All the brass staff has top 12 experience in dci and dca, visual caption head marched phantom in 91 and 92. Drum line has usually beaten a few other drumlines each year.
Pioneer has finished in last place six of the last seven years, finishing second to last place once. Pioneer has most of the same staff who have a solid history of losing. What is the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Without reason this discussion started because of Pioneer hype that Pioneer would make 17th place or better. Pioneer is currently in 21st place, and only .5 points from last place. So why is Pioneer 2009 now any different ?
Ok pio has a great staff this year. The brass caption head is in his 3rd year at pio and most of the brass visual and color guard staff is back from last year. The percussion staff is mostly made of the staff from the indoor drumline that has won 2 wgi titles in the past 3 years. This years show the opener is irish, but its a more contemporary irish and the closer is not irish at all. Also I recently spent a week volunteering with the corps and they moved up about 5 points in about 3 shows.
Pioneer does not compete in the top division in WGI Indoor. Pioneer's 09 staff has very little top 12 DCI experience, either in marching or teaching. Pioneer has finished last or second to last place for most of the decade. What Pioneer is doing is not working. Let Roman Jr. run the corps, lose the hats, recruit staff with top 12 DCI not DCA teaching - or marching experience and work on improving recruiting. Pioneer is more like an open class corps, but there is no money if you compete there.
Now I can't go around saying I know for a fact that Pio's going to make semi finals, THIS YEAR, but I can say that this is the year pioneer becomes competitive. This is the year Pioneer isn't at the bottom of the list. This will be the year that Pioneer breaks the 75 point barrier that's been holding it back since 2002. And if Pio doesn't make semi finals this year, I STRONGLY believe that THIS will be the last year it will spend out of Semi-Finals.
Please, don't be silly. Where is your evidence that Pioneer can beat a corps on the level of the Academy?
I like Pioneer , but they are not even close to competing on a corps like the Academy's level. Pioneer will have to beat a corps like the Academy in order to make semi finals. Let's be honest, to date, Pioneer is not even close.
Ok, I have to back up PioBari for a bit (after all he was my section leader in '08) The 2009 Pioneer CANNOT be compared to the 2008 pioneer by any means. I have marched Pioneer in 2008 and attended 2009 camps, and I can tell you that they are two TOTALLY different Pioneers. First off, we've kept the most of the same staff . Also, in the beginning of 2009, everyone was very clear of the seasons goal. MAKE SEMI-FINALS, and that's probably the biggest difference, Motivation.
The numbers do not lie, Pioneer is NOT currently ranked 16th, based upon the last 5 shows Pioneer is currently ranked 21st out of 22 corps:13 (15) - 71.580 - Troopers
Unless a miracles happens, most likely this will be the year that Pioneer beats the Cascades, and no other corps. Pioneer in 09 is nowhere ready to be able to beat The Academy, who they currently would have to beat to make semis, Pioneer is currently 6 points behind the Academy.
Be realistic, in San Antonio, Atlanta and Indianapolis, Pioneer finishes 21st. Pioneer does not have the right staff or enough talented kids to make semis. Look at the bright side, Pioneer won't be in last place this year. Be happy about that.
If you would have read the post*, you would have seen that the 63.680 was Pioneer's average score based upon their last five scores. As far as DCI brass experience, DCI style is what DCI brass judges are looking for, DCA style is what they definitely don't want to hear.
*"based upon the last 5 shows Pioneer is currently ranked 21st ". As of last night, based on the newest scores, Pioneer is in second to last place, ann they are only .5 from being in last place.
Hey everyone here is an idea. Shut up about who is better. These Pioneer kids work their asses off everyday just like every other corp. Who are you to belittle the work these kids do? I have a ton of friends who have marched Pioneer and I am damn proud of all they have done whether their first or not.
Also, Pioneer is slotted in 16th currently for the 2009 season.
I know its unlikely but this years show is way way way different than any pio show in their history. And as an 08 alumni I feel that this year they could possibly beat a few corps and have somewhat of a chance at making semifinals for the first time in 9 years.
This years 09 Pioneer show has an "Irish theme", right?. Same hats, same Irish theme. How is that any different? Two different adults at Pioneer told me that as of June 1, 2009 Pioneer had less than 70 students. The Academy and Pacific Crest have full sized corps.
Could Pioneer beat the Mandarins, Seattle Cascades or Jersey Surf? Perhaps they could, but I see no reason to think that Pioneer has a snowballs chance of beating the Academy or the Troopers. To make semi finals in 09, Pioneer would have to beat the Seattle Cascades, Jersey Surf, the Mandarins , Pacific Crest, PLUS either the Troopers, the Crossmen, Spirit or the Academy. This is not very likely at all, but yes you do have a chance. I wish Pioneer all the best in 09, see you on 2nd tour.
Forgot to mention the Colts, who I predict will move up not down in rank in 09. I also predict that the Academy will move up in rank in 09. Based upon last years Quarterfinal scores, for Pioneer to make semis, they would have to beat Seattle, Jersey Surf, the Mandarins, Pacific Crest and the Academy:
I went to milwaukee last week to see how this years show is progressing and I can hear and see the potential this show has. Also the years that pio did make semifinals they had the smallest div. 1 corps in dci both of those years. Im not saying they are guaranteed semifinals but it wouldn't surprise me if they did make it back to semi's.
Again, I think you are missing the obvious, sort of living in Pioneer denial if you will. When Pioneer made semi finals, DCI was at a different level. Today, this summer, Pioneer would , with 40 horns or so, and not 40 kids who are all strong - seasoned players, beat two corps, The Academy and Pacific Crest who have had full sized talented corps since before Christmas. I think Pioneers chance of beating both of those corps in 09 is about the same as Pioneeer beating the Boston Crusaders in 09.
Yes I marched in 2 top 12 world class corps and one open class corps. I am now teaching my 4th corps. This is not about me. I listened to all of Pio's hype last season about making semi's. It is , imho not a very realistic goal. Why set the kids up just to fail? A much more realistic goal for Pioneer in 09 would be for them to beat the Mandarins. Because I have not seen Jersey or Seattle I am not 100 % sure , but perhaps Pioneer could set a goal of trying to beat these two corps as well in 09.
Piobari, please list for us all of the logical reasons why you believe that in 2009 Pioneer is better than the Academy:
___________________________
Go back and watch the Academy's Youtube video's from 08, and compare them with Pioneers video's from 2008. Do you really believe that Pioneer is competitively even close to being on the Academy's level?
Please tell us why?
Please tell us WHY Pioneer in 09 is so different, or so much better than any Pioneer corps of the past?
I think this was my first week at Pioneer I remember I got bad suburn, all the black rubber stuff stuck to my legs when I sat, and gigantic fuzzy moths kept hitting me in the head. I loved it :]
This was such a great summer for Pioneer! It was my pleasure to work with motivated and hard working members, I look forward to see what Pioneer can do as they try build to build off this successful show, going into the 2009 season. This Corps is filled with such a rich history, I cant wait to see them start to crawl up the DCI ladder, and I have a good felling about 2009.
Have you marched drum corps? When you march for a Corp like Pio you do not base your summer on were you place, rather on the successful accomplishment of a grater goal.
The way Pio rolling this year I could see a step up in the overall standings. Pio was great in many ways last year and will be great for many years to come.
.....by doing the very best at all times we will have a winning corps.
All the brass staff has top 12 experience in dci and dca, visual caption head marched phantom in 91 and 92. Drum line has usually beaten a few other drumlines each year.
piobari 2 years ago
Pioneer has finished in last place six of the last seven years, finishing second to last place once. Pioneer has most of the same staff who have a solid history of losing. What is the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Without reason this discussion started because of Pioneer hype that Pioneer would make 17th place or better. Pioneer is currently in 21st place, and only .5 points from last place. So why is Pioneer 2009 now any different ?
trumpetofyhvh 2 years ago
What Pioneer is doing is not working. Be honest, take a look at Pioneer's placements:
2009 ? ( Currenly in 2nd to last)
2008 Last Place
2007 Last Place
2006 Last Place
2005 2nd to Last Place
2004 Last Place
2003 Last Place
2002 Last Place
Wishing Pioneer Well in 09.
trumpetofyhvh 2 years ago
Ok pio has a great staff this year. The brass caption head is in his 3rd year at pio and most of the brass visual and color guard staff is back from last year. The percussion staff is mostly made of the staff from the indoor drumline that has won 2 wgi titles in the past 3 years. This years show the opener is irish, but its a more contemporary irish and the closer is not irish at all. Also I recently spent a week volunteering with the corps and they moved up about 5 points in about 3 shows.
piobari 2 years ago
Pioneer does not compete in the top division in WGI Indoor. Pioneer's 09 staff has very little top 12 DCI experience, either in marching or teaching. Pioneer has finished last or second to last place for most of the decade. What Pioneer is doing is not working. Let Roman Jr. run the corps, lose the hats, recruit staff with top 12 DCI not DCA teaching - or marching experience and work on improving recruiting. Pioneer is more like an open class corps, but there is no money if you compete there.
trumpetofyhvh 2 years ago
Now I can't go around saying I know for a fact that Pio's going to make semi finals, THIS YEAR, but I can say that this is the year pioneer becomes competitive. This is the year Pioneer isn't at the bottom of the list. This will be the year that Pioneer breaks the 75 point barrier that's been holding it back since 2002. And if Pio doesn't make semi finals this year, I STRONGLY believe that THIS will be the last year it will spend out of Semi-Finals.
tunks809 2 years ago
Please, don't be silly. Where is your evidence that Pioneer can beat a corps on the level of the Academy?
I like Pioneer , but they are not even close to competing on a corps like the Academy's level. Pioneer will have to beat a corps like the Academy in order to make semi finals. Let's be honest, to date, Pioneer is not even close.
trumpetofyhvh 2 years ago
Ok, I have to back up PioBari for a bit (after all he was my section leader in '08) The 2009 Pioneer CANNOT be compared to the 2008 pioneer by any means. I have marched Pioneer in 2008 and attended 2009 camps, and I can tell you that they are two TOTALLY different Pioneers. First off, we've kept the most of the same staff . Also, in the beginning of 2009, everyone was very clear of the seasons goal. MAKE SEMI-FINALS, and that's probably the biggest difference, Motivation.
tunks809 2 years ago
The numbers do not lie, Pioneer is NOT currently ranked 16th, based upon the last 5 shows Pioneer is currently ranked 21st out of 22 corps:13 (15) - 71.580 - Troopers
14 (14) - 71.550 - Spirit
15 (13) - 71.100 - Madison Scouts
16 (17) - 70.690 - Crossmen
17 (16) - 69.350 - The Academy
18 (18) - 67.400 - Jersey Surf
19 (19) - 66.770 - Mandarins
20 (20) - 65.600 - Pacific Crest
21 (21) - 63.680 - Pioneer
22 (22) - 63.367 - Cascades
trumpetofyhvh 2 years ago
Unless a miracles happens, most likely this will be the year that Pioneer beats the Cascades, and no other corps. Pioneer in 09 is nowhere ready to be able to beat The Academy, who they currently would have to beat to make semis, Pioneer is currently 6 points behind the Academy.
trumpetofyhvh 2 years ago
Be realistic, in San Antonio, Atlanta and Indianapolis, Pioneer finishes 21st. Pioneer does not have the right staff or enough talented kids to make semis. Look at the bright side, Pioneer won't be in last place this year. Be happy about that.
trumpetofyhvh 2 years ago
I don't know where you're getting 63.680. Pioneer's Last Score was 66.5, just in case you haven't heard about ceadarburg.
tunks809 2 years ago
If you would have read the post*, you would have seen that the 63.680 was Pioneer's average score based upon their last five scores. As far as DCI brass experience, DCI style is what DCI brass judges are looking for, DCA style is what they definitely don't want to hear.
*"based upon the last 5 shows Pioneer is currently ranked 21st ". As of last night, based on the newest scores, Pioneer is in second to last place, ann they are only .5 from being in last place.
trumpetofyhvh 2 years ago
Hey everyone here is an idea. Shut up about who is better. These Pioneer kids work their asses off everyday just like every other corp. Who are you to belittle the work these kids do? I have a ton of friends who have marched Pioneer and I am damn proud of all they have done whether their first or not.
Also, Pioneer is slotted in 16th currently for the 2009 season.
axnamexinxlights 2 years ago
It is highly unlikely that in 2009 Pioneer will beat any world class corps that they competed against in 2008.
trumpetofyhvh 2 years ago
I know its unlikely but this years show is way way way different than any pio show in their history. And as an 08 alumni I feel that this year they could possibly beat a few corps and have somewhat of a chance at making semifinals for the first time in 9 years.
piobari 2 years ago
This years 09 Pioneer show has an "Irish theme", right?. Same hats, same Irish theme. How is that any different? Two different adults at Pioneer told me that as of June 1, 2009 Pioneer had less than 70 students. The Academy and Pacific Crest have full sized corps.
trumpetofyhvh 2 years ago
Could Pioneer beat the Mandarins, Seattle Cascades or Jersey Surf? Perhaps they could, but I see no reason to think that Pioneer has a snowballs chance of beating the Academy or the Troopers. To make semi finals in 09, Pioneer would have to beat the Seattle Cascades, Jersey Surf, the Mandarins , Pacific Crest, PLUS either the Troopers, the Crossmen, Spirit or the Academy. This is not very likely at all, but yes you do have a chance. I wish Pioneer all the best in 09, see you on 2nd tour.
trumpetofyhvh 2 years ago
Re:
Forgot to mention the Colts, who I predict will move up not down in rank in 09. I also predict that the Academy will move up in rank in 09. Based upon last years Quarterfinal scores, for Pioneer to make semis, they would have to beat Seattle, Jersey Surf, the Mandarins, Pacific Crest and the Academy:
13 Crossmen 84.825
14 Colts 84.450
15 Spirit 83.350
16 Troopers 81.500
17 Pacific Crest 79.350
18 The Academy 78.850
19 Mandarins 77.925
20 Pioneer 74.125
trumpetofyhvh 2 years ago
On second thought, after some reflection upon what I said, I do think Pioneer might have a chance of beating the Mandarins in 09.
trumpetofyhvh 2 years ago
I went to milwaukee last week to see how this years show is progressing and I can hear and see the potential this show has. Also the years that pio did make semifinals they had the smallest div. 1 corps in dci both of those years. Im not saying they are guaranteed semifinals but it wouldn't surprise me if they did make it back to semi's.
piobari 2 years ago
Again, I think you are missing the obvious, sort of living in Pioneer denial if you will. When Pioneer made semi finals, DCI was at a different level. Today, this summer, Pioneer would , with 40 horns or so, and not 40 kids who are all strong - seasoned players, beat two corps, The Academy and Pacific Crest who have had full sized talented corps since before Christmas. I think Pioneers chance of beating both of those corps in 09 is about the same as Pioneeer beating the Boston Crusaders in 09.
trumpetofyhvh 2 years ago
Have you ever marched corps?
piobari 2 years ago
Yes I marched in 2 top 12 world class corps and one open class corps. I am now teaching my 4th corps. This is not about me. I listened to all of Pio's hype last season about making semi's. It is , imho not a very realistic goal. Why set the kids up just to fail? A much more realistic goal for Pioneer in 09 would be for them to beat the Mandarins. Because I have not seen Jersey or Seattle I am not 100 % sure , but perhaps Pioneer could set a goal of trying to beat these two corps as well in 09.
trumpetofyhvh 2 years ago
Piobari, please list for us all of the logical reasons why you believe that in 2009 Pioneer is better than the Academy:
___________________________
Go back and watch the Academy's Youtube video's from 08, and compare them with Pioneers video's from 2008. Do you really believe that Pioneer is competitively even close to being on the Academy's level?
Please tell us why?
Please tell us WHY Pioneer in 09 is so different, or so much better than any Pioneer corps of the past?
Thanks
trumpetofyhvh 2 years ago
Piobari:
Please see my comments on Pioneer 08 Quarterfinals for my evaluation of 08 Pioneer.
Thanks.
trumpetofyhvh 2 years ago
Comment removed
tunks809 2 years ago
I love the style and the sound, guard is simply amazing. :]
flagget11 2 years ago
any body have some old 2000 footage you can convert to post?
conradcracker 3 years ago
We could have done better that night
fstdrumboy 3 years ago
I think this was my first week at Pioneer I remember I got bad suburn, all the black rubber stuff stuck to my legs when I sat, and gigantic fuzzy moths kept hitting me in the head. I loved it :]
birdi3984 3 years ago
This was such a great summer for Pioneer! It was my pleasure to work with motivated and hard working members, I look forward to see what Pioneer can do as they try build to build off this successful show, going into the 2009 season. This Corps is filled with such a rich history, I cant wait to see them start to crawl up the DCI ladder, and I have a good felling about 2009.
Better Every Day
weshender 3 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
i don't think that they're going to do that great.
but not to be a dick but, it's not that hard to climb up the ladder from nothing lol
at all there competitions last year they got last place lol
just a little insight
betterthaneddie 2 years ago
Have you marched drum corps? When you march for a Corp like Pio you do not base your summer on were you place, rather on the successful accomplishment of a grater goal.
The way Pio rolling this year I could see a step up in the overall standings. Pio was great in many ways last year and will be great for many years to come.
.....by doing the very best at all times we will have a winning corps.
That is all that matters
weshender 2 years ago 3
i loved it rehearsing there it was fun
kylosme 3 years ago 3
Very cool. Love the Holst suite!! Great job Pioneer, from an '06 age-out!
therookout 3 years ago 3