The principle of rocket-arrow was around in Asia for centuries, but it was not until Chosun Dynasty in Korea in 1500's where they successfully devised as a mass destructive weapon. Unlike the modern rockets, with Hwacha, you can see the spectacle of 1000 flaming rockets coming right at you. It must have been terrifying.
Anyway it's certain that Hwacha was one of many firearms in Korean Joseon dynasty. Joseon was once one of the most advanced countries though extremely ideological Confucianism and political corruption drove 500-year Korean Joseon dynasty to collapse.
Korea adjoined China for thousands of years. Do not forget it. Anyway, Korean and Manchus had seminomadic tradutuib, whereas Chinese had agricultural tradition. Not only linguistically but even culturally Altaic Korean and Altaic Manchus origins are totally different from Sinitic Chinese.
@KoriSenbay oh my god that altaic "brothership" again... do the ppl back at that time have an idea of what "altaic" means? As I said Altaic is loosely founded... if u try that to corner China u r just wrong... and r u actually talking about cavemen period or Jurchen period?
@KoriSenbay and don't make accusations like what most kor nationalists do... they always make accusations even though they r the one who does it... There is something called expert papers on this. I don't think u read it at all...
@KoriSenbay .... I am srry the history book "The History of Jurchens Kim dynasty" (金史)is not written by mongols. Every dynasty have 史官 meaning history recorder. They record history for the next dynasty to edit and made into books. Therefore, "金史" is actually written by Jurchen, but edited by both Chin and mongol into books.
It is ridiculous that you're trying to deny the real true history. Altaic-origin Korean said it, Altaic-origin Mongolian said it, Altaic-origin Jurchens/Manchus themselves said it. But only Sinitic-origin Chinese who were conquered by the invaders deny it.
@KoriSenbay It is funny that when talking about relationships, nationalist korz always try to bring together the Altaic family and try to corner China, yet when talking about nomadic barbarians and culture, Korz try to state how special and different their culture is... Altaic family is actually a losely founded family, their cultures are different and their language r actually quite different. Why do nationalists Korz always bring out this actually non-existing altaic "brothership"
@KoriSenbay Second, is it me or u that is denying the real history? I already gave u sources but u just take wat u want, and leave out the ones that disproves ur claims. U said Jin dynasty is devrived from Korean Royal Surname "Kim"(金), but according to Jurchen's own record, that name means "gold". U said Hambo's last name is "Kim"(金), but according to all sources except "满洲源流考" his last name is “完颜”。 according to the most official record “金史”, Jurchens came from ones who were vassal to koryo
@canadianfirzen No, it's not me. Jurchens/Manchus themselves said that Jurchens Kim dynasty came from Korean Silla dynasty and the name Jurchens Kim dynasty was also derived from the surname of Korean Silla dynasty (Kim). Don't get me wrong.
And I think you exactly know that Kim literally means gold.
@KoriSenbay "Kim" is a last name, do last names all mean something? I don't think so for example "Wang"(王) literally means "king", but do u mean ppl with that last name r kings? Wang does not have any meanings as a last name. Ok, Koryo kings' last name is "Wang", and according to some scholars' study with his ancestry, Koryo's king royal family should be Chin. However, did Chin claim Koryo dynasty of Korea is Chin history? So stop claiming Jurchen is kor...
@canadianfirzen Wanan was an indigenous Jurchens tribe who intermarried with Kims and became Queen's family, while Kim was from Korea and became King's family. Wanan was a tribal name and Kim was the surname of Jurchens Kim dynasty. That's why Chinese also agree that Wanan Olchul (完颜兀朮) is the same with Kim Olchul (金兀朮).
Korean historians who study about the ancestor of Jurchens Kim dynasty also suggest that he was one of the princes of the last king of Korean Silla dynasty.
@KoriSenbay Ya I know what Korean historians had suggested, and in fact I've seen KBS's documentary on Jin dynasty. And I am actually literally smiling and out of words. It makes me go |||v__v. It is filled with nationalism. I am not saying that Chin scholars don't have nationalism. The diff is Chin call them minority ethnic of China, but Kor nationalists call all of those ppl in that region Kor, even though their passports clearly have a letter "China" on them...
@canadianfirzen If you watched the documentary, you know that Chinese historians also said that Wanan was the same with Kim between the royal family in Jurchens Kim dynasty.
@KoriSenbay Third it is Sinitic-origin Chin who said Hambo is Kor first, but at that time Jurchen is a vassal to Kor, later Jurchen became vassal of Liao(遼) dynasty, therefore "女真虽旧属高丽，不复相通者久矣" meaning although Jurchen once were vassal to Koryo, but they no longer contact for a long time, according to official record "金史". Then Kor historian recorded this "Hambo is a Kor monk named “今俊”" in"高麗史" ，but even he is doubtful about this so he recorded "或又雲meaning somebody told him this as alternative.
@canadianfirzen Well, both Korean and Jurchens/Manchus who are directly related to the ancestor of Jurchens Kim dynasty said that he was Korean who migrated from Korean territory.
@KoriSenbay "Well, both Korean and Jurchens/Manchus who are directly related to the ancestor of Jurchens Kim dynasty "
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wow u r completely putting ur prejudice into ur arguments, u r assuming u r right at the first place, and u try to mess around my logic as well... it is very creative. Jurchens never said their ancestor r kor, don't take the mother country thing seriously, becuz Kor during Choson also called China the father country.
@KoriSenbay It is not Jurchen it is Manchu ok?? They r in two periods of time... Their name changed during that period. Jurchens never said they r Kor...... and u no wat? Kor once called Chin father country as well, so don't take it seriously it is very political!
@canadianfirzen The origin of Jurchen/Manchu is closely related to Korean based on history books. And Jurchens leader OFFICIALLY said that their ancestors came from Korea and do you really think that it is just political? One more thing, If Korea called China father country, it's just political because Altaic-origin Korean have totally different origin from Sinitic-origin Chinese.
@KoriSenbay Not only Jurchens (strictly ruling class) considered Korea as motherland but they also officially said that their ancestors migrated from Korean. This is the point.
@KoriSenbay“满洲源流考" is making up a story that Jurchens' ancestor is Kor, and Jin dynasty's name derived from "Kim". They wish it to be true becuz the reason for writing that book to glorify Manchus' long past, and trying to cover some facts. However, it does not mean it is true according to jurchen Jin dynasty's“宗祖实录" their ancestor is a Jurchen living in Koryo... U can't say what they wished to make u think is the truth...
@canadianfirzen creating? making up? "The Origin of Manchus was written by the emperor and the nobles of Manchus Empire based on various official history books. It's not a joke. Do not make them morons.
@KoriSenbay ok last time I said it out of memory, I found a fault in it, so I will resay it again to make it right. "满洲源流考”is done in "乾隆" period, which I always thought to be the 5th emperor becuz I always leave out Nurhachi. However, I still have strong doubts that the emperor wrote this... R u trying to mess around with the logic? Just becuz it is done during "乾隆" period，it doesn't mean that it is wrote by 乾隆 or said by 乾隆. And theonly official history should be "清史".
@KoriSenbay I am not making them morons. The book tried to cover facts like Ming dynasty's rule and 建州三衛 etc and etc. It is considered a good book for studying relationships and Northeastern ethnics, but it makes up stories like Hampu Kim or Kim dynasty, which is completely bizarre... How do u know what sources they drew upon?
@KoriSenbay culture, living style, written language, level of civilization, etc.... Kor is more similar China than to Jurchens... if that is political, I wonder why would Jurchen not be political?
@KoriSenbay it is Manchus who said their ancestor is Kor, but it is actually build upon nothing. Don't just take what u need, and disregard all the stuff that r disproving it.
@canadianfirzen The important point is that Manchus themselves thought their empire was successor state to Jurchens Kim dynasty and the ancestor of Kim dynasty was from Korea. That's why at first Manchus also named their empire "Kim" though it was changed to Daicing (Cheong or Qing) later.
@KoriSenbay and also it is just reasonable that "大金" is a continuation of "金", I don't know how do u relate it to this topic. And this "满洲源流考" r u sure it is done by the sixth emperor? I've always had doubt on this.... I believe this book is written during the time of " 乾隆", it is written by two Manchu beaurocrats, but I have strong doubt that “乾隆“actually said this..... the reason for writing this book is to show how long glorious Manchus' history is. It also covers some facts at same time
@KoriSenbay Then "滿洲源流考", a book that is trying to glorify manchus' past, further expanded this and said Hambo is Kor, his last name is "Kim" and Jin dynasty is derived from the surname "Kim". This story is created out of no where, and its intentions r very apparent. In fact, this is only source u can draw upon, becuz all other resources can be seen as supporting him as a Jurchen living in Korea.
@canadianfirzen Oh really? Therefore, Great Manchus emperor stated that the ancestor of Jurchens Kim dynasty was Korean because of glorify Manchus' past? Manchus even created it because of glorify Manchus' past? I really didn't know it. :-)
1126 AD Jurchens conquered Song China and started to rule northern China.
1127 AD The remnants of Song China founded another dynasty called South Song in southern China.
1279 AD Mongols conquered South Song and they started to rule the whole Chinese territory. (Mongols conquered Jurchens Kim dynasty in 1234 AD and occupied northern China.)
@KoriSenbay Jurchen didn't know how to rule at first, therefore, they installed a dynasty called "大齐", later after discovering "Chi" couldn't meet their expectations it is when they started to rule, and of course still using former Chin officials and system. And u r just mixing with logic here cuz Song is not refounded. Southern Song is just a continuation of Northern Song. The ppl r still there. It is just a change of emperor, territory, and capital, but Song was never annhilated.
Mongolian historians wrote the history book called "The History of Jurchens Kim dynasty" and it's also one of the official history books in People's Republic of China. The book clearly states that the ancestor of Jurchens Kim dynasty is Hambo Kim, Korean.
The 6th emperor and the high-ranking officials of Manchus Empire wrote the history book for their ancestors' that is Jurchens/Manchus origin. Based on the book, there's no doubt that Jurchens Kim dynasty came from Korean Silla dynasty.
@KoriSenbay The official history "The history of Jurchens Kim dynasty" is probably "金史" as I know it becuz it is the only official one. The book doesn't state ancestor of Jin dynasty as Hambo "Kim",it only states that he "从高丽来" meaning he migrated out of Koryo, but it doesn't tell what group of ppl he belongs,nor does it tell his last name is "Kim". According to Jin dynasty's own record "祖宗实录", Hambo was a Jurchen that lived in Koryo, well again it is based on legends, but Jurchen's own legend
@KoriSenbay In fact, the only record that states Hambo is a Kor is "满洲源流考", well it is considered a good book to study relationships. However, the book's main purpose is to glorify the Manchus' past history, and trying to cover some facts. According to facts that is known today, the Hambo "Kim" is merely a creation out of no where. This story is not based on any of the previous records, therefore, I would say it is anything but true. If it is based on something it is predicted to be rumors
@canadianfirzen Well, Manchus who conquered China and ruled there for hundreds of years clearly state that the ancestor of Jurchens Kim dynasty came from "Korea", that is Korean Silla dynasty.
"Jurchens Kim dynasty came from Korean Silla dynasty and there's no doubt that the name Jurchens Kim dynasty was also derived from the royal surname of Korean Silla dynasty (Kim)", the 6th emperor and the high-ranking officials of Manchus Empire said together.
@KoriSenba During Shilla's time Jurchens submitted to Korea, later they submitted to Liao(遼) dynasty. therefore, Hambo who probably lived in 冷山, is said to be migrated out of "Korea", but the very same record states that his last name is 完顔, it is actually not a name of Shilla or Koryo but a name of Jurchen. Therefore, he could be considered Shilla or Koryo citizen(if there is citizenship at that time) for sure, but it doesn't mean that his last name is "Kim", which is merely a creation
@KoriSenbay according to official record “辽史”(this part recorded by Jurchen Jin dynasty)， "Jin"（金）dynasty's name is taken because Liao(遼) dynasty's name means 镔铁 meaning wrought iron, and 金 means gold which doesn't corrupt like wrought iron. "Jin" is derived from Kor last name "Kim" is recorded in the same book “满洲源流考“，it is nothing but a creation out of no where. This book is only trying to glorify Manchus' past. a lot of its content is merely Koreation.....
The 6th emperor of Manchus Empire himself clearly stated that the name of the Jurchens Empire (Kim dynasty) was derived from the royal family (Kim) of Korean Silla dynasty.
And I don't understand what you're saying. You should not distort history. Jurchens Kim dynasty ruled northern China since they conquered Song China.
@KoriSenbay what I am saying is the source u've given me is not really considered correct. The "name of the Jurchens Empire (Kim dynasty) was derived from the royal family (Kim) of Korean Silla dynasty" is not based on any of the previous records, it is probably made up or derived from rumors and legends. Also, there were rumors in Korea back then that states the founder of Jurchen empire was a monk in Korea. Therefore, that record is probably derived from rumors like that.
@KoriSenbay Jin dynasty did rule northern China, but u said by 1126AD they already started ruling northern China, that is not true, however, becuz they r mostly illiterate they were unable to rule China, so they founded a dynasty called "Chi", whose emperor is a former Song dynasty official.
Jurchens Kim dynasty conquered Chinese Song dynasty, the invading armies occupied the capital of Song China and captured the king. The conquerors finally conquered China in 1126 AD and they started to rule there, though the remnants founded another dynasty (South Song) in southern China next year.
By the way, South Song was also conquered by Mongols in 1279 AD.
@KoriSenbay U kept saying Jurchen "Kim" dynasty conquered "Chin" Song dynasty... R u trying to imply that "Kor" conquered "Chin" again? The invading armies did defeat Northern Song and so Song's capital shifted to the South, and Song's territory shrinked, but Song still exists. U used the word "conquered", it is technically wrong. In 1126AD Jin didn't start to rule China, in fact, they didn't know how to rule China so they founded a dynasty called "Chi".
Jurchens/Manchurs conquered China twice. One is Song China and the other is Ming China. Jurchens conquered China (Song) and Manchus conquered China (Ming) again.
@KoriSenbay First of all, last time we talked about the Jurchen Kim. I pointed out ur source, but I didn't finish. The source has some problems, becuz it is not based on any previous sources and is created out of nowhere. Therefore, majority just disregard it as official history. So the Jurchen Kim thing(it should be Jin not Kim) is not recognized widely.
Secondly, Jin dynasty didn't conquer Song. I don't know wether u r talking about North Song or Song as a whole. Song was not conquered
About as retarded as no one but hardcore history buffs knowing jackshit about the Imjin War, and how they used this to absolute effect in their ships.
Well. Chinese say that Mongols empire should belong to their history and Kublai Khan was a Chinese emperor. It makes Mongolians extremely angry and I can understand their feeling because Chinese're trying to distort not only Mongolian history but Korean, Manchus, Uighurs, Tibetans, and other ethincs' history. How can Hwacha be a Chinese invention? If Chinese had shut the fuck up and had just enjoyed this video nothing like this sutpid ass argument would have started here.
@MrFabricate09 the chinese invented those arrows. koreans put them in carts. the original chinese arrows were extremely inaccurate but the korean version compensated with numbers
@MrFabricate09 ........what a lame accuse... Chin don't claim kublai khan was a Chin, they say they r mongolian emperor who ruled China. Yuan is part of CHin official history, what the hell is wrong is that?? and China only claimed about the Yuan not the whole mongol empire. Is Jap occupation of Korea not part of Korean history? Stop trying to mess around with foreigners u can fool foreigners, but u can't fool Jap and Chin. Korz like to bring other countries into their altaic group....
@MrFabricate09 Y would China want to distort Kor, Mongol, Manchu, uighur, and tibetan. They were not really worth distorting stop bringing new countries into the argument u Korz. Stop trying to fool mongols. How can Hwacha be a Kor invention??? Korz didn't even know about gunpowder back then, but when they had gun powder they suddenly have this weapon? It doesn't happen that fast. Ok, another proof China had higher stage rockets, how come Korz don't have these? For China to copy Kor so lame
@MrFabricate09 It is Korz who always like to promote their culture and racist comments everywhere on the internet. Chin ppl were just angry and fought back... U can actually see Kor culture promoters in every forum promoting their distorted view of history, which were not really being peer-reviewed and agreed by scholars around the globe ok? Not all the historians around the globe agree with u guys... in fact, most of the scholars don't... Korz always try to prove they r superior so aggressiv
@canadianfirzen Well, China doesn't hate Korea? Korean's are very defending of their culture and history because there is very little of it left. The Japanese Occupation destroyed most of the Korean history told by Koreans. The only history left is spoken words, and written history from OTHER nations. Thus the Korean's try to defend any bit of history left in its story.
@WonderfulMrShyne All I can say is Korean's defend for its culture and history is very aggressive. And Chin don't hate Kor, they dislike them. Now how much culture and history the Jap destoried is very questionable, and u can't put an "if" in front of history. U can't say if the Jap didn't burn our history books, this and that would happen. History simply can't be assumed this way.
@WonderfulMrShyne now Koreans preserved their culture better than the Chin, what do you mean that there is very little of their culture left. Don't u know that there r very little of all cultures left? The chin culture was almost destoried completely during cultural revolution. Even today nobody cares about Chin culture at all in China. There aren't groups like the VANK in culture, who is actually trying to restore the honor of Chin ancestors. Cultural revolution destoried Chin beliefs
@canadianfirzen well i don't know what distortion, but if you mean some jerks who saying like "Goguryeo ruled the Whole World" with odd book called 桓檀古記, you need to know that we Koreans just hate them.
really, they're bunch of jerks.
and if you didn't mean them, then i don't know what to tell you bcuz i don't know what is distortion that you sayin, Chins and their Government distored our culture and history too. if you tell me about em maybe i can explain some.
@Xana6637 Well, there were a lot of distortions that make Chinese look really bad, which were not usually true, becuz Koreans always have this racial views, and they views r always being objective rather than subjective.... This Korean's hatre towards Chin is so severe that even Japan and Taiwan had things to say about it. I mean even though China and Japan are rivals, they both don't agree on a lot of things the Koreans said.
@Xana6637 now for example, the Chin said Gorguryeo is a MINORITY ETHNIC HISTORY OF THE NORTH EASTERN CHINA, the Koreans, on the other hand, r saying Chin said Gorguryeo is Chin history. I don't care what u say, and i don't have biase towards Koreans, but Koreans in recent years r getting more and more arrogant. That is why Chin r getting mad at Korz, Korz wanted to win Chin so much. The Chin didn't even care, until very recently when Korz openly laugh at Chin for losing Korz in soccer and stuf
@canadianfirzen well, China and Korea, both have bias about each other and that is racism. but why didn't you listened about both side before you make a decided to who's wrong..
i can surely say it is bcuz of the China government and Korean-Chinese and lots of mischief making. if you're Asian well you know it smells. anyway in this point you have to admit that you saw only a one's side. it just like a regionalism. why you claim like theres only one victim and perpetrator in this dirty relation?
@Xana6637 I've been studying this trend of Korean and China for years, what do u mean I am not listening to both sides. I've seen Korean TV shows and those kinda stuff... and in them i c a lot of Communist-like propagandas. U got to admit propaganda is very severe in both North and South Korea. The problem is that propaganda r usually done by the Chin gov, but in Korea it is also done by the civilians.Civilians like to spread propaganda everywhere now that is really scary, becuz too patriotic
@Xana6637 Now, the relationship b/w China and Korea is, China admires Korea's development, BECUZ CHINA DIDN"T DEVELOP THAT WAY. As u know it's a communist thing. China admires Korea, but then China started to learn the arrogant side of Korea recently for both North and South Korean. North and South Korea r pretty arrogant. Especially the North, they will do the craziest stuff that u will ever imagine, keep pushing the limit and boundaries of China.
@Xana6637 The South is no different. Doesn't matter u agree or not, they r very arrogant. The main problem b/w China and Korea is Korea's arrogance. To simplify this, China was arrogant in ancient time, present day Korea become arrogant after they got rich, and China dislike and sneer at Korea. That is really what is undergoing in both societies. they simply dislike each other, but it is more like hatefor Kor. In terms of politics it's much more complicated, so we won't talk about that.
@canadianfirzen and thats not true that Goguryeo is belongs to China...
i think you got no big bias toward us. thanks for that. but sorry for say, seems you have a favoritism toward Chinese.
if you didn't see any historical, reasonable, verified evidence about this,
then don't treat the history like a Myth. the history belongs the country. i wonder it is real example for "Koreans" distorted "Chinese History". Think about this, seriously.....
@Xana6637 In terms of Goguryeo Koreans r being very arrogant again. In Korea's record, Korea didn't conquer other nations, this seemed to be very disturbin for some young Korz, becuz Koreans liked to believe they were a strong nation, that they were able to not only conquer China, but also "fend off" the mongols. I said that becuz a lot of Kor online say how they conquered China and stuff, which were shallow in terms of historical accuracy. They not only claim the Goguryeo but also manchu etc
@Xana6637 Korean historical TV drama and historical TV documentaries always like to somehow "beat" the Chin.Especially in the era of Gorguryeo, Korz seem to draw a lot of confidence from that, they always portrait Chin r being stupid and always beaten by them. Almost all of them r based on no historical fact, showin the Korean arrogance clearly.That is why even though Korean love stories r so good at earnin the tears of asian girls, but their historical drama fails to impress asian world.
@Xana6637 U no what is communist propaganda? That is communist progaganda. While the majority of the Chin ppl r rethinkin about chanting Mao and communist party, the Koreans begin to chant and glorify their own history. Thx to Koreans, Chin finally started to self-examine. For example, even though Chin gov still promote the hate of Japan, but ppl now focuses on "why" the Jap were able to invade China, rather than "what" happened during the process. Korz on the other hand r just too patriotic
@Xana6637 I don't treat history like a myth, and I agree the history belongs to the country. So would Korz stop their racism like: "Korz taught Chin how to cultivate crops", "Korz (the northerners) beat up China", "Korz were DongYi who invented Chin characters and taught Chin how to write", and some Korz were like: "Korz invented go chess, becuz if Chin invented it, then y is Chin bad in it?"..... These r seriously flawed arguments done by Kor ppl.
Unfortunately chinese are being manipulated by the PRC media. See a summary of the myths being spread in chinahush .. /2010/06/25/national-sentiment-controlled-by-rumors/
The way it goes is that chinese people are "told" by the media that koreans did something and engage in racist acts because they think they're being attacked, but the truth is that these stories are false.
@dsk yes maybe I know that, but it doesn't change the fact that many young Kor nationalist r saying those kinda of things, throughout the entire web nationalist Kor ppl r spreading those, can u say they r not?... it's not that I am supporting verbal harassment from the Chin or siding with them, and it is not that i am too biased to see the truth or watever. It is kinda like an obligation to fight back. There shouldn't be just one voice rite?
@canadianfirzen This is the internet, unfortunately there's people masquarading as other nationalities in order to foster bad feelings. This includes pretending to be korean and attacking chinese to stir things up.
I would stress again that the PRC had an approval rate of 60+% before all this blew up .. why would then start attacking chinese out of the blue as you think?
Consider that the PRC press has a strong hand in propagating these myths, if anything you should be angry at them.
@dsk It is pretty highly unlikely Chin pretended to be kor and stir trouble on the internet... anyways the history channel of Korea actually also make claims that r bizzare.. for example, Jin dynasty is formed by Korean?
@canadianfirzen According to the official histories of the Jin and Qing the ancestor Hanpu was a lesser member of the Silla royal family who's descendants unified the Jurchen. For further information see "Hanpu" in wikipedia
@canadianfirzen Wikipedia isn't the ultimate source, it's just the most convenient one for me to give to you on the topic because it covers it extensively. However if you take a look at the references list you can find more authoritative sources.
I initially found it difficult to believe the notion since it doesn't seem to be well-known, but having taken the time to research the topic (out of curiosity) it seems to be how the Jin and Qing regarded themselves
@dsk ya that's y i think wiki is somewat biased... becuz it emphaizes on one point of view, or else it contradict itself. It doesn't really show all the arguments about it
@canadianfirzen the man from Korean Kim family who migrated to Jurchen's area and the woman from Jurchens Wanan tribe intermarried. Both families founded Kim dynasty there in 1115 AD and the ancestor of Jurchens Kim dynasty is of course the man, his name is Hambo Kim.
@canadianfirzen Anyway almost all history books (actually all official history books as far as I know) which recorded about the origin of Jurchens Kim dynasty consistently state that the ancestor of Jurchens Kim dynasty is Hambo Kim who migrated from Korea. "The Origin of Manchu" is just one of the books. Manchus emperor who wrote the book even states that there's no doubt that the name Jurchens Kim dynasty was derived from the royal surname (Kim) of Korean Silla dynasty in his book.
@KoriSenbay Can u state all the official records u talked about? Maybe just several? "The Origin of Manchu" = "满洲源流考", so I think I see what ur source is...becuz that is the only source that says Hambo is from Kim family as far as I know. From ur incapability of understanding "满洲源流考", I think u can't even read Chin. Anyways, I am still curious how some Kor nationalists perceive this subject, and wat sources they draw the info from.
@canadianfirzen I said that it's almost all history books which recorded about the origin of Jurchens empire. Wow~ It seems that you know Chinese characters veeeery well~ much better than me. If so, how about finding the books and read it yourself? I hope that you don't make me waste my time again. Anyway here's my answer and it's the last:
An official history book called "The History of Jurchens Kim dynasty" written in Mongols Yuan dynasty states that The ancestor of Jurchens Kim dynasty is Hambo. He first migrated from Korea.
In Manchus empire the 6th emperor himself wrote a history book called "The Origin of Manchu" and published it 1777 AD. In the book, based on several history books such as "通考", "大金國志", and "金史", he states that there's no doubt that Jurchens Kim dynasty came from the royal family of Korean Silla dynasty and he thought that the name of the empire was also derived from Korean Silla dynasty.
@luibu1989 I think no one denies that all human beings are related to African genetically. I also think no one can deny Jurchens/Manchus origin is closely related to Korean. Manchus themselves stated that their origin is closely related to Korean in their history book which was written by the 6th emperor and the high-ranking officials of Manchus empire.
@freaktong Absolutely No. Although Jurchen/Manchus origin is closely related to Korean they were not Korean. Manchus were Manchus, Chinese are Chinese, and Korean are Korean. Jurchen/Manchus conquered China twice but it's not Korean history but Jurchen/Manchus history.
Although Korean asked for help and Ming had no choice but to help Korea, Ming army was hardly helpful to Korea during Imjin War. It's said that one of the reasons why the war lasted for 7 years is because of Ming army.
@KoriSenbay Just to correct Jurchen never conquered China twice. Even the Qing dynasty is with the major help from China's own traitors and internal conflict..... and the majority of the land conquered by Qing dynasty is also actually conquered by Han troops....
Manchus originated from sushen which came from Old chosun. Manchus is in same lineage and can trace back to Ye-maek tribes 5,000 years ago, you idiot!
Yes, archeleogically, there are just part of us. Nothing more. It's true Jurchen conquered China, let Southern Song begging for mercy. Qing decimated because of revolts and revolutions around China.
@Hananim91 Song's status is merely political.... It's very complicated and I will just boil it down to Song emperor don't want to unify with Northern China. The military system is very very corrupted that's why Song soldiers don't even have any combat ability in the beginning. However, overall the Song won 70% of all battles against Jurchen Jin. Jin was never able to conquer Song at all. In fact, Song often had the chance to retake Northern China often being recalled by believers of peace
LOL Song was already unified before the Khitans arrived. Song was probably one of golden ages of China, so miltiarilly it was in good standard. Song did not won any battles, their capital Kaifeng was destroyed by Jin, and led to tributary with the Jin afterwards. The Mongols hated Jurchens, so they agreed to ally with Southern Song, Both attacked Jin. After that, Mongols attacked Song which broken its alliance with Southern Song. ^___^
@Hananim91 militarily it might be a good standard for sure. However, it doesn't mean the soldiers were well-trained for combat. As I said in the beginning and in the end the Song military was corrupted, no soldiers were actually ready to battle. Plus, Song people were very very rich.. so as I said they don't need to fight while it is very economical for nomads to fight Song. In fact, Southern Song almost win all the time against the Jurchens so watever...
@Hananim91 He is not considered hero of Han Chinese. He is considered hero who fought Jin. China don't promote ethnic tension the way the Kor do. Kor is single ethnic so talking to them require patience. They just don't understand what countries with multi-races or multi-ethnic are like.
Yea, and Han Chavunism is not alive in China today?? Heck, Chinese gov't brainwash other ethnic people that they are Chinese. But in political stage, the Hans dominate almost everything. ^___^
@Hananim91 as if the Kor Chavunism is anything better than the Chin.... Han Chavunism exist somewhat I won't deny it.... but it's not the majority of the ppl most of the ppl don't even care. I happen to have a good friend who is half Manchu and half Han, yet his family chose to be Manchu. It is not a single case, in fact most of the families who have 1/2, 1/4, or even 1/8 I know changed to minority ethnic, becuz it is actually advantageous to be minority ethnic, Han don't get help or any sh**
There's no such thing as Korean Chavanism like in China. Korea has been Korean homeland since ancient times while China (Henan province aka. Chinese heartland) had been taken from different ethnic people many times. ^__^ Han chinese thinks they are superior because of Influences and some Good history, but in the end, I hope China realizes its nothing but colony of Han people.
@Hananim91 ^__^||| what you said is very Chavunic. Han Chin think they r superior? Where you draw that statement? it is such a strong statement here... Korea has been Korean homeland since ancient times... then how is China not Chin homeland? As I said don't try to promote ethnic tension. It can fool foreigners who don't know of anythin, but trying to fool ppl who actually know things from both sides? I don't think it works that way.
@Hananim91 I won't say conquered becuz most of states I guessed that r in your mind(if u know any), flowed in when China had internal conflict, and then they were forced to learn Chin language; changed from nomads to peasants; setting up laws that state that you have to intermarry with Chin; and eventually integrated into Chin society. I don't see that's very conquering to me.
Fourth, if you see YT videos about Korea, you would see Jap nationalists making insults to Koreans (and to Chinese if you haven't notice). It's obvious why Koreans (and Chinese) hate Japanese from past and to right now because of their gov't and such. So please, don't blame on Koreans for everything because of a fucken rumor spread by YOUR nationalists claims and also Japanese. ^__^
Internal conflict of what?? Three Kingdoms?? I'm not talking about three kingdoms. It's a proven fact that China was conquered by different ethnic people, if you like it or not. That's HISTORY, buddy, live with it. The only shit that China is doing, is making BS distortions about it.
@Hananim91 Trust me a lot of these tensions are very political, it is very hard to meet a mutual agreement. Becuz ppl r brought up this way, and they will always fail to question the very knowledge that are engraved into their mind. Both Kor and Chin r raised up this way, the educators always give you a perspective of other nations keeps harrasing us, and we've been humiliated. These are not always true, it is just a perspective that the nation want you to believe in.
@Hananim91 Obviously it is internal conflict,Xianbei,Khitans so on later all became part of china,during Tang dynasty,numerous highly sinisized xianbei were promoted to generals/officers such as zhangsun wuji,yuchijingde(who later became the door god of chinese) so on
So according to your logic, Korean generals like Li Zhengji, Gao Xianzhi, etc. are Chinese, so it is obvious that Koreans will later become part of China? Just like Xianbei and Khitans??? hahahhahha XD
@Hananim91 and plz don't try to promote ethnic tension in China, I know that's what many Korz love to see. Although I hate the Chin gov, but some of their policies actually r beneficial for the minority ethnic. And actually in political stage, u have equal chances to be in the gov. Han only dominate in number, but they usually don't abuse the other minorities. Big ethnics in China usually rule themselves as well so you have seperate governments for them as well...
@Hananim91 as I said real things are actually a bit different, and politics is dark. And things are actually different from what you wish. The ethnic tension is not as strong as what most ppl think. And I won't comment on Tibetans and Uighurs as things would drag extremely long and we won't agree with each other forever, becuz I know the story from both sides, not just the somewat inaccurate info from the west. And that doesn't have anything related to the topics we were focusing on before
I know today's China would be considered a threat to Korea and to other nations as well. China would be friends with Korea if the communists haven't won, they might be friends and if China never volunteered to help NK in our civil war.
@Hananim91 Ya I know. Actually one month ago I talked to a Kor, and he/she said Korz hate Chin becuz Chin volunteered in the NK war, and that's one reason why I hate the Chin gov. Becuz communist actually took over China by cheating on Chin themselves. They kept lying in order to make their system alive. I've personally experienced this. My parents were victims of communist stupid decisions.However, even if NK and SK unites, they will hate China even more.
If China backs away from being involve with NK, then SK might not be 80% anti-Chinese right now. Chinese is considered the scum of the planet in Korea, not kidding, go to Korea and they might be 2 out of 3 anti-Chinese in Korea. Plus, with that confucious is Korean rumor circulating in Chinese media, the Koreans had it enough with Chinese. We can't trust Chinese anymore, that's the truth. If China is supportive to Korea reunification, maybe Koreans change mind. Alight?
@Hananim91 Oh my god... you know what Chin are also victims of communist. CCP is still lying to the Chin ppl, and info from outside is scarce and often being filtered. Sino-Jap war costed 18million lives in 8 yrs, but in 3 yrs 43million Chin ppl starved to death under the communist gov rule. With the stupid Communist regime China stopped developing for like 30 yrs, and even went way poorer than what they started with. After that u even have to reconstruct the infrastructure.
@Hananim91 Even now the gov is still corrupted. Their policies were never acknowledged outside China. They are always allied with those evil countries like NK etc. They supported the communist movement in many countries, so those countries are all gonna hate China. If NK and SK unites, it is gonna drag Kor economy so down, and after realizing what is really going on the NK would also hate China.So it is like in a really weird situation becuz it is communist and it is supportin the NK mad dog
You are funny, firstly I don't care if China was raped by Japan, when in Korea, pratically we Koreans had to fight against Japs, alight?? Don't make any accusations and victum playing, when your gov't is harassing other people just like tibetans who wanted independence, etc.. You chinks are just hypocrities. This is what I have told other people since 1900s. Chinese are just hypocrities, nothing much.
@Hananim91 well see again chavunism... watever..... as I said talkin to Kor nationalists really requires patience, even if I've been talkin patiently like that, they just don't buy it. There is never mutual agreement, but just new accusations and new conflicts, so instead of wasting time on hating Chin, u guys should pay more attention ur NK mad dog brothers. They are actually a threat to Chin as well.
@Hananim91 in fact the whole society is corrupted thus makin China's infrastructure fragile. If the gov of a country don't adjust immediately from going into the wrong way, it is gonna make the whole country collapse and goin into grave with them...
@Hananim91 bitch korean idiot,Song was superior in economy,technology and culture but it was weak militarily! Cuz the founding emperor saw the bad effects of using too many military people & generals/troops with non han chinese origins during Tang dynasty
knee blaster
leviathancom 3 weeks ago
The Hwacha is still my favorite thing that they've ever done.
KingOfKatamari 3 months ago 4
HWACHA!! :D
KoreanJohnnyLee 3 months ago
화차 꼬추
Csozombie 3 months ago
I kind of wish I had a couple of these =/
JonnyHebrew 6 months ago
The principle of rocket-arrow was around in Asia for centuries, but it was not until Chosun Dynasty in Korea in 1500's where they successfully devised as a mass destructive weapon. Unlike the modern rockets, with Hwacha, you can see the spectacle of 1000 flaming rockets coming right at you. It must have been terrifying.
db6636 8 months ago 14
the british narator guy i much cooler...just saying.
JonnyAinsley27 9 months ago
What, no safety shield for the camera guy?
HelloChief117 9 months ago 4
@HelloChief117 The ones that aren't behind safety shields are stationary cameras with no one operating them.
Vlaeder 5 months ago
Anyway it's certain that Hwacha was one of many firearms in Korean Joseon dynasty. Joseon was once one of the most advanced countries though extremely ideological Confucianism and political corruption drove 500-year Korean Joseon dynasty to collapse.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay Altaic is a disputed language group not a racial group. 2 different things my friend.
Anyways this Hwacha is a rip off of Chinese invention.
DragonOfQin 3 weeks ago
Why watermark content you didn't make?
rmcrom 1 year ago 65
@rmcrom This is like Ebaums world all over again
ibainesy 5 months ago
Korea adjoined China for thousands of years. Do not forget it. Anyway, Korean and Manchus had seminomadic tradutuib, whereas Chinese had agricultural tradition. Not only linguistically but even culturally Altaic Korean and Altaic Manchus origins are totally different from Sinitic Chinese.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay oh my god that altaic "brothership" again... do the ppl back at that time have an idea of what "altaic" means? As I said Altaic is loosely founded... if u try that to corner China u r just wrong... and r u actually talking about cavemen period or Jurchen period?
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
"The Origin of Manchu" was written by the 6th emperor and 43 high-ranking officials or Manchus Empire. Have you ever read it? If not, don't doubt it.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay Have u ever read it?? If not don't support it....
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen Don't make me laugh.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@canadianfirzen You have never read the book "The Origin of Manchu" but you're trying to talk about it with me, right? WT...
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay and don't make accusations like what most kor nationalists do... they always make accusations even though they r the one who does it... There is something called expert papers on this. I don't think u read it at all...
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
In fact, mongols didn't say anything on this, and so were the Jurchens...
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen The official history book "The History of Jurchens Kim dynasty" was written by Mongolian historians after Mongols conquered China.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay .... I am srry the history book "The History of Jurchens Kim dynasty" (金史)is not written by mongols. Every dynasty have 史官 meaning history recorder. They record history for the next dynasty to edit and made into books. Therefore, "金史" is actually written by Jurchen, but edited by both Chin and mongol into books.
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
It is ridiculous that you're trying to deny the real true history. Altaic-origin Korean said it, Altaic-origin Mongolian said it, Altaic-origin Jurchens/Manchus themselves said it. But only Sinitic-origin Chinese who were conquered by the invaders deny it.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay It is funny that when talking about relationships, nationalist korz always try to bring together the Altaic family and try to corner China, yet when talking about nomadic barbarians and culture, Korz try to state how special and different their culture is... Altaic family is actually a losely founded family, their cultures are different and their language r actually quite different. Why do nationalists Korz always bring out this actually non-existing altaic "brothership"
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay Second, is it me or u that is denying the real history? I already gave u sources but u just take wat u want, and leave out the ones that disproves ur claims. U said Jin dynasty is devrived from Korean Royal Surname "Kim"(金), but according to Jurchen's own record, that name means "gold". U said Hambo's last name is "Kim"(金), but according to all sources except "满洲源流考" his last name is “完颜”。 according to the most official record “金史”, Jurchens came from ones who were vassal to koryo
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen No, it's not me. Jurchens/Manchus themselves said that Jurchens Kim dynasty came from Korean Silla dynasty and the name Jurchens Kim dynasty was also derived from the surname of Korean Silla dynasty (Kim). Don't get me wrong.
And I think you exactly know that Kim literally means gold.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay "Kim" is a last name, do last names all mean something? I don't think so for example "Wang"(王) literally means "king", but do u mean ppl with that last name r kings? Wang does not have any meanings as a last name. Ok, Koryo kings' last name is "Wang", and according to some scholars' study with his ancestry, Koryo's king royal family should be Chin. However, did Chin claim Koryo dynasty of Korea is Chin history? So stop claiming Jurchen is kor...
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen Wanan was an indigenous Jurchens tribe who intermarried with Kims and became Queen's family, while Kim was from Korea and became King's family. Wanan was a tribal name and Kim was the surname of Jurchens Kim dynasty. That's why Chinese also agree that Wanan Olchul (完颜兀朮) is the same with Kim Olchul (金兀朮).
Korean historians who study about the ancestor of Jurchens Kim dynasty also suggest that he was one of the princes of the last king of Korean Silla dynasty.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay 金兀术..... omg, ya it appears in theatres a lot... as if it means "Kim".... it is not a last name ok?
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay Ya I know what Korean historians had suggested, and in fact I've seen KBS's documentary on Jin dynasty. And I am actually literally smiling and out of words. It makes me go |||v__v. It is filled with nationalism. I am not saying that Chin scholars don't have nationalism. The diff is Chin call them minority ethnic of China, but Kor nationalists call all of those ppl in that region Kor, even though their passports clearly have a letter "China" on them...
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen If you watched the documentary, you know that Chinese historians also said that Wanan was the same with Kim between the royal family in Jurchens Kim dynasty.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay ..... Basically, majority of ppl don't agree, and who knows wether u guys have paid them?
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay Third it is Sinitic-origin Chin who said Hambo is Kor first, but at that time Jurchen is a vassal to Kor, later Jurchen became vassal of Liao(遼) dynasty, therefore "女真虽旧属高丽，不复相通者久矣" meaning although Jurchen once were vassal to Koryo, but they no longer contact for a long time, according to official record "金史". Then Kor historian recorded this "Hambo is a Kor monk named “今俊”" in"高麗史" ，but even he is doubtful about this so he recorded "或又雲meaning somebody told him this as alternative.
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen Well, both Korean and Jurchens/Manchus who are directly related to the ancestor of Jurchens Kim dynasty said that he was Korean who migrated from Korean territory.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay "Well, both Korean and Jurchens/Manchus who are directly related to the ancestor of Jurchens Kim dynasty "
--------------
wow u r completely putting ur prejudice into ur arguments, u r assuming u r right at the first place, and u try to mess around my logic as well... it is very creative. Jurchens never said their ancestor r kor, don't take the mother country thing seriously, becuz Kor during Choson also called China the father country.
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen Well, Jurchens clearly said that they (strictly the ruling class) came from Korea and they think Korea is like their motherland.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay It is not Jurchen it is Manchu ok?? They r in two periods of time... Their name changed during that period. Jurchens never said they r Kor...... and u no wat? Kor once called Chin father country as well, so don't take it seriously it is very political!
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen The origin of Jurchen/Manchu is closely related to Korean based on history books. And Jurchens leader OFFICIALLY said that their ancestors came from Korea and do you really think that it is just political? One more thing, If Korea called China father country, it's just political because Altaic-origin Korean have totally different origin from Sinitic-origin Chinese.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay Not only Jurchens (strictly ruling class) considered Korea as motherland but they also officially said that their ancestors migrated from Korean. This is the point.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay“满洲源流考" is making up a story that Jurchens' ancestor is Kor, and Jin dynasty's name derived from "Kim". They wish it to be true becuz the reason for writing that book to glorify Manchus' long past, and trying to cover some facts. However, it does not mean it is true according to jurchen Jin dynasty's“宗祖实录" their ancestor is a Jurchen living in Koryo... U can't say what they wished to make u think is the truth...
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen creating? making up? "The Origin of Manchus was written by the emperor and the nobles of Manchus Empire based on various official history books. It's not a joke. Do not make them morons.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay ok last time I said it out of memory, I found a fault in it, so I will resay it again to make it right. "满洲源流考”is done in "乾隆" period, which I always thought to be the 5th emperor becuz I always leave out Nurhachi. However, I still have strong doubts that the emperor wrote this... R u trying to mess around with the logic? Just becuz it is done during "乾隆" period，it doesn't mean that it is wrote by 乾隆 or said by 乾隆. And theonly official history should be "清史".
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen what the hell are you talking about? read the book first before mentioning it.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay |||v__v...... such a bragger.......
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay I am not making them morons. The book tried to cover facts like Ming dynasty's rule and 建州三衛 etc and etc. It is considered a good book for studying relationships and Northeastern ethnics, but it makes up stories like Hampu Kim or Kim dynasty, which is completely bizarre... How do u know what sources they drew upon?
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay culture, living style, written language, level of civilization, etc.... Kor is more similar China than to Jurchens... if that is political, I wonder why would Jurchen not be political?
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay it is Manchus who said their ancestor is Kor, but it is actually build upon nothing. Don't just take what u need, and disregard all the stuff that r disproving it.
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen The important point is that Manchus themselves thought their empire was successor state to Jurchens Kim dynasty and the ancestor of Kim dynasty was from Korea. That's why at first Manchus also named their empire "Kim" though it was changed to Daicing (Cheong or Qing) later.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay and also it is just reasonable that "大金" is a continuation of "金", I don't know how do u relate it to this topic. And this "满洲源流考" r u sure it is done by the sixth emperor? I've always had doubt on this.... I believe this book is written during the time of " 乾隆", it is written by two Manchu beaurocrats, but I have strong doubt that “乾隆“actually said this..... the reason for writing this book is to show how long glorious Manchus' history is. It also covers some facts at same time
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay Then "滿洲源流考", a book that is trying to glorify manchus' past, further expanded this and said Hambo is Kor, his last name is "Kim" and Jin dynasty is derived from the surname "Kim". This story is created out of no where, and its intentions r very apparent. In fact, this is only source u can draw upon, becuz all other resources can be seen as supporting him as a Jurchen living in Korea.
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen Oh really? Therefore, Great Manchus emperor stated that the ancestor of Jurchens Kim dynasty was Korean because of glorify Manchus' past? Manchus even created it because of glorify Manchus' past? I really didn't know it. :-)
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
hey wats goin on in this threa....oh shit
jkih0021 1 year ago
1115 AD Jurchens founded Kim dynasty.
1126 AD Jurchens conquered Song China and started to rule northern China.
1127 AD The remnants of Song China founded another dynasty called South Song in southern China.
1279 AD Mongols conquered South Song and they started to rule the whole Chinese territory. (Mongols conquered Jurchens Kim dynasty in 1234 AD and occupied northern China.)
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay Jurchen didn't know how to rule at first, therefore, they installed a dynasty called "大齐", later after discovering "Chi" couldn't meet their expectations it is when they started to rule, and of course still using former Chin officials and system. And u r just mixing with logic here cuz Song is not refounded. Southern Song is just a continuation of Northern Song. The ppl r still there. It is just a change of emperor, territory, and capital, but Song was never annhilated.
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
Mongols has nothing to do with the topic we talked about
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
Mongolian historians wrote the history book called "The History of Jurchens Kim dynasty" and it's also one of the official history books in People's Republic of China. The book clearly states that the ancestor of Jurchens Kim dynasty is Hambo Kim, Korean.
The 6th emperor and the high-ranking officials of Manchus Empire wrote the history book for their ancestors' that is Jurchens/Manchus origin. Based on the book, there's no doubt that Jurchens Kim dynasty came from Korean Silla dynasty.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay The official history "The history of Jurchens Kim dynasty" is probably "金史" as I know it becuz it is the only official one. The book doesn't state ancestor of Jin dynasty as Hambo "Kim",it only states that he "从高丽来" meaning he migrated out of Koryo, but it doesn't tell what group of ppl he belongs,nor does it tell his last name is "Kim". According to Jin dynasty's own record "祖宗实录", Hambo was a Jurchen that lived in Koryo, well again it is based on legends, but Jurchen's own legend
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay In fact, the only record that states Hambo is a Kor is "满洲源流考", well it is considered a good book to study relationships. However, the book's main purpose is to glorify the Manchus' past history, and trying to cover some facts. According to facts that is known today, the Hambo "Kim" is merely a creation out of no where. This story is not based on any of the previous records, therefore, I would say it is anything but true. If it is based on something it is predicted to be rumors
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay oh I forgot to say there is also another book done by a Kor historian which suggests that Hambo is a Kor monk...
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
And it is very doubtful that Jurchens Jin dynasty came from Korean Silla dynasty...
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen Well, Manchus who conquered China and ruled there for hundreds of years clearly state that the ancestor of Jurchens Kim dynasty came from "Korea", that is Korean Silla dynasty.
"Jurchens Kim dynasty came from Korean Silla dynasty and there's no doubt that the name Jurchens Kim dynasty was also derived from the royal surname of Korean Silla dynasty (Kim)", the 6th emperor and the high-ranking officials of Manchus Empire said together.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenba During Shilla's time Jurchens submitted to Korea, later they submitted to Liao(遼) dynasty. therefore, Hambo who probably lived in 冷山, is said to be migrated out of "Korea", but the very same record states that his last name is 完顔, it is actually not a name of Shilla or Koryo but a name of Jurchen. Therefore, he could be considered Shilla or Koryo citizen(if there is citizenship at that time) for sure, but it doesn't mean that his last name is "Kim", which is merely a creation
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay according to official record “辽史”(this part recorded by Jurchen Jin dynasty)， "Jin"（金）dynasty's name is taken because Liao(遼) dynasty's name means 镔铁 meaning wrought iron, and 金 means gold which doesn't corrupt like wrought iron. "Jin" is derived from Kor last name "Kim" is recorded in the same book “满洲源流考“，it is nothing but a creation out of no where. This book is only trying to glorify Manchus' past. a lot of its content is merely Koreation.....
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
The 6th emperor of Manchus Empire himself clearly stated that the name of the Jurchens Empire (Kim dynasty) was derived from the royal family (Kim) of Korean Silla dynasty.
And I don't understand what you're saying. You should not distort history. Jurchens Kim dynasty ruled northern China since they conquered Song China.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay what I am saying is the source u've given me is not really considered correct. The "name of the Jurchens Empire (Kim dynasty) was derived from the royal family (Kim) of Korean Silla dynasty" is not based on any of the previous records, it is probably made up or derived from rumors and legends. Also, there were rumors in Korea back then that states the founder of Jurchen empire was a monk in Korea. Therefore, that record is probably derived from rumors like that.
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay Jin dynasty did rule northern China, but u said by 1126AD they already started ruling northern China, that is not true, however, becuz they r mostly illiterate they were unable to rule China, so they founded a dynasty called "Chi", whose emperor is a former Song dynasty official.
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
Jurchens Kim dynasty conquered Chinese Song dynasty, the invading armies occupied the capital of Song China and captured the king. The conquerors finally conquered China in 1126 AD and they started to rule there, though the remnants founded another dynasty (South Song) in southern China next year.
By the way, South Song was also conquered by Mongols in 1279 AD.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay U kept saying Jurchen "Kim" dynasty conquered "Chin" Song dynasty... R u trying to imply that "Kor" conquered "Chin" again? The invading armies did defeat Northern Song and so Song's capital shifted to the South, and Song's territory shrinked, but Song still exists. U used the word "conquered", it is technically wrong. In 1126AD Jin didn't start to rule China, in fact, they didn't know how to rule China so they founded a dynasty called "Chi".
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay The mongols has nothing to do with the previous topic, if u want to talk about Mongols we can open up a new argument here...
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
Jurchens/Manchurs conquered China twice. One is Song China and the other is Ming China. Jurchens conquered China (Song) and Manchus conquered China (Ming) again.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay When did the Jurchens conquer the Song?
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen Jurchens Kim dynasty conquered Chinese Song dynasty in 1126 AD.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay First of all, last time we talked about the Jurchen Kim. I pointed out ur source, but I didn't finish. The source has some problems, becuz it is not based on any previous sources and is created out of nowhere. Therefore, majority just disregard it as official history. So the Jurchen Kim thing(it should be Jin not Kim) is not recognized widely.
Secondly, Jin dynasty didn't conquer Song. I don't know wether u r talking about North Song or Song as a whole. Song was not conquered
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
they should re-do this myth, but with more targets... or aim it at a wall... of pigs...
xxxXxxx255 1 year ago
Not Enuff Dakka
RichardOnADragon 1 year ago
i wonder if any of you retards know that china discovered gunpowder
NoChocolateOnlyAzns 1 year ago
@NoChocolateOnlyAzns
About as retarded as no one but hardcore history buffs knowing jackshit about the Imjin War, and how they used this to absolute effect in their ships.
sompret 1 year ago
If only Korea had this in Age Of Empires 2 instead of the War Wagon...
Meridia 1 year ago
Well. Chinese say that Mongols empire should belong to their history and Kublai Khan was a Chinese emperor. It makes Mongolians extremely angry and I can understand their feeling because Chinese're trying to distort not only Mongolian history but Korean, Manchus, Uighurs, Tibetans, and other ethincs' history. How can Hwacha be a Chinese invention? If Chinese had shut the fuck up and had just enjoyed this video nothing like this sutpid ass argument would have started here.
MrFabricate09 1 year ago
@MrFabricate09 the chinese invented those arrows. koreans put them in carts. the original chinese arrows were extremely inaccurate but the korean version compensated with numbers
THISNAMEOWNS 1 year ago
@MrFabricate09 ........what a lame accuse... Chin don't claim kublai khan was a Chin, they say they r mongolian emperor who ruled China. Yuan is part of CHin official history, what the hell is wrong is that?? and China only claimed about the Yuan not the whole mongol empire. Is Jap occupation of Korea not part of Korean history? Stop trying to mess around with foreigners u can fool foreigners, but u can't fool Jap and Chin. Korz like to bring other countries into their altaic group....
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@MrFabricate09 Y would China want to distort Kor, Mongol, Manchu, uighur, and tibetan. They were not really worth distorting stop bringing new countries into the argument u Korz. Stop trying to fool mongols. How can Hwacha be a Kor invention??? Korz didn't even know about gunpowder back then, but when they had gun powder they suddenly have this weapon? It doesn't happen that fast. Ok, another proof China had higher stage rockets, how come Korz don't have these? For China to copy Kor so lame
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@MrFabricate09 It is Korz who always like to promote their culture and racist comments everywhere on the internet. Chin ppl were just angry and fought back... U can actually see Kor culture promoters in every forum promoting their distorted view of history, which were not really being peer-reviewed and agreed by scholars around the globe ok? Not all the historians around the globe agree with u guys... in fact, most of the scholars don't... Korz always try to prove they r superior so aggressiv
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen Well, China doesn't hate Korea? Korean's are very defending of their culture and history because there is very little of it left. The Japanese Occupation destroyed most of the Korean history told by Koreans. The only history left is spoken words, and written history from OTHER nations. Thus the Korean's try to defend any bit of history left in its story.
WonderfulMrShyne 1 year ago
@WonderfulMrShyne All I can say is Korean's defend for its culture and history is very aggressive. And Chin don't hate Kor, they dislike them. Now how much culture and history the Jap destoried is very questionable, and u can't put an "if" in front of history. U can't say if the Jap didn't burn our history books, this and that would happen. History simply can't be assumed this way.
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@WonderfulMrShyne now Koreans preserved their culture better than the Chin, what do you mean that there is very little of their culture left. Don't u know that there r very little of all cultures left? The chin culture was almost destoried completely during cultural revolution. Even today nobody cares about Chin culture at all in China. There aren't groups like the VANK in culture, who is actually trying to restore the honor of Chin ancestors. Cultural revolution destoried Chin beliefs
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen well i don't know what distortion, but if you mean some jerks who saying like "Goguryeo ruled the Whole World" with odd book called 桓檀古記, you need to know that we Koreans just hate them.
really, they're bunch of jerks.
and if you didn't mean them, then i don't know what to tell you bcuz i don't know what is distortion that you sayin, Chins and their Government distored our culture and history too. if you tell me about em maybe i can explain some.
Xana6637 1 year ago
@Xana6637 Well, there were a lot of distortions that make Chinese look really bad, which were not usually true, becuz Koreans always have this racial views, and they views r always being objective rather than subjective.... This Korean's hatre towards Chin is so severe that even Japan and Taiwan had things to say about it. I mean even though China and Japan are rivals, they both don't agree on a lot of things the Koreans said.
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@Xana6637 now for example, the Chin said Gorguryeo is a MINORITY ETHNIC HISTORY OF THE NORTH EASTERN CHINA, the Koreans, on the other hand, r saying Chin said Gorguryeo is Chin history. I don't care what u say, and i don't have biase towards Koreans, but Koreans in recent years r getting more and more arrogant. That is why Chin r getting mad at Korz, Korz wanted to win Chin so much. The Chin didn't even care, until very recently when Korz openly laugh at Chin for losing Korz in soccer and stuf
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen well, China and Korea, both have bias about each other and that is racism. but why didn't you listened about both side before you make a decided to who's wrong..
i can surely say it is bcuz of the China government and Korean-Chinese and lots of mischief making. if you're Asian well you know it smells. anyway in this point you have to admit that you saw only a one's side. it just like a regionalism. why you claim like theres only one victim and perpetrator in this dirty relation?
Xana6637 1 year ago
@Xana6637 I've been studying this trend of Korean and China for years, what do u mean I am not listening to both sides. I've seen Korean TV shows and those kinda stuff... and in them i c a lot of Communist-like propagandas. U got to admit propaganda is very severe in both North and South Korea. The problem is that propaganda r usually done by the Chin gov, but in Korea it is also done by the civilians.Civilians like to spread propaganda everywhere now that is really scary, becuz too patriotic
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@Xana6637 Now, the relationship b/w China and Korea is, China admires Korea's development, BECUZ CHINA DIDN"T DEVELOP THAT WAY. As u know it's a communist thing. China admires Korea, but then China started to learn the arrogant side of Korea recently for both North and South Korean. North and South Korea r pretty arrogant. Especially the North, they will do the craziest stuff that u will ever imagine, keep pushing the limit and boundaries of China.
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@Xana6637 The South is no different. Doesn't matter u agree or not, they r very arrogant. The main problem b/w China and Korea is Korea's arrogance. To simplify this, China was arrogant in ancient time, present day Korea become arrogant after they got rich, and China dislike and sneer at Korea. That is really what is undergoing in both societies. they simply dislike each other, but it is more like hatefor Kor. In terms of politics it's much more complicated, so we won't talk about that.
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen and thats not true that Goguryeo is belongs to China...
i think you got no big bias toward us. thanks for that. but sorry for say, seems you have a favoritism toward Chinese.
if you didn't see any historical, reasonable, verified evidence about this,
then don't treat the history like a Myth. the history belongs the country. i wonder it is real example for "Koreans" distorted "Chinese History". Think about this, seriously.....
Xana6637 1 year ago
@Xana6637 In terms of Goguryeo Koreans r being very arrogant again. In Korea's record, Korea didn't conquer other nations, this seemed to be very disturbin for some young Korz, becuz Koreans liked to believe they were a strong nation, that they were able to not only conquer China, but also "fend off" the mongols. I said that becuz a lot of Kor online say how they conquered China and stuff, which were shallow in terms of historical accuracy. They not only claim the Goguryeo but also manchu etc
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@Xana6637 Korean historical TV drama and historical TV documentaries always like to somehow "beat" the Chin.Especially in the era of Gorguryeo, Korz seem to draw a lot of confidence from that, they always portrait Chin r being stupid and always beaten by them. Almost all of them r based on no historical fact, showin the Korean arrogance clearly.That is why even though Korean love stories r so good at earnin the tears of asian girls, but their historical drama fails to impress asian world.
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@Xana6637 U no what is communist propaganda? That is communist progaganda. While the majority of the Chin ppl r rethinkin about chanting Mao and communist party, the Koreans begin to chant and glorify their own history. Thx to Koreans, Chin finally started to self-examine. For example, even though Chin gov still promote the hate of Japan, but ppl now focuses on "why" the Jap were able to invade China, rather than "what" happened during the process. Korz on the other hand r just too patriotic
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@Xana6637 I don't treat history like a myth, and I agree the history belongs to the country. So would Korz stop their racism like: "Korz taught Chin how to cultivate crops", "Korz (the northerners) beat up China", "Korz were DongYi who invented Chin characters and taught Chin how to write", and some Korz were like: "Korz invented go chess, becuz if Chin invented it, then y is Chin bad in it?"..... These r seriously flawed arguments done by Kor ppl.
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen And who exactly are these "Kor ppl"?
Unfortunately chinese are being manipulated by the PRC media. See a summary of the myths being spread in chinahush .. /2010/06/25/national-sentiment-controlled-by-rumors/
The way it goes is that chinese people are "told" by the media that koreans did something and engage in racist acts because they think they're being attacked, but the truth is that these stories are false.
Koreans never claimed any of what you say.
dsk 1 year ago
@dsk yes maybe I know that, but it doesn't change the fact that many young Kor nationalist r saying those kinda of things, throughout the entire web nationalist Kor ppl r spreading those, can u say they r not?... it's not that I am supporting verbal harassment from the Chin or siding with them, and it is not that i am too biased to see the truth or watever. It is kinda like an obligation to fight back. There shouldn't be just one voice rite?
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen This is the internet, unfortunately there's people masquarading as other nationalities in order to foster bad feelings. This includes pretending to be korean and attacking chinese to stir things up.
I would stress again that the PRC had an approval rate of 60+% before all this blew up .. why would then start attacking chinese out of the blue as you think?
Consider that the PRC press has a strong hand in propagating these myths, if anything you should be angry at them.
dsk 1 year ago
@dsk It is pretty highly unlikely Chin pretended to be kor and stir trouble on the internet... anyways the history channel of Korea actually also make claims that r bizzare.. for example, Jin dynasty is formed by Korean?
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen According to the official histories of the Jin and Qing the ancestor Hanpu was a lesser member of the Silla royal family who's descendants unified the Jurchen. For further information see "Hanpu" in wikipedia
dsk 1 year ago
@dsk ya that is exactly what i talked about
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen That's not the koreans "claiming" anything .. that's the Jin and Qing official histories speaking.
If it's not to your liking then it's unfortunate, but attacking koreans won't change that.
dsk 1 year ago
@dsk no no no... offcial history isn't very clear, it is only by judgement and assertion that they believe that is the case.
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@dsk plus wikipedia isn't really a good source... I find it somewat biased most of the time
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen Wikipedia isn't the ultimate source, it's just the most convenient one for me to give to you on the topic because it covers it extensively. However if you take a look at the references list you can find more authoritative sources.
I initially found it difficult to believe the notion since it doesn't seem to be well-known, but having taken the time to research the topic (out of curiosity) it seems to be how the Jin and Qing regarded themselves
dsk 1 year ago
@dsk ya that's y i think wiki is somewat biased... becuz it emphaizes on one point of view, or else it contradict itself. It doesn't really show all the arguments about it
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@dsk so r u talking about Jin calls Korea as mother country??and Qing emperor's last name 爱新觉罗？
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen the man from Korean Kim family who migrated to Jurchen's area and the woman from Jurchens Wanan tribe intermarried. Both families founded Kim dynasty there in 1115 AD and the ancestor of Jurchens Kim dynasty is of course the man, his name is Hambo Kim.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay is your source 满洲源流考？
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay don't play word game with me tell me ur source, don't tell me it is from Kor documentaries....
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen Why don't you try to find the answer yourself if you're really interested in it? :-p
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen Anyway almost all history books (actually all official history books as far as I know) which recorded about the origin of Jurchens Kim dynasty consistently state that the ancestor of Jurchens Kim dynasty is Hambo Kim who migrated from Korea. "The Origin of Manchu" is just one of the books. Manchus emperor who wrote the book even states that there's no doubt that the name Jurchens Kim dynasty was derived from the royal surname (Kim) of Korean Silla dynasty in his book.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay Can u state all the official records u talked about? Maybe just several? "The Origin of Manchu" = "满洲源流考", so I think I see what ur source is...becuz that is the only source that says Hambo is from Kim family as far as I know. From ur incapability of understanding "满洲源流考", I think u can't even read Chin. Anyways, I am still curious how some Kor nationalists perceive this subject, and wat sources they draw the info from.
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen I said that it's almost all history books which recorded about the origin of Jurchens empire. Wow~ It seems that you know Chinese characters veeeery well~ much better than me. If so, how about finding the books and read it yourself? I hope that you don't make me waste my time again. Anyway here's my answer and it's the last:
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
An official history book called "The History of Jurchens Kim dynasty" written in Mongols Yuan dynasty states that The ancestor of Jurchens Kim dynasty is Hambo. He first migrated from Korea.
金之始祖, 諱哈富, 初從高麗來.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
In Manchus empire the 6th emperor himself wrote a history book called "The Origin of Manchu" and published it 1777 AD. In the book, based on several history books such as "通考", "大金國志", and "金史", he states that there's no doubt that Jurchens Kim dynasty came from the royal family of Korean Silla dynasty and he thought that the name of the empire was also derived from Korean Silla dynasty.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
按"通考"及"大金國志", 皆云本自新羅來, 姓完顔氏. 考新羅與高麗, 舊地相錯, "遼, 金史"中, 往往二國互稱, 不爲分別, 以史傳按之, 新羅王金姓, 相傳數十世, 則金之自新羅來無疑. 建國之名, 亦應取此. "金史 地理志", 乃云以國有金水源爲名, 史家附會之詞, 未足憑耳.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay
All human beings are related to Africa too, so what?
Manchu have nothing related to Korea anymore after leaving Korea.
luibu1989 1 year ago
@luibu1989 I think no one denies that all human beings are related to African genetically. I also think no one can deny Jurchens/Manchus origin is closely related to Korean. Manchus themselves stated that their origin is closely related to Korean in their history book which was written by the 6th emperor and the high-ranking officials of Manchus empire.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay
Whats your point?. To feel better about yourself knowing somehow a "Korean" group conquered China?. Ming dynasty should have left you to the Japs.
freaktong 1 year ago
@freaktong Absolutely No. Although Jurchen/Manchus origin is closely related to Korean they were not Korean. Manchus were Manchus, Chinese are Chinese, and Korean are Korean. Jurchen/Manchus conquered China twice but it's not Korean history but Jurchen/Manchus history.
Although Korean asked for help and Ming had no choice but to help Korea, Ming army was hardly helpful to Korea during Imjin War. It's said that one of the reasons why the war lasted for 7 years is because of Ming army.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
Comment removed
freaktong 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay Just to correct Jurchen never conquered China twice. Even the Qing dynasty is with the major help from China's own traitors and internal conflict..... and the majority of the land conquered by Qing dynasty is also actually conquered by Han troops....
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay
Yeah, Do you mean
Korean related Manchu conquered Ming dynasty, Tibet, Taiwan and Mongol.
So you feel better now?Korea is stong and influental in the world?
do China need to give back all tha land to Manchu related Korean?
don't be silly.
luibu1989 1 year ago
@luibu1989 No No, do not distort my comments. The ones who conquered Ming is Manchus not Korean. No one says that Korean conquered China.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@KoriSenbay
You should watch "Manchu history - 1( A rebuttal against Korean Nationalist's fabrication ) " and "Crazy Korean Nationalists " here on youtube.
freaktong 1 year ago
@freaktong I don't like those shits.
KoriSenbay 1 year ago
@freaktong
LOL Manchu history = Korean history
Hananim91 1 year ago
@Hananim91
Ofcourse thats what Korean nationalist would think.
freaktong 1 year ago
@freaktong
Only chinese nationalists go against the idea but evidences say otherwise.
Hananim91 1 year ago
@Hananim91
A perfect example of illogical nationalist. Manchus are Manchus, Koreans are Koreans, they are different ethnic groups.
freaktong 1 year ago
@freaktong
Manchus originated from sushen which came from Old chosun. Manchus is in same lineage and can trace back to Ye-maek tribes 5,000 years ago, you idiot!
Hananim91 1 year ago
@Hananim91 ........ from old Chosun.......
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen
Yes, archeleogically, there are just part of us. Nothing more. It's true Jurchen conquered China, let Southern Song begging for mercy. Qing decimated because of revolts and revolutions around China.
Hananim91 1 year ago
@Hananim91 Song's status is merely political.... It's very complicated and I will just boil it down to Song emperor don't want to unify with Northern China. The military system is very very corrupted that's why Song soldiers don't even have any combat ability in the beginning. However, overall the Song won 70% of all battles against Jurchen Jin. Jin was never able to conquer Song at all. In fact, Song often had the chance to retake Northern China often being recalled by believers of peace
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen
LOL Song was already unified before the Khitans arrived. Song was probably one of golden ages of China, so miltiarilly it was in good standard. Song did not won any battles, their capital Kaifeng was destroyed by Jin, and led to tributary with the Jin afterwards. The Mongols hated Jurchens, so they agreed to ally with Southern Song, Both attacked Jin. After that, Mongols attacked Song which broken its alliance with Southern Song. ^___^
Hananim91 1 year ago
@Hananim91 militarily it might be a good standard for sure. However, it doesn't mean the soldiers were well-trained for combat. As I said in the beginning and in the end the Song military was corrupted, no soldiers were actually ready to battle. Plus, Song people were very very rich.. so as I said they don't need to fight while it is very economical for nomads to fight Song. In fact, Southern Song almost win all the time against the Jurchens so watever...
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen
You heard of Yue Fei, he's probably considered the hero of Han Chinese.
Hananim91 1 year ago
@Hananim91 He is not considered hero of Han Chinese. He is considered hero who fought Jin. China don't promote ethnic tension the way the Kor do. Kor is single ethnic so talking to them require patience. They just don't understand what countries with multi-races or multi-ethnic are like.
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen
Yea, and Han Chavunism is not alive in China today?? Heck, Chinese gov't brainwash other ethnic people that they are Chinese. But in political stage, the Hans dominate almost everything. ^___^
Hananim91 1 year ago
@Hananim91 as if the Kor Chavunism is anything better than the Chin.... Han Chavunism exist somewhat I won't deny it.... but it's not the majority of the ppl most of the ppl don't even care. I happen to have a good friend who is half Manchu and half Han, yet his family chose to be Manchu. It is not a single case, in fact most of the families who have 1/2, 1/4, or even 1/8 I know changed to minority ethnic, becuz it is actually advantageous to be minority ethnic, Han don't get help or any sh**
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen
There's no such thing as Korean Chavanism like in China. Korea has been Korean homeland since ancient times while China (Henan province aka. Chinese heartland) had been taken from different ethnic people many times. ^__^ Han chinese thinks they are superior because of Influences and some Good history, but in the end, I hope China realizes its nothing but colony of Han people.
Hananim91 1 year ago
@Hananim91 ^__^||| what you said is very Chavunic. Han Chin think they r superior? Where you draw that statement? it is such a strong statement here... Korea has been Korean homeland since ancient times... then how is China not Chin homeland? As I said don't try to promote ethnic tension. It can fool foreigners who don't know of anythin, but trying to fool ppl who actually know things from both sides? I don't think it works that way.
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen
Tell me how many foreign dynasties conquered China?? and Include big ones like Yuan and Qing. ^___^
Hananim91 1 year ago
@Hananim91 I won't say conquered becuz most of states I guessed that r in your mind(if u know any), flowed in when China had internal conflict, and then they were forced to learn Chin language; changed from nomads to peasants; setting up laws that state that you have to intermarry with Chin; and eventually integrated into Chin society. I don't see that's very conquering to me.
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen
Fourth, if you see YT videos about Korea, you would see Jap nationalists making insults to Koreans (and to Chinese if you haven't notice). It's obvious why Koreans (and Chinese) hate Japanese from past and to right now because of their gov't and such. So please, don't blame on Koreans for everything because of a fucken rumor spread by YOUR nationalists claims and also Japanese. ^__^
Hananim91 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen
Internal conflict of what?? Three Kingdoms?? I'm not talking about three kingdoms. It's a proven fact that China was conquered by different ethnic people, if you like it or not. That's HISTORY, buddy, live with it. The only shit that China is doing, is making BS distortions about it.
Hananim91 1 year ago
@Hananim91 Trust me a lot of these tensions are very political, it is very hard to meet a mutual agreement. Becuz ppl r brought up this way, and they will always fail to question the very knowledge that are engraved into their mind. Both Kor and Chin r raised up this way, the educators always give you a perspective of other nations keeps harrasing us, and we've been humiliated. These are not always true, it is just a perspective that the nation want you to believe in.
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@Hananim91 Obviously it is internal conflict,Xianbei,Khitans so on later all became part of china,during Tang dynasty,numerous highly sinisized xianbei were promoted to generals/officers such as zhangsun wuji,yuchijingde(who later became the door god of chinese) so on
GodsCommand 1 year ago
@GodsCommand
So according to your logic, Korean generals like Li Zhengji, Gao Xianzhi, etc. are Chinese, so it is obvious that Koreans will later become part of China? Just like Xianbei and Khitans??? hahahhahha XD
Hananim91 1 year ago
@Hananim91 obviously not,koreans have their own country ,while minorities don't have
GodsCommand 1 year ago
@Hananim91 and plz don't try to promote ethnic tension in China, I know that's what many Korz love to see. Although I hate the Chin gov, but some of their policies actually r beneficial for the minority ethnic. And actually in political stage, u have equal chances to be in the gov. Han only dominate in number, but they usually don't abuse the other minorities. Big ethnics in China usually rule themselves as well so you have seperate governments for them as well...
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen
Go to Tibet, they abuse these tibetans or Ughur people too.
Hananim91 1 year ago
@Hananim91 as I said real things are actually a bit different, and politics is dark. And things are actually different from what you wish. The ethnic tension is not as strong as what most ppl think. And I won't comment on Tibetans and Uighurs as things would drag extremely long and we won't agree with each other forever, becuz I know the story from both sides, not just the somewat inaccurate info from the west. And that doesn't have anything related to the topics we were focusing on before
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen
I know today's China would be considered a threat to Korea and to other nations as well. China would be friends with Korea if the communists haven't won, they might be friends and if China never volunteered to help NK in our civil war.
Hananim91 1 year ago
@Hananim91 Ya I know. Actually one month ago I talked to a Kor, and he/she said Korz hate Chin becuz Chin volunteered in the NK war, and that's one reason why I hate the Chin gov. Becuz communist actually took over China by cheating on Chin themselves. They kept lying in order to make their system alive. I've personally experienced this. My parents were victims of communist stupid decisions.However, even if NK and SK unites, they will hate China even more.
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen
If China backs away from being involve with NK, then SK might not be 80% anti-Chinese right now. Chinese is considered the scum of the planet in Korea, not kidding, go to Korea and they might be 2 out of 3 anti-Chinese in Korea. Plus, with that confucious is Korean rumor circulating in Chinese media, the Koreans had it enough with Chinese. We can't trust Chinese anymore, that's the truth. If China is supportive to Korea reunification, maybe Koreans change mind. Alight?
Hananim91 1 year ago
@Hananim91 Oh my god... you know what Chin are also victims of communist. CCP is still lying to the Chin ppl, and info from outside is scarce and often being filtered. Sino-Jap war costed 18million lives in 8 yrs, but in 3 yrs 43million Chin ppl starved to death under the communist gov rule. With the stupid Communist regime China stopped developing for like 30 yrs, and even went way poorer than what they started with. After that u even have to reconstruct the infrastructure.
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@Hananim91 Even now the gov is still corrupted. Their policies were never acknowledged outside China. They are always allied with those evil countries like NK etc. They supported the communist movement in many countries, so those countries are all gonna hate China. If NK and SK unites, it is gonna drag Kor economy so down, and after realizing what is really going on the NK would also hate China.So it is like in a really weird situation becuz it is communist and it is supportin the NK mad dog
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen
You are funny, firstly I don't care if China was raped by Japan, when in Korea, pratically we Koreans had to fight against Japs, alight?? Don't make any accusations and victum playing, when your gov't is harassing other people just like tibetans who wanted independence, etc.. You chinks are just hypocrities. This is what I have told other people since 1900s. Chinese are just hypocrities, nothing much.
Hananim91 1 year ago
@Hananim91 well see again chavunism... watever..... as I said talkin to Kor nationalists really requires patience, even if I've been talkin patiently like that, they just don't buy it. There is never mutual agreement, but just new accusations and new conflicts, so instead of wasting time on hating Chin, u guys should pay more attention ur NK mad dog brothers. They are actually a threat to Chin as well.
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@canadianfirzen
I know one thing, NK won't even nuke us because they ain't stupid like Chinese. ^__^
Hananim91 1 year ago
@Hananim91 in fact the whole society is corrupted thus makin China's infrastructure fragile. If the gov of a country don't adjust immediately from going into the wrong way, it is gonna make the whole country collapse and goin into grave with them...
canadianfirzen 1 year ago
@Hananim91 bitch korean idiot,Song was superior in economy,technology and culture but it was weak militarily! Cuz the founding emperor saw the bad effects of using too many military people & generals/troops with non han chinese origins during Tang dynasty
GodsCommand 1 year ago