For all you tubelines haters out there the one positive to come out of ATO and tubelines obsession with it, is that it will finally kill off the last remaining privateer on the Underground. If the Jubilee Line is complete by December 2009 then tubelines will start to incur penalty charges at the rate of ten million pounds per week, which they cannot afford and they will soon go the way of metronet and back to LUL (now TFL) hands.
The pressure on the contractor, Thales to deliver is also so immense that critical mistakes are often being made and overlooked. The pressure on the signalling testing staff is also such that actual fist fights have taken place in the offices and despite the fact that it's gross misconduct and the brawlers are all contractors so therefore easily expendable, Thales daren't sack them because if they did they would have no workforce. If the Evening Standard knew this they would be out for blood!!!
My worry now is safety, it's true drivers or should I say button pushers will still be required. The sad thing is that if tfl, actually made an investment in training managers on how to manage a railway, it would actually work still. The reason lu doesnt work as well as it used to, is due to mismanagement. We could have all ato lines but as long as they can't manage a railway it will never work properly! The Northern line once managed 44tph, whilst using the current signalling system, funny that
sim2lew - I was thinking the same thing. If a driver is still needed and the new system allows more trains per hour then surely more drivers will be needed. Therefore ATO equals job increases not job losses?
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Lets not fogert what that ATC Caused in the Tube Lines: On 7 July 2005, bombs exploded on Underground trains between Aldgate and Liverpool Street stations, Russell Square and King's Cross St. Pancras stations and Edgware Road and Paddington stations. A double-decker bus at Tavistock Square was also destroyed. The bombs were detonated by four suicide bombers. The explosions killed 52 people and resulted in over 700 injuries.
People who say that improvements like ATO are bad because they cause job losses are living in the past. Can I assume these same people have no central heating in their houses so that the poor coal delivery men don't lose their jobs? Maybe they also have no telephones because they are responsible for the demise of the telegram industry - think of all those telegram delivery people with nothing to deliver! Let's all live in the past!
People don't loose their jobs because of ATO systems. Someone has to start the train and make sure no errors occur. With no TO then the train could malfunction and kill loads of people...
Im hoping to become a tube driver when i finish my apprentiship dont get me wrong technology can be great but i sincerly hope this never happens. also without drivers what happens when a passenger is taken ill on board the train? the passenger alarm wont be much help when your talking to a bloody robot xD
All ato does is take the job of driving away and ruin the trains, prime example, when the 1992 stock first came in and it was manual the trains were a great deal more efficient. As soon as ato was installed oops a derailment at chancery lane, and even now the ac motors are getting burnt out one by one. Isn't it funny how the w and c 1992's are in excellent condition, hmmm maybe it's because it's manually driven!
Not true, the trains speed is down to the amount of braking allocation which is currently governed to a percentage. The more braking given to the train the faster it travels. Ato doesn't change the speed of the train, it's the power given to it that does. So even now in manual, the 199x stock are capable of fast speeds, it's just down to the governing of their power.
The train control system uses several methods to tell exactly where each train is. Computers on trains connect to 2 tachometers enabling the system to locate trains to within millimetres. Sensors on the trains confirm its location via cable on the track. The cable loops every 25m so the computers can reset locations ensuring safe operation in case of wheel slip. A complementary adhesion management system builds on learning on other lines & adjusts train braking rates to match levels of adhesion.
Obviously you've never been in the Neasden control room on the weekend closures when trains are frequently 'lost' on the system. If the new system can't cope with six test trains how on earth will it cope with a full fleet???
I can respond for Tube Lines. How we keep lines clear of snow won't change: trains dispense de-icer & have special brushes to sweep the track. The new train control system is similar to that on the DLR & railways around the world so is proven to cope in all weather conditions. See my next comment for more details, but be assured that it is a reliable control system which will enhance safety on the Jubilee, Northern & Piccadilly lines as well as offer faster more frequent services to passengers.
De icing occours only on the traction current rail, unless Tube Crimes are actually going to de ice the running rails as well, not a good idea though.
How can a system like the tripcock that's been going on for way before tubelies existed, with a brilliant proven safety record need replacing?!
Now instead of an object in the track striking a train underneath, it's down to automation to stop the train, that's quite worrying! Derailment and collisions here we come!
And were the central and DLR systems installed by tubelines, NO.
The problem will be that because of PPP (Piss Poor Privitisation) the system will be installed to a budget not to actually work properly or to last, the PPP company can then rebid to "improve" the system they installed rather than do a proper long lasting job in the first place.
Cynical yes, what will happen almost certainly YES.
Just Think How Much All This is Gonna Cost With These 'cuts'!!!!
ThePborodan 1 year ago
Well we can thank Tublines for even MORE delays on weekends until October now!
86501freightliner 2 years ago
For all you tubelines haters out there the one positive to come out of ATO and tubelines obsession with it, is that it will finally kill off the last remaining privateer on the Underground. If the Jubilee Line is complete by December 2009 then tubelines will start to incur penalty charges at the rate of ten million pounds per week, which they cannot afford and they will soon go the way of metronet and back to LUL (now TFL) hands.
mrcalculin 2 years ago
The pressure on the contractor, Thales to deliver is also so immense that critical mistakes are often being made and overlooked. The pressure on the signalling testing staff is also such that actual fist fights have taken place in the offices and despite the fact that it's gross misconduct and the brawlers are all contractors so therefore easily expendable, Thales daren't sack them because if they did they would have no workforce. If the Evening Standard knew this they would be out for blood!!!
mrcalculin 2 years ago
this is an old system, nothing to compare with the latest technology.
maybe 20 years ago, or when there are only 10-15 trains on the whole line and at speeds of max 20mph.
as for thales.....lol
they dont have railway experience,
a bit like most of the managers,
looks good on paper but thats it
london underground should be london underground.
too many bods from tfl and contractors getting invloved messing everything up.
tubelines R.I.P
endof2012 2 years ago
My worry now is safety, it's true drivers or should I say button pushers will still be required. The sad thing is that if tfl, actually made an investment in training managers on how to manage a railway, it would actually work still. The reason lu doesnt work as well as it used to, is due to mismanagement. We could have all ato lines but as long as they can't manage a railway it will never work properly! The Northern line once managed 44tph, whilst using the current signalling system, funny that
Alstom1995 2 years ago
sim2lew - I was thinking the same thing. If a driver is still needed and the new system allows more trains per hour then surely more drivers will be needed. Therefore ATO equals job increases not job losses?
Lee5p33dy 2 years ago
funny we had a much cheaper and efficient lul back in 2002 ever since ppp weve been faced with a shit service, and work at weekends just for ato
r27redbird 2 years ago
1 thing
OpenBVEfan 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Lets not fogert what that ATC Caused in the Tube Lines: On 7 July 2005, bombs exploded on Underground trains between Aldgate and Liverpool Street stations, Russell Square and King's Cross St. Pancras stations and Edgware Road and Paddington stations. A double-decker bus at Tavistock Square was also destroyed. The bombs were detonated by four suicide bombers. The explosions killed 52 people and resulted in over 700 injuries.
OpenBVEfan 2 years ago
That had nothing to do with ATC/ATO!
321loverdesirohater 2 years ago 3
Let us all not also forget about the accident at disneyland on the monorail. Ths system in use was Seltrac!
Alstom1995 2 years ago
People who say that improvements like ATO are bad because they cause job losses are living in the past. Can I assume these same people have no central heating in their houses so that the poor coal delivery men don't lose their jobs? Maybe they also have no telephones because they are responsible for the demise of the telegram industry - think of all those telegram delivery people with nothing to deliver! Let's all live in the past!
Lee5p33dy 2 years ago 2
People don't loose their jobs because of ATO systems. Someone has to start the train and make sure no errors occur. With no TO then the train could malfunction and kill loads of people...
sim2lew 2 years ago 6
God ATO Trains is the baddest idea London can have, you know why? THEY COULD TAKE OVER US! They could actually ESCAPE Stations. Bad idea huh?
9081UserBVE 2 years ago 3
the jubilee line 'ran as effeicently as possible' before these clowns started fitting ATO equipment.
r27redbird 2 years ago 12
I think this ATO trains are rubbish. whats wrong with drivers?
wangtong04 3 years ago
and the result: loss of hundreds of jobs
scozzahisee 3 years ago 7
Im hoping to become a tube driver when i finish my apprentiship dont get me wrong technology can be great but i sincerly hope this never happens. also without drivers what happens when a passenger is taken ill on board the train? the passenger alarm wont be much help when your talking to a bloody robot xD
Ampz316 3 years ago 6
I bet as soon as the jubilee get's it's ato the 1996's will be a lot worse for wear, and I dare say a derailment will occur somewhere.
Alstom1995 3 years ago 10
All ato does is take the job of driving away and ruin the trains, prime example, when the 1992 stock first came in and it was manual the trains were a great deal more efficient. As soon as ato was installed oops a derailment at chancery lane, and even now the ac motors are getting burnt out one by one. Isn't it funny how the w and c 1992's are in excellent condition, hmmm maybe it's because it's manually driven!
Alstom1995 3 years ago 8
WIKEEEEEED!!!!
webbyman 3 years ago 3
i Like this way of signalling as it is safer. Guess the tube is my preferred mode of transport when i visist London next time
taykb88 3 years ago
Ermm..nope. The automatic signalling system will muck up the trains software and equipment. I think the automatic stuff is a bad idea.
shiningold321 3 years ago 4
It won't be safer, the tube is super safe as it is with the tripcock system. It will make the trains faster though!
theweekthatis 3 years ago 7
Not true, the trains speed is down to the amount of braking allocation which is currently governed to a percentage. The more braking given to the train the faster it travels. Ato doesn't change the speed of the train, it's the power given to it that does. So even now in manual, the 199x stock are capable of fast speeds, it's just down to the governing of their power.
Alstom1995 2 years ago
its a stupid conversion, what the hells wrong with drivers??? all this does is cost jobs...
TheUKrailguy 3 years ago
Why do we have to wait have until 2014 for the upgrade of the Piccadilly line?
Aggarestow 3 years ago
why make them ATO?!
infrared567 3 years ago
BTW thanks to tube lines the 1995 stock are pretty useless now, they are always being pulled out for defective motors and door problems
cameronmac2000 3 years ago
let's hope that it all works
Digimon1991 4 years ago
I doubt it will!
shiningold321 3 years ago 4
tube lines are good better than metronet and I think metronet should be transfered back to london underground limited
cameronmac2000 4 years ago
updata van londense metro
gertgertgert18 4 years ago
The train control system uses several methods to tell exactly where each train is. Computers on trains connect to 2 tachometers enabling the system to locate trains to within millimetres. Sensors on the trains confirm its location via cable on the track. The cable loops every 25m so the computers can reset locations ensuring safe operation in case of wheel slip. A complementary adhesion management system builds on learning on other lines & adjusts train braking rates to match levels of adhesion.
lauramwallace 4 years ago
Obviously you've never been in the Neasden control room on the weekend closures when trains are frequently 'lost' on the system. If the new system can't cope with six test trains how on earth will it cope with a full fleet???
mrcalculin 2 years ago
I can respond for Tube Lines. How we keep lines clear of snow won't change: trains dispense de-icer & have special brushes to sweep the track. The new train control system is similar to that on the DLR & railways around the world so is proven to cope in all weather conditions. See my next comment for more details, but be assured that it is a reliable control system which will enhance safety on the Jubilee, Northern & Piccadilly lines as well as offer faster more frequent services to passengers.
lauramwallace 4 years ago
De icing occours only on the traction current rail, unless Tube Crimes are actually going to de ice the running rails as well, not a good idea though.
Meteorological 4 years ago
How can a system like the tripcock that's been going on for way before tubelies existed, with a brilliant proven safety record need replacing?!
Now instead of an object in the track striking a train underneath, it's down to automation to stop the train, that's quite worrying! Derailment and collisions here we come!
Alstom1995 2 years ago
Why replaced the tripcock system? Its fine as it is!
321loverdesirohater 2 years ago
And were the central and DLR systems installed by tubelines, NO.
The problem will be that because of PPP (Piss Poor Privitisation) the system will be installed to a budget not to actually work properly or to last, the PPP company can then rebid to "improve" the system they installed rather than do a proper long lasting job in the first place.
Cynical yes, what will happen almost certainly YES.
Meteorological 4 years ago
How will it cope with snow, rain and the wheels locking up, still at least they won't be able to blame the drivers for any cockups
Meteorological 4 years ago
Well the Central line copes with that and it has automatic operation, so does the DLR, both of which have more overground sections then the Jubilee.
Edwiness 4 years ago
Actually that's not true, drivers usually go into manual when it's raining, the ato can cause trains to overshoot.
The new system supposedly solves this problem, but it's cheaper and a lot more unreliable, as usual!
Alstom1995 2 years ago