Hmmm, Jesus preaching the gospel to the poor is meant by today's wolves as accepting homosexuals into our churches without having them to understand that "repentance" is a gift,,, even so come Lord Jesus
Christ preached love to the poor. Social justice is in conflict with the Bible by stealing the rich's money and giving it to poor people who don't work hard. Against the Holy Bible and the United States Constitution.
@CoolGuy18201 you have no idea what social justice means ,you idiot stop mouthing conserative b.s. try reading a man named jesus,hes in your bible-matthew is a good book why not read it
"Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” -Matthew 19:21 (Mark 10:21; Luke 14:33 & Mark 12:43-44; Matthew 25:31-46)
f Jesus were to appear today, Christians would be the first to denounce him as a Socialist, a Progressive and an Activist, not a Capitalist or a Conservative.
Jesus sought to change prevailing attitudes, he reached out to the outcasts, the poor and the weak and taught AGAINST religious dogma. Jesus would find Christianity a very strange thing.
It is the Zionists the are the ones who would maccuse him of Socialism, as these people are supportive of the welfare given to the Zionist state of Israel. They actualloy wanted to make the foreign aid to Israel permanent -- even when the US is borrowing fromm Socialist China.
Islam is by NO MEANS a peaceful religion. It has the stated goal of converting the entire world's population to Islam (by force if necessary) and forcing all to live under Shari'a by tyrannical despotic theocratic law.
You have to come up with the "Islam" boggman as a smoke screen to cover up the Zionist strangle hold on the United States. Hope Ron Paul gets elected and we can free Our nation from the Zionist agents who control the political and Economic system. While at it, please pass on to true American patriots about Zionist Israeli stealing American property -- Read: Philip Giraldi's "Stealing Success Tel Aviv Style".
@xephyr1000 Vile, bigoted bullshit. "Taqiyya" means "KKK bullshit to spread hate of Muslims." It is NOT part of Islam to "convert the world by force", "Shari'a" is a made-up bogeyman.
Glenn Beck is a blasphemous disgrace to all believers. Social justice is the ONLY thing Christ preached. It's not the top thing, it's the ONLY thing.
Jim Wallis is a real Christian, Glenn Beck is not.
im in a social justice class & im a atheist social justice is for human rights how could we help people & humanity in the long run its not charity its not the church & its not the government im no expert on social justice but what i know enough to say social justice is caring about people & preserving individualism
There's the Christians that are into the word of Jesus, and there's the Christians that are really just doomsday prophecy followers.. They are two seperate religions that have combined into one over centuries.
Social Justice = Liberal/Progressives perversion of christianity. I'm all for helping the needy but you must remember: Perfect example of charity & what people should do to assist the needy, as this old chineese proverb explains "You can give a man a fish & he will eat for a day, Or you can teach a man how to fish & he he will eat for the rest of his life." There are too many today that have become complacent in receiving charity. They feel entitled. Not what God intended.
[Jesus] proceeded to say also to the man that invited him: “When you spread a dinner or evening meal, do not call your friends or your brothers or your relatives or rich neighbors. Perhaps sometime they might also invite you in return and it would become a repayment to you. But when you spread a feast, invite poor people, crippled, lame, blind; and you will be happy, because they have nothing with which to repay you. For you will be repaid in the resurrection of the righteous ones.”
This is quite frightening. To learn what "the new world order" and "globalization" and "social justice" means, study "United Nations Agenda 21." Everyone should know what this agenda means to their everyday life. It's happening NOW!
God allowed the fall for a reason. This planet is now not only a place where people can be born of God, but also a learning centre for them to grow in love and trust.
But if we eliminate hardship and poverty by institutionally forceful means, such as increased taxation and government programs in place of charitable organisations, we also eliminate the opportunity to choose to give generously and cheerfully; to learn to love man, and trust God.
Either we give voluntarily and people are blessed with a view of God's nature, as on Christmas Day, or we do not give at all, and the omission of God in our lives is not visible as all our lives are levelled with an iron hand regardless of our moral choices and behaviour.
In the place of God, man becomes the benefactor which God elected not to be (in order to allow individuals to choose to fulfill that role). In erasing poverty man also erases the need for God and the need to answer to God.
Worse still, man's forceful method of stealing from the blessed to give to the poor also breeds bribery, corruption, waste and abuse of power. Man never succeeds in his dream of being that mighty benefactor, but becomes a slave and a tyrant instead.
And worst of all, the end result of that kindness is a state worse than the first, because the corruption becomes a snow-ball of loss of productivity and increased need.
America in the 19th century became world famous for freedom and prosperity. They allowed a man to keep his earnings, and they became a generous people.
If you look at Jesus, he always spoke to the individual about giving, and about trusting in God not money. He never spoke to the government.
That all said, it remains true that we need to be active and proactive in good works and compassionate about the needs of others, even those far away. And wise in ensuring that the money is used well.
Social justice can be equated to how social animals live in the wild. Any creature who lives in a community group can live easier knowing theres many others to help him/her and vice versa. However living in a group means one must cooperate with others to survive. This means that one has to put others before themselves. Essentially it's all about give and take.
@NUTCASE71733 Bad example of your twisted belief. You forget that the weak die in herds as they are left behind by the herd for the wolves to fest. Simply a part of nature. The community of almost animal group will cast out or kill those that do not do there share of the work to be done.
@ivlfounder I agree, Many humans are better. Like yourself, U show compasion by your statement. But many are not. They have been lead down the wrong path by evil. We(Good People) must never forget human history, even recent history(Look @ the NAZI's back in the 1930 & 40s. Iran's leader & how he treating his own people). Humans inflict evil upon other humans, daily. All it takes it for good people to say/do nothing, which is as bad as the people commiting the evil deed(s).
Jesus was a Socialist! Spread the wealth and heal the sick with no pay are you kidding? Jesus healed the sick even though they had NO Money! Jesus fed Thousand who had no food! Jesus did not run around capitalizing on ideas like that moron Palin for example!
Sorry, Mr. Lamestream media man, you don't know sqwat about Jesus so quit pretending you read the Bible. Jesus would condemn communism or nazi socialism. Yes, the nazis were socialists who believed in taking from one group to give to another. It is WRONG no matter what your color or economic status. THOU SHALT NOT COVET THY NEIGHBORS GOODS!
@Captainoldspice you are an uneducated moron. Do some research. Where do you think the moniker NAZI comes from? It means National Aryan Socialist International union. Google it or read hitler's book, Mein Kampf. You are a good example of the dumbing down of America.
The Nazi party incorporated the word "socialist" in their name because the ideology had a lot of appeal during the economic slush of 1930s Germany. Nazi Germany's economic policies were pretty well to the right.
@Captainoldspice You don't know what you are talking about. It may be the liberal American incorporated word for right, but by European standards they were socialists which means strict government control over all social aspects of the citizenry.
@childrescuer Nazis were not socialist. Their economic system relied heavily on state-sponsored corporatism, and while they did engage in large amounts of social spending (which for some reason IS socialism to those ignorant of even the most basic ideas in political philosophy), their policies subverted and destroyed the most fundamental tenet of Socialism: Worker control of the means of production.
Social spending does not make for a socialist state, though it is one of the aspects of one.
@Keinlicht It was called the National Socialist German Workers Party, and I din't know what you are trying to spin here, but socialism means the government taking control of all aspects of the social lives of its citizens, eliminating the rights of the individual for the so-called 'greater good' and that means redistributing your property and even children to strengthen society by means of war, indoctrination, persecution or intimidation. How old are you? 12?
@Keinlicht No wonder - look at this loser's channel page. He is a stoner goth with only 3 loser friends and 2 subscribers. He's 30 yrs.old and should know better. I see another Jared Laughner on the loose. With this one.
@childrescuer Great ad hominem there, because obviously I just try so hard to make my channel popular. It really matters to me. It's my identity.
More seriously though you ignore the basic concept of Socialism. You do realize that in the USSR they had a 'Communist worker's party' as well, right? And they were about as far from socialism as the Nazis were.
Take your head out of glenn beck's ass and look around for once, you haven't the faintest idea what you're talking about. Just shut it.
@Keinlicht You little traitor! I've been to the USSR when it was communist when you were just getting your head out your momma's ass! If you don't STFU we will stuff you back up yo mamma!
@poloniawarrior What about my statement amounts to treason? I couldn't give a fuck if you've lived 100 years and been to every socialist country that ever existed. The USSR's system of forced authoritarian collectivism is not nor was ever intended to be Socialism.
The social programs supported by this system were 'socialist' according to modern namenclature, but the essence of socialism was not represented in the United Soviet Socialist Republic. Lenin himself recognized this.
@Keinlicht You are a traitor because you believe the government goons should dictate every aspect of our lives. Russians never thought their socialism would turn into a dictatorship, but it ALWAYS DOES. Every singke socialist country on this earth is now very unhappy with their governments, including Sweden and Canada where I lived for 10 years. You are just a stoner living in daddy's basement who does not want to grow up and be self sufficient.
@childrescuer You don't know anything about what I believe, so don't fucking put words in my mouth. I believe that Government, in service of the people of the country, should and in some cases must institute certain justifiable social programs in an attempt to actively reduce the gap in terms of opportunity between rich and poor. Just because previous attempts at socialism have failed, doesn't mean they always will. You're just a purity ring faggot who's never gotten past fox news "logic".
If we really have a separation of church and state, the government must not be allowed to have a hand in the social justice the church says must occur. Right?
This is what I find so damn funny. During his interview with Wallace, he said that he disagreed with the economic component and the liberation theology of the original march. What his fucking retarded ass fails to realize is that if he disagrees with that.........HE OSTENSIBLY DISAGREES WITH THE ENTIRE MOVEMENT!!!! I swear to God Beck is a lying SOB and anyone who takes what he says as gosper are idiots (his words not mine.)
Redistribution of wealth happens for two reasons: 1. administering charity on a national scale based on individual transactions from someone who can spare money to someone who needs money is impractical. 2. Give people a choice, and the vast majority will choose not to share. In Victorian Britain, charity and philanthropy was the primary mechanism for redistributing wealth. Read Dickens for an example of such a society.
Never did Christ petition the government or Kings to provide for the poor. Christ petitioned people to give of themselves. That is not social justice. Social Justice is taking from one to give to another. More importantly, it is establishing an authority other than you as one who redistributes your weath. It posits Government as a replacement for conscience, for God.
this entire conversation is retarded. Beck didnt walk anything back. O'Donnell and Wallis are completely misrepresenting Beck's argument, which is that government has no part. The man has Faith Hope & Charity all over his studio for Christs sakes.
"For the earth is full, and there is enough and to spare; yea, I prepared all things, and have given unto the children of men to be agents unto themselves. Therefore, if any man shall take of the abundance which I have made, and impart not his portion, according to the law of my gospel, unto the poor and the needy, he shall, with the wicked, lift up his eyes in hell, being in torment." D&C 104:17-18
Oops, looks like Mormonism supports social/economic justice. ;)
@discjockeyfuture Where does it say social/economic justice? It just says give until it hurts, not set up a global communist government with Barrack OBama who isn't the second coming of Christ lol
Jesus does call us to be charitable, and love our neighbor as ourself. Not as a political message but a spiritual attribute. NO MAN OR GOVT. SHOULD FORCE ANY MAN TO BE CHARITABLE OR LOVE THEIR NEIGHBOR!!!!!!!!!!!!! By doing so MAN has removed free will. We all have a choice to participate or not. . I hope we could participate without losing our freedom to CHOOSE.
@dikwiked In this instance, social justice has nothing to do with men or government forcing charitableness, but the spiritual philosophy of church congregations. Beck said to run from "social justice" in churches. What, pray tell, is the problem with churches feeding the poor or housing the homeless? That is NOT socialism because non-government organizations cannot be socialist by definition.
Jesus said "No one comes to the Father except through Me"John14:6 Is that what liberals believe?
Jesus said"Whoever is not with Me, is against me" Luke 11:22 Is that what liberals believe?
Jesus said "Whosoever looks on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." Matthew 5:24 Is that what liberals believe, also?
Jesus said"Who ever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven."
This guy Rev. Jim Wallis quotes Jesus' Words in Luke 4:18 "The Spirit of the Lord in upon Me, because He hath anointed Me to preach the good news of the gospel to the poor..." This man, being a "scholar" of the Bible ought to know that "poor" here means POOR IN SPIRIT. The greek word is "ptochos" = lowly and afflicted, those destitute of eternal riches, NOT those who do not have worldly money!. This is where the line is clearly made in this argument. Think as men think or read it as God thinks.
@08Revelator Just to be clear, I am an atheist.I find it interesting that english speaking people feel the need to re-translate and re-interpret the translations and interpretations.One might think the 'inerrant word of god' would be easier to figure out. If there were a god, you would not know what he 'thinks' any more than I.
Matthew 19:24And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.Don't sound Repub
"the eye of a needle" is the gate that a camel had to fit through before returning to his stable. Anything the camel would have on its back would need to be removed before fitting though the gate.The desire for the things that a wealthy man owns, can prevent him from entering into the kingdom. This is not political, when you hold something higher than God, that thing has to go, period. Seems pretty simple to me, like the Word, until men like you make it mean whatever you want it to.
@08Revelator I realize the Bible is a religious text, and not necessarily political. Scripture has no bearing on my life, except when others try to use it to push their political agenda. Your beef is with your fellow Christians, not me. I almost fell of my chair laughing at "until men like you make it mean whatever you want it to." That's what I am against too. Can you show me anywhere in history (besides Christian apologetics) your usage of "eye of a needle'? LOL, hypocrite.
This "christian" on the video to me is self serving and not taking a stand for what it means to be a Christian at all. I'm just judging him by his fruit as should you do for him and me, for that matter. If you are just as insenced by God's Word being twisted for a political agenda as I am, then why do you insist on pitching such a wedge in our dialog?
And about the "eye of the needle" thing, at this point, as much as it pains my ego to say it, you are right. The eye of a needle has little to no historical significance in the context I used..Looks like I have to go back the drawing board on that one, before I act like I know more than I do.
What I have stated was an opinion, and therefore not appropriate when rightly dividing the Word. Still with that even said, the meaning of the parable does not change. "It is both figuratively and literally impossible for man, weather wealthy or not, to get into the kingdom. But with God all things are possible. His Grace made it possible for me, and I certainly wouldn't want to stand in His way of doing that for you, at some point. Do we at least agree there?
@08Revelator I appreciate your honesty regarding the 'eye of needle' and I apologize for being so rude in calling you a hypocrite. It wasn't necessary to call you that; it should have been enough to point out the hypocrisy. However, I don't agree with your interpretation of the parable. The parable does not say "wealthy or NOT" it clearly states "wealthy". This is not the only reference. What do you make of Matthew 19:21? These verses, I'm afraid, sound more "liberal" than Republican or Tea P.
i think like all scripture, even the one about the eye of a needle, if must be taken in context, and rightly divided. This comes after the rich man who approaches Jesus asks him what must he do to inherit eternal life. He said he had been faithful in all the commandments of the law and asked what did he miss. To which Jesus tells that man that he has to sell all that he has and give to the poor (exactly what is hardest for him to do.
This rich man obeyed the letter of the Law but not the heart of it. This is something Jesus did not stand for. So I don't see where it is appropriate to say that every rich man must sell all that he has and give to the poor. That would be socialism and "social robin hood justice". This is doing it man's way. But God has His Own Way. Every rich man was not this rich man, and did not have this man's heart, whom Jesus was speaking to. He asked what he lacked, and the Jesus told him.
@08Revelator Wow! The logical contortions you are willing to go through to make the Bible fit your personal beliefs are (almost) unbelievable. The definition of parable: a short story that uses familiar events to illustrate a religious or ethical point. So really? Jesus wasn't relating an ethical point to everyone, just this one guy (obeyed 2 letter, not heart)? So you are saying; Jesus tells each individual what they need, and it is not the same for everyone? What's the point of the Bible then?
What I'm saying is that lesson learned by that one rich man in Matthew can, will, and have served many man like him. Although we are all made differently and are at different places in our walks of faith, be it a little, much , or none at all yet, there is nothing new in the overall picture under the sun. We all share common problems and struggles and confusion. What varies is how that person going through those common things receives the voice of Truth when it is spoken to them.
And that is the purpose of a parable. To hide the things of God from the ones who consider themselves wise, and reveal them to the simple, who know they don't know everything. So yes of course I guess that could be "relating an ethical point" But not to everyone. Only those who have simple and humble ears to hear and eyes to see.
@08Revelator We might be getting somewhere here. So, what you are saying is that Jesus was relating an ethical point to his followers (Christians). Correct? Now, what was the point of the parable?
Jesus aimed all of his parables to those who are worthy to receive them, in his eyes. The humble and poor in spirit. Hence the original argument about Luke 4:18. Not the poor in wallet. And to the rich man, rich in the things of this world, Jesus knew that he was poor is the things of God. So he had to become poor in the things of this world, to obtain riches in the Kingdom of God. This is the point of the parable.
@08Revelator How can you be serious? Not rich in the "things of God". You yourself said "obeyed to the letter". The only thing he was lacking was he had too much wealth. What follows is my opinion and summary of our conversation. I respect people, but not necessarily their beliefs. I mean no disrespect when I tell you this; Your religion has damaged your capacity for critical thinking. see part 2
And just for the record, "obeying the letter of the Law" and not the heart of it, is saying that he totally missed the point, as have you. The Word was written for man to know the heart of it. Only then can he be rich in the things of God. You have only picked away at the letter of the Law and of the Words of Christ. You have missed their meaning.
You will not always get such a good shot of this my friend. You shouldn't throw it away as if it were worthless.
@08Revelator In order to find the 'real truth', one cannot start with a conclusion, then look for evidence to support it. Real critical thought comes from inductive reasoning, or using evidence to come to a conclusion, not the other way around. If one is sure of their conclusion, they can make anything fit in with it. That is what you have been doing. see part 3
@cablepanos Until you can divorce your emotional bias towards god from your thought processes in regards to your religion, you will continue to warp logic to fit your 'reality'. I sincerely feel sorry for you. Good luck.
It is clear by your insistence to insult me still, after all I have done for you was offer sincere explanations from my point of view as a Christian, that we are done. I really wish you wouldn't have tried to tare me down at the end there, dude. Weather a person of faith or not, it is safe to say that you never really wanted to hear anything else other than what pleased you, regardless of its validity. So go argue with someone else. The only thing I am sorry for , is wasting my time
Now could this be a common problem in the hearts of rich men, sure. But every person is different, and needs to be taught differently, care for differently, and helped differently. This is why a Christians salvation is such a beautiful thing. It is literally like God knows how we have to be saved, and as long as we do the thing that He asked when we say "Lord what do I lack?" Than the promise is with us as well..
Everyone should learn about United Nations Agenda 21. "Social Justice" and redistribution of wealth sounds cool to American liberals. Wait until they find that their money is not being redistributed in America, but to other countries. Is that really what they want? I don't think so. Remember the blacks waiting in line for their "Obama money?" They really thought redistribution of wealth was coming to them. People on welfare in America are richer than many people in 3rd world countries.
Oh, people of faith, read your Bible and heed the warning. Anything that places the betterment of man over the Father does nothing but damn the souls of millions and give few momentary peace. Social Justice is a very poor copy of God's Justice. They are not synonymous. One is original, and one is counterfeit.
God's justice calls for the Church to preach the Gospel and take care of their neighbors economically, spiritually, and mentally no matter what their station, always preaching the message of Jesus Christ. Social justice only takes care of people's economic and social needs for a time.
"Atheism leads a man to sense, to philosophy, to natural piety, to laws, to reputation: all of which may be guides to an outward moral virtue…I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." (Susan B. Anthony)
As a former Christian, it was a huge revelation to me when I found out there were many, many other ancient texts that were once considered Holy. One question leads to another. You find out about all the translations, the dissent brutally crushed and all the heresies. You start asking who chose which books, and what their motives were, and by what rationale they made the selection. You learn about the various edits that have been made--pretty soon you realize that it's just bullshit.
Beck is right,just about all of Obama's cabinet and cronies have communist leanings and Jesus never taught people to take from the rich and give to the poor,Jesus appealed to us to do what is right for the less fortunate i.e.widows and orphans,Paul even made it clearer,if someone who can doesn't work,they don't eat.Jim Wallace is ecumenical and believes all sin is normal and that it's un-Christian to call sin sin and God forbid ever telling anyone that SIN is Real and WILL SEND YOU TO HELL!
The fact that incredulity, skepticism, doubt, and a demand for proof is one of the unpardonable sins, and belief without these things is one of the greatest virtues is the thing that makes me MOST suspicious of religion.
Rational logic is the way to go. atheism will naturally follow.
lol....as if Beck hasn't proven Obama has surrounded himself with socialists( in there own words, speeches, histories etc) ...facts are facts....but liberals wont facts get in the way
Wallace too is a socialist...look it up for yourself. Socialists interpret the term "Social Justice" as meaning a political welfare system with reparations. That's hogwash.
Read up on Black Liberation Theology. That's where the perversion of the definitions began.
beck is out of control and i feel sorry for the morons that watch his program. I'll go one step further and say he's a dangerous fool that has been given a powerful medium and Fox news needs to be careful that they don't create a monster.
At first, I was remembering why I do not watch MSNBC. But then I realized, this man appears to be trying to force his interpretation of the bible on to us. Now aside from the whole Social Justice debate, Glenn Beck has a point about its distortion. But no hardened Liberal will allow it to be argued. This is EXACTLY why Protestants first came to America. Not without mentioning he has said he is for redistribution of wealth, claiming, "that's what the gospel is all about." Absurdity....
Jesus would be happy if you're charitable to the poor, that's what a virtuous man would do. But Jesus wouldn't approve of marxism, and he wouldn't approve of a state taking away your money to give to the poor. Virtue can't be forced - forced virtue is no virtue. Modesty in dress is a virtue for a woman, but if she dresses modestly only because of religious police who threaten her life, then her modesty is not necessary a sign of virtue. Would Jesus approve of jackboots forcing Jesus's teachings?
@megagagnon1 "Render unto Caesars what is Caesars" sound pretty lefty to me... I live currently in Nicaragua for work, and Ortega and Chavez have used Christianity quite well actually. Signs saying "Socialism Solidarity Christianity" Mind you I am a liberal and firmly believe that religion has no place in politics. Beck is wrong for attacking churches over what they say. Chavez and Ortega are too. But try to figure out Christ political leans is also wrong.
@hank1972 Caesar ruled the roman empire, and to run an empire you needed money, taxes. But that money went to things like soldiers salaries, it didn't go towards any welfare scheme. So rendering unto Caesar isn't marxism or socialism.
@megagagnon1 rendering unto Caesar is then fascist? Taxes for soldiers and military complex? Joking. I am an atheist but honestly I can not see how the teachings of Jesus would not promote leftist ideals. My buddy is an Any Rand Objectivist and has said the same thing. That said the point I was try to make is that honestly you can not 100% sure which way a 2000 year old man politics are gonna go, so don't.
@hank1972 Leftists are not into true charity, Jesus was. Leftists believe a guy with a gun (an IRS agent) should force you to give half of your earnings to make the government run. Jesus wouldn't like the violence associated with forced virtue. Muslims believe virtuous women dress modestly, so would a woman who dresses modestly in a muslim country be virtuous - if she did it because if she didn't she'd be put in prison by the religous police?
@megagagnon1 Not true about leftist at all... 1 I am a liberal, 2 I am living in a Leftist country right now. Example Cuba: They do sent Dr. all over the world treating the sick. I have seen them here. Fix you up send you off, no questions asked. Christian charities here don't do the same. I have seen them "help" others forcing many (if not all) to take their bible to Catholics or Indigenous. And virtue police look at US blue laws, Certain places can arrest in the US for selling porn, booze.
@hank1972 That isn't indicative of all Christian charities, but their are problems. A Christian charity is going to spread the gospel of Christ, but the needs of people must be met in order to open hearts to be receptive. Forcing is always wrong, but asking questions is not. And if someone doesn't care to listen, they are still helped all the same. Meet the needs first and it can become to gateway into speaking about the the Gospel of Christ. How it is done is paramount.
@RothdeMan I been up and down latin america and what i have seen is scares me. Mormons lying about their history about blacks, Evangelicals telling Indians that their dances are sins, Catholics forcing Indians to cover them selves and stop using their native wear. These cultures need to be left alone, they choose not join the modern times. It would be like me forcing the Amish to uses PCs. In Nicaragua most of natives have vanished. Compared to Panama where they flourish.
@hank1972 Like I said, their is a difference between forcing and sharing something. Yes, many Christians have misstep or overstepped throughout history and even now, which has caused great harm to societies and to Christianity. Jesus never beat anyone over the head to accept or reject what he was teaching.
@RothdeMan very well said my friend. I agree with you that on few things. Especially what you mentioned b4 about let them seek what ever religion they wish. Offer and let them make up their minds. And you are right about Jesus, not brow beating any 1 (may be the Rabbis) with his believes. He did just share his ideas to those who heard. I have often said the Jesus was a Jew 1st and Jews did not convert. See Atheist and Thiest can agree.
@megagagnon1@megagagnon1 Jesus really did not care of religion or taxes remember Mathew was a tax collector read Mark 2:14. I run a small biz and pay taxes at in US. with my work over seas, I play taxes here too (importing and some payroll)... does not compare. US is SO LOW, if I remember correctly highest about is 45% of top 2% of wage earners. Average americans pay 9%. most of the US never goes over 20% of taxes. Import taxes where I am runs 25-55% where i am.
@megagagnon1 Yes, with charity, the intentions are more important to God than the charity itself. 1 Corinthians 13:3 "And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing." Meaning, as the bible says, God is a God of hearts. It is why with any person, the world can adore them for what they do, yet God can revile their works because He has seen their heart. Charity is something given and done of free will.
@RothdeMan Exactly. Charity isn't excessive taxation in order to take care of the poor, charity is charitable organizations funded by people who voluntarily help other people.
@hank1972 Being a Christian doesn't exempt any from having to live in the world. Hence the scripture of giving to Caesar what is his. Reality is still reality. That doesn't mean any and all taxes are right or supported, but the legit purpose still is what it is. Yet, the nature of man comes forth then as it does now with taking more than should be and using it for more than what it should be used for.
@RothdeMan Another thing I have taken out of that quote is also to leave the state to do matters of the state. Yes not all taxes are legitimate, or right, but I enjoy the infrastructure like highways, nation parks, national defense, nation museum and so on. Taxes are a necessary evil in living in a society. I have yet to see a libertarian say "I hate taxes. so I will not use the interstate highways". " I would rather see my taxes pay for health care than out dated bombs" Jesse Ventura.
Jesus said each man was free to sin as long as they judged others by the same standard they held for themselves thus freeing each person of the moral demands of others. No behavior that any of us do can be judged by others since we will only be judged by what we think is right or wrong. The standard of others will never apply to us.
And on a side note: It is rather fascination how God is being forced out of everything in America by many of the same people that will then use the Gospel of Christ to try and foster a redistributive force under the distorted guise of helping.
@RothdeMan They are using the same strategy that the NAZIs used which is to use christianity to bring about socialism. Hitler claimed to be a good christians and good christians, of course, are socialist.
Lets assume that social justice is a part of the christian doctrine and it is the christian thing to do. This still does not obligate anyone to be a part of the social justice doctrine because people have the freedom of religion so this means a person can opt out of social justice if they choose to simply because they can choose whatever religion they want to be a part of.
@timbosforporn : fair enough! But...if you call yourself a follower of Jesus. If you choose to follow Jesus, too, you cannot ignore the reality that a personal, VOLUNTARY submission to all aspects of that Way INCLUDES a deep concern for the poor.
What muddies the waters a little here is that Progressives see Government as "we the people" and that this means we the people can pool our resources and do more together to help the poor...together.
@mowriter Well if followers of Jesus have to pool their resources together then what do the people who are not the follower of Jesus do? Why do they have to participate in this particular christian activity when their own religion tells them something different. I would think that their own God has more authority over their actions than Jesus or the Government does in that case.
@timbosforporn Exactly! It's like I said before, if people want to get into how the Christian Church as a whole has dropped the ball, and thus allowed for this intrusion of government under the guise of help, then by all means proceed.
Yet, to try and do this via Government by force and then try and back it up by distorting scripture, that is a NO.
@timbosforporn : non-followers of Jesus are welcome to benefit from the Christian ethic, without having to convert.
But as for govt., once again I am clarifying - the Bible doesn't mandate big govt. entitlement, but it DOES mandate hard work from ALL, and ETHICAL business from the wealthy. The ethical wealthy have NOTHING to fear from God; the rich who don't make money their God and who practice charity are also innocent.
@mowriter That is a choice someone makes for themselves to help others. You said yourself that a christian is a socialist but the freedom of religion basically says I don't have to be a christian if I don't want to which means I don't have to participate in any christian ethic either in my personal or public life. Its a choice each individual makes for themselves and not a choice they make for others.
Jesus NEVER preached Social Justice the way Progressives are trying to spin it. Charity comes from the heart of the individual, NOT forcing someone to give something to another and calling it "charity". No where in the Bible will you see Jesus endorsing Social Justice as the Redistribution of Wealth this administration and many of its supporters are pushing. That said, if you want to talk about the Church having dropped the ball on the responsibility as Christians, that is another story.
@RothdeMan : Jesus preached Social justice through both the individual and the corporate acts of the collected Church.
Wallis is one such member of said Church, petitioning his government for a redress of grievances. Interpreting "we the people" to mean our Government is nothing but the collective will of us individuals. To relegate OUR tax money in ways that can help the poor. Nothing more.
@mowriter Sorry, Wallis' definition of Social Justice is not what Jesus preached. Jesus never preached Redistribution of Wealth. He never preached forcing anyone's hand individually or through a collective power(i.e. the government) and then calling it charity.
@RothdeMan : You misattribute Wallis's position. Jesus absolutely preached hope for the poor, and warnings to the rich.
It might be a leap, but that very basic premise sounds a LOT more like Progressive than Reactionary in this current culture, and a lot more like social justice than corporatist butt-kissing.
@mowriter Might be a leap? That might be an understatement.
Jesus in talking of the rich warned them because being rich and being able to afford any and all earthly things can make a man believe that he does not need God or his earthly possessions are more important to him. That does not mean that being rich will keep one from God. Did Jesus force the rich young ruler in Luke 18:18-27? No. Redistribution of Wealth is not a choice, but force in the guise of what is falsely labeled charity.
@RothdeMan : I agree, in part. The warnings against the Rich were twofold: that they had, in fact, made money their god, and that they had gained their wealth by exploiting their workers and outright theft.
I was thinking after my last comment about the simultaneous repentance of the TAX COLLECTOR, who promised to repay HIS stolen wealth. Integrity is for both the rich and the government, I fully acknowledge that. Jesus considered it salvation when the tax collector repented, too.
@mowriter Another leap. "and that they had gained their wealth by exploiting their workers and outright theft." Are you suggesting that anyone whom is rich somehow stole it or exploited someone? Or that Jesus ever implied that? Integrity is for ALL.
Zacchaeus repented and repaid what he took. To try and marry this to Redistribution of Wealth is disingenuous because you attempt to punish everyone of means by and for actions of a government that has no money, but only the money of tax payers.
@RothdeMan : Pro 22:22 Do not exploit the poor because they are poor and do not crush the needy in court,
Isa 58:3 'Why have we fasted,' they say, 'and you have not seen it? Why have we humbled ourselves, and you have not noticed?' "Yet on the day of your fasting, you do as you please and exploit all your workers.
Jam 2:6 But you have insulted the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court?
James 5:1-4 Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming upon you. Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. Look! The wages you failed to pay the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty.
@RothdeMan : You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter. You have condemned and murdered innocent men, who were not opposing you.
-------
Sorry, the only leap is thinking the Bible defends unethical business practices and economic terrorism. The wealthy who do not exploit their workers are not guilty.
@mowriter Sorry, the leap is you acting as if every person whom is rich is some sort of villain. And then to try and marry that with businessman whom may or may not be corrupt, aided by a corrupt government. Yet, condemn them all the same. And then taut salvation for them through a collective work of a government which even if enacted would no more save them than you or I could, because God deals with the individual, not the collective.
A matter of the heart cannot be corrected externally.
@RothdeMan : I have certainly not asserted that. I have asserted that ANY unethical wealth accumulation, govt. or private, calls for repentance. I have acknowledged the wrongdoing in government theft along with corporate theft, while you seem to have clarity of vision only against government.
MY point is not on govt. salvation, but what the Bible says. We can all do as we please, Bible notwithstanding. Or we can follow the Bible and REALLY vote the Bible - in regards to economics, too.
Yes... there is a security net... problem is, for many "poor" it has become A HAMMOCK. Not a temporary aid. It becomes a lifestyle. I see it all over my neighborhood. People in their 20's WHO DON'T WORK. They scam the system. It's all over the place. I can't find a parking place where I live during the day... everyone is home watching TV or doing porn. And "poor people" why are they poor? Don't they want to do what is necessary to actually be employable? MANY DON'T. Poverty is sometimes a CHOICE
You need to actually READ the bible. Jesus spoke of helping people through CHARITY... GIVING. Not the liberal idea of taxing (taking money by force) and redistributing wealth. Since you don't know history, nor read anything (like a liberal), Social Justice is a term Karl Marx developed. I thought you were about "hey, DON'T JUDGE ME!", right? Justice is not taking from the EARNERS and giving to the NON-EARNERS (out of CHOICE). That's called THEFT.
So when the poor is losing their jobs and get evicted, they should not have a security net that will give them healthcare and roof over their heads?
If noone is there to bother helping them out, let them starve and die on the street?
What you are advocating here is merely a dictatorship with a Laisse Faire policy. And this government is easily bought by the rich so they can suppress the poor and keep them ignorant.
I think you do not know very well what liberty or constitution is all about.
I think "turn the other cheek" pretty well summens up his pasifism.
If I understand you correctly: You are defending the rich man towards the poor in the name of Jesus. You know who have collected taxes since dinosaurs ate people for breakfast? The Church! The Christian Church have demanded taxes in the name of their Lord!
I other words: The Christian Church have committed theft as long as it has been in power. I think it's time it repaid for this and its empty promises!
Are you against the wars that Bush waged in 2001 and 2003 for your tax dollars?
Are you against the corporate welfare that have been given at the expence of the poor? Truth is, that we have been living under something that resembles a tyranny the past 2000 years! Taxes have always been collected! Taxes have been collected in order to fight religious wars.
If you were a true follower of Jesus, you would have give away all your riches now & become pasifist
Forced charity is not charity plain and simple. You give because it is right, you don't take from one and give to another because you want to. The fact that people like Olbermann still can't see the difference doesn't make Beck wrong.
Hmmm, Jesus preaching the gospel to the poor is meant by today's wolves as accepting homosexuals into our churches without having them to understand that "repentance" is a gift,,, even so come Lord Jesus
Gr8eskape 4 weeks ago
i guess jesus was just joking in matthew 25 verses35-47
pdxpaul1 1 month ago
Christ preached love to the poor. Social justice is in conflict with the Bible by stealing the rich's money and giving it to poor people who don't work hard. Against the Holy Bible and the United States Constitution.
CoolGuy18201 1 month ago
@CoolGuy18201 you have no idea what social justice means ,you idiot stop mouthing conserative b.s. try reading a man named jesus,hes in your bible-matthew is a good book why not read it
pdxpaul1 1 month ago
Ignorant moron!
masala505 1 month ago
If God made Mary pregnant, and Jesus is his son, but Jesus is also God, then God is a MOTHERFUCKER.
Thats why I am a Mormon.
pickupthePWN 3 months ago
"Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” -Matthew 19:21 (Mark 10:21; Luke 14:33 & Mark 12:43-44; Matthew 25:31-46)
xephyr1000 4 months ago
7. He taught that we should fight for Justice and ‘turn the other cheek’ to petty morality.
8. He was a laborer and a teacher.
9. He practiced healing and forgiveness.
10. He taught that you cannot be an imperialist and a disciple at the same time.
Concerning wealth and taxes: Jesus would have you give EVERYTHING you have:
xephyr1000 4 months ago
10 REASONS THE JESUS OF THE BIBLE WAS A SOCIALIST:
1. He owned nothing.
2. He argued for the dissolution of the family and the establishment of communes.
3. He loved all people regardless of ethnicity or class.
4. He revolted against the imperial government, established religion and finance capitalism (usury).
5. He taught that we should act as one body, one blood.
6. He taught that his kingdom (ie nation state) is in the heart and not below the feet.
xephyr1000 4 months ago
f Jesus were to appear today, Christians would be the first to denounce him as a Socialist, a Progressive and an Activist, not a Capitalist or a Conservative.
Jesus sought to change prevailing attitudes, he reached out to the outcasts, the poor and the weak and taught AGAINST religious dogma. Jesus would find Christianity a very strange thing.
xephyr1000 4 months ago
@xephyr1000
It is the Zionists the are the ones who would maccuse him of Socialism, as these people are supportive of the welfare given to the Zionist state of Israel. They actualloy wanted to make the foreign aid to Israel permanent -- even when the US is borrowing fromm Socialist China.
myyou1 4 months ago
@myyou1
☪ = ✈日日= ☠
TAQIYYA: Muslim mandate to LIE to non-Muslims.
Islam is by NO MEANS a peaceful religion. It has the stated goal of converting the entire world's population to Islam (by force if necessary) and forcing all to live under Shari'a by tyrannical despotic theocratic law.
xephyr1000 4 months ago
@xephyr1000
You have to come up with the "Islam" boggman as a smoke screen to cover up the Zionist strangle hold on the United States. Hope Ron Paul gets elected and we can free Our nation from the Zionist agents who control the political and Economic system. While at it, please pass on to true American patriots about Zionist Israeli stealing American property -- Read: Philip Giraldi's "Stealing Success Tel Aviv Style".
myyou1 4 months ago
@xephyr1000 Vile, bigoted bullshit. "Taqiyya" means "KKK bullshit to spread hate of Muslims." It is NOT part of Islam to "convert the world by force", "Shari'a" is a made-up bogeyman.
Glenn Beck is a blasphemous disgrace to all believers. Social justice is the ONLY thing Christ preached. It's not the top thing, it's the ONLY thing.
Jim Wallis is a real Christian, Glenn Beck is not.
PrisonerNumber9653 2 months ago
im in a social justice class & im a atheist social justice is for human rights how could we help people & humanity in the long run its not charity its not the church & its not the government im no expert on social justice but what i know enough to say social justice is caring about people & preserving individualism
Nesquick369 5 months ago
There's the Christians that are into the word of Jesus, and there's the Christians that are really just doomsday prophecy followers.. They are two seperate religions that have combined into one over centuries.
smokydave 5 months ago
Glenn Beck is a pure idiot..anyone who follows his advice and words is also an idiot....tv is full of goons like Beck on both sides of the isle
dennisrknight 6 months ago
Bible verse: A man who does not work, goes hungry.
tkd4zgqg 6 months ago
Social Justice = Liberal/Progressives perversion of christianity. I'm all for helping the needy but you must remember: Perfect example of charity & what people should do to assist the needy, as this old chineese proverb explains "You can give a man a fish & he will eat for a day, Or you can teach a man how to fish & he he will eat for the rest of his life." There are too many today that have become complacent in receiving charity. They feel entitled. Not what God intended.
tkd4zgqg 6 months ago
Luke 14:12
[Jesus] proceeded to say also to the man that invited him: “When you spread a dinner or evening meal, do not call your friends or your brothers or your relatives or rich neighbors. Perhaps sometime they might also invite you in return and it would become a repayment to you. But when you spread a feast, invite poor people, crippled, lame, blind; and you will be happy, because they have nothing with which to repay you. For you will be repaid in the resurrection of the righteous ones.”
customanalogue 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
This is quite frightening. To learn what "the new world order" and "globalization" and "social justice" means, study "United Nations Agenda 21." Everyone should know what this agenda means to their everyday life. It's happening NOW!
vechorik 7 months ago
So what church should we go to? Wall Street?
DamazViccar 7 months ago
social justice is a load of crap.
pvrome98 7 months ago
I think that there is something Love desires that sometimes overrides our physical well-being, and that is, our spiritual well-being.
God would prefer us to learn to love freely, and trust him, than to be blessed.
But how can we learn to love, unless we find others around us in need?
And how can we learn to love freely, if the choice to give or not to give is taken out of our hands by law?
And how can we learn to pray and trust him, if we are never in need?
antandcharmi 9 months ago
God allowed the fall for a reason. This planet is now not only a place where people can be born of God, but also a learning centre for them to grow in love and trust.
But if we eliminate hardship and poverty by institutionally forceful means, such as increased taxation and government programs in place of charitable organisations, we also eliminate the opportunity to choose to give generously and cheerfully; to learn to love man, and trust God.
antandcharmi 9 months ago
Either we give voluntarily and people are blessed with a view of God's nature, as on Christmas Day, or we do not give at all, and the omission of God in our lives is not visible as all our lives are levelled with an iron hand regardless of our moral choices and behaviour.
In the place of God, man becomes the benefactor which God elected not to be (in order to allow individuals to choose to fulfill that role). In erasing poverty man also erases the need for God and the need to answer to God.
antandcharmi 9 months ago
Worse still, man's forceful method of stealing from the blessed to give to the poor also breeds bribery, corruption, waste and abuse of power. Man never succeeds in his dream of being that mighty benefactor, but becomes a slave and a tyrant instead.
And worst of all, the end result of that kindness is a state worse than the first, because the corruption becomes a snow-ball of loss of productivity and increased need.
antandcharmi 9 months ago
America in the 19th century became world famous for freedom and prosperity. They allowed a man to keep his earnings, and they became a generous people.
If you look at Jesus, he always spoke to the individual about giving, and about trusting in God not money. He never spoke to the government.
That all said, it remains true that we need to be active and proactive in good works and compassionate about the needs of others, even those far away. And wise in ensuring that the money is used well.
antandcharmi 9 months ago
What is social justice? Is it a call to the personal moral choice to give, or is it forcing people to give?
antandcharmi 9 months ago
@antandcharmi
Social justice can be equated to how social animals live in the wild. Any creature who lives in a community group can live easier knowing theres many others to help him/her and vice versa. However living in a group means one must cooperate with others to survive. This means that one has to put others before themselves. Essentially it's all about give and take.
NUTCASE71733 7 months ago
@NUTCASE71733 Bad example of your twisted belief. You forget that the weak die in herds as they are left behind by the herd for the wolves to fest. Simply a part of nature. The community of almost animal group will cast out or kill those that do not do there share of the work to be done.
tkd4zgqg 6 months ago
Could someone explain to me what's so scary about the phrase social justice?
ivlfounder 9 months ago
@ivlfounder Read the truth above & you will see.
tkd4zgqg 6 months ago
@tkd4zgqg
I would hope we are better than animals.
ivlfounder 6 months ago
@ivlfounder I agree, Many humans are better. Like yourself, U show compasion by your statement. But many are not. They have been lead down the wrong path by evil. We(Good People) must never forget human history, even recent history(Look @ the NAZI's back in the 1930 & 40s. Iran's leader & how he treating his own people). Humans inflict evil upon other humans, daily. All it takes it for good people to say/do nothing, which is as bad as the people commiting the evil deed(s).
tkd4zgqg 6 months ago
@tkd4zgqg
Thanks.
In all fairness social justice is a blanket term that can be applied to topics ranging from abolitionism to veganism.
ivlfounder 6 months ago
Jesus was a Socialist! Spread the wealth and heal the sick with no pay are you kidding? Jesus healed the sick even though they had NO Money! Jesus fed Thousand who had no food! Jesus did not run around capitalizing on ideas like that moron Palin for example!
deeppurple28 9 months ago
oh please stop trying to turn jesus into a politician or even one who was interested politically... everyone.
drvn8 9 months ago
If Jesus lived today, Glenn Beck would call him a communist. Fact.
SomeoneCrazy2 9 months ago
wow some of these comments are just a little too crazy.
tcitalianguy 10 months ago
Sorry, Mr. Lamestream media man, you don't know sqwat about Jesus so quit pretending you read the Bible. Jesus would condemn communism or nazi socialism. Yes, the nazis were socialists who believed in taking from one group to give to another. It is WRONG no matter what your color or economic status. THOU SHALT NOT COVET THY NEIGHBORS GOODS!
childrescuer 1 year ago
@childrescuer
The Nazis were socialists? Yeah. That's why they killed so many unionists. Makes perfect sense.
Captainoldspice 1 year ago
@Captainoldspice you are an uneducated moron. Do some research. Where do you think the moniker NAZI comes from? It means National Aryan Socialist International union. Google it or read hitler's book, Mein Kampf. You are a good example of the dumbing down of America.
poloniawarrior 1 year ago
@poloniawarrior
The Nazi party incorporated the word "socialist" in their name because the ideology had a lot of appeal during the economic slush of 1930s Germany. Nazi Germany's economic policies were pretty well to the right.
Captainoldspice 1 year ago
@Captainoldspice You don't know what you are talking about. It may be the liberal American incorporated word for right, but by European standards they were socialists which means strict government control over all social aspects of the citizenry.
childrescuer 1 year ago
@childrescuer Nazis were not socialist. Their economic system relied heavily on state-sponsored corporatism, and while they did engage in large amounts of social spending (which for some reason IS socialism to those ignorant of even the most basic ideas in political philosophy), their policies subverted and destroyed the most fundamental tenet of Socialism: Worker control of the means of production.
Social spending does not make for a socialist state, though it is one of the aspects of one.
Keinlicht 1 year ago
@Keinlicht It was called the National Socialist German Workers Party, and I din't know what you are trying to spin here, but socialism means the government taking control of all aspects of the social lives of its citizens, eliminating the rights of the individual for the so-called 'greater good' and that means redistributing your property and even children to strengthen society by means of war, indoctrination, persecution or intimidation. How old are you? 12?
childrescuer 1 year ago
@childrescuer WOOT! WIN WIN WIN!!!
Silvertrimm 1 year ago
@Keinlicht No wonder - look at this loser's channel page. He is a stoner goth with only 3 loser friends and 2 subscribers. He's 30 yrs.old and should know better. I see another Jared Laughner on the loose. With this one.
childrescuer 1 year ago
@childrescuer Great ad hominem there, because obviously I just try so hard to make my channel popular. It really matters to me. It's my identity.
More seriously though you ignore the basic concept of Socialism. You do realize that in the USSR they had a 'Communist worker's party' as well, right? And they were about as far from socialism as the Nazis were.
Take your head out of glenn beck's ass and look around for once, you haven't the faintest idea what you're talking about. Just shut it.
Keinlicht 1 year ago
@Keinlicht You little traitor! I've been to the USSR when it was communist when you were just getting your head out your momma's ass! If you don't STFU we will stuff you back up yo mamma!
poloniawarrior 1 year ago
@poloniawarrior What about my statement amounts to treason? I couldn't give a fuck if you've lived 100 years and been to every socialist country that ever existed. The USSR's system of forced authoritarian collectivism is not nor was ever intended to be Socialism.
The social programs supported by this system were 'socialist' according to modern namenclature, but the essence of socialism was not represented in the United Soviet Socialist Republic. Lenin himself recognized this.
Keinlicht 1 year ago
@Keinlicht You are a traitor because you believe the government goons should dictate every aspect of our lives. Russians never thought their socialism would turn into a dictatorship, but it ALWAYS DOES. Every singke socialist country on this earth is now very unhappy with their governments, including Sweden and Canada where I lived for 10 years. You are just a stoner living in daddy's basement who does not want to grow up and be self sufficient.
childrescuer 1 year ago
@childrescuer You don't know anything about what I believe, so don't fucking put words in my mouth. I believe that Government, in service of the people of the country, should and in some cases must institute certain justifiable social programs in an attempt to actively reduce the gap in terms of opportunity between rich and poor. Just because previous attempts at socialism have failed, doesn't mean they always will. You're just a purity ring faggot who's never gotten past fox news "logic".
Keinlicht 1 year ago
@childrescuer
Taking control of the social aspects of "citizenry"?
Gays are abominations, abortions should be banned, corporations can decide your future, how can you not support our war you pinko liberal?
Sounds like an awfully conservative approach to me.
Captainoldspice 1 year ago
@Captainoldspice You really like chatting with me don't you? Yes, I am a right wing conservative momma grizzly. Does that turn you on?
childrescuer 1 year ago
@poloniawarrior
So maybe you should consider who refer to as an uneducated moron.
Captainoldspice 1 year ago
If we really have a separation of church and state, the government must not be allowed to have a hand in the social justice the church says must occur. Right?
ReddNeckerson 1 year ago
@ReddNeckerson Man, that's a succint bull's eye! Awesome!
antandcharmi 9 months ago
@ReddNeckerson - social justice has nothing to do with church or religion.
IncognitoShhh 6 months ago
LONG LIVE COMRADE JESUS!!!
JoseTwitterFan 1 year ago
This is what I find so damn funny. During his interview with Wallace, he said that he disagreed with the economic component and the liberation theology of the original march. What his fucking retarded ass fails to realize is that if he disagrees with that.........HE OSTENSIBLY DISAGREES WITH THE ENTIRE MOVEMENT!!!! I swear to God Beck is a lying SOB and anyone who takes what he says as gosper are idiots (his words not mine.)
DaHonestAbe 1 year ago
@DaHonestAbe *gospel
DaHonestAbe 1 year ago
Redistribution of wealth happens for two reasons: 1. administering charity on a national scale based on individual transactions from someone who can spare money to someone who needs money is impractical. 2. Give people a choice, and the vast majority will choose not to share. In Victorian Britain, charity and philanthropy was the primary mechanism for redistributing wealth. Read Dickens for an example of such a society.
parlezuml 1 year ago
umm who cares what jesus would want? keep religion out of politics. thats how you start massive warfare.
john12892 1 year ago
Never did Christ petition the government or Kings to provide for the poor. Christ petitioned people to give of themselves. That is not social justice. Social Justice is taking from one to give to another. More importantly, it is establishing an authority other than you as one who redistributes your weath. It posits Government as a replacement for conscience, for God.
seraphlaim 1 year ago
this entire conversation is retarded. Beck didnt walk anything back. O'Donnell and Wallis are completely misrepresenting Beck's argument, which is that government has no part. The man has Faith Hope & Charity all over his studio for Christs sakes.
seraphlaim 1 year ago
Jesus is 1900 years older then Karl Marx and social religion that you believe. I'll pray that you find God.
Glenn666 1 year ago
"For the earth is full, and there is enough and to spare; yea, I prepared all things, and have given unto the children of men to be agents unto themselves. Therefore, if any man shall take of the abundance which I have made, and impart not his portion, according to the law of my gospel, unto the poor and the needy, he shall, with the wicked, lift up his eyes in hell, being in torment." D&C 104:17-18
Oops, looks like Mormonism supports social/economic justice. ;)
discjockeyfuture 1 year ago
@discjockeyfuture Where does it say social/economic justice? It just says give until it hurts, not set up a global communist government with Barrack OBama who isn't the second coming of Christ lol
Glenn666 1 year ago
Jesus does call us to be charitable, and love our neighbor as ourself. Not as a political message but a spiritual attribute. NO MAN OR GOVT. SHOULD FORCE ANY MAN TO BE CHARITABLE OR LOVE THEIR NEIGHBOR!!!!!!!!!!!!! By doing so MAN has removed free will. We all have a choice to participate or not. . I hope we could participate without losing our freedom to CHOOSE.
dikwiked 1 year ago
@dikwiked In this instance, social justice has nothing to do with men or government forcing charitableness, but the spiritual philosophy of church congregations. Beck said to run from "social justice" in churches. What, pray tell, is the problem with churches feeding the poor or housing the homeless? That is NOT socialism because non-government organizations cannot be socialist by definition.
hnguthrie 1 year ago
Jesus was a liberal. Poor deluded Republicans.
cablepanos 1 year ago 12
@cablepanos
Jesus said "No one comes to the Father except through Me"John14:6 Is that what liberals believe?
Jesus said"Whoever is not with Me, is against me" Luke 11:22 Is that what liberals believe?
Jesus said "Whosoever looks on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." Matthew 5:24 Is that what liberals believe, also?
Jesus said"Who ever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven."
Liberal again?...I think NOT
08Revelator 1 year ago
This guy Rev. Jim Wallis quotes Jesus' Words in Luke 4:18 "The Spirit of the Lord in upon Me, because He hath anointed Me to preach the good news of the gospel to the poor..." This man, being a "scholar" of the Bible ought to know that "poor" here means POOR IN SPIRIT. The greek word is "ptochos" = lowly and afflicted, those destitute of eternal riches, NOT those who do not have worldly money!. This is where the line is clearly made in this argument. Think as men think or read it as God thinks.
08Revelator 1 year ago
@08Revelator Just to be clear, I am an atheist.I find it interesting that english speaking people feel the need to re-translate and re-interpret the translations and interpretations.One might think the 'inerrant word of god' would be easier to figure out. If there were a god, you would not know what he 'thinks' any more than I.
Matthew 19:24And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.Don't sound Repub
cablepanos 1 year ago
@cablepanos
"the eye of a needle" is the gate that a camel had to fit through before returning to his stable. Anything the camel would have on its back would need to be removed before fitting though the gate.The desire for the things that a wealthy man owns, can prevent him from entering into the kingdom. This is not political, when you hold something higher than God, that thing has to go, period. Seems pretty simple to me, like the Word, until men like you make it mean whatever you want it to.
08Revelator 1 year ago
@08Revelator I realize the Bible is a religious text, and not necessarily political. Scripture has no bearing on my life, except when others try to use it to push their political agenda. Your beef is with your fellow Christians, not me. I almost fell of my chair laughing at "until men like you make it mean whatever you want it to." That's what I am against too. Can you show me anywhere in history (besides Christian apologetics) your usage of "eye of a needle'? LOL, hypocrite.
cablepanos 1 year ago
@cablepanos
This "christian" on the video to me is self serving and not taking a stand for what it means to be a Christian at all. I'm just judging him by his fruit as should you do for him and me, for that matter. If you are just as insenced by God's Word being twisted for a political agenda as I am, then why do you insist on pitching such a wedge in our dialog?
08Revelator 1 year ago
And about the "eye of the needle" thing, at this point, as much as it pains my ego to say it, you are right. The eye of a needle has little to no historical significance in the context I used..Looks like I have to go back the drawing board on that one, before I act like I know more than I do.
08Revelator 1 year ago
What I have stated was an opinion, and therefore not appropriate when rightly dividing the Word. Still with that even said, the meaning of the parable does not change. "It is both figuratively and literally impossible for man, weather wealthy or not, to get into the kingdom. But with God all things are possible. His Grace made it possible for me, and I certainly wouldn't want to stand in His way of doing that for you, at some point. Do we at least agree there?
08Revelator 1 year ago
@08Revelator I appreciate your honesty regarding the 'eye of needle' and I apologize for being so rude in calling you a hypocrite. It wasn't necessary to call you that; it should have been enough to point out the hypocrisy. However, I don't agree with your interpretation of the parable. The parable does not say "wealthy or NOT" it clearly states "wealthy". This is not the only reference. What do you make of Matthew 19:21? These verses, I'm afraid, sound more "liberal" than Republican or Tea P.
cablepanos 1 year ago
@cablepanos
i think like all scripture, even the one about the eye of a needle, if must be taken in context, and rightly divided. This comes after the rich man who approaches Jesus asks him what must he do to inherit eternal life. He said he had been faithful in all the commandments of the law and asked what did he miss. To which Jesus tells that man that he has to sell all that he has and give to the poor (exactly what is hardest for him to do.
08Revelator 1 year ago
This rich man obeyed the letter of the Law but not the heart of it. This is something Jesus did not stand for. So I don't see where it is appropriate to say that every rich man must sell all that he has and give to the poor. That would be socialism and "social robin hood justice". This is doing it man's way. But God has His Own Way. Every rich man was not this rich man, and did not have this man's heart, whom Jesus was speaking to. He asked what he lacked, and the Jesus told him.
08Revelator 1 year ago
@08Revelator Wow! The logical contortions you are willing to go through to make the Bible fit your personal beliefs are (almost) unbelievable. The definition of parable: a short story that uses familiar events to illustrate a religious or ethical point. So really? Jesus wasn't relating an ethical point to everyone, just this one guy (obeyed 2 letter, not heart)? So you are saying; Jesus tells each individual what they need, and it is not the same for everyone? What's the point of the Bible then?
cablepanos 1 year ago
@cablepanos
What I'm saying is that lesson learned by that one rich man in Matthew can, will, and have served many man like him. Although we are all made differently and are at different places in our walks of faith, be it a little, much , or none at all yet, there is nothing new in the overall picture under the sun. We all share common problems and struggles and confusion. What varies is how that person going through those common things receives the voice of Truth when it is spoken to them.
08Revelator 1 year ago
And that is the purpose of a parable. To hide the things of God from the ones who consider themselves wise, and reveal them to the simple, who know they don't know everything. So yes of course I guess that could be "relating an ethical point" But not to everyone. Only those who have simple and humble ears to hear and eyes to see.
08Revelator 1 year ago
@08Revelator We might be getting somewhere here. So, what you are saying is that Jesus was relating an ethical point to his followers (Christians). Correct? Now, what was the point of the parable?
cablepanos 1 year ago
@cablepanos
Jesus aimed all of his parables to those who are worthy to receive them, in his eyes. The humble and poor in spirit. Hence the original argument about Luke 4:18. Not the poor in wallet. And to the rich man, rich in the things of this world, Jesus knew that he was poor is the things of God. So he had to become poor in the things of this world, to obtain riches in the Kingdom of God. This is the point of the parable.
08Revelator 1 year ago
@08Revelator How can you be serious? Not rich in the "things of God". You yourself said "obeyed to the letter". The only thing he was lacking was he had too much wealth. What follows is my opinion and summary of our conversation. I respect people, but not necessarily their beliefs. I mean no disrespect when I tell you this; Your religion has damaged your capacity for critical thinking. see part 2
cablepanos 1 year ago
@cablepanos
No what he was lacking was the he loved his wealth more than he loved God. Jesus just told him to make the choice.
08Revelator 1 year ago
@cablepanos
And just for the record, "obeying the letter of the Law" and not the heart of it, is saying that he totally missed the point, as have you. The Word was written for man to know the heart of it. Only then can he be rich in the things of God. You have only picked away at the letter of the Law and of the Words of Christ. You have missed their meaning.
You will not always get such a good shot of this my friend. You shouldn't throw it away as if it were worthless.
08Revelator 1 year ago
@08Revelator In order to find the 'real truth', one cannot start with a conclusion, then look for evidence to support it. Real critical thought comes from inductive reasoning, or using evidence to come to a conclusion, not the other way around. If one is sure of their conclusion, they can make anything fit in with it. That is what you have been doing. see part 3
cablepanos 1 year ago
@cablepanos Until you can divorce your emotional bias towards god from your thought processes in regards to your religion, you will continue to warp logic to fit your 'reality'. I sincerely feel sorry for you. Good luck.
cablepanos 1 year ago
@cablepanos
It is clear by your insistence to insult me still, after all I have done for you was offer sincere explanations from my point of view as a Christian, that we are done. I really wish you wouldn't have tried to tare me down at the end there, dude. Weather a person of faith or not, it is safe to say that you never really wanted to hear anything else other than what pleased you, regardless of its validity. So go argue with someone else. The only thing I am sorry for , is wasting my time
08Revelator 1 year ago
Now could this be a common problem in the hearts of rich men, sure. But every person is different, and needs to be taught differently, care for differently, and helped differently. This is why a Christians salvation is such a beautiful thing. It is literally like God knows how we have to be saved, and as long as we do the thing that He asked when we say "Lord what do I lack?" Than the promise is with us as well..
08Revelator 1 year ago
@cablepanos jesus was a social democrat
tvcrunkfool 9 months ago
@cablepanos thts the stupidest thing ive ever heard
pvrome98 7 months ago
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Everyone should learn about United Nations Agenda 21. "Social Justice" and redistribution of wealth sounds cool to American liberals. Wait until they find that their money is not being redistributed in America, but to other countries. Is that really what they want? I don't think so. Remember the blacks waiting in line for their "Obama money?" They really thought redistribution of wealth was coming to them. People on welfare in America are richer than many people in 3rd world countries.
vechorik 6 months ago
Oh, people of faith, read your Bible and heed the warning. Anything that places the betterment of man over the Father does nothing but damn the souls of millions and give few momentary peace. Social Justice is a very poor copy of God's Justice. They are not synonymous. One is original, and one is counterfeit.
infiltrationministry 1 year ago
God's justice calls for the Church to preach the Gospel and take care of their neighbors economically, spiritually, and mentally no matter what their station, always preaching the message of Jesus Christ. Social justice only takes care of people's economic and social needs for a time.
infiltrationministry 1 year ago
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infiltrationministry 1 year ago
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infiltrationministry 1 year ago
i have to say i like the part where they cut up the bible i thought that was a pretty good idea
Nibielari 1 year ago
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Nibielari 1 year ago
CODE WORDS!?!?! That's rich.
So Jesus was teaching using code words?
Glenn is the anti-christ!
KozmoJ68 1 year ago
"Atheism leads a man to sense, to philosophy, to natural piety, to laws, to reputation: all of which may be guides to an outward moral virtue…I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." (Susan B. Anthony)
4me2cclearly 1 year ago
As a former Christian, it was a huge revelation to me when I found out there were many, many other ancient texts that were once considered Holy. One question leads to another. You find out about all the translations, the dissent brutally crushed and all the heresies. You start asking who chose which books, and what their motives were, and by what rationale they made the selection. You learn about the various edits that have been made--pretty soon you realize that it's just bullshit.
4me2cclearly 1 year ago
The bible say’s:
The Cure for Leprosy:
1. Take a live bird and dip it in the blood of a dead bird, and sprinkle the blood onto the lepor seven times.
2. Get a Lamb, kill it, then sprinkle its blood onto the lepor's right ear, thumb and big toe.
3. Sprinkle the lepor with oil seven times, then wipe the excess onto their right ear, thumb and big toe.
4. Repeat step #1, then spread the blood around the lepor's home.
Lev14 : 2-52
And you people believe this crap?
4me2cclearly 1 year ago
Beck is right,just about all of Obama's cabinet and cronies have communist leanings and Jesus never taught people to take from the rich and give to the poor,Jesus appealed to us to do what is right for the less fortunate i.e.widows and orphans,Paul even made it clearer,if someone who can doesn't work,they don't eat.Jim Wallace is ecumenical and believes all sin is normal and that it's un-Christian to call sin sin and God forbid ever telling anyone that SIN is Real and WILL SEND YOU TO HELL!
CBALLEN 1 year ago
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@CBALLEN
Really!?You mean really really!?
Your a f@ckin nut!! LOL
The fact that incredulity, skepticism, doubt, and a demand for proof is one of the unpardonable sins, and belief without these things is one of the greatest virtues is the thing that makes me MOST suspicious of religion.
Rational logic is the way to go. atheism will naturally follow.
82% of people believe in god.
100% of them have no idea why.
4me2cclearly 1 year ago 2
my error...."Wallis" not Wallace......his group Sojourners takes money from Billionaire left wing activist George Soros
lol...Oblermann is such a snake , trying to portray Wallis as some bi-partisan religious figure
nudgler 1 year ago
lol....as if Beck hasn't proven Obama has surrounded himself with socialists( in there own words, speeches, histories etc) ...facts are facts....but liberals wont facts get in the way
Wallace too is a socialist...look it up for yourself. Socialists interpret the term "Social Justice" as meaning a political welfare system with reparations. That's hogwash.
Read up on Black Liberation Theology. That's where the perversion of the definitions began.
nudgler 1 year ago
beck is out of control and i feel sorry for the morons that watch his program. I'll go one step further and say he's a dangerous fool that has been given a powerful medium and Fox news needs to be careful that they don't create a monster.
ek04show 1 year ago
At first, I was remembering why I do not watch MSNBC. But then I realized, this man appears to be trying to force his interpretation of the bible on to us. Now aside from the whole Social Justice debate, Glenn Beck has a point about its distortion. But no hardened Liberal will allow it to be argued. This is EXACTLY why Protestants first came to America. Not without mentioning he has said he is for redistribution of wealth, claiming, "that's what the gospel is all about." Absurdity....
Wyattinmnk 1 year ago
I want to interview Glenn Becks magic underwear.
flotonz420 1 year ago
Jesus would be happy if you're charitable to the poor, that's what a virtuous man would do. But Jesus wouldn't approve of marxism, and he wouldn't approve of a state taking away your money to give to the poor. Virtue can't be forced - forced virtue is no virtue. Modesty in dress is a virtue for a woman, but if she dresses modestly only because of religious police who threaten her life, then her modesty is not necessary a sign of virtue. Would Jesus approve of jackboots forcing Jesus's teachings?
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@megagagnon1 "Render unto Caesars what is Caesars" sound pretty lefty to me... I live currently in Nicaragua for work, and Ortega and Chavez have used Christianity quite well actually. Signs saying "Socialism Solidarity Christianity" Mind you I am a liberal and firmly believe that religion has no place in politics. Beck is wrong for attacking churches over what they say. Chavez and Ortega are too. But try to figure out Christ political leans is also wrong.
hank1972 1 year ago
@hank1972 Caesar ruled the roman empire, and to run an empire you needed money, taxes. But that money went to things like soldiers salaries, it didn't go towards any welfare scheme. So rendering unto Caesar isn't marxism or socialism.
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@megagagnon1 rendering unto Caesar is then fascist? Taxes for soldiers and military complex? Joking. I am an atheist but honestly I can not see how the teachings of Jesus would not promote leftist ideals. My buddy is an Any Rand Objectivist and has said the same thing. That said the point I was try to make is that honestly you can not 100% sure which way a 2000 year old man politics are gonna go, so don't.
hank1972 1 year ago
@hank1972 Leftists are not into true charity, Jesus was. Leftists believe a guy with a gun (an IRS agent) should force you to give half of your earnings to make the government run. Jesus wouldn't like the violence associated with forced virtue. Muslims believe virtuous women dress modestly, so would a woman who dresses modestly in a muslim country be virtuous - if she did it because if she didn't she'd be put in prison by the religous police?
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@megagagnon1 Not true about leftist at all... 1 I am a liberal, 2 I am living in a Leftist country right now. Example Cuba: They do sent Dr. all over the world treating the sick. I have seen them here. Fix you up send you off, no questions asked. Christian charities here don't do the same. I have seen them "help" others forcing many (if not all) to take their bible to Catholics or Indigenous. And virtue police look at US blue laws, Certain places can arrest in the US for selling porn, booze.
hank1972 1 year ago
@hank1972 That isn't indicative of all Christian charities, but their are problems. A Christian charity is going to spread the gospel of Christ, but the needs of people must be met in order to open hearts to be receptive. Forcing is always wrong, but asking questions is not. And if someone doesn't care to listen, they are still helped all the same. Meet the needs first and it can become to gateway into speaking about the the Gospel of Christ. How it is done is paramount.
RothdeMan 1 year ago
@RothdeMan I been up and down latin america and what i have seen is scares me. Mormons lying about their history about blacks, Evangelicals telling Indians that their dances are sins, Catholics forcing Indians to cover them selves and stop using their native wear. These cultures need to be left alone, they choose not join the modern times. It would be like me forcing the Amish to uses PCs. In Nicaragua most of natives have vanished. Compared to Panama where they flourish.
hank1972 1 year ago
@hank1972 Like I said, their is a difference between forcing and sharing something. Yes, many Christians have misstep or overstepped throughout history and even now, which has caused great harm to societies and to Christianity. Jesus never beat anyone over the head to accept or reject what he was teaching.
RothdeMan 1 year ago
@RothdeMan very well said my friend. I agree with you that on few things. Especially what you mentioned b4 about let them seek what ever religion they wish. Offer and let them make up their minds. And you are right about Jesus, not brow beating any 1 (may be the Rabbis) with his believes. He did just share his ideas to those who heard. I have often said the Jesus was a Jew 1st and Jews did not convert. See Atheist and Thiest can agree.
hank1972 1 year ago
@megagagnon1 @megagagnon1 Jesus really did not care of religion or taxes remember Mathew was a tax collector read Mark 2:14. I run a small biz and pay taxes at in US. with my work over seas, I play taxes here too (importing and some payroll)... does not compare. US is SO LOW, if I remember correctly highest about is 45% of top 2% of wage earners. Average americans pay 9%. most of the US never goes over 20% of taxes. Import taxes where I am runs 25-55% where i am.
hank1972 1 year ago
@megagagnon1 Yes, with charity, the intentions are more important to God than the charity itself. 1 Corinthians 13:3 "And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing." Meaning, as the bible says, God is a God of hearts. It is why with any person, the world can adore them for what they do, yet God can revile their works because He has seen their heart. Charity is something given and done of free will.
RothdeMan 1 year ago
@RothdeMan Exactly. Charity isn't excessive taxation in order to take care of the poor, charity is charitable organizations funded by people who voluntarily help other people.
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@hank1972 Being a Christian doesn't exempt any from having to live in the world. Hence the scripture of giving to Caesar what is his. Reality is still reality. That doesn't mean any and all taxes are right or supported, but the legit purpose still is what it is. Yet, the nature of man comes forth then as it does now with taking more than should be and using it for more than what it should be used for.
RothdeMan 1 year ago
@RothdeMan Another thing I have taken out of that quote is also to leave the state to do matters of the state. Yes not all taxes are legitimate, or right, but I enjoy the infrastructure like highways, nation parks, national defense, nation museum and so on. Taxes are a necessary evil in living in a society. I have yet to see a libertarian say "I hate taxes. so I will not use the interstate highways". " I would rather see my taxes pay for health care than out dated bombs" Jesse Ventura.
hank1972 1 year ago
Jesus said each man was free to sin as long as they judged others by the same standard they held for themselves thus freeing each person of the moral demands of others. No behavior that any of us do can be judged by others since we will only be judged by what we think is right or wrong. The standard of others will never apply to us.
timbosforporn 1 year ago
And on a side note: It is rather fascination how God is being forced out of everything in America by many of the same people that will then use the Gospel of Christ to try and foster a redistributive force under the distorted guise of helping.
RothdeMan 1 year ago
@RothdeMan They are using the same strategy that the NAZIs used which is to use christianity to bring about socialism. Hitler claimed to be a good christians and good christians, of course, are socialist.
timbosforporn 1 year ago
@timbosforporn A guise for Christians to defer personal responsibility and power over to the State.
RothdeMan 1 year ago
Lets assume that social justice is a part of the christian doctrine and it is the christian thing to do. This still does not obligate anyone to be a part of the social justice doctrine because people have the freedom of religion so this means a person can opt out of social justice if they choose to simply because they can choose whatever religion they want to be a part of.
timbosforporn 1 year ago
@timbosforporn : fair enough! But...if you call yourself a follower of Jesus. If you choose to follow Jesus, too, you cannot ignore the reality that a personal, VOLUNTARY submission to all aspects of that Way INCLUDES a deep concern for the poor.
What muddies the waters a little here is that Progressives see Government as "we the people" and that this means we the people can pool our resources and do more together to help the poor...together.
mowriter 1 year ago
@mowriter Well if followers of Jesus have to pool their resources together then what do the people who are not the follower of Jesus do? Why do they have to participate in this particular christian activity when their own religion tells them something different. I would think that their own God has more authority over their actions than Jesus or the Government does in that case.
timbosforporn 1 year ago
@timbosforporn Exactly! It's like I said before, if people want to get into how the Christian Church as a whole has dropped the ball, and thus allowed for this intrusion of government under the guise of help, then by all means proceed.
Yet, to try and do this via Government by force and then try and back it up by distorting scripture, that is a NO.
RothdeMan 1 year ago
@timbosforporn : non-followers of Jesus are welcome to benefit from the Christian ethic, without having to convert.
But as for govt., once again I am clarifying - the Bible doesn't mandate big govt. entitlement, but it DOES mandate hard work from ALL, and ETHICAL business from the wealthy. The ethical wealthy have NOTHING to fear from God; the rich who don't make money their God and who practice charity are also innocent.
mowriter 1 year ago
@mowriter That is a choice someone makes for themselves to help others. You said yourself that a christian is a socialist but the freedom of religion basically says I don't have to be a christian if I don't want to which means I don't have to participate in any christian ethic either in my personal or public life. Its a choice each individual makes for themselves and not a choice they make for others.
timbosforporn 1 year ago
Jesus NEVER preached Social Justice the way Progressives are trying to spin it. Charity comes from the heart of the individual, NOT forcing someone to give something to another and calling it "charity". No where in the Bible will you see Jesus endorsing Social Justice as the Redistribution of Wealth this administration and many of its supporters are pushing. That said, if you want to talk about the Church having dropped the ball on the responsibility as Christians, that is another story.
RothdeMan 1 year ago
@RothdeMan : Jesus preached Social justice through both the individual and the corporate acts of the collected Church.
Wallis is one such member of said Church, petitioning his government for a redress of grievances. Interpreting "we the people" to mean our Government is nothing but the collective will of us individuals. To relegate OUR tax money in ways that can help the poor. Nothing more.
mowriter 1 year ago
@mowriter Sorry, Wallis' definition of Social Justice is not what Jesus preached. Jesus never preached Redistribution of Wealth. He never preached forcing anyone's hand individually or through a collective power(i.e. the government) and then calling it charity.
RothdeMan 1 year ago
@RothdeMan : You misattribute Wallis's position. Jesus absolutely preached hope for the poor, and warnings to the rich.
It might be a leap, but that very basic premise sounds a LOT more like Progressive than Reactionary in this current culture, and a lot more like social justice than corporatist butt-kissing.
mowriter 1 year ago
@mowriter Might be a leap? That might be an understatement.
Jesus in talking of the rich warned them because being rich and being able to afford any and all earthly things can make a man believe that he does not need God or his earthly possessions are more important to him. That does not mean that being rich will keep one from God. Did Jesus force the rich young ruler in Luke 18:18-27? No. Redistribution of Wealth is not a choice, but force in the guise of what is falsely labeled charity.
RothdeMan 1 year ago
@RothdeMan : I agree, in part. The warnings against the Rich were twofold: that they had, in fact, made money their god, and that they had gained their wealth by exploiting their workers and outright theft.
I was thinking after my last comment about the simultaneous repentance of the TAX COLLECTOR, who promised to repay HIS stolen wealth. Integrity is for both the rich and the government, I fully acknowledge that. Jesus considered it salvation when the tax collector repented, too.
mowriter 1 year ago
@mowriter Another leap. "and that they had gained their wealth by exploiting their workers and outright theft." Are you suggesting that anyone whom is rich somehow stole it or exploited someone? Or that Jesus ever implied that? Integrity is for ALL.
Zacchaeus repented and repaid what he took. To try and marry this to Redistribution of Wealth is disingenuous because you attempt to punish everyone of means by and for actions of a government that has no money, but only the money of tax payers.
RothdeMan 1 year ago
@RothdeMan : Pro 22:22 Do not exploit the poor because they are poor and do not crush the needy in court,
Isa 58:3 'Why have we fasted,' they say, 'and you have not seen it? Why have we humbled ourselves, and you have not noticed?' "Yet on the day of your fasting, you do as you please and exploit all your workers.
Jam 2:6 But you have insulted the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court?
mowriter 1 year ago
James 5:1-4 Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming upon you. Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. Look! The wages you failed to pay the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty.
mowriter 1 year ago
@RothdeMan : You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter. You have condemned and murdered innocent men, who were not opposing you.
-------
Sorry, the only leap is thinking the Bible defends unethical business practices and economic terrorism. The wealthy who do not exploit their workers are not guilty.
mowriter 1 year ago
@mowriter Sorry, the leap is you acting as if every person whom is rich is some sort of villain. And then to try and marry that with businessman whom may or may not be corrupt, aided by a corrupt government. Yet, condemn them all the same. And then taut salvation for them through a collective work of a government which even if enacted would no more save them than you or I could, because God deals with the individual, not the collective.
A matter of the heart cannot be corrected externally.
RothdeMan 1 year ago
@RothdeMan : I have certainly not asserted that. I have asserted that ANY unethical wealth accumulation, govt. or private, calls for repentance. I have acknowledged the wrongdoing in government theft along with corporate theft, while you seem to have clarity of vision only against government.
MY point is not on govt. salvation, but what the Bible says. We can all do as we please, Bible notwithstanding. Or we can follow the Bible and REALLY vote the Bible - in regards to economics, too.
mowriter 1 year ago
Yes... there is a security net... problem is, for many "poor" it has become A HAMMOCK. Not a temporary aid. It becomes a lifestyle. I see it all over my neighborhood. People in their 20's WHO DON'T WORK. They scam the system. It's all over the place. I can't find a parking place where I live during the day... everyone is home watching TV or doing porn. And "poor people" why are they poor? Don't they want to do what is necessary to actually be employable? MANY DON'T. Poverty is sometimes a CHOICE
laughingtiger123 1 year ago
You need to actually READ the bible. Jesus spoke of helping people through CHARITY... GIVING. Not the liberal idea of taxing (taking money by force) and redistributing wealth. Since you don't know history, nor read anything (like a liberal), Social Justice is a term Karl Marx developed. I thought you were about "hey, DON'T JUDGE ME!", right? Justice is not taking from the EARNERS and giving to the NON-EARNERS (out of CHOICE). That's called THEFT.
laughingtiger123 1 year ago
So when the poor is losing their jobs and get evicted, they should not have a security net that will give them healthcare and roof over their heads?
If noone is there to bother helping them out, let them starve and die on the street?
What you are advocating here is merely a dictatorship with a Laisse Faire policy. And this government is easily bought by the rich so they can suppress the poor and keep them ignorant.
I think you do not know very well what liberty or constitution is all about.
bohemianwriter1 1 year ago
@sushi08241982
I think "turn the other cheek" pretty well summens up his pasifism.
If I understand you correctly: You are defending the rich man towards the poor in the name of Jesus. You know who have collected taxes since dinosaurs ate people for breakfast? The Church! The Christian Church have demanded taxes in the name of their Lord!
I other words: The Christian Church have committed theft as long as it has been in power. I think it's time it repaid for this and its empty promises!
bohemianwriter1 1 year ago
So are you against taxes of all kind?
Are you against the wars that Bush waged in 2001 and 2003 for your tax dollars?
Are you against the corporate welfare that have been given at the expence of the poor? Truth is, that we have been living under something that resembles a tyranny the past 2000 years! Taxes have always been collected! Taxes have been collected in order to fight religious wars.
If you were a true follower of Jesus, you would have give away all your riches now & become pasifist
bohemianwriter1 1 year ago
@sushi08241982
So you are for social injustice?
Tell you what: the rich don't become rich from purely their own work! They get rich from mostly other peoples' labor.
Question: What would you do about poverty?
Maybe you rooted for Prince John, and booing Robin Hood then, eh?
bohemianwriter1 1 year ago
Beck = JIm Jones
studape 1 year ago
Forced charity is not charity plain and simple. You give because it is right, you don't take from one and give to another because you want to. The fact that people like Olbermann still can't see the difference doesn't make Beck wrong.
darkknight0072004 1 year ago