Violin vibrato, background info and opinions!

[vihuelamig]

Allyson: thanks for the response. I'm really referring to achieving the vibrato without shoulder or chin rest (as in Bach/Mozart). In 3rd position your hand can pivot against the body of the Violin - which is probably why they begin teaching it in 3rd. In 1st (and without the furniture) it is seemingly impossible. I know it's a specialist technique with the Baroque set up but it can obviously be done.

I'll keep experimenting.

BTW: Try 'Bow vibrato' - it's rather strange :-)

[AllysonsViolinStudio]

@vihuelamig - Bach and Mozart are 18th century - sustained vibrato only started in the 19th century. But have fun!

[vihuelamig]

'Performers there are who tremble consistently on each note as if they had the palsy'

- Mr. Mozart (the elder).

Well I can get something going in 3rd position with 3 digits (without the furniture). Unfortunately Mr. Mozart doesn't tell me how it's done in 1st but it's clearly possible, hence the palsy reference. Perhaps it was those flouncy padded jackets.

Any Baroque technique experts here?

[AllysonsViolinStudio]

@vihuelamig - In Leopold Mozart's day, vibrato was more of an ornament which was sparingly applied. I think it was in the 1800s sometime that sustained vibrato started to come into favour. If you're getting it in third position, just use it in 3rd for a little while - the brain and finger muscles will come to an understanding with a few hours under their belts and then it will get a little easier to get it going in 1st.

[Weststreetstar]

Hi,

Thank you for posting your video. Among the many good points you make is to relax and wait until you're ready for vibrato. I'm an adult learner with two years under my belt and I get so frustrated with vibrato. My teacher feels I'm rushing it and that it 'will come'. Your video has helped me believe that. I'm studying for ABRSM grade 5 which only requires some minimal awareness of vibrato so I really will try and chill out about the whole issue! Now, where's my fiddle...?

[sashy2]

help me :(

i cant do the vibratto, i've watched the vid a thousand times, and i still dont get it ! and my teacher says it's too difficult for me to do so. he's frustrating me. pleaaaase help me

[danielingui]

In Leopold´s Mozart and Geminiani says the vibrato already exists, and is named "CLOSE SHAKE", also in Joseph Herrando. The concept of in baroque don´t have vibrato or was an artificial tool is completly wrong. What is a classical bow? is tourte? Paganin did know the tourté, but he preferred the bow Baroque, and this is romantic. Good history, from where did you get?

[AllysonsViolinStudio]

@danielingui - Vibrato has likely been used since the earliest days of string instruments. We all use contrasts of texture, volume, tone etc to create interesting music, and I'm sure that the contrast of vibrato/no vibrato was always of interest. The style and habits change with the period and/or country. I am more of a working violinist than a scholar, so have learned what I know from remarkable musicians I've played with - although I have an empty spot on my shelf waiting for Geminiani.

[AllysonsViolinStudio]

@AllysonsViolinStudio - the classical-transitional bow is from the experimental period before the Tourte emerged as the new standard. Mine has a reverse curve and a high, rounded head as opposed to the thicker, sharper head of the Tourte. British bowmaker David Van Edwards has a very nice website with illustrations of Paganini playing with both a transitional-looking bow, and a more tourte-style bow. If you google transitional violin bow van edwards you should find it.

[danielingui]

@AllysonsViolinStudio - Thanks, did not know that Cramer bow is call as transitional, thanks. I had heard from many other sources that the bow Paganini used was Tartini. These two lithographs of Van edwards page are the most deceptive of the world, in the second paganini rests the chin on the left of the tailpiece, is mean of perception of the draftsman, in the bows is more especulative. Always good to know, thank you.

[danielingui]

@AllysonsViolinStudio -Hi Master, I agree with that, all type of shade and colors between vibrato y no vibrato, in diferent conceptions of culture. Send me your mail, and I will send you "the art of violin playing" Francesco Geminiani. God blessyou.

[AllysonsViolinStudio]

@danielingui - Thank you for offering, it put a smile on my face. Are you the singer in the video (on your channel) or are you the violinist? It's a lovely performance.

[Avidcita]

THANK YOU SO MUCH! this background info was great!

[HAgnesLee]

Do I have to pull out my elbow? when I try to shake my hands the it's keep touching the fegs and I don't think it's.. correct?

[AllysonsViolinStudio]

@HAgnesLee - hmmm - are you in 1st position? A wide hand vibrato in 1st might rattle the pegs - try making the shake smaller/tighter. There is no single correct way to do vibrato - experiment and find something that 1) sounds good, 2) you can still play well, 3) you can sustain it. The elbow doesn't need to move for hand vibrato, but will swing open/closed a bit with arm vibrato. Good luck!

[mrwasbesonders]

This is great. Really good to see a video on you tube where someone totally knows what they are talking about. What you say about intensity of bow and hand vibrato, how its easier to maintain a continuous arm vibrato and the explaination of the merits of both is spot on. Despite being able to use both I had never really nailed down the reasons for which to apply with the clarity you just described. Thank you, and you are obviously a REAL violinist, thanks again.

[consumedinfire04]

I am a new violin student 27yrs. old and because of your postings I was able to breeze through suzuki book 1 and 2! Thank you so much. My violin teacher is always so impressed with my playing and it's because you take so much time to explain i soooooooo appreciate it! THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!

[Mendy7952]

BTW, as you can assume I am not a suzuki teacher. I introduce vibrato as soon as possible, usually by 18 months. One of my students has just been accepted into both Julliard and Mannes after only 5years, 10months of study. That would be difficult if I had waited 4 years to introduce vibrato. And what kind of musical "mental picture" is set in the mind of one who has been told to be happy with less than the best he can do? (You say be happy with your non-vibrato playing for 3 or 4 years.)

[AllysonsViolinStudio]

@Mendy7952 - I had two new students tonight; the adult learned in 30 minutes what it will take the young child probably 4 months to learn. It's all relative to the needs and goals of the students. My students who need 3 or 4 years are usually young children when they start, and it's an appropriate rate of progression. But there are different styles of teaching, and you clearly know what you're doing - congratulations on your student!

[Mendy7952]

Dear Allison in your Violin Studio, it was the Shoulder Rest I was referring to and I am so glad my slightly outrageous style of writing got your attention. When I was studying

it was still believed by most master teachers that a shoulder rests hurts tone quality.

Now, they were wrong about the reason, but not the result for many. The notion that arm vibrato is so difficult without a shoulder rest is a generality. I find violin cannot be taught very successfully using generalities. Thank you

[AllysonsViolinStudio]

@Mendy7952 - You brought up so many points! I've played baroque violin for many years and know exactly how difficult it is to keep a violin with no chin rest or shoulder rest from slipping away on a vibrated note, so for me it is not a generality, and I think it is fair to consider the evolution of the chin rest and shoulder rest as related to that challenge. But I don't like shoulder rests myself, and it's interesting that you have experience with other approaches to good arm vibrato.