@29condorito and others reminding us the 1988 C-14 tests are no longer to be considered valid: Thank you! Spelling of the science journal is "Thermochimica Acta". The peer-reviewed paper by Raymond N. Rogers titled "Studies on the Radiocarbon Sample from the Shroud of Turin" is in Thermochimica Acta, Volume 425, Issues 1–2, 20 January 2005, Pages 189-194 (purchase online at sciencedirect dot kahm). Background video on YouTube: "Discovery Channel - Unwrapping the Shroud of Turin New Evidence".
The undeniable fact is that this is the image of a man who's body went through the physical torture of crucifixion. Now was this man Jesus? None of us will ever know that. No human, at the time of history when this was arguably carbon dated knew the anatomy of man as shown in this image. Also, it is only in modern times that we have proven that crucifixion was done through the wrists not the palms... It is the image of a man however it may have gotten there.
The Greatest SCIENTIFIC Explanation. The SPIRIT Lives! HEAVENLY FATHER HAS APPEARED AND HE WALKS AMONG US. Only the Creator Himself can reveal His vision as His own. All the FUTURE He forwards in his gift to humanity..// watch LA PAROLA IN CUATRO and merge with the greatest pronouncement of highest science, as He reveals all Creation. Watch and rejoice…this is Real !! Yes, it is He ! @ La Parola In Cuatro. (He even looks like ZEUS !! )
The traces of blood have been proven to be human. Why would a medieval forger bother to use human blood when there was no knowledge of how to test for whether the blood was human or not ? Also how did pollen from the middle-east get on it if it's a fake ? There were no microscopes in the 13th or 14th century so why would a forger bother to make sure there were middle-east pollen grains on it ? The image looks like scorching from infra red or contact with a hot object
This shroud is a gift of belief for those who were not fortunate to see his face, it is without doubt the image of Jesus. I pray for the scoffers of christianity.
Ahh christians. Clutching at straws to try and turn the evidence in their favour. The Shroud of Turin is quickly becoming a case of christians throwing all their eggs in one basket. And what happens if the shroud is proven to be dated around early A.D? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. It still doesn't prove that it was used as a burial cloth for Jesus, or that Jesus even existed, let alone any of the thousands of other claims of supernatural nonsense and biblical rubbish these fools believe. Next.
@Moisty2010 Great...then you are in agreement with a great number of Christians throughout history, including John Calvin.
"How is it possible that those sacred historians, who carefully related all the miracles that took place at Christ’s death, should have omitted to mention one so remarkable as the likeness of the body of our Lord remaining on its wrapping sheet?"
@richsuga Of course. Just because a Christian says sonething, doesn't make it automatically false. They, along with millions of other devout believers, simply lack good arguments for most of their religious beliefs. As I mentioned, if the shroud was 100% authentic, it still doesn't add anything to the believer's argument. It doesn't prove in any way that it belonged to a 30-odd year old man named 'Jesus', or that said man has any of the abilities attributed to him in biblical texts.
..when I see the Turin shroud my mind automatically screams "photo negative!!" problem is!..........it didn't exist back then!! It CAN only be a miracle because photo tech did not exist.............(my personal word) "Yeah, EAT IT Richard Dawkins, who's delusional now!???"
If the Turin is supernatural or medieval, it does NOT take away the Divinity of the Old and New Testament which are the ONLY religious manuscripts on the face of the Earth that can honestly foretell the future. [ Radio carbon dating of ancient Hebrew Texts proves the predictions were written hundreds of years before the events came into existence] I challenge you to study and see for youselves :) Good luck :)
how come the human race doesnt have enuff common sense 2 know that this is the image of our crucified lord on that cloth plain as day with all the test done on it there is no one on planet earth who can replicate the cloth and prove its a fake look on the cloth and see how they tried to destroy GOD 2 no avail he left us proof of his conquer over death the ressurection
@winterstellar Oh, really where are you getting your facts? C'mon folks do some research.It is almost impossible to say what the height of the man on the shroud was, because of the linen.Who's to say long hair wasn't the norm for a Jew back then? If you watch the History channel video "The Real Face of Jesus?" you'll see that the man on the Shroud does indeed look of Jewish origin.As a matter of fact after viewing the above video the face looked very much like Jewish friends I've had.
@winterstellar -Better catch up on recent events bro! C-14 dating done in 1988 has been totally refutted, meaning it was in error and for several reasons (Proven Facts).The main reason was Standard protocols were not adhered too.Only one sample of the whole area of the Shroud was tested.Two; this sample has been found to not match the rest of the shroud.3.There were hugh discrepancies in the years by all three labs (Unpublished)...The C-14 dating was a shambles...Yet the media hides these facts.
@Flagrum3 Haha, "refuted" by whom? Let me guess, a christian, a deeply christian person who has no connection whatsoever to any of the various institutions who dated them to the same period as most other "relics"? Hehe, anyway...NOBODY could have long hair in Israel 2000yrs ago, but it was fashionable in Italy in the 1300s.. Oh,and jews 2000yrs ago were 5 feet tall, not 6 like the geezer on the shroud. European noblemen, like crusaders, were occasionally 6 ft,so that was an inspiration, I'm sure
@winterstellar -If you were to do some friggen reading you'd know by whom and that the c-14 has definately been refutted.Also by all your other statements made in your last post I can easily tell you've done NO research whatsoever, as your statements are retardingly wrong...Where do you people get this stuff? Jews 2000 years ago were 5' tall? Geezer?...Please do everyone a favour and educate yourself.
I may be ignorant of some relevant facts but there's no need for name calling. The Vatican has never officially declared it to an absolutely true relic. the latest comment being that it is nevertheless "A testimony of man's inhumanity to man". I concur. But is it a sin to question? We do not all have the required time to adequately study it all. Some things will never be known. It may be true but insist? Isn't it written "Blessed are those who have not seen, yet believe" - Jesus
Ron Wyatt took a blood scraping off the wall of the tomb believed to be that of Jesus and he had the blood tested and it resulted the Mother was human and the Father was ET...not of planet earth. In ancient times UFO's were drawn as Angels. This may explain the reference of Mary being visited by an Angel, yet it seems it was a UFO. It is believed the ET's made their seed 'perfect'. Jesus was an alien hybrid it seems. So this shroud...is he the same man?
Why is the back body bigger than the front. Why are the arms impossily long. Lay down & try to put your hands & arms in EXACTLYthe same position. Why does blood show no signs of smearing due to handling, wrapping, unwrapping washing/cleaning. Why so tall @ C. 5'11" a giant. The Bible didn't say He was a giant; unless He was painted so to be easier to see by the viewers. Possibly painted w/blood (for realism)on gesso which with & handling this is all that remains.The cloth is a mideival weave
@chimay131 -Reading your statements, I can easily see that your an idiot...Why? because it's obvious you have not done much study on the Shroud.Please do more research and you will find all the scientific answers to all your questions.
All I have to say is the blood evidence on the cloth is consistent with someone who was severely brutalized. This is due to the high levels of bilirubin found in the samples. Many people who die from severe beatings don't die from the direct trauma, they die from kidney failure caused by the huge amounts of bilirubin produced by red blood cell damage, which is toxic to them. Fake or not, someone had to get the crap beaten out of them to get the blood used on the shroud.
No, it is probably not a fake. The Italian chemist who "faked" a new shroud created it which was chemically/physically unlike the real shroud. There is no comparing the new fake with the real deal when viewed as a negative. Moreover, the medieval forger would have had to had invented photography, created a fake without being able to see/test his results, not tell ANYONE about photography, and expect people to discover his anonymous genius centuries later.
@babylonian5 -Oh really!? I really think you should do more reading and research before making such retarded statements.It is a fact that as of this date, no one can explain or reproduce the image that is on the Shroud...No One.If you had taken the time to read, instead of getting all your facts from Youtube videos, you would have known this important FACT.
@babylonian5 -Sorry but you are a MORON.Have you seen or read anything on this 'Italian scientists' so called reproduction? It is a complete joke! He has admitted he used red ochre paint to create the blood...No 3D info, painted blood over the body image, doesn't come close to matching all the attributes of the real Shroud, etc etc;...seriously a total joke and anyone who believes this was a 'reproduction' is a moron, plain and simple.
@babylonian5 You got to research what you have read. STURP team had shown that this so called scientist DID NOT REPLICATE. There are factors that he did not and can not by anyone on earth. When you look at scientific evidence, all of pros and cons, not just being on one side.
Here are the two items of all that no one can replicate it. The image, study it, microanalysis had to be done, the image was dehydrated & 1/10th of the diameter of the human hair. 2nd, 3D effect of any of its picture.
The C14 tests claiming to show that the shroud was medieval, have been proven accurate but invalid. They tested a sample that had been expertly rewoven and dyed to match in the late middle ages.
This isn't some moon-shine swillin' bible-thumping boob who says this, but the prestigious journal Thermochemica Acta, and Los Alamos Labs.
It was even mentioned on the online versions of NY and LA times, very, verrrry discreetly.
It has been proven that the sample taken for carbon dating contained medieval fabric which had been used to repair edges of the shroud after it was damaged by fire. The medieval material had been dyed and woven into the linen of the shroud. This is what was carbon dated. So the dating, which put the shroud at 1290-1370, gave a date which was earlier than the date when the repairs were conducted, but later than 1AD, consistent with the quantities of the two fabrics. Case closed.
When Matt Lauer talks about dating it to 1 AD ,he is referring to the first century AD ,not the year 1 AD. No matter what it dates to ,it can't be proven who is in the image, Rome Crucified more then just one man in the first century.
@gfonzy But not everyone got a crown of thorn and got a lance through his chest. But that happened to the "man" of the Shroud of Turin and that's exactly what was described happening to Jesus.
@bob701z Absolutly! Pio Secundo, the person that took the first "photograph" of the shroud was astounded that the NEGATIVE was a positive image. How was this done 400+ years before the invention of photography? The disbelievers won't/can't answer this disturbing question. It cannot be "recreated". It is also confirmed that the image on the shroud has blood stains..and the blood has not coagulated? this is supposedly "impossible"!! As Christ said, "with God, ALL things are possible".
it was used to wrap jaques demolay the last templar grand master after the church tortured and crucified him but did not kill him. It was given to the church by the family of his friend jeffrey de charnier years later when they discovered that the image had apeared. It is caused by acid secretions from demolays exhausted muscles. Demolay was burned alive several years after the torture by the church and the king of france. Please read carefully before replying.
@alfaromeoash I just watched a full documentary on History International. Scores of scientists did not seem nearly as comfortable making such assertions. Those who have studied it in person for literally hundreds of hours, seemed to think that radiation (some light source, not acid) was the cause of the image. I think there has been enough honest scientific study on this matter that you will not be able to so flippantly brush it under foot.
@johncrab67 ~The "people that have it" have allowed it be tested 3 times already!...Early 70's again in '78 and in 1988.Furthermore, all 'scientific' evidence points this relic to possibly the first century and indisputably the grave cloth of Jesus Christ, simply by it's caricature.Even historical writings can trace this back to atleast 500 AD and earlier!...Contemplate this; If this was not a Religious Relic, there would be absolutely no argument of it's authenticity, thats is a fact bro.
Stick with your religion. I doubt you know much of anything else. The facts are that science has reproduced the process for how this clothe was made. Processes which were available in the time of Leonardo da Vinci. He is highly suspected of creating it. Stay out of school and stay stupid.
The fact that they have to do these tests is embarrassing. Jesus is not a real historical person. Lying psychopaths is what Christian Catholics are. All pure evil except for the idiots that believe it all out of genuine stupidity.
@isleofyew1 and who exactly are you? are you in anyway an expert? do you know anything about the bible? are you saying you are smarter than these experts? and what do you believe in?
@isleofyew1 common sense is just that--common and will not help you explain Godly things. the bible says "people are destroyed because of lack of knowledge". lack of what you may ask--lack of knowledge of the bible.
@wngchnKid + All established religions have experts, even universities like the Muslims have to study "Muslim-ism". Their so called experts claiming Jesus was a real person are not critical enough concerning the little data there is. Also they dismiss telltale indications that it's just a important story developed out of the great cultures of before. I'm a futurist who thanks to modern real knowledge sees better education opportunities than this antique well meant story that fucks up brains!
@wngchnKid Jesus story : I do not believe it's history and I am certain that I get more out of it than someone who does. When you think it's real you understand just about nothing of this book.
@isleofyew1 how would you know all these? what are your basis on saying this? do you read the bible? there is nothing wrong with science but that doesn't explain everthing. try reading the bible.
The Shroud of Turin is not the burial cloth of Christ. Jesus has short hair. All ancient frescos ans paintings of Jewish men of Christ's time to 3-400 yrs agter Christ depict jewish men with short hair, which was the custom in the day of Christ. More important, is the Word of God. God does not break His own Word:
1Cor.11
[14] Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
@NephilimFree you know you have a point there...Jesus is a Nazarene(from Nazareth) and one of their qualities is that they have very very long hair just like Samson. it's been proven that the shroud is an authentic burial cloth. the problem really is proving it if it belongs to Jesus Christ or not. actually there's another test that needs to be done to settle this once and for all. i am willing to sell this information to anyone who can afford it.
@wngchnKid The rit4e of the nazrene was a temporary condition. They grew thier hair long as an example of humility to God, and it was cut afterward. History demonstrastes short hair was the fashion amongst ancient Hebrews. This is why the Word of God states it is a shame for a man to have long hair. So Jesus could not have had long hair as God does not do things which contradict Himself, and the Shroud of Turin cannot be an image of jesus.
@NephilimFree of course God will never contradict Himself...but he can change things. Adam and Eve were created to live forever but when they sinned, God banished them from the Garden of Eden and cursed them and allow them to die eventually. Before salvation is thru the law but now salvation comes thru Christ.
@wngchnKid The Passage of the Nazzarite was a temporary growing of long hair, and God's Word says it's a shame for a man to have long hair so Jesus wouldn't have long hair if the Holy Ghost tells us it's a shame for a man to have long hair. Jesus IS the Holy Ghost.
Col.2
[8] Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
[9] For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
@NephilimFree when people die, they are no longer under the law. have you not read when a person becomes a widow(or widower) he can remarry again? for marriage is between the living and not the dead?
@wngchnKid the son of Terah, the son of Nahor, 35 the son of Serug, the son of Reu, the son of Peleg, the son of Eber, the son of Shelah, 36 the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem, the son of Noah, the son of Lamech, 37 the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalalel, the son of Kenan, 38 the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.
@wngchnKid the son of David, 32 the son of Jesse, the son of Obed, the son of Boaz, the son of Salmon,[d] the son of Nahshon, 33 the son of Amminadab, the son of Ram,[e] the son of Hezron, the son of Perez, the son of Judah, 34 the son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham,
@wngchnKid 29 the son of Joshua, the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, 30 the son of Simeon, the son of Judah, the son of Joseph, the son of Jonam, the son of Eliakim, 31 the son of Melea, the son of Menna, the son of Mattatha, the son of Nathan,
@wngchnKid 25 the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos, the son of Nahum, the son of Esli, the son of Naggai, 26 the son of Maath, the son of Mattathias, the son of Semein, the son of Josek, the son of Joda, 27 the son of Joanan, the son of Rhesa, the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel, the son of Neri, 28 the son of Melki, the son of Addi, the son of Cosam, the son of Elmadam, the son of Er,
@wngchnKid Geneology of Jesus Christ....23 Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph, the son of Heli, 24 the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melki, the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph,
@wngchnKid I have no idea why you mention this. It has nothing to do with the fact that Jesus could not have had long hair. I guess you're just in denial of the Word which tells us its a shame for a man to have long hair, and since that's God's opinion (as the Word is inspired by God) it's clear Jesus could not have had long hair, else he's be calling Himself shameful. Start thinking about what you're denyoing.
I'll tell you what really IS shameful, Neph: a 49-year old man who's been lazily unemployed for years; who freeloads off his cognitively-impaired friend's disability benefits, making her pay for his rent, food, vehicle expenses and even pocket money that he apparently spends on escorts; and who pretends to be a modern-day prophet but is really just an ASSHOLE who never grew up & wants to feel special so he uses religion to justify spewing his jeuvenile hatred against rationalists.
@NephilimFree Sporty Stocking-lover Escort-watching Nutjob, you do realize that there's a drinking game associated with you wherein anytime you say "denial," everyone takes a drink. People get drunk fast with your stupidity.
You know nothing about the world. Your ignorance is astounding. And the fact that you can't even entertain the remote possibility that you could be wrong about ANYTHING shows that you're truly too delusional to have firearms or take care of another human being.
@NephilimFree Quick OT reply. Neph, if it were an abush for you to be on the chat with Blu, as you claim, why did you keep coming back to it on your own volition, and continue with the call for over twelve hours?
Has there ever been a moment where you haven't had to lie to make yourself feel more important or better about yourself?
@NephilimFree "The Shroud of Turin is not the burial cloth of Christ. " hell has not frozen over, but it is not as hot as it once was. You've finally said something sensible. Are you really NephilimFree?
What a pathetic example of your narcissism. If you weren't bald, you never would have cared about this Bible quote. Like all religious extremists, you pick apart and interpret metaphorical fairy tales to validate your preconceived notions of the world and cover up your own little vain insecurities.
@kafkaOTS : Excuse me for my intromission. If you are interested on convince to any person considered by you as dissociated, only show the evidence, because that's problem in deep. p.ex: the front image of shroud is smaller than back image, the head image doesn't match with body from anatomic viewpoint, try to put your hands on your genital organs how exactly it's shown on shroud; nobody has such long arms.
I can't believe here on YouTube the documentary of the American scientist that helped get that date before he died of
Cancer he himself left a report of how to date it correctly and figure out that the corners they used were attached during mid evil times so the piece itself was from
A different time!' when I saw that doc. And he himself an atheist gave an explanation why the shroud dated that year i knew it was real!
The 1988 test showed that it was from the 14th Century. Leonardo Da Vinci was born in 1452, the middle of the 15th Century and died in 1519 which is in the 16th Century. Leonardo was good but not good enough to have produced this before he was even born!
I guess believers in nonsense haven't heard that The Shroud is actually just a hoax. A kind of painting if you will, from the genius Leonardo Davinci. But keep believing your fucking nonsense, Magic God will bless you for this, and you'll go live in magic Heaven-land forever.
@bigboy45454545 -Your comment is not only complete nonsense, but proves your ignorance and lack of respect for others beliefs.If you were to spend some time to learn of the scientific facts about the Shroud you would not make such idiotic statements and look like such an Ignoramus...It dumbfounds me how little effort people like you will put into educating themselfs, yet will so easily spew crap from their mouths as if they new something.The facts are there, if you dare to look for them.
@Flagrum3 You're right there, I have no respect for religion. Let's call it what it really is. Superstitious beliefs in nonsense, in light of what's known about the natural world. I'm a little surprised to see you're a fellow Canadian, but we have our brain-dead retards too. Say hello to magic Jesus for me. He lives in the sky, right Retard? Davinci is the best explanation, there was a documentary on this, did you miss it? You must have been praying to the sky people at the time. Cheers.
@bigboy45454545 -Your ignorance has just been put into light by your own words! "DaVinci Documentary" LOL. You get your facts from TV documentaries? Why not from comic books?-Idiot!! Try 'reading' scientific documents on the subject.These documents are Peer-reviewed, meaning they are scientific tests, done by scientists and which can be reproduced by other scientists to confirm them.Yes I'm Canadian and completely disgusted that there are retards like you here.
@Flagrum3 Peer reviewed scientific documents on the "subject" is it? You seem to be mistaking evidence for a scientific theory, for a hoax of history. In this case the item in question is either legitimate or it isn't. All of the scientific tests on the item, from legitimate experts without confirmation bias, all call it's authenticity into question. There's not a theory here, more of a hypothesis. Papers are written about scientific theories my ignorant Christian friend. Try again Son.
@bigboy45454545 -LOL, What legitimate experts are you talking about? Name a few, steer us to thier peer-reviewed papers....please!! Talking thru your ass again I see....I also see your the ignorant one, in the misconstrued way you see scientific, experimental, thoeries, hypothesis and facts work.Oh and remember you won't get any from Tv documentaries.
@Flagrum3 I've told you retard. Scientific theories have peer reviewed papers written about all or pieces of the scientific theory in question. What we have here is piece of cloth. Unbiased evidence suggests it's not the burial cloth for an alleged Man-God named Jesus. Or have you not heard this, and assume there is evidence for this man named Jesus? There's no historical evidence, no physical evidence and no eye witness accounts for this man called Jesus. But I'm sure you think there is.
@bigboy45454545 -SHIRKING the question I see! Typical of an athiest and proponent to the Shroud! Please show some relative facts to back up your statements, (All of them)please...All talk!!....Again your statements prove your ignorance....My evidence? I've pointed many here to it.If you don't put the effort into searching and reading, (yes reading! Do you remember what that is?), that's not my problem.
@Flagrum3 It's your claim the shroud is the burial cloth of Jesus. It's up to the person making the assertion to prove the claim. It's not up to me as an unbeliever to prove the claim wrong. These are your beliefs, where's your evidence? By the rules of logic and reasoning you lose. These are faith based claims without evidence. It's not up to me to prove a negative. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. You do not have the evidence for this or any evidence of your Gods.
@bigboy45454545 -As I said before the proof to my statements are there to be found.Now if you expect me to do the work for you forget it! I really don't give a shit if you believe.But don't go making false statements without actually researching the topic 'properly'.Properly means reading as much pertinent information you can find, positve and negative and then come to a conclusion.Not by watching a documentary on TV or videos on Youtube-Most of these will give false or bias information.
@Flagrum3 One only has to go as far as Wikipedia to see there is no record of the shroud before the 14th century. Of course I've looked further, but you just keep going back to the heavily biased and untrue sites for your lies about the shoud. This will make you feel better. And say hello to magic Jesus for me. He lives in the sky, right Retard? Is he going to come flying out of the sky real soon now? I'll bake a cake. This thing is a fake, just like your God and Jesus.
@bigboy45454545 =See there you go again! Wikipedia? You do realize it is written by people like you and me? and NOT EXPERTS.The Shroud my friend has been proven to be much older then the C14 dating of the 14th century-that is fact.AND what sites are untrue? again, statements with no proof to back them up.Just do everyone a favour; Take your head out of your ass!!
@Flagrum3 The shroud hasn't been proven. Your God hasn't been proven. There's no credible evidence that Jesus even lived. I've said I looked further than Wikipedia. Even under the lowest level of scrutiny, your religion and all religions fall apart like a Chinese motorcycle. That's why it's called faith. Reasonable people require evidence for the supernatural. But like all Theists you can't be reasoned with. You have your faith and a feeling in your heart. But you don't have any evidence.
@bigboy45454545 -Okay how did this get to 'faith, religion' when we originally were talking about the authenticity of the Shroud? Forget that the Shroud is a religious object and look at it scientifically.Athiests like you fear the shroud because it is indisputable.All real evidence shows it is what it seems to be (scientifically), thats all I'm arguing! Now to bring it into the religious realm i.e; It is evidence of the resurrection, then that by all means would need a leap of faith.
@Flagrum3 Hey Retard, this got to "faith" because you have faith without evidence this piece of cloth is the burial cloth of your imaginary God. Just like you have faith without evidence that the Christian Gods are real. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. You do not have it. All you have is faith. The dictionary says faith is: Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. Atheists don't fear, we require evidence. Read Mark 16:18, just don't do it.
@bigboy45454545 The evidence is right in front of you!! Now if you want to just disregard it without looking at it with an open mind, that's fine.I'm not going to push you to believe anything.But one question; If it's all fairy tales and you don't fear it, Why are you here making comments? I would think all this fairy tale talk would bore such an intellect as yourself. ;-)
@bigboy45454545 God's existence is not based on someone's belief. God existed long before everything you knew existed. look around you...where do you think all these came from?
@bigboy45454545 what facts does harry potter have? don't you know that the bible is historically correct? historical diggings and excavations in the middle east are based on the descriptions found in the bible. archeologists use the bible as their refence and become successful in finding ancient ruins and places.
@wngchnKid what facts does harry potter have? don't you know that the bible is historically correct?
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The bible is historically correct, really? So talking snakes, rib-women, living in whales for 3 days is all part of history? Did humans live with dinosaurs also, you know just like in The Flintstones? Is the Flintstones history just like your book of fairytales is?
@bigboy45454545 you don't have any problems believing the author of harry potter but you question the power of God. if God will create humans out of stones then it shall be. you haven't even scratched the surface. begin with genesis...you will see the power of God...
@wngchnKid -"and i will pray that God will guide and enlighten you as you read.'
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You do that Sport. Knock yourself out and talk to your invisible man who lives in the sky, on my behalf. In my opinion this is how Christians and Muslims tell people to fuck off in a nice way. You have no evidence for your God's existence. Your God lives only in your imagination.
@wngchnKid -"evidence is all around you. you just need to look harder."
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I require hard evidence for the existence of your Christian God. I'm a little funny about things like this. Let's say this is a court of law? Please provide your hard evidence for your God? I see you're talking with NephilimFree in this blog. Just more evidence that you're delusional with the talking snakes and rib-women and the other bullshit. Have fun with your nonsense.
@bigboy45454545 i am talking plainly here... look around you...everything that you see and don't see is created by God...here's an example from book of Genesis...1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
@wngchnKid 3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
@wngchnKid- I asked you for evidence for your God. You cannot provide any because your God is a myth. Believers are superstitious and unscientific people. Evidence for your beliefs is not required, this is called faith. Faith is wishful thinking without evidence being required. With what's know about the earth "Genesis 1" is a really embarrassing story for anyone to try and justify.
@wngchnKid "let me ask you this...why is it important for you to see God?"
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I know that no Gods exist so it's not important for me to see something which was never indicated. However without Gods existing in our universe Christians still live their lives on fundamental falsehoods that Gods are real. Making their actions highly flawed because of their false beliefs. A life wasted with nonsense is still a wasted life. Religion is a lie, even yours.
@wngchnKid "you know that God doesn't exist? is that a fact? how would you prove this."
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All Gods are magic. Magic breaks the laws of physics. I can't prove 100% that Gods don't exist, just like you can't prove 100% that the Dodo bird isn't extinct. Just like God you can look for the Dodo bird and never ever find it. How many rocks do you have to look under to know it's really gone? Your God never existed in the first place. Your God is a myth
@wngchnKid so if GOD DOESNT EXIST how did you get hear ? GOD does exist he is real look at all he did to save you from hell i pray you will open your eyes now before its to late amen
The Gospel is only in fragmentary form today , so in that sense its lost but some prominent churchfathers quoted from it and they had it in its fulness, chek out my channel for my reconstruction of the face on the shroud :)
A Long Lost Gospel PROVES The Shroud Of Turin To Be Genuine.
Gospel according to the Hebrews. From St.Jerome (341-420 AD) "De Viris Illustribus 2", The Gospel called according to the Hebrews which was recently transcribed by me into Greek and Latin, which Origen frequently uses, records after the resurrection of the Savior: And when the Lord had given the linen cloth to the servant of the priest, he went to James and appeared to him.
A shroud that fell loosely over a contoured human face would adhere to the contours of the face. Thus, the space between, eg, the tip of nose and the cheek bones would be distorted when you removed the shroud. It would have a spread out, flattened look to it. Perspective would be lost. This could happen only if the shroud was held on a flat plane above the face, allowing accurate perspective to be maintained. Also, consider the tip-to-tip heads (front to back): It would be solid, not pointed
its from the 14th century and its the face of Jaques du Molay......... He is actually alive on this imprint. Its image is known has been reproduced by 2 australian scientists. Its imprint was originally created by fluke...... Its the result of sweat, adrenalin. He was wrapped up and left in a coma, he was actually burned alive 7 years after this
@Enferushostis> Haha what a retarded theory! Some of you non-believers are even more gullible then I thought! If you could believe that ridicuious theory, you are an idiot, plane and simple.
@Flagrum3 You are obviously thick as shit and believe..................Who is it then, come on shit for brains who is it, where is it from? Why is it elongated? Why is the left shoulder dislocated?? ANSWER ME YOU ARROGANT THICK FUCK!!!
@Enferushostis >Obviously you are of mind of a child, having to revert to obscenity instead of facts for your argument! Taking your 'facts' from a novel written by a simpleton! ...Answers to all your questions; you could find by educating yourself and reading papers by experts instead of reading 'fictional' novels...there are hundreds of peer-reviewed and scientific articles on this matter, if you 'cared' to learn.
@Enferushostis Your "logic" is thus: "I don't know who it is...therefore it's Jesus". My goodness. And drop the profanity, if you're trying to make a serious argument.
@Enferushostis Oh....in that case your logic is thus: "I don't know who it is...therefore it's Jaques du Molay". Either way, knock off the potty mouth.
@Enferushostis Realyy? You're going with this condescending approach? Is that the best you can do? A true sign of how insecure someone is in their point is how aggressive they act.
@Enferushostis I put my two cents into this thread earlier, Enfer. Scan for "A shroud that fell loosely" and you'll see it. Looking forward to the shoot down. Why so intense, dude? And I have no idea who (if anyone) it is....never claimed to. I come down (obviously) on the "it's fake" side of the argument.
@Cylka -Another neophyte,The conflict of evidence has emerged because every detail of the Shroud but one; (the C-14 dating) points to the Shroud being from atleast the 5th century or older and new scientific evidence prooves the c14 dating was in error...Not a miracle but science! So not stupid, which maybe describes you, whom obviously has not done any real study on the subject.
John 20:7"the face-cloth which had been on His head, not lying with the linen wrappings, but rolled up in a place by itself." in other words..2 pieces not 1 shroud. It's fake!!!
@submitted1 The bible does indicate two pieces. But they could of been sewed together as well. But even if they do get to carbon date the Shroud again, and it confirms it to be 2000 years old, that still will not prove it is Jesus. I do believe in Jesus, but this Shroud could be from anybody that was crucified. I would like to believe that it is the Shroud of Jesus. I don't think anybody will be able to prove it either way.
@TheScottwalls They carbon dated a corner that was burned in a fire. Not only could have it been repaired but it could have changed the make up for the carbon dating, because it was changed at a different period.
There are two pieces the face cloth, and the shroud. That guy is just stupid and hopes he won't pay for his sins like everyone else.
@submitted1 Moron.... youre a simpleton neophyte... the second piece, the face cloth, is being held in Spain since 600 AD at Oviedo church and its called the Sudarium of Oviedo... go get your facts straight you stupid illiterate...
@submitted1 actually there was 2 pieces if u watch the full video that was played on this special, they actually have the other piece,that was on the face and it matches this piece this one was wrapped around and that 1 on the face its amazing.
@29condorito and others reminding us the 1988 C-14 tests are no longer to be considered valid: Thank you! Spelling of the science journal is "Thermochimica Acta". The peer-reviewed paper by Raymond N. Rogers titled "Studies on the Radiocarbon Sample from the Shroud of Turin" is in Thermochimica Acta, Volume 425, Issues 1–2, 20 January 2005, Pages 189-194 (purchase online at sciencedirect dot kahm). Background video on YouTube: "Discovery Channel - Unwrapping the Shroud of Turin New Evidence".
randwolfray 2 days ago
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The undeniable fact is that this is the image of a man who's body went through the physical torture of crucifixion. Now was this man Jesus? None of us will ever know that. No human, at the time of history when this was arguably carbon dated knew the anatomy of man as shown in this image. Also, it is only in modern times that we have proven that crucifixion was done through the wrists not the palms... It is the image of a man however it may have gotten there.
OneCyberWorld 2 weeks ago
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bortelliM 1 month ago
The traces of blood have been proven to be human. Why would a medieval forger bother to use human blood when there was no knowledge of how to test for whether the blood was human or not ? Also how did pollen from the middle-east get on it if it's a fake ? There were no microscopes in the 13th or 14th century so why would a forger bother to make sure there were middle-east pollen grains on it ? The image looks like scorching from infra red or contact with a hot object
funkmasterjee 4 months ago
GAY JESUS
youtubiwankenobi 4 months ago
This shroud is a gift of belief for those who were not fortunate to see his face, it is without doubt the image of Jesus. I pray for the scoffers of christianity.
tankman1962 5 months ago
@tankman1962 I believe this shroud is fabricated. Not the covering of Jesus, nor did he look like what is commonly depicted of him today.
PuertoRicanTakeOva 2 months ago
Ahh christians. Clutching at straws to try and turn the evidence in their favour. The Shroud of Turin is quickly becoming a case of christians throwing all their eggs in one basket. And what happens if the shroud is proven to be dated around early A.D? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. It still doesn't prove that it was used as a burial cloth for Jesus, or that Jesus even existed, let alone any of the thousands of other claims of supernatural nonsense and biblical rubbish these fools believe. Next.
Moisty2010 5 months ago
@Moisty2010 Great...then you are in agreement with a great number of Christians throughout history, including John Calvin.
"How is it possible that those sacred historians, who carefully related all the miracles that took place at Christ’s death, should have omitted to mention one so remarkable as the likeness of the body of our Lord remaining on its wrapping sheet?"
richsuga 1 month ago
@richsuga Of course. Just because a Christian says sonething, doesn't make it automatically false. They, along with millions of other devout believers, simply lack good arguments for most of their religious beliefs. As I mentioned, if the shroud was 100% authentic, it still doesn't add anything to the believer's argument. It doesn't prove in any way that it belonged to a 30-odd year old man named 'Jesus', or that said man has any of the abilities attributed to him in biblical texts.
Moisty2010 1 month ago
..when I see the Turin shroud my mind automatically screams "photo negative!!" problem is!..........it didn't exist back then!! It CAN only be a miracle because photo tech did not exist.............(my personal word) "Yeah, EAT IT Richard Dawkins, who's delusional now!???"
AppalachianKnight77 6 months ago
If the Turin is supernatural or medieval, it does NOT take away the Divinity of the Old and New Testament which are the ONLY religious manuscripts on the face of the Earth that can honestly foretell the future. [ Radio carbon dating of ancient Hebrew Texts proves the predictions were written hundreds of years before the events came into existence] I challenge you to study and see for youselves :) Good luck :)
IamJohnHello 7 months ago
how come the human race doesnt have enuff common sense 2 know that this is the image of our crucified lord on that cloth plain as day with all the test done on it there is no one on planet earth who can replicate the cloth and prove its a fake look on the cloth and see how they tried to destroy GOD 2 no avail he left us proof of his conquer over death the ressurection
187murder1000 7 months ago
The Shroud of Turing is real !
vtorrieri 7 months ago
Yes, he's way too tall, way too european and has way too long hair to be a 2000 year old jew. He could be a european from the 1300s, though.. :)
winterstellar 7 months ago
@winterstellar Oh, really where are you getting your facts? C'mon folks do some research.It is almost impossible to say what the height of the man on the shroud was, because of the linen.Who's to say long hair wasn't the norm for a Jew back then? If you watch the History channel video "The Real Face of Jesus?" you'll see that the man on the Shroud does indeed look of Jewish origin.As a matter of fact after viewing the above video the face looked very much like Jewish friends I've had.
Flagrum3 7 months ago
Sad to see such desperate christians. But the shroud was dated by independent science labs to be from the 1300s.: )
winterstellar 7 months ago
@winterstellar -Better catch up on recent events bro! C-14 dating done in 1988 has been totally refutted, meaning it was in error and for several reasons (Proven Facts).The main reason was Standard protocols were not adhered too.Only one sample of the whole area of the Shroud was tested.Two; this sample has been found to not match the rest of the shroud.3.There were hugh discrepancies in the years by all three labs (Unpublished)...The C-14 dating was a shambles...Yet the media hides these facts.
Flagrum3 7 months ago
@Flagrum3 Haha, "refuted" by whom? Let me guess, a christian, a deeply christian person who has no connection whatsoever to any of the various institutions who dated them to the same period as most other "relics"? Hehe, anyway...NOBODY could have long hair in Israel 2000yrs ago, but it was fashionable in Italy in the 1300s.. Oh,and jews 2000yrs ago were 5 feet tall, not 6 like the geezer on the shroud. European noblemen, like crusaders, were occasionally 6 ft,so that was an inspiration, I'm sure
winterstellar 6 months ago
@winterstellar -If you were to do some friggen reading you'd know by whom and that the c-14 has definately been refutted.Also by all your other statements made in your last post I can easily tell you've done NO research whatsoever, as your statements are retardingly wrong...Where do you people get this stuff? Jews 2000 years ago were 5' tall? Geezer?...Please do everyone a favour and educate yourself.
Flagrum3 6 months ago
I may be ignorant of some relevant facts but there's no need for name calling. The Vatican has never officially declared it to an absolutely true relic. the latest comment being that it is nevertheless "A testimony of man's inhumanity to man". I concur. But is it a sin to question? We do not all have the required time to adequately study it all. Some things will never be known. It may be true but insist? Isn't it written "Blessed are those who have not seen, yet believe" - Jesus
chimay131 8 months ago
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Ron Wyatt took a blood scraping off the wall of the tomb believed to be that of Jesus and he had the blood tested and it resulted the Mother was human and the Father was ET...not of planet earth. In ancient times UFO's were drawn as Angels. This may explain the reference of Mary being visited by an Angel, yet it seems it was a UFO. It is believed the ET's made their seed 'perfect'. Jesus was an alien hybrid it seems. So this shroud...is he the same man?
JillAngie2 8 months ago
Why is the back body bigger than the front. Why are the arms impossily long. Lay down & try to put your hands & arms in EXACTLYthe same position. Why does blood show no signs of smearing due to handling, wrapping, unwrapping washing/cleaning. Why so tall @ C. 5'11" a giant. The Bible didn't say He was a giant; unless He was painted so to be easier to see by the viewers. Possibly painted w/blood (for realism)on gesso which with & handling this is all that remains.The cloth is a mideival weave
chimay131 8 months ago
@chimay131 -Reading your statements, I can easily see that your an idiot...Why? because it's obvious you have not done much study on the Shroud.Please do more research and you will find all the scientific answers to all your questions.
Flagrum3 8 months ago
All I have to say is the blood evidence on the cloth is consistent with someone who was severely brutalized. This is due to the high levels of bilirubin found in the samples. Many people who die from severe beatings don't die from the direct trauma, they die from kidney failure caused by the huge amounts of bilirubin produced by red blood cell damage, which is toxic to them. Fake or not, someone had to get the crap beaten out of them to get the blood used on the shroud.
keithzeger12 8 months ago
@keithzeger12 Yea, i know what it says. There was no need for the stone to be rolled away nor for Jesus to not have been present if he is God
genext7 8 months ago
But is was a important symbol for the witness of his power
rpetrae 8 months ago
If jesus zapped through the cloth then why the hell did he need to roll away a stone to get out?
genext7 9 months ago
@genext7 2 angels rolled away the stone, not Jesus. They wanted Mary and the disciples to see that he rose.
wonphi 8 months ago
Uhm, it is already proven by italian scientists that its fake. Was hand made in the medieval times.
babylonian5 9 months ago
@babylonian5 Nothing proved that it was hand made. As a matte of fact, everything done in the 2010 analysis proved how it WASN'T hand made.
wonphi 8 months ago
@babylonian5 -Wrong...try again.
Flagrum3 8 months ago
That is not true. Because if it is a fake yiy have to be able to do something similar....which it is impossible.
rpetrae 8 months ago
@rpetrae
No, it is probably not a fake. The Italian chemist who "faked" a new shroud created it which was chemically/physically unlike the real shroud. There is no comparing the new fake with the real deal when viewed as a negative. Moreover, the medieval forger would have had to had invented photography, created a fake without being able to see/test his results, not tell ANYONE about photography, and expect people to discover his anonymous genius centuries later.
29condorito 7 months ago
@rpetrae not only that... it also said that the examined samples were contaminated by the midieval peices of cloth.
oleh2007 7 months ago
@babylonian5 -Oh really!? I really think you should do more reading and research before making such retarded statements.It is a fact that as of this date, no one can explain or reproduce the image that is on the Shroud...No One.If you had taken the time to read, instead of getting all your facts from Youtube videos, you would have known this important FACT.
Flagrum3 7 months ago
@babylonian5 -Sorry but you are a MORON.Have you seen or read anything on this 'Italian scientists' so called reproduction? It is a complete joke! He has admitted he used red ochre paint to create the blood...No 3D info, painted blood over the body image, doesn't come close to matching all the attributes of the real Shroud, etc etc;...seriously a total joke and anyone who believes this was a 'reproduction' is a moron, plain and simple.
Flagrum3 7 months ago
@babylonian5
Nevermind the whole point of the video, if you watched the first 40 seconds you would get the point. Do you click on vids soley to hate?
BoboSnowman 6 months ago
@babylonian5 You got to research what you have read. STURP team had shown that this so called scientist DID NOT REPLICATE. There are factors that he did not and can not by anyone on earth. When you look at scientific evidence, all of pros and cons, not just being on one side.
Here are the two items of all that no one can replicate it. The image, study it, microanalysis had to be done, the image was dehydrated & 1/10th of the diameter of the human hair. 2nd, 3D effect of any of its picture.
kita2porgeecjm 6 months ago
@babylonian5 did you watch the video?
believerintheword 5 months ago
@babylonian5
The C14 tests claiming to show that the shroud was medieval, have been proven accurate but invalid. They tested a sample that had been expertly rewoven and dyed to match in the late middle ages.
This isn't some moon-shine swillin' bible-thumping boob who says this, but the prestigious journal Thermochemica Acta, and Los Alamos Labs.
It was even mentioned on the online versions of NY and LA times, very, verrrry discreetly.
29condorito 4 months ago
@babylonian5
It has been proven that the sample taken for carbon dating contained medieval fabric which had been used to repair edges of the shroud after it was damaged by fire. The medieval material had been dyed and woven into the linen of the shroud. This is what was carbon dated. So the dating, which put the shroud at 1290-1370, gave a date which was earlier than the date when the repairs were conducted, but later than 1AD, consistent with the quantities of the two fabrics. Case closed.
sharbel23 2 months ago
winning numbers for pick
350 415
kingarlekin 9 months ago
That we know of, the history from first century Crucifixion is not very a abundant !
gfonzy 10 months ago
When Matt Lauer talks about dating it to 1 AD ,he is referring to the first century AD ,not the year 1 AD. No matter what it dates to ,it can't be proven who is in the image, Rome Crucified more then just one man in the first century.
gfonzy 11 months ago
@gfonzy But not everyone got a crown of thorn and got a lance through his chest. But that happened to the "man" of the Shroud of Turin and that's exactly what was described happening to Jesus.
thetraceur123 10 months ago
wow i love it all i love jesus. jesus is loved.
lils3nio 11 months ago
Christ's descendants? Christ never had any children. So you would be looking for Mary's descendants, the relatives of Christ.
thewordofgod2010 11 months ago
recreate it if its a fraud! Lets see any one skeptic recreate it comon! Jesus is Lord!
bob701z 1 year ago 10
@bob701z Absolutly! Pio Secundo, the person that took the first "photograph" of the shroud was astounded that the NEGATIVE was a positive image. How was this done 400+ years before the invention of photography? The disbelievers won't/can't answer this disturbing question. It cannot be "recreated". It is also confirmed that the image on the shroud has blood stains..and the blood has not coagulated? this is supposedly "impossible"!! As Christ said, "with God, ALL things are possible".
bheadh 1 month ago
it was used to wrap jaques demolay the last templar grand master after the church tortured and crucified him but did not kill him. It was given to the church by the family of his friend jeffrey de charnier years later when they discovered that the image had apeared. It is caused by acid secretions from demolays exhausted muscles. Demolay was burned alive several years after the torture by the church and the king of france. Please read carefully before replying.
alfaromeoash 1 year ago
@alfaromeoash I just watched a full documentary on History International. Scores of scientists did not seem nearly as comfortable making such assertions. Those who have studied it in person for literally hundreds of hours, seemed to think that radiation (some light source, not acid) was the cause of the image. I think there has been enough honest scientific study on this matter that you will not be able to so flippantly brush it under foot.
cjhandy777 11 months ago
If this is real, it could be any person. It proves nothing. Test the real shroud, i say but the people that have it will never let that happen.
johncrab67 1 year ago
@johncrab67 ~The "people that have it" have allowed it be tested 3 times already!...Early 70's again in '78 and in 1988.Furthermore, all 'scientific' evidence points this relic to possibly the first century and indisputably the grave cloth of Jesus Christ, simply by it's caricature.Even historical writings can trace this back to atleast 500 AD and earlier!...Contemplate this; If this was not a Religious Relic, there would be absolutely no argument of it's authenticity, thats is a fact bro.
Flagrum3 1 year ago 6
WOW THAT IS MY LORD & SAVER JESUS THE SON OF GOD AMEN
JesusLorloves 1 year ago
@MrEverybodyhateschri amen it is the son of GOD jesus is lord amen
JesusLorloves 1 year ago
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@MrEverybodyhateschri "then how stupid are you?? you dont know anything."
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Stick with your religion. I doubt you know much of anything else. The facts are that science has reproduced the process for how this clothe was made. Processes which were available in the time of Leonardo da Vinci. He is highly suspected of creating it. Stay out of school and stay stupid.
bigboy45454545 1 year ago
extra ordinary claims require extra ordinary proof,,the shroud is genuine,absolutely no doubt about it.
macker33 1 year ago
The fact that they have to do these tests is embarrassing. Jesus is not a real historical person. Lying psychopaths is what Christian Catholics are. All pure evil except for the idiots that believe it all out of genuine stupidity.
isleofyew1 1 year ago
@isleofyew1 and who exactly are you? are you in anyway an expert? do you know anything about the bible? are you saying you are smarter than these experts? and what do you believe in?
wngchnKid 1 year ago
@wngchnKid common sense.
isleofyew1 1 year ago
@isleofyew1 common sense is just that--common and will not help you explain Godly things. the bible says "people are destroyed because of lack of knowledge". lack of what you may ask--lack of knowledge of the bible.
wngchnKid 1 year ago
@wngchnKid + All established religions have experts, even universities like the Muslims have to study "Muslim-ism". Their so called experts claiming Jesus was a real person are not critical enough concerning the little data there is. Also they dismiss telltale indications that it's just a important story developed out of the great cultures of before. I'm a futurist who thanks to modern real knowledge sees better education opportunities than this antique well meant story that fucks up brains!
isleofyew1 1 year ago
@isleofyew1 little data eh? have your read the bible or better yet...do you understand the bible when you read it?
wngchnKid 1 year ago
@wngchnKid Jesus story : I do not believe it's history and I am certain that I get more out of it than someone who does. When you think it's real you understand just about nothing of this book.
isleofyew1 1 year ago
@isleofyew1 what do you not believe?
wngchnKid 1 year ago
@isleofyew1 how would you know all these? what are your basis on saying this? do you read the bible? there is nothing wrong with science but that doesn't explain everthing. try reading the bible.
wngchnKid 1 year ago
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The Shroud of Turin is not the burial cloth of Christ. Jesus has short hair. All ancient frescos ans paintings of Jewish men of Christ's time to 3-400 yrs agter Christ depict jewish men with short hair, which was the custom in the day of Christ. More important, is the Word of God. God does not break His own Word:
1Cor.11
[14] Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
NephilimFree 1 year ago
@NephilimFree Hi Nephy, are you still retarded?
bigboy45454545 1 year ago
@NephilimFree you know you have a point there...Jesus is a Nazarene(from Nazareth) and one of their qualities is that they have very very long hair just like Samson. it's been proven that the shroud is an authentic burial cloth. the problem really is proving it if it belongs to Jesus Christ or not. actually there's another test that needs to be done to settle this once and for all. i am willing to sell this information to anyone who can afford it.
wngchnKid 1 year ago
@wngchnKid The rit4e of the nazrene was a temporary condition. They grew thier hair long as an example of humility to God, and it was cut afterward. History demonstrastes short hair was the fashion amongst ancient Hebrews. This is why the Word of God states it is a shame for a man to have long hair. So Jesus could not have had long hair as God does not do things which contradict Himself, and the Shroud of Turin cannot be an image of jesus.
NephilimFree 1 year ago
@NephilimFree of course God will never contradict Himself...but he can change things. Adam and Eve were created to live forever but when they sinned, God banished them from the Garden of Eden and cursed them and allow them to die eventually. Before salvation is thru the law but now salvation comes thru Christ.
wngchnKid 1 year ago
@wngchnKid The Passage of the Nazzarite was a temporary growing of long hair, and God's Word says it's a shame for a man to have long hair so Jesus wouldn't have long hair if the Holy Ghost tells us it's a shame for a man to have long hair. Jesus IS the Holy Ghost.
Col.2
[8] Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
[9] For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
NephilimFree 1 year ago
@NephilimFree when people die, they are no longer under the law. have you not read when a person becomes a widow(or widower) he can remarry again? for marriage is between the living and not the dead?
wngchnKid 1 year ago
@wngchnKid the son of Terah, the son of Nahor, 35 the son of Serug, the son of Reu, the son of Peleg, the son of Eber, the son of Shelah, 36 the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem, the son of Noah, the son of Lamech, 37 the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalalel, the son of Kenan, 38 the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.
wngchnKid 1 year ago
@wngchnKid the son of David, 32 the son of Jesse, the son of Obed, the son of Boaz, the son of Salmon,[d] the son of Nahshon, 33 the son of Amminadab, the son of Ram,[e] the son of Hezron, the son of Perez, the son of Judah, 34 the son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham,
wngchnKid 1 year ago
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@wngchnKid 29 the son of Joshua, the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, 30 the son of Simeon, the son of Judah, the son of Joseph, the son of Jonam, the son of Eliakim, 31 the son of Melea, the son of Menna, the son of Mattatha, the son of Nathan,
wngchnKid 1 year ago
@wngchnKid 25 the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos, the son of Nahum, the son of Esli, the son of Naggai, 26 the son of Maath, the son of Mattathias, the son of Semein, the son of Josek, the son of Joda, 27 the son of Joanan, the son of Rhesa, the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel, the son of Neri, 28 the son of Melki, the son of Addi, the son of Cosam, the son of Elmadam, the son of Er,
wngchnKid 1 year ago
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@wngchnKid Geneology of Jesus Christ....23 Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph, the son of Heli, 24 the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melki, the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph,
wngchnKid 1 year ago
@wngchnKid I have no idea why you mention this. It has nothing to do with the fact that Jesus could not have had long hair. I guess you're just in denial of the Word which tells us its a shame for a man to have long hair, and since that's God's opinion (as the Word is inspired by God) it's clear Jesus could not have had long hair, else he's be calling Himself shameful. Start thinking about what you're denyoing.
NephilimFree 1 year ago
@NephilimFree
I'll tell you what really IS shameful, Neph: a 49-year old man who's been lazily unemployed for years; who freeloads off his cognitively-impaired friend's disability benefits, making her pay for his rent, food, vehicle expenses and even pocket money that he apparently spends on escorts; and who pretends to be a modern-day prophet but is really just an ASSHOLE who never grew up & wants to feel special so he uses religion to justify spewing his jeuvenile hatred against rationalists.
themsfightinwoids 1 year ago
@NephilimFree Sporty Stocking-lover Escort-watching Nutjob, you do realize that there's a drinking game associated with you wherein anytime you say "denial," everyone takes a drink. People get drunk fast with your stupidity.
You know nothing about the world. Your ignorance is astounding. And the fact that you can't even entertain the remote possibility that you could be wrong about ANYTHING shows that you're truly too delusional to have firearms or take care of another human being.
csbair 1 year ago
@NephilimFree Quick OT reply. Neph, if it were an abush for you to be on the chat with Blu, as you claim, why did you keep coming back to it on your own volition, and continue with the call for over twelve hours?
Has there ever been a moment where you haven't had to lie to make yourself feel more important or better about yourself?
csbair 1 year ago
@NephilimFree mentioned what? i mentioned a lot of things.
wngchnKid 1 year ago
@NephilimFree Hrmm. If people disagree with you neph, does that make them bad christians?
2 Philippians 2:3 doesn't seem to apply to you does it?
Meatbag211 1 year ago
@wngchnKid it has never been proven at all to be a proper burial cloth. let alone the one from jesus
123columbo123 1 year ago
@123columbo123 never proven? and how come the STURP committee was able to reach the carbon dating stage if it weren't an authentic burial cloths?
wngchnKid 1 year ago
@wngchnKid that test was done years ago and is now believed to be from a contaminated sample. the person who did it has even said so
123columbo123 1 year ago
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@NephilimFree "The Shroud of Turin is not the burial cloth of Christ. " hell has not frozen over, but it is not as hot as it once was. You've finally said something sensible. Are you really NephilimFree?
AlanCFA 1 year ago
@NephilimFree
What a pathetic example of your narcissism. If you weren't bald, you never would have cared about this Bible quote. Like all religious extremists, you pick apart and interpret metaphorical fairy tales to validate your preconceived notions of the world and cover up your own little vain insecurities.
kafkaOTS 1 year ago
@kafkaOTS : Excuse me for my intromission. If you are interested on convince to any person considered by you as dissociated, only show the evidence, because that's problem in deep. p.ex: the front image of shroud is smaller than back image, the head image doesn't match with body from anatomic viewpoint, try to put your hands on your genital organs how exactly it's shown on shroud; nobody has such long arms.
Leivinn20 1 year ago
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Bozmatic 1 year ago
I can't believe here on YouTube the documentary of the American scientist that helped get that date before he died of
Cancer he himself left a report of how to date it correctly and figure out that the corners they used were attached during mid evil times so the piece itself was from
A different time!' when I saw that doc. And he himself an atheist gave an explanation why the shroud dated that year i knew it was real!
solf08 1 year ago
The 1988 test showed that it was from the 14th Century. Leonardo Da Vinci was born in 1452, the middle of the 15th Century and died in 1519 which is in the 16th Century. Leonardo was good but not good enough to have produced this before he was even born!
aaarrrggghhhh 1 year ago
I guess believers in nonsense haven't heard that The Shroud is actually just a hoax. A kind of painting if you will, from the genius Leonardo Davinci. But keep believing your fucking nonsense, Magic God will bless you for this, and you'll go live in magic Heaven-land forever.
bigboy45454545 1 year ago
@bigboy45454545 -Your comment is not only complete nonsense, but proves your ignorance and lack of respect for others beliefs.If you were to spend some time to learn of the scientific facts about the Shroud you would not make such idiotic statements and look like such an Ignoramus...It dumbfounds me how little effort people like you will put into educating themselfs, yet will so easily spew crap from their mouths as if they new something.The facts are there, if you dare to look for them.
Flagrum3 1 year ago
@Flagrum3 You're right there, I have no respect for religion. Let's call it what it really is. Superstitious beliefs in nonsense, in light of what's known about the natural world. I'm a little surprised to see you're a fellow Canadian, but we have our brain-dead retards too. Say hello to magic Jesus for me. He lives in the sky, right Retard? Davinci is the best explanation, there was a documentary on this, did you miss it? You must have been praying to the sky people at the time. Cheers.
bigboy45454545 1 year ago
@bigboy45454545 -Your ignorance has just been put into light by your own words! "DaVinci Documentary" LOL. You get your facts from TV documentaries? Why not from comic books?-Idiot!! Try 'reading' scientific documents on the subject.These documents are Peer-reviewed, meaning they are scientific tests, done by scientists and which can be reproduced by other scientists to confirm them.Yes I'm Canadian and completely disgusted that there are retards like you here.
Flagrum3 1 year ago
@Flagrum3 Peer reviewed scientific documents on the "subject" is it? You seem to be mistaking evidence for a scientific theory, for a hoax of history. In this case the item in question is either legitimate or it isn't. All of the scientific tests on the item, from legitimate experts without confirmation bias, all call it's authenticity into question. There's not a theory here, more of a hypothesis. Papers are written about scientific theories my ignorant Christian friend. Try again Son.
bigboy45454545 1 year ago
@bigboy45454545 -LOL, What legitimate experts are you talking about? Name a few, steer us to thier peer-reviewed papers....please!! Talking thru your ass again I see....I also see your the ignorant one, in the misconstrued way you see scientific, experimental, thoeries, hypothesis and facts work.Oh and remember you won't get any from Tv documentaries.
Flagrum3 1 year ago
@Flagrum3 I've told you retard. Scientific theories have peer reviewed papers written about all or pieces of the scientific theory in question. What we have here is piece of cloth. Unbiased evidence suggests it's not the burial cloth for an alleged Man-God named Jesus. Or have you not heard this, and assume there is evidence for this man named Jesus? There's no historical evidence, no physical evidence and no eye witness accounts for this man called Jesus. But I'm sure you think there is.
bigboy45454545 1 year ago
@bigboy45454545 -SHIRKING the question I see! Typical of an athiest and proponent to the Shroud! Please show some relative facts to back up your statements, (All of them)please...All talk!!....Again your statements prove your ignorance....My evidence? I've pointed many here to it.If you don't put the effort into searching and reading, (yes reading! Do you remember what that is?), that's not my problem.
Flagrum3 1 year ago
@Flagrum3 It's your claim the shroud is the burial cloth of Jesus. It's up to the person making the assertion to prove the claim. It's not up to me as an unbeliever to prove the claim wrong. These are your beliefs, where's your evidence? By the rules of logic and reasoning you lose. These are faith based claims without evidence. It's not up to me to prove a negative. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. You do not have the evidence for this or any evidence of your Gods.
bigboy45454545 1 year ago
@bigboy45454545 -As I said before the proof to my statements are there to be found.Now if you expect me to do the work for you forget it! I really don't give a shit if you believe.But don't go making false statements without actually researching the topic 'properly'.Properly means reading as much pertinent information you can find, positve and negative and then come to a conclusion.Not by watching a documentary on TV or videos on Youtube-Most of these will give false or bias information.
Flagrum3 1 year ago
@Flagrum3 One only has to go as far as Wikipedia to see there is no record of the shroud before the 14th century. Of course I've looked further, but you just keep going back to the heavily biased and untrue sites for your lies about the shoud. This will make you feel better. And say hello to magic Jesus for me. He lives in the sky, right Retard? Is he going to come flying out of the sky real soon now? I'll bake a cake. This thing is a fake, just like your God and Jesus.
bigboy45454545 1 year ago
@bigboy45454545 =See there you go again! Wikipedia? You do realize it is written by people like you and me? and NOT EXPERTS.The Shroud my friend has been proven to be much older then the C14 dating of the 14th century-that is fact.AND what sites are untrue? again, statements with no proof to back them up.Just do everyone a favour; Take your head out of your ass!!
Flagrum3 1 year ago
@Flagrum3 The shroud hasn't been proven. Your God hasn't been proven. There's no credible evidence that Jesus even lived. I've said I looked further than Wikipedia. Even under the lowest level of scrutiny, your religion and all religions fall apart like a Chinese motorcycle. That's why it's called faith. Reasonable people require evidence for the supernatural. But like all Theists you can't be reasoned with. You have your faith and a feeling in your heart. But you don't have any evidence.
bigboy45454545 1 year ago
@bigboy45454545 -Okay how did this get to 'faith, religion' when we originally were talking about the authenticity of the Shroud? Forget that the Shroud is a religious object and look at it scientifically.Athiests like you fear the shroud because it is indisputable.All real evidence shows it is what it seems to be (scientifically), thats all I'm arguing! Now to bring it into the religious realm i.e; It is evidence of the resurrection, then that by all means would need a leap of faith.
Flagrum3 1 year ago
@Flagrum3 Hey Retard, this got to "faith" because you have faith without evidence this piece of cloth is the burial cloth of your imaginary God. Just like you have faith without evidence that the Christian Gods are real. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. You do not have it. All you have is faith. The dictionary says faith is: Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. Atheists don't fear, we require evidence. Read Mark 16:18, just don't do it.
bigboy45454545 1 year ago
@bigboy45454545 The evidence is right in front of you!! Now if you want to just disregard it without looking at it with an open mind, that's fine.I'm not going to push you to believe anything.But one question; If it's all fairy tales and you don't fear it, Why are you here making comments? I would think all this fairy tale talk would bore such an intellect as yourself. ;-)
Flagrum3 1 year ago
@bigboy45454545 imaginary? is your god tangible?who or what do you believe in?
wngchnKid 1 year ago
@wngchnKid I'm an Atheist. I have no beliefs in any Gods as there's no evidence for such supernatural things.
bigboy45454545 1 year ago
@bigboy45454545 God's existence is not based on someone's belief. God existed long before everything you knew existed. look around you...where do you think all these came from?
wngchnKid 1 year ago
@bigboy45454545 read the bible. it's all you need to know.
wngchnKid 1 year ago
@wngchnKid Read Harry Potter. It's all you need to know.
bigboy45454545 1 year ago
@bigboy45454545 what facts does harry potter have? don't you know that the bible is historically correct? historical diggings and excavations in the middle east are based on the descriptions found in the bible. archeologists use the bible as their refence and become successful in finding ancient ruins and places.
wngchnKid 1 year ago
@wngchnKid what facts does harry potter have? don't you know that the bible is historically correct?
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The bible is historically correct, really? So talking snakes, rib-women, living in whales for 3 days is all part of history? Did humans live with dinosaurs also, you know just like in The Flintstones? Is the Flintstones history just like your book of fairytales is?
bigboy45454545 1 year ago
@bigboy45454545 you don't have any problems believing the author of harry potter but you question the power of God. if God will create humans out of stones then it shall be. you haven't even scratched the surface. begin with genesis...you will see the power of God...
wngchnKid 1 year ago
@bigboy45454545 and i will pray that God will guide and enlighten you as you read.
wngchnKid 1 year ago
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@wngchnKid -"and i will pray that God will guide and enlighten you as you read.'
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You do that Sport. Knock yourself out and talk to your invisible man who lives in the sky, on my behalf. In my opinion this is how Christians and Muslims tell people to fuck off in a nice way. You have no evidence for your God's existence. Your God lives only in your imagination.
bigboy45454545 1 year ago
@bigboy45454545 evidence is all around you. you just need to look harder.
wngchnKid 1 year ago
@wngchnKid -"evidence is all around you. you just need to look harder."
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I require hard evidence for the existence of your Christian God. I'm a little funny about things like this. Let's say this is a court of law? Please provide your hard evidence for your God? I see you're talking with NephilimFree in this blog. Just more evidence that you're delusional with the talking snakes and rib-women and the other bullshit. Have fun with your nonsense.
bigboy45454545 1 year ago
@bigboy45454545 i am talking plainly here... look around you...everything that you see and don't see is created by God...here's an example from book of Genesis...1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
wngchnKid 1 year ago
@wngchnKid 3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
wngchnKid 1 year ago
@wngchnKid- I asked you for evidence for your God. You cannot provide any because your God is a myth. Believers are superstitious and unscientific people. Evidence for your beliefs is not required, this is called faith. Faith is wishful thinking without evidence being required. With what's know about the earth "Genesis 1" is a really embarrassing story for anyone to try and justify.
bigboy45454545 1 year ago
@bigboy45454545 let me ask you this...why is it important for you to see God?
wngchnKid 1 year ago
@wngchnKid "let me ask you this...why is it important for you to see God?"
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I know that no Gods exist so it's not important for me to see something which was never indicated. However without Gods existing in our universe Christians still live their lives on fundamental falsehoods that Gods are real. Making their actions highly flawed because of their false beliefs. A life wasted with nonsense is still a wasted life. Religion is a lie, even yours.
bigboy45454545 1 year ago
@bigboy45454545 you know that God doesn't exist? is that a fact? how would you prove this.
wngchnKid 1 year ago
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@wngchnKid "you know that God doesn't exist? is that a fact? how would you prove this."
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All Gods are magic. Magic breaks the laws of physics. I can't prove 100% that Gods don't exist, just like you can't prove 100% that the Dodo bird isn't extinct. Just like God you can look for the Dodo bird and never ever find it. How many rocks do you have to look under to know it's really gone? Your God never existed in the first place. Your God is a myth
bigboy45454545 1 year ago
@wngchnKid so if GOD DOESNT EXIST how did you get hear ? GOD does exist he is real look at all he did to save you from hell i pray you will open your eyes now before its to late amen
JesusLorloves 1 year ago
@wngchnKid pay attention to the phrase " God says"....
wngchnKid 1 year ago
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@bigboy45454545 what do you believe in then?
wngchnKid 1 year ago
@Flagrum3 Where's your evidence this cloth is anything retard? The site Shroud .com? Oh my you're stupid.
bigboy45454545 1 year ago
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bigboy45454545 1 year ago
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chek out my channel for my reconstruction of the face on the shroud :)
iceblued2005 1 year ago
The Gospel is only in fragmentary form today , so in that sense its lost but some prominent churchfathers quoted from it and they had it in its fulness, chek out my channel for my reconstruction of the face on the shroud :)
iceblued2005 1 year ago
A Long Lost Gospel PROVES The Shroud Of Turin To Be Genuine.
Gospel according to the Hebrews. From St.Jerome (341-420 AD) "De Viris Illustribus 2", The Gospel called according to the Hebrews which was recently transcribed by me into Greek and Latin, which Origen frequently uses, records after the resurrection of the Savior: And when the Lord had given the linen cloth to the servant of the priest, he went to James and appeared to him.
iceblued2005 1 year ago
@iceblued2005 Well if it was long lost ..how did you find it? :)
themar2533 1 year ago
A shroud that fell loosely over a contoured human face would adhere to the contours of the face. Thus, the space between, eg, the tip of nose and the cheek bones would be distorted when you removed the shroud. It would have a spread out, flattened look to it. Perspective would be lost. This could happen only if the shroud was held on a flat plane above the face, allowing accurate perspective to be maintained. Also, consider the tip-to-tip heads (front to back): It would be solid, not pointed
202rickh 1 year ago
its from the 14th century and its the face of Jaques du Molay......... He is actually alive on this imprint. Its image is known has been reproduced by 2 australian scientists. Its imprint was originally created by fluke...... Its the result of sweat, adrenalin. He was wrapped up and left in a coma, he was actually burned alive 7 years after this
Enferushostis 1 year ago
@Enferushostis> Haha what a retarded theory! Some of you non-believers are even more gullible then I thought! If you could believe that ridicuious theory, you are an idiot, plane and simple.
Flagrum3 1 year ago
@Flagrum3 You are obviously thick as shit and believe..................Who is it then, come on shit for brains who is it, where is it from? Why is it elongated? Why is the left shoulder dislocated?? ANSWER ME YOU ARROGANT THICK FUCK!!!
Enferushostis 1 year ago
@Enferushostis >Obviously you are of mind of a child, having to revert to obscenity instead of facts for your argument! Taking your 'facts' from a novel written by a simpleton! ...Answers to all your questions; you could find by educating yourself and reading papers by experts instead of reading 'fictional' novels...there are hundreds of peer-reviewed and scientific articles on this matter, if you 'cared' to learn.
Flagrum3 1 year ago
@Enferushostis Your "logic" is thus: "I don't know who it is...therefore it's Jesus". My goodness. And drop the profanity, if you're trying to make a serious argument.
202rickh 1 year ago
@202rickh It is NOT Jesus.....Thats my whole point!!
Enferushostis 1 year ago
@Enferushostis Oh....in that case your logic is thus: "I don't know who it is...therefore it's Jaques du Molay". Either way, knock off the potty mouth.
202rickh 1 year ago
@202rickh You have no idea at all. Just go along with the flow..............
Enferushostis 1 year ago
@Enferushostis Realyy? You're going with this condescending approach? Is that the best you can do? A true sign of how insecure someone is in their point is how aggressive they act.
202rickh 1 year ago
@202rickh Ok rick......you tell me who it is, how old it is, who is on it, ok. Once your done I will shoot you down in flames, trust me ;)
Enferushostis 1 year ago
@Enferushostis I put my two cents into this thread earlier, Enfer. Scan for "A shroud that fell loosely" and you'll see it. Looking forward to the shoot down. Why so intense, dude? And I have no idea who (if anyone) it is....never claimed to. I come down (obviously) on the "it's fake" side of the argument.
202rickh 1 year ago
this guy is a deuch bag, just lookin at him.
see him saying jesus ancestor's? blasphemous bigot. working for the dark forces behind the media
nico3212 1 year ago
A conflict of evidence has emerged because people like to believe in miracles, and they don't give up easy. Which is stupid, but very human.
Cylka 1 year ago
@Cylka -Another neophyte,The conflict of evidence has emerged because every detail of the Shroud but one; (the C-14 dating) points to the Shroud being from atleast the 5th century or older and new scientific evidence prooves the c14 dating was in error...Not a miracle but science! So not stupid, which maybe describes you, whom obviously has not done any real study on the subject.
Flagrum3 1 year ago 2
@Cylka are you jewish ? or an actual demon?
idiomas123ify 1 year ago
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God, Our Lord and King Jesus Christ let bless You!!!
It`s the TRUE and everyone should compare that 3d picture(Manoppello) to the 2d. shroud of Turin to be sure not some fictional models!!!
Poor face of God beaten to death for our sins!
How people can say they don`t love Him-they dont have heart?
JezusSlave 1 year ago 3
John 20:7"the face-cloth which had been on His head, not lying with the linen wrappings, but rolled up in a place by itself." in other words..2 pieces not 1 shroud. It's fake!!!
submitted1 1 year ago
@submitted1 The bible does indicate two pieces. But they could of been sewed together as well. But even if they do get to carbon date the Shroud again, and it confirms it to be 2000 years old, that still will not prove it is Jesus. I do believe in Jesus, but this Shroud could be from anybody that was crucified. I would like to believe that it is the Shroud of Jesus. I don't think anybody will be able to prove it either way.
TheScottwalls 1 year ago
@TheScottwalls They carbon dated a corner that was burned in a fire. Not only could have it been repaired but it could have changed the make up for the carbon dating, because it was changed at a different period.
There are two pieces the face cloth, and the shroud. That guy is just stupid and hopes he won't pay for his sins like everyone else.
PoPolilB 1 year ago
@submitted1 Yes there were two the one cloth that covered the face, and the large linen shroud... please do more reading u ignorant :)
PoPolilB 1 year ago
@submitted1 Moron.... youre a simpleton neophyte... the second piece, the face cloth, is being held in Spain since 600 AD at Oviedo church and its called the Sudarium of Oviedo... go get your facts straight you stupid illiterate...
RioSurfingGeorge 1 year ago
@RioSurfingGeorge 600 AD as in the year the phony thing happened
submitted1 1 year ago
@submitted1 actually there was 2 pieces if u watch the full video that was played on this special, they actually have the other piece,that was on the face and it matches this piece this one was wrapped around and that 1 on the face its amazing.
isaacM1979 1 year ago
The C-14 samples were taken from an area of the cloth re-woven with cotton.
MrZetterlund777 1 year ago 2
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the enemies of the truth are all the same...
doggybag4caviar 1 year ago
The enemies of the truth are all the same...
doggybag4caviar 1 year ago
Please watch The Shroud Of Turin Michael Jude
mjtf1113 1 year ago
the shroud took place in the bible here: John 20:7
MrOxidizer 1 year ago