I think the CLF guy is a beginner and the mantis guy is at the master level. If not, this was just a performance to show how to apply mantis techniques as the actions of CLF guy moved very slowly, he tried to lay open and left himself for an attack. Anyway I like both styles.
I HAD THE PLEASURE OF BEING ONE OF HIS STUDENT IN THE LATE 60S TO EARLY 70S HE WAS YOUNGER AND VERY STRONG, YET VERY SUPPLE. BUT THAN AGAIN THAT IS WHAT A TRUE MASTER OF GUNG-FU, IS ALL ABOUT.
Amazing master, amazing to see such a great skill, now this is real, you can see he does Chow gar in every single move. I love this cind of masters where they really show how a style should be preformed. And now we can see that the old 70's kung fu movies are not far behind the truth. I wish there were a wing chun shifu like this in a old fotoge, that can dominante and preform and still keeping his confidence and style where you can just watch and be amazed.
this is a great video :) noone should be offended i do choy lee fut . its a master of southern praying mantis and a student testing his kungfu. both kungfu styles are complete martial arts featuring striking kicking throwing and felling as well as chi kung and other force training methods philosophy meditation specialized skills weapons fighting and evasion tactics. as well as much much more :) both are great choy lee fut is better for fighting several opponents at once though
This CLF guy should get his money back . He has no understanding of fighting. He should stick to forms. Sadly many martial artist don't understand fighting.
i study weng chun, the complete version of the original wing chun. There is 4 forms instead of 3. The forth form was lost after leung jan or it was not taught to him. The forth form incorporated kicks which yip man learnt from chu chong man after losing to him.
@RagingUtai AFAIK "original" Wing Chun has 6 forms, not 3...
3 Empty Handed forms: Siu Nim Tao, Chum Kiu & Biu Tze.
1 Wooden Dummy form: Mook Yan Jong
and
2 Weapon forms: Baat Jaam Do (Butterfly Knives) & Luk Dim Boon Kwun (Long pole)
If you are only referring to the empty handed forms, then don't mind my comment - you are right then. To me Wing Chun just isn't complete with out the 2 weapon forms and especially the wooden dummy form.
@RagingUtai OK, I never heard of that before :) My martial experience is limited, and I only have knowledge from 1 school and 1 teacher. Over the years I'll hopefully achieve even more insight in different variations of Wing Chun and in other arts as well...
Make sure u read about yuen kay san wing chun. Yuen kay san was the best wing chun master, superior to even yip man. When ever there was a challenge or fight of styles, yuen kay fought for wing chun, not yip man.
@RagingUtai Thank you, I'll look in to it. If you have any sources about the style of Yuen Kay-san's Wing Chun, please link it in a response - I only seemed to find a short bio of the man, not an awful lot on his style.
Obviously this is a demo as both masters are holding back. The CLF guy seems to be testing to see what the spm master will do when confronted by certain patterns as he is not being overly aggressive in his attacks(possibly because they are likely to injure each other).
The story i heard Bruce was introduce to master Gin and Bruce watched a class but there was nothing really of it. So it might as well been a one time thing
From what I understand Master Mark whipped Bruce's butt like he was his daddy, too. Bruce wanted to move Master Mark out to California to serve as a technical advisor for his movies, but Master Mark did not want to leave NY.
@glcep ,If you are going tell the story tell it right.First of all Bruce never met Gin foon mark.Thats story was only a story to capitalize off of Bruce's fame.Bruce Southern Mantis teacher was Fook Yeung who still lives in seattle today well into his 90s.
@shengchenfan What about the Dragon and The Tiger The Birth Of Jeet Kune Do written by Sid Campbell and Greglon Lee. theres like 10 pages in there of Master Mark?
@art123abc Its a really good story,But its not true,Because Bruce first student said that all the Southern Mantis that Bruce learned was from Fook Young,Robert Lee (Bruce's Brother) said that the Last time that Bruce saw his father was in Hong Kong before coming to the U.S and didn't see him again until 63
@shengchenfan ,I'm not bashing Mark Sifu,I have nothing but respect for him.The only time that Bruce went to New York was years later to promote Green Hornet.This was how the story was broke down to me and these guy knew Bruce too,I'm not saying Greg is lying,I'm met him 3 times good man but he was a little kid back then.
Cool I was just wondering. I don't know Bruce Lees history very well. Maybe they met at some point or he visited the school I don't know I wasn't there. Si fu says that they met and that he learned for a lil bit like a month or so...I guess he could be lying? either way interesting stuff. Do you know or have you heard any stories if Bruce lee ever met Lam Sang?
First of all I could could really care less.And really don't care.I just practice my art of the best of my ability to give a shit about someone else do the same.Done!
The ultimate style will be your own style, a universal momentum.....meditate, then do some breathing excercises, tai chi gong, whatever works for you, then try shrooms, and practice...You'll understand..... I'm not kidding, try it...
I very much dislike this Gin Foon Mark guy, I also visited his school once and studied there for a while but soon turned out he is making claims that are not true. I did some investigation and turned out he is NOT even the 5th generation master as he claims it, it is just his self proclamation. He has NEVER been selected to be the inheritor by his master Lam Wing Fay. He is a FAKE!!! Good skills but too many crap surrounds him.
all the students that are in the 2nd group picture with lam sang, gin foon mark, chuck chin, chin ho dune and I forget the others names. they are all 5th generation masters, when master mark says he is the 5th generation master he means that none of the others are teaching openly or they are deceased.
But you are right lam sang never directly picked him as the only 5th generation sucessor.
he picked 3 groups? so all these masters would be considered 5th generation masters! how many are building the art right now? how many have built the art as long as master mark or longer openly to the public?
Yeah, when I learned from him he said he is the ONLY 5th generation master of this art. No question he has done a lot for this art but he still was never selected as the single inheritor of this art. I liked his style but too much garbage around him - most of it he created himself - so I left in disappointment and will never go back there. He was always bad mouthing about other fellow students - such as H. Poo Ye so Gin Foon M. wasn't my ideal martial arts instructor.
I know there are certainly other S. Mantis masters who have been teaching S. Mantis for generations (like one of my old teachers learnt from his father and his grandfather).
By the way the story Gin F. M. told us about this CLF instructor is that he challenged the guy on a demonstration and told him that if he wins the challenge him and all his student will become Gin F. M.'s students. Of course, look at the difference, the CLF guy is just a kid compared to GFM so bid deal. Instead of helping him to advance, he beats up the kid. Pretty shameful!!!!!
I just called him! The clf guy wanted to play hands with sifu so they played hands and sifu came out on top so the clf student begin learning under Master Mark. Sifu mark says "he doesnt like to hit people, because he says he doesnt want to hurt people because they could always come back for revenge too. What goes around comes around. I've seen other videos of the clf guy and to me it looks like Master Mark has helped him out.
Well, again, he tells different stories adjusting to what makes him look the best. So again, who cares. He tells you different stories, he told us different ones and probably tells yet another version to someone else. BS!! Oh, also when we asked him why he moved to Minnesota, he told us because his wife had a heart problem and Minnesota had a good heart clinic. 2 years later on a dinner a new student asked him the same ? He said a former student invited him there because no good kung fu in MN.;)
I think you need to take into consideration the fact that his English is not the greatest, so not only is he hard to understand sometimes, but he also has a very hard time understanding others. There are many times he just acts like he understands a question or statement because it is easier than trying to get people to explain things to him in an understandable way. Many things are just impossible to explain to him no matter how hard you try.
I really don't believe we misunderstood him. Even with his broken English we did get that he walked up to the guy after his demonstration and told him that if he beats him, Gin Foon Mark will become his instructor and will take over his school too.
And if you say we might misunderstand his English, how can you be sure that YOU don't? Why are you saying things here when you also might not be sure that what he told you is what he really wanted to say - especially through a telephone?
I've been around him almost every weekday for a couple of years now and have talked to him and observed him talking to others enough to have a pretty good idea of his general character. I have seen too many people come down to his school and show up for maybe two classes a week for a month or two and then smudge his character online. Someone who actually takes the time to really get to know someone before flaming them online wouldn't bother with something so petty in the first place. GROW UP!
Well, once again, I have to disappoint you DW. I also attended classes nearly every day for over 2 years including kung fu, chi kung, lion dancing and acupuncture. I also though beginner classes there, I had my own key to the school and ran it when he was away. I almost even lived there too. I think I too have a pretty good understanding of him. So don't start that you know more than everyone else. I don't want to start a fight just telling my experiences.
It is true that neither of us has any way of proving that each of our perspectives is more valid than the other's, however the difference between us is that I don't post incriminating comments on other people's videos based on that unprovable perspective.
And since you refused to give a name along with your insults or in the PM you sent me, that makes you a troll. Any further negative comments from you without a name will get you banned.
DW you're getting angry for no reason. You haven't given me your name first so how can you ask for mine?
I am not posting insults just the truth: 1) Gin Foon Mark is NOT the only 5th generation master as he claims it on his website (under linage page) 2)what he told us about this video. If you don't believe that than you're very shallow. I have studied under GFM many years before you and have seen a much bigger picture. Don't believe me, what do I care? I'm not the one who will get hurt.
I must be looking at a differrnt vid. I don't see any great mastery. I see one person with minimal skill, and no concept or understanding of fighting against someone that's a lot better. This a very poor way of showing how effective an art is suppose to be. If both players were skilled then it would be worth while vid. A poor demonstration of both arts. I believe any good fighter or martial artis should be able to recognize a skilled fighter when they see one. Obviously I am wrong.
If both fighters were "skilled" it would still just be a demo. This isn't a match-up of personal skills, it's only a representation of what the style looks like.
Oh, and even though those guys in those Jackie Chan are good examples of CLF they are not the only example. CLF can get in close like wing chun. They also have a lot of palm forms too. With the avance forms, the practishiners barely touches the floor, which dont look like the CLF you think you know. So don't get ittwisted... Those guys in the movies are basic at best.
I'm a CLF man and even though CLF is vass in its number of styles and techniques they all move the same way: with their hips. This is not CLF. I know SPM techniques and thats what I see here. I know of a few guys that have cross over from NPM to SPM and I see why. Don't get me wrong most people I know have busted a lot of jockas with NPM including me. I just like SPM more.
The guy wearing the red sash studied CLF before... and then played hands with Sifu and liked his hands, then begin learning SPM under master mark! some of the attacks in the demonstration look like CLF but most of them are SPM.
great! its funny but this looks like closed door ving tsun. i know its mantis but, the execution and premise for the tech. is virtually the same. i would guess that in closed circles at the tea and dumpling house is where all the good masters of kung fu hung out and traded insights and kung fu life. so, even though this is an exhibition of free sparring, i can see the realness of the kung fu. thanks for the vid, puts things in perspective!
Would it be possible to visit this temple and perhaps learn or witness the style at its purest? I love mantis kung fu and would jump at the chance to visit this temple
i dont know, master mark has super dim mak chi powers but, sub zero could freeze yo ass and goro if he gets a hold of you youre done! it would be a good match
no son. goro has to many arms and is a half dragon while subzero can freeze you in your tracks. but as far as good kung fu goes i think that hes got them beat anyday of the week.
The guy wearing the red sash studied CLF before... and then played hands with Sifu and liked his hands, then begin learning SPM under master mark! some of the attacks in the demonstration look like CLF but most of them are SPM.
yes you´re right, the asian guy on the jackie chan movie. He´s a good example of CLF long range arm techniques.
Regarding this video, you can tell it´s not CLF because of short range attacks, without a sideways fighting stance (such as CLF or regular boxing), lots of open palm techniques (while most CLF is closed fist).
I don´t know the styles used by these fighters, but they look southern, remind me of wing chun (wich is awesome).
the slow guy isn´t doing choy lee fut. For real choy lee fut, check out the jackie chan movie "who am I". The two guys he fights at the roof top are doing choy lee fut.
Wing Chun And Praying Mantis are alike they both build up powerful forearms. But there is a different from choy li fut its slower trust ME.. by the time CLF has punched the wingchun and prayin mantis has intercepted and damaged has been done.
southern is a great style in happy just to see it and even more happy to see gin foon mark he a real master, its simaler becouse theres short range moves and traoing like in wing chun , i study redboat wing chun and redboat hung gar
A lot of people say that preying mantis(shaolin)is similiar to wing chun but I don't think so.Other than the preying mantis fist and the movements that goes with it(advanced preying mantis form)it's regular movenents go out of the centerline and the footwork isnt close range.There is wide stepping in Shaolin Preying Mantis.
I do Hung Sing Choy li Fut and this doesn't bother me, it's a demo to see how the moves work against other styles. Choy Li Fut is executed with far more speed and power than that and dosesn't stop and wait for his attacker to hit, just like Jook Lum Tong long Pai. The demostation of ciber fu was very powerful too.
good vid... i practice choy lee fut and i dont think that was a very experimented choy lee fut student but still the mantis guy managed to do great counter attacks and very fast.. nice :)
hey!!!! I like chow gar , I like all kinds of kung fu and fighting. You dont like master mark than thats fine! I ve learned alot from him and respect him greatly.
gow gar supreme if you train properly .not a lot of people can really comment .sifu's brennan,withrod,hang Ng,NCK,Lee teen toi(a-loi) ip chee keung .If you're outside this circle you should shut the fuck up .Because you know inside you got fuck all. like the sheriff of Knottingham forest of something a wanker .Keeep training son
always"this martial art vs. that martial art" all I ever see is one superior fighter vs. one inferior fighter;the superior fighter is always promoted by his students to show "their Art" is better than the other one.
GFM was taking it easy on the CLF fellah really easy, i been studying spm from GFM lineage him and his nephew really streamlined the spm for technique he really made it more practical, He also mastered the Fu jou pi ( excuse the spelling)
He surrely mastered the Praying Mantis technics, that´s the difference, it´s nice to see traditional kung-fu in action istead of kickboxing and sansho
HEY GUYS!!!!!!!!!! We are here to show and see arts and how they are practiced - maybe even show respect for our arts! How are we doing that by name calling? We all have opinions - let's move on - play nice - DC1
I don't see where I typed "this is an actual fight". There is a difference between a "demonstration" and a "rehearsed" set of attacks and counters. As mentioned in the description, this video is only a demonstration. But, I guess I can't argue with someone who refuses to look at the whole picture and who's only method of arguing is ad hominem attacks. This video was never ment as a diss to your precious CLF so grow the fuck up!
Ok fine, it's on. Does DW stand for DumbWit? You're delusional. I never made a challenge, I said anyone can make a video of 1 style vs. another, you made the rest up yourself.
You must train with this master or you wouldn't be getting your panties in a bunch. Anybody who knows anything about old school challenges knows they are to the death and hence, NOT made anymore. Any wise student also knows that they should never make challenges for their master because of the aforementioned. Nuff said.
"DumbWit"? "Panties in a bunch"? ...Very clever. I hope for your sake that you are no older than 15.
Who ever said anything about "old school" challenges and what makes you an expert on such a thing, huh "wise student"? My telling you to challenge Gin Foon Mark had nothing to do with what I thought he would actually agree to, nor what I thought you would be willing to do, so don't flatter yourself. It shouldn't be that difficult to figure out what I was intending to illustrate.
Wow, you truly are delusional. Who knew your IQ only had 2 digits in it? You clearly have no discernable skills in communication so I'm just going to leave it at that. You clearly live in your own little world with a blanket to keep you warm and sucking your thumb. Nice life.
DW, funny how you read into it and deduced things that I didn't say. What challenge? There wasn't one.
I'm not saying the Master isn't great, I'm sure he is, I merely said that it was rehearsed and not an actual sparring match or real fight. There are plenty of videos of CLF against other arts that are just as rehearsed. So... as always, don't believe everything you see in the movies.
You are obviously old enough to spell, so you should also be familiar enough with the concept of using passive words in an ill spirited way to know that it is a very weak net to fall back on when called on your bullshit.
He is almost 80 now, but he still would probably accept your challenge if you think he's a fake. Do you want me to give you the adress of his school, or do you just critique the skills of masters for the sake of your ego?
Looking at this again, this reminds me that all the internal martial arts, northern or southern, seem to fight in exactly the same way and have very, very similar techniques. Nice video.
if any of you ever get the chance to train with master mark, do it! One of the funniest people Ive ever meet. great personality, excellent artist all around!
Very nice southern style gongfu. Smooth. The only problem I have with southern styles is only to do with language - the terminology is seldom standardised, and is often in Cantonese, idiosyncratically transliterated. Still, the styles themselves are good.
I can read in Chinese. But the vast majority of gongfu books I can get hold of are transliterated only, and with southern styles, that's a problem, because I don't understand Cantonese. And you end up with names like "chair pie", and "jic gerk", which are not good at all linguistically.
@GGAllinIsGod fa jing creating or exploding energy. chern [sp?] ging is inch power.kung lik , yum lik, there many forms of expressing power. short bursts are southern kung fu specialty. he's pulling back because he doesn't want to hit him.
i agree with clf devil i am also a student of Choy Li fut and both systems are very good in practice. but to say that one martial art is better than the other is stupid and people who say these things clearly do not know the true meaning of martial arts
You just don't know what to look for. Good fighting is all about the subtleties. It's never as simple as "A" technique against "B" attack equals "C" result.
I've only met the man once and have a painting of his, to watch him in action is awe inspiring, and extremely rare. I love that you can clearly see the phoenix eye
SPM is an arm centric style really, Chow Gar SPM only uses low kicks to hip knee ankle etc. Its a close in style that aims to trap break and tear by controling your opponents movement, long kicks are counter to that. Hope thats helpful.
finally a decent gin foon mark demo ty dw3041, been studying his stuff for a few years, imo his interpretation of the spm. All you need is the 4 point arrow and youll see a big diff, but to get good you need a partner to practice techniques then you get really good
My instructer reffered to the form as being the 4 point arrow .which was the second form jimmy (Gin Foon Marks's nephew) taught. Ive seen alot of diferent variations on the form in the smp schools but 4 point arrow is the more effective version gives you that inside power...alot of schools skip the step that grants with pracitce extreeme hand speed :)
I think the CLF guy is a beginner and the mantis guy is at the master level. If not, this was just a performance to show how to apply mantis techniques as the actions of CLF guy moved very slowly, he tried to lay open and left himself for an attack. Anyway I like both styles.
choilifay 2 weeks ago
I HAD THE PLEASURE OF BEING ONE OF HIS STUDENT IN THE LATE 60S TO EARLY 70S HE WAS YOUNGER AND VERY STRONG, YET VERY SUPPLE. BUT THAN AGAIN THAT IS WHAT A TRUE MASTER OF GUNG-FU, IS ALL ABOUT.
sifuMusse 2 months ago
Amazing master, amazing to see such a great skill, now this is real, you can see he does Chow gar in every single move. I love this cind of masters where they really show how a style should be preformed. And now we can see that the old 70's kung fu movies are not far behind the truth. I wish there were a wing chun shifu like this in a old fotoge, that can dominante and preform and still keeping his confidence and style where you can just watch and be amazed.
shiifu 5 months ago 3
@shiifu , I saw your video on your channel, was that Wing Chun and if so? what branch? it looks real good and effective.
WingChunLova 3 months ago
oh when i said felling its the same as throwing but more inclusive what i meant was grappling! (both standing and ground fighting wise)
yizhichanlohan 9 months ago
and of course the grabbing is much more technically advanced in southern praying mantis.
yizhichanlohan 9 months ago
this is a great video :) noone should be offended i do choy lee fut . its a master of southern praying mantis and a student testing his kungfu. both kungfu styles are complete martial arts featuring striking kicking throwing and felling as well as chi kung and other force training methods philosophy meditation specialized skills weapons fighting and evasion tactics. as well as much much more :) both are great choy lee fut is better for fighting several opponents at once though
yizhichanlohan 9 months ago 2
This CLF guy should get his money back . He has no understanding of fighting. He should stick to forms. Sadly many martial artist don't understand fighting.
xianwuxing 11 months ago
i study weng chun, the complete version of the original wing chun. There is 4 forms instead of 3. The forth form was lost after leung jan or it was not taught to him. The forth form incorporated kicks which yip man learnt from chu chong man after losing to him.
RagingUtai 1 year ago
@RagingUtai AFAIK "original" Wing Chun has 6 forms, not 3...
3 Empty Handed forms: Siu Nim Tao, Chum Kiu & Biu Tze.
1 Wooden Dummy form: Mook Yan Jong
and
2 Weapon forms: Baat Jaam Do (Butterfly Knives) & Luk Dim Boon Kwun (Long pole)
If you are only referring to the empty handed forms, then don't mind my comment - you are right then. To me Wing Chun just isn't complete with out the 2 weapon forms and especially the wooden dummy form.
berg89dk 1 year ago
@berg89dk
there was a 4th empty hand form that mastered kicking defense and attacksand encorporated the first 3 forms togther.
RagingUtai 1 year ago
@RagingUtai OK, I never heard of that before :) My martial experience is limited, and I only have knowledge from 1 school and 1 teacher. Over the years I'll hopefully achieve even more insight in different variations of Wing Chun and in other arts as well...
Thank you for your reply.
berg89dk 1 year ago
@berg89dk
Make sure u read about yuen kay san wing chun. Yuen kay san was the best wing chun master, superior to even yip man. When ever there was a challenge or fight of styles, yuen kay fought for wing chun, not yip man.
RagingUtai 1 year ago
@RagingUtai Thank you, I'll look in to it. If you have any sources about the style of Yuen Kay-san's Wing Chun, please link it in a response - I only seemed to find a short bio of the man, not an awful lot on his style.
berg89dk 1 year ago
Bruce Lee did in fact train with Gin Foon Mark for a brief moment while visiting his father in new york.
monsieursparks 1 year ago
Obviously this is a demo as both masters are holding back. The CLF guy seems to be testing to see what the spm master will do when confronted by certain patterns as he is not being overly aggressive in his attacks(possibly because they are likely to injure each other).
SecretSword 1 year ago 2
冷块绝伦神鬼怕！That is some good kungfu!
GOG777 1 year ago 2
The story i heard Bruce was introduce to master Gin and Bruce watched a class but there was nothing really of it. So it might as well been a one time thing
jetlee357 2 years ago 2
Kung fu Magazine 1999 tells about Bruce Lee training under Gin Foon Mark and has a picture of Bruce sitting with his students in student posture.
ShaolinConcepts 2 years ago
this is great footage indeed, great to see,
taijihitman 2 years ago
From what I understand Master Mark whipped Bruce's butt like he was his daddy, too. Bruce wanted to move Master Mark out to California to serve as a technical advisor for his movies, but Master Mark did not want to leave NY.
glcep 2 years ago 2
@glcep ,If you are going tell the story tell it right.First of all Bruce never met Gin foon mark.Thats story was only a story to capitalize off of Bruce's fame.Bruce Southern Mantis teacher was Fook Yeung who still lives in seattle today well into his 90s.
shengchenfan 2 years ago
@shengchenfan What about the Dragon and The Tiger The Birth Of Jeet Kune Do written by Sid Campbell and Greglon Lee. theres like 10 pages in there of Master Mark?
art123abc 2 years ago
@art123abc Its a really good story,But its not true,Because Bruce first student said that all the Southern Mantis that Bruce learned was from Fook Young,Robert Lee (Bruce's Brother) said that the Last time that Bruce saw his father was in Hong Kong before coming to the U.S and didn't see him again until 63
shengchenfan 2 years ago
@shengchenfan ,I'm not bashing Mark Sifu,I have nothing but respect for him.The only time that Bruce went to New York was years later to promote Green Hornet.This was how the story was broke down to me and these guy knew Bruce too,I'm not saying Greg is lying,I'm met him 3 times good man but he was a little kid back then.
shengchenfan 2 years ago
Cool I was just wondering. I don't know Bruce Lees history very well. Maybe they met at some point or he visited the school I don't know I wasn't there. Si fu says that they met and that he learned for a lil bit like a month or so...I guess he could be lying? either way interesting stuff. Do you know or have you heard any stories if Bruce lee ever met Lam Sang?
much respect!
art123abc 2 years ago
I'm not sure if he did.
shengchenfan 2 years ago
Comment removed
TheChiFlows 2 years ago
First of all I could could really care less.And really don't care.I just practice my art of the best of my ability to give a shit about someone else do the same.Done!
shengchenfan 2 years ago
Comment removed
TheChiFlows 2 years ago
No disrespect,I'm cool.I have nothing but respect for Grandmaster Mark.
shengchenfan 2 years ago
Awesome to see two different styles demonstrated together.
SilientShadow 2 years ago
SPM is a beautiful and elegant style.
WingChunLova 2 years ago
but jin foon mark ???
paciuco2000 2 years ago
This guy reacts very well to his opponent, I like his hand and foot technique. Reminds me of my former Sifu.
dhh488 2 years ago
Your an Idiot If you take shrooms
kitlosis 2 years ago
The ultimate style will be your own style, a universal momentum.....meditate, then do some breathing excercises, tai chi gong, whatever works for you, then try shrooms, and practice...You'll understand..... I'm not kidding, try it...
seraphim9669 3 years ago
this video has nothing to do with choi li fut. just ignore that guy, he's obviously just playing uke for gin foon mark.
Marumasa 3 years ago
There is no CLF here!
Stick3x 3 years ago
that's freakin cool.
matreyia 3 years ago
how is that choy lay fut? i didnt see anything resembling CLF at all
CamjonesJnr 3 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
choy li fut dumass theres a difference
MMOFreek 3 years ago
its the same thing, is jus the way ppl spell it
SeiFeiZ 3 years ago 5
MMOFreek: WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU KNOW ABOUT CHOY LI FUT? ITS WRITTEN IN DIFFERENT WAYS BUT SAID THE SAME IN CANTONESE YOU DUMB SHIT!
lilmo695 2 years ago
ALL CAPITALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
MyCrownOfWorms 2 years ago
Wow, the gentleman in black also looks like a hsing yi master. I saw alot of 5 elements within his tactics. Nice video.
hsingstye 3 years ago
HAPPY BIRTHDAY SIFU!!!
:}
art123abc 3 years ago
By that I meant Leung Ting
WingChunLova 3 years ago
thanks
art123abc 3 years ago
Was this video taken in Gin Foon Mark's new york school?
nirpal24 3 years ago
love ya mark...rita song
ELECTRICSHAMAN13 3 years ago
I very much dislike this Gin Foon Mark guy, I also visited his school once and studied there for a while but soon turned out he is making claims that are not true. I did some investigation and turned out he is NOT even the 5th generation master as he claims it, it is just his self proclamation. He has NEVER been selected to be the inheritor by his master Lam Wing Fay. He is a FAKE!!! Good skills but too many crap surrounds him.
blade0817 3 years ago
GFM never claimed to be the only successor. He's just the only one who openly taught and spread the style.
dw3041 3 years ago
all the students that are in the 2nd group picture with lam sang, gin foon mark, chuck chin, chin ho dune and I forget the others names. they are all 5th generation masters, when master mark says he is the 5th generation master he means that none of the others are teaching openly or they are deceased.
art123abc 3 years ago
But you are right lam sang never directly picked him as the only 5th generation sucessor.
he picked 3 groups? so all these masters would be considered 5th generation masters! how many are building the art right now? how many have built the art as long as master mark or longer openly to the public?
art123abc 3 years ago
Fella you are full of shit.
onemindonespirit 3 years ago
well... what is the story then? this is just what i have researched and gathered.
art123abc 3 years ago
Yeah, when I learned from him he said he is the ONLY 5th generation master of this art. No question he has done a lot for this art but he still was never selected as the single inheritor of this art. I liked his style but too much garbage around him - most of it he created himself - so I left in disappointment and will never go back there. He was always bad mouthing about other fellow students - such as H. Poo Ye so Gin Foon M. wasn't my ideal martial arts instructor.
blade0817 3 years ago
I didnt know about that.
I know there are certainly other S. Mantis masters who have been teaching S. Mantis for generations (like one of my old teachers learnt from his father and his grandfather).
I'm sure there are many others.
Jenfucius 3 years ago
By the way the story Gin F. M. told us about this CLF instructor is that he challenged the guy on a demonstration and told him that if he wins the challenge him and all his student will become Gin F. M.'s students. Of course, look at the difference, the CLF guy is just a kid compared to GFM so bid deal. Instead of helping him to advance, he beats up the kid. Pretty shameful!!!!!
blade0817 3 years ago
I just called him! The clf guy wanted to play hands with sifu so they played hands and sifu came out on top so the clf student begin learning under Master Mark. Sifu mark says "he doesnt like to hit people, because he says he doesnt want to hurt people because they could always come back for revenge too. What goes around comes around. I've seen other videos of the clf guy and to me it looks like Master Mark has helped him out.
art123abc 3 years ago
Well, again, he tells different stories adjusting to what makes him look the best. So again, who cares. He tells you different stories, he told us different ones and probably tells yet another version to someone else. BS!! Oh, also when we asked him why he moved to Minnesota, he told us because his wife had a heart problem and Minnesota had a good heart clinic. 2 years later on a dinner a new student asked him the same ? He said a former student invited him there because no good kung fu in MN.;)
blade0817 3 years ago
I think you need to take into consideration the fact that his English is not the greatest, so not only is he hard to understand sometimes, but he also has a very hard time understanding others. There are many times he just acts like he understands a question or statement because it is easier than trying to get people to explain things to him in an understandable way. Many things are just impossible to explain to him no matter how hard you try.
dw3041 3 years ago
I really don't believe we misunderstood him. Even with his broken English we did get that he walked up to the guy after his demonstration and told him that if he beats him, Gin Foon Mark will become his instructor and will take over his school too.
And if you say we might misunderstand his English, how can you be sure that YOU don't? Why are you saying things here when you also might not be sure that what he told you is what he really wanted to say - especially through a telephone?
blade0817 3 years ago
I've been around him almost every weekday for a couple of years now and have talked to him and observed him talking to others enough to have a pretty good idea of his general character. I have seen too many people come down to his school and show up for maybe two classes a week for a month or two and then smudge his character online. Someone who actually takes the time to really get to know someone before flaming them online wouldn't bother with something so petty in the first place. GROW UP!
dw3041 3 years ago
Well, once again, I have to disappoint you DW. I also attended classes nearly every day for over 2 years including kung fu, chi kung, lion dancing and acupuncture. I also though beginner classes there, I had my own key to the school and ran it when he was away. I almost even lived there too. I think I too have a pretty good understanding of him. So don't start that you know more than everyone else. I don't want to start a fight just telling my experiences.
blade0817 3 years ago
Message me with your name if this is true. Otherwise find somewhere else to troll.
dw3041 3 years ago
Every single letter is to the truth, I'm not here to 'troll'. Why would I? I have absolutely no reason for that. I will send you a PM.
blade0817 3 years ago
It is true that neither of us has any way of proving that each of our perspectives is more valid than the other's, however the difference between us is that I don't post incriminating comments on other people's videos based on that unprovable perspective.
And since you refused to give a name along with your insults or in the PM you sent me, that makes you a troll. Any further negative comments from you without a name will get you banned.
dw3041 3 years ago
DW you're getting angry for no reason. You haven't given me your name first so how can you ask for mine?
I am not posting insults just the truth: 1) Gin Foon Mark is NOT the only 5th generation master as he claims it on his website (under linage page) 2)what he told us about this video. If you don't believe that than you're very shallow. I have studied under GFM many years before you and have seen a much bigger picture. Don't believe me, what do I care? I'm not the one who will get hurt.
blade0817 3 years ago
Obviously you are...
Hamking1 3 years ago
I must be looking at a differrnt vid. I don't see any great mastery. I see one person with minimal skill, and no concept or understanding of fighting against someone that's a lot better. This a very poor way of showing how effective an art is suppose to be. If both players were skilled then it would be worth while vid. A poor demonstration of both arts. I believe any good fighter or martial artis should be able to recognize a skilled fighter when they see one. Obviously I am wrong.
xianwuxing 3 years ago
Who would you recommend that is a skilled fighter?
art123abc 3 years ago
If both fighters were "skilled" it would still just be a demo. This isn't a match-up of personal skills, it's only a representation of what the style looks like.
dw3041 3 years ago
Oh, and even though those guys in those Jackie Chan are good examples of CLF they are not the only example. CLF can get in close like wing chun. They also have a lot of palm forms too. With the avance forms, the practishiners barely touches the floor, which dont look like the CLF you think you know. So don't get ittwisted... Those guys in the movies are basic at best.
TheKemian 4 years ago
I'm a CLF man and even though CLF is vass in its number of styles and techniques they all move the same way: with their hips. This is not CLF. I know SPM techniques and thats what I see here. I know of a few guys that have cross over from NPM to SPM and I see why. Don't get me wrong most people I know have busted a lot of jockas with NPM including me. I just like SPM more.
TheKemian 4 years ago
The guy wearing the red sash studied CLF before... and then played hands with Sifu and liked his hands, then begin learning SPM under master mark! some of the attacks in the demonstration look like CLF but most of them are SPM.
art123abc 4 years ago
Yeah I noticed some of the blocks and panther strikes from CLF. But It's all good and looks good combine:)
TheKemian 3 years ago
great! its funny but this looks like closed door ving tsun. i know its mantis but, the execution and premise for the tech. is virtually the same. i would guess that in closed circles at the tea and dumpling house is where all the good masters of kung fu hung out and traded insights and kung fu life. so, even though this is an exhibition of free sparring, i can see the realness of the kung fu. thanks for the vid, puts things in perspective!
opticannon 4 years ago
I can't say what style the guy with red sash is doing. Clearly the student here.
The guy with white shoes is doing a Hak Gar style of some kind. May be a form of southern praying mantis but NOT Chow family. Possibly even Pak Mei?
henh32 4 years ago
The guy you are referring to is Jook Lum Southern Mantis master Gin Foon Mark.
The style you are observing is Jook Lum Pai
Southern Praying Mantis from the Jook Lum Temple
located in Kwong Sai province-China.
digitalbill64 4 years ago
Thanks.
henh32 4 years ago
Would it be possible to visit this temple and perhaps learn or witness the style at its purest? I love mantis kung fu and would jump at the chance to visit this temple
jiujitsuboy 4 years ago
Gin Foon Mark's school is in Minneapolis Minnesota.
tuchin101 4 years ago
It's in Maplewood, MN now.
dw3041 4 years ago
Could they beat Goro or Subzero???
icuaranta 4 years ago
i dont know, master mark has super dim mak chi powers but, sub zero could freeze yo ass and goro if he gets a hold of you youre done! it would be a good match
art123abc 4 years ago
no son. goro has to many arms and is a half dragon while subzero can freeze you in your tracks. but as far as good kung fu goes i think that hes got them beat anyday of the week.
opticannon 4 years ago
The guy wearing the red sash studied CLF before... and then played hands with Sifu and liked his hands, then begin learning SPM under master mark! some of the attacks in the demonstration look like CLF but most of them are SPM.
art123abc 4 years ago
yes you´re right, the asian guy on the jackie chan movie. He´s a good example of CLF long range arm techniques.
Regarding this video, you can tell it´s not CLF because of short range attacks, without a sideways fighting stance (such as CLF or regular boxing), lots of open palm techniques (while most CLF is closed fist).
I don´t know the styles used by these fighters, but they look southern, remind me of wing chun (wich is awesome).
nimoliva 4 years ago
the CLF guy doesnt look to be that experienced and CLF is a mid ranged martial art.
awhitewind 4 years ago
marks the man sad you cant find any southern mantis schools in nyc , id like to mix it with wing chun and hung gar
ReDbOAtHuNgGaR 4 years ago
the slow guy isn´t doing choy lee fut. For real choy lee fut, check out the jackie chan movie "who am I". The two guys he fights at the roof top are doing choy lee fut.
nimoliva 4 years ago
maybe the asian guy is. the white dude, Ron Smoorenburg, is a Freefight guy, but mostly he's using TKD/Hapkido shit.
telephowned 4 years ago
That's Master Mark.
WingChunLova 4 years ago
Awesome
karatefox 4 years ago
Any of you know who that Master is?
outlawmonk 4 years ago
CLF is for long range.
RChan6950 4 years ago
So that's how crappy and useless Choy Li Fut is??
WingChunLova 4 years ago
No. Although the moves are not rehearsed, they still lack real intent. Also GFM is much much more experienced than the CLF guy.
As far as the practicality of CLF is concerned, I really don't know enough about it to say.
dw3041 4 years ago
It's better then wing chun, atleast they can make the cut to San shou
AAAhmed46 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Better then Wing Chun my ass, WC is the best.
WingChunLova 3 years ago
what do you like more about wing chun? What do you dislike about southern mantis?
just curious?
take care
steve
art123abc 3 years ago
Art, I was talking about CLF, not Mantis, I don't know a lot about Mantis to make an opinion about it.
I just love WC, my names attests to that.
Peace
WingChunLova 3 years ago
I like wing chun alot too!
I really like gary lam wing chun. is there any masters that you could recommend i should check out?
take care
art123abc 3 years ago
I do WT Wing Chun, can't beat it... LOL
WingChunLova 3 years ago
My Friends
Wing Chun And Praying Mantis are alike they both build up powerful forearms. But there is a different from choy li fut its slower trust ME.. by the time CLF has punched the wingchun and prayin mantis has intercepted and damaged has been done.
toad 4 years ago
I don't understand: Which do you mean is fastest?
vapourmile 4 years ago
Hes saying CLF is slower
chunny1991 4 years ago
Oh yes, I can see it now!
vapourmile 4 years ago
southern is a great style in happy just to see it and even more happy to see gin foon mark he a real master, its simaler becouse theres short range moves and traoing like in wing chun , i study redboat wing chun and redboat hung gar
ReDbOAtHuNgGaR 4 years ago
A lot of people say that preying mantis(shaolin)is similiar to wing chun but I don't think so.Other than the preying mantis fist and the movements that goes with it(advanced preying mantis form)it's regular movenents go out of the centerline and the footwork isnt close range.There is wide stepping in Shaolin Preying Mantis.
classicalWC 4 years ago
I do Hung Sing Choy li Fut and this doesn't bother me, it's a demo to see how the moves work against other styles. Choy Li Fut is executed with far more speed and power than that and dosesn't stop and wait for his attacker to hit, just like Jook Lum Tong long Pai. The demostation of ciber fu was very powerful too.
chanheurng 4 years ago
WHAT EVER YOU WANT TO LEARN AND WHOEVER YOUR TEACHER IS YOU SHOULD ALWAYS RESPECT THEM.
There is unlimited Kung Fu in the world, the BEST is to use it to the maximum and learn which style is best for each individual.
MY Friend
toad 4 years ago
good vid... i practice choy lee fut and i dont think that was a very experimented choy lee fut student but still the mantis guy managed to do great counter attacks and very fast.. nice :)
jacf210792 4 years ago
This is good stuff.
Winnin813 4 years ago
lol thats fast
kancerzx 4 years ago
"my dog is better than your dog"
art123abc 4 years ago
hey!!!! I like chow gar , I like all kinds of kung fu and fighting. You dont like master mark than thats fine! I ve learned alot from him and respect him greatly.
art123abc 4 years ago
well said jack
sampochin 4 years ago
gow gar supreme if you train properly .not a lot of people can really comment .sifu's brennan,withrod,hang Ng,NCK,Lee teen toi(a-loi) ip chee keung .If you're outside this circle you should shut the fuck up .Because you know inside you got fuck all. like the sheriff of Knottingham forest of something a wanker .Keeep training son
jackmotel 4 years ago
the best tong long i have seen is from henry sue guys.
theoldboxer 4 years ago
his b day was this last friday! 9/14/07 75 years of hard work and dedication...thank you sifu
art123abc 4 years ago
sifu mark is bad ass. you know bruce lee trained with him for a bit when he was in ny. visiting his dad.
UnderTheGunLLC 4 years ago
always"this martial art vs. that martial art" all I ever see is one superior fighter vs. one inferior fighter;the superior fighter is always promoted by his students to show "their Art" is better than the other one.
chazteddybell 4 years ago
The art is just art.........It is the better practitioner who will be the victor of any art.
They are all good arts
sonyaunna 4 years ago
GFM was taking it easy on the CLF fellah really easy, i been studying spm from GFM lineage him and his nephew really streamlined the spm for technique he really made it more practical, He also mastered the Fu jou pi ( excuse the spelling)
fireknight187 4 years ago
If either parties went full out. I bet 90% of all that technique won't be irrelevant. You just not going to have time. Same as fighting with gloves.
cornfedanimal 4 years ago
If any one of the techniques work at any given time.....then the fight could end right then...
it is not about how many techniques you throw, it's about being able to throw what you need instinctively at the right moment.
Lt
sonyaunna 4 years ago
He surrely mastered the Praying Mantis technics, that´s the difference, it´s nice to see traditional kung-fu in action istead of kickboxing and sansho
feliperoselino 4 years ago
HEY GUYS!!!!!!!!!! We are here to show and see arts and how they are practiced - maybe even show respect for our arts! How are we doing that by name calling? We all have opinions - let's move on - play nice - DC1
b7605444 4 years ago
this looks similar to wing chun
FreshNsexy 4 years ago
Yeah, there are quite a few similarities. The main differences are the position elbows and the footwork.
dw3041 4 years ago
Oh, one more thing DW and I'll use monosyllabic words: This vid is still fake.
ssewarrior 4 years ago
I don't see where I typed "this is an actual fight". There is a difference between a "demonstration" and a "rehearsed" set of attacks and counters. As mentioned in the description, this video is only a demonstration. But, I guess I can't argue with someone who refuses to look at the whole picture and who's only method of arguing is ad hominem attacks. This video was never ment as a diss to your precious CLF so grow the fuck up!
P.S. I am blocking you from further comments.
dw3041 4 years ago
Ok fine, it's on. Does DW stand for DumbWit? You're delusional. I never made a challenge, I said anyone can make a video of 1 style vs. another, you made the rest up yourself.
You must train with this master or you wouldn't be getting your panties in a bunch. Anybody who knows anything about old school challenges knows they are to the death and hence, NOT made anymore. Any wise student also knows that they should never make challenges for their master because of the aforementioned. Nuff said.
ssewarrior 4 years ago
"DumbWit"? "Panties in a bunch"? ...Very clever. I hope for your sake that you are no older than 15.
Who ever said anything about "old school" challenges and what makes you an expert on such a thing, huh "wise student"? My telling you to challenge Gin Foon Mark had nothing to do with what I thought he would actually agree to, nor what I thought you would be willing to do, so don't flatter yourself. It shouldn't be that difficult to figure out what I was intending to illustrate.
dw3041 4 years ago
Wow, you truly are delusional. Who knew your IQ only had 2 digits in it? You clearly have no discernable skills in communication so I'm just going to leave it at that. You clearly live in your own little world with a blanket to keep you warm and sucking your thumb. Nice life.
ssewarrior 4 years ago
DW, funny how you read into it and deduced things that I didn't say. What challenge? There wasn't one.
I'm not saying the Master isn't great, I'm sure he is, I merely said that it was rehearsed and not an actual sparring match or real fight. There are plenty of videos of CLF against other arts that are just as rehearsed. So... as always, don't believe everything you see in the movies.
ssewarrior 4 years ago
You are obviously old enough to spell, so you should also be familiar enough with the concept of using passive words in an ill spirited way to know that it is a very weak net to fall back on when called on your bullshit.
dw3041 4 years ago
DW, if masters stoped to deal with people's egos they would never get any training done, LOL
Subway0001 4 years ago
This is all rehearsed anyway. Anybody in the Choy Lay Fut system could make a video the opposite direction.
ssewarrior 4 years ago
He is almost 80 now, but he still would probably accept your challenge if you think he's a fake. Do you want me to give you the adress of his school, or do you just critique the skills of masters for the sake of your ego?
dw3041 4 years ago
The Southern martial artists try to exploit the sweeping motions of the Long Fist styles, but the motions can be made tighter.
thomasincali 4 years ago
Looking at this again, this reminds me that all the internal martial arts, northern or southern, seem to fight in exactly the same way and have very, very similar techniques. Nice video.
blackjamm 4 years ago
if any of you ever get the chance to train with master mark, do it! One of the funniest people Ive ever meet. great personality, excellent artist all around!
art123abc 4 years ago
Pretty durn cool. Mantis style is awesome.
Piffleswaf 4 years ago
Very nice southern style gongfu. Smooth. The only problem I have with southern styles is only to do with language - the terminology is seldom standardised, and is often in Cantonese, idiosyncratically transliterated. Still, the styles themselves are good.
blackjamm 4 years ago
haha that's why you should learn to read in chinese
ziqiantransforms 4 years ago
I can read in Chinese. But the vast majority of gongfu books I can get hold of are transliterated only, and with southern styles, that's a problem, because I don't understand Cantonese. And you end up with names like "chair pie", and "jic gerk", which are not good at all linguistically.
blackjamm 4 years ago
both of them are pretty good, i like southern praying mantis kung fu, because it move very fast.
koollilazian 4 years ago
Pretty kool. This kung fu fight is actaully kool to watch. All the other king fu fights are really stupid and gay but this one is pretty entertaining
Nhia89 4 years ago
this is really good
each of them did not really use "jing"
that's why ppl say it looks boring
they just practiced the skills and the speed
the one in whole black rules
GrassMonkey 4 years ago
is "jing" chinese for pulling punches?
GGAllinIsGod 4 years ago
not punch
it is an internal power
Jing comes from your waist and lower abdomen
or more specifically, "Dan Tien"
GrassMonkey 4 years ago
@GGAllinIsGod fa jing creating or exploding energy. chern [sp?] ging is inch power.kung lik , yum lik, there many forms of expressing power. short bursts are southern kung fu specialty. he's pulling back because he doesn't want to hit him.
cfG21 1 year ago
southern jing is very different. Look closer.
cfG21 4 years ago
i agree with clf devil i am also a student of Choy Li fut and both systems are very good in practice. but to say that one martial art is better than the other is stupid and people who say these things clearly do not know the true meaning of martial arts
pipcmorgan 5 years ago
Kung Fu fights are more like dancing.
BlackBeltLeroyJones 5 years ago
Theres nothing impresive about thi fight whatsoever.
Kung fu fights always make better reading than actually seeing the fights.
BlackBeltLeroyJones 5 years ago
You just don't know what to look for. Good fighting is all about the subtleties. It's never as simple as "A" technique against "B" attack equals "C" result.
dw3041 5 years ago
arg... kung fu is sooo boring! i have never seen a real kung fu fight (the ones i have seen sucked).
k-1/MMA/muay thai forever!
MartialArtsLover 5 years ago
Then don't watch it.
dw3041 5 years ago
watch sanshou or leitai then. that's the real stuff.
dboyzero 5 years ago
I've only met the man once and have a painting of his, to watch him in action is awe inspiring, and extremely rare. I love that you can clearly see the phoenix eye
Meingo 5 years ago
how strong are the "kicks " in s.praying mantis?
musicdisciple 5 years ago
SPM is an arm centric style really, Chow Gar SPM only uses low kicks to hip knee ankle etc. Its a close in style that aims to trap break and tear by controling your opponents movement, long kicks are counter to that. Hope thats helpful.
hippotech 5 years ago
finally a decent gin foon mark demo ty dw3041, been studying his stuff for a few years, imo his interpretation of the spm. All you need is the 4 point arrow and youll see a big diff, but to get good you need a partner to practice techniques then you get really good
fireknight187 5 years ago
4 point arrow? Do you mean 3 step arrow?
dw3041 5 years ago
My instructer reffered to the form as being the 4 point arrow .which was the second form jimmy (Gin Foon Marks's nephew) taught. Ive seen alot of diferent variations on the form in the smp schools but 4 point arrow is the more effective version gives you that inside power...alot of schools skip the step that grants with pracitce extreeme hand speed :)
fireknight187 5 years ago
Internal power? Sounds like basically the same thing as three step arrow. Makes me wonder how many veriations there are.
dw3041 5 years ago