LDS believe Jesus is the Son of God... the only begotten... What standpoint differs?
You are not well versed in JS are you? His marriages are in fact debatable. In fact the only trial that talked about them they were found to not be his wives... I'm assuming you were ignorant of this simple fact... cause anti people quote often from this court case but fail to inform you of the things they do not want you to know... Typical propaganda...
You are a typical ignorant hater. I'm neither a member or formal member. So i give you a small fact and you reply with brainwashed? LOL Thanks for the laugh... I suggest you do your own research instead of reading someones commentary that has in common with you a hate toward the LDS.
Still waiting on this standpoint that differs between LDS and what the Bible teaches. Or are you only about sowing doubt without facts? ie propaganda.
@pmoyer50 I hate to disappoint you but the internet is not always the best source for information about specific religions.
So why do you get all your information for it??? or your youth pastor... FYI... he got all his info form the .net
I'm not against Mitt... but I think he would be a better man then Obama... I like Ron Paul. I just wish he would not be so extreme in his foreign policies.
@pmoyer50 I hate to disappoint you but the internet is not always the best source for information about specific religions.
So why do you get all your information for it??? or your youth pastor... FYI... he got all his info form the .net
I'm not against Mitt... but I think he would be a better man then Obama... I like Ron Paul. I just wish he would not be so extreme in his foreign policies.
How do LDS discriminate against gays? I'm guessing you are going to point at the Prop 8 they supported. This is not discrimination any more then not letting people practice polygamy.
Your ignorance on their relationship with blacks does not mean it is dubious.
Obama... I bet you were one of those idiots in line waiting for the obama money... am i right? Ever get it?
@pmoyer50 That's an erroneous statement if I ever read one.
Why? Because you are a true believer and the Jews weren't? You are justified in your judgment of the LDS and the Jews were not in their judgment of the Samaritans?
Instead of just making a claim back it up. I think you need to read the parable of the Good Samaritan...
In the 70's we were explicitly told not to refer to as ourselves as Christians; we were superior, we were LDS. Entering a Christian book store was forbidden. Priesthood meetings were sometimes very critical of Christians and Christian churches although we were told to never openly criticize them. The Temple Endowment contained a portion where Christian ministers were portrayed as hirelings of Satan. I guess nowadays obfuscation gains them more converts.
1: Learn the difference between what is doctrine and what is not. 2: Learn how to identify a teaching style versus literal. 3: No examples of it ever being practiced, so you can sensationalize and demand all you want, LDS didn't practice it, meaning the issue is YOUR interpretations. Also actualy read the Doctrine of Salvation rather then a quote mined summery.
@Dyoni1 Still not sure what you are so upset about. The article I sited has mainly to do with Capital Punishment and that was the context of my question. When my family went through the temple in the 70's the "Penalty of the First, Second and Third Token" were sill included. But as you say, there is no verifiable evidence of it ever being carried out. Thankfully they were removed in April 1990, verified by my in-laws after their last temple work before they left the Church.
@Dyoni1 I never claimed to be an authority on the LDS Church. It's been about 21 years since my wife and I left the church, and about 22 years for the rest of her family. I don't keep up on the continual changes to LDS doctrine, what it presently teaches, or what past teachings it presently denies ever having taught. I don't know the “flowery language” it hides behind now. Only what I was taught as a member which I'm sure has changed as it did during my membership.
@midkanzan Strange how you claim not to be an authority when you keep trying to tell LDS what it is they believe. Obviously you forgot the teachings of LDS of an open cannon of scripture and eternal progression, that is, IF you were ever a member. You show so much ignorance in the doctrine of the church I find it very doubtful. Sounds like someone trying to make a claim just because he is faceless on youtube.
@Dyoni1 For all your arrogance, condescension and insults, verifying you are probably LDS, you have yet to address any substance other than my lack of using the “current approved obfuscation language.”
@midkanzan You want arrogance, look in the mirror, telling others what they have to believe because you say so. Yiou fail to address any of the facts that poke holes in your accusations, and your only defense for this is to 'pretend it doesn't exist'. Stereotype all you want, lazy critics who can't do their homework have nothing to offer.
@Dyoni1 The problem with our original discussion as I see it is that we are using the same words but a different lexicon. Salvation for LDS is synonymous with resurrection in that Christ's atonement brings resurrection for all, except the truly wicked. By contrast, salvation in traditional Christianity is a free gift, but must be accepted. It guarantees being with God in his Kingdom after death. Can we use these definitions as a starting point?
@Dyoni1 Do you disagree with these statements? “All men are saved by grace alone without any act on their part, meaning they are resurrected.” (Bruce McConkie, What Mormons Think of Christ, p.28). “There will be a General Salvation for all in the sense in which that term is generally used, but salvation, meaning resurrection, is not exaltation” (Stephen Richards, Contributions of Joseph Smith, p.5) How was my statement any different?
@midkanzan Sigh, the difference is you take a point of view without any attempt to understand LDS perpective, and try to apply to them your own terms of what YOU think LDS believe. You don't attempt to learn what is meant by salvation and exhaultation applying instead your own set of rules without a care for the whole picture that LDS sees, and in doing so you try to cut an paste only the part of the picture that you want to see represent LDS with our own drawings added on rather then the truth.
@Dyoni1 All I was trying to do was establish a starting point for discussion by defining the word “salvation.” I said nothing about exaltation yet. But it seems if I don't provide you with an exhaustive treatise on LDS theology in the small space provided here you resort to ad hominem.
@midkanzan The problem is that you are trying to define it in your own terms, not LDS. The LDS concept is much more broad and encompasing then what you try to place a definition on, by oversimplyfing it, you leave out points that distort the doctrine, and therefore convey the wrong impression. You define LDS salvation as different from Christianity, when it is the same, but has more detail into the nature of it.
@midkanzan To simplify, imagine a red box. If Christianity said, this is a red box, LDS would be saying, this is a red box which is this high and this wide. Both are discribing the same box, and neither are wrong, but you are basically saying, because LDS include the measurement, they are not describing the same box. The box does not become different simply because LDS gave a more complex description of it.
@midkanzan Neither does it become a different box when you change the LDS description to only include the measurement, but you try to make it sound different by sayiing, LDS describe a box this high and this wide, while Christiantiy describes a red box. If you exclude the information given, just to make it sound different, you are the one at fault, not LDS.
Oh please, there is no evidence that this was ever practiced, any the only way you can jump the conclusion that it was taught is by misrepresenting Brigham Youngs teaching style, as well as ignoring the LDS views on prophets, not to metion showing complete ignorance on doctrinal process. Tell me, is 'sateing it differently' your code for decieving?
@Dyoni1 I don't understand your reaction to my question. I suggest you read Martin Gardner’s Spring 1979 Dialogue article on “Mormonism and Capital Punishment” He states in part: “Other early Mormon leaders, including Jedediah M. Grant and Herber C. Kimball, both counselors in the First Presidency of the Church, taught the doctrine of blood atonement and all played major roles in implementing the first capital punishment law in Utah.” Also look at Doctrines of Salvation 1:135,138
How can the mormons want to accept them as Christians when they believe something totally different from Christianity? Thats like saying a horse is a dog. No, Christian is a Christian and mormon is a mormon.
@gotsumthin2say Please, tell us what LDS believe the exclude them for Christianity? Perhaps you will make a list of 'requirements to be Christian'? Careful not to exclude all of christianity in your attempt.
For any Man to decide who is or is not Christian is the ultimate arrogance. Only Christ can decide who is his and who isn't. It's not up to us to decide who is not Christian. Your arrogance is appalling.
@imalikconnor By "definition" christians are christian by there doctrine alone its not arrogant to define yourself by your personal doctrine, Mormons can't define themselfs as christians because by definition there not, you have to understand the meaning of the word and how christian is defined by its practice and doctrine you go outside of it or beyond it by definition your something else period. Mormon doctrine is failing thats why there using the christian title to deceive converts.
@wachnathan Read the definition of Christian "Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus", so by the definition LDS ARE Christian.No amount of trying to give your own definition will change that.
@Dyoni1 Only one problem with that one you don't believe in the actual historically reported Yeshua, your Jesus is a northman a blond haired racist a fabrated spin off of the biblical Yeshua. What you don't understand is that i was a mormon once and i understand that the church is only trying to mask themselves as christians so that they can get more converts, now is that what a truthful church would do? The LDS church is a self centered greedy bunch let me tell ya lol
@wachnathan Riiiiiiiiiiiiight, Because Jesus in the Bible magically becaomes someone else to anyone you say, just because. Seriously get over yourself, I've head the 'I was mormon once' thing a hundred times, and never once they ever been able to tell me even the basics of LDS beliefs, tell me are you any different, or are you just another guy with a chip on his shoulder trying to convince the world to believe anything but reality? You can make all the claims you want, they are still Christian.
@Dyoni1 This is what pisses me off just because an ex-mormon finds out that the doctrine can't be vaildated you "assume" its because of a bad experience and some cases you could be right i don't know. Am not attacking am encouraging my fellow mormons to analyize the doctrine and look at that facts that don't support your book of mormon anyone who says its taboo or evil to question your beliefs is wrong you have full right to know the truth just because the LSD church is big doesn't make it true.
@wachnathan Your not encouraging people to examine, your ecouraging them to assume based on your own assumptions. Whenever someone like you has made a claim, I HAVE gone and looked it up, studied it, and everytime, I find a wealth of information you 'conveniantly' overlook. You take things out of context, expecting others not to investigate, but to take you on your word. The LDS church has encouraged people to study, thus it's high education rates. You encourage ignorance, hoping to fool others.
What critics do is rely on a number of falacies to try 'win' by manipulation of words. For instance, asking hundreds of question(proof by verbosity) in attempt to ware others down then recycling those questions, even after they are answered. It is interesting to note the shere amount of logical falacies that they come up with in persuit of shouting down truth.
@Dyoni1 My question is why doesn't the LDS church admit or provide answers regarding the claims in the book of mormon can't be found any where, fact is those claims are there and can't verifed so we have to logically assume the stories are indeed fabracated there is no other exuse the claims are clear cut despite what the apologists say. I know that the church now goes with just feelings that make it true but that is to deceive you from the facts they indeed know there is a problem with BOM.
@wachnathan Riiiight, the fact that precolumbian bees, elephants, gold, metal plates, stone boxes, etc... are found AFTER the coming of the Book of Mormon eans absolutely nothing. That is, it means nothing to a guy who ignores any and all things that shoot down his narrowminded assalts against others. Seriously, get a life.
I understand that invaidations hurt but its not personal its never personal to challenge a growing theology that isn't supportable and i mean this with respect, by all means i don't wanna be a dick about it every body has the right to be what they want to but the truth is you should have at least justification for it.
@wachnathan Good thing you havn't invalidated anything. Except yourself. Anyone who claims they get to decide who is Christian or not reguardless of the definition gets an automatic fail. LDS are Christian, no amount of self righteous 'dickery' on your part will ever change that.
Deceitfully crafted? Interesting! Then he never mentions one of the 13. He has presented some of our beliefs very craftily, as though the very mention of them proves they are wrong. I'll take one. We all believe that Jesus is the Son of God, lived a perfect "life", increasing in stature, etc. Was crucified & resurrected & ascended to heaven. But remember, he described THAT body..Touch me! Feel me! I am not a Spirit, but flesh & bone.Christ took on human form & now is a glorified, tangible being
To be christian, You must believe in Christ. Know that he is your redeemer. What ticks me off is that people judge mormons. I am a convert to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and i love being a member. Through all my years of going to different churches, I have never felt the holy ghost testify to me so strong of the truth of the gospel. my testimony grows, and I shed tears because of how thankful i am to have found this gospel, It's life changing.
@TewaGirl09 "You must believe in Christ." Yes, but which Christ? If I were to name a dog Christ and say I believe in him, would that do? I don't think so. The Mormon organization is pretty good, I'll admit. I was once a member, so I know. But I never knew the real Christ until I came to a personal relationship with Him directly. Not through any "church." Please remember that feelings deceive.
@midkanzan "Yes, but which Christ?" Tell me, if I think Obama is exciting and insiteful, and you think he is boring and dull, does that make him two different Obama's? Certianly not, LDS believe in Jesus of the Bible, just because they have different opinions of him, as every denomination has, does not make him a 'different Jesus" Seriously, the way you put it suggests you don't believe in Jesus as a person at all.
@midkanzan That depends, do you consider yourself a Lutheran, Angelican, Baptist, Methodist, and Presbyterian as well? All those are also Christian. You try to imply 'one and the same' as if you must be both or neither. You can be LDS which is by nature Christian, just as you can be Lutheran which is Christian, but not LDS, any more then LDS are Lutherans. You do not have to accept me as Christian for me to be so, I believe in Christ and his teachings, therefore I am Christian.
@Dyoni1 I presently attend a Lutheran Church. I can go to any Christian denomination and be accepted as Christian and saved. With few exceptions the basic doctrines and confession of faith are pretty much the same. But I'm not saved by any church. My salvation is in Christ alone, through His grace, not by any actions of my own. Do you accept that?
@midkanzan "accepted as Christian" You did not say accepted as Baptist, or as Angelican. You DID say accepted as LDS. I can accept you as Christian, but it is different then saying the the terms Christian and LDS are interchangable. It is clear that you are trying to create an issue through word-play rather then a true resolution. As for 'saved' you'll probably be saved reguardless of what church you attend, unless you do something extreme such as murder or genuinely rebel against God knowingly.
If you had truely studied and learned as an LDS member, you would know that LDS do not condemn other churches simply because of theological differences, believing that all churches have truth in them, and that we can learn from that. I can appreaciate the Koran as much as the principles of buddhism, as each contains something I can learn from. From your statements so far, you seem a bit too eagar to create a conflict rather then learn about a belief.
@Dyoni1 In Biblical Christianity, “saved” means one has accepted the free gift of grace given by Christ paying the penalty (death) of our sin and is trying to (albeit imperfectly) follow His example. The Kingdom of God awaits us after death, not by our own actions but by the action of Christ. In LDS theology Christ's sacrifice is insufficient for one to enter the upper two “kingdoms.” One must earn their own way through the LDS Church. This is but one of the many differences.
@midkanzan So you believe a murderer is automatically saved reguardless of weither he atones or not? You fail to apply all the teachings of Jesus, and indeed, you have misrepresented LDS beliefs. LDS teach there are two deaths, physical death, which by Christ's sacrifice is overcome, which all recieve, then there is the death of the spirit, by which requires our own participation, namely refraining from sin and sincerly repeating when we inevitably do, in which Christ forgives us of our sins.
You also have misrepresented the 3 kingdoms, and mixed it up with the concept of exhaltation. Seriously, you show us that you know less and less about LDS then you claim, and sound more like someone who skimmed through a book without bothering to study it in detail. I ask you, why do you expect to be taken seriously when it is obvious you don't kow about LDS?
@Dyoni1 No one is “automatically” saved. Repentance is conscious decision. I'm curious though, when you say one “atones” for ones sins, are you referring to blood atonement as taught by Brigham Young, et al? I don't think I misrepresented LDS doctrine, I just stated it differently than you did. Aren't the temple endowments still necessary to reach the Celestial Kingdom and godhood? They certainly were when I was a member in the 70's, although they've changed dramatically since.
@TewaGirl09 The Bible warns about trusting feelings..."the heart is deceitfully wicked above all things, who can know it?" We are told to test all things and in Deuteronomy it shows us how to test "prophets". If even one prophecy does not come to pass, that person is not a prophet of God. Joseph Smith has had many false prophecies. I was raised LDS, I urge you to study the book of John to begin with. Study the epistles, read all the warnings about false Christs and false doctrines.
@jeanniem76 Yeah, try applying the Deuteronomy test to biblical prophets by the same standards you push on modern prophets. I always find those who do so equally condemn those they accept as prophets in the bible. Interestingly enough, it also condemns the angel of the lord that spoke to Samsons mother if we hold by those same standards. The problem is usually that the critic does not apply tendancies in prophecies, prefering to make a double standard.
I don't agree with this video at all! I'm a convert to the LDS church since 1981 and can't imagine being in any other church. We are more Christian than any other church! I know there are alot of misconceptions about Mormons, and misunderstood Bible verses, etc. I read all this stuff when I was first investigating the church. But I took time to learn the truth. Mormons are Christians! I wouldn't have joined the church otherwise.
The coming struggle is not between Mormons, or catholics. or Protestants. It will be between the non-muslim world and the rest of the world. When a muslim puts a gun to my head and tells me to convert or die, will I stand my ground and die for my beliefs or convert? Will you convert to Islam or die? There will be no third choice. You either convert or die.WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
holy crap (no pun intened) i dont care what you call me first off. second if god is perfect it doesnt matter what someone belives as long as they try there hardest to live life the way they think they should they will be rewareded if they are taught one way and to the oposite than they will be punished. Why does all the spacific docteren matter? your making it way to complex!
Part 3: The devout Mormon believes this text is inspired because Joseph Smith said it is. He believes Smith had the authority to claim divine inspiration for the Book of Mormon because the book itself says Smith was a prophet and had such authority.
PArt 2: The problem is that these exact same errors show up in the Book of Mormon (BOM). It seems reasonable to assume that since Smith was a prophet of God and was translating the BOM under divine inspiration, he would have known about the errors found in the KJV and would have corrected them for when passages from the KJV appeared in the BOM. But the errors went in.
Part 1: The only Bible that Jo Smith relied on was the King James Version (KJV). This translation was based on a good but imperfect set of Greek and Hebrew manuscripts of the Bible. Scholars now know the Textus Receptus contains errors, which means the KJV contains errors.
If the Book of Mormon contains all the ordinances and principles that pertain to the gospel, why don’t Mormonism’s esoteric doctrines show up in it? The doctrine that God is nothing more than an "exalted man with a body of flesh and bones" appears nowhere in the Book of Mormon. Nor does the doctrine of Jesus Christ being the "spirit brother" of Lucifer.
@Brittanyann14 We did our research that's why we're saying they're not Christians. They believe that God was once a mortal man like us and that we can also become Gods. Unless you're totally stupid you'll realise that we Christians do not believe such heresy. Get over it.
@toollover95 When I was a Mormon. I was taught that the LDS god was once a man. “We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see. ... It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the Character of God, ... that he was once a man like us; yea, that God the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp.345-346.) Please learn more about your church.
"Biblical doctrine of the trinity" The trinity isn't a biblical doctrine. Yes, we're Christians. If you have a problem with it get over it. I find it ironic that this guy quoted Abraham Lincoln since Lincoln actually fulfilled a prophecy given by Joseph Smith. Yes, our doctrines are biblical.
Alan Cairns, you're making life too complicated for yourself. Mormons, i.e., members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, believe in Jesus Christ, the very same Jesus of the Bible. Get over it. I'm a Mormon; I know what we believe. You, on the other hand, have done very little research to know what you are talking about. Christians come in many varieties; who gave you the authority to declare whose Christians and who is not? You're a mere mortal! You're not a god!
@DrTerminus Agreed. I find it funny how Everybody is doing very little research, instead of just asking us Mormon's, Who attend Sacrament every sunday. It's Ridiculous.
This man is making up stories and deceptively dictating himself to be an absolute bearer of truth. However, the truth is he is only a man and a human being so he himself is not is perfect. Be thou weary of those with such pride in their hearts.
The Book of Mormon is a Satanic Trap. It looks Biblical because Joseph Smith plagiarized 25 chapters many verses and many of the accounts given in the Bible into the Book of Mormon, while trying to make them bigger and more dramatic. 2 Nephi 33:5 tells you that no man will be angry with the words in the Book of Mormon except he shall be of the spirit of the devil A Brainwashing trap for those who start to believe this book of lies.
Mormons are christions you can say no all you want thats why we got the name of the savior on the church but people will always judge just like they have since long time all go but God bless all. peace
Here is just one Major difference that goes right to the ESSENCE!
LDS declare their OWN WORTHYness
"Ponder your personal worthiness to use the sacred authority you hold" Richard G. Scott, "Honor the Priesthood and Use It Well," ENSIGN, Nov. 2008, 45
CHRISTIANS declare the worthyness and RIGHTEOUSNESS of Christ!
HOLY BIBLE Romans 3 "declare HIS righteousness for the remission of sins"
@rickgigliotti see this is something i never understood, Somehow out of the 10,000 different gods that mankind has conjured out of thin air, How can 9,999 of them be totally fake, but yours be real. Either invisible holy babysitters exist or they do not, how can one be real and all others be false. So let me get this right... your god is real, all other humans are brainwashed cult members, you and your little club all get to go to some afterparty in the sky and everyone else gets to burn? pfft
Still Waiting BP, why suddenly so silent, is it due to the fact that you cannot come up with a convincing lie to explain why you allow God to command someone to lie in one case but not another?
As we can see, the usual tactic of BP when faced with a question he can't answer, scream and tantrum and try to change the subject with faulty spam claims, truely pathetic.
Right, you should really move away from your repetitious demands and actually answer a single question, like, why is God allowed to clearly command Moses to lie, as he does thoughout Exodus, but is not allowed to command others to? Still waiting.
Every Scripture points to Moses lieing to Pharoah again and again, that they go into the wilderness and sacrifice, not leave the land completely, every scripture supports everything I have said, and you continue to pretend that it does not exist. You have not read the scriptures, you do not harken untothem, you merely pick though it for ammunition, but pay no attention to what the people are doing. Let me guess, you watched "The Prince of Eqypt" and decided that was the true version?
31¶And he called for Moses and Aaron by night, and said, Rise up, and get you aforth from among my people, both ye and the children of Israel; and go, serve the Lord, as ye have said. 32Also take your flocks and your herds, as ye have said, and be gone; and bless me also.
Let's see, sounds to me like Pharoah thinks they are going three days into the wilderness to sacrifice. Now what was it that I said? Oh yes, the exact same thing. Still waiting...
24¶And Pharaoh called unto Moses, and said, Go ye, serve the Lord; only let your flocks and your herds abe stayed: let your little ones also go with you. 25And Moses said, Thou must agive us also sacrifices and burnt offerings, that we may sacrifice unto the Lord our God.
-Ex 10:24-25 26Our cattle also shall go with us; there shall not an hoof be left behind; for thereof must we take to serve the Lord our God; and we know not with what we must serve the Lord, until we come thither.
28And Pharaoh said, I will let you go, that ye may sacrifice to the Lord your God in the wilderness; only ye shall not go very far away: intreat for me. 29And Moses said, Behold, I go out from thee, and I will intreat the Lord that the swarms of flies may depart from Pharaoh, from his servants, and from his people, to morrow: but let not Pharaoh deal deceitfully any more in not letting the people go to sacrifice to the Lord.
25¶And Pharaoh called for Moses and for Aaron, and said, Go ye, sacrifice to your God in the land. 26And Moses said, It ais not meet so to do; for we shall sacrifice bthe abomination of the Egyptians to the Lord our God: lo, shall we sacrifice the abomination of the Egyptians before their eyes, and will they not stone us? 27We will go three days’ journey into the wilderness, and sacrifice to the Lord our God, as he shall command us.
8Then Pharaoh called for Moses and Aaron, and said, Intreat the Lord, that he may take away the frogs from me, and from my people; and I will let the people go, that they may do sacrifice unto the Lord.
16And thou shalt say unto him, The Lord aGod of the Hebrews hath sent me unto thee, saying, Let my people go, that they may bserve me in the wilderness: and, behold, hitherto thou wouldest not hear.
3And they said, The aGod of the Hebrews hath met with us: let us go, we pray thee, three days’ journey into the desert, and sacrifice unto the Lord our God; lest he fall upon us with pestilence, or with the sword.
-Exodus 5:3
Right, I'm lieing, that's why Moses said exactly as I said. Maybe you should actuallyread the scriptures instead of demanding that they be ignored for your own twisted intrepretations.
Maybe you should address your double standards rather then try and pretend they don't exist.
18And they shall hearken to thy voice: and thou shalt come, thou and the elders of Israel, unto the king of Egypt, and ye shall say unto him, The Lord God of the Hebrews hath met with us: and now let us go, we beseech thee, three days’ journey into the wilderness, that we may sacrifice to the Lord our God.
Still waiting on why God can command Moses to lie but no other.
6And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.7He that overcometh shall inherit call things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
11He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.12And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.43Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
These things hast thou done, and I kept silence; thou thoughtest that I was altogether such an one as thyself: but I will reprove thee, and set them in order before thine eyes.
Now consider this, ye that forget God, lest I tear you in pieces, and there be none to deliver.
Revelation 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever LOVETH and maketh a LIE.
Revelation 21:27 And there shall in NO WISE enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
You continuously show us your attempts to control and decided what God will or will not do, as if you think you own God, just as you think you have authority to demand what LDS believe. You are puffed up in pride and self righteousness, a schemer and a deceiver, proven so upon countless times of being caught in your lies, and continuing to insist that by your hand God's will is decided. I pray for your soul, for one day you will have to go before Him and will know of your deeds.
God commanded Moses to Lie and the people to steal, and you will continue to insist that the words which God commanded Moses to use were not spoken. According to you that would mean Moses disobeyed the Lord, and thus you make Moses a 'false prophet' by your own standard. As usual all you show us is your own double standards and hypocrasy. You pick and choose what scriptures you will listen to and deny the rest. If anyone is false here, it is you.
...his slaves to go free after a mass murder in his kingdom? No, he was doing what he thought he had to do to appease the isralite God and stop the plagues, God had told Moses to lie, so Pharoah would be more willing to let them go, thinking he would be getting his slaves back, and then clearly shows outrage when he is told they are fleeing, the Bible says that the Egyptians LENT, not gave, thus by borrowing with no intention of returning, they stole.
@bdplist You should really inspect more closely and stop treating the Bible like a fairy tale. You act as if Pharoah and Moses are just fictional, not subject to humanity, Pharoah taked to MOSES, he let Moses take the people and told HIM, never to see him again, as he was giving him the thing he had demanded, the three days journey to sacrifice he was telling Moses to never come to him again. His entire kingdom was built on slaves, realistically, do you think that he would just allow...
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Ex 14:5 And it was told the king of Egypt that the people fled: and the heart of Pharaoh and of his servants was turned against the people, and they said, Why have we done this, that we have let Israel go from serving us?
Riiiight, absolutely no expectation of return. Moses lied to Pharoah, and after plague and ruin agreed to allow the Isrelites to go three days to sacrifice, and when he saw they were fleeing went after them. Again, why is it ok for God to command Moses to lie, but no other?
This make me laugh ! I'm sorry but we don't need you approve to be Christians hahahaha who are you? you don't own Christ to approve or not who to be a christian,
this is funny! learn how to be humble mister who ever is speaking.
Last time I checked 'lent' means 'borrow', and when you 'borrow' with no intention of returning it is called 'stealing', You are trying to excuse without addressing the fact, God commended Moses to lie to Pharoah and to 'borrow' with no intention of returning (stealing), in order to intentionally 'spoil' (loot) the Eqyptians. Again this is clearly God commanding his people to lie and steal in the bible, so why is it ok for him to do this here and not in the Book of Mormon?
@bdplist Mabe you should. You are doing nothing but demanding that all other scriptures be ignored. I am still waiting for you to answer the question instead of trying to construct reasons not to. Reguardless fo how the eqyptians felt, God told Moses to lie to Pharoah to convince them to let them go under the impression that they would be back in three days. The Eqyptians LENT their gold and silver, while the lord God commanded the 'borrow' specifically to SPOIL the Eqyptians.
@bdplist Riiiiigght, which is why exodus scriptures are clearly seen posted for all to see. Your pathetic attempts to deny the evidence and scripture placed plainly before you only reenforces the fact that you are a fraud unable to accept anything, unable to answer anything, and unable to grasp anything other then his own delusions and deceptions. You can't and won't answer the simple question of why God tells Moses to lie and steal in Exodus, but is not allowed to do again.
@bdplist The only known liar here is you and those like you, who have been caught time and again in your lies, and are unable to present any convincing constant, any untwisted evidence, or a single scrap of unwarped testiment to your accusations, merely the repetitious demand that despite any evidense, answer, or explaination you are given, you will continue to demand and condemn, when it has long been proven that you refuse to address your double standards and hypocrasy.
So once again I pose the question BP, as part of a descussion, in which YOU actually participate rather then demand one thing after another: Why is it ok for God to not only command Moses to not only lie, but steal, as both go against his commandments, in the course of saving his people, but it is not ok for God to do so in the Book of Mormon, also to save his people?
In these verses, God gives tells Moses to Tell Pharoah that the Isrealites only want to go three days' journey to sacrifice, in an attempt to liberate them from slavery, they use that lie, and then in verse 22 he says "But every woman shall borrow of her neighbour, and of her that sojourneth in her house, jewels of silver, and jewels of gold, and raiment: and ye shall put them upon your sons, and upon your daughters; and ye shall spoil the Egyptians" So he also commands them to steal.
Tell me, what is this lie you speak of? So far I do not see any place where we have claimed Jesus to lie, so what are you talking about? LDS believe in the same Jesus of the bible, so I think he does have the power to save, and your argument is rendered invalid.
@bdplist Please, your mistaking lying for decietful reasons with lying for the sake of survival, your double standard would condemn all military members today, people who defend you life and freedom. Apparently you have also forgotten Ex 1 and 3 which not only shows examples of God commanding people to lie, but also to steal from the Eqyptians. Tell us, why can God command his people to lie and steal in the Bible for the sake of the survival of the righteous, but not in the Book of Mormon?
@bdplist Again, you demand answers without answering the question posed to you, as usual. Again I state, answer my question and THEN I will answer yours, this is not a examination, this is a discussion, as such YOU have to be willing to answer the questions posed to you, if not then all you show is what we have known all along, that you only care about your accusations, not about truth.
I will humor you by being 'explicit' about the bilical accounts of God commanding Moses to lie. Ex 3:17-22
As has been witnessed by every person you have conversed with, you are incapable of seeing anything outside your narrowminded viewpoint, continuosly seeking new ammunition that when researched only shows us how much you distort in order to make your claims, wither it be distorting biblical scripture or insiting the non-doctrine or opinions be treated as doctrine, all it adds up to is you being a sad and pathetically obsessed FRAUD.
Yawn again drowning the board in comments when presented with facts that show your fradulent behavior. I presented you with evidence, and as usual, you ignore it completely, so again your cry is 'LDS are wrong, only I am right" the only cry you have. Your inability to listen to others is illistrated thought your comments, a standing tribute to the FRAUD you are. You cannot tell when the Book of Mormon referes to God the Father, or God the Son, nor do you even understand what those terms mean.
"It will further demonstrate that the doctrine of God preached and believed before 1835 was essentially trinitarian, with God the Father seen as an absolute personage of Spirit, Jesus Christ as a personage of tabernacle, and the Holy Ghost as an impersonal spiritual member of the Godhead."
"The Book of Mormon tended to define God as an ABSOLUTE PERSONAGE OF SPIRIT who, clothed in flesh, revealed himself in Jesus Christ (Abinidi's sermon to King Noah in Mosiah chapters 13-14 is a good example). The first issue of the Evening and Morning Star published a similar description of God" SUNSTONE Thomas G. Alexander July-August 1980.
Alexander is an American historian and academic who is professor emeritus from Brigham Young University
No wonder LDS were so CONFUSED about "WHO GOD IS" as the LDS "prophet" Prohesied "GOD IS GOD" LOL
"This work was commenced by the ALMIGHTY it has been carried on by him & sustained by his power & if it is ever consummated it will be by the power & direction and sustenance of the LORD JEHOVAH OF Jesus the mediator of the new covenant & then through the medium of the priesthood here upon the earth"
"Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah Jesus annointed that Prophet and Seer" W. W. Phelps Praise to the Man
"...trusting in the arm of Jehovah THE Eloheim who sits enthroned in the heavens..."
Joseph Smith History of the Church V5 C5
"But may the ALMIGHTY Jehovah shield and defend me from all their power & prolong my days in peace that I may guide His people in righteousness until my head is white with Old Age Amen
Ahah, found the book, it is not even the author who wrote the book, it is a series of articles by various scholars looking into new intrepretations, therefore the theories presented are just that, theories, not fact nor doctrine put forth. As usual, a little research shows your attempts to once agan decieve people here by leaving out the information relevent to your claim. Once again you show us you are a fraud.
@Dyoni1 Now if you could only find ANY printed material from the church saying that there were TWO PERSONAGES anytime before 1836 you could be Famous! And a great champion to other LDS who have been looking for DECADES!
AFA ur other bogus claims
I said what I said look below - DUH!
"Even LDS Agree" & that is what was said by a MORMON not a ANTI - another DUH
FACT STANDS
Mormon says "In the Book of Mormon, God and Jesus Christ are NOT DISTINCT BEINGS"
"O so you believe like Joe that the Father & the Son are the SAME Person since as you say they are "PHYSICALLY One""
Wrong, are you always going to project your own beliefs on others? I am pointing out, as always, the gaping flaws in your accusations, the indisputable fact that whenever you have been given an answer you have asked for, you have ignored it, the fact that you consistantly distort scriptures and quotes and show an ignorance for the scriptures you attempt to mine.
You can attempt to ridicule others in your quest to discredit, you can recycle arguements again and again, you can demand that any who agree with you be consisdered experts while disregaurding credable sources who don't, you can flood the boards with comments whenever you can't handle being proven wrong, and you can scream all you want as if it will magically make people do what you want. Every action you take stands as testiment to what you are: A sad, ignorant, FRUAD.
@bdplist ... You did not read and understand any of the things I wrote. Jesus has become as our father because of the atonement. Your not evading the question? Are you? No, your just evading the answer...
Comment removed
pmoyer50 1 week ago
@pmoyer50
LDS believe Jesus is the Son of God... the only begotten... What standpoint differs?
You are not well versed in JS are you? His marriages are in fact debatable. In fact the only trial that talked about them they were found to not be his wives... I'm assuming you were ignorant of this simple fact... cause anti people quote often from this court case but fail to inform you of the things they do not want you to know... Typical propaganda...
Sk8er408 1 week ago
Comment removed
pmoyer50 1 week ago
@pmoyer50
You are a typical ignorant hater. I'm neither a member or formal member. So i give you a small fact and you reply with brainwashed? LOL Thanks for the laugh... I suggest you do your own research instead of reading someones commentary that has in common with you a hate toward the LDS.
Still waiting on this standpoint that differs between LDS and what the Bible teaches. Or are you only about sowing doubt without facts? ie propaganda.
Sk8er408 1 week ago
Comment removed
pmoyer50 1 week ago
@pmoyer50 I hate to disappoint you but the internet is not always the best source for information about specific religions.
So why do you get all your information for it??? or your youth pastor... FYI... he got all his info form the .net
I'm not against Mitt... but I think he would be a better man then Obama... I like Ron Paul. I just wish he would not be so extreme in his foreign policies.
All politicians are wishy washy... except Ron.
Sk8er408 1 week ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@pmoyer50 I hate to disappoint you but the internet is not always the best source for information about specific religions.
So why do you get all your information for it??? or your youth pastor... FYI... he got all his info form the .net
I'm not against Mitt... but I think he would be a better man then Obama... I like Ron Paul. I just wish he would not be so extreme in his foreign policies.
All politicians are wishy washy... except Ron.
Sk8er408 1 week ago
@pmoyer50
Is that all you got? An ad hominem attack on a typo... You win... I'll submit to your extremely huge noggin.
Sk8er408 1 week ago
Comment removed
pmoyer50 1 week ago
@pmoyer50
You are not into what? Acting a fool and then getting called on it?
Sk8er408 1 week ago
Comment removed
pmoyer50 1 week ago
@pmoyer50
How do LDS discriminate against gays? I'm guessing you are going to point at the Prop 8 they supported. This is not discrimination any more then not letting people practice polygamy.
Your ignorance on their relationship with blacks does not mean it is dubious.
Obama... I bet you were one of those idiots in line waiting for the obama money... am i right? Ever get it?
Sk8er408 1 week ago
@Sk8er408 : Talk to gays and lesbians who were forced out of the LDS church, moron. Mitt Romney sucks and so do you.
pmoyer50 1 week ago
@pmoyer50
Gays aren't forced out. They are accepted. If you want to talk about forced out go see that baptize that claims god hate fags.
I hear your mom sucks.
Sk8er408 1 week ago
Comment removed
pmoyer50 1 week ago
Comment removed
Sk8er408 1 week ago
@Sk8er408 : Wow, and some of your comments get flagged as spam.
pmoyer50 1 week ago
@pmoyer50
Like yours are not?
Sk8er408 1 week ago
@Sk8er408 :
pmoyer50 1 week ago
@pmoyer50
Sk8er408 1 week ago
@Sk8er408 ?
pmoyer50 1 week ago
@pmoyer50 !
pmoyer50 1 week ago
Comment removed
pmoyer50 1 week ago
@pmoyer50
Ok... what is false that JS or Mohammad taught? Forget Mohammad... lets talk about JS. as He is a Christian like i believe you claim to be.
Sk8er408 1 week ago
Comment removed
pmoyer50 1 week ago
Christians are modern day Jews that deny the Samaritans...
Sk8er408 2 months ago
Comment removed
pmoyer50 1 week ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@pmoyer50 That's an erroneous statement if I ever read one.
Why? Because you are a true believer and the Jews weren't? You are justified in your judgment of the LDS and the Jews were not in their judgment of the Samaritans?
Instead of just making a claim back it up. I think you need to read the parable of the Good Samaritan...
Sk8er408 1 week ago
We believe in one God, my goodness!! It's not deceitful, what the crap is wrong with you?!?!?!
FredWeasleysGirl16 3 months ago
Christians want humanity to accept them as sane rational humans!... Sorry its not gonna happen
DieOrBlink 4 months ago
In the 70's we were explicitly told not to refer to as ourselves as Christians; we were superior, we were LDS. Entering a Christian book store was forbidden. Priesthood meetings were sometimes very critical of Christians and Christian churches although we were told to never openly criticize them. The Temple Endowment contained a portion where Christian ministers were portrayed as hirelings of Satan. I guess nowadays obfuscation gains them more converts.
midkanzan 5 months ago
1: Learn the difference between what is doctrine and what is not. 2: Learn how to identify a teaching style versus literal. 3: No examples of it ever being practiced, so you can sensationalize and demand all you want, LDS didn't practice it, meaning the issue is YOUR interpretations. Also actualy read the Doctrine of Salvation rather then a quote mined summery.
Dyoni1 5 months ago
@Dyoni1 Still not sure what you are so upset about. The article I sited has mainly to do with Capital Punishment and that was the context of my question. When my family went through the temple in the 70's the "Penalty of the First, Second and Third Token" were sill included. But as you say, there is no verifiable evidence of it ever being carried out. Thankfully they were removed in April 1990, verified by my in-laws after their last temple work before they left the Church.
midkanzan 5 months ago
@Dyoni1 I never claimed to be an authority on the LDS Church. It's been about 21 years since my wife and I left the church, and about 22 years for the rest of her family. I don't keep up on the continual changes to LDS doctrine, what it presently teaches, or what past teachings it presently denies ever having taught. I don't know the “flowery language” it hides behind now. Only what I was taught as a member which I'm sure has changed as it did during my membership.
midkanzan 5 months ago
@midkanzan Strange how you claim not to be an authority when you keep trying to tell LDS what it is they believe. Obviously you forgot the teachings of LDS of an open cannon of scripture and eternal progression, that is, IF you were ever a member. You show so much ignorance in the doctrine of the church I find it very doubtful. Sounds like someone trying to make a claim just because he is faceless on youtube.
Dyoni1 5 months ago
@Dyoni1 For all your arrogance, condescension and insults, verifying you are probably LDS, you have yet to address any substance other than my lack of using the “current approved obfuscation language.”
midkanzan 5 months ago
@midkanzan You want arrogance, look in the mirror, telling others what they have to believe because you say so. Yiou fail to address any of the facts that poke holes in your accusations, and your only defense for this is to 'pretend it doesn't exist'. Stereotype all you want, lazy critics who can't do their homework have nothing to offer.
Dyoni1 5 months ago
@Dyoni1 The problem with our original discussion as I see it is that we are using the same words but a different lexicon. Salvation for LDS is synonymous with resurrection in that Christ's atonement brings resurrection for all, except the truly wicked. By contrast, salvation in traditional Christianity is a free gift, but must be accepted. It guarantees being with God in his Kingdom after death. Can we use these definitions as a starting point?
midkanzan 5 months ago
@midkanzan Once again trying to tell LDS what they believe and once again getting it wrong.
Dyoni1 5 months ago
@Dyoni1 Do you disagree with these statements? “All men are saved by grace alone without any act on their part, meaning they are resurrected.” (Bruce McConkie, What Mormons Think of Christ, p.28). “There will be a General Salvation for all in the sense in which that term is generally used, but salvation, meaning resurrection, is not exaltation” (Stephen Richards, Contributions of Joseph Smith, p.5) How was my statement any different?
midkanzan 5 months ago
@midkanzan Sigh, the difference is you take a point of view without any attempt to understand LDS perpective, and try to apply to them your own terms of what YOU think LDS believe. You don't attempt to learn what is meant by salvation and exhaultation applying instead your own set of rules without a care for the whole picture that LDS sees, and in doing so you try to cut an paste only the part of the picture that you want to see represent LDS with our own drawings added on rather then the truth.
Dyoni1 5 months ago
@Dyoni1 All I was trying to do was establish a starting point for discussion by defining the word “salvation.” I said nothing about exaltation yet. But it seems if I don't provide you with an exhaustive treatise on LDS theology in the small space provided here you resort to ad hominem.
midkanzan 5 months ago
@midkanzan The problem is that you are trying to define it in your own terms, not LDS. The LDS concept is much more broad and encompasing then what you try to place a definition on, by oversimplyfing it, you leave out points that distort the doctrine, and therefore convey the wrong impression. You define LDS salvation as different from Christianity, when it is the same, but has more detail into the nature of it.
Dyoni1 5 months ago
@midkanzan To simplify, imagine a red box. If Christianity said, this is a red box, LDS would be saying, this is a red box which is this high and this wide. Both are discribing the same box, and neither are wrong, but you are basically saying, because LDS include the measurement, they are not describing the same box. The box does not become different simply because LDS gave a more complex description of it.
Dyoni1 5 months ago
@midkanzan Neither does it become a different box when you change the LDS description to only include the measurement, but you try to make it sound different by sayiing, LDS describe a box this high and this wide, while Christiantiy describes a red box. If you exclude the information given, just to make it sound different, you are the one at fault, not LDS.
Dyoni1 5 months ago
Oh please, there is no evidence that this was ever practiced, any the only way you can jump the conclusion that it was taught is by misrepresenting Brigham Youngs teaching style, as well as ignoring the LDS views on prophets, not to metion showing complete ignorance on doctrinal process. Tell me, is 'sateing it differently' your code for decieving?
Dyoni1 5 months ago
@Dyoni1 I don't understand your reaction to my question. I suggest you read Martin Gardner’s Spring 1979 Dialogue article on “Mormonism and Capital Punishment” He states in part: “Other early Mormon leaders, including Jedediah M. Grant and Herber C. Kimball, both counselors in the First Presidency of the Church, taught the doctrine of blood atonement and all played major roles in implementing the first capital punishment law in Utah.” Also look at Doctrines of Salvation 1:135,138
midkanzan 5 months ago
How can the mormons want to accept them as Christians when they believe something totally different from Christianity? Thats like saying a horse is a dog. No, Christian is a Christian and mormon is a mormon.
gotsumthin2say 5 months ago
@gotsumthin2say Please, tell us what LDS believe the exclude them for Christianity? Perhaps you will make a list of 'requirements to be Christian'? Careful not to exclude all of christianity in your attempt.
Dyoni1 5 months ago
For any Man to decide who is or is not Christian is the ultimate arrogance. Only Christ can decide who is his and who isn't. It's not up to us to decide who is not Christian. Your arrogance is appalling.
imalikconnor 6 months ago
@imalikconnor By "definition" christians are christian by there doctrine alone its not arrogant to define yourself by your personal doctrine, Mormons can't define themselfs as christians because by definition there not, you have to understand the meaning of the word and how christian is defined by its practice and doctrine you go outside of it or beyond it by definition your something else period. Mormon doctrine is failing thats why there using the christian title to deceive converts.
wachnathan 6 months ago
@wachnathan Read the definition of Christian "Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus", so by the definition LDS ARE Christian.No amount of trying to give your own definition will change that.
Dyoni1 5 months ago
@Dyoni1 Only one problem with that one you don't believe in the actual historically reported Yeshua, your Jesus is a northman a blond haired racist a fabrated spin off of the biblical Yeshua. What you don't understand is that i was a mormon once and i understand that the church is only trying to mask themselves as christians so that they can get more converts, now is that what a truthful church would do? The LDS church is a self centered greedy bunch let me tell ya lol
wachnathan 5 months ago
@wachnathan Riiiiiiiiiiiiight, Because Jesus in the Bible magically becaomes someone else to anyone you say, just because. Seriously get over yourself, I've head the 'I was mormon once' thing a hundred times, and never once they ever been able to tell me even the basics of LDS beliefs, tell me are you any different, or are you just another guy with a chip on his shoulder trying to convince the world to believe anything but reality? You can make all the claims you want, they are still Christian.
Dyoni1 5 months ago
@Dyoni1 This is what pisses me off just because an ex-mormon finds out that the doctrine can't be vaildated you "assume" its because of a bad experience and some cases you could be right i don't know. Am not attacking am encouraging my fellow mormons to analyize the doctrine and look at that facts that don't support your book of mormon anyone who says its taboo or evil to question your beliefs is wrong you have full right to know the truth just because the LSD church is big doesn't make it true.
wachnathan 5 months ago
@wachnathan Your not encouraging people to examine, your ecouraging them to assume based on your own assumptions. Whenever someone like you has made a claim, I HAVE gone and looked it up, studied it, and everytime, I find a wealth of information you 'conveniantly' overlook. You take things out of context, expecting others not to investigate, but to take you on your word. The LDS church has encouraged people to study, thus it's high education rates. You encourage ignorance, hoping to fool others.
Dyoni1 5 months ago
What critics do is rely on a number of falacies to try 'win' by manipulation of words. For instance, asking hundreds of question(proof by verbosity) in attempt to ware others down then recycling those questions, even after they are answered. It is interesting to note the shere amount of logical falacies that they come up with in persuit of shouting down truth.
Dyoni1 5 months ago
@Dyoni1 My question is why doesn't the LDS church admit or provide answers regarding the claims in the book of mormon can't be found any where, fact is those claims are there and can't verifed so we have to logically assume the stories are indeed fabracated there is no other exuse the claims are clear cut despite what the apologists say. I know that the church now goes with just feelings that make it true but that is to deceive you from the facts they indeed know there is a problem with BOM.
wachnathan 5 months ago
@wachnathan Riiiight, the fact that precolumbian bees, elephants, gold, metal plates, stone boxes, etc... are found AFTER the coming of the Book of Mormon eans absolutely nothing. That is, it means nothing to a guy who ignores any and all things that shoot down his narrowminded assalts against others. Seriously, get a life.
Dyoni1 5 months ago
I understand that invaidations hurt but its not personal its never personal to challenge a growing theology that isn't supportable and i mean this with respect, by all means i don't wanna be a dick about it every body has the right to be what they want to but the truth is you should have at least justification for it.
wachnathan 5 months ago
@wachnathan Good thing you havn't invalidated anything. Except yourself. Anyone who claims they get to decide who is Christian or not reguardless of the definition gets an automatic fail. LDS are Christian, no amount of self righteous 'dickery' on your part will ever change that.
Dyoni1 5 months ago
Deceitfully crafted? Interesting! Then he never mentions one of the 13. He has presented some of our beliefs very craftily, as though the very mention of them proves they are wrong. I'll take one. We all believe that Jesus is the Son of God, lived a perfect "life", increasing in stature, etc. Was crucified & resurrected & ascended to heaven. But remember, he described THAT body..Touch me! Feel me! I am not a Spirit, but flesh & bone.Christ took on human form & now is a glorified, tangible being
batterdown 7 months ago
To be christian, You must believe in Christ. Know that he is your redeemer. What ticks me off is that people judge mormons. I am a convert to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and i love being a member. Through all my years of going to different churches, I have never felt the holy ghost testify to me so strong of the truth of the gospel. my testimony grows, and I shed tears because of how thankful i am to have found this gospel, It's life changing.
TewaGirl09 7 months ago
@TewaGirl09 "You must believe in Christ." Yes, but which Christ? If I were to name a dog Christ and say I believe in him, would that do? I don't think so. The Mormon organization is pretty good, I'll admit. I was once a member, so I know. But I never knew the real Christ until I came to a personal relationship with Him directly. Not through any "church." Please remember that feelings deceive.
midkanzan 7 months ago
@midkanzan "Yes, but which Christ?" Tell me, if I think Obama is exciting and insiteful, and you think he is boring and dull, does that make him two different Obama's? Certianly not, LDS believe in Jesus of the Bible, just because they have different opinions of him, as every denomination has, does not make him a 'different Jesus" Seriously, the way you put it suggests you don't believe in Jesus as a person at all.
Dyoni1 5 months ago
@Dyoni1 If I accept you as Christian, will you accept me as LDS if they are one in the same as you say?
midkanzan 5 months ago
@midkanzan That depends, do you consider yourself a Lutheran, Angelican, Baptist, Methodist, and Presbyterian as well? All those are also Christian. You try to imply 'one and the same' as if you must be both or neither. You can be LDS which is by nature Christian, just as you can be Lutheran which is Christian, but not LDS, any more then LDS are Lutherans. You do not have to accept me as Christian for me to be so, I believe in Christ and his teachings, therefore I am Christian.
Dyoni1 5 months ago
@Dyoni1 I presently attend a Lutheran Church. I can go to any Christian denomination and be accepted as Christian and saved. With few exceptions the basic doctrines and confession of faith are pretty much the same. But I'm not saved by any church. My salvation is in Christ alone, through His grace, not by any actions of my own. Do you accept that?
midkanzan 5 months ago
@midkanzan "accepted as Christian" You did not say accepted as Baptist, or as Angelican. You DID say accepted as LDS. I can accept you as Christian, but it is different then saying the the terms Christian and LDS are interchangable. It is clear that you are trying to create an issue through word-play rather then a true resolution. As for 'saved' you'll probably be saved reguardless of what church you attend, unless you do something extreme such as murder or genuinely rebel against God knowingly.
Dyoni1 5 months ago
If you had truely studied and learned as an LDS member, you would know that LDS do not condemn other churches simply because of theological differences, believing that all churches have truth in them, and that we can learn from that. I can appreaciate the Koran as much as the principles of buddhism, as each contains something I can learn from. From your statements so far, you seem a bit too eagar to create a conflict rather then learn about a belief.
Dyoni1 5 months ago
@Dyoni1 In Biblical Christianity, “saved” means one has accepted the free gift of grace given by Christ paying the penalty (death) of our sin and is trying to (albeit imperfectly) follow His example. The Kingdom of God awaits us after death, not by our own actions but by the action of Christ. In LDS theology Christ's sacrifice is insufficient for one to enter the upper two “kingdoms.” One must earn their own way through the LDS Church. This is but one of the many differences.
midkanzan 5 months ago
@midkanzan So you believe a murderer is automatically saved reguardless of weither he atones or not? You fail to apply all the teachings of Jesus, and indeed, you have misrepresented LDS beliefs. LDS teach there are two deaths, physical death, which by Christ's sacrifice is overcome, which all recieve, then there is the death of the spirit, by which requires our own participation, namely refraining from sin and sincerly repeating when we inevitably do, in which Christ forgives us of our sins.
Dyoni1 5 months ago
You also have misrepresented the 3 kingdoms, and mixed it up with the concept of exhaltation. Seriously, you show us that you know less and less about LDS then you claim, and sound more like someone who skimmed through a book without bothering to study it in detail. I ask you, why do you expect to be taken seriously when it is obvious you don't kow about LDS?
Dyoni1 5 months ago
@Dyoni1 No one is “automatically” saved. Repentance is conscious decision. I'm curious though, when you say one “atones” for ones sins, are you referring to blood atonement as taught by Brigham Young, et al? I don't think I misrepresented LDS doctrine, I just stated it differently than you did. Aren't the temple endowments still necessary to reach the Celestial Kingdom and godhood? They certainly were when I was a member in the 70's, although they've changed dramatically since.
midkanzan 5 months ago
@TewaGirl09 The Bible warns about trusting feelings..."the heart is deceitfully wicked above all things, who can know it?" We are told to test all things and in Deuteronomy it shows us how to test "prophets". If even one prophecy does not come to pass, that person is not a prophet of God. Joseph Smith has had many false prophecies. I was raised LDS, I urge you to study the book of John to begin with. Study the epistles, read all the warnings about false Christs and false doctrines.
jeanniem76 6 months ago
@jeanniem76 Yeah, try applying the Deuteronomy test to biblical prophets by the same standards you push on modern prophets. I always find those who do so equally condemn those they accept as prophets in the bible. Interestingly enough, it also condemns the angel of the lord that spoke to Samsons mother if we hold by those same standards. The problem is usually that the critic does not apply tendancies in prophecies, prefering to make a double standard.
Dyoni1 5 months ago
I don't agree with this video at all! I'm a convert to the LDS church since 1981 and can't imagine being in any other church. We are more Christian than any other church! I know there are alot of misconceptions about Mormons, and misunderstood Bible verses, etc. I read all this stuff when I was first investigating the church. But I took time to learn the truth. Mormons are Christians! I wouldn't have joined the church otherwise.
cindybin2001 7 months ago
The coming struggle is not between Mormons, or catholics. or Protestants. It will be between the non-muslim world and the rest of the world. When a muslim puts a gun to my head and tells me to convert or die, will I stand my ground and die for my beliefs or convert? Will you convert to Islam or die? There will be no third choice. You either convert or die.WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SGTRVN1 7 months ago
holy crap (no pun intened) i dont care what you call me first off. second if god is perfect it doesnt matter what someone belives as long as they try there hardest to live life the way they think they should they will be rewareded if they are taught one way and to the oposite than they will be punished. Why does all the spacific docteren matter? your making it way to complex!
creamsodafox 7 months ago
Part 3: The devout Mormon believes this text is inspired because Joseph Smith said it is. He believes Smith had the authority to claim divine inspiration for the Book of Mormon because the book itself says Smith was a prophet and had such authority.
54v115 8 months ago
PArt 2: The problem is that these exact same errors show up in the Book of Mormon (BOM). It seems reasonable to assume that since Smith was a prophet of God and was translating the BOM under divine inspiration, he would have known about the errors found in the KJV and would have corrected them for when passages from the KJV appeared in the BOM. But the errors went in.
54v115 8 months ago
Part 1: The only Bible that Jo Smith relied on was the King James Version (KJV). This translation was based on a good but imperfect set of Greek and Hebrew manuscripts of the Bible. Scholars now know the Textus Receptus contains errors, which means the KJV contains errors.
54v115 8 months ago
If the Book of Mormon contains all the ordinances and principles that pertain to the gospel, why don’t Mormonism’s esoteric doctrines show up in it? The doctrine that God is nothing more than an "exalted man with a body of flesh and bones" appears nowhere in the Book of Mormon. Nor does the doctrine of Jesus Christ being the "spirit brother" of Lucifer.
54v115 8 months ago
Hence the name... The church of JESUS CHRIST of latter day saints.
PeaceLoveCheerVball7 9 months ago
I must of missed that in the Bible @PeaceLoveCheerVball7 just change your name to "Jesus Christ" makes you a Christian. Where is that in the Bible?
rickgigliotti 8 months ago
@rickgigliotti And you are so ignorant. What the crap is wrong with us? Why you hating?
FredWeasleysGirl16 3 months ago
Mormons are Christians dumbfucks. Do your damn research.
Brittanyann14 9 months ago
@Brittanyann14 We did our research that's why we're saying they're not Christians. They believe that God was once a mortal man like us and that we can also become Gods. Unless you're totally stupid you'll realise that we Christians do not believe such heresy. Get over it.
macnos 8 months ago
@macnos Mormon's do not believe God was once a mortal man....Where is everybody getting their information from?
toollover95 8 months ago
@toollover95 "As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become." Lorenzo Snow, 5th LDS President, June, 1840.
macnos 8 months ago
@toollover95 When I was a Mormon. I was taught that the LDS god was once a man. “We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see. ... It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the Character of God, ... that he was once a man like us; yea, that God the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp.345-346.) Please learn more about your church.
midkanzan 7 months ago
Hello crackpots.
wiccanmoonman 9 months ago
"Biblical doctrine of the trinity" The trinity isn't a biblical doctrine. Yes, we're Christians. If you have a problem with it get over it. I find it ironic that this guy quoted Abraham Lincoln since Lincoln actually fulfilled a prophecy given by Joseph Smith. Yes, our doctrines are biblical.
majinish 9 months ago
Alan Cairns, you're making life too complicated for yourself. Mormons, i.e., members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, believe in Jesus Christ, the very same Jesus of the Bible. Get over it. I'm a Mormon; I know what we believe. You, on the other hand, have done very little research to know what you are talking about. Christians come in many varieties; who gave you the authority to declare whose Christians and who is not? You're a mere mortal! You're not a god!
DrTerminus 9 months ago
@DrTerminus Agreed. I find it funny how Everybody is doing very little research, instead of just asking us Mormon's, Who attend Sacrament every sunday. It's Ridiculous.
toollover95 8 months ago
This man is making up stories and deceptively dictating himself to be an absolute bearer of truth. However, the truth is he is only a man and a human being so he himself is not is perfect. Be thou weary of those with such pride in their hearts.
OtakuDeju 9 months ago
The bible is a book of lies lol so stop crying, mormons are followers of christ, thus christians....
SpecterWSA 9 months ago
The Book of Mormon is a Satanic Trap. It looks Biblical because Joseph Smith plagiarized 25 chapters many verses and many of the accounts given in the Bible into the Book of Mormon, while trying to make them bigger and more dramatic. 2 Nephi 33:5 tells you that no man will be angry with the words in the Book of Mormon except he shall be of the spirit of the devil A Brainwashing trap for those who start to believe this book of lies.
carterfamily8903 10 months ago
Mormons are christions you can say no all you want thats why we got the name of the savior on the church but people will always judge just like they have since long time all go but God bless all. peace
1bakers3 10 months ago
@1bak
Mormons r Latter Day Saints
They are NOT Christians
Here is just one Major difference that goes right to the ESSENCE!
LDS declare their OWN WORTHYness
"Ponder your personal worthiness to use the sacred authority you hold" Richard G. Scott, "Honor the Priesthood and Use It Well," ENSIGN, Nov. 2008, 45
CHRISTIANS declare the worthyness and RIGHTEOUSNESS of Christ!
HOLY BIBLE Romans 3 "declare HIS righteousness for the remission of sins"
bdplist 10 months ago
If Mormons want to become Christians, there is good news! You still can be!
Repent from lies of Mormonism and accept/follow the True God of the Bible...
rickgigliotti 10 months ago
@rickgigliotti see this is something i never understood, Somehow out of the 10,000 different gods that mankind has conjured out of thin air, How can 9,999 of them be totally fake, but yours be real. Either invisible holy babysitters exist or they do not, how can one be real and all others be false. So let me get this right... your god is real, all other humans are brainwashed cult members, you and your little club all get to go to some afterparty in the sky and everyone else gets to burn? pfft
HackNinja420 10 months ago
@rickgigliotti amen!
momoyomolly 9 months ago
Still Waiting BP, why suddenly so silent, is it due to the fact that you cannot come up with a convincing lie to explain why you allow God to command someone to lie in one case but not another?
Dyoni1 11 months ago
As we can see, the usual tactic of BP when faced with a question he can't answer, scream and tantrum and try to change the subject with faulty spam claims, truely pathetic.
Dyoni1 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Matthew 7:15 BEWARE of false prophets!
IDOLATRY of the so called LDS "prophets"
ADAM is heavenly father & our God
Adam CONCEIVED JESUS WITH THE VIRGIN MARY
ADAM fathered our spirits in heaven
ADAM God was REVEALED from God & is DOCTRINE so said the "prophet"
ADAM brought "ONE of his WIVES" here with him
ADAM was sealed to MARY
ADAM was a resurrected being when he came to the garden
bdplist 11 months ago
Right, you should really move away from your repetitious demands and actually answer a single question, like, why is God allowed to clearly command Moses to lie, as he does thoughout Exodus, but is not allowed to command others to? Still waiting.
In your own words "ANSWER________" LOL
Dyoni1 11 months ago
MT 6:7 use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
bdplist 11 months ago
Every Scripture points to Moses lieing to Pharoah again and again, that they go into the wilderness and sacrifice, not leave the land completely, every scripture supports everything I have said, and you continue to pretend that it does not exist. You have not read the scriptures, you do not harken untothem, you merely pick though it for ammunition, but pay no attention to what the people are doing. Let me guess, you watched "The Prince of Eqypt" and decided that was the true version?
Dyoni1 11 months ago
31¶And he called for Moses and Aaron by night, and said, Rise up, and get you aforth from among my people, both ye and the children of Israel; and go, serve the Lord, as ye have said. 32Also take your flocks and your herds, as ye have said, and be gone; and bless me also.
Ex 12:31-32
Let's see, sounds to me like Pharoah thinks they are going three days into the wilderness to sacrifice. Now what was it that I said? Oh yes, the exact same thing. Still waiting...
Dyoni1 11 months ago
24¶And Pharaoh called unto Moses, and said, Go ye, serve the Lord; only let your flocks and your herds abe stayed: let your little ones also go with you. 25And Moses said, Thou must agive us also sacrifices and burnt offerings, that we may sacrifice unto the Lord our God.
-Ex 10:24-25 26Our cattle also shall go with us; there shall not an hoof be left behind; for thereof must we take to serve the Lord our God; and we know not with what we must serve the Lord, until we come thither.
Dyoni1 11 months ago
28And Pharaoh said, I will let you go, that ye may sacrifice to the Lord your God in the wilderness; only ye shall not go very far away: intreat for me. 29And Moses said, Behold, I go out from thee, and I will intreat the Lord that the swarms of flies may depart from Pharaoh, from his servants, and from his people, to morrow: but let not Pharaoh deal deceitfully any more in not letting the people go to sacrifice to the Lord.
Exodus 8:25-29
Dyoni1 11 months ago
25¶And Pharaoh called for Moses and for Aaron, and said, Go ye, sacrifice to your God in the land. 26And Moses said, It ais not meet so to do; for we shall sacrifice bthe abomination of the Egyptians to the Lord our God: lo, shall we sacrifice the abomination of the Egyptians before their eyes, and will they not stone us? 27We will go three days’ journey into the wilderness, and sacrifice to the Lord our God, as he shall command us.
Dyoni1 11 months ago
8Then Pharaoh called for Moses and Aaron, and said, Intreat the Lord, that he may take away the frogs from me, and from my people; and I will let the people go, that they may do sacrifice unto the Lord.
Exodus 8:8
Dyoni1 11 months ago
16And thou shalt say unto him, The Lord aGod of the Hebrews hath sent me unto thee, saying, Let my people go, that they may bserve me in the wilderness: and, behold, hitherto thou wouldest not hear.
Exodus 7:16
1And the Lord spake unto Moses, Go unto Pharaoh, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord, Let my people go, that they may aserve me.
Exodus 8:1
Dyoni1 11 months ago
3And they said, The aGod of the Hebrews hath met with us: let us go, we pray thee, three days’ journey into the desert, and sacrifice unto the Lord our God; lest he fall upon us with pestilence, or with the sword.
-Exodus 5:3
Right, I'm lieing, that's why Moses said exactly as I said. Maybe you should actuallyread the scriptures instead of demanding that they be ignored for your own twisted intrepretations.
Dyoni1 11 months ago
Maybe you should address your double standards rather then try and pretend they don't exist.
18And they shall hearken to thy voice: and thou shalt come, thou and the elders of Israel, unto the king of Egypt, and ye shall say unto him, The Lord God of the Hebrews hath met with us: and now let us go, we beseech thee, three days’ journey into the wilderness, that we may sacrifice to the Lord our God.
Still waiting on why God can command Moses to lie but no other.
Dyoni1 11 months ago
6And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.7He that overcometh shall inherit call things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Dyoni1 11 months ago
11He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.12And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Dyoni1 11 months ago
42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.43Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Dyoni1 11 months ago
2 Thessalonians 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
bdplist 11 months ago
U Think the True God is a LIAR like you. SHAME!
PS 50
These things hast thou done, and I kept silence; thou thoughtest that I was altogether such an one as thyself: but I will reprove thee, and set them in order before thine eyes.
Now consider this, ye that forget God, lest I tear you in pieces, and there be none to deliver.
bdplist 11 months ago
LDS LOVE LIES
Hate Truth!
1 JN 2:21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
bdplist 11 months ago
U are to be OUTSIDE the Kingdom
Revelation 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever LOVETH and maketh a LIE.
Revelation 21:27 And there shall in NO WISE enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
bdplist 11 months ago
You continuously show us your attempts to control and decided what God will or will not do, as if you think you own God, just as you think you have authority to demand what LDS believe. You are puffed up in pride and self righteousness, a schemer and a deceiver, proven so upon countless times of being caught in your lies, and continuing to insist that by your hand God's will is decided. I pray for your soul, for one day you will have to go before Him and will know of your deeds.
Dyoni1 11 months ago
God commanded Moses to Lie and the people to steal, and you will continue to insist that the words which God commanded Moses to use were not spoken. According to you that would mean Moses disobeyed the Lord, and thus you make Moses a 'false prophet' by your own standard. As usual all you show us is your own double standards and hypocrasy. You pick and choose what scriptures you will listen to and deny the rest. If anyone is false here, it is you.
Dyoni1 11 months ago
...his slaves to go free after a mass murder in his kingdom? No, he was doing what he thought he had to do to appease the isralite God and stop the plagues, God had told Moses to lie, so Pharoah would be more willing to let them go, thinking he would be getting his slaves back, and then clearly shows outrage when he is told they are fleeing, the Bible says that the Egyptians LENT, not gave, thus by borrowing with no intention of returning, they stole.
Dyoni1 11 months ago
Ex 10:28 And Pharaoh said unto him, Get thee from me, take heed to thyself, see my face NO MORE; for in that day thou seest my face thou shalt die.
29 And Moses said, Thou hast spoken well, I will see thy face again NO MORE.
NO MORE - see ya - hasta la vista baby - Hit the road jack & dontyacome back
ROTFL u are a BIBLE DUD a bible dropout
bdplist 11 months ago
You are clueless since you have never read the Bible
Ex 3 they were going on 3 days journey
Moses asked pharoah multiple times in multiple chapters over multiple days and Paharoah would not let them go
God sent plague after plague and by the time we reach Ex chapter TEN there is NO PRETENSE of any RETURN DUH!
10:28 "And Pharaoh said unto him, GET thee from me, take heed to thyself, SEE MY FACE NO MORE"
DOH! DUH! you should read the book before you make more of a FOOL outa urself!
bdplist 11 months ago
@bdplist You should really inspect more closely and stop treating the Bible like a fairy tale. You act as if Pharoah and Moses are just fictional, not subject to humanity, Pharoah taked to MOSES, he let Moses take the people and told HIM, never to see him again, as he was giving him the thing he had demanded, the three days journey to sacrifice he was telling Moses to never come to him again. His entire kingdom was built on slaves, realistically, do you think that he would just allow...
Dyoni1 11 months ago
@Dyoni1
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
bdplist 11 months ago
Ex 14:5 And it was told the king of Egypt that the people fled: and the heart of Pharaoh and of his servants was turned against the people, and they said, Why have we done this, that we have let Israel go from serving us?
Riiiight, absolutely no expectation of return. Moses lied to Pharoah, and after plague and ruin agreed to allow the Isrelites to go three days to sacrifice, and when he saw they were fleeing went after them. Again, why is it ok for God to command Moses to lie, but no other?
Dyoni1 11 months ago
@Dyoni1 DUH they let them go said so in your quote stop beating your dead horse
Go worship your LYING god
bdplist 11 months ago
By the end of the Encounter there was clearly NO EXPECTATION that the Jews would return. DUH!
bdplist 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Ex 12:33 And the Egyptians were urgent upon the people, that they might send them out of the land in haste; for they said, We be all dead men.
bdplist 11 months ago
This make me laugh ! I'm sorry but we don't need you approve to be Christians hahahaha who are you? you don't own Christ to approve or not who to be a christian,
this is funny! learn how to be humble mister who ever is speaking.
ivansud76 11 months ago
Last time I checked 'lent' means 'borrow', and when you 'borrow' with no intention of returning it is called 'stealing', You are trying to excuse without addressing the fact, God commended Moses to lie to Pharoah and to 'borrow' with no intention of returning (stealing), in order to intentionally 'spoil' (loot) the Eqyptians. Again this is clearly God commanding his people to lie and steal in the bible, so why is it ok for him to do this here and not in the Book of Mormon?
Dyoni1 11 months ago
@Dyoni1 Maybe you should read the TEXT
bdplist 11 months ago
@bdplist Mabe you should. You are doing nothing but demanding that all other scriptures be ignored. I am still waiting for you to answer the question instead of trying to construct reasons not to. Reguardless fo how the eqyptians felt, God told Moses to lie to Pharoah to convince them to let them go under the impression that they would be back in three days. The Eqyptians LENT their gold and silver, while the lord God commanded the 'borrow' specifically to SPOIL the Eqyptians.
Dyoni1 11 months ago
@Dyoni1 You have not posted ANY scripture just your false notions & opinions
bdplist 11 months ago
@bdplist Riiiiigght, which is why exodus scriptures are clearly seen posted for all to see. Your pathetic attempts to deny the evidence and scripture placed plainly before you only reenforces the fact that you are a fraud unable to accept anything, unable to answer anything, and unable to grasp anything other then his own delusions and deceptions. You can't and won't answer the simple question of why God tells Moses to lie and steal in Exodus, but is not allowed to do again.
Dyoni1 11 months ago
@Dyoni1 Since you serve a known LIAR how do you know you can trust anything your LYING god says?
bdplist 11 months ago
@bdplist The only known liar here is you and those like you, who have been caught time and again in your lies, and are unable to present any convincing constant, any untwisted evidence, or a single scrap of unwarped testiment to your accusations, merely the repetitious demand that despite any evidense, answer, or explaination you are given, you will continue to demand and condemn, when it has long been proven that you refuse to address your double standards and hypocrasy.
Dyoni1 11 months ago
So once again I pose the question BP, as part of a descussion, in which YOU actually participate rather then demand one thing after another: Why is it ok for God to not only command Moses to not only lie, but steal, as both go against his commandments, in the course of saving his people, but it is not ok for God to do so in the Book of Mormon, also to save his people?
Dyoni1 11 months ago
In these verses, God gives tells Moses to Tell Pharoah that the Isrealites only want to go three days' journey to sacrifice, in an attempt to liberate them from slavery, they use that lie, and then in verse 22 he says "But every woman shall borrow of her neighbour, and of her that sojourneth in her house, jewels of silver, and jewels of gold, and raiment: and ye shall put them upon your sons, and upon your daughters; and ye shall spoil the Egyptians" So he also commands them to steal.
Dyoni1 11 months ago
@Dyoni1 SILLY READ the TEXT
After many days and many plagues the egyptians were "urgent" to send the Hebrew Slaves "OUT OF THE LAND with haste"
Ex 12:33 And the Egyptians were urgent upon the people, that they might send them out of the land in haste; for they said, We be all dead men.
SO they ASKED & the Egyptians gave vs33-36
LORD gave the people favor in the sight of the Egyptians, so that they lent unto them such things as they required. And they spoiled the Egyptians.
bdplist 11 months ago
Tell me, what is this lie you speak of? So far I do not see any place where we have claimed Jesus to lie, so what are you talking about? LDS believe in the same Jesus of the bible, so I think he does have the power to save, and your argument is rendered invalid.
Dyoni1 11 months ago
@Dyoni1 Why did God encourage Abraham & Sarah to lie in Abraham 2:24?
Isn’t lying a sin & doesnt the 10 commandments apply to LDS?
Why did God tell Abraham and Sarah to lie when 2 Nephi 9:34 condemns liars to hell?
ANS_______
bdplist 11 months ago
@bdplist Please, your mistaking lying for decietful reasons with lying for the sake of survival, your double standard would condemn all military members today, people who defend you life and freedom. Apparently you have also forgotten Ex 1 and 3 which not only shows examples of God commanding people to lie, but also to steal from the Eqyptians. Tell us, why can God command his people to lie and steal in the Bible for the sake of the survival of the righteous, but not in the Book of Mormon?
Dyoni1 11 months ago
@Dyoni1 OK so LYING is OK depending on the result?
Isnt that called "Situation ETHICS"
So how do I know your NOT LYING about MormonISM for the SAKE of its "Survival"?
ANS______
You'll have to be explicit with your claim that God commanded people to LIE Ex 1 & 3
Your god is a LIAR!
bdplist 11 months ago
@bdplist Again, you demand answers without answering the question posed to you, as usual. Again I state, answer my question and THEN I will answer yours, this is not a examination, this is a discussion, as such YOU have to be willing to answer the questions posed to you, if not then all you show is what we have known all along, that you only care about your accusations, not about truth.
I will humor you by being 'explicit' about the bilical accounts of God commanding Moses to lie. Ex 3:17-22
Dyoni1 11 months ago
As has been witnessed by every person you have conversed with, you are incapable of seeing anything outside your narrowminded viewpoint, continuosly seeking new ammunition that when researched only shows us how much you distort in order to make your claims, wither it be distorting biblical scripture or insiting the non-doctrine or opinions be treated as doctrine, all it adds up to is you being a sad and pathetically obsessed FRAUD.
Dyoni1 11 months ago
Yawn again drowning the board in comments when presented with facts that show your fradulent behavior. I presented you with evidence, and as usual, you ignore it completely, so again your cry is 'LDS are wrong, only I am right" the only cry you have. Your inability to listen to others is illistrated thought your comments, a standing tribute to the FRAUD you are. You cannot tell when the Book of Mormon referes to God the Father, or God the Son, nor do you even understand what those terms mean.
Dyoni1 11 months ago
WHAT DID THIS LDS PROFESSOR SAY?
"It will further demonstrate that the doctrine of God preached and believed before 1835 was essentially trinitarian, with God the Father seen as an absolute personage of Spirit, Jesus Christ as a personage of tabernacle, and the Holy Ghost as an impersonal spiritual member of the Godhead."
Sunstone Thomas G. Alexander July-August 1980
bdplist 11 months ago
"The Book of Mormon tended to define God as an ABSOLUTE PERSONAGE OF SPIRIT who, clothed in flesh, revealed himself in Jesus Christ (Abinidi's sermon to King Noah in Mosiah chapters 13-14 is a good example). The first issue of the Evening and Morning Star published a similar description of God" SUNSTONE Thomas G. Alexander July-August 1980.
Alexander is an American historian and academic who is professor emeritus from Brigham Young University
bdplist 11 months ago
THE JEHOVAH OF JESUS
No wonder LDS were so CONFUSED about "WHO GOD IS" as the LDS "prophet" Prohesied "GOD IS GOD" LOL
"This work was commenced by the ALMIGHTY it has been carried on by him & sustained by his power & if it is ever consummated it will be by the power & direction and sustenance of the LORD JEHOVAH OF Jesus the mediator of the new covenant & then through the medium of the priesthood here upon the earth"
John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, 24:227, 1884.
bdplist 11 months ago
LDS FATHER JEHOVAH!
"Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah Jesus annointed that Prophet and Seer" W. W. Phelps Praise to the Man
"...trusting in the arm of Jehovah THE Eloheim who sits enthroned in the heavens..."
Joseph Smith History of the Church V5 C5
"But may the ALMIGHTY Jehovah shield and defend me from all their power & prolong my days in peace that I may guide His people in righteousness until my head is white with Old Age Amen
Joseph Smith History of the Church V5 C9
bdplist 11 months ago
Perhaps this is WHY Joe called Heavenly Father "Jehovah Elohim" thru the 1830's
LDS try to cover up or Obscure all the ERRORS of past so called Prophets
FACTS are stubborn things MormoISM is much more PLIABLE
CTR TRUST JESUS!
bdplist 11 months ago
"In the Book of Mormon, God and Jesus Christ are NOT DISTINCT BEINGS"
Joe was a MODALIST thruout the 1830's!
bdplist 11 months ago
Ahah, found the book, it is not even the author who wrote the book, it is a series of articles by various scholars looking into new intrepretations, therefore the theories presented are just that, theories, not fact nor doctrine put forth. As usual, a little research shows your attempts to once agan decieve people here by leaving out the information relevent to your claim. Once again you show us you are a fraud.
Dyoni1 11 months ago
@Dyoni1 Now if you could only find ANY printed material from the church saying that there were TWO PERSONAGES anytime before 1836 you could be Famous! And a great champion to other LDS who have been looking for DECADES!
AFA ur other bogus claims
I said what I said look below - DUH!
"Even LDS Agree" & that is what was said by a MORMON not a ANTI - another DUH
FACT STANDS
Mormon says "In the Book of Mormon, God and Jesus Christ are NOT DISTINCT BEINGS"
bdplist 11 months ago
NOT only does the BoM say there is ONE personage that appears in TWO MODES - Father & Son but so does the Joseph Smith Translation
Can you identify ANY written material of the period 1820-1836 that identifies TWO PERSONAGES
PLEAZE dont give me the First vision PUBLISHED in 1842 that purports to report on events of of 1820
SHOW ME the EVIDENCE of ANY printed material identifying TWO SEPARATE PERSONAGES!
bdplist 11 months ago
The Joseph Smith translation of Luke 10 says
"All things are delivered to me of my Father; and no man knoweth that the Son is the Father, and the Father is the Son"
"Teach them that redemption cometh through CHRIST THE LORD, WHO IS THE VERY ETERNAL FATHER. Amen" Mosiah 16:15
bdplist 11 months ago
What is a FRUad?
Is it RCRSN #9?
bdplist 11 months ago
"O so you believe like Joe that the Father & the Son are the SAME Person since as you say they are "PHYSICALLY One""
Wrong, are you always going to project your own beliefs on others? I am pointing out, as always, the gaping flaws in your accusations, the indisputable fact that whenever you have been given an answer you have asked for, you have ignored it, the fact that you consistantly distort scriptures and quotes and show an ignorance for the scriptures you attempt to mine.
Dyoni1 11 months ago
You can attempt to ridicule others in your quest to discredit, you can recycle arguements again and again, you can demand that any who agree with you be consisdered experts while disregaurding credable sources who don't, you can flood the boards with comments whenever you can't handle being proven wrong, and you can scream all you want as if it will magically make people do what you want. Every action you take stands as testiment to what you are: A sad, ignorant, FRUAD.
Dyoni1 11 months ago
@Dyoni1 That would be a #4! LOL
bdplist 11 months ago
Mosiah 16:15 declares that Jesus is the Father: "Teach them that redemption cometh through Christ the Lord, WHO IS the very Eternal Father"
bdplist 11 months ago
@bdplist ... You did not read and understand any of the things I wrote. Jesus has become as our father because of the atonement. Your not evading the question? Are you? No, your just evading the answer...
CTR831 11 months ago