From "Slaying the Badger" -- Hinault intended to steal this stage, but he neglected to eat and bonked halfway through. He wasn't blown out, just temporarily out of commission. He was able to come back somewhat on the last climb.
Had he not bonked, he'd have clinched the Tour. Instead, LeMond was able to negate H's lead and at the same time show he was a legit podium threat.
If LeMond lost his Tour virginity on Stage 12, he regained it here.
The earlier comments stating how uncomfortable steel bikes were are completely false. I've been racing road bikes since I was 17 and steel bikes are actually very comfortable. They are slightly heavier but cro-moly absorbs road shocks exceptionally well. Carbon certianly is better but not by much. Steel has a lively feeling that no other material has come close to. In its own way it is an ideal material for a road frame.
El dia del maldito calambre de Lucho...y Lemond y Zimmerman inmarcesibles.....Que diferencia esos tours con un lider al ataque.....se parece a los de ahora con Contador y Andy jugando a mirarse y a ver quien pedalea menos.....
Those steel bikes are nightmare to ride if compare them to new ones alloy and carbon...weight, stiffness, comfort of position + clipless shoes with carbon soles, wheels light as hell and stiff at the same time>> No need to wonder, you should now!!!
Greg LeMond's average speed in the time trial, 54.545 km/h, was the fastest in Tour de France stage history; since then, only the 1994 prologue has been faster.[1
On a boat anchor with aero bars? What proof does he have that he was clean? Many others were doping at this time. Testing was very easy to beat back then.
Clearly he could have been using performance enhancing substances. Greg should be asked to prove that he did not dope during his three tours.
Greg Lemond's Vo2 max is higher than any other measured cyclist including Armstrong up near 92. This probably accounts for his results, not taking drugs. The way Greg has fought against doping over the years, speaks volumes. He risked a lot in the Floyd Landis doping trials by coming forward once again.
Great stuff. Note the average speed - about 30 km/h, well down on the average speeds over the the mountains these days. I don't think the dramatic improvement is down to the bikes. It makes you wonder.
yeah, exactly. The other thing is, just look how much these guys are obviously suffering. The peloton these days does not show such outward signs of being pushed to their limits of endurance.
i don't wanna be a negative guy but they def doped back in the 80s (and before that too...back to coppis days). they hadnt access to EPO but they used blood doping, various stimulants (epehdrine, amphetamine etc etc), cortisone, anabolic steroids (aid recovery .) among other things.
Don't be so quick to believe the negative. The guys in 1986 are invariably carrying a lot more muscle [hence extra weight] which is exactly what you don't need on the climbs. Just look at the best climbers today, Contador & Schleck, for proof. Also, today there is a lot more emphasis on taking on calories during the stages. The riders are regurlarly eating energy bars & downing gels to maintain energy levels throughout the day.
but they improved, trainings methodes, food dieets, etc these days riders pick there races. Dont put everything on drugs use. Its getting cleaner and cleaner, other sports can take a example from cycling.
@JF77MCR Cycling was a little back then in that they'd have much bigger range of speeds through the mountain stages. They would relax for 2/3rds of the race and then go super hard up the climbs. Now they set a faster pace between climbs and up unimportant climbs. It is just a slightly adjusted culture and set of expectations within the peleton. The averages up the category H climbs at race level are much the same as they are now, just the average for the whole stage is up now.
Andy Hampsten argues that Hinault's strategy wasn't necessarily designed to help Lemond but that it _was_ designed to help the team one way or another: he figured that if he went on these long attacks day after day, he would either end up with an unimpeachable victory or he would burn himself out but take down Zimmerman and the others with him. Hampsten observes that if he were "only" racing for himself he would have played defense after taking yellow, not attacked again the very next day.
1989, Hfer, not 1999. It is Bernard Hinault, in 1985, Shochaneroo.
I followed the Tour in 1986 (L'Alpe d'Huez, wow, what a stage), and it is clear that, indeed, Hinault had betrayed LeMond, to try to win the Tour for the sixth time : he couldn't resist to the temptation. For this reason, and because I couldn't imagine someone won more Tours than Merckx, my idol, I supported LeMond. Anyway, Hinault stays as a better runner than LeMond.
the myth is out there about Hinault betraying Lemond.. Do you know the best lesson ever learned by Lemond from this experience?
1999 tour the france-Last stage-time trial against Fignon..YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN AND NOBODY DECIDES FOR YOU .. EVEN THE ODDS CAN BE BITTEN--- Hinault knew he was the next King of the TDF and besides his hunting accident, Lemond could have won probably five TDF.
I do think Hinault betrayed Lemond (he said he was trying to beat him) but ultimately he helped Lemond win because the likes of Zimmerman, Herrera and Millar had to do all the chasing.
Wow... I wish that the argument here still mattered.
Remember when the word "controversy" meant "tactics," or at worst, "betrayal"- and not doping?
Who would have thought that the most beautiful, most difficult, most heart-wrenching sport in the world could be ruined?
Thank you Greg, for everything; you're the best. And thanks Badger. To hell with everyone and everything that came to the Tour after this era was over.
Well hating hinault because he is French supports my argument that your ignorance is the foundation for your statements, and not facts. Hinault had proven himself to be the stronger rider and was up by more than 5mins in each tour. He continuously attacked in 86 to wear out all the climbers so they couldn't attack. It was the highest tour in 20 years.
Hinault has always proven to be the incredible and no Lemond did not carry him. I've spent many years collecting and researching his and other cycling greats careers.
What a stage . . . although to this day I wonder what the hell Hinault was thinking. He'd attacked the day before and taken the lead by a few minutes over Lemond. All needed to do was ride defense until the ITT and #6 would have been in the bag.
From "Slaying the Badger" -- Hinault intended to steal this stage, but he neglected to eat and bonked halfway through. He wasn't blown out, just temporarily out of commission. He was able to come back somewhat on the last climb.
Had he not bonked, he'd have clinched the Tour. Instead, LeMond was able to negate H's lead and at the same time show he was a legit podium threat.
If LeMond lost his Tour virginity on Stage 12, he regained it here.
JohnnyJuicer 3 months ago
wasn't la vie clair a "supplement" company?
sylvan47070 8 months ago
wish we had another robert millar .he was superb in the mountains,
carlosss666999 8 months ago
this sport is just too wrapped up in drug abuse
it's beautiful but just too many cheaters
splitkostanjeuma 9 months ago
The earlier comments stating how uncomfortable steel bikes were are completely false. I've been racing road bikes since I was 17 and steel bikes are actually very comfortable. They are slightly heavier but cro-moly absorbs road shocks exceptionally well. Carbon certianly is better but not by much. Steel has a lively feeling that no other material has come close to. In its own way it is an ideal material for a road frame.
dougolasdixon 1 year ago
Anyone who thing Greg doped... is high.
He was 100% clean.
makeroftoys 1 year ago
Lemond setted a average speed of 54.545 in TT because he had a lot of wind favorable and descent road to paris.
lucasitaly1980 1 year ago
Bestia Grande Greg!!!!!
MrYiena 1 year ago
El dia del maldito calambre de Lucho...y Lemond y Zimmerman inmarcesibles.....Que diferencia esos tours con un lider al ataque.....se parece a los de ahora con Contador y Andy jugando a mirarse y a ver quien pedalea menos.....
r2e3P 1 year ago
Those steel bikes are nightmare to ride if compare them to new ones alloy and carbon...weight, stiffness, comfort of position + clipless shoes with carbon soles, wheels light as hell and stiff at the same time>> No need to wonder, you should now!!!
limpampoo 1 year ago
Hinault mishifts again in the video. I suppose the Campy Synchro shifters were not the best and the reason Campy changed them.
1stPlaceDirector 1 year ago
Toe straps!
Those were te days.
charlieisamonster 1 year ago
Millar was in great form that day - a real pity he got sick on the day to Granon.
TheIrish39 1 year ago
I still want a great big pair of Oakley factory pilots. Rare as rocking horse shit now.
Chachy71 1 year ago
Greg was clean, no question about that.
DHTCF 2 years ago 3
Greg LeMond's average speed in the time trial, 54.545 km/h, was the fastest in Tour de France stage history; since then, only the 1994 prologue has been faster.[1
On a boat anchor with aero bars? What proof does he have that he was clean? Many others were doping at this time. Testing was very easy to beat back then.
Clearly he could have been using performance enhancing substances. Greg should be asked to prove that he did not dope during his three tours.
drewp66 2 years ago
@drewp66
Greg Lemond's Vo2 max is higher than any other measured cyclist including Armstrong up near 92. This probably accounts for his results, not taking drugs. The way Greg has fought against doping over the years, speaks volumes. He risked a lot in the Floyd Landis doping trials by coming forward once again.
1stPlaceDirector 1 year ago
what's the name of the first song?
ajurieu 2 years ago
It's the instrumental version of 'When the going gets tough' by Billy Ocean - it was the B side of the single.
MrPudsey 2 years ago
Loved being young during this time.
catbox 2 years ago
THIS IS CYCLING.
lingopresley 2 years ago
Great stuff. Note the average speed - about 30 km/h, well down on the average speeds over the the mountains these days. I don't think the dramatic improvement is down to the bikes. It makes you wonder.
JF77MCR 3 years ago 10
yup. lemond commented the same thing... insinuating widespread drug use in the peloton these days.
bobbypinhead 3 years ago 2
yeah, exactly. The other thing is, just look how much these guys are obviously suffering. The peloton these days does not show such outward signs of being pushed to their limits of endurance.
elizbethwhalen 2 years ago
i don't wanna be a negative guy but they def doped back in the 80s (and before that too...back to coppis days). they hadnt access to EPO but they used blood doping, various stimulants (epehdrine, amphetamine etc etc), cortisone, anabolic steroids (aid recovery .) among other things.
lordraven1980 2 years ago
Don't be so quick to believe the negative. The guys in 1986 are invariably carrying a lot more muscle [hence extra weight] which is exactly what you don't need on the climbs. Just look at the best climbers today, Contador & Schleck, for proof. Also, today there is a lot more emphasis on taking on calories during the stages. The riders are regurlarly eating energy bars & downing gels to maintain energy levels throughout the day.
ecocars1 2 years ago
but they improved, trainings methodes, food dieets, etc these days riders pick there races. Dont put everything on drugs use. Its getting cleaner and cleaner, other sports can take a example from cycling.
limbo182 2 years ago
@JF77MCR Cycling was a little back then in that they'd have much bigger range of speeds through the mountain stages. They would relax for 2/3rds of the race and then go super hard up the climbs. Now they set a faster pace between climbs and up unimportant climbs. It is just a slightly adjusted culture and set of expectations within the peleton. The averages up the category H climbs at race level are much the same as they are now, just the average for the whole stage is up now.
juliancochran 1 year ago
the ridrs dont wear helmets for climbs
saltrello 3 years ago
wow, so long ago and still these guys are faster than me on my modern orbea
gmspeedfreak 3 years ago 2
Just a thought but what if fignon was there in 86 and on form! what a race that would have been!
WELLBRAN 3 years ago
Fignon was there... he just sucked ass.
WanderleiSilva29 3 years ago
He was out with an injury
WELLBRAN 2 years ago
Fignon missed the 85 Tour with injury. He rode in 86 but didn't start the Superbagneres stage after losing a lot of time at Pau.
Matteomjb 2 years ago
Andy Hampsten argues that Hinault's strategy wasn't necessarily designed to help Lemond but that it _was_ designed to help the team one way or another: he figured that if he went on these long attacks day after day, he would either end up with an unimpeachable victory or he would burn himself out but take down Zimmerman and the others with him. Hampsten observes that if he were "only" racing for himself he would have played defense after taking yellow, not attacked again the very next day.
sjl62 4 years ago
1989, Hfer, not 1999. It is Bernard Hinault, in 1985, Shochaneroo.
I followed the Tour in 1986 (L'Alpe d'Huez, wow, what a stage), and it is clear that, indeed, Hinault had betrayed LeMond, to try to win the Tour for the sixth time : he couldn't resist to the temptation. For this reason, and because I couldn't imagine someone won more Tours than Merckx, my idol, I supported LeMond. Anyway, Hinault stays as a better runner than LeMond.
TchoukTchoukNase 4 years ago
Hey! Who was the last Frenchie to win Le Gran Bocule?
shochaneroo 4 years ago
the myth is out there about Hinault betraying Lemond.. Do you know the best lesson ever learned by Lemond from this experience?
1999 tour the france-Last stage-time trial against Fignon..YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN AND NOBODY DECIDES FOR YOU .. EVEN THE ODDS CAN BE BITTEN--- Hinault knew he was the next King of the TDF and besides his hunting accident, Lemond could have won probably five TDF.
hfer 4 years ago
Hinault betrayed LeMond in '85. And ORGUN07
"you" need to accept the Facts.Even in '86 the Parisians were upset at LeMond for not supporting Hinault's attempt for a record six
TDF.The Badger was a fierce competitor but LeMond wasn't taking his B.S. any longer.
Kerintji 4 years ago
I do think Hinault betrayed Lemond (he said he was trying to beat him) but ultimately he helped Lemond win because the likes of Zimmerman, Herrera and Millar had to do all the chasing.
bunglebear2084 4 years ago
Wow... I wish that the argument here still mattered.
Remember when the word "controversy" meant "tactics," or at worst, "betrayal"- and not doping?
Who would have thought that the most beautiful, most difficult, most heart-wrenching sport in the world could be ruined?
Thank you Greg, for everything; you're the best. And thanks Badger. To hell with everyone and everything that came to the Tour after this era was over.
MDHS1974 4 years ago
bernard hinault was carried by greg lemond to 2 titles,unselfishly by greg but i think he could have won 2 more tours if he wanted to
simoncbr900rr 4 years ago
You couldn't be more wrong if you tried to be. Better check your facts before you come off looking more ignorant - check your email.
ORGUN07 4 years ago
i hate the frogs....rebbit....rebbit
simoncbr900rr 4 years ago
Well hating hinault because he is French supports my argument that your ignorance is the foundation for your statements, and not facts. Hinault had proven himself to be the stronger rider and was up by more than 5mins in each tour. He continuously attacked in 86 to wear out all the climbers so they couldn't attack. It was the highest tour in 20 years.
ORGUN07 4 years ago
Comment removed
ppyb 4 years ago
Hinault is not French..He is a Breton..do not go to Hinaults home village and tell then they are french, you might get a left hook!
WELLBRAN 3 years ago
Hinault has always proven to be the incredible and no Lemond did not carry him. I've spent many years collecting and researching his and other cycling greats careers.
ORGUN07 4 years ago
what name's of the 2nd song ?
shadowemce 4 years ago
The 2nd song is 'Would I lie to you' by The Eurythmics.
Matteomjb 4 years ago
the glory days of cycling!
espdemon8 4 years ago
Millar, King of the Mountains. Apparently he's a woman now!!! Strange.
kcufdam 5 years ago
Why did Hinault attack? well thats what made him great. To try to prove you are the strongest, to sew seeds of doubts into your opponents.
WELLBRAN 5 years ago
...and as ever the mercurial Robert Millar always at the head of affairs...our best ever roadman in the last 20 years.
zarabcat 5 years ago
video is great, music sucks
kdubphoto 5 years ago
Great stage. I was going to post this one myself, you saved me the trouble! Cheers.
Matteomjb 5 years ago
What a stage . . . although to this day I wonder what the hell Hinault was thinking. He'd attacked the day before and taken the lead by a few minutes over Lemond. All needed to do was ride defense until the ITT and #6 would have been in the bag.
sjl62 5 years ago
Thanks for the Vid's Bud
lesmcluffalot 5 years ago
Great stuff. Really enjoyed watching some real old-fashioned racing. But was that music on the original broadast?
TheGobyHut 5 years ago
sure was . i watched it back then
pluttrell 5 years ago