Who cares between Tony and Ray. The Tony Martin ERA is a discrace to the name Black Sabbath. Sorry for all you Tony Martin fans. I like Tony's voice but those albums were pretty sorry, Ray was a monster vocalist and in my opinion (and thats what it is an opinion) is better than Tony. Tony can sing but Ray blew the roof off. Tony Iommi should have stopped with the Black Sabbath name after Ian Gillian. Kind of embarrassed of the Tony Martin ERA, pretty cheesy stuff with lame keys and lyrics.
Who cares between Tony and Ray. The Tony Martin ERA is a discrace to the name Black Sabbath. Sorry for all you Tony Martin fans. I like Tony's voice but those albums were pretty sorry, Ray was a monster vocalist and in my opinion (and thats what it is an opinion) is better than Tony. Tony can sing but Ray blew the roof off. Tony Iommi should have stopped with the Black Sabbath name after Ian Gillian. Kind of embarrassed of the Tony Martin ERA, pretty cheesy stuff with lame keys and lyrics.
I feel like laughing at all the comments here............even taking the name of Tony Martin in the same sentence with Ray Gillen is an insult to the memory of great Ray.
Ray was a genius, anyone with even a minimal understanding of what constitutes a great voice would know that Ray Gillen was 100000 better than stupid Tony
@MrFoliumofdescartes Kind of pointless and idiotic of you to compare at all but Tony Martin is "the shining" vocalist of Sabbath , Ray Gillen is shining not so much
@altjff15 No, a guy called David Donato who sang for Sabbath in 1984 after Ian Gillan left. That inception of this song was called 'No Way ouT' it might still be posted on here somehwere. BTW Donato is a great vocalist!!
I have to say this song is just awesome. Both Tony Martin and Ray Gillen did very well on this. i know people will get me for this but i still think Tony Martin was a better choice for the next albums. Don´t get me wrong, Ray was an awesome singer. But i personally prefer Martin doing these songs
The original Ray Gillen version of "The Eternal Idol" has been traded in bootleg circles for ages now.
The additional tracks on "The Eternal Idol" expanded reissue include "Some Kind Of Woman" and "Black Moon" (demo) on Disc 1. Disc 2 will comprise the entire Ray Gillen version of "The Eternal Idol" album!
@EarthsEternal Tony Martin...a fantastic singer, no doubt about it. But I think Ray was better, and Ray's voice suited the 'Eternal Idol' album more I think. I prefer listen to 'The Complete Ray Gillen Years' than the actual album actually.
the most underated sabbath album, period! I have not listened to this in twenty years and it is awesome. Just proves that Tony Iommi had crazy talent. This a cool sabbath era. Maybe a bit glam long hair, but who gives a fuck?
genial voz, su salida de sabbath como parte de otras las tantas historias de entras y salidas de su personal, sin embargo es de notar la tremenda fuerza vocal demasiado genail y perfecta ...RIP Ray....
I love both vocalists but the real interesting part is that all the melody lines are pretty much exactly as with Martin - meaning they were written by Gillen. That's what he always claimed never to have been credited for and this proves him right. If you want more proof - listen to Donato's version (No Way Out) which did not have the same melody. It doesn't take anything away from Martin as Iommi probably instructed him to dub Gillen's vocals.
Anyway, thanks for sharing - wherever you got them!
Ray recorded the entire Eternal Idol album but then left for Badlands, when Sab brought in Tony Martin he had to sing Ray's parts EXACTLY like Ray, the enunciations..everything..this I believe is Ray.
@uu9999uu Wrong! Ray recorded the whole 'Eternal Idol' album, but left as he felt the band wasn't going anywhere, before the album was released, so they got Tony Martin in, who rerecorded the vocals and then the album was released. Only track that Ray isn't singing on is 'Scarlet PImpernel', which is an instrumental feauturing some lovely guitarwork fron Iommo, and Bev Bevan is playing cymbals/percussion or something. I agree, he had a fantastic voice. A friend of mine saw them at Hammersmith.
Yeah, Ryan, it definitely wasn't a good mix of styles with Ian. The cool thing is that he admits it! On one of my Sabbath retrospective videos, Ian laughs and says, "I was probably the worst vocalist Sabbath ever had!" While I wouldn't quite agree with that, it is true that it was a bit of a weird combination. Although the upshot of it all is that I love most of the songs on Born Again! I love Trashed, Zero The Hero and its long intro, Disturbing The Priest, Digital Bitch and Keep It Warm!
Yeah, NB, I definitely agree with that. And I did like the progressive metal the Black Sabbath did with Tony Martin. It still had the dark element in there, just a bit more subtlely. Well, it's 23 years later (unbelievably enough), and I still count The Shining as one of my favorite Sab songs. Great opening theme, great groove, tasty lyrics and vocals, and very catchy. Always one of those songs that stay in my mind for hours after hearing it!
100% agree. I think you hit the nail right on the head. I thought that about Tony's voice the first time I heard this song on the "Metal Shop" radio program back in 1987. :)
(Man, how time flies! lol)
Honestly, I love Gillen's vocals on this song but I agree that Tony "The Cat" Martin did the better version. Whatever side one may fall on this argument, I think we can all agree that IAN GILLAN could not have sung this. Even as classic a Metal vocalist as he was...
Gillan is missed as he was a great singer. He did sabbath stuff very well live. Sabbath made great albums post ozzy & dio - Eternal Idol, Headless Cross, TYR. I hated Cross Purposes & Forbidden. Iommi rocks with Hughes in fuse which is better than 7th star or dep sessions. Iommi & Lifeson my fav guitarists of all time
See, I thought Cross Purposes was a great album - very progressive metal with great clean vocals from Tony Martin, and it represented a nice smooth (and relatively quick) comeback for the band following the 2nd round of Dio-drama that followed the great (but ultimately fated) Mark III comeback of Dehumanizer.
However, I totally agree about Forbidden. They owed Reprise records 1 more album on their contract, and it shows. Tried bringing back the classic Sabbath sound with Martin, didn't work.
@blacksabfan ..damn right...eterenal was re-recorded...gillen had diddly squat to do with headless cross, that was iommi/powell/martin w/bass from lawrence cottle
Negative...Martin was a full fledged member by the time "Headless Cross" was recorded. It was on this album, 'Eternal Idol,' that Gillen's vocals were used as a prototype for Martin to follow after Ray left.
@taff622 Wrong that was "The Eternal Idol".Ray had a dissagrement with Tony and quit to join John Sykes Blue Murder.That was when Tony just erased his vocals and Tony Martin redo all the songs.Even Eric Singer hates Iommi.He told me during the Paul Stanley solo tour(We hung out in the Berkley Carter in lovely Asbury Park N.J),Iommi was real big dick that owed him money.
how do you find this song on limewire? i put black sabbath the shining but that song doesn't come up but others do? can someone answer my question please tyvm
While I like Tony Martin's voice very much, Ray Gillen had enormous natural charisma and presence- after some seasoning and with the proper opportunity he could have been a major star. If he hadn't flaked out on Sabbath, he could have been exactly what they needed to make a total comeback in credibility and popularity in the late 80s. Imagine an alternate history where we got a dream lineup- Iommi/Gillen/Butler/Powell/Nicholls. This lineup would've had a major chance of breaking Stateside.
I just don't understand how people actually believe that Tony Martin is a better vocalist than Ray Gillen....
Tony Martin is a schooled and trained vocalist who does not have much natural talent or flair....
Ray Gillen has raw talent that simply blows Tony Martin away..i have no doubt that the most talented singer in Black Sabbath(sheer talent) was Ray Gillen......
The only two guys who could have outsung Gillen on this song are Robert Plant and David Coverdale...
Martin's version blows this away; his phrasing is more theatrical and dramatic. Martin may have sounded like ONE other singer- Dio- but he was nonetheless a vocalist with first-class chops. Gillen had talent but didn't sound that different from a million other guys out there with similar ranges and phrasing.
all sabbath singers are awesome...except hughes who is a funk singer..he didn't fit with sabbath...also i would like to hear Coverdale with Sabbath..i had read that iommi wanted him once time after ozzy departure at 1977 and after Dio's at 1982
I disagree. Glenn Hughes, while traditionally a funk singer (see Trapeze), was so maleable and talented a singer (remember his high-pitched vocals on the epic "Burn?") that he really WAS able to fit his voice in with the band! Although keep in mind that "Seventh Star" wasn't really the Sabbath sound - it was originally meant as an Iommi solo album - that is, till the record co. stepped in and forced a compromise with Iommi to market this as Black Sabbath FEATURING TONY IOMMI! :P
All these mistakes were caused by that f***ing bitch Sharon Osbourne, she and her father Don Arden wanted to screw with Black Sabbath in every way. Ian Gillan actually wrote "Digital Bitch" about her.
Interesting. I never thought about it in that way. Although the song's lyrics say, "Her big fat daddy was a money machine
He made a fortune from computers" while Don Arden was a record company executive (Jet Records, I believe). But maybe it's allegorical. I read the rest of the lyrics and I guess it could fit.
Unfortunately Tony got the short end of the stick.I've read some interviews and it seems like he was trying to make everybody happy and all the while getting screwed by the Sabbath management -drama machine.He played the nice guy card and got the shaft.Ray I guess just sang as himself,and the results are here.
Ray was a student of the art.His range was second to none at that time.Tony Martin was a Dio clone,PERIOD.He had a good voice but he did'nt go for his own sound.Ray could sing raunchy and clear.Live he sounded as goos as the record and at times better.This guy was going places and he proved that there was life after Black Sabbath.Look at what he did with Badlands.
I agree there. He was great with Badlands. "Dreams In The Dark" nearly broke that band wide open! Still one of the greatest 80's Metal songs, it was a Metal/Pop crossover!
Phenomenal voice and makes that Tony Martin look like a joker.........by the time Tony Martin joined Black Sabbath, the whole concept had degenerated to a joke.......
I'm sorry, but Tony Martin did not have the same "style". Tony Martin was like Dio, he had to use proper singing techniques to sound any good, otherwise he's just a tonedeaf screamer. Ray Gillen was like Hughes or Cloverdale, he had a naturally resnonant voice; he could "speak sing". Tony Martin did his best, but he could not fill Gillen's shoes, and it turned what might have been a Metal Classic into a mediocre chapter of Black Sabbath's history marked only by great music and great lyrics.
Ray Gillen was the best singer in Black Sabbath by a comfortable distance....lots of bootleg stuff floating around and it convinces me that this voice could have been the "voice of rock" had he not died tragically in 1993.......
Robert Plant, David Coverdale and Ray Gillen for me, are the greatest rock singers of all time..fullstop!~ there is not a 4th to match them!!
Ray's work in Badlands and Sun Red Sun (released posthumously) was great. I agree he could have been a force in rock but for a few bad decisions and his untimely death.
As far as I'm concerned (and it's my opinion, and I'm not saying if one is better or the other), I like more Tony Martin's voice. Sounds with lotsa more presence, and his bottom end, and the way he uses to add some vibrato to consonants, not only to vowels, is amazing. Definitely, a great singer.
But that's a demo and not a definitive version. Tony's version is of course better recorded. "Live" Gillen was always more precise than Tony who had often great and bad nights . Overall Tony is incredible too.
Ray and Ian were the ultimate post Ozzy-Dio era vocalists.Tony Martin was just a Ronnie James Dio clone,PERIOD.If he had developed his own sound;he would've probably lasted longer or gotten more gigs.Ray on the other hand HAD his own sound,& he could sing CLEAR AND RAUNCHY,and his range was impressive.Anyway Ray saw his future limited in Sabbath and went on to Badlands with Jake E Lee,& proved there is life after Sabbath.
bud, listen to enough tony martin material. he is very different to Ronnie, and unlike Ronnie, he could sing every sabbath era fantasticly. Plus Tony was a more technical singer. His range was amazing back in the day. Plenty above Ronnie. Also, Tony didn't just fade out into nothing. He's still going now. His latest album is called Scream. You should check it out. Tony has an aggression to his voice similar to Ronnie's, but he is NOT a soundalike. He is his own person with his own voice.
Ray Gillen's range at the time was second to none.PERIOD.He sounded as good live as the record.A true student of the art.A shame he left so soon.RJD had his own sound;no doubt & a tremendous voice in his own right;but at the time Ray was in Sabbath,Ronnie had Dio & live Ronnie could not maintain the range Ray could.Ray showed total command in his voice.He could sing clear and raunchy.everyone else except Ian Gillen after the Ozzy era were just RJD clones.There I said it.
you speak my mind for me. Ray was awesome. The fact that they compare certain singers with Ray is an absence of critical listening skills. I studied with Ray's teacher of voice, Mr. Robert Fitzgerald. You could feel your diaghram ache from both sides and from the back when you were done taking a lesson. Probably one of the best voice teachers I have been to. I can sing but my wife is Jehovah's Witness so I guess I could sing in the new system, for eternity. Will see Ray again. How encouraging!
I don´t like how black sabbath went from the original to only Iommi... I´m like the biggest fan off the ozzy era.. and I like the dio era too!! I only want the original!! but thats me... but I must say that there are some good songs without the two!! this i one of them! really cool song..
yeah the ozzy/dio years were clearly better. Iommi is a great guitar player but it all became too blues-like, especially the vocals. still like several of the songs tho
Mike you had to hear him live,he had his own sound.His range live would cut you in two.He was a student of the voice and he learned well.He at times sounded as good or better that the records.I heard him live 3 times;in Rondinelli,and he took care of his voice very well.Great talent lost too soon.
Fuck yeah, he and Glenn Hughes are my two major influences and it pisses me off that, while I can hit his notes, my voice is not as open and free as his was. I pray to God to sound like him one day. Tony Martin couldn't have his own sound, because he had a voice just like Dio's but with a slightly shorter weaker range. Gillen was like Glenn Hughes, David Coverdale, and Ozzy Osborne...he had a naturally resonant voice, which I do too, and that is my only hope of being like him one day.
Yes Ray Gillen did pass in 93. However these are NOT Gillen's original vocals. Tony Martin rerecored Gillen's vocals. It was also Martin handling vocal duties on TYR and Headless Cross.
Yeah, Martin rerecorded Gillan's vocals, but these audios are the Eternal Idol demos with Ray Gillen handling the vocals. This doesn't even sound like Tony Martin.
Yep your right...an error my part. I pulled my old Eternal Idol out of the vaults for a spin. Martin has a decidedly more trebly voice with better range.
i wonder how tony iommi feels about this stuff floating around the net, he shouldnt care and actually be glad that people are intrested in the unreleased and unfinished stuff.
It´s great to hear this demo-version sung by Ray. I always heard, that he did all the demo´s for the complete album, but they split before it came to the final recordings. It´s no big difference to the Toni Martin recording; both were/are great. It´s just a matter of taste.
AMAZING song, even though i prefer Toni Martin, but this was ok for Gillen (dont missunderstand me Gillen is a good singer i just think Martin is a step above"
As far as 80's Sab is concerned, I really enjoy Gillen's vocals and prefer them to Martin (who to my ears always seemed a bit limited in range). Gillen was a good continuation of the Dio-sound. Shame that didn't work out. At any rate, these versions are a real treat!
Tony Martin had limited range?!! If you're just comparing to him singing on eternal idol, he had to sing in Ray's key, which was higher than his natural key. Don't confuse key with range though. On the track Devil and Daughter on the Headless cross album, Tony Martin hit the highest note ever recorded on a black sabbath track. He had the highest range of any sabbath singer.
Yeah it doesn't sound that much different. Basically they had 8 days to re-record all the vocals when Martin showed up, so I pretty much just mimicked what Gillen had done here. Did an incredible job of it too. That said, I'm sure Gillen would have gone back and done a few things different on these songs had he stuck around long enough, which really makes Martin's effort that much better.
Ray Gillen , the voice!
danielz1969 1 week ago
Don't forget Iommi was a good user of vocalists in the late 80's , but what an Ear !!! for me Gillen .. the story cont.... rock on ...
gadgerful 2 weeks ago
With Ray Gillen this song is good. Then Tony Martin comes in and turns this song from good into amazing.
TheRokunana 1 month ago
Damn....lol...Ray Gillen could've sung the goddamn PHONE BOOK, and it would've sounded majestic.....what a talent...
TheSetibevol88 1 month ago
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MichellesPoontang 1 month ago
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Who cares between Tony and Ray. The Tony Martin ERA is a discrace to the name Black Sabbath. Sorry for all you Tony Martin fans. I like Tony's voice but those albums were pretty sorry, Ray was a monster vocalist and in my opinion (and thats what it is an opinion) is better than Tony. Tony can sing but Ray blew the roof off. Tony Iommi should have stopped with the Black Sabbath name after Ian Gillian. Kind of embarrassed of the Tony Martin ERA, pretty cheesy stuff with lame keys and lyrics.
wichtermaster 4 months ago
Who cares between Tony and Ray. The Tony Martin ERA is a discrace to the name Black Sabbath. Sorry for all you Tony Martin fans. I like Tony's voice but those albums were pretty sorry, Ray was a monster vocalist and in my opinion (and thats what it is an opinion) is better than Tony. Tony can sing but Ray blew the roof off. Tony Iommi should have stopped with the Black Sabbath name after Ian Gillian. Kind of embarrassed of the Tony Martin ERA, pretty cheesy stuff with lame keys and lyrics.
wichtermaster 4 months ago
I feel like laughing at all the comments here............even taking the name of Tony Martin in the same sentence with Ray Gillen is an insult to the memory of great Ray.
Ray was a genius, anyone with even a minimal understanding of what constitutes a great voice would know that Ray Gillen was 100000 better than stupid Tony
MrFoliumofdescartes 4 months ago
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@MrFoliumofdescartes Kind of pointless and idiotic of you to compare at all but Tony Martin is "the shining" vocalist of Sabbath , Ray Gillen is shining not so much
MichellesPoontang 1 month ago
Tony? Ray? Who gives a sh*t...apples, oranges...fruit salad. Love both, hate comparisons.
meethead 4 months ago
No Disrespect to Ray but Tony Martin takes this song and makes it 1000x better.
TheRokunana 5 months ago
sounds like "down in a hole" by alice in chains in the beggining
JacksonJS50Dinky 5 months ago 2
@JacksonJS50Dinky Wow, I thought it had a 90s alternative sound to it, no wonder.
MichellesPoontang 1 month ago
oh shit tony beats this ray gillen bigtime..
bfolsen1967 5 months ago
@Ryanmetalmatthew his name is Ray, not Tony
aaaarrrgggghh 7 months ago
Yes of course. It was "Eternal Idol 1987" not "Headless Cross 1989".
Henrique7699 9 months ago
RIP Ray =(*
Luv0rSin 9 months ago
ray gillen really kicks tony martin's ass
cellozero 11 months ago
So Ray Gillen created this vocal line that Tony sings?
altjff15 1 year ago
@altjff15 No, a guy called David Donato who sang for Sabbath in 1984 after Ian Gillan left. That inception of this song was called 'No Way ouT' it might still be posted on here somehwere. BTW Donato is a great vocalist!!
Fongolitus 1 month ago
Great song.
antiglobe 1 year ago
Tony Martin is god. Period.
TheGolord 1 year ago
@TheGolord
Especially on the Misha Calvin - Evolution album from 1993! Thumbs up if you own this masterpiece!
EgoShredder 8 months ago
I have to say this song is just awesome. Both Tony Martin and Ray Gillen did very well on this. i know people will get me for this but i still think Tony Martin was a better choice for the next albums. Don´t get me wrong, Ray was an awesome singer. But i personally prefer Martin doing these songs
blasabb 1 year ago
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sound the same like tony martin awesome
aguero76 1 year ago
sound the same like tommy martin awesome
aguero76 1 year ago
@aguero76 Whos tommy martin?
SabbraCadabra789 1 year ago
@SabbraCadabra789 he ment tony martin not tommy, and he recorded 5 albums with sabbath headless cross was the best 1
billgeezeriommi 1 year ago
@billgeezeriommi lol yeah i know i was joking......
SabbraCadabra789 1 year ago
@aguero76 no he doesnt... he recorded this first, i guess tony sounds like him, in case...
victorthegroover 8 months ago
For the people who want to hear the best part start at 0:00 until 5:45.
Worst part is at 5:46 if you get what I mean...
EarthsEternal 1 year ago
Matou a pau! Pena que morreu. Melhor interpretação que eu vi desta música.
centconrs 1 year ago
The original Ray Gillen version of "The Eternal Idol" has been traded in bootleg circles for ages now.
The additional tracks on "The Eternal Idol" expanded reissue include "Some Kind Of Woman" and "Black Moon" (demo) on Disc 1. Disc 2 will comprise the entire Ray Gillen version of "The Eternal Idol" album!
spropaganda 1 year ago
@Ryanmetalmatthew But this is not Tony - it's Ray!
ClonerKing 1 year ago
Muito Bom! Very Good.
centconrs 1 year ago
I'm glad he left!! Martin is much better!!
smoothedge69 1 year ago
@smoothedge69 I love Tony Martin era Sabbath, but Martin does not hold up near as well from the studio to the live stage. He couldn't touch Ray live.
bigpaulie68 1 year ago
@smoothedge69 Ray was way better than Tony in my eyes but who am I to judge?
EarthsEternal 1 year ago
@EarthsEternal Tony Martin...a fantastic singer, no doubt about it. But I think Ray was better, and Ray's voice suited the 'Eternal Idol' album more I think. I prefer listen to 'The Complete Ray Gillen Years' than the actual album actually.
SilverTounge85 1 year ago
the most underated sabbath album, period! I have not listened to this in twenty years and it is awesome. Just proves that Tony Iommi had crazy talent. This a cool sabbath era. Maybe a bit glam long hair, but who gives a fuck?
302zman 1 year ago
Ray recorded an album with Sabbath.. then, he left for Badlands. They re-recorded the vocals with Tony Martin...
bman546 1 year ago
In-fucking-credible.
NihilistImp 1 year ago
This is Great Sabbath material!
pigletized 1 year ago
nice,nice,but i still think that Martin is better for this song,no harm felling...Cheers!
greatmacedonia3 1 year ago
I like more tony martin version
egwy604 1 year ago
@egwy604
me too
cisteina1 10 months ago
genial voz, su salida de sabbath como parte de otras las tantas historias de entras y salidas de su personal, sin embargo es de notar la tremenda fuerza vocal demasiado genail y perfecta ...RIP Ray....
HardBlues6 1 year ago
I love both vocalists but the real interesting part is that all the melody lines are pretty much exactly as with Martin - meaning they were written by Gillen. That's what he always claimed never to have been credited for and this proves him right. If you want more proof - listen to Donato's version (No Way Out) which did not have the same melody. It doesn't take anything away from Martin as Iommi probably instructed him to dub Gillen's vocals.
Anyway, thanks for sharing - wherever you got them!
ClonerKing 1 year ago
Ray recorded the entire Eternal Idol album but then left for Badlands, when Sab brought in Tony Martin he had to sing Ray's parts EXACTLY like Ray, the enunciations..everything..this I believe is Ray.
icomearoundnow 1 year ago
fantastic upland \m/\m/ Keep Rock man \m/\m/
wojtekdioo 1 year ago
The Eternal Idol best album ever
jigc23 2 years ago
It's so amazingly good part from 3:00 to 3:58....Terrific ..
pfloyd1987 2 years ago
@Ryanmetalmatthew just different style sabbath is doom metal and deep purple is more like roacknroll
akaboo69 2 years ago
ray's not bad, but tony martin really rules on this!
kingfowley 2 years ago
i wana here more ray did they actualy do a full albm together or not?
danophile07 2 years ago
Ray didnt record anything with sabbath he just performed live, but he has a fuckin great a voice!!
uu9999uu 2 years ago
He recorded this with Sabbath...just because it never was officially released didn't mean he didn't record anything.
blacksabfan 2 years ago 18
he did he recorded vocals on born again
CrushJehovah 1 year ago
@CrushJehovah
That was Ian Gillen on Born Again
uu9999uu 1 year ago
@uu9999uu Wrong! Ray recorded the whole 'Eternal Idol' album, but left as he felt the band wasn't going anywhere, before the album was released, so they got Tony Martin in, who rerecorded the vocals and then the album was released. Only track that Ray isn't singing on is 'Scarlet PImpernel', which is an instrumental feauturing some lovely guitarwork fron Iommo, and Bev Bevan is playing cymbals/percussion or something. I agree, he had a fantastic voice. A friend of mine saw them at Hammersmith.
SilverTounge85 1 year ago
@uu9999uu he recorded a whole album.
BadMotorFinger92 1 year ago
Yea they did!!!!!!! You will find it on deep purple hub. The best site for bootlegs and unreleased stuff. Register there and you'll find it for sure.
Nastybutzky 2 years ago
Yeah, Ryan, it definitely wasn't a good mix of styles with Ian. The cool thing is that he admits it! On one of my Sabbath retrospective videos, Ian laughs and says, "I was probably the worst vocalist Sabbath ever had!" While I wouldn't quite agree with that, it is true that it was a bit of a weird combination. Although the upshot of it all is that I love most of the songs on Born Again! I love Trashed, Zero The Hero and its long intro, Disturbing The Priest, Digital Bitch and Keep It Warm!
BobCubTAC 2 years ago
All Sabbath singers were good on their own IMO.
Tony has a great nose for vocalists.
Nastybutzky 2 years ago 5
Yeah, NB, I definitely agree with that. And I did like the progressive metal the Black Sabbath did with Tony Martin. It still had the dark element in there, just a bit more subtlely. Well, it's 23 years later (unbelievably enough), and I still count The Shining as one of my favorite Sab songs. Great opening theme, great groove, tasty lyrics and vocals, and very catchy. Always one of those songs that stay in my mind for hours after hearing it!
BobCubTAC 2 years ago
@Nastybutzky
100% true
1138thz 3 months ago
100% agree. I think you hit the nail right on the head. I thought that about Tony's voice the first time I heard this song on the "Metal Shop" radio program back in 1987. :)
(Man, how time flies! lol)
Honestly, I love Gillen's vocals on this song but I agree that Tony "The Cat" Martin did the better version. Whatever side one may fall on this argument, I think we can all agree that IAN GILLAN could not have sung this. Even as classic a Metal vocalist as he was...
BobCubTAC 2 years ago
I miss you, Ray. However I can't hear him singing in this recording.
noplacefordisgrace 2 years ago 3
cross proposes is a great album.
azrock86 2 years ago 2
Gillan is missed as he was a great singer. He did sabbath stuff very well live. Sabbath made great albums post ozzy & dio - Eternal Idol, Headless Cross, TYR. I hated Cross Purposes & Forbidden. Iommi rocks with Hughes in fuse which is better than 7th star or dep sessions. Iommi & Lifeson my fav guitarists of all time
KubrickLives 2 years ago 2
See, I thought Cross Purposes was a great album - very progressive metal with great clean vocals from Tony Martin, and it represented a nice smooth (and relatively quick) comeback for the band following the 2nd round of Dio-drama that followed the great (but ultimately fated) Mark III comeback of Dehumanizer.
However, I totally agree about Forbidden. They owed Reprise records 1 more album on their contract, and it shows. Tried bringing back the classic Sabbath sound with Martin, didn't work.
BobCubTAC 2 years ago
Ray Gillen has a tremendous voice but in
this particular song. through vocal effects or modulation i think that Tony Martin
delivers the real deal on the original song.
"Rip" Ray what a voice Gillen.
MrSmokeydog 2 years ago 2
The Headless Cross was demo'd and then recorded with Ray singing and then replaced his vocals.
taff622 2 years ago
Um...no?
blacksabfan 2 years ago 6
@blacksabfan ..damn right...eterenal was re-recorded...gillen had diddly squat to do with headless cross, that was iommi/powell/martin w/bass from lawrence cottle
ajpoolshark 1 year ago
That happened with The Eternal Idol
brunotm000 2 years ago
Negative...Martin was a full fledged member by the time "Headless Cross" was recorded. It was on this album, 'Eternal Idol,' that Gillen's vocals were used as a prototype for Martin to follow after Ray left.
setibevol88 2 years ago
@taff622 That was Eternal Idol, not Headless Cross. Ray was always pissed that they stole his "Rise up......." refrain.
ClonerKing 1 year ago
@taff622 Eternal Idol you mean....not Headless Cross
SirBloodcurse 1 year ago
@taff622 Wrong that was "The Eternal Idol".Ray had a dissagrement with Tony and quit to join John Sykes Blue Murder.That was when Tony just erased his vocals and Tony Martin redo all the songs.Even Eric Singer hates Iommi.He told me during the Paul Stanley solo tour(We hung out in the Berkley Carter in lovely Asbury Park N.J),Iommi was real big dick that owed him money.
ak6702 10 months ago
how do you find this song on limewire? i put black sabbath the shining but that song doesn't come up but others do? can someone answer my question please tyvm
88AnneDr
88annedr 2 years ago
You probably can't find it on limewire. What you can find on there is a lot of spyware and viruses.
There's many places to download it. Try Guitars 101. Google it.
blacksabfan 2 years ago
Just download the whole album?
Typ at google:
Black Sabath The Eternal Idol rapidshare blog
Blogs are the easiest way to find (underground) metal music.
If you like the album a lot, don't forget to buy it! ;)
calastiur 2 years ago
simply brilliant
fuchsladolfus 2 years ago
not even, Dio has a much better range.
CoonMike 2 years ago
The version by Dave Donato is laughable and disgraceful!! Simply put, Dave Donato is so bad that he can make Tony Martin sound great...LOL
Femalenosedigger 2 years ago
Hahaha wtf? Tony Martin has an awesome voice.
senorcakenice 2 years ago
Tony Martin is a joker...Ray Gillen is the real deal!!
Femalenosedigger 2 years ago
the better version from the shining is no way out with dave donato!
rippermm 2 years ago
While I like Tony Martin's voice very much, Ray Gillen had enormous natural charisma and presence- after some seasoning and with the proper opportunity he could have been a major star. If he hadn't flaked out on Sabbath, he could have been exactly what they needed to make a total comeback in credibility and popularity in the late 80s. Imagine an alternate history where we got a dream lineup- Iommi/Gillen/Butler/Powell/Nicholls. This lineup would've had a major chance of breaking Stateside.
Germany1111 2 years ago
I just don't understand how people actually believe that Tony Martin is a better vocalist than Ray Gillen....
Tony Martin is a schooled and trained vocalist who does not have much natural talent or flair....
Ray Gillen has raw talent that simply blows Tony Martin away..i have no doubt that the most talented singer in Black Sabbath(sheer talent) was Ray Gillen......
The only two guys who could have outsung Gillen on this song are Robert Plant and David Coverdale...
Femalenosedigger 2 years ago 3
Plant and Coverdale? Funny how you have no clue :)
senorcakenice 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
sabbath died right after "sabbath bloody sabbath".
aznativethug 2 years ago
noooooo way!! they sold out after "kill'em'all"!!
masakrator11 2 years ago
Martin's version blows this away; his phrasing is more theatrical and dramatic. Martin may have sounded like ONE other singer- Dio- but he was nonetheless a vocalist with first-class chops. Gillen had talent but didn't sound that different from a million other guys out there with similar ranges and phrasing.
jonsilence 2 years ago
Rise up to the shining!!!
ratbatblue555 2 years ago
all sabbath singers are awesome...except hughes who is a funk singer..he didn't fit with sabbath...also i would like to hear Coverdale with Sabbath..i had read that iommi wanted him once time after ozzy departure at 1977 and after Dio's at 1982
abcdefghij096 2 years ago
If Hughes didn't fit Sabbath(I agree, btw), then I don't think Coverdale would fit very well either. He is a blues-singer, always has been.
Member87 2 years ago
I disagree. Glenn Hughes, while traditionally a funk singer (see Trapeze), was so maleable and talented a singer (remember his high-pitched vocals on the epic "Burn?") that he really WAS able to fit his voice in with the band! Although keep in mind that "Seventh Star" wasn't really the Sabbath sound - it was originally meant as an Iommi solo album - that is, till the record co. stepped in and forced a compromise with Iommi to market this as Black Sabbath FEATURING TONY IOMMI! :P
BobCubTAC 2 years ago
All these mistakes were caused by that f***ing bitch Sharon Osbourne, she and her father Don Arden wanted to screw with Black Sabbath in every way. Ian Gillan actually wrote "Digital Bitch" about her.
bessadale 2 years ago
Interesting. I never thought about it in that way. Although the song's lyrics say, "Her big fat daddy was a money machine
He made a fortune from computers" while Don Arden was a record company executive (Jet Records, I believe). But maybe it's allegorical. I read the rest of the lyrics and I guess it could fit.
BobCubTAC 2 years ago
I read an interview where all Gillan would say on the lyrics is that they referred to a real person who had nothing to do with computers.
slycordinator 2 years ago
All sabath singers were awesome expecially Ray and Martin, the could sing DIo and Ozzy songs without butchering them.
Traductus5972 2 years ago 3
Ray Gillen is the best singer of sabbath! He is badass! ^^
PauloKiske 2 years ago 3
lose your way to the golden throne its the only way. He is you are right.
rickinick 2 years ago
shut up.
naoaceitanenhumnome 2 years ago
Unfortunately Tony got the short end of the stick.I've read some interviews and it seems like he was trying to make everybody happy and all the while getting screwed by the Sabbath management -drama machine.He played the nice guy card and got the shaft.Ray I guess just sang as himself,and the results are here.
hl1996 2 years ago 2
Ray was a student of the art.His range was second to none at that time.Tony Martin was a Dio clone,PERIOD.He had a good voice but he did'nt go for his own sound.Ray could sing raunchy and clear.Live he sounded as goos as the record and at times better.This guy was going places and he proved that there was life after Black Sabbath.Look at what he did with Badlands.
hl1996 2 years ago 2
I agree there. He was great with Badlands. "Dreams In The Dark" nearly broke that band wide open! Still one of the greatest 80's Metal songs, it was a Metal/Pop crossover!
BobCubTAC 2 years ago
Yeah, he was the best in Black Sabbath....in the same league of titans as Coverdale, Plant, Dio, Dickinson, Meine.....
Femalenosedigger 2 years ago 3
Phenomenal voice and makes that Tony Martin look like a joker.........by the time Tony Martin joined Black Sabbath, the whole concept had degenerated to a joke.......
Femalenosedigger 2 years ago
Great voice!!
Femalenosedigger 2 years ago
this guy is dead now right?
SpArTaNWaRRiOr8 2 years ago
Yes, He passed away in the early 90's. Its a shame he could Rock...!
BlistardPussy 2 years ago 2
I love this song. :)
Sam5726 2 years ago
Ray Gillen has a better range . But they certainly do have the same tone and style of singing . If you cant hear that oh well
sj507 2 years ago
I'm sorry, but Tony Martin did not have the same "style". Tony Martin was like Dio, he had to use proper singing techniques to sound any good, otherwise he's just a tonedeaf screamer. Ray Gillen was like Hughes or Cloverdale, he had a naturally resnonant voice; he could "speak sing". Tony Martin did his best, but he could not fill Gillen's shoes, and it turned what might have been a Metal Classic into a mediocre chapter of Black Sabbath's history marked only by great music and great lyrics.
CoonMike 2 years ago 3
It's amazing how much Ray G. and Tony Martin sound alike .
sj507 2 years ago
I fail to see how they sound alike.
Ray Gillen is a fantastic vocalist. Tony is not, haha.
Ploob05 2 years ago
awesome vocals!
54spiritedwill54 2 years ago
how can I find this fucking bootleg!!!!!
the3588dawn 2 years ago
You can download it if you go to my blog and click on the links.
Just go to my YouTube channel page and find the box with the link to the blog.
blacksabfan 2 years ago
This is one of the 10 best sabbath songs.
cajujoe 2 years ago 3
Ray Gillen was the best singer in Black Sabbath by a comfortable distance....lots of bootleg stuff floating around and it convinces me that this voice could have been the "voice of rock" had he not died tragically in 1993.......
Robert Plant, David Coverdale and Ray Gillen for me, are the greatest rock singers of all time..fullstop!~ there is not a 4th to match them!!
Saltburnyokel 2 years ago
freddie mercury and ian gillan are better than the three of them imo,
mrfenderbenderman 2 years ago
Ray's work in Badlands and Sun Red Sun (released posthumously) was great. I agree he could have been a force in rock but for a few bad decisions and his untimely death.
deuce1231 2 years ago
Bon Scott of AC/DC could have been the greatest Black Sabbath singer had he not tragically died in the early 80s........
Saltburnyokel 2 years ago
Bon Scott was a realy good singer. True. But I don't think, that he had been matching well with Black Sabbath. Totaly other style.
Nardarath 2 years ago 4
Better than Tony version ...
fg1998 3 years ago 2
As far as I'm concerned (and it's my opinion, and I'm not saying if one is better or the other), I like more Tony Martin's voice. Sounds with lotsa more presence, and his bottom end, and the way he uses to add some vibrato to consonants, not only to vowels, is amazing. Definitely, a great singer.
aruizi 3 years ago
But that's a demo and not a definitive version. Tony's version is of course better recorded. "Live" Gillen was always more precise than Tony who had often great and bad nights . Overall Tony is incredible too.
rideon77 3 years ago
Woah, such a great song
myownservant 3 years ago
Awesome...RIP Ray.
squier78 3 years ago 4
another amazing performance by ray to bad he left after the recordings of these sessions tony martin was great as well though /,,/ /,,/
Diopriest 3 years ago
Great track but the DIO years ruled !!
Ray sounds great and best by tony was headless cross!!
is not fair to not mention ozzy so.......
ozzy ?????
1roadghost 3 years ago 4
Ray and Ian were the ultimate post Ozzy-Dio era vocalists.Tony Martin was just a Ronnie James Dio clone,PERIOD.If he had developed his own sound;he would've probably lasted longer or gotten more gigs.Ray on the other hand HAD his own sound,& he could sing CLEAR AND RAUNCHY,and his range was impressive.Anyway Ray saw his future limited in Sabbath and went on to Badlands with Jake E Lee,& proved there is life after Sabbath.
hl1996 3 years ago
bud, listen to enough tony martin material. he is very different to Ronnie, and unlike Ronnie, he could sing every sabbath era fantasticly. Plus Tony was a more technical singer. His range was amazing back in the day. Plenty above Ronnie. Also, Tony didn't just fade out into nothing. He's still going now. His latest album is called Scream. You should check it out. Tony has an aggression to his voice similar to Ronnie's, but he is NOT a soundalike. He is his own person with his own voice.
sickspastic 3 years ago
Ray Gillen's range at the time was second to none.PERIOD.He sounded as good live as the record.A true student of the art.A shame he left so soon.RJD had his own sound;no doubt & a tremendous voice in his own right;but at the time Ray was in Sabbath,Ronnie had Dio & live Ronnie could not maintain the range Ray could.Ray showed total command in his voice.He could sing clear and raunchy.everyone else except Ian Gillen after the Ozzy era were just RJD clones.There I said it.
hl1996 3 years ago
you speak my mind for me. Ray was awesome. The fact that they compare certain singers with Ray is an absence of critical listening skills. I studied with Ray's teacher of voice, Mr. Robert Fitzgerald. You could feel your diaghram ache from both sides and from the back when you were done taking a lesson. Probably one of the best voice teachers I have been to. I can sing but my wife is Jehovah's Witness so I guess I could sing in the new system, for eternity. Will see Ray again. How encouraging!
rickinick 2 years ago
I don´t like how black sabbath went from the original to only Iommi... I´m like the biggest fan off the ozzy era.. and I like the dio era too!! I only want the original!! but thats me... but I must say that there are some good songs without the two!! this i one of them! really cool song..
MasterOfPetterz 3 years ago
yeah the ozzy/dio years were clearly better. Iommi is a great guitar player but it all became too blues-like, especially the vocals. still like several of the songs tho
sethshazam 3 years ago
He died from an AIDS related disease in a New York Hospital on December 1, 1993.
huseg 3 years ago
He sounds like Geoff Tate from Queensryche
CoonMike 3 years ago
nowhere near. trust me, i'm a huge ryche fan and Tate is my idol. Geoff has a FAR superior voice to this and the tone is comepletely different.
sickspastic 3 years ago
Mike you had to hear him live,he had his own sound.His range live would cut you in two.He was a student of the voice and he learned well.He at times sounded as good or better that the records.I heard him live 3 times;in Rondinelli,and he took care of his voice very well.Great talent lost too soon.
hl1996 2 years ago 2
Fuck yeah, he and Glenn Hughes are my two major influences and it pisses me off that, while I can hit his notes, my voice is not as open and free as his was. I pray to God to sound like him one day. Tony Martin couldn't have his own sound, because he had a voice just like Dio's but with a slightly shorter weaker range. Gillen was like Glenn Hughes, David Coverdale, and Ozzy Osborne...he had a naturally resonant voice, which I do too, and that is my only hope of being like him one day.
CoonMike 2 years ago 3
awesome vocals
Sapenti 3 years ago 2
Agree!
Seethroughfisheyes 3 years ago
oh my fucking god, whered you get this?
CoonMike 3 years ago
This guy had a great ! voice. Just like Tony Martin
sj507 3 years ago
hey Axe what u mean RIP. Ray???? he dead??
archeeizm 3 years ago
Yeah, he's been dead for 15 years.
blacksabfan 3 years ago
Yes Ray Gillen did pass in 93. However these are NOT Gillen's original vocals. Tony Martin rerecored Gillen's vocals. It was also Martin handling vocal duties on TYR and Headless Cross.
Kirlian196 3 years ago
Yeah, Martin rerecorded Gillan's vocals, but these audios are the Eternal Idol demos with Ray Gillen handling the vocals. This doesn't even sound like Tony Martin.
blacksabfan 3 years ago
Yep your right...an error my part. I pulled my old Eternal Idol out of the vaults for a spin. Martin has a decidedly more trebly voice with better range.
best
Kirlian196 3 years ago
Yeah that's why I title my videos clearly. And even add descriptions. So there's no confusion. I'm glad my hard work gets noticed.
blacksabfan 3 years ago
This is really Ray singing and not Tony and I'm blown away that he got this song with Ray!
kevbot71 3 years ago
i wonder how tony iommi feels about this stuff floating around the net, he shouldnt care and actually be glad that people are intrested in the unreleased and unfinished stuff.
beserker1912 3 years ago
Ray Gillen was awesome.I loved his work with Badlands.I always wished he stayed with Sabbath for a while.RIP Ray,fellow Jersey Boy.
axegrinder09 3 years ago
thanks for sharing this piece of gem to any Gillen fan.
1alexkeeper 3 years ago
It´s great to hear this demo-version sung by Ray. I always heard, that he did all the demo´s for the complete album, but they split before it came to the final recordings. It´s no big difference to the Toni Martin recording; both were/are great. It´s just a matter of taste.
ceegee71 3 years ago
You can compare, the mixing of this track is horrible, the voice is too low.
Illusionaire1 3 years ago
AMAZING song, even though i prefer Toni Martin, but this was ok for Gillen (dont missunderstand me Gillen is a good singer i just think Martin is a step above"
Evilsyde 3 years ago
Damn, you have some amazing stuff... hats off to you and well meant THANK YOU for sharing!!!
AmsterdamseMichael 3 years ago
As far as 80's Sab is concerned, I really enjoy Gillen's vocals and prefer them to Martin (who to my ears always seemed a bit limited in range). Gillen was a good continuation of the Dio-sound. Shame that didn't work out. At any rate, these versions are a real treat!
thesithempire 3 years ago
Tony Martin had limited range?!! If you're just comparing to him singing on eternal idol, he had to sing in Ray's key, which was higher than his natural key. Don't confuse key with range though. On the track Devil and Daughter on the Headless cross album, Tony Martin hit the highest note ever recorded on a black sabbath track. He had the highest range of any sabbath singer.
sickspastic 3 years ago 2
Higher than Glen Hughes? Ian Gillan? Never! Higher than Ozzy and Dio is OK...
fabiogmcruz 3 years ago
The Shining would really be something if Ronnie James Dio sang it!
ZackT618 3 years ago 4
Doesn't sound that much different. And if what Greatsky and gethsenamane said are both true, then it's no wonder why.
JustMyBlackSabbath 3 years ago
Yeah it doesn't sound that much different. Basically they had 8 days to re-record all the vocals when Martin showed up, so I pretty much just mimicked what Gillen had done here. Did an incredible job of it too. That said, I'm sure Gillen would have gone back and done a few things different on these songs had he stuck around long enough, which really makes Martin's effort that much better.
blacksabfan 3 years ago