anymore, but rather we instantaneously resurrect at each persons death "in the twinkling of an eye"; from a dead body to a resurrected spirit. Death is "the end" mentioned in 1Cor15:23 and again in Rev 2:10,26. There is no "end of the world" mentioned in the bible. It's "end of the age", end of our lives.
@tygew So, dead people are not really dead? They live on without a body? So what you're saying is the same thing the serpent told Eve, 'you won't surely die'. If you want to believe that, go ahead, you won't be the first and you won't be the last one who believes Satans lie of our immortality. Jesus saves and only He is immortal. From dust thou art and to dust you will return.
@tygew So, dead people are not really dead? They live on without a body? So what you're saying is the same thing the serpent told Eve, 'you won't surely die'. If you want to believe that, go ahead, you won't be the first and you won't be the last one who believes Satans lie of our immortality. Jesus saves and only He is immortal. From dust thou art and to dust you will return.
@Crazywoodman Let me share with you a "mystery", when you die you "shall not sleep", but rather "you shall be changed" to a resurrected spirit, instantly "in the twinkling of an eye". Death is "the end" mentioned in 1Cor15:20-26 an in Rev2:10,26. Test it :-) Don't use the OT to push an old view/truth. People used to "sleep" in graves. But after Jesus 'we shall not sleep" any more, but rather we shall be changed to a resurrected spirit ;-) Only God is immortal? So are Abraham Moses an Jacob dead?
@tygew It seems you misquoted 1 Cor 15:51. When Paul says "we shall not all sleep," he is saying that many people will be alive when Jesus returns and shall not be asleep in the grave. It doesn't say "after Jesus we shall not sleep," it says "we shall not all sleep," meaning that when Jesus returns, some will still be alive and shall never taste death.
SoldierOfChrist you're wrong. V 51-56 can't contradict the first 50 verses 1Cor15:1-50 says that we die first then become spirit; that flesh does not become spirit; were born flesh then resurrected as a spirit. So v51 is saying that we (THE DEAD) don't remain dead in the grave, but rather we INSTANTLY resurrect in the twinkling of an eye. Who is "we"? The "we" is the dead. Read it again: "THE DEAD shall be raised and WE shall be changed". "We" there is us at our deaths; we're changed to a spirit
@Crazywoodman Let me share with you a "mystery", when you die you "shall not sleep", but rather "you shall be changed" to a resurrected spirit, instantly "in the twinkling of an eye". Death is "the end" mentioned in 1Cor15:20-26 an in Rev2:10,26. Test it. Don't use the OT to push an old view/truth. People used to "sleep" in graves. But after Jesus 'we shall not sleep" any more, but rather we shall be changed to a resurrected spirit ;-) Only God is immortal? So are Abraham Moses an Jacob dead?
@tygew the translators misplaced a comma in that verse. Instead of it saying " And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise." It should have said "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee today, shalt thou be with me in paradise." See the comma being placed differently changes the whole meaning of the verse. Research it if you think i'm lying.
@GodzzzSon Actually I do think you're lying and being VERY deceptive! Your theory is nuts and contradicts scripture as a whole; it's a twisted NUTTY way of seeing things. Where in scripture does Jesus speak in this manner: "I say unto you today -- you shall be with me in paradise"? Wrong! it was "I say unto you, Today though shall be with me in paradise". The thief did not "sleep" in a grave till some future judgment day, because 1Cor15:51 says "We shall not sleep" meaning we don't sleep anymore
@GodzzzSon Actually if you go to biblos dot come you'll notice that Luke 23:43, in the Greek, literally says: " kai (and/even so) ep'o (answer/say/speak) autos (to you) amén (truly/so be it) soi (you) legó (speak/I say) sémeron (today/now) meta (with/in company) emou (me/mine/my) esomai (be/shall be/come to pass) en (in/among) tō (the) paradeisō (park/garden/paradise)." Literally: "And speak to you truth to you I say today with me shall be in paradise" So your denial theory is wrong and a lie.
@tygew If Jesus took the thief to heaven that very day then how could that have been possible if Jesus died within 6 hours of being on a cross and most men die days after hanging on a cross? Also if Jesus took the thief that day to heaven why did he tell Mary in John 20:17 not to hold Him because He had not ascended up to heaven??? If Jesus had not yet ascended up to heaven yet that Sunday He arose then He couldn't have possibly took the thief that very day (Friday) to heaven.
Jn 7:23 if a child can be circumcised on the Sabbath so that the law of Moses may not be broken, why are you angry with me for healing the whole man on the Sabbath?
You are like the self righteous pharisees believing that salvation is in the law
Gal 2:16 a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus
Lk 9:22 Jesus will be rejected & killed by the (religious) elders chief priests & teachers of the law
People like you mocked Jesus when He spoke for they lacked understanding
I'm done telling you guys the truth of scripture. I'm done arguing, insulting & being insulted. God doesn't want any of us arguing or bickering over Him. He says that if we don't have love for each other, then we are just an annoying 'GONG!" that nobody even listens to. If we don't have love then we are nothing. I have argued on here out of anger and I've accomplished nothing because I lacked love. I'm sorry.
For now on please ask God for insight to his words, Jesus is your teacher Mat 23:8-10
really? you think god says that? that's funny, that's something *i* say. that's something that countless people from all over the world say, every single day, without having ever heard of some fictional character called "god."
I've seen the spiritual realm 1st hand with 5 witnesses who all fell to the floor screaming & crying as I ran my hand through the spirit in denial of what I was looking at, till it physically turned & looked me in my eyes! You can NEVER tell me that God isn't real! You are the blind man claiming that light does not exist. You obviously know nothing of truth, the spiritual realm or God. And God does speak in the hearts/minds of man, you have to listen, it's a voice of peace beyond your knowledge
why don't you elaborate on your story? if it's as true as you say, then you should be able to talk about it with complete confidence.
i have been friends with a preacher's son who had a similar story. his first telling of the story actually was believable, but when i asked questions, things started to break down.
as a man of science, an event as you described, were it as true as you claim, would obviously be proof of a god. please, go on, in a private message if you feel more comfortable.
Thanks for being honest and kind. I have elaborated on this story on one of my Myspace blogs a few years ago. You can find my page with my name Tyge Wellman. The blog is called "I called up a Ghost when I was twelve"
i appreciate it. be prepared to fight an uphill battle, especially if you haven't seen demons since then (assuming you are 38 now), and even more-so if there is room for a church leader to have orchestrated it.
from my friend's story, it seems church leaders have no problem lying to and scaring/traumatizing children (especially family members) in order to achieve their goal of creating believers. it is sad and disgraceful behavior.
I don't even know what to say to that. I don't go to church other than to speak or teach the truth. I can't just sit there an hear mans lies and unbiblical myths. I believe you about the millions of false preachers out there. God warns us of these men many times; even referring to them as godless men, bereft of the truth who think that godliness is a means to financial gain. 1 Timothy 6:3-5. These godless men will do anything to steal 10% from the fools who don't read the bible for themselves
If anyone teaches false doctrines (rapture etc) & doesn't agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ & to godly teaching, he is conceited & understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies & quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions & constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth & WHO THINK THAT GODLINESS IS A MEANS TO FINANCIAL GAIN. But godliness with contentment is great gain
you have done yourself a great disservice by reading the bible's text with such enthusiasm as many times as you surely have. it's disturbing how delusional you are, and how many people you may have convinced to believe your delusions in the wake of your little crusade.
it brings me great sadness that i can do nothing to protect the world's impressionable children from misinformation and indoctrination, that perpetuates this ridiculous cycle that create victims like yourself.
I'm not a victim kid. I didn't grow up in the church. I lived a very wild & fun godless life while running from the truth. I did acting, modeling, I was a stripper for years working with Chippendale's, LaBare, Olympic Gardens in Vegas, I did road shows & choreographed a show for the Playboy channel in Vegas. Iv'e met more beautiful woman than you can imagine, done drugs, partied everything. Till 1 empty day I said "God show me real again & I will serve you" I felt a warm oil pour down my body
Since then I went to something I didn't believe in; It was a prophesy class where God speaks through people. I said "God if this is of you then you have to blow me away" I wound up having 15 people lined up in front of me telling me things that only I knew, private prayers etc. I was on a bus leaving TX, no job, no money, no family, no car, NOTHING! So what truth could they possibly say to me a stranger? They spoke truth from the Spirit of God, it was God speaking to me through 15 people
given your current story, the seeds were planted when you were younger. you ran from them, denied god (i assume you mean you were agnostic, as i doubt you were ever atheist), lived the life you wanted to live and had fun. i guess you came to a point where you realized things weren't where you wanted them to be, felt you were missing something, maybe became desperate, and took a desperate measure.
did you deny seeing that demon your whole life, too? that's a key piece of information.
No goofball I couldn't have been agnostic since I knew beyond the shadow of a doubt that the spiritual realm was real, therefore I couldn't deny it. What I ran from was the distention & disrespect I got from teachers, adults and other people like you who live with their scared heads in a dark hole of denial
I was 12, all I could do was tell the truth. I found out real quick that we are NOT 1 nation under God, but rather 1 scared nation under lies/opinions & denial of the real truth: God is REAL
all 12 year olds can do is tell the truth?! HAHAHA.. not even close!
it's funny you use the term "scared," seeing as you live your life in fear of a fantasy. christians are the definition of a paranoid, delusional schizophrenic, to the LETTER. but they have enough influence in even the world of science to establish a catch phrase that excludes religion. what a sham..
You obviously 'think' you're smart. Then consider this, It's very generous to say that mankind knows 0.000000001% of all there is to know; and it's even more generous to say that you only know 0.000000001% of all that mankind knows
So even you have to admit that God exists in the 99.99999999999999999999999999% that you don't know. I have shared with you truth yet you deny it because it doesn't conform to your vast 0.0000000000000000000% of insight that you already have God is real & alive kid
woah, i missed a lot. you shouldn't reply to your own comments. it's easy to miss those.
what kinds of things did these 15 people tell you that only you knew? since i live in reality and know there is no god, i can say with confidence that it's a load of crap and that you were fooled.
your logic is flawed and humorously skewed by religious thought patterns. you can't quantify "everything there is to know." that would be an infinite number, because you can know things about knowing things.
in fact, the only reason you would ever even THINK about something so ridiculous is because you have a delusional belief that some entity really DOES know everything.
what we DO know is what can be observed. through observations, we have established natural patterns and the ability to explain our world. your archaic belief disregards these laws and observations entirely, completely rejecting the scientific method.
it turns out how much we know of "everything there is to know" is irrelevant.
And whatsoever place shall not receive you & they hear you not, as ye go forth thence, shake off the dust that is under your feet for a testimony unto them
wooow. you mean the bible predicts that there are people who won't believe you? it must be real! the prophecies in it come true!
your refusal to admit the 15 things that convinced you a god was speaking through these people is an obvious display of doubt. i hope you will someday break free from the restrictive spell of religion and learn that the exploration of, NOT the denial of, doubt is the only path to real truth.
Actually I did tell you the truth, but YOU are the one in doubt; I know the truth, you're the one in the dark here asking me for proof. And yes the bible mentions you many times: "the morally corrupt have set in their heart that there is no God" "Anyone who denies Jesus as the Christ & God as the Father is antichrist" etc etc
There is not enough room here to answer all your doubts. But as for my faith in God & the bible is this:
1. Age 12 I saw a ghost/demon with 5 witnesses that all saw the same thing. Then, at the same time, my mom received insight from God to pray protection over me. She confronted me about this two hours later when I got home (she never did that before or after that date)
2. Age 23 I went to inspect a church. I wound up having 15 people give prophesies to me of thoughts, prayers & things that only I knew
3. If the bible was written by men it would have glorified man & not predicted Christs birth
lol. if the bible was written by god, it wouldn't contradict itself. if i had evil intentions and wanted to create a tool to control people, i would create a religion. i would write a holy book and convince people it was the word of a god. i would promise rewards for subscribing to its teachings. i would create passages to control my followers out of fear of punishment. i would convince them that having faith is the only way to stay safe, silencing doubt, logic, and reasoning.
the bible is the perfect tool for mind control.. or was. it isn't anymore, because science has evolved and made discoveries that refute its fairy tale fantasies. but the following became a machine. it convinces people at an age when they are naive enough to believe in fairy tales, seriously retarding the development of the brain's logical ability, and establishing emotional attachment to their beliefs, reducing the chances of their recovery by the time they DO come of age.
My faith is based on personal experiences & very real, undeniable facts. Your faith lies in atheism & lies. I shared the real truth with you yet you deny the real truth because the real truth doesn't conform to your cowardly ideologies
I'm very sorry...you're lost kid. Fighting with & insulting me will never change the truth. The truth is not based off of a book written by men. God exists powerfully outside of the scriptures. Actually it's because of God that I believe the bible so very much
there's no "faith" involved in atheism.. i might have faith in certain theories, but there's nothing to place faith in when it comes to things not existing.
i don't debate with theists to change them. i debate so that i can better understand their kind. i debate so that skeptic onlookers can be exposed to reality in hopes that they might think for themselves one day.
your demon story was very helpful, but a reply to my response would have been appreciated.
also, if you believe in demons, then i most surely am one, right? or is it that the devil has possessed me? does the devil control me? or have i been tempted by sin?
how WOULD you classify me? i can't imagine that "mere mortals" would take it upon themselves to crusade against the almighty god and his followers.
A 3rd of the corrupt angels/spirits were cast out of heaven for turning against God. Your'e not a demon but you have them & you speak from the heart of your father Satan, he's a liar
God says He already wrote the truth in our hearts. That's why you're seeking the truth. We don't speak of anything new, we just reveal what's already there...truth. And His people hear His voice/truth
It takes a lot more faith to be an atheist than it does to believe God who we know to be true in our hearts/minds
that just will not work. i can't be honest with people in person. i don't have the heart to tell them they're wrong. you can delete that comment. i don't know what's with people giving me their numbers and addresses lately lol..
your statement is absolutely false.. no one has a natural predisposition to believe in religion. don't you think it's odd that NOTHING you present as "proof" goes undisputed? how can not ONE piece of evidence be true, even to scientists?
Everything can be 'proven wrong' if somebody already has their mind made up. God says the morrally corupt have already set it in their heart to deny God, because of their love for sin. If you admit that there is a God, then you have to admit that there is morals and just laws that He established. But because your heart/mind is wicked you deny God
I told you the truth yet you claim I'm lying or something. What more do you want from me?
lol.. no.. if anything can be disproved, then it's not a fact, period. there are no exceptions.
the bible is so restrictive, that any normal human being is going to desire "sin." in fact, i would be willing to go out on a limb and say that there isn't a human being who can extinguish natural human desires because a book says so.
i'm pretty sure i've already told you what i want from you and why i'm debating..
You're ignorant, rude, cocky, arrogant, self centered and very lost. I already told you everything. As far as what all 15 people said to me, it was personal things about me, my thoughts, prayers etc that were revealed to me by God through them. I also received prophesies that came true. There is not enough room to answer you here, nor do I want to waist my time writing you anymore. You're not looking for TRUTH, but rather to convince the world of your own deception. Your blind, rude and lost
what's rude is a complete disregard for science and logic. THAT'S rude.
is it rude to try to reach paranoid delusional schizophrenics? is it rude to try to help them find their way back to reality? or do you think it's acceptable to let them live their delusional lives? if you do, it's because you can relate to them.
"you're not looking for truth, but rather to convince the world of your own deception." haha.. give me a break, dude. that's the description of a christian "to a T."
so let's now talk about YOU. i think YOU are disrespectful for claiming that your beliefs aren't of faith. YOU are disrespectful for trying to falsify scientific logic. that's against the rules. to deny to yourself and to others that physical observations and experiments have not once shifted reality in the direction of your ignorant faith, is true arrogance.
you are a devil worshiping spritualist, not a christian. spiritualism is what you are practicing and it is condemned in the bible. you are deceived and will be deceived by the antichrist.
The bible is spiritual not literal. Do you think that we really drink the blood of Jesus & eat His flesh? or that there is really a physical New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven? Or that we really rapture up into the clouds & Jesus rides clouds like a genie? Jesus said the kingdom of God comes not with observation, nor can anyone say 'here it is!' for the spiritual kingdom of God is within you.
Your Antichrist comment is unbiblical as there is no such thing as some Antichrist guy anywhere!
The word antichrist is in lowercase in the bible as an adjective describing men who DENIED Christ; they were anti, against & in DENIAL of Christ, they were anti Christs. The word appears 5 times in the bible in only 4 verses, 3 of those verses define the word as DENIAL of Christ, it's found in only 2 books (1st & 2nd John) by only 1 author, John
It says "Who's the antichrist but anyone who DENIES the Christ? He's antichrist who DENIES the father & the son" 1 John 2:22 Seek God for truth
@zackrowe1 Am I missing something O knowledgeable One? That weak comment is like a child poking a lion with a stick, then confidently laughing about it ;-)
@tygew Kingdom of Heaven and Kingdom of God are two different things. And yes we will be ruptured up into the clouds with Jesus because 1 Thessalonians 4:16 says so.
@sr1215cl Nope not true. There is no rapture other than our deaths "Thee unknown hour" when Jesus comes "as a thief in the night", when we THE DEAD are translated to a resurrected spirit, instantly "in the twinkling of an eye", from a dead flesh body to an invisible resurrected spirit ;-) 1 Thess is speaking of this same death and instantaneous resurrection into the spiritual realm, aka "air". Read it again but in context this time ;-) Death is the subject there, NOT the rapture lie/myth/fable
@tygew MMMM then your going to hate these verses from the Bible. Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
@sr12 Jesus was taken up in a CLOUD of Spirit, the same cloud/Spirit that is God. God is a cloud/spirit/smoke that filled the Holy of Holys. When you die you will be caught up into the same cloud/smoke/SPIRIT, aka the spiritual realm. I don't "hate" the truth, I just (via Gods will) understand it ;-) God/Jesus Himself is the one who taught me the truth, not man. "And then at each persons death they shall see the sign of man coming on the CLOUDS/SPIRITS/ANGELS of heaven" All will die & see Him
@tygew Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
@sr1215cl Death is when Jesus comes, as a thief in the night, at an unknown hour, with the clouds/spirits/angels of heaven. Death is when we THE DEAD are translated/changed/resurrected into the spiritual realm "each in his own order", each at his own death, as clarified in 1Cor15:23. Our bodies die & rot in the ground, but our spirit (the real us) returns to God who gave it (Eccl12:7). Then we're all judged, some to eternal damnation, some to eternal life (Dan12:2). Death is 'the end' in Rev2:10
@tygew This is what the Catholic church wants you to beleive, its not Scripturely based. The reformers didn't beleive this nether did the early protestant church. I urge you to read the scriptures with the guide of the Holy Spirit and not some dream that came to you in the night.
@sr1215cl I'm NOT a Catholic by any means. God/Jesus is the one who taught me all of these truths Himself. You're deceived by some of the most literalistic nut jobs on the planet! The bible is mostly spiritual NOT literal. There is no such thing as the rapture, the end times, the Antichrist guy, the end of the world, the trinity, Jews being Gods chosen any more, nor are we in the last days, & Israel is not Gods promised land or people any more. We Christians are the New Jerusalem/KINGDOM OF GOD
@tygew Sola Scriptura my friend, no nut jobs here. I'm not a member of any church. I'm confused as to why you believe all these things that are anti scripture. And since you say that God/Jesus has taught you these things then what God/Jesus are you talking about cause they can't be the ones spoken in the Holy Scripture. Everything beside the trinity and Israel being Gods promise land is incorrect. How you have over looked the others is beyond me. Please test these spirits in your dreams.
@sr1215cl There is no trinity. God is ONE not three. The Holy Spirit is God (John4:24). Jesus is God/The Holy Spirit manifest in the flesh (Isaiah9:6,John 1:1-14). Jesus is God the Holy Spirit who sits on the throne in Rev 1:7-8 and who is speaking in Rev 2. Test it I did. The Jews were "cut off" at the cross (Rom 11:23). They can only be grafted back in again through Christ; therefore the Jews & the country Israel are NOT Gods chosen any more, us Christians are! Now read Heb 8:8, Rom 9:6-8
Rom 9:6-8 But it is not as though the word of God hath come to nought. (but rather the promise will be fulfilled through "all CHRISTIANS who call on the name of the Lord") For they are not all Israel, that are (born) of Israel: neither, because they are Abraham's seed, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy (CHRISTIAN) seed be called. That is, IT IS NOT THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH that are children of God; BUT THE (Christian) CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE are reckoned for a seed!"
@tygew Please read your Bible and test these spirits. These things whoever they are are speaking against what the scripture says. There are soooo many scriptures to prove that they are lying to you its not even funny.
@tygew 1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
@tygew 1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
@tygew 1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
@tygew 2 Thessalonians 2:1-2 tells us, "Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come."
@tygew 2 Thessalonians 2:1-2 tells us, "Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come."
I could give you more but I think the people that read this get the picture that what you just said is false. The difference between you and me is that I use scripture for the second coming, you don't
@sr1215cl Don't pick & choose translations, go to the Gr & you will find that sinners are the men of lawlessness. They do not get judged till they "sin/fall away" from God till their deaths. Death is the day of the Lord/the day of judgment for the one who dies. To God the day of the Lord is a time-period of judgment of the dead, from the cross, till now, till forever. But to us the day of the Lord is our deaths, which comes as a thief in the night, at an unknown hour, 2 are alive 1 is taken/dies
Heb. 8:12 and no it's not talking about tithes only or sacrifices. It's talking about the whole law all 600+ commands including the 10. Could Jesus have gone into the holy tab. in the temple? No he could not. Why? The answer is in the book of Heb. May I send you the first verse in Gal. and we can bible study. We can start with gal. 1 we can it take it line by line and discuss what was going on and who paul was writing it to and why.
I have seen that the 1843 chart was directed by the hand of the Lord, and that it should not be altered; that the figures were as He wanted them; that His hand was over and hid a mistake in some of the figures, so that none could see it, until His hand was removed.
You had asked me to name only one prophecy that ellen white said that didn't come true. I gave you 3 what were your thoughts on that and how does the old test. tell us if a prophet is from God or a false prophet.
I only saw one point, it was taken out of context and I have no problem with her prophecys and writings. At this point for me it really is a moot point. If you want to continue with this point you might want to share it with somenoe else, pardon.
Can you give me your understanding on a few things? what do you think of clean and unclean foods? Do you think Satan will bear our sins? what exactly do you think happend in 1844? we can start with these.
Unlcean foods will always be unclean. You cannot eat pork and expect to never have any problems. It causes arthritis, fibre-mialcia, cyts, tumors, heart disease..... Satan will use anything thing to cloud judgement and harm us.( Isaiah 66:17)
We know Jesus beared our sins, the scapegoat is symbolic and taken out of context. 1844? What do you mean! Literally that year or biblically.
Pork causes arthritis and tumors? heart disease? are we talking about Bacon or lean pork? You could say Hamburgers and french fries cause heart disease that doesnt make beef and potatoes unclean. The bible clearly states in Romans 14:13 that NO food is unclean. and also in Romans the WEAKER brother eats only vegies. This was because they lack the faith that Christ is all you need. I guess if you think you need to eat clean foods and worship on Sabbath to be saved then Christ is not enough.
As far as the scapegoat and bearing our sins look at the Great Controversy page 658 she states at the end all the sin of the world will be placed on Satan. And don't tell me its taken out of context. I have to book and just read it again. She also says when Christ has finished making the attonmenet for us then the sins of the world will be placed on Satan. Christ Finished making the atonment when he died on the cross and said "IT IS FINISHED". This is repeated in Hebrews.
Sorry I just dont know if you have really read it, you to willing to point fingers. I really wish to use scripture to study. But your heart prefers to argue rather then study. If you used verses in the bible we could enjoy this but you refuse to. For some reason. Anyways take care your in my prayers.
Ok lets start with Gal. I'm going to send you a private message with the entire passage of Gal. 1 we can then talk about what this means, what was Pauls purpose for writting it and take the verse line by line.
As far as 1844 have you read the Great Controversy? Do you know the your church said happened in 1844? Give me your details about what happend and I'm not sure what you mean about I'm not using scripture. Please reread. I have given you verses
"It was seen, also, that while the sin offering pointed to Christ as a sacrifice, and the high priest represented Christ as a mediator, the scapegoat typified Satan, the author of sin, upon whom the sins of the truly penitent will finally be placed. ... Christ will place all these sins upon Satan, ... so Satan, ... will at last suffer the full penalty of sin" (Great Controversy, p. 422, 485, 486).
do you know what the new Test. says about foods and the old food law? I can give you some great verses on that as well and these are the very thing sda and ellen white attempt to enforce.
I am willing but you have to explain how to use skype. You also need to use scripture to back up what you are saying, other wise how can you validate what you are saying. You have not used any verses, any chapters. This leads me to believe you listen to others than actually studying out the scriptures for reasoning.
I was raised Catholic, I studied and searched to be where I am at today. Come on! give me some scripture, lets do this.
then there is no way it could mean years when the bible says a day is like a year to God. That is a diff. word. Let me know what you think about that word study. Also,please tell me you dont think Christ is the Archangel Michael?
numbers 14:34 God told Moses he will wander the desert for 40 days, each day for a year.
Arch Angel ( Chief Messanger) Ezekiel only mentions Cherubs having wings, you have the wrong picture in your mind. It is obvious that Jesus was the chief messenger.
Check new Vine Dictionary for Heb. and greek, that will help.
So are you saying you do think that or not? In Jude when Michael is fighting over the body of Moses with Satan he says "the Lord rebuke you" why would he say that if he is the Lord. In Hebrews 1:13 it clearly states that he is NOT an angel "until which of the angels said he at any time" and in Revelations he battles with Satan Christ doesn't have to battle. He comes with the Word after Michael battles with him.
There is much more than Just saying everyone that worships on Sunday is damned that I have a problem with. Ellen white is not a prophet. Look at Dan. 2300 days. Please I beg of you to do a word study on that prophecy in Greek and Heb. Days should read MORNINGS AND NIGHTS not days. it was translated that way by the writer of King James Version. That alone would throw the entire SDA doctrine out the window because they think its 2300 years because is says Days. if you know is mornings and nights
Lol :XD Very funny , about the cemetery
ana2722 4 months ago
Powerful as always! Praise God for you pastor Doug!!!
nadinekroberts 6 months ago
I was raised to believe that you went to heaven when you died but I have since learned different. What the SDA's teach makes so much more sense to me and has bible verses to back it up. I have a question that I have never heard brought up. My question is to people who believe that you go to heaven when you die. Why would our loving God want his children up there with him looking down on their loved ones suffering in this sinful world? And also why do the old tombstones say R.I.P.?
harleyhoggers 9 months ago
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Christ became what He was not, so I could become what I am not
He was treated as I deserve so I can be treated as He deserves
In my place He stood sealed me with His blood
Barabbas, ur 2nd name & mine, condemned to death, a very bad man Nothing he could do & Jesus takes his place. Friends we are Barabbas, Jesus has taken our place
He was flogged & by His stripes our wounds would be healed
He was condemned so we could be justified
He was striped so we could be clothed
What a savior!
game11221 9 months ago
Lets start with the second coming cause that's my favorite. "For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the AIR. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18. So I have that covered. Next one.
sr1215cl 1 year ago
@sr1215cl Actually let me explain this verse. You see there is a clear distinction between two groups of humans, There is a dead group that is risen from the graves/ground/water and then there is a group that is still alive. The dead rise first then we that are still alive will be caught up with them in the air to be with Jesus Christ. This is not a all die and then go to heaven. This is literal and not spiritual verse. Every eye will see him including the evil that are still alive on earth.
sr1215cl 1 year ago
i WANT TO SEE THIS DUDE DEBATE THESE THINGS WITH SOMEONE
TheGin151 1 year ago
@TheGin151 Oh dude he'd win cause he would use tons of scripture and they would use one or non to back up their claims. This guy like really really knows his Bible. I need to study my Bible more.
sr1215cl 1 year ago
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No man is justified by the law in the sight of God, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us. Faith Alone, Grace Alone, Christ Alone.
tickmann 1 year ago 2
The Bible truth on the state of the dead is so clear and Pastor Bachelor does a wonderful job of bringing them to light.
459triple3 1 year ago
thank you..I often have a problem with Christians wanting to go out on the sabbath..
Jackie2383 1 year ago
why can,t people grasp the truth of the bible,and instead they turn to fables? life or death is the two choices.
timsh6 1 year ago
That is so clear!!! is in the bible!!!
what he is saying is true, because is in the bible so clear..!
frenolito 2 years ago
What is so clear?
tygew 2 years ago
@tygew I think that what 459tripe3 is getting at is the Bible is crystal-clear on the state of the dead. Specifically, Ecclesiastes does a good job of summing it up in chapter 9 vs 4-6: a living dog is better than a dead lion...the living know they will die, but the dead know NOTHING...their love, hatred, envy, etc perishes with them. They aren't floating around as ghosts or spirit-bodies, they are resting and waiting for the resurrection of the righteous and of the wicked.
MentorOfMinos 1 year ago
@MentorOfMinos The dead rose at the cross, the thief did too, and he was in heaven "that day". The dead slept in graves till Jesus. Behold I tell you a mystery, at our deaths we shall not sleep, but rather we'll be changed to a resurrected spirit, instantly "in the twinkling of an eye". Then we'll see the spiritual realm, Jesus and clouds of spirits/angels.
The bible is not literal, it's spiritual and the 7DA are very very very lost in this.
tygew 1 year ago 4
@tygew read Ecclesiastes 9:5 and 1Corinthians 15:12-22. Your comment about in death we shall not sleep, well look at verse 18 " then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished". Perish: to become destroyed or ruined : cease to exist-Marriam Webster dictionary. You have no scripture to back you claims, not one but this pastor has tons of verses. Did you even watch the video?
sr1215cl 1 year ago
@tygew You misquoted 1 Corinthians 15:51. Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not ALL sleep, but we shall all be changed." Taking out "all" puts that verse in a whole new context which will in turn misleads people to believe that we'll never fall asleep but go straight to heaven. I'd question the church and or teachers , assuming that you do attend one, teachings because its not scriptural at all.
sr1215cl 1 year ago
@sr1215cl 1 Cor 15:51 in the Gr says that "you all" (as in "all you Christians") not sleep all will be transformed: ἰδοὺ μυστήριον ὑμῖν λέγω· πάντες οὐ κοιμηθησόμεθα, πάντες δὲ ἀλλαγησόμεθα.
We CHRISTIANS will not all sleep at our deaths, but rather we shall be changed to a resurrected spirit, instantly "in the twinkling of an eye". before the cross they slept in graves. But now I share a mystery: "We no longer sleep in graves AFTER CHRIST, but rather we're changed to a spirit, instantly.
tygew 1 year ago
@tygew Did you even read verse 52 cause it gives the time when we all will be changed or transformed. IT says and this is the greek translation, "we shall be changed, in uncut (time), in twinkling of eye, AT THE LAST TRUMPET; it will trumpet for , and the dead(ones) will be raised up incorruptible..." Question when will the "last trumpet sound", Answer when Jesus returns to earth (second coming). This idea of going to God as soon as you die was derived from purgatory.
sr1215cl 1 year ago
@sr1215cl There is no such thing as PURGE-atory. When people died BEFORE Jesus they slept in graves. But after the cross people no longer sleep in graves. Read Dan 12:2, Rev 1:5 and Matthew 27:52-53 to see the light. We no longer sleep in graves, but rather we the dead will resurrect instantly 'in the twinkling of an eye' -- for the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed to a resurrected spirit'
tygew 1 year ago
@tygew So I looked up those verses you gave me and still its doesn't support you idea that see don't sleep but are changed as soon as we die. Please read the verses in Daniel 12:1-3 cause its talking about the very end of earth history, the time of trouble as talked in verse 1. When reading the Bible its very important to read the verses before and after, this way you'll know what its talking about. As for Revelations 1:5 I'm not sure how this supports anything that we're talking about.
sr1215cl 1 year ago
Dan12:1-3 was fulfilled at the cross, "at that time", when the people were delivered. God showed me these things, these are not of me they are of Him. I use to believe the lies that you believe till God Himself taught me the truth, that all was fulfilled at the cross. The only event to come is our deaths "the unknown hour, when Jesus comes as a thief in the night, when two are alive 1 dies & the other remains alive. Death is "the end" spoken of. There is no end of the world, its "end of the age"
tygew 1 year ago
P.S. Revelation 1:5 "Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead" Jesus was the first to rise from the dead (1Cor15:20-26), then those who slept rose, then everyone else who has ever died since that day has been translated instantly "in the twinkling of an eye" from a dead body to a resurrected spirit; and we too shall rise instantly at our deaths: "we shall not sleep but rather we (at our deaths) shall be changed instantly (to a resurrected spirit). Death is "the end"
tygew 1 year ago
@tygew actually Laserus was the first to raise from the dead not Christ.
sr1215cl 1 year ago
@sr1215cl ...but Jesus is the resurrection, that's why he said 'Lazarus rise' to prove just that point. Read the whole chapter and you will see that it's true that Jesus is the beginning of the resurrection of the dead; which is the beginning of "the day of the Lord", a time-period of judgment of the dead -- from the cross, till now, till whenever. There is no end of the world, it's "the end of the age', the end of our lives on earth. Death is when we are judged, at our own 'day of the Lord'.
tygew 1 year ago
@tygew Now I know where you are coming from. Remember God does not contradict Himself whatsoever. In a sense you're right about the world not ending, but read 2 peter 3:10. Maybe I'm just reading you comments wrong. How the world ends and what really happens at the end doesn't really matter, what does matter is how we are saved and how to keep trusting Him no matter what comes our way. I prey that we will meet in heaven some day and laugh about all of this, it'll be meaningless. May God save us.
sr1215cl 1 year ago
2Pet3:1-10 is about our deaths: "the end" of the physical realm, the unknown hour, when we resurrect instantly "each in his own order" as a resurrected spirit. Jesus is the resurrection of the dead. We do not sleep in graves any more, but rather at our deaths we rise instantly, "each in his own order" as a resurrected spirit. Our death is our own day of the lord, which comes as a thief in the night. To God the day of the Lord is a time period from the cross till now. But to us it's our own death
tygew 1 year ago
@tygew And Matthew 27:52-53 still doesn't support your idea. Question, if we are already there then what is the whole Second coming of Christ even for? IF that is so then it sounds like Jesus is making two trips for the same person which doesn't make sense to me assuming that they(the dead one) are already in heaven. Do you believe in the Second coming of Christ or not and if so do you believe hes coming for the living and/or the dead? Our belief has to be supported only by scripture.
sr1215cl 1 year ago
Mat 27:52-53 says that the dead (who were SLEEPING in graves) woke & appeared to many. This "resurrection of the dead" happened AFTER Jesus died: First Jesus rose from the dead, then the dead woke, then those who died after the cross have all already risen "each in his own order" (1Cor 15:23) each at his own death. Our deaths are "the end" of this world, the end of the age, the end of the physical realm, but ONLY for the one who dies: "2 are alive, 1 dies, the other remains alive" = our deaths.
tygew 1 year ago
@tygew when people died prior to jesus IF they werent hell bound they awaited in abraham's bosom because the only way to enter the kingdom was thru christ most will not enter the kingdom, scripturally ignorant without excuse lacking luv 4 truth..God isnt within any church anywhere today only worldly passions most have the beasts mark ..i know u do by yer comment..fear isnt just a motivator but the beginning of..huh? all "christians" sin daily thought word deed blink of an eye, very soon
dubvishun 1 year ago
@dubvishun Nope you're confused. People slept in graves till Jesus; some rose to eternal life, some to eternal; darkness Dan12:2 "many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.. Then Ezekiel 37:13 & Mat 25:46 were fulfilled with Jesus death: Matt 27:52 "the tombs were opened; and many bodies of the saints that had fallen asleep were raised". Test it and see the light. may God/Jesus open your eyes to His view..
tygew 1 year ago
@tygew Purgatory was made up by the Catholic church at a time when it was in debt. A person would pay money to the church to get their loved ones out of purgatory and in so get a document claiming that the transfer was done. It was a evil scam that worked and now its been blown out of proportion. Now you know where your belief came from, not from the Bible but from man. Don't take my word for it do your own history homework.
sr1215cl 1 year ago
@sr1215cl I don't believe in the UNBIBLICAL teaching of purgatory. This is the ONLY truth: We live, we die at an unknown hour, then we instantly stand before God. Any church view or teaching that contradicts what I just said is false and of Satan. We live (either for God or for ourselves), then we die (at an unknown hour), then we instantly resurrect as a resurrected spirit & stand before God, then we're judged to either eternal life, or eternal darkness. Period! That is thee ONLY truth.
tygew 1 year ago
@tygew I am not an sda but you are not right, if you read the text it says that MANY of the saints giving a significat amount in numbers, but not indicating a fullness, Jesus himslef said "I Go so that I may COME BACK AGAIN and gather you to myself so that WHERE I AM YOU MAY BE ALSO. Jesus did not indicate that when we die we are with him but indicated when he comes back we are with him
Friendoflord 11 months ago
@FrofLrd Jesus is a spirit, called 'cloud'. He left in a cloud & his {presence/parousia/coming} is as an UNSEEN cloud/spirit. You will not see Jesus till the day you die. When Jesus comes & gathers you to Himself it will be the day you die. Where He is IN THE UNSEEN SPIRITUAL REALM you can not go till the day you die. Your death is "the end" WHEN your kingdom/spirit is gathered to God, as clarified in 1 Cor 15:20-26 Read it then get back to me. The end in v24 is our deaths, as clarified in v26
tygew 11 months ago
@tygew Jesus is much more than spirit. His ressurection was a bodily ressurection. And we will be raised 1 thess 4. Our deaths are just temporary until he does return. The bible is not a "spiritualized book" there are parts that are literal, parts that are not. the hebrew people were an idiomatic people and at times it is hard to seperate them becuase of our lack of knowledge of thier culture. I will not pretend to know all the specifics, but I will say that in the end as long as we are.....
Friendoflord 11 months ago
@tygew living our lives according to the way it is outlined in scripture, to believe, and live by his commands living a holy seperate life not conformed to the world. it doesn't matter our goal is set before us. we can debate little things but to no avail, what is important is the death burial, ressurection, to faith and a tranformed life
Friendoflord 11 months ago
@FrdOfLrd God/Jesus is the one who showed me these truths. They are not of me they are of Him. What I have shared with you is truth from God. Let Him be the judge and strike me dead if I have lied to you. Amen.
We do not sleep in graves till some future judgment day. At each of our deaths we resurrect "each in his own order" as a spirit, instantly in the twinkling of an eye. Death is "the end" mentioned in 1Cor15:20-26 & in Rev 2:26. Test it I did.
tygew 11 months ago
@tygew Not to be condemning but this should be a red flag. God does not anylonger give "divine inspiriation" uncovering a new truth. I certianly am not saying he does not speak to us, but he does not reveal any new meaning.
Friendoflord 11 months ago
@FrndOfLrd It's not a new teaching, it's the real & ONLY teaching taught by God/Jesus the Holy Spirit. The teachings that you adhere to are those of men & not of God. Jesus will never RETURN as you believe. His return/parousia has been here as unseen Spirit since the day He died. Yes he came back as flesh, but He's God the Holy Spirit speaking to the churches in Rev 2. he's unseen spirit "Where 2 or more are gathered there He is in the midst" as unseen Spirit. His presence is omnipresent Spirit
tygew 11 months ago
cont: The days will come when you'll desire to SEE one of the days of Jesus, BUT YOU WON'T SEE IT". His presence is as the flash of light from lightening that shines from the east even unto the west -- everywhere at once, so if anyone says 'Here he is' don't believe them. Jesus is unseen Spirit - as the one God, as the one unseen Holy Spirit. I the LORD your God am ONE! as one Holy Spirit who is God/Jesus.
tygew 11 months ago
God/Jesus is the one who taught me that He is one God, as the Holy Spirit. I asked God if He was Jesus or not, that I didn't know how to find it in scripture & if He would just open my bible to it. So I picked up my bible & tried to open it to about a third of the way in (to about Kings or so), but instead it opened to the book of John. I then read v1-8 saying "So!" But He said "READ ON!" then I read to v14 & smiled "The word (YHWH God) became flesh ;-) Now I never doubt God!
tygew 11 months ago
@tygew I don't hold to a view on the subject either way, it is not imporant part of doctrine to run the race. Death burial ressurection, the covenant and living in that covenant is whats important. Sadly The devil gets everyone wrapped up in this other stuff to take focus off of the Messiah, and that covenant. Sadly we have seperatated over some of these issues which will have its day in court as well
Friendoflord 11 months ago
@FrndOfLrd That was a pretty weak reply for someone who came at me claiming that I wasn't telling the truth. Now you back out saying salvation & living for God is the real subject. True but not in this conversation here. This conversation (for e few years now!) has been about ALL OF THE LIES TAUGHT ON THIS VIDEO. This man speaking in the vid is a SPIRITUALLY BLIND, false teacher. The bible is NOT literal, it's spiritual. There is no literal New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven. We're the NJ!
tygew 11 months ago
@tygew No I do not think your interretation is in any form truth. I was not backing out. You want to spiritualize it fine your perogative. Through out that is not the case. our hope is in the ressurection it is not spiritual in any form. The arument between sadusee and paharasee was in fact the pharasees believed in a ressurection the sads did not. thus is the case here. I believe in a literal ressurection. The inbetween is of no conceuence.....
Friendoflord 11 months ago
@tygew and I do not hold to a view on the inbetween. I do hold a view on the ressurection to be again literal, and physical. we could argue all day night week, and month and that will not change we will find ourselves in the same delimma as the sadusees and the pharasee, disagreement.
Friendoflord 11 months ago
the bottom line of the whole subject is that there are things that we can diagree on, and there are things we cannot. Christs person, death, ressurection, our obedience to him, are the key focus. the rest is not other than the fact that as believers our hope is in the end we will be with him. How that is? doesn't matter.
As far as us being the nj i do not hold to replacment theology.
Friendoflord 11 months ago
@FOL You're lost in every aspect there. Jesus addressed that argument saying that He IS the God of THE LIVING! & NOT of the dead, for all live unto Him: Mrk12:27He is not the God of the dead, but of the living: ye do greatly err”. Mat22:32‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’ ? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.” Luke 20:38Now he is not the God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him. Thief went to heaven that day. Peter saw Moses & Elijah
tygew 11 months ago
cont. 1Cor15 is ONLY speaking of us literally dying & literally resurrecting as a spirit (1Cor15:12). Our flesh bodies NEVER raise from the dead(1Cor15:50)! Our bodies rot in the ground as the spirit returns to God who gave it (Ec12:7). Flesh & blood do not EVER become everlasting spirit (1Cor15:44). We are born flesh, we're resurrected as a spirit, but only AFTER the flesh dies: 1Cor15:35-36 How foolish! What you sow (dead flesh) does not come to life (does not resurrect) UNLESS IT DIES!
tygew 11 months ago
cont We don't all resurrect at once, we all resurrect "each in his own order", meaning each at his own death (1Cor:15:23). We do not sleep in graves till some future judgment day, but rather we all resurrect, each at his own death, called "the end" in v24, & called "death" in v26. The bible was written to give us TRUTH not opinions! It doesn't contradict, man does! I'll show you! The JKV says at "the end" of the world 1 is taken 1 is left. How if there's no world to be left on? "The end" = death
tygew 11 months ago
cont It's not called "the end of the world", it's called "the end of the age". That age, or time-period, is the end of our time on earth; it's "the end of the age, the end of your time, the end of your life on earth. At "the end" Jesus comes as a cloud/spirit with all the other cloud/spirit/angel/eagles. That's why when they asked "When shall all these things be?" Jesus said "Where the dead body is there the eagles/angels shall gather", ya, gather our spirit up to God at each mans death/the end
tygew 11 months ago
@tygew so basically you are supporting what Satan said: "Thou shalt not surely die." The devil said to Eve that there would be no death. This belief that souls go up to heaven when the person dies is backing up the enemy's claims. Like people have said, the Bible is truth! And regarding that verse where Jesus tells the thief he will be in heaven, in the original translation there was no comma. The comma was added until later. So it reads like this, "I tell you today you..." ran out of characters
yovazquez 9 months ago
@tygew so basically you are supporting what Satan said: "Thou shalt not surely die." The devil said to Eve that there would be no death. This belief that souls go up to heaven when the person dies is backing up the enemy's claims. Like people have said, the Bible is truth! And regarding that verse where Jesus tells the thief he will be in heaven, in the original translation there was no comma. The comma was added until later. So it reads like this, "I tell you today you..." ran out of character
yovazquez 9 months ago
@yovazquez What's all that crass language on your profile? On that note you don't seem fit to even have this discussion. Satan said she would never die, but the wages of sin is death. Before Jesus people slept in graves waiting for Him to pay the price "once and for ALL". So a Christian never really dies anymore, they just pass right on to the spiritual realm. Behold I share with you a mystery, we shall not remain dead, but we shall be resurrected an eternal spirit in the twinkling of an eye ;-)
tygew 9 months ago
@tygew And if everything happens at death, then life as we know it, specifically sin and suffering, also continues forever and the Bible lies by telling us that sin shall be no more and that Satan and sinners shall be as though they never were.
459triple3 8 months ago
@459triple3 You're twisting & misquoting again. It says that at our deaths (called "THE END OF THE AGE") death & pain will be no more. Death can only be "NO MORE" after one has died. Death is "the end" mentioned in 1Cor15:20-26, spec v24. Also in Rev 2:26 & 2 Thess2:2. Our deaths are "the end of the age, when Jesus comes as a thief in the night, at an unknown hour, when 2 are alive 1 is taken 1 is left, Death is what it was like in the days of Noah when they all DIED at an unknown hour.
tygew 8 months ago
@tygew Here we go again. So, according to you, the Bible prophecy in Daniel that speaks of God destroying all false religions and governments and setting up His kingdom on earth is a lie. According to you, Jesus lied when He said that the meek inherit the earth. According to you, the scriptures lie when they say that the wicked will be ashes under the feet of the saints. After all, this twisted theology of yours makes all these things impossible because everything happens at death.
459triple3 8 months ago
@459trple3 The "kingdom" mentioned in Dan & elsewhere, is the unseen spiritual REIGN of God/Jesus within all born again Christians, called "the new Jerusalem". We Christians are the new Jerusalem, as a kingdom of God/Jesus's unseen Spirit within us. We BORN AGAIN Christians are "the bride", the church, the new Jerusalem. There is no literal "kingdom" coming down out of heaven adorned as a bride, because we are that bride, that kingdom made up of the Spirit REIGNING within us. Death is "the end"
tygew 8 months ago
@tygew How could the thief be in heaven with Jesus when Jesus was asleep in the tomb until Sunday morning? I read your story of an encounter with a ghost when you were young. I want to tell you that it was one of Satan's own, a demon not a dead person. You definitely are a truth seeker and God doesn't want you to be deceived by the father of lies. Please listen to Amazing Facts pastor on this topic. God bless you and may He lead you into all understanding.
OL8Twho 6 months ago
@OL8Twho Actually Jesus is YHWH/ the word in the flesh. Jesus was not "sleeping" in a tomb lol. He is God who never sleeps, so he was preaching to the previous dead for those 3 days. God/Jesus can't die lol. He always was, He always is, He always will be! The thief was in heaven with Jesus and the angels. Jesus was also in hell speaking to the dead. He was also everywhere at once as the holy Spirit. he appeared to over 500 brethren at once. Where 2 or more are - there He is as Spirit ;-)
tygew 4 months ago
@tygew Also when the bible was translated there WERE NO COMMAS OR PUNCTUATIONS. The translators decided to put a comma in that place that made it seem like Jesus said today you will be with me in paradise. Switch the comma to the write word and it makes absolute sense and lines up with scripture.
GodzzzSon 4 months ago
@tygew \ The bible teaches that death is a sleep (Job 14:12). We aren't eternal spirits that live on without a body, we definitely die and return to dust. Why would Jesus come and call the dead from their graves if they're already in heaven? Remember, "The living know that they shall die but the dead know not anything" Eccl.9:5 Have another look at this subject. God bless you today.
OL8Twho 4 months ago
@OL8Twho You're quoting the OT to push an old truth. The dead slept till Jesus, true, but after Jesus the dead do not sleep anymore. Jesus IS the resurrection of the dead; behold we don't sleep anymore, but rather we instantaneously resurrect at each persons death "in the twinkling of an eye"; from a dead body to a resurrected spirit. Death is "the end" mentioned in 1Cor15:23 and again in Rev 2:10,26. There is no "end of the world" mentioned in the bible. It's "end of the age", end of our lives.
tygew 4 months ago
@tygew So, dead people are not really dead? They live on without a body? So what you're saying is the same thing the serpent told Eve, 'you won't surely die'. If you want to believe that, go ahead, you won't be the first and you won't be the last one who believes Satans lie of our immortality. Jesus saves and only He is immortal. From dust thou art and to dust you will return.
OL8Twho 4 months ago
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@tygew So, dead people are not really dead? They live on without a body? So what you're saying is the same thing the serpent told Eve, 'you won't surely die'. If you want to believe that, go ahead, you won't be the first and you won't be the last one who believes Satans lie of our immortality. Jesus saves and only He is immortal. From dust thou art and to dust you will return.
OL8Twho 4 months ago
@tygew If what you say is true then there is no need for Jesus to return? I choose to believe this,
Dust of the earth+Breath of life=Living soul Soul = Life, Person, Body, When you are alive you are a
soul. God says you die and the Devil says you don't die.
The bible mentions the soul 1600 times but never once uses the term immortal soul, Only God is immortal. The Bible declares death is a sleep 53 times.
Crazywoodman 4 months ago
@Crazywoodman Let me share with you a "mystery", when you die you "shall not sleep", but rather "you shall be changed" to a resurrected spirit, instantly "in the twinkling of an eye". Death is "the end" mentioned in 1Cor15:20-26 an in Rev2:10,26. Test it :-) Don't use the OT to push an old view/truth. People used to "sleep" in graves. But after Jesus 'we shall not sleep" any more, but rather we shall be changed to a resurrected spirit ;-) Only God is immortal? So are Abraham Moses an Jacob dead?
tygew 3 months ago
@tygew It seems you misquoted 1 Cor 15:51. When Paul says "we shall not all sleep," he is saying that many people will be alive when Jesus returns and shall not be asleep in the grave. It doesn't say "after Jesus we shall not sleep," it says "we shall not all sleep," meaning that when Jesus returns, some will still be alive and shall never taste death.
SoldierOfChrist110 1 month ago
SoldierOfChrist you're wrong. V 51-56 can't contradict the first 50 verses 1Cor15:1-50 says that we die first then become spirit; that flesh does not become spirit; were born flesh then resurrected as a spirit. So v51 is saying that we (THE DEAD) don't remain dead in the grave, but rather we INSTANTLY resurrect in the twinkling of an eye. Who is "we"? The "we" is the dead. Read it again: "THE DEAD shall be raised and WE shall be changed". "We" there is us at our deaths; we're changed to a spirit
tygew 2 weeks ago
continued" Read these verses to see the real light of the chapter, that death is "the end" being spoken of in v24.:
1 Cor 15:1, 15:3-4, 12-14, 16, 20-26, 35-36, 42-45, 50, 46-55
tygew 2 weeks ago
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@Crazywoodman Let me share with you a "mystery", when you die you "shall not sleep", but rather "you shall be changed" to a resurrected spirit, instantly "in the twinkling of an eye". Death is "the end" mentioned in 1Cor15:20-26 an in Rev2:10,26. Test it. Don't use the OT to push an old view/truth. People used to "sleep" in graves. But after Jesus 'we shall not sleep" any more, but rather we shall be changed to a resurrected spirit ;-) Only God is immortal? So are Abraham Moses an Jacob dead?
tygew 3 months ago
@Crazywoodman yes but when jesus ment sleep he ment the body not soul
trees622 2 days ago
@tygew the translators misplaced a comma in that verse. Instead of it saying " And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise." It should have said "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee today, shalt thou be with me in paradise." See the comma being placed differently changes the whole meaning of the verse. Research it if you think i'm lying.
GodzzzSon 5 months ago
@GodzzzSon Actually I do think you're lying and being VERY deceptive! Your theory is nuts and contradicts scripture as a whole; it's a twisted NUTTY way of seeing things. Where in scripture does Jesus speak in this manner: "I say unto you today -- you shall be with me in paradise"? Wrong! it was "I say unto you, Today though shall be with me in paradise". The thief did not "sleep" in a grave till some future judgment day, because 1Cor15:51 says "We shall not sleep" meaning we don't sleep anymore
tygew 4 months ago
@GodzzzSon Actually if you go to biblos dot come you'll notice that Luke 23:43, in the Greek, literally says: " kai (and/even so) ep'o (answer/say/speak) autos (to you) amén (truly/so be it) soi (you) legó (speak/I say) sémeron (today/now) meta (with/in company) emou (me/mine/my) esomai (be/shall be/come to pass) en (in/among) tō (the) paradeisō (park/garden/paradise)." Literally: "And speak to you truth to you I say today with me shall be in paradise" So your denial theory is wrong and a lie.
tygew 4 months ago
@tygew If Jesus took the thief to heaven that very day then how could that have been possible if Jesus died within 6 hours of being on a cross and most men die days after hanging on a cross? Also if Jesus took the thief that day to heaven why did he tell Mary in John 20:17 not to hold Him because He had not ascended up to heaven??? If Jesus had not yet ascended up to heaven yet that Sunday He arose then He couldn't have possibly took the thief that very day (Friday) to heaven.
GodzzzSon 4 months ago
Is Very Clear! Wow! is true
frenolito 2 years ago
so you believe Jesus BROKE the Sabbath?
you do understand that by saying that you are saying jesus was a sinner and that means He cannot be you SPOTLESS Saviour so that would make you lost.
BibleBlunders 2 years ago
Jn 7:23 if a child can be circumcised on the Sabbath so that the law of Moses may not be broken, why are you angry with me for healing the whole man on the Sabbath?
You are like the self righteous pharisees believing that salvation is in the law
Gal 2:16 a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus
Lk 9:22 Jesus will be rejected & killed by the (religious) elders chief priests & teachers of the law
People like you mocked Jesus when He spoke for they lacked understanding
tygew 2 years ago
I'm done telling you guys the truth of scripture. I'm done arguing, insulting & being insulted. God doesn't want any of us arguing or bickering over Him. He says that if we don't have love for each other, then we are just an annoying 'GONG!" that nobody even listens to. If we don't have love then we are nothing. I have argued on here out of anger and I've accomplished nothing because I lacked love. I'm sorry.
For now on please ask God for insight to his words, Jesus is your teacher Mat 23:8-10
tygew 2 years ago
really? you think god says that? that's funny, that's something *i* say. that's something that countless people from all over the world say, every single day, without having ever heard of some fictional character called "god."
god doesn't say anything. people do.
xgotarox 2 years ago
I've seen the spiritual realm 1st hand with 5 witnesses who all fell to the floor screaming & crying as I ran my hand through the spirit in denial of what I was looking at, till it physically turned & looked me in my eyes! You can NEVER tell me that God isn't real! You are the blind man claiming that light does not exist. You obviously know nothing of truth, the spiritual realm or God. And God does speak in the hearts/minds of man, you have to listen, it's a voice of peace beyond your knowledge
tygew 2 years ago
why don't you elaborate on your story? if it's as true as you say, then you should be able to talk about it with complete confidence.
i have been friends with a preacher's son who had a similar story. his first telling of the story actually was believable, but when i asked questions, things started to break down.
as a man of science, an event as you described, were it as true as you claim, would obviously be proof of a god. please, go on, in a private message if you feel more comfortable.
xgotarox 2 years ago
Thanks for being honest and kind. I have elaborated on this story on one of my Myspace blogs a few years ago. You can find my page with my name Tyge Wellman. The blog is called "I called up a Ghost when I was twelve"
tygew 2 years ago
I'll copy my account of what happened and sent it to you here privately; and I'll sent it to anyone else here that wants a copy. It's called
"I called up demons once when I was twelve to prove they dont exist "
tygew 2 years ago
i appreciate it. be prepared to fight an uphill battle, especially if you haven't seen demons since then (assuming you are 38 now), and even more-so if there is room for a church leader to have orchestrated it.
from my friend's story, it seems church leaders have no problem lying to and scaring/traumatizing children (especially family members) in order to achieve their goal of creating believers. it is sad and disgraceful behavior.
xgotarox 2 years ago
I don't even know what to say to that. I don't go to church other than to speak or teach the truth. I can't just sit there an hear mans lies and unbiblical myths. I believe you about the millions of false preachers out there. God warns us of these men many times; even referring to them as godless men, bereft of the truth who think that godliness is a means to financial gain. 1 Timothy 6:3-5. These godless men will do anything to steal 10% from the fools who don't read the bible for themselves
tygew 2 years ago
1 Tim 6:3-6
If anyone teaches false doctrines (rapture etc) & doesn't agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ & to godly teaching, he is conceited & understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies & quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions & constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth & WHO THINK THAT GODLINESS IS A MEANS TO FINANCIAL GAIN. But godliness with contentment is great gain
tygew 2 years ago
you have done yourself a great disservice by reading the bible's text with such enthusiasm as many times as you surely have. it's disturbing how delusional you are, and how many people you may have convinced to believe your delusions in the wake of your little crusade.
it brings me great sadness that i can do nothing to protect the world's impressionable children from misinformation and indoctrination, that perpetuates this ridiculous cycle that create victims like yourself.
xgotarox 2 years ago
I'm not a victim kid. I didn't grow up in the church. I lived a very wild & fun godless life while running from the truth. I did acting, modeling, I was a stripper for years working with Chippendale's, LaBare, Olympic Gardens in Vegas, I did road shows & choreographed a show for the Playboy channel in Vegas. Iv'e met more beautiful woman than you can imagine, done drugs, partied everything. Till 1 empty day I said "God show me real again & I will serve you" I felt a warm oil pour down my body
tygew 2 years ago
cont
Since then I went to something I didn't believe in; It was a prophesy class where God speaks through people. I said "God if this is of you then you have to blow me away" I wound up having 15 people lined up in front of me telling me things that only I knew, private prayers etc. I was on a bus leaving TX, no job, no money, no family, no car, NOTHING! So what truth could they possibly say to me a stranger? They spoke truth from the Spirit of God, it was God speaking to me through 15 people
tygew 2 years ago
given your current story, the seeds were planted when you were younger. you ran from them, denied god (i assume you mean you were agnostic, as i doubt you were ever atheist), lived the life you wanted to live and had fun. i guess you came to a point where you realized things weren't where you wanted them to be, felt you were missing something, maybe became desperate, and took a desperate measure.
did you deny seeing that demon your whole life, too? that's a key piece of information.
xgotarox 2 years ago
No goofball I couldn't have been agnostic since I knew beyond the shadow of a doubt that the spiritual realm was real, therefore I couldn't deny it. What I ran from was the distention & disrespect I got from teachers, adults and other people like you who live with their scared heads in a dark hole of denial
I was 12, all I could do was tell the truth. I found out real quick that we are NOT 1 nation under God, but rather 1 scared nation under lies/opinions & denial of the real truth: God is REAL
tygew 2 years ago
all 12 year olds can do is tell the truth?! HAHAHA.. not even close!
it's funny you use the term "scared," seeing as you live your life in fear of a fantasy. christians are the definition of a paranoid, delusional schizophrenic, to the LETTER. but they have enough influence in even the world of science to establish a catch phrase that excludes religion. what a sham..
xgotarox 2 years ago
You obviously 'think' you're smart. Then consider this, It's very generous to say that mankind knows 0.000000001% of all there is to know; and it's even more generous to say that you only know 0.000000001% of all that mankind knows
So even you have to admit that God exists in the 99.99999999999999999999999999% that you don't know. I have shared with you truth yet you deny it because it doesn't conform to your vast 0.0000000000000000000% of insight that you already have God is real & alive kid
tygew 2 years ago
woah, i missed a lot. you shouldn't reply to your own comments. it's easy to miss those.
what kinds of things did these 15 people tell you that only you knew? since i live in reality and know there is no god, i can say with confidence that it's a load of crap and that you were fooled.
your logic is flawed and humorously skewed by religious thought patterns. you can't quantify "everything there is to know." that would be an infinite number, because you can know things about knowing things.
xgotarox 2 years ago
in fact, the only reason you would ever even THINK about something so ridiculous is because you have a delusional belief that some entity really DOES know everything.
what we DO know is what can be observed. through observations, we have established natural patterns and the ability to explain our world. your archaic belief disregards these laws and observations entirely, completely rejecting the scientific method.
it turns out how much we know of "everything there is to know" is irrelevant.
xgotarox 2 years ago
shhhhh...... I'm done trying to reach you. I'm dusting the dirt off my shoes.
Luke 9:5
And as many as receive you not, when ye depart from that city, shake off the dust from your feet for a testimony against them
Luke 10:1-12
I say unto you, it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city
Mark 6:11
And whatsoever place shall not receive you & they hear you not, as ye go forth thence, shake off the dust that is under your feet for a testimony unto them
I'm done with you
tygew 2 years ago
wooow. you mean the bible predicts that there are people who won't believe you? it must be real! the prophecies in it come true!
your refusal to admit the 15 things that convinced you a god was speaking through these people is an obvious display of doubt. i hope you will someday break free from the restrictive spell of religion and learn that the exploration of, NOT the denial of, doubt is the only path to real truth.
xgotarox 2 years ago
Actually I did tell you the truth, but YOU are the one in doubt; I know the truth, you're the one in the dark here asking me for proof. And yes the bible mentions you many times: "the morally corrupt have set in their heart that there is no God" "Anyone who denies Jesus as the Christ & God as the Father is antichrist" etc etc
There is not enough room here to answer all your doubts. But as for my faith in God & the bible is this:
(cont next post)
tygew 2 years ago
1. Age 12 I saw a ghost/demon with 5 witnesses that all saw the same thing. Then, at the same time, my mom received insight from God to pray protection over me. She confronted me about this two hours later when I got home (she never did that before or after that date)
2. Age 23 I went to inspect a church. I wound up having 15 people give prophesies to me of thoughts, prayers & things that only I knew
3. If the bible was written by men it would have glorified man & not predicted Christs birth
tygew 2 years ago
lol. if the bible was written by god, it wouldn't contradict itself. if i had evil intentions and wanted to create a tool to control people, i would create a religion. i would write a holy book and convince people it was the word of a god. i would promise rewards for subscribing to its teachings. i would create passages to control my followers out of fear of punishment. i would convince them that having faith is the only way to stay safe, silencing doubt, logic, and reasoning.
xgotarox 2 years ago
the bible is the perfect tool for mind control.. or was. it isn't anymore, because science has evolved and made discoveries that refute its fairy tale fantasies. but the following became a machine. it convinces people at an age when they are naive enough to believe in fairy tales, seriously retarding the development of the brain's logical ability, and establishing emotional attachment to their beliefs, reducing the chances of their recovery by the time they DO come of age.
xgotarox 2 years ago
My faith is based on personal experiences & very real, undeniable facts. Your faith lies in atheism & lies. I shared the real truth with you yet you deny the real truth because the real truth doesn't conform to your cowardly ideologies
I'm very sorry...you're lost kid. Fighting with & insulting me will never change the truth. The truth is not based off of a book written by men. God exists powerfully outside of the scriptures. Actually it's because of God that I believe the bible so very much
tygew 2 years ago
there's no "faith" involved in atheism.. i might have faith in certain theories, but there's nothing to place faith in when it comes to things not existing.
i don't debate with theists to change them. i debate so that i can better understand their kind. i debate so that skeptic onlookers can be exposed to reality in hopes that they might think for themselves one day.
your demon story was very helpful, but a reply to my response would have been appreciated.
xgotarox 2 years ago
also, if you believe in demons, then i most surely am one, right? or is it that the devil has possessed me? does the devil control me? or have i been tempted by sin?
how WOULD you classify me? i can't imagine that "mere mortals" would take it upon themselves to crusade against the almighty god and his followers.
xgotarox 2 years ago
A 3rd of the corrupt angels/spirits were cast out of heaven for turning against God. Your'e not a demon but you have them & you speak from the heart of your father Satan, he's a liar
God says He already wrote the truth in our hearts. That's why you're seeking the truth. We don't speak of anything new, we just reveal what's already there...truth. And His people hear His voice/truth
It takes a lot more faith to be an atheist than it does to believe God who we know to be true in our hearts/minds
tygew 2 years ago
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tygew 2 years ago
that just will not work. i can't be honest with people in person. i don't have the heart to tell them they're wrong. you can delete that comment. i don't know what's with people giving me their numbers and addresses lately lol..
your statement is absolutely false.. no one has a natural predisposition to believe in religion. don't you think it's odd that NOTHING you present as "proof" goes undisputed? how can not ONE piece of evidence be true, even to scientists?
xgotarox 2 years ago
Everything can be 'proven wrong' if somebody already has their mind made up. God says the morrally corupt have already set it in their heart to deny God, because of their love for sin. If you admit that there is a God, then you have to admit that there is morals and just laws that He established. But because your heart/mind is wicked you deny God
I told you the truth yet you claim I'm lying or something. What more do you want from me?
tygew 2 years ago
lol.. no.. if anything can be disproved, then it's not a fact, period. there are no exceptions.
the bible is so restrictive, that any normal human being is going to desire "sin." in fact, i would be willing to go out on a limb and say that there isn't a human being who can extinguish natural human desires because a book says so.
i'm pretty sure i've already told you what i want from you and why i'm debating..
xgotarox 2 years ago
You're ignorant, rude, cocky, arrogant, self centered and very lost. I already told you everything. As far as what all 15 people said to me, it was personal things about me, my thoughts, prayers etc that were revealed to me by God through them. I also received prophesies that came true. There is not enough room to answer you here, nor do I want to waist my time writing you anymore. You're not looking for TRUTH, but rather to convince the world of your own deception. Your blind, rude and lost
tygew 2 years ago
what's rude is a complete disregard for science and logic. THAT'S rude.
is it rude to try to reach paranoid delusional schizophrenics? is it rude to try to help them find their way back to reality? or do you think it's acceptable to let them live their delusional lives? if you do, it's because you can relate to them.
"you're not looking for truth, but rather to convince the world of your own deception." haha.. give me a break, dude. that's the description of a christian "to a T."
xgotarox 2 years ago
so let's now talk about YOU. i think YOU are disrespectful for claiming that your beliefs aren't of faith. YOU are disrespectful for trying to falsify scientific logic. that's against the rules. to deny to yourself and to others that physical observations and experiments have not once shifted reality in the direction of your ignorant faith, is true arrogance.
xgotarox 2 years ago
you are a devil worshiping spritualist, not a christian. spiritualism is what you are practicing and it is condemned in the bible. you are deceived and will be deceived by the antichrist.
BibleBlunders 2 years ago
The bible is spiritual not literal. Do you think that we really drink the blood of Jesus & eat His flesh? or that there is really a physical New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven? Or that we really rapture up into the clouds & Jesus rides clouds like a genie? Jesus said the kingdom of God comes not with observation, nor can anyone say 'here it is!' for the spiritual kingdom of God is within you.
Your Antichrist comment is unbiblical as there is no such thing as some Antichrist guy anywhere!
tygew 2 years ago
cont
The word antichrist is in lowercase in the bible as an adjective describing men who DENIED Christ; they were anti, against & in DENIAL of Christ, they were anti Christs. The word appears 5 times in the bible in only 4 verses, 3 of those verses define the word as DENIAL of Christ, it's found in only 2 books (1st & 2nd John) by only 1 author, John
It says "Who's the antichrist but anyone who DENIES the Christ? He's antichrist who DENIES the father & the son" 1 John 2:22 Seek God for truth
tygew 2 years ago
@tygew better read bible more
zackrowe1 1 year ago
@zackrowe1 Am I missing something O knowledgeable One? That weak comment is like a child poking a lion with a stick, then confidently laughing about it ;-)
tygew 1 year ago
@tygew Kingdom of Heaven and Kingdom of God are two different things. And yes we will be ruptured up into the clouds with Jesus because 1 Thessalonians 4:16 says so.
sr1215cl 1 year ago
@sr1215cl Nope not true. There is no rapture other than our deaths "Thee unknown hour" when Jesus comes "as a thief in the night", when we THE DEAD are translated to a resurrected spirit, instantly "in the twinkling of an eye", from a dead flesh body to an invisible resurrected spirit ;-) 1 Thess is speaking of this same death and instantaneous resurrection into the spiritual realm, aka "air". Read it again but in context this time ;-) Death is the subject there, NOT the rapture lie/myth/fable
tygew 1 year ago
@tygew MMMM then your going to hate these verses from the Bible. Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
sr1215cl 1 year ago
@sr12 Jesus was taken up in a CLOUD of Spirit, the same cloud/Spirit that is God. God is a cloud/spirit/smoke that filled the Holy of Holys. When you die you will be caught up into the same cloud/smoke/SPIRIT, aka the spiritual realm. I don't "hate" the truth, I just (via Gods will) understand it ;-) God/Jesus Himself is the one who taught me the truth, not man. "And then at each persons death they shall see the sign of man coming on the CLOUDS/SPIRITS/ANGELS of heaven" All will die & see Him
tygew 1 year ago
@tygew Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
sr1215cl 1 year ago
@sr1215cl Death is when Jesus comes, as a thief in the night, at an unknown hour, with the clouds/spirits/angels of heaven. Death is when we THE DEAD are translated/changed/resurrected into the spiritual realm "each in his own order", each at his own death, as clarified in 1Cor15:23. Our bodies die & rot in the ground, but our spirit (the real us) returns to God who gave it (Eccl12:7). Then we're all judged, some to eternal damnation, some to eternal life (Dan12:2). Death is 'the end' in Rev2:10
tygew 1 year ago
@tygew This is what the Catholic church wants you to beleive, its not Scripturely based. The reformers didn't beleive this nether did the early protestant church. I urge you to read the scriptures with the guide of the Holy Spirit and not some dream that came to you in the night.
sr1215cl 1 year ago
@sr1215cl I'm NOT a Catholic by any means. God/Jesus is the one who taught me all of these truths Himself. You're deceived by some of the most literalistic nut jobs on the planet! The bible is mostly spiritual NOT literal. There is no such thing as the rapture, the end times, the Antichrist guy, the end of the world, the trinity, Jews being Gods chosen any more, nor are we in the last days, & Israel is not Gods promised land or people any more. We Christians are the New Jerusalem/KINGDOM OF GOD
tygew 1 year ago
@tygew Sola Scriptura my friend, no nut jobs here. I'm not a member of any church. I'm confused as to why you believe all these things that are anti scripture. And since you say that God/Jesus has taught you these things then what God/Jesus are you talking about cause they can't be the ones spoken in the Holy Scripture. Everything beside the trinity and Israel being Gods promise land is incorrect. How you have over looked the others is beyond me. Please test these spirits in your dreams.
sr1215cl 1 year ago
@sr1215cl There is no trinity. God is ONE not three. The Holy Spirit is God (John4:24). Jesus is God/The Holy Spirit manifest in the flesh (Isaiah9:6,John 1:1-14). Jesus is God the Holy Spirit who sits on the throne in Rev 1:7-8 and who is speaking in Rev 2. Test it I did. The Jews were "cut off" at the cross (Rom 11:23). They can only be grafted back in again through Christ; therefore the Jews & the country Israel are NOT Gods chosen any more, us Christians are! Now read Heb 8:8, Rom 9:6-8
tygew 1 year ago
continued:
Rom 9:6-8 But it is not as though the word of God hath come to nought. (but rather the promise will be fulfilled through "all CHRISTIANS who call on the name of the Lord") For they are not all Israel, that are (born) of Israel: neither, because they are Abraham's seed, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy (CHRISTIAN) seed be called. That is, IT IS NOT THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH that are children of God; BUT THE (Christian) CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE are reckoned for a seed!"
tygew 1 year ago
@tygew Please read your Bible and test these spirits. These things whoever they are are speaking against what the scripture says. There are soooo many scriptures to prove that they are lying to you its not even funny.
sr1215cl 1 year ago
@sr1215cl Name one.
tygew 1 year ago
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@tygew 1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
sr1215cl 1 year ago
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@tygew 1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
sr1215cl 1 year ago
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@tygew 1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
sr1215cl 1 year ago
@tygew 2 Thessalonians 2:1-2 tells us, "Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come."
sr1215cl 1 year ago
@tygew 2 Thessalonians 2:1-2 tells us, "Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come."
I could give you more but I think the people that read this get the picture that what you just said is false. The difference between you and me is that I use scripture for the second coming, you don't
sr1215cl 1 year ago
@sr1215cl Don't pick & choose translations, go to the Gr & you will find that sinners are the men of lawlessness. They do not get judged till they "sin/fall away" from God till their deaths. Death is the day of the Lord/the day of judgment for the one who dies. To God the day of the Lord is a time-period of judgment of the dead, from the cross, till now, till forever. But to us the day of the Lord is our deaths, which comes as a thief in the night, at an unknown hour, 2 are alive 1 is taken/dies
tygew 1 year ago
Heb. 8:12 and no it's not talking about tithes only or sacrifices. It's talking about the whole law all 600+ commands including the 10. Could Jesus have gone into the holy tab. in the temple? No he could not. Why? The answer is in the book of Heb. May I send you the first verse in Gal. and we can bible study. We can start with gal. 1 we can it take it line by line and discuss what was going on and who paul was writing it to and why.
frank24607 2 years ago
I have seen that the 1843 chart was directed by the hand of the Lord, and that it should not be altered; that the figures were as He wanted them; that His hand was over and hid a mistake in some of the figures, so that none could see it, until His hand was removed.
Ellen Whte Early Writings pg. 74
frank24607 2 years ago
You had asked me to name only one prophecy that ellen white said that didn't come true. I gave you 3 what were your thoughts on that and how does the old test. tell us if a prophet is from God or a false prophet.
frank24607 2 years ago 2
I only saw one point, it was taken out of context and I have no problem with her prophecys and writings. At this point for me it really is a moot point. If you want to continue with this point you might want to share it with somenoe else, pardon.
God-bless
DOFMinister 2 years ago
Can you give me your understanding on a few things? what do you think of clean and unclean foods? Do you think Satan will bear our sins? what exactly do you think happend in 1844? we can start with these.
frank24607 2 years ago
Unlcean foods will always be unclean. You cannot eat pork and expect to never have any problems. It causes arthritis, fibre-mialcia, cyts, tumors, heart disease..... Satan will use anything thing to cloud judgement and harm us.( Isaiah 66:17)
We know Jesus beared our sins, the scapegoat is symbolic and taken out of context. 1844? What do you mean! Literally that year or biblically.
GBY
DOFMinister 2 years ago
Pork causes arthritis and tumors? heart disease? are we talking about Bacon or lean pork? You could say Hamburgers and french fries cause heart disease that doesnt make beef and potatoes unclean. The bible clearly states in Romans 14:13 that NO food is unclean. and also in Romans the WEAKER brother eats only vegies. This was because they lack the faith that Christ is all you need. I guess if you think you need to eat clean foods and worship on Sabbath to be saved then Christ is not enough.
frank24607 2 years ago
any food can be dangerous if eaten in an unsafe way including fish, beef, and chicken. This does not make it unclean.
frank24607 2 years ago
Just keep reading Ellen White my Bro, You'll get it.
And dont read, STUDY.
God-Bless.
DOFMinister 2 years ago
As far as the scapegoat and bearing our sins look at the Great Controversy page 658 she states at the end all the sin of the world will be placed on Satan. And don't tell me its taken out of context. I have to book and just read it again. She also says when Christ has finished making the attonmenet for us then the sins of the world will be placed on Satan. Christ Finished making the atonment when he died on the cross and said "IT IS FINISHED". This is repeated in Hebrews.
frank24607 2 years ago
Sorry I just dont know if you have really read it, you to willing to point fingers. I really wish to use scripture to study. But your heart prefers to argue rather then study. If you used verses in the bible we could enjoy this but you refuse to. For some reason. Anyways take care your in my prayers.
DOFMinister 2 years ago
Ok lets start with Gal. I'm going to send you a private message with the entire passage of Gal. 1 we can then talk about what this means, what was Pauls purpose for writting it and take the verse line by line.
frank24607 2 years ago
As far as 1844 have you read the Great Controversy? Do you know the your church said happened in 1844? Give me your details about what happend and I'm not sure what you mean about I'm not using scripture. Please reread. I have given you verses
frank24607 2 years ago
"It was seen, also, that while the sin offering pointed to Christ as a sacrifice, and the high priest represented Christ as a mediator, the scapegoat typified Satan, the author of sin, upon whom the sins of the truly penitent will finally be placed. ... Christ will place all these sins upon Satan, ... so Satan, ... will at last suffer the full penalty of sin" (Great Controversy, p. 422, 485, 486).
frank24607 2 years ago
do you know what the new Test. says about foods and the old food law? I can give you some great verses on that as well and these are the very thing sda and ellen white attempt to enforce.
frank24607 2 years ago
Give me some script.
DOFMinister 2 years ago
Mat 15, Mark 17, 1 tim 4, Romans 14, col 2:16,
frank24607 2 years ago 3
Listen all i ask is that we do a bible study together. we can even talk via skype if you would like.
frank24607 2 years ago
I am willing but you have to explain how to use skype. You also need to use scripture to back up what you are saying, other wise how can you validate what you are saying. You have not used any verses, any chapters. This leads me to believe you listen to others than actually studying out the scriptures for reasoning.
I was raised Catholic, I studied and searched to be where I am at today. Come on! give me some scripture, lets do this.
With Love, Blessings
DOFMinister 2 years ago
then there is no way it could mean years when the bible says a day is like a year to God. That is a diff. word. Let me know what you think about that word study. Also,please tell me you dont think Christ is the Archangel Michael?
frank24607 2 years ago
numbers 14:34 God told Moses he will wander the desert for 40 days, each day for a year.
Arch Angel ( Chief Messanger) Ezekiel only mentions Cherubs having wings, you have the wrong picture in your mind. It is obvious that Jesus was the chief messenger.
Check new Vine Dictionary for Heb. and greek, that will help.
DOFMinister 2 years ago
So are you saying you do think that or not? In Jude when Michael is fighting over the body of Moses with Satan he says "the Lord rebuke you" why would he say that if he is the Lord. In Hebrews 1:13 it clearly states that he is NOT an angel "until which of the angels said he at any time" and in Revelations he battles with Satan Christ doesn't have to battle. He comes with the Word after Michael battles with him.
frank24607 2 years ago
what is your line of thinking on Numbers 14:34?
frank24607 2 years ago
There is much more than Just saying everyone that worships on Sunday is damned that I have a problem with. Ellen white is not a prophet. Look at Dan. 2300 days. Please I beg of you to do a word study on that prophecy in Greek and Heb. Days should read MORNINGS AND NIGHTS not days. it was translated that way by the writer of King James Version. That alone would throw the entire SDA doctrine out the window because they think its 2300 years because is says Days. if you know is mornings and nights
frank24607 2 years ago