I can't believe he didn't ask her "what if you're wrong?"! Pascal's wager doesn't work. The "What if you're wrong" question can be asked of any theist.
Shermer stated that applying human emotions like love, hate, and anger to an omnipotent being is ridiculous. But what if he's got it backwards, if humans were made in God's image maybe love, hate, and anger are divine concepts that he applied to us instead. I've never seen a bacteria get pissed or a bird get depressed. Dogs come close but thats only because they've actually evolved to mimic human emotion and read facial expressions.
@RivaWitch NO ONE has ever walked the earth, did the things that Jesus did or said the things that Jesus said. I believe he was God in the flesh, and that is good enough for we Christians. You are free to believe whatever you wish... we all are!
If christians are wrong, they still spent their lives obeying the commandments, doing charity, helping the poor (if they were good christians) and only good can come from that. It's a win/win.
The only thing I don't like is the priests attitude. I see one very humble man trying his best to have a conclusive discussion and then when the priest starts to talk all I can hear is this pretentious tone like he's explaining something to someone, "stupid"
Shermer, you are an idiot!!! If you really do think how you treat others is so important, where did you get this idea from? Certainly not from atheism, because there isn't anything in there that allows for that idea. And let's suppose for a moment you are talking right to God...if you're doing that, wouldn't that make all your doubt and skepticism wrong?
Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good. And what does the lord require of you, But to do justice, to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God.
@TheGoat1954 You inadvertantly neglected to mention these important verses:
Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. Numbers 31:17-18
“Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.” (Jesus speaking) (Matthew 15:4)
Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death. (Exodus 31:15)
If I had a dollar for every atheist who took bible verses out of context...:)
First and third are not teachings that made it into the NT. Since those are both from the Torah, I find your take very antisemitic. The second one is misquoted. Here's what it really says: Honour thy father and mother: And: He that shall curse father or mother, let him die the death. He's actually talking to the Pharisees and pointing out their ignorance.
@MrTrilliondollarman Excuse me Sir, but I was a Christian for twenty years and my parents sent me to Christian schools since kindergarten. I am well aware of biblical content and I didn't take anything "out of context". Becoming more familiar with my Bible resulted in my apostasy. The god of the Old Testament is EXACTLY the same god as in the New Testament. Nothing has changed. Just because most Christians prefer to ignore or euphemistically interpret the Old Testament is immaterial.
You most certainly did take all of them out of context. You didn't go to Christian schools..if you did, you would not have made such an amateur mistake. Becoming MUCH more versed in the Bible lead me AWAY from atheism. Because you can't get basic facts right, why the hell should anyone listen to you?
@MrTrilliondollarman Excerpt: James McCarter of Divergence Incorporated states that the work of 2001 Nobel Prize winner Leland Hartwell which has substantial implications for combatting cancer relied heavily on the use of evolutionary knowledge and predictions. McCarter points out that 47 of the last 50 Nobel Prizes in medicine or physiology also depended on the use of EVOLUTIONARY theory.
Scientists don't win Nobel Prizes in medicine and physiology based on a non-existent theory.l
@MrTrilliondollarman Sir, I couldn't care less if you don't believe that I didn't go to Christian schools. Why don't you tell that to my parents...they had to pay for them. During one of the school assemblies while the pastor was preaching...my dad was in attendance when the pastor began telling the "evils of triple-beat rock music". My did IMMEDIATELY removed us from that school...unfortunately we were registered in another Christian school shortly afterward. My dad was a rock music fan.
@MrTrilliondollarman Organisms can be grouped by sequence similarity via DNA sequence comparison and the resulting phylogenetic trees are consistent with taxonomy. Scientists had envisioned the paleontological tree of life long before it was CONFIRMED by DNA sequence analysis. Consequently, evolution is one of the most validated theories in all of science.
Again, takes nothing away from the fact Gregor Mandel (CATHOLIC MONK) is the father of genetics and saw no contradictions between his work and the Bible.
@MrTrilliondollarman Article from Christplagiarized(dot)com: Scientists had to suffer torture, silencing, imprisonment and death at the hands of Christians who didn't agree with newly discovered facts about the world. Christianity lost the first battle with astronomers who realized that, contrary to what Christians asserted, the Sun did not orbit the Earth, and that the Universe doesn't seem to be designed specifically for humankind.
Then that article is wrong. Christianity has NEVER been hostile to science and in fact the great Catholic universities of Europe were the first places dedicated to scientific discovery.
@MrTrilliondollarman "Then that article is wrong. Christianity has NEVER been hostile to science and in fact the great Catholic universities of Europe were the first places dedicated to scientific discovery."
Sir, you are in denial. Ever heard of Galileo? He was threatened with torture for claming that the earth was geocentric. Are you going to tell me that Galileo never existed and the history books are wrong?
@MrTrilliondollarman Also, diseases aren't caused by sin...and leprosy cleansing doesn't result from the "sprinkling of bird's blood". (Leviticus)
Your arguments are truly pathetic. As I said before, science has continually contradicted the Bible and this is readily apparent...you just prefer to ignore the facts.
@MrTrilliondollarman "Wrong again, idiot. No verse says that. Try to show it and I'll prove you wrong. Your IQ is pathetic. You wouldn't have science without the Bible so don't me that crap."
Sir, my IQ is 143 (Genius being 140+) and I was tested for MGM (Mentally Gifted Minds) twice when I was a child. Your insistence to insult me is very telling...I realize that is must be difficult to deal with FACTS and EVIDENCE which contradicts your ancient holy book.
@MrTrilliondollarman Mark 2:1-12 Equates palsy and sin. Exodus 4:10-11 says how god fucks over people's health. Deuteronomy 7:12-15, obey god and you'll not get sick. Could go on to mention the curses/sickness god supposedly placed on Egyptians and others. Leviticus 14:7 for the cure of leprosy.
Mark 2:1-12 says no such thing. Jesus healed the cripple to show how they can believe He forgives sins. Exodus verse actually shows God in helping Moses get over his speech impairment. Deuto says a lot more than that; you oversimplified. You could, but you would get that wrong too. That Lev talks about AFTER leprosy is cured, not an how to.
@MrTrilliondollarman "You wouldn't have science without the Bible so don't me that crap."
If we didn't have the bible, which dragged western civilization down the drains, our civilization might well have been built by people like those who made the Antikythera mechanism. Those people were clearly of a scientific mindset and had capabilities comparable to post-dark ages Europe in some areas over a century before Jesus allegedly walked the earth.
Dragged it down the drain? What drugs are you on? The Bible SAVED Western civilization. The mechanism looks interesting but your stand is pure speculation not based on anything other than specious reasoning so it is rejected.
@MrTrilliondollarman Chances are we'd have colonized mars by now in that case. Of course, it would also have helped if the other branches of Abrahamic demonology didn't exist.
You mean it is thanks to Abrahamic faith (Christianity especially) that we even went to space in the first place. Of course Mars will be achieved once atheism is thrown in the trash like all the other rubbish in the world.
@MrTrilliondollarman That's nice. Will God build us a wooden ark to get there? Or the formulas to make the mission a success? Why doesn't God just move Mars closer so we can just take an airplane? Better yet, why not teleport us there? No spaceship? Why didn't God give inter-spacial travel to the Middle East way back? Or medicines or cures to cancer? Or even tell us about bacteria? Funny, God seems to only take credit for things once they're done and discovered. Kinda like He's not there...
Or...it's almost as if human thought or imagination didn't exist in a vacuum...it's almost as if the source of both is beyond our own power, because saying we gave ourselves these abilities is just nonsense...much like you.
@MrTrilliondollarman Like me? I guess that means you're wrong then, hunh? Apparently, you're saying that humans, through billions of years of evolving into a being that can talk to each other through electricity, aren't capable of being sapient all on their own. I wonder what you'll think of a lion chasing after you. You won't be thinking that God must be controlling him! Then again, giving equivocations like "power" or "thought" is such a classic creationist argument.
@MrTrilliondollarman Funny how an atheist that doesn't know much used "sapience" in reference to our species classification: homo sapien. If you chose to insult a particular argument against you, rather than prove it wrong and provide evidence why you are right, then you--among billions--are just another automaton among ranks of zealots who can't provide anything other than a bad attitude to combat reason.
@MrTrilliondollarman Also, Evolutional theory completely disproves the myth of Creation. No Creation = No original sin = No need for Yahweh/Jesus' malodorous cloud of self-sacrificing effluvium.
Science has continually and progressively contradicted the Bible as time goes by. Apparently the biblical god was scientifically illiterate.
News flash: you wouldn't even have biology in general if it weren't for Christianity. Evolutionary theory disproves nothing in the Bible. I've heard your crap argument so many times, I know what you will say, how you will say it, and the counterarguments to anything you can come up with. Just try to fight me...I dare you.
@MrTrilliondollarman This is just hilarious. If you have actually seen my arguments then you would realize they are based on FACTS AND EVIDENCE. Not a book which espouses men living in whale bellies for three days and women turning into salt. The Bible is filled with a veritable plethora of contradictions and inaccuracies which are exhibited with only a brief perusal.
You said "Just try to fight me...I dare you"
That is truly laughable. Ancient holy books < FACTS and EVIDENCE.
Bullshit. I already showed you misquoted a whole verse. The Bible has no contradictions in it whatsoever and you clearly have never heard of the word parable.
The bible=Facts and evidence. It's just that simple. The only joke here is your obvious ignorance.
Uh, no you didn't. Those biblical quotes are taken from one of the MANY different versions of the Bible. As I said before, ignoring them doesn't change anything.
You also said "The Bible has no contradictions in it whatsoever...
You still misquoted it. Jesus is talking to the Pharisees and how they got things wrong. YOU don't know what you're talking about. Try pulling your head out of your ass first.
@MrTrilliondollarman You said "You still misquoted it. Jesus is talking to the Pharisees and how they got things wrong. YOU don't know what you're talking about. Try pulling your head out of your ass first."
THIS IS ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE. You attempted to eliminate the distasteful part of the verse...I proved you were wrong and then you attempt to back-pedal. This is truly pathetic.
@stephenabm said [[Everyone needs to go to "23 minutes in hell" as it is here on youtube by a bill weisse. Please watch it and follow your heart!]]
My "heart" tells me that a 'god' who demands that I believe and worship him, upon the threat of eternal torture, is a Vlad Dracula type tyrant that I would never choose to "serve" under any circumstances. Such a "lord and master" would be an immature, sadistic beast.
[Personal note: Ppl like stephenabm always make my faith in humanity take one hell of a nosedive, but I guess I'm used to it by now. Gotta say I like the moderates alot more, I may think they're a little gullible but they're mostly kind and empathetic people that actually CARE about right and wrong, have a concience and REJECT the notion of hell both as a reality and as a justifiable construct. Unlike the monster I just addressed...]
This atheist will have a rather rude awakening when he dies and is thrown into hell. If one does not believe in his creator, he accepts the opposite of God - lucifer! There is only one way to heaven and this through Jesus Christ!
@grozde Oh trust me you don't have to hope. Run your mouth all you want, you're young, stupid, arrogant, and self absorbed. The reality is I can explain to you the innermost secrets of the Bible but you will always think of it as the babble. I know more about physics than a dog like you could ever dream. In essence, keep it up chuckles, daddy will spank your ass when it's time.
"This atheist will have a rather rude awakening when he dies and is thrown into hell~ There is only one way to heaven and this through Jesus Christ!"
You'd have to be really 'off' in the head in order to condone the eternal torture of good ppl just because they don't believe the unbelievable.
If you can truly accept hell, the immoral standard of judgement which you believe god enforces and promote the worship of said deity then you are a deranged excuse for a human being.
@Seymour13 Repent and accept Jesus Christ as your lord and savior, if you do not want to then watch this short video on you tube - 23 minutes in hell by someone who died for 23 minutes and was shown hell and experienced before coming back alive. If one does not accept God, he rejects him and will receive just punishment. Do not follow the atheist lie.
A JUST punishment?!, you've got some fucking nerve boy.
A system of redemption based on faith (and a lack there-of damning you for all eternity) is immoral, as are ALL people who put blind faith before character.
But no, your line of thought is *cough* obviously *cough* the right one: 'All non-believers DESERVE to burn forever'.
On your channel you claim to support freedom, but what you actually support is a never ending celestial dictatorship.
A dictatorship that enforces an immoral standard and is IMPOSSIBLE to overthrow (with the dictator being omniscient, omnipotent and eternal).
Your half-assed apologetics won't fly with me, if you are even remotely human then you know as well as I do that the system you propose is indeed immoral.
That prison analogy was beyond fucked up (and it just goes downhill from there).
Last time I checked the punishment in prison sure as fuck isn't ETERNAL (unlike the doctrine of hell; eternal punishment for finite crimes and even non-crimes).
And then the bit about the 'house' analogy; fact is that the world is more than big enough and has more than enough places where you can live.
While in the afterlife it's supposedly either heaven or hell with NOTHING in between, so if you don't believe then you're sent to hell by DEFAULT (and according to you ppl like me deserve it as you called it a 'just' punishment, fuck you, seriously.).
This shit has mafia boss analogy written all over it, I can't even last 15 minutes into the vid without getting physically sick at the sight of those deranged lunatics.
Now, back to the main topic; I would rather suffer for all eternity than endorse the endless torture of innocents based on non-belief, and as such I would never bend my knee to the vile 'demon' you propose as your deity.
One of the many reasons being that I care for my species and know that most people are generally good people undeserving of the fate you would gladly wish upon them (and me).
@Seymour13 Mr. Bill Weisse the author and one who died for 23 minutes and experienced hell (his soul left his body). His writings and speaking engagements was a dire warning to all. You can believe or follow the lie given by atheists, your choice. The bible is very clear on what he experienced. Repent and follow the true path to heaven. God loves you!
@stephenabm said [[His writings and speaking engagements was a dire warning to all.]]
Anyone who would call fear mongering a type of love is essentially insane. Insanity is not a clinical term, it's a legal term, and it means to be confused about right and wrong. If you don't know that threats of eternal torture is not an act of love, then you sound insane.
@stephenabm Sir, I watched the entire 47 minutes and 23 seconds of that video (it seemed so much longer) only because a devout believer said I couldn't scrutinize the allegation of being in hell for 23 minutes unless I watched the video. The man is incredibly delusional and there is ABSOLUTELY ZERO PROOF that he actually went to hell. (how surprising)
To be honest, evolutional theory completely disproves the Creation myth and consequently the biblical god doesn't appear to exist. Period.
@CynicalSkeptic1 You are an atheist, so you have made your decision to rebel against your creator and there is not much I can say to you. I will only state that many people have died for a few minutes to 45 minutes and have either travelled to heaven and saw Jesus or sent to hell, once returning to their body - they either come back very happy or terrified after experiencing hell. Most of the people who have this experience, make major changes in their life for the better!
@CynicalSkeptic1 His story is not the only one out there, many people who have died and came back tell of the same experience. When returning, they decide to change their life in a more positive way and work to make a positive difference in others lives. I have known others who were quite wealthy with good businesses and sold their business and focused on a less wealthy lifestyle to help their fellow man, as this is what they were advised when in heaven.
@stephenabm Sir, the biblical god doesn't appear to exist. Which version of heaven is allegedly seen by a religious believer is completely dependent on which religion they follow. Hindus and Muslims see a completely different version when they supposedly go to heaven for a "short time".
Also, the Bible isn't just inaccurate in relation to Creation...diseases also aren't caused by sin, the earth isn't geocentric, and leprosy cleansing doesn't result from the "sprinkling of bird's blood".
@stephenabm Article from Christplagiarized(dot)com: Scientists had to suffer torture, silencing, imprisonment and death at the hands of Christians who didn't agree with newly discovered facts about the world. Christianity lost the first battle with astronomers who realized that, contrary to what Christians asserted, the Sun did not orbit the Earth, and that the Universe doesn't seem to be designed specifically for humankind.
@stephenabm said [[ If one does not accept God, he rejects him and will receive just punishment. ]]
.
Christianity is the theory that exploiting the torture & crucifixion of an innocent person, who didn't deserve to die for sin-crimes he didn't commit, so that people who don't deserve it can go to paradise, is the ultimate form of goodness, and people who don't subscribe to this unjust exploitation deserve to be tortured in hell.
.
Of course, this is unjust, unfair and completely immoral.
I love christians who ask me 'what if you're wrong?' with their glazed smug eyes. It's not up to me to prove that something doesn't exist. It's up to them to prove to me something exists. And since they can't, the most logical conclusion is that there isn't a God. There's not one test you can perform that remotely points to a God existing.
Let’s work to eradicate all religion. Conversely, begin a relationship with Jesus Christ today. You need to repent. Yes, you. Moreover, you should ask God for eternal forgiveness through applying the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ to your life of sin within the quietness of your bedroom tonight. As an unrepentant sinner myself, I made this decision around 15 years ago. This is the most important decision that you could ever make. - Romans 10:9-10
@paularenas26 Why? This is the second time I've seen you post this and it's all nonsense. You're asking people to waste time repenting to nothing. How do you even know that the person reading this lives a life of sin? What if their only sin is not believing in an impossible God?
I don't think God is biting his fingernails worrying that you believe in Him. He gave you evidence. If you are truly interested in *truth* you would have pursued that evidence. But you haven't You've covered up the evidence. You've run from it.
@7micho7 Many might just be tired of being around so much cussing all the time. A lot of Christians might also get bored with all the hate. There are many reasons why atheism is much more popular to convert to than any of those dusty religions.
Atheism is a normal part of human evolution. Those still stuck in the stone age with their beliefs are just taking a little longer.
Now we know why those Europeans beat us in education and general tranquility. They dropped religion and presto!
He's the only one that can be right or wrong because he accepts the responsibility of basing his assertions or theories on observation, or knowledge of, the facts of reality. A person of 'faith' is merely a subjectivist who drops all intellectual pursuits and claims that whatever they believe must be true, because they believe it.
"What difference does it make whether I believe or not?, isn't it more important how you comport yourself in life and how you treat other people?"
Granny: *shakes head in disapproval*.
That right there tells me everything I need to know, that granny is immoral.
A system of redemption based on faith (and a lack of faith damning you for all eternity) is immoral, as are all people who put blind faith before character.
Riiiight, the idea that being a good person is more important than whether or not you believe the unbelievable is obviously an 'outworking of a white, western, post-enlightenment philosophy. A philosophy which is completely and utterly unprovable'.
"You will be judged. We all will"
Now for the $100 question, do you agree (or do you disagree) with the following statement:
The only moral standard of judgement is one where ppl are judged based on whether or not they are good people.
@Seymour13 I know what you mean. I try to argue christians that this doctrine of theirs is immoral but they keep 'ping-ponging' between, 'we're saved by grace alone' and 'You need to follow the ten commandments.'
Well, which is it!? It frustrates me how immoral it is, yet they still claim the moral highground.
A question for granny would be, 'would a believing child killer go to heaven?' The christian answer, 'No, because a TRUE christian wouldn't act that way!' Uggh, so frustrating!
The guy who cures cancer. Say he's an atheist. Will he go to hell? Do you even want to ponder the idea? I sure as hell fucking don't. So i choose to live the way a peaceful and sane person would. Not wishing harm upon a human being, and helping them when i can.
Well according to the bible God did become human, Maybe that's where his human traits started, But then again he was extremely jealous in the old testament before Jesus ever came, Interesting debate :)
First of all, they already failed on who to get to answer this atheist's questions. I wouldn't be asking a Catholic priest about the subject, but I guess everybody has a right. A right to be wrong that is.
He did tell us and if you read the Bible with an open mind you might have a different opinion. A good book for you to read is "In sixth Days" a book with essays from over 150 scientist from all fields from philosophy to genetics who believe and tell you why. Another book is William Murray (son of Madlyn Murry Ohair) book "my life without God" where he sets out to disprove the Bible and became a Christian. God loves you and so do I.
The woman presented Pascal's Wager and shook her head at the notion of behavior holding greater importance than conformity of perspective. The priest accused the atheist of "jumping around" a question that wasn't asked. Quite a sorry display.
@tylerdurden666able they are monkeys... its a valid classification. The only way to change that would be to remove all primate tissue. Since most humans won't replace every cell in their bodies all humans can be called monkeys ;p
0.50 Michael Shermer is full of it. Sorry, but you cant stand before God and claim I have never lied, I never stole or spoke an unkind word to anyone.
if the biblical god was or is real he would be like the gods of the greeks & egyptians, but all in one, sounds psychotic in action and schizophrenic in it's rationale
I love how, before he is even finished speaking, the lady just condescendingly smiles and tilts and shakes her head. That gesture is one of the biggest things that is wrong with most religion - the refusal to so much as respect another viewpoint, let alone consider it or accept it.
She may as well have interrupted him to say, "Look, that's very cute, but you're still going to hell for your carefully thought-out and considered opinion." Why let him finish talking if you're not going to listen to what he has to say? Hell, why let him start?
@SolipsismSyndrome I think you need to extend the same courtesy to her. Why do you, without even letting her speak for herself, put these words into her mouth? It sounds like you're doing exactly what you're acusing her of.
@muel0341 I didn't see her trying to speak for herself, or else I would have sat quietly and listened to it. Instead, all I saw was a person ask an atheist "What if you're wrong?" and then, throughout his response, demonstrate via clear body language that she wasn't interested in it. I'm by no means accusing her of putting words in anyone's mouth, so accusing me of putting words in her mouth and then telling me I'm doing exactly what I'm accusing her of is a little nonsensical.
@SolipsismSyndrome It doesn't sounds at all nonsensical to me. Your accusation is that she is thinking he is going to hell, that shes (and by extension you apply this to religion and religious people in general) "refusing to so much as respect another viewpoint, let alone consider it or accept it." - and it seems pretty clear to me that you are placing this judgement on her without even letter her speak for herself - isn't that just a bit hypocritical?
@muel0341 Honestly? She'd be a hypocrite if she didn't think he was going to hell. That isn't an "accusation", it's a fact, and I don't fault her for thinking that he's going to hell, whether I agree or not. All I'm saying is, when people explain opinions with which I disagree, especially when I asked them for those opinions in the first place, I don't smile and shake my head. It's disrespectful and arrogant.
And yes, I am in fact saying that religious people in general refuse to respect and consider others' viewpoints. I acknowledge that that's a hurtful stereotype, but I'm one of those evil people who think stereotypes exist for a reason. This one isn't universally true, but there are far too many people that fit into it.
@SolipsismSyndrome the problem is that you're jumping to the conclusion that she is thinkin he is going to hell. That's pretty damn presumptuous if you ask me. I am a Roman Catholic. And according to my religion, there is no reason to think that all atheists go to hell. I don;t think it's arrogant at all, in fact I think it's probably the most respectful thing she could have done. Would you prefer if she started screaming "You're going to hell!"?
@muel0341 According to your interpretation of your religion, perhaps. The most respectful thing she could have done would have been to listen without nonverbally replying via such condescending body language. Actually, the most respectful thing she could have done would have been to not ask such a stale and frankly leading question.
I know it's certainly not the first time I've heard an atheist (or anyone) asked "What if your opinion is wrong?" At this point, asking it again is just a marginally subtler way of saying "I believe you're wrong, and you already know that I believe you're wrong, but I want you to express your opinion so I have something to mock."
@SolipsismSyndrome I just don't see it as condescending at all. When you disagree with someone, I think it's a lot more dishonest to pretend like you don't disagree. She is respecfully expressing that she hears what he is saying, but nontheless, disagrees with him. How is that condescending. I think you are letting your atheism cloud your judgement. If this were a different topic, I don't think you would be saying the same thing.
Religion and religious people are closed minded by nature. They *have* to believe what they are told, or they do not get to be a part of that group. It's been that way since the caveman days.
...but you don't have to be closed minded to believe in a God... There are thousands, if not millions, of people who believe in God, but not organized religion...I am one of them, as was Ben Franklin, Albert Einstein, Thomas Jefferson and many of the world's most famous thinkers.
I also think that science is our best tool for answering the questions we have about the world, nature and the universe....but I don't think one precludes the other. Science works with repeatable, observable evidence... A belief in God is about faith... They are two separate fields of thought, and yet they *can* co-exist. Where we have problems is where groups of *men* write a book and start using it to control others, saying "God talked to me and this is his law."
@stonedkisses It is always very easy to look at the other as closed-minded. But to a religious person, you sound very closed to the idea that God could infact have communicated His will to people and through people. It's too easy to just call other people "closed minded by nature", without really demonstrating anything. There are many religious people who did great things too - Mother Theresa, Desmond TuTu, Martin Luther King, Thomas Aquinas, Francis Collins, JRR Tolkien,...
Don't miss the point. Atheists are definitely not wrong. Creationists are barking mad and proud to remain stupid, like a juror who goes into the jury room with 11 others and spews out his belief that the man is guilty, and the others vote not guilty. There is the Christian dilemma.
Shermer is so Honest with himself on the other hand the priest is suspect .... because god has to be concerned with mortal praise so as to have a job for the priest to do . It seems clear that if there was a God that that exist that did not concern its self with being believed .... The priest would have to find a honest living . And not a job as a mediator to a all knowing deity . Believe so i can do gods work . Does a all know diety need to employ people to inform other people ? No !!!!
What is the point of a God that doesn't care a wit about his creation? An omnipotent God should care infinitely about his creation. Shermer's logic is backwards.
"Without God, all things are lawful" - Dostoyevsky
Shermers reponse doesn't make any sense. HoIf you don't believe in God, you can do basically anything and rationalize your way into believing that you are "doing't the right thing".
What is the right thing to do? This is exactly the question that Theism answers!
Shermer, as an atheist, has to deal with the fact that on his worldview - the kind of morality he is invoking in this video - is nothing more than a personal opinion.
And if you DO believe in a "god", you can justify doing any immorality in the name of that "god", whether it's burning or stoning people to death, or slavery, or even flying airplanes into buildings; if you can get someone to believe an absurdity like "an invisible magic man in the sky told me that he wants you to do X", then you can get them to do ANYTHING.
And if you DO believe in a "god", you can justify doing any immorality in the name of that "god", whether it's burning or stoning people to death, or slavery, or even flying airplanes into buildings; if you can get someone to believe an absurdity like "an invisible magic man in the sky told me that he wants you to do X", then you can get them to do ANYTHING.
And if you DO believe in a "god", you can justify doing any immorality in the name of that "god", whether it's burning or stoning people to death, or slavery, or even flying airplanes into buildings; if you can get someone to believe an absurdity like "an invisible magic man in the sky told me that he wants you to do X", then you can get them to do ANYTHING.
And if you DO believe in a "god", you can justify doing any immorality in the name of that "god", whether it's burning or stoning people to death, or slavery, or even flying airplanes into buildings; if you can get someone to believe an absurdity like "an invisible magic man in the sky told me that he wants you to do X", then you can get them to do ANYTHING.
It will always come down to faith because you do not know and you will not untill you ask God to reveal himself to you. But most peolpe think that is beneath them. I just say that if you don't like what's going on in your life and you want something better try Jesus. If it doesn't work out the devil will always take you back. If things are going good then I guess its just a fork in the road. But the only way to know is to try.
I think the answer to this question is in the first book of the Bible and could be answere probably in the first chaper. He created Adam for a relationship. Before there was just his creation. He made Adam to feel, think, and so on. But, Adam failed which caused a distance that is still the issue today. But today you can solve the problem by believing and accepting Jesus. If you do that, then you will see what you are really looking for, and you will know that you've found it.
If there IS a GOD then its his/its wish that you are either a believe in him...or not. If God exists then you are an atheist BECAUSE God wants you to be one....until he/it wishes you to be a believer in him/it. If God knows and controls all things then this must be true.....no?
@HamNCheezeNLuv ...he would be a pretty shit second rate God if he wasn't in control of everything don't you think? He's GOD...its his job to be running everything in the existence he supposedly created.
Why would God care? Well, IF God exists (the kind of God that religious people believe in) THEN it makes perfect sense that God would care. We are not imposing our emotions on God, but rather it is BECAUSE GOD HAS THESE QUALITIES, the we have these qualities. We can only have reason, because God had reason first. Without a foundation there is no basis for caring. God is that foundation.
@laprofessorapai That's not how Pascal phrased the argument. These kinds of objections don't touch Pascals original argument which basically makes the point that you have nothing to lose and everything to gain. It's a pragmatic argument, not an epistemological argument. If you could play the lottery for free, you probably wouldn't object "well which lottery should I play?" no that completely misses the point.
@muel0341 ....But if God exists and is everything its cracked up to be he will know that you are faking it .....that you have crossed your fingers behind your back. And if you are a death bed convert out of fear of possible nasty consequences in a supposed afterlife then how is that just towards the near life long believer who has put in the miles over time and devotion?
@laprofessorapai But that's not Pascals argument. Pascal is arguing that if you could play the lottery for free, you have everything to win and nothing to lose so why not believe? Just by objecting "well which lottery?" that doesn't even touch Pascals argument which is pragmatic and NOT Epistemic or Ontic.
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Isn't it more important how I comport myself in life and how I treat people?
*shakes her head no*
mangusrah 3 days ago
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mangusrah 3 days ago
I can't believe he didn't ask her "what if you're wrong?"! Pascal's wager doesn't work. The "What if you're wrong" question can be asked of any theist.
christo930 1 week ago
Shermer stated that applying human emotions like love, hate, and anger to an omnipotent being is ridiculous. But what if he's got it backwards, if humans were made in God's image maybe love, hate, and anger are divine concepts that he applied to us instead. I've never seen a bacteria get pissed or a bird get depressed. Dogs come close but thats only because they've actually evolved to mimic human emotion and read facial expressions.
Wilsontheterrible 1 week ago
Shermer (and all of us will find out one day). If he is right, no big deal... on the other hand....OOPS!!!!!
MemoryTechnologies 1 week ago
i believe in god (nature goodwill people harmony, not a grey haired man in the sky) but i do agree with the atheist
JeriDro 1 week ago
0:56 OWNED!
JeriDro 1 week ago
What if Christians are wrong?
RivaWitch 2 weeks ago
@RivaWitch NO ONE has ever walked the earth, did the things that Jesus did or said the things that Jesus said. I believe he was God in the flesh, and that is good enough for we Christians. You are free to believe whatever you wish... we all are!
MemoryTechnologies 1 week ago
@MemoryTechnologies Chill out!
RivaWitch 1 week ago
@RivaWitch
If christians are wrong, they still spent their lives obeying the commandments, doing charity, helping the poor (if they were good christians) and only good can come from that. It's a win/win.
CollectivePreference 1 day ago
The only thing I don't like is the priests attitude. I see one very humble man trying his best to have a conclusive discussion and then when the priest starts to talk all I can hear is this pretentious tone like he's explaining something to someone, "stupid"
Alecmmhm 2 weeks ago
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Some people want young white females to mix with non-white males.
I made a one-minute video highlighting a very small sample of race-mixing advertisements.
I love white people, and I am opposed to race-mixing. But I do not hate non-whites.
If you click on my name “awhitesoul2012” highlighted in blue below this comment, you can watch my video.
Thanks.
awhitesoul2012 3 weeks ago
Shermer, you are an idiot!!! If you really do think how you treat others is so important, where did you get this idea from? Certainly not from atheism, because there isn't anything in there that allows for that idea. And let's suppose for a moment you are talking right to God...if you're doing that, wouldn't that make all your doubt and skepticism wrong?
MrTrilliondollarman 4 weeks ago
Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good. And what does the lord require of you, But to do justice, to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God.
TheGoat1954 1 month ago
@TheGoat1954 You inadvertantly neglected to mention these important verses:
Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. Numbers 31:17-18
“Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.” (Jesus speaking) (Matthew 15:4)
Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death. (Exodus 31:15)
CynicalSkeptic1 4 weeks ago
@CynicalSkeptic1
If I had a dollar for every atheist who took bible verses out of context...:)
First and third are not teachings that made it into the NT. Since those are both from the Torah, I find your take very antisemitic. The second one is misquoted. Here's what it really says: Honour thy father and mother: And: He that shall curse father or mother, let him die the death. He's actually talking to the Pharisees and pointing out their ignorance.
MrTrilliondollarman 4 weeks ago
@MrTrilliondollarman Excuse me Sir, but I was a Christian for twenty years and my parents sent me to Christian schools since kindergarten. I am well aware of biblical content and I didn't take anything "out of context". Becoming more familiar with my Bible resulted in my apostasy. The god of the Old Testament is EXACTLY the same god as in the New Testament. Nothing has changed. Just because most Christians prefer to ignore or euphemistically interpret the Old Testament is immaterial.
CynicalSkeptic1 4 weeks ago
@CynicalSkeptic1
You most certainly did take all of them out of context. You didn't go to Christian schools..if you did, you would not have made such an amateur mistake. Becoming MUCH more versed in the Bible lead me AWAY from atheism. Because you can't get basic facts right, why the hell should anyone listen to you?
MrTrilliondollarman 4 weeks ago
@MrTrilliondollarman Excerpt: James McCarter of Divergence Incorporated states that the work of 2001 Nobel Prize winner Leland Hartwell which has substantial implications for combatting cancer relied heavily on the use of evolutionary knowledge and predictions. McCarter points out that 47 of the last 50 Nobel Prizes in medicine or physiology also depended on the use of EVOLUTIONARY theory.
Scientists don't win Nobel Prizes in medicine and physiology based on a non-existent theory.l
CynicalSkeptic1 4 weeks ago
@CynicalSkeptic1
But they do base it on genetic theory, which was created by a Catholic monk!!! So you have Christianity to thank for it.
MrTrilliondollarman 4 weeks ago
@MrTrilliondollarman Sir, I couldn't care less if you don't believe that I didn't go to Christian schools. Why don't you tell that to my parents...they had to pay for them. During one of the school assemblies while the pastor was preaching...my dad was in attendance when the pastor began telling the "evils of triple-beat rock music". My did IMMEDIATELY removed us from that school...unfortunately we were registered in another Christian school shortly afterward. My dad was a rock music fan.
CynicalSkeptic1 4 weeks ago
@CynicalSkeptic1
Too bad I don't give a crap about the story you just pulled out of your ass...
And also you learned nothing about Christianity or how to think...since you're obviously trying to gloss over the fact I stated about genetic theory.
MrTrilliondollarman 4 weeks ago
@MrTrilliondollarman Organisms can be grouped by sequence similarity via DNA sequence comparison and the resulting phylogenetic trees are consistent with taxonomy. Scientists had envisioned the paleontological tree of life long before it was CONFIRMED by DNA sequence analysis. Consequently, evolution is one of the most validated theories in all of science.
CynicalSkeptic1 4 weeks ago
@MrTrilliondollarman Here are some links about evolution if you are interested.
talkorigins(dot)org/faqs/comdesc/section1
anthro(dot)palomar(dot)edu/evolve/evolve_3
wikipedia(dot)org/wiki/Evidence_of_common_descent
evolution(dot)berkeley(dot)edu/evolibrary/search/topicbrowse2
txtwriter(dot)com/backgrounders/evolution/evcontents
wikipedia(dot)org/wiki/Level_of_support_for_evolution
You can ignore the information if you prefer....but that doesn't make it disappear.
CynicalSkeptic1 4 weeks ago
@CynicalSkeptic1
Again, takes nothing away from the fact Gregor Mandel (CATHOLIC MONK) is the father of genetics and saw no contradictions between his work and the Bible.
MrTrilliondollarman 4 weeks ago
@MrTrilliondollarman Article from Christplagiarized(dot)com: Scientists had to suffer torture, silencing, imprisonment and death at the hands of Christians who didn't agree with newly discovered facts about the world. Christianity lost the first battle with astronomers who realized that, contrary to what Christians asserted, the Sun did not orbit the Earth, and that the Universe doesn't seem to be designed specifically for humankind.
CynicalSkeptic1 4 weeks ago
@CynicalSkeptic1
Then that article is wrong. Christianity has NEVER been hostile to science and in fact the great Catholic universities of Europe were the first places dedicated to scientific discovery.
MrTrilliondollarman 4 weeks ago
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@MrTrilliondollarman "Then that article is wrong. Christianity has NEVER been hostile to science and in fact the great Catholic universities of Europe were the first places dedicated to scientific discovery."
Sir, you are in denial. Ever heard of Galileo? He was threatened with torture for claming that the earth was geocentric. Are you going to tell me that Galileo never existed and the history books are wrong?
CynicalSkeptic1 4 weeks ago
@MrTrilliondollarman Also, diseases aren't caused by sin...and leprosy cleansing doesn't result from the "sprinkling of bird's blood". (Leviticus)
Your arguments are truly pathetic. As I said before, science has continually contradicted the Bible and this is readily apparent...you just prefer to ignore the facts.
CynicalSkeptic1 4 weeks ago
@CynicalSkeptic1
Wrong again, idiot. No verse says that. Try to show it and I'll prove you wrong.
Your IQ is pathetic. You wouldn't have science without the Bible so don't me that crap.
MrTrilliondollarman 4 weeks ago
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@MrTrilliondollarman "Wrong again, idiot. No verse says that. Try to show it and I'll prove you wrong. Your IQ is pathetic. You wouldn't have science without the Bible so don't me that crap."
Sir, my IQ is 143 (Genius being 140+) and I was tested for MGM (Mentally Gifted Minds) twice when I was a child. Your insistence to insult me is very telling...I realize that is must be difficult to deal with FACTS and EVIDENCE which contradicts your ancient holy book.
CynicalSkeptic1 4 weeks ago
@MrTrilliondollarman Mark 2:1-12 Equates palsy and sin. Exodus 4:10-11 says how god fucks over people's health. Deuteronomy 7:12-15, obey god and you'll not get sick. Could go on to mention the curses/sickness god supposedly placed on Egyptians and others. Leviticus 14:7 for the cure of leprosy.
mistereveready 4 weeks ago
@mistereveready
Mark 2:1-12 says no such thing. Jesus healed the cripple to show how they can believe He forgives sins. Exodus verse actually shows God in helping Moses get over his speech impairment. Deuto says a lot more than that; you oversimplified. You could, but you would get that wrong too. That Lev talks about AFTER leprosy is cured, not an how to.
But keep failing, kid.
MrTrilliondollarman 4 weeks ago
@MrTrilliondollarman "You wouldn't have science without the Bible so don't me that crap."
If we didn't have the bible, which dragged western civilization down the drains, our civilization might well have been built by people like those who made the Antikythera mechanism. Those people were clearly of a scientific mindset and had capabilities comparable to post-dark ages Europe in some areas over a century before Jesus allegedly walked the earth.
Gnomefro 2 weeks ago
@Gnomefro
Dragged it down the drain? What drugs are you on? The Bible SAVED Western civilization. The mechanism looks interesting but your stand is pure speculation not based on anything other than specious reasoning so it is rejected.
MrTrilliondollarman 2 weeks ago
@MrTrilliondollarman Chances are we'd have colonized mars by now in that case. Of course, it would also have helped if the other branches of Abrahamic demonology didn't exist.
Gnomefro 2 weeks ago
@Gnomefro
You mean it is thanks to Abrahamic faith (Christianity especially) that we even went to space in the first place. Of course Mars will be achieved once atheism is thrown in the trash like all the other rubbish in the world.
MrTrilliondollarman 2 weeks ago
@MrTrilliondollarman That's nice. Will God build us a wooden ark to get there? Or the formulas to make the mission a success? Why doesn't God just move Mars closer so we can just take an airplane? Better yet, why not teleport us there? No spaceship? Why didn't God give inter-spacial travel to the Middle East way back? Or medicines or cures to cancer? Or even tell us about bacteria? Funny, God seems to only take credit for things once they're done and discovered. Kinda like He's not there...
TheOkami1113 2 weeks ago
@TheOkami1113
Why don't more people realize we wouldn't have science without God? It's almost like atheist intelligence doesn't really exist...
MrTrilliondollarman 2 weeks ago
@TheOkami1113
Or...it's almost as if human thought or imagination didn't exist in a vacuum...it's almost as if the source of both is beyond our own power, because saying we gave ourselves these abilities is just nonsense...much like you.
MrTrilliondollarman 2 weeks ago
@MrTrilliondollarman Like me? I guess that means you're wrong then, hunh? Apparently, you're saying that humans, through billions of years of evolving into a being that can talk to each other through electricity, aren't capable of being sapient all on their own. I wonder what you'll think of a lion chasing after you. You won't be thinking that God must be controlling him! Then again, giving equivocations like "power" or "thought" is such a classic creationist argument.
TheOkami1113 2 weeks ago
@TheOkami1113
No..It means I'm right and you don't know what you're talking about.
MrTrilliondollarman 2 weeks ago
@TheOkami1113
Actually, you don't seem to know what sapient means. Then again, atheists don't know much of anything, so there you are.
MrTrilliondollarman 2 weeks ago
@MrTrilliondollarman Funny how an atheist that doesn't know much used "sapience" in reference to our species classification: homo sapien. If you chose to insult a particular argument against you, rather than prove it wrong and provide evidence why you are right, then you--among billions--are just another automaton among ranks of zealots who can't provide anything other than a bad attitude to combat reason.
TheOkami1113 2 weeks ago
@TheOkami1113
Yet that's not the proper use of the word. Seems to me you're just another a-the-tard who can't stand being talked back to..well, too damn bad.
MrTrilliondollarman 2 weeks ago
@MrTrilliondollarman Okay, I'll bite. What IS the proper use of the word?
TheOkami1113 2 weeks ago
@TheOkami1113
"having great wisdom or sound judgment". It has nothing to do with being inventive.
MrTrilliondollarman 2 weeks ago
@MrTrilliondollarman Inventive: apt at inventing, devising, or contriving.
So. You just disproved yourself.
TheOkami1113 2 weeks ago
@TheOkami1113
Not even close. I prove you wrong. I said it had nothing to do with being inventive. Where in my definition does it use inventive?
MrTrilliondollarman 2 weeks ago
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@MrTrilliondollarman " It has nothing to do with being inventive."
Assuming you know the meaning 'inventive'- you already know what you meant--or not. God, apparently, is where sapience comes from.
TheOkami1113 2 weeks ago
@MrTrilliondollarman *did = dad
CynicalSkeptic1 4 weeks ago
@MrTrilliondollarman Also, Evolutional theory completely disproves the myth of Creation. No Creation = No original sin = No need for Yahweh/Jesus' malodorous cloud of self-sacrificing effluvium.
Science has continually and progressively contradicted the Bible as time goes by. Apparently the biblical god was scientifically illiterate.
CynicalSkeptic1 4 weeks ago
@CynicalSkeptic1
News flash: you wouldn't even have biology in general if it weren't for Christianity. Evolutionary theory disproves nothing in the Bible. I've heard your crap argument so many times, I know what you will say, how you will say it, and the counterarguments to anything you can come up with. Just try to fight me...I dare you.
MrTrilliondollarman 4 weeks ago
@MrTrilliondollarman This is just hilarious. If you have actually seen my arguments then you would realize they are based on FACTS AND EVIDENCE. Not a book which espouses men living in whale bellies for three days and women turning into salt. The Bible is filled with a veritable plethora of contradictions and inaccuracies which are exhibited with only a brief perusal.
You said "Just try to fight me...I dare you"
That is truly laughable. Ancient holy books < FACTS and EVIDENCE.
CynicalSkeptic1 4 weeks ago
@CynicalSkeptic1
Bullshit. I already showed you misquoted a whole verse. The Bible has no contradictions in it whatsoever and you clearly have never heard of the word parable.
The bible=Facts and evidence. It's just that simple. The only joke here is your obvious ignorance.
MrTrilliondollarman 4 weeks ago
@MrTrilliondollarman "I already showed you misquoted a whole verse."
Uh, no you didn't. Those biblical quotes are taken from one of the MANY different versions of the Bible. As I said before, ignoring them doesn't change anything.
You also said "The Bible has no contradictions in it whatsoever...
infidels(dot)org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions(dot)html
thethinkingatheist(dot)com/page/bible-contradictions
skepticsannotatedbible(dot)com/contra/by_name(dot)html
CynicalSkeptic1 4 weeks ago
@CynicalSkeptic1
Yes, I did. You left out the part about cursing father and mother. If ignoring them doesn't change anything, then why did you ignore it?
I've come across those cites and proved each one of them wrong.
MrTrilliondollarman 4 weeks ago
@MrTrilliondollarman In response to your insistence that I am ignoring the verse you allegedly say I misquoted:
This is from "Biblegateway(dot)com" which is a CHRISTIAN WEB SITE
Link: biblegateway(dot)com/passage/?search=Matthew+15%3A4&version=NIV
IT SAYS..and I quote "For God said, 'Honor your father and mother' and 'Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death'.
It is abundantly clear you have no idea what you are talking about...
CynicalSkeptic1 4 weeks ago
@CynicalSkeptic1
You still misquoted it. Jesus is talking to the Pharisees and how they got things wrong. YOU don't know what you're talking about. Try pulling your head out of your ass first.
MrTrilliondollarman 4 weeks ago
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@MrTrilliondollarman You said "You still misquoted it. Jesus is talking to the Pharisees and how they got things wrong. YOU don't know what you're talking about. Try pulling your head out of your ass first."
THIS IS ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE. You attempted to eliminate the distasteful part of the verse...I proved you were wrong and then you attempt to back-pedal. This is truly pathetic.
Your god said to KILL UNRULY CHILDREN. Period.
CynicalSkeptic1 4 weeks ago
"Live a good life.
If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by.
If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them.
If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones." ~ Marcus Aurelius
LucisFerre1 1 month ago
As a christian i think Michael's response was terrific! doesn't matter what your beliefs are. He looks at how u were as a person.
varone6t9 1 month ago
Everyone needs to go to "23 minutes in hell" as it is here on youtube by a bill weisse. Please watch it and follow your heart!
stephenabm 1 month ago
@stephenabm deluded much?
AcceptSolitude 1 month ago
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@stephenabm said [[Everyone needs to go to "23 minutes in hell" as it is here on youtube by a bill weisse. Please watch it and follow your heart!]]
My "heart" tells me that a 'god' who demands that I believe and worship him, upon the threat of eternal torture, is a Vlad Dracula type tyrant that I would never choose to "serve" under any circumstances. Such a "lord and master" would be an immature, sadistic beast.
LucisFerre1 1 month ago
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[Personal note: Ppl like stephenabm always make my faith in humanity take one hell of a nosedive, but I guess I'm used to it by now. Gotta say I like the moderates alot more, I may think they're a little gullible but they're mostly kind and empathetic people that actually CARE about right and wrong, have a concience and REJECT the notion of hell both as a reality and as a justifiable construct. Unlike the monster I just addressed...]
Seymour13 1 month ago
This atheist will have a rather rude awakening when he dies and is thrown into hell. If one does not believe in his creator, he accepts the opposite of God - lucifer! There is only one way to heaven and this through Jesus Christ!
stephenabm 1 month ago
@grozde Oh trust me you don't have to hope. Run your mouth all you want, you're young, stupid, arrogant, and self absorbed. The reality is I can explain to you the innermost secrets of the Bible but you will always think of it as the babble. I know more about physics than a dog like you could ever dream. In essence, keep it up chuckles, daddy will spank your ass when it's time.
budoghost1 1 month ago
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@stephenabm
"This atheist will have a rather rude awakening when he dies and is thrown into hell~ There is only one way to heaven and this through Jesus Christ!"
You'd have to be really 'off' in the head in order to condone the eternal torture of good ppl just because they don't believe the unbelievable.
If you can truly accept hell, the immoral standard of judgement which you believe god enforces and promote the worship of said deity then you are a deranged excuse for a human being.
(cont.)
Seymour13 1 month ago
@stephenabm
(cont.)
For the record; no sane person (or 'god') would judge someone unworthy due to a lack of faith when it's clear that he/she is a good person.
"If one does not believe in his creator, he accepts the opposite of God - lucifer!"
Ugh...
Guess what, we don't believe in your 'lucifer' either and as such we don't accept him.
Only someone devoid of empathy, morality and concience would accept something so utterly vile and dehumanizing.
(cont.)
Seymour13 1 month ago
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@stephenabm
(cont.)
You make all of existence out to be one sick joke for some narcissistic deity's desire for 'forced worship' (see the mafia-boss analogy).
Some food for thought concerning hell:
watch?v=qDpZxpBSfcc, watch?v=Puyykf3FwmU, watch?v=0vYKZe_Svno, watch?v=RdINL3CC7n4.
watch?v=uHWPq8BZauE, watch?v=p0_7vKFAx6Q, watch?v=YDESnQ8VsOQ, watch?v=bjamLaTuQWQ.
watch?v=aIqWMn-8nGY & watch?v=9Rb-vsdrfUQ.
watch?v=cpbwN_4pYnA & watch?v=7A1SxKEronw & watch?v=VmLB8JkisG4.
(cont.)
Seymour13 1 month ago
@stephenabm
(cont.)
A word of advice; take your meds.
Either that or meds are the problem, never sure which it is with ppl like you.
Seymour13 1 month ago
@Seymour13 Repent and accept Jesus Christ as your lord and savior, if you do not want to then watch this short video on you tube - 23 minutes in hell by someone who died for 23 minutes and was shown hell and experienced before coming back alive. If one does not accept God, he rejects him and will receive just punishment. Do not follow the atheist lie.
stephenabm 1 month ago
@stephenabm
"he rejects him and will receive JUST punishment"
A JUST punishment?!, you've got some fucking nerve boy.
A system of redemption based on faith (and a lack there-of damning you for all eternity) is immoral, as are ALL people who put blind faith before character.
But no, your line of thought is *cough* obviously *cough* the right one: 'All non-believers DESERVE to burn forever'.
(cont.)
Seymour13 1 month ago
@stephenabm
(cont.)
On your channel you claim to support freedom, but what you actually support is a never ending celestial dictatorship.
A dictatorship that enforces an immoral standard and is IMPOSSIBLE to overthrow (with the dictator being omniscient, omnipotent and eternal).
Your half-assed apologetics won't fly with me, if you are even remotely human then you know as well as I do that the system you propose is indeed immoral.
(cont.)
Seymour13 1 month ago
@stephenabm
(cont.)
If this basic sense of right and wrong is not internal in you then I can only conclude that you are just... broken.
I've told you this before and I'll gladly point it out again; you are deranged, utterly sick, an immoral piece of garbage even.
"23 minutes in hell"
I know that vid; and that you would posit it as any kind of argument tells me all I need to know about you.
(cont.)
Seymour13 1 month ago
@stephenabm
(cont.)
That prison analogy was beyond fucked up (and it just goes downhill from there).
Last time I checked the punishment in prison sure as fuck isn't ETERNAL (unlike the doctrine of hell; eternal punishment for finite crimes and even non-crimes).
And then the bit about the 'house' analogy; fact is that the world is more than big enough and has more than enough places where you can live.
(cont.)
Seymour13 1 month ago
@stephenabm
(cont.)
While in the afterlife it's supposedly either heaven or hell with NOTHING in between, so if you don't believe then you're sent to hell by DEFAULT (and according to you ppl like me deserve it as you called it a 'just' punishment, fuck you, seriously.).
This shit has mafia boss analogy written all over it, I can't even last 15 minutes into the vid without getting physically sick at the sight of those deranged lunatics.
(cont.)
Seymour13 1 month ago
@stephenabm
(cont.)
Congratz, ppl like you have sacrificed both your humanity and your morality in deference to your religion.
Example; the husband says he is being pulled into hell BY GOD and the wife feels a peace inside of her because it's 'just' god TORTURING her husband.
Instead of being horrified as any moral person would be at the thought of 'god' torturing their spouse.
(cont.)
Seymour13 1 month ago
@stephenabm
(cont.)
Now, back to the main topic; I would rather suffer for all eternity than endorse the endless torture of innocents based on non-belief, and as such I would never bend my knee to the vile 'demon' you propose as your deity.
One of the many reasons being that I care for my species and know that most people are generally good people undeserving of the fate you would gladly wish upon them (and me).
(cont.)
Seymour13 1 month ago
@Seymour13 Mr. Bill Weisse the author and one who died for 23 minutes and experienced hell (his soul left his body). His writings and speaking engagements was a dire warning to all. You can believe or follow the lie given by atheists, your choice. The bible is very clear on what he experienced. Repent and follow the true path to heaven. God loves you!
stephenabm 1 month ago
@stephenabm
"Repent and follow the true path to heaven. God loves you!"
You truly are beyond help and beyond hope...
Seymour13 1 month ago
@stephenabm said [[His writings and speaking engagements was a dire warning to all.]]
Anyone who would call fear mongering a type of love is essentially insane. Insanity is not a clinical term, it's a legal term, and it means to be confused about right and wrong. If you don't know that threats of eternal torture is not an act of love, then you sound insane.
LucisFerre1 1 month ago
@stephenabm Sir, I watched the entire 47 minutes and 23 seconds of that video (it seemed so much longer) only because a devout believer said I couldn't scrutinize the allegation of being in hell for 23 minutes unless I watched the video. The man is incredibly delusional and there is ABSOLUTELY ZERO PROOF that he actually went to hell. (how surprising)
To be honest, evolutional theory completely disproves the Creation myth and consequently the biblical god doesn't appear to exist. Period.
CynicalSkeptic1 1 month ago
@CynicalSkeptic1 You are an atheist, so you have made your decision to rebel against your creator and there is not much I can say to you. I will only state that many people have died for a few minutes to 45 minutes and have either travelled to heaven and saw Jesus or sent to hell, once returning to their body - they either come back very happy or terrified after experiencing hell. Most of the people who have this experience, make major changes in their life for the better!
stephenabm 1 month ago
@CynicalSkeptic1 His story is not the only one out there, many people who have died and came back tell of the same experience. When returning, they decide to change their life in a more positive way and work to make a positive difference in others lives. I have known others who were quite wealthy with good businesses and sold their business and focused on a less wealthy lifestyle to help their fellow man, as this is what they were advised when in heaven.
stephenabm 1 month ago
@stephenabm Sir, the biblical god doesn't appear to exist. Which version of heaven is allegedly seen by a religious believer is completely dependent on which religion they follow. Hindus and Muslims see a completely different version when they supposedly go to heaven for a "short time".
Also, the Bible isn't just inaccurate in relation to Creation...diseases also aren't caused by sin, the earth isn't geocentric, and leprosy cleansing doesn't result from the "sprinkling of bird's blood".
CynicalSkeptic1 1 month ago
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@stephenabm Article from Christplagiarized(dot)com: Scientists had to suffer torture, silencing, imprisonment and death at the hands of Christians who didn't agree with newly discovered facts about the world. Christianity lost the first battle with astronomers who realized that, contrary to what Christians asserted, the Sun did not orbit the Earth, and that the Universe doesn't seem to be designed specifically for humankind.
CynicalSkeptic1 1 month ago
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@stephenabm
(cont.)
Now, if I were you I'd really get to watching these vids, you might actually wake the fuck up from your delusion (wishful thinking, I know):
watch?v=qDpZxpBSfcc, watch?v=Puyykf3FwmU, watch?v=0vYKZe_Svno, watch?v=RdINL3CC7n4.
watch?v=uHWPq8BZauE, watch?v=p0_7vKFAx6Q, watch?v=YDESnQ8VsOQ, watch?v=bjamLaTuQWQ.
watch?v=aIqWMn-8nGY & watch?v=9Rb-vsdrfUQ.
watch?v=cpbwN_4pYnA & watch?v=7A1SxKEronw & watch?v=VmLB8JkisG4.
If short on time just watch the 1st 3 and last 5.
Seymour13 1 month ago
@stephenabm said [[ If one does not accept God, he rejects him and will receive just punishment. ]]
.
Christianity is the theory that exploiting the torture & crucifixion of an innocent person, who didn't deserve to die for sin-crimes he didn't commit, so that people who don't deserve it can go to paradise, is the ultimate form of goodness, and people who don't subscribe to this unjust exploitation deserve to be tortured in hell.
.
Of course, this is unjust, unfair and completely immoral.
LucisFerre1 1 month ago
So true. What difference does it make if any of the 4600+ gods care what real humans believe. ;O)
Katalyzt
Katalyzt 1 month ago
I'm a fan of that guy now.
rasmusacdk 1 month ago
I love christians who ask me 'what if you're wrong?' with their glazed smug eyes. It's not up to me to prove that something doesn't exist. It's up to them to prove to me something exists. And since they can't, the most logical conclusion is that there isn't a God. There's not one test you can perform that remotely points to a God existing.
ponchred 1 month ago
Let’s work to eradicate all religion. Conversely, begin a relationship with Jesus Christ today. You need to repent. Yes, you. Moreover, you should ask God for eternal forgiveness through applying the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ to your life of sin within the quietness of your bedroom tonight. As an unrepentant sinner myself, I made this decision around 15 years ago. This is the most important decision that you could ever make. - Romans 10:9-10
paularenas26 1 month ago
@paularenas26 Why? This is the second time I've seen you post this and it's all nonsense. You're asking people to waste time repenting to nothing. How do you even know that the person reading this lives a life of sin? What if their only sin is not believing in an impossible God?
ponchred 1 month ago
"Id rather be judged on how I treated other people."
Oh don't worry, you will be. You will be judged. We all will.
l33tpwnzord 1 month ago
"What difference does it make whether you believe or not, isn't it more important how you treat other people?"
An outworking of a white, western, post-enlightenment philosophy. A philosophy which is completely and utterly unprovable.
l33tpwnzord 1 month ago
"You made the evidence rather questionable."
I don't think God is biting his fingernails worrying that you believe in Him. He gave you evidence. If you are truly interested in *truth* you would have pursued that evidence. But you haven't You've covered up the evidence. You've run from it.
l33tpwnzord 1 month ago
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@7micho7 Many might just be tired of being around so much cussing all the time. A lot of Christians might also get bored with all the hate. There are many reasons why atheism is much more popular to convert to than any of those dusty religions.
Atheism is a normal part of human evolution. Those still stuck in the stone age with their beliefs are just taking a little longer.
Now we know why those Europeans beat us in education and general tranquility. They dropped religion and presto!
vinyl45s4ever 1 month ago
He's the only one that can be right or wrong because he accepts the responsibility of basing his assertions or theories on observation, or knowledge of, the facts of reality. A person of 'faith' is merely a subjectivist who drops all intellectual pursuits and claims that whatever they believe must be true, because they believe it.
Ataensic 1 month ago
"What difference does it make whether I believe or not?, isn't it more important how you comport yourself in life and how you treat other people?"
Granny: *shakes head in disapproval*.
That right there tells me everything I need to know, that granny is immoral.
A system of redemption based on faith (and a lack of faith damning you for all eternity) is immoral, as are all people who put blind faith before character.
Seymour13 1 month ago 24
@Seymour13
Your system of "morality" is white, western, post-enlightenment, subjective and completely unprovable.
Oops.
l33tpwnzord 1 month ago
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@l33tpwnzord
Riiiight, the idea that being a good person is more important than whether or not you believe the unbelievable is obviously an 'outworking of a white, western, post-enlightenment philosophy. A philosophy which is completely and utterly unprovable'.
"You will be judged. We all will"
Now for the $100 question, do you agree (or do you disagree) with the following statement:
The only moral standard of judgement is one where ppl are judged based on whether or not they are good people.
Seymour13 1 month ago
@Seymour13 I know what you mean. I try to argue christians that this doctrine of theirs is immoral but they keep 'ping-ponging' between, 'we're saved by grace alone' and 'You need to follow the ten commandments.'
Well, which is it!? It frustrates me how immoral it is, yet they still claim the moral highground.
A question for granny would be, 'would a believing child killer go to heaven?' The christian answer, 'No, because a TRUE christian wouldn't act that way!' Uggh, so frustrating!
StickInMudd 1 month ago
The guy who cures cancer. Say he's an atheist. Will he go to hell? Do you even want to ponder the idea? I sure as hell fucking don't. So i choose to live the way a peaceful and sane person would. Not wishing harm upon a human being, and helping them when i can.
MMusashi420 1 month ago 5
Well according to the bible God did become human, Maybe that's where his human traits started, But then again he was extremely jealous in the old testament before Jesus ever came, Interesting debate :)
blackheartsbirth 1 month ago
First of all, they already failed on who to get to answer this atheist's questions. I wouldn't be asking a Catholic priest about the subject, but I guess everybody has a right. A right to be wrong that is.
deadpool1221 1 month ago
He did tell us and if you read the Bible with an open mind you might have a different opinion. A good book for you to read is "In sixth Days" a book with essays from over 150 scientist from all fields from philosophy to genetics who believe and tell you why. Another book is William Murray (son of Madlyn Murry Ohair) book "my life without God" where he sets out to disprove the Bible and became a Christian. God loves you and so do I.
majboyd 1 month ago
The woman presented Pascal's Wager and shook her head at the notion of behavior holding greater importance than conformity of perspective. The priest accused the atheist of "jumping around" a question that wasn't asked. Quite a sorry display.
urcorrect 1 month ago
@tylerdurden666able they are monkeys... its a valid classification. The only way to change that would be to remove all primate tissue. Since most humans won't replace every cell in their bodies all humans can be called monkeys ;p
PinkProgram 1 month ago
@tylerdurden666able I want humans to upgrade and advance. What are you doing here?
PinkProgram 1 month ago
God exist but doesn't give a fuck.
Bearlizard777 1 month ago
The way this priest believes in Allah is the way I believe all religions.
setmedic 1 month ago
0.50 Michael Shermer is full of it. Sorry, but you cant stand before God and claim I have never lied, I never stole or spoke an unkind word to anyone.
mroizo25 1 month ago
So good of that fag priest to leave off sucking dick for a little while to attend this broadcast.
fdasherv 1 month ago
if the biblical god was or is real he would be like the gods of the greeks & egyptians, but all in one, sounds psychotic in action and schizophrenic in it's rationale
robertwlester 1 month ago 11
"What if you're wrong?"
this is like if i ask "have you dug a moat around your house in case vikings attack?"
visno 1 month ago
Morality is objective..and the standard of what is moral and what isn't is man's life.
Riellysdad 1 month ago
I love how, before he is even finished speaking, the lady just condescendingly smiles and tilts and shakes her head. That gesture is one of the biggest things that is wrong with most religion - the refusal to so much as respect another viewpoint, let alone consider it or accept it.
SolipsismSyndrome 2 months ago 4
She may as well have interrupted him to say, "Look, that's very cute, but you're still going to hell for your carefully thought-out and considered opinion." Why let him finish talking if you're not going to listen to what he has to say? Hell, why let him start?
SolipsismSyndrome 2 months ago
@SolipsismSyndrome I think you need to extend the same courtesy to her. Why do you, without even letting her speak for herself, put these words into her mouth? It sounds like you're doing exactly what you're acusing her of.
muel0341 2 months ago
@muel0341 I didn't see her trying to speak for herself, or else I would have sat quietly and listened to it. Instead, all I saw was a person ask an atheist "What if you're wrong?" and then, throughout his response, demonstrate via clear body language that she wasn't interested in it. I'm by no means accusing her of putting words in anyone's mouth, so accusing me of putting words in her mouth and then telling me I'm doing exactly what I'm accusing her of is a little nonsensical.
SolipsismSyndrome 2 months ago
@SolipsismSyndrome It doesn't sounds at all nonsensical to me. Your accusation is that she is thinking he is going to hell, that shes (and by extension you apply this to religion and religious people in general) "refusing to so much as respect another viewpoint, let alone consider it or accept it." - and it seems pretty clear to me that you are placing this judgement on her without even letter her speak for herself - isn't that just a bit hypocritical?
muel0341 2 months ago
@muel0341 Honestly? She'd be a hypocrite if she didn't think he was going to hell. That isn't an "accusation", it's a fact, and I don't fault her for thinking that he's going to hell, whether I agree or not. All I'm saying is, when people explain opinions with which I disagree, especially when I asked them for those opinions in the first place, I don't smile and shake my head. It's disrespectful and arrogant.
SolipsismSyndrome 2 months ago
And yes, I am in fact saying that religious people in general refuse to respect and consider others' viewpoints. I acknowledge that that's a hurtful stereotype, but I'm one of those evil people who think stereotypes exist for a reason. This one isn't universally true, but there are far too many people that fit into it.
SolipsismSyndrome 2 months ago
@SolipsismSyndrome the problem is that you're jumping to the conclusion that she is thinkin he is going to hell. That's pretty damn presumptuous if you ask me. I am a Roman Catholic. And according to my religion, there is no reason to think that all atheists go to hell. I don;t think it's arrogant at all, in fact I think it's probably the most respectful thing she could have done. Would you prefer if she started screaming "You're going to hell!"?
muel0341 2 months ago
@muel0341 According to your interpretation of your religion, perhaps. The most respectful thing she could have done would have been to listen without nonverbally replying via such condescending body language. Actually, the most respectful thing she could have done would have been to not ask such a stale and frankly leading question.
SolipsismSyndrome 2 months ago
I know it's certainly not the first time I've heard an atheist (or anyone) asked "What if your opinion is wrong?" At this point, asking it again is just a marginally subtler way of saying "I believe you're wrong, and you already know that I believe you're wrong, but I want you to express your opinion so I have something to mock."
SolipsismSyndrome 2 months ago
@SolipsismSyndrome I just don't see it as condescending at all. When you disagree with someone, I think it's a lot more dishonest to pretend like you don't disagree. She is respecfully expressing that she hears what he is saying, but nontheless, disagrees with him. How is that condescending. I think you are letting your atheism cloud your judgement. If this were a different topic, I don't think you would be saying the same thing.
muel0341 2 months ago
Religion and religious people are closed minded by nature. They *have* to believe what they are told, or they do not get to be a part of that group. It's been that way since the caveman days.
...but you don't have to be closed minded to believe in a God... There are thousands, if not millions, of people who believe in God, but not organized religion...I am one of them, as was Ben Franklin, Albert Einstein, Thomas Jefferson and many of the world's most famous thinkers.
stonedkisses 2 months ago
I also think that science is our best tool for answering the questions we have about the world, nature and the universe....but I don't think one precludes the other. Science works with repeatable, observable evidence... A belief in God is about faith... They are two separate fields of thought, and yet they *can* co-exist. Where we have problems is where groups of *men* write a book and start using it to control others, saying "God talked to me and this is his law."
stonedkisses 2 months ago
@stonedkisses It is always very easy to look at the other as closed-minded. But to a religious person, you sound very closed to the idea that God could infact have communicated His will to people and through people. It's too easy to just call other people "closed minded by nature", without really demonstrating anything. There are many religious people who did great things too - Mother Theresa, Desmond TuTu, Martin Luther King, Thomas Aquinas, Francis Collins, JRR Tolkien,...
muel0341 2 months ago
Don't miss the point. Atheists are definitely not wrong. Creationists are barking mad and proud to remain stupid, like a juror who goes into the jury room with 11 others and spews out his belief that the man is guilty, and the others vote not guilty. There is the Christian dilemma.
doncourtreporter 2 months ago 10
Shermer is so Honest with himself on the other hand the priest is suspect .... because god has to be concerned with mortal praise so as to have a job for the priest to do . It seems clear that if there was a God that that exist that did not concern its self with being believed .... The priest would have to find a honest living . And not a job as a mediator to a all knowing deity . Believe so i can do gods work . Does a all know diety need to employ people to inform other people ? No !!!!
Me1now 2 months ago
The implied threat of asking "what if you're wrong" is not a compelling argument for determining the truth of a belief.
HyperSchmizzle 2 months ago
Is it just me or is that lady shaking her head at Michael's response the most terrifying thing on youtube...
KaguyaQuincy 2 months ago
why do christians always want to fight about there beliefs. Its like they are sating you believe me or lets fight
coldtoke 2 months ago
00:56 old lady thinking: "no,it is not more important" ,well,i¨m guessing,i could be wrong (and i don´t give a thing)
corporacionmonstruo 2 months ago
What is the point of a God that doesn't care a wit about his creation? An omnipotent God should care infinitely about his creation. Shermer's logic is backwards.
caveatemp 2 months ago
"Without God, all things are lawful" - Dostoyevsky
Shermers reponse doesn't make any sense. HoIf you don't believe in God, you can do basically anything and rationalize your way into believing that you are "doing't the right thing".
What is the right thing to do? This is exactly the question that Theism answers!
Shermer, as an atheist, has to deal with the fact that on his worldview - the kind of morality he is invoking in this video - is nothing more than a personal opinion.
muel0341 2 months ago
@muel0341
And if you DO believe in a "god", you can justify doing any immorality in the name of that "god", whether it's burning or stoning people to death, or slavery, or even flying airplanes into buildings; if you can get someone to believe an absurdity like "an invisible magic man in the sky told me that he wants you to do X", then you can get them to do ANYTHING.
StaceyC123 2 months ago
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@muel0341
And if you DO believe in a "god", you can justify doing any immorality in the name of that "god", whether it's burning or stoning people to death, or slavery, or even flying airplanes into buildings; if you can get someone to believe an absurdity like "an invisible magic man in the sky told me that he wants you to do X", then you can get them to do ANYTHING.
StaceyC123 2 months ago
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@muel0341
And if you DO believe in a "god", you can justify doing any immorality in the name of that "god", whether it's burning or stoning people to death, or slavery, or even flying airplanes into buildings; if you can get someone to believe an absurdity like "an invisible magic man in the sky told me that he wants you to do X", then you can get them to do ANYTHING.
StaceyC123 2 months ago
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@muel0341
And if you DO believe in a "god", you can justify doing any immorality in the name of that "god", whether it's burning or stoning people to death, or slavery, or even flying airplanes into buildings; if you can get someone to believe an absurdity like "an invisible magic man in the sky told me that he wants you to do X", then you can get them to do ANYTHING.
StaceyC123 2 months ago
Well said Mr. Shermer.
ukmoore 2 months ago
Let's see ~10 million gods, what if i'm wrong in not believing in one of those 10 million gods?
Hmmm... i would say that we're in the same boat.
What if you're wrong about the 9,999,999 million gods thats left?
baldurus1 2 months ago
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Jesus was suicidal. Suicidal charaters are incredible. Luke 24:7 Matt 16:21 etc.
Period0fTime 2 months ago
It will always come down to faith because you do not know and you will not untill you ask God to reveal himself to you. But most peolpe think that is beneath them. I just say that if you don't like what's going on in your life and you want something better try Jesus. If it doesn't work out the devil will always take you back. If things are going good then I guess its just a fork in the road. But the only way to know is to try.
boon197999 2 months ago
I think the answer to this question is in the first book of the Bible and could be answere probably in the first chaper. He created Adam for a relationship. Before there was just his creation. He made Adam to feel, think, and so on. But, Adam failed which caused a distance that is still the issue today. But today you can solve the problem by believing and accepting Jesus. If you do that, then you will see what you are really looking for, and you will know that you've found it.
boon197999 2 months ago
If there IS a GOD then its his/its wish that you are either a believe in him...or not. If God exists then you are an atheist BECAUSE God wants you to be one....until he/it wishes you to be a believer in him/it. If God knows and controls all things then this must be true.....no?
Riellysdad 2 months ago
@Riellysdad Nobody said God controlled all things. Where are you getting this stuff?
HamNCheezeNLuv 2 months ago
@HamNCheezeNLuv ...he would be a pretty shit second rate God if he wasn't in control of everything don't you think? He's GOD...its his job to be running everything in the existence he supposedly created.
Riellysdad 2 months ago
Why would God care? Well, IF God exists (the kind of God that religious people believe in) THEN it makes perfect sense that God would care. We are not imposing our emotions on God, but rather it is BECAUSE GOD HAS THESE QUALITIES, the we have these qualities. We can only have reason, because God had reason first. Without a foundation there is no basis for caring. God is that foundation.
muel0341 2 months ago
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laprofessorapai 3 months ago
@laprofessorapai That's not how Pascal phrased the argument. These kinds of objections don't touch Pascals original argument which basically makes the point that you have nothing to lose and everything to gain. It's a pragmatic argument, not an epistemological argument. If you could play the lottery for free, you probably wouldn't object "well which lottery should I play?" no that completely misses the point.
muel0341 2 months ago
@muel0341 ....But if God exists and is everything its cracked up to be he will know that you are faking it .....that you have crossed your fingers behind your back. And if you are a death bed convert out of fear of possible nasty consequences in a supposed afterlife then how is that just towards the near life long believer who has put in the miles over time and devotion?
Riellysdad 2 months ago
@laprofessorapai But that's not Pascals argument. Pascal is arguing that if you could play the lottery for free, you have everything to win and nothing to lose so why not believe? Just by objecting "well which lottery?" that doesn't even touch Pascals argument which is pragmatic and NOT Epistemic or Ontic.
muel0341 2 months ago
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Evidence of the existence of God
watch?v=Vl12NtmqMYQ
watch?v=0xXgsndwxD4&feature=channel_video_title
watch?v=4wV0vV5Hrp0&feature=related
watch?v=BXiNXDDdaK8&feature=related
watch?v=azAOtB65Td0&feature=related
watch?v=RjKGlNVmnqc&feature=related
ThePero20111 3 months ago
Hehehe, I'm going to be a clever christian and ask "what if your wrong!"
Stupid bitch.
mecher3k 3 months ago