Cantique de Jean Racine by Faure

[frankflower69]

love the tempo! lovely legato singing, definitely satisfactory. what a lovely musical performance of this work! Mockiespare are you deaf? the mood of this piece is certainly not lost and what do you mean that the dynamics are lost?

[680stp]

Prefer a tempo that moves. Otherwise, tends to become dirge-like--and many postings are at a funereal tempo.

This is a beautiful performance!

[zeppelinfan6969]

Not too fast, this is the director's interpretation and as such is completely legitimate. You might like it slower or faster, but that's just your opinion. Rehearse a group, film a performance, and put it up as a video response if you think you can do better.

[mocksiespare]

I sang this song many years ago and have just rediscovered it and have been listening to the various versions here and I have to agree, the tempo is killing this song. This song tugs at your heart, the chord progressions are so emotional. That mood is killed with this tempo, there's no emotion, no *feeling*. Perhaps this is a phenomenal choir, but with exception to the last few measures, they're just singing notes here. Dynamics are lost, diction is lost... it's just. too. fast.

[dan57487]

@mocksiespare really? can you please lead me to a good version of the song then? thank you.

[Choristenimes]

@dan57487

Cantique Jean Racine par la Maîtrise de Nîmes.

[dan57487]

@Choristenimes thank you:)

[pianowiz1025]

What's the rush?! This piece should be slow, sentimental, and "gooey."

[lemonmadeira]

We do tend to get bogged down in what we know and are used to! I feel that it was beautifully performed and rather refreshing.

[sergebilongo]

Trop rapide!!!!! c'est pas comme ça que l'auteur la veut. Où est alors le "CANTABILE"?

[DiegoContu]

Too fast!!

[lurohamey]

Well, as long as the discussion is still open, I would only say that taking a tempo such as this *imho* does disservice to the text. Ex: alto entrance='de la paisible nuit'. The words themselves seem to have a blissful essence. Another ex: @ letter C, the choir intones: 'Repands sur nous le feu de ta grace eternel'=a prayer to Jesus in the familiar 'tu' as though He were hovering just above--lovely to direct this in increasing *dynamic* flow toward heaven (?) let's say. No rush. Just sayin' :-)

[robbcarson]

I must admit I am disappointed that the emphasis of the conversation in this thread has gravitated to the tempo at the detriment of any comments regarding the musicianship of the pianist or the choir. The sound of the choir, the amazing accompaniment this pianist supplies, the balance, the wonderful french language, the colour and texture.

We do not do justice to any music or performance or to the performers when we do not take in the whole. Maybe it is too fast, but, what about the rest??

[bugsandfun]

@robbcarson music is kind of an intricate thing, like life itself. If one of the parameters is off, it could ruin the whole performance; if one of the parameters is off, we might not even be alive.

I don't mean that the tempo is "wrong", some people might actually prefer it this way. But I don't like it. It's like adding too much salt to a otherwise perfect dish -- the upsides you mentioned, while identifiable, might not even matter. At least to me and to everyone else who wrote "too fast".

[southernsceptic]

Right. I think it's worth keeping in mind that the long notes in the bass of the accompaniment won't sustain on a piano without significant decay, unlike an orchestra (a la Rutter's arrangement) or the organ (Faure's original). For the bass sonorities to retain impact on a piano, it makes sense that you'd step up the tempo. The issue, in my mind, is whether or not the effect is musical, and quite frankly, I think that this performance is eminently successful in that regard.

[TrevorDaniels]

I once sang this with a group in Notre Dame. I agree it is too fast!!!!!!

[anjo1660]

It's really a pitie to sing a piece like this in this high tempo!

[acuison1]

Ugh, too fast!!!! Did they need to go somewhere after singing this piece?

[Choristenimes]

Listen to "Maîtrise de Nîmes. Cantique de Jean Racine".

[VocMusTcrMaloy]

(@donaldrose: continued) performance of this piece at the faster tempo; but, it will be as dead as a doornail! Although some conductor, or musicologist may have researched Faure and found some sort of indication that he may have preferred the faster tempo; I feel that the slower tempo is  truer to Romanticism.

[VocMusTcrMaloy]

@donaldrose: My high school choral director was one to wring out EVERY ounce of emotion from this piece at a slower tempo. All of us remember that piece and our getting "chill bumps" EVERY DAY in choir as we sang this piece 30 years ago. As a choral director today, my standard and goal is after getting accuracy of pitch and rhythm; and producing a good tone quality; is to take my choirs to that level of intense emotion. Yes, you may have professional conductors render a technically accurate

[VocMusTcrMaloy]

@donaldrose: My high school choral director was one to wring EVERY bit of emotion out of this piece at a slower tempo.

[lydidchen]

too fast... I do like the slower one more...



[Choristenimes]

Très beau mais ce n'est pas le tempo indiqué par Fauré...

look at : Maîtrise de Nïmes Jean Racine

[RedRobin84]

Very nice voices you have there, although tempo is bit too faast.

[donaldrose]

I too like this tempo. I find that the more competent the conductor the more likely the tempi are quicker. Then there are the masters who have the immense skill to wring every last bit of emotion, interpretation and feeling from slower tempi but these are rare.

Kudos to the conductor, lovely intonation and interpretation.

[VocMusTcrMaloy]

@byebons:  I'm glad you have found some use for this tempo, LOL!

[byebons]

I am trying to learn this piece, and although I agree it's done too fast on this posting, it has actually helped me as I learn it--I can read & sing along at a brisker pace so I am able to learn it more quickly.

[VocMusTcrMaloy]

@YayforComments. I know, right! It's hilarious to see these guys arguing about the "correct tempo" for this piece. I'm sure that in 1865, Faure' pulled up Sibelius software on his laptop and turned on the metronome before he marked "andante" on this piece.

[VocMusTcrMaloy]

I agree with those who prefer a SLOWER tempo on this piece. For those who would argue about a tempo marking; if you pull out metronome on a piece composed in the 19th (or early 20th) century, you are missing the point entirely! Romanticism is all about emotion, not about the nuts and bolts of composition! Use your metronome with Mozart, NOT Faure'!

[YayforComments]

@VocMusTcrMaloy Hah! someone that knows what romanticism means! Cheers!

[bassbass99able]

Taking this peace fast RUINS IT.

[volpone2000]

I actually much prefer this piece of piece of music at this speed, than slower. As i am singing it in a choir myself, it gives a much nicer feeling singing it at this tempo, and it feels a bit lumbering if you sing it slower

[giladsinger]

The sound of this choir is very nice and rich. I do find it a bit too fast, but I also agree with Robb in that tempo is subjective :) Try listen to the Cambridge Singers' version:

watch?v=wKwHiGg21KA

which is my favorite.

Have a nice day! :)

[ahelmbock]

The tempo on this is trade-off between between expression and flow -- slower means more expression (perhaps suggested by the words), faster means more flowing (perhaps suggested by the constant arpeggios in the piano (or strings in the orechestral version)). My taste runs more to the flowing, liquid style for this piece but that's just me.

[Neeka693]

I sang this back in high school....oh my..feels so weird to say dat "back in high school"...class of 201 whoo hoo..lmao...but yeah i love this song so much.

[Tuck213]

I think that the speed may be a bit slower, but I think it's better than slow, walking tempos.

[ZamaniReels]

Wow! This is the fastest I have ever heard this piece performed and yet it works.. Perhaps using the piano instead of the organ really helps in this case. The choir is exceptional - beautiful tone all around. Chapeau to the director and the performers!

[lordovil]

that was really nice.

[gkurschat]

Considering Faure marked Andante, there is quite a bit of room in the tempo. Andante tends to cover 80-108 bpm; not exactly a science... I think it truly is a matter of personal opinion. This performance is hovering around the 104 mark so still within the confines of Andante. Food for thought.

[Atleeriksen]

WAY too fast for my taste! We sing this in Majorstua Chamber Choir (Oslo, Norway) now. We did it some years back, and I´m SO glad we picked it up again, even thou I don´t speak french... :)

[lynneryn]

with all of the arguments on tempo, I am inclined to ask, what did Gabriel Faure set the original tempo marking at? that's probably the best bet to go with; as I don't know myself, I'm not going to make a comment either way about the tempo they chose for this recording.

[eztobeme]

@lynneryn "what did Gabriel Faure set the original tempo marking at?"

I have copy of the piece (Broude Brothers, New York) which shows Andante. (= 80).

[Calamaistr]

i dont see a problem with the speed, the execution was candy to the ear.

[Kmk496]

my high school choir sang this... this is kinda pothetic dynamically.

[sawdoctor0]

This tempo is quite refreshing. Very nice after the rather hesitant entry. Full marks to the pianist for bringing out the beauty of the accompaniment.

[4thQuarterLetDown]

such a beautiful song.

doing this tomorrow at Large Group Contest.

Only part of don't like is that after the Mezzo Forte and Forte they get soft at the end, and I just want to keep getting louder and more powerful.

Qui la conduit à l'oubli de tes lois is my favorite part, when the four parts stagger their entrances and end up together at the end... I get goosebumps every time.

[italiangirl789]

beautifully done and i actually prefer the faster tempo on this song so you did amazing

[rorygilmore1502]

beautiful <3

[stad97]

way too fast. what's the hurry?

[robbcarson]

way too fast as opposed to what?? I think the tempo lends itself very well to this composition. See other comments that actually disagree with you. Tempo is certainly an objective thing, wouldn't you agree?

[stad97]

lots of comments that agree with me too.

tempo often can be changed to suit the different composers' fancies, but with this piece, it definitely should be slower.

[youfreakinghippie]

@robbcarson I agree that this tempo works. However, tempo is not ALWAYS subjective; some composers have definite tempos that they want followed, while others put an arbitrary marking. Often the tempo depends on the room a piece is being sung in: a room with a lot of natural resonance and reverberation requires that songs be taken at a slower tempo to avoid overlapping melodies.

[robbcarson]

Yes, there are many factors a conductor needs to take into account. When Pro Coro sang in a cavernous church in Toronto we took longer breaks between songs, between sections because of the acoustics. With a tempo like this one it is my personal opinion it works, not all will or are expected to agree, however, I also think most of the recordings on YouTube are at the opposite end of the tempo spectrum, even to the point of being sleep inducing. This is not a comment I see here.

[glendempsey]

@robbcarson A nice performance, but I do think that it's too fast. The words lend themselves to a slower tempo, in my humble opinion.

[robbcarson]

There have been so many diverse opinions, some for the tempo some staunchly against. It really does come down to ones personal like or dislike of the tempo. As gkurschat pointed out before, the musical term "Andante" does cover 80 - 108 bpm therefore this tempo is still within the definition. And, I appreciate your "humble" opinion and as been pointed out before, we are all entitled to our opinions and I might add, even if they are questionable, just joking :) Thanks.

[jamieboyrockon]

@robbcarson Well, it is a tid bit fast, the piano intro sounds much more elegant when played a bit slower. It creates a sort of "eerie" feel to it, though I think the speed does make it much more interesting to listen to, especially when the audience doesn't have much of an attention span. But! i do see where you're coming from when it comes to the tempo being (or in this case, not being) a subjective thing.

Cheers.

[doudecad]

@stad97 Thats the tempo that is suggested....so who are you joe amateur choral conductor...

[stad97]

@doudecad

well, now another tempo is being SUGGESTED. you can ignore the suggestion if you want. so who are YOU, joe amatuer critic?

[doudecad]

@stad97 actually I have directed choirs for over 30 years.......and not once have i had anybody question the suggested tempo..not even knowledgeable choral conductors.....

It`s amazing on you tube what idiocracy you get when people who know nothing about music make asinine comments!

[stad97]

@doudecad

well, i'm giving you a new SUGGESTION which you can ignore. after 30 years, new comments shouldn't be dumped aside like that.

i'm not questioning this tempo, i'm suggesting a new tempo.

it's amazing that after 30 years of conducting, you can still be so narrow-minded. talk about idiocracy. and i do know music. i'm part of a cathedral choir and have been surrounded by wonderful musicians who've taught me lots my whole life. maybe YOU just don't know music and have been conducting crap.

[robbcarson]

@stad97 and @doudecad: OK, truce please. I put this video on here for people to enjoy and many do, others however do not and we are all entitled to our opinions, even if they are wrong LOL. Please contact each other through regular email channels etc should you wish to continue this parlee an swashbuckling action, taking jabs at each other, it really is quite amusing but not appropriate on here thanks.

Thank you both for your insights, you come from opposite sides apparently.

Peace to your both

[Pianoman42100]

@robbcarson This tempo is excellent for a piece of this calibre. I am a high school choral conductor, and I see nothing wrong with this tempo. KUDOS to the director and the accompanist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[cosmicviewer477]

@Pianoman42100 I agree. We must also realize that each performer or artist must interpret the piece in his or her own way. Perhaps the arranger decided that the tempo suited the voices and also -- equally important -- the audience the group is singing for.

[Sarvelous]

@doudecad Ehm ok, just because you've been conducting for 30 years doesn't neccesarily mean you're good, the tempo is a bit too fast, try have it slow at the start then build it up, it's nicer that way. The feeling is amazing when you sing this song, I know but it's amazing because you get to feel it when it's slow. People know you are good, so you do not have to throw your achievements in anyone's face like you just did. My conductor is well known in Ireland and Europe and she's really modest!!

[doudecad]

@Sarvelous actually I make my living conducting and I have a mortgage. So YES it means I am good enough to not have to work with you at McDonalds. You have your opinion I have mine. I also have reviews from music critics who agree with my tempo as many of the paying concert goers agree with me.

Just because your conductor is well known in Ireland and Europe does mean diddly!

What does modesty have to do with Faure????

[ruarmelomano]

grande faure

[pinkmermaid93]

too fast >_>

[jaabwv]

que bonito!!!!!!!!

[picard2bridge]

Actually, I disagree with the comment above about speed. There are so many slow versions about that border on dirges. Whilst this may be a tad faster than I'd do it, I love the energy and fluidity and the subtle shifts in tempo as it leans into the climaxes. A nice performance that brings a new perspective. Bravo.

[erskellock]

Lovely sound but would have preferred it a tad slower!

[baritono440]

excelente coro..