Bad Science/Lies, Damned Lies and Science

[teslaandlyne]

We have never seen the work of Nikola Tesla even though his accomplishments are still being suppressed and fancied about by agents that have restricted free energy as talked about by Tesla. Did he just talk or was there substance.

[parasitesarefunny]

I would not listen to anyone who spreads the Holocaust Lie, Moon Walk Lie or 9/11 Lie.

How can LIARS tell the truth? They cannot, they can only spread more bullshit they cannot see through.

[WhelkDoctor1]

Checkout Goldacres' associates, especially Simon Wessely before you believe anything he says. Goldacre is a junior doctor desperate to make a name for himself. To make an informed decision on a subject as wide ranging and complex as science from the opinions of somebody who specialises in dumbing-down the subject is, quite frankly, "bad science".

[LOUISE80610]

I read, The English version, of Bad science last year and I am somewhat confused by the comment that there is no index in it. There is an index in the copy I have. It is an excellent book .Have not read Lies damned lies and science yet but may well buy it.

[Euclidianify]

This control issue makes it difficult for those defending science and logic to be open to anything else. They contract. James Randi is a good example, he's had cancer. Not that there aren't other patterns at play for a given person.

Of course viruses also have to do with proselytizing one's righteous views, since they like to attach, take over the cell's identity and then multiply their identity (their "views"). And its posited that viruses cause mutations that lead to cancer.

[minesaginthanks]

@Euclidianify You haven't understood biology. Please do more study.

[Euclidianify]

No, I wouldn't actually. And because of the success I'm getting with using homeopathy right now, I kind of doubt I'd get cancer.

I wouldn't rule out surgery or chemo, depending on the urgency of the situation, but I'd give whatever I would do homeopathically a chance. Cancer is an interesting example, because it has to do with a pattern that logistical and scientific thinkers have in common: that of a difficulty with things losing control. That's why they try and ardently take control.

[Euclidianify]

Wow, joanne, that is very ironic!

I've seen children get well from autism and Asperger's, both in my own homeopathic practice, and my colleagues. Have you ever made a non-rational choice?

Just given it a shot?

I can see how you'd feel if if you did and didn't get anywhere.

But I can assure you: I'm not after people's money.

I LOVE to see autistic children get better, and mother's to be ecstatic over it.

[Euclidianify]

I love how those critical of homeopathy and of those who are cautious of vaccinations, totally miss who are the one's propagandizing and zealously advocating against doing anything for real concerns of vaccine damage and viable alternative solutions to modern health care which continues to struggle in doing anything for chronic disease.

[killbot9]

@Euclidianify I would bet my house that if you got diagnosed with cancer you'd frantically knock your homeopathy bottles over and reach for the chemotherapy.

[Euclidianify]

Careful Joanne, you might be merging your Harry Potter with your science mission, and Ben Goldacre is definitely on the dark side. Nice how you bring the educational side of things into Scientism, (bringing science into the ideological realm), which you ardent logical thinkers tend to naturally do. I think you're creating evangiscience! Ask a mother whose child has been cured by a homeopathic antidote to MMR how much she cares about logical scrutiny. There's a lot of them out there.

[joannelovesscience]

@Euclidianify What you may not know is I have a child on the autistic spectrum. I have hung in circles with mothers of children with autism. My heart goes out to their desire to make a connection with their child, no matter what it takes. There is a balance between empathizing with the pain and then making appropriate, rational decisions. Anyone will take money from a desperate mother hoping for a cure. I watched it quite often.

[bromleyben2004]

@Euclidianify No child has ever been cured by homeopathy neither has anyone else, show me a study that says people have been cured by homeopathy and I will believe you, all us logical thinkers need is evidence, show us evidence and we will sing the praises of homeopathy with you. The fact is there is no evidence, all the studies so far that make claims of cures have all been disproved when properly scrutinised. Its nice and comforting to believe in things like this, I wish it were true, but alas

[Euclidianify]

@bromleyben2004 See the problem with you critical/logical thinkers is most of you need more than evidence, you need to be open to looking at and giving the evidence a chance to surface, and not get all paranoid or righteous about the "danger" of avoiding modern medical approaches. you need to lose this attitude: Its implausible, so why bother? Properly scrutinized like the Lancet meta-analysis criticized as a pathetic piece of research? And followed by a better significant study?

[minesaginthanks]

@Euclidianify Antidote to MMR? What do you mean by that? The story that the MMR causes autism was a fiction that was blown out of proportion by the media. For goodness sake vaccinate your children. No homeopathic pill or solution will stop your children getting measles, mumps or rubella. You are risking their lives if you try this sort of thing. And believe me, if a child was "cured by an MMR antidote" - whatever that means - they had nothing wrong with them in the first place.

[Euclidianify]

@minesaginthanks "whatever that means" Boy you're talking from a real educated point of view there yourself.

It means the remedy helps the body repair the damage the vaccine had done ie causing autism. Funny how the US set up a whole arbitration counsel to buy out parents who were suing the government and pharm cos. for causing ASD's to their children. after the supreme court ruled they couldn't rule out cause-effect. "nothing wrong in the first place?" how insulting to the parents of these kids

[minesaginthanks]

@Euclidianify You also do not understand the concept of irony. To use it in this context is deeply insulting and a little bit vicious. And propagandizing isn't a word. What is your level of education? Did you graduate from high school?

[Euclidianify]

@minesaginthanks I have 7 years of post-secondary education, and 1000s of hours of continuing ed.

Propagandizing: prop·a·gan·dize[ pròppə gán dz ](, prop·a·gan·diz·es) to spread propaganda

Irony: paradox, I talked of a possible cure/help for autism, she was trashing that possibility with her ideology and at the same time has an autistic child. Seems right. If I offended Joanne, I apologize. My heart goes out for any parent having to deal with it. And I acknowledge most cases are from birth.

[tooyjfwn]

@Euclidianify Do you honestly expect to use ridiculous ad homs like "scientism", promote snake oil homeopathy, and be taken seriously in life?

[Euclidianify]

@tooyjfwn Whose life? There you skeptics go again, speaking for everyone and everything. And immediately assuming I'm "promoting" homeopathy. Your kind are the ones who want to promote some hyperbolic agenda of taking care of the world and protecting it with with double blind placebo checks. I'm simply giving perspective and illuminating an insidious and harmful ignorance. "Scientism" perfectly represents that kind of thing. "Snake oil", conversely, doesn't relate whatsoever with homeopathy.

[ilsaloving]

@Euclidianify Actually, snake oil very much relates to homeopathy. Actually, that's not true. Snake oil may actually have some beneficial elements to it. Homeopathy has been unequivocally demonstrated to not have any benefit whatsoever compared against placebo. Homeopathy practitioners continually present their supposed craft as cures to a variety of illnesses, and this amounts to fraud. If this doesn't meet the generally accepted definition of 'snake oil', I dunno what does.

[Euclidianify]

@ilsaloving I'll tell you what does: Claiming that drugs are the ONLY way to go based on their "research". Well it happens that many drugs aren't well studied, or they're used for something they're not meant for anyway. Or when studies are continued they are shown to become not better than placebo. And the whole fraction of the story on vaccinations yet the commie-push to distribute them: thats the definition of "snake oil". And using terms like "unequivocally" in the face of many good studies.

[ilsaloving]

@Euclidianify I'm sorry, but how did pharmaceuticals get into this? Effectiveness of pharmaceuticals is a different topic entirely. My point is quite simple and specific, and that point is homeopathy is fraudulent. Practitioners sell very expensive water and claim all sorts of benefits, ALL of which have been demonstrated to be false. Please cite these supposed "good" studies. If you can get me drunk on homeopathic beer, then maybe I'll believe you.

[prez58]

@Euclidianify

Damn....science flails helplessly against your unassailable anecdotal evidence.

From now on scientists should just go to the pub and ask some bloke "what he reckons".

[TheFireHorseUK]

I'm not a total fan of his work but I do support his view on the MMR - he is right to criticise uneducated parents and scar-mongering press... The trouble with his book is that while Europeans can digest and select useful information for their own benefits and knowledge, Americans do tend to get hysterical by pulling out small information chunks and blown them into something unrecognisable. Just read comments on the post alone.... Exception would be the North East Coast....

[JimTLonW6]

There are a lot of people who certainly should read Ben Goldacre's book! Maybe we should have a list, or send copies to a few people?

[flylike1]

" two wonderful books to give you tools to be able to analyze and interpret scientific news and claims we are confronted with daily"

Or you could just get your information from scientific journals and peer-review articles

[sugarcanegray]

Well done for raising awareness of this topic. Ben Goldacre is a breath of fresh air in the UK, I hope you have the same success state-side.

[TrueGreatness73]

I question everything. I am not your typical American. To many victims to propaganda. Hitler once said that if he had control of all the resources he can rule the world.

[ShowalterdontlikeME]

Something rotten it the state of Demark Hill? Ben Goldacre is a British psychiatrist. Whenever he appears on British television he always seems to be going on about psycho-sociogenic mass hysteria. I fail to see the "Science" in that concept. Goldacre is always careful never to criticise Prof Andrew Wakefield's work on MMR. He has always blamed journalists. A man who believes in the existence of flying saucers brought the compliant to the British GMC against Wakefield.

[ivorbueb]

Ummm....not put off by the "English" flavour because of the practise she'd got from reading the Harry Potter books. Glad to see an academic in the States who is prepared to go that extra step to understand other cultures.

[oldeubank]

Well done. Excellent reviews so thanks for that. I've already read Goldacre's book and it's very good indeed.

I hadn't head of Lies, Damnded Lies and Science until I watched this video, so I'll go out and get that.

Thanks once again Joanne.

[swinkyuk]

Excellent reviews Joanne. I've read Ben Goldacre's book so I'll try the other on your recommendation. Thanks.

[legex1233]

Bad Science is a brilliant book, good to see people premoting this sort of thing alongside the millions of pro homeopathy and anti immunisation proponants that just cannot be reasoned with.

[pete975]

I've already got the first book and I will be looking out for the second one.

I agree that science teaching should spend more time teaching the principles of scientific methodology instead of just teaching a list of facts and equations that have to remembered and regurgitated at an exam.

[PHenry500]

Wow, a hot science teacher! I might have stayed in class had I had a great woman like you teaching me science. Thanks for the info here. I've read one of those books, so I guess I have to go get the other one now. Oh, and it's not the MMR vaccine that is a problem, it's the 30 others they "require."

[TheFallibleFiend]

Such a coincidence! I just bought this book a few weeks ago!

[KingOfAllMorons]

Trying to suppress my feeling of deja vu here (inside joke)! Joan, thank you for bringing these books to our attention. In a world where we are inundated with so much "information" with varying claims of authority, critical thinking skills come to the fore. I look forward to more of your insights/book reviews (especially for us "scientifically challenged" out here!)

[MariaVosa]

Since you have such a great message, and is obviously very good at writing a good presentation of it, I would really like to see you developing your videos a bit more. The sound is horrible and makes it difficult to follow a 7-minute monologue. It would also be good if you could edit in some images on the subject you are discussing, in this case two books. This will make it easier to get your message across.

Pedadgogy is a science as well (kind of)

[joannema7]

Thank you for the kind comments. I agree that production value could be bumped up a bit. I'm still cutting my teeth on all of this...focusing on content for now at least until I am free of my semester responsibilities.

[joannelovesscience]

.....or wait for the US version...this was well written!

[grantdrummond]

@joannelovesscience Nice vid. I would recommend to you The March of Unreason: Science, Democracy, and the New Fundamentalism by Dick Taverne (although it's another book by one of us damned Brits so you may have to import it too :) ). Is of the same ilk as Bad Science but takes in things like GM crops, irrational enviromentalism, etc. Sort of a Bad Science+ if you like. Keep up the good work :)

[Rystefn]

Thanks for the heads-up. I've heard about Goldacre before, and it's been nothing but positive. Guess I need to order the book or something, yeah?