If something is so complex that it must require a designer (which I understand is the basic tenet of ID), and the example of, say, DNA is used to make the point, then there must also exist something so simple that it DOESN`T require a designer. If there isn`t such simplicity, then the word complex has no meaning, because everything then is complex, and therefore everything requires a designer. It`s circular.
So, challenge: Give an example of such simplicity.
well put...I will also add that facts do not care what we believe or dis believe..changes nothing and no one can prove anything ...some clues however sud jest a possible explanation..
Why do people always have to be so venomous towards those who believe differently? We need to respect each others' views. Resorting to name calling and insults only fuels flames. If someone wants to believe in the Big Bang, more power to them. If someone wants to believe in a Supreme Being, same thing. We can learn a lot from each other if we can communicate affably instead of jumping down throats at the first mention of "wrong" idea.
most people need a religious explanation to feel their life has meaning and purpose.. I believe we are insignificant,and that all religions are a form of control..I believe in science,science should be the search for the truth no matter where it takes us...the truth is we are microscopic in the universe around us,the other truth is,all lifeforms as we know it is dna based,and dna is information...information show desire/intent which only comes from a mind
oceans of oil and coal are everywhere..broken down from biological lifeforms,indeed lifeforms that were here before all fossil records.. one thing is for sure dna is a blue print and biological mechanisms read the blueprint then construct it ...a mind created this...unless science can prove otherwise this is the only logical explanation
you people always make assumptions of what creationists believe,not all of us believe the same things,I believe very different then what the typical creationists believe...I do not blindly believe in the bible or that I was created in the image of the almighty-I stand on one simple logical principle-information is only created by a mind,whatever that entails dna is a blueprint for all life ,religious believes have nothing to do with facts-past life was here b4 us...this is a fact
i'm really interested to hear that creationists (who seem to think the world is just a few thousand years old) simultaneously believe in fossils of "modern" humans that are a few billion years old. Ooops. Moving to the vid. The thesis seems to be; You need DNA to self replicate so you have to have DNA before replication. If you want to say this is true, you have to first show replication can only occur through DNA and that, my friends, is plain wrong. Your argument is dead.
Whatever is impressive about language is subsumed by the CAPACITY FOR LANGUAGE. We agree languages require intelligence:HOW MUCH MORE DOES THE CAPACITY FOR LANGUAGE require design?
I'm stunned by creative linguistic constructs of children (and adults!). I ask, "Where did she hear that??" but realize: SHE JUST MADE IT UP!
If language is born of intelligence, the designed capacity for language is doubly so.
WhatisProof . com ~ GodsGamble . com ~ TheGuy . com
@DwyerStenquist Not only does DNA, in every way, function as a system to contain blueprints for all life in its distinctive language efficient enough to trump every human language and information system, it expresses the ideas of its language in ways that allowed you to question and deny it.
DNA owns you, it made you, it determined who you are. That's one expressive language. If God had a language, DNA would be it - a language of LIFE.
There exist numerous plausible hypotheses (e.g. RNA-world) which do not require protein assemblage as precursing abiogenesis. Ribozymes self-replicate just fine without DNA or proteins. Explain why ID is needed for that.
What is your fixation with the DNA "code"? Do you even know what it refers to?
Natural selection doesn't claim to explain the origin of life. It doesn't try to, it explains evolution. But this isn't proof of god. Its amazing to me how intellectually dishonest the fundamentalist christians are.
@DwyerStenquist you have zero proof to support that statement-and none of you,and I do mean none of you,can explain where the information comes from-
d.n.a. is a blueprint for life -kills you that things like coded instructions come from an intelligence, there's no way you can prove otherwise,so instead of making an argument based on knowledge and fact on how coded information comes from say a rock or other non living things...you attack the messenger,not the message-pathetic..
@Reaper2020 The burden of proof isn't on dwyer. It's on you. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. So far all that has been provided is a conjecture.
@DwyerStenquist if you really believe their is no intelligence cause behind all aspects of science then you really are contradicting all that is science.
"we don't know the origin... ah... it must be a creator, because never before in our human history have we learned something that earlier generations could not understand or didn't already know"
lol everyone should kno that this "information" or "dna" itself has no true origin, because everything is dna, go eat a rock, your cells will transform this into dna, if mass exist then it needs not a mind to produce dna, for dna is an energy reserved in mass because mass is energy....
Mind is the indescribable magic constant of the cosmos - Walden
Life is in and of all things from the beginning, always and forever. Life is eternal. Life is in inorganic as well as all organic matter. Life is in and of all of the elements and the atoms of the elements and the compounds of the elements. Life is merely the registration, in matter, of states of motion of thinking Mind. - from "The Universal One", 1926, Walter Russell
More on this here: wikicompany. org/wiki/911:Cosmic_mind_fractal
The books "DMT The Spirit Molecule" and "The Cosmic Serpent" give a good idea just how deep the aspect of Mind is interwoven in what we call objective reality. Science is but one way of looking at reality. 'Going into Mind' with your mind - as the shamans do - is another, both methods are valid and complementary.
DNA is NOT made of proteins. DNA, among many functions, serves as the template for protein synthesis.
Intelligent Design cannot be called a theory until it has accumulated continuous facts which have suffered through research and peer review. Theory trumps fact because it is built on fact.
So did the ID "theory" arise when somebody observed a little bearded man in a microscope, moving around sugar bases proclaiming "yeah, that aughta do it!".
yeah yeah,,,does that apply to all biological life on earth to? all life has D.N.A. all D.N.A. is coded with specific instructions, all life with a D.N.A. blue print,and it all happened by chance over billions of years? that requires more faith then believing in God,the mathematical probability is absolutely impossible to calculate,its not even close to a fact,and you should stop presenting it like it is
You really are a complete idiot who spouts creationist drivel.
The mathematical probability of the end-product of billions of years of evolution arising spontaneously is infinitely small. That's not how evolution works. And if you don't know, or understand that, you're just talking crap whenever you discuss it.
@Reaper2020 Argh people like u are just so fucking stupid.Listen to this: NO ONE HAS "FAITH" IN ABIOGENISIS. Do you understand what I'm saying?
Some people believe it happened; that it's the best explatation so far but no one, NO ONE believes that it's an unassailable fact which requires no further evidence. NO ONE HAS "FAITH" IN ABIOGENISIS.
If it was SCIENTIFICALLY DISPROVEN (there is no peer-reviwed research which concludes abiogenisis impossible) then we'd say "back to the drawing board"
but it is encoded,and never said its a "language" read what I said..."DNA has a four-letter alphabet, and structures very similar to words, sentences and paragraphs. With very precise instructions." bio mechanical operatives carry out the instructions...who wrote those instructions? {adenine thymine cytosine guanine} which are arranged in a way that leaves a blue print from everything from the color of your eyes to what gender you will be.
not everything that has an answer has to be a complex answer...are you as good at answering questions as you are asking them? like languages, and coded
information ONLY come from a mind. A mind that agrees on an alphabet and a meaning of words and sentences. A mind that expresses both desire and intent.-do you have an example for messages and coded information coming from something other then a mind?
When I look at depth-soundings of a lake I am impressed how precisely the water fits the lake-bottom. If I flash-chill the water to ice and remove it, I note that it ENCODES precisely information about the shape of the lake bottom.
The water obviously has a mind. Or you're a fucktard who believes creationist crap. Hmmm, decisions, decisions...
@Reaper2020 I notice all your opponents got quite as a church mouse when you asked them to put up an example of a language arising without intelligence. They never admit they were wrong or concede any point - but their silence is deafening :-)
TheZoo . com ~~ GodsGamble . com ~~ MeaningofLife . us
@Censored4TRUTH "put up an example of a language arising without intelligence."
I think you bring up a good point. Although, I wouldn't consider DNA 'language', but I can't think of another language, code or blueprint that wasn't created by something. I think most people would agree with this. Based on this, what is your point?
@Censored4TRUTH "put up an example of a language arising without intelligence."
I think you bring up a good point. Although, I wouldn't consider DNA 'language', but I can't think of another language, code or blueprint that wasn't created by something. I think most people would agree with this. Based on this, what is your point?
This has been flagged as spam show
A question for the ID proponent.
If something is so complex that it must require a designer (which I understand is the basic tenet of ID), and the example of, say, DNA is used to make the point, then there must also exist something so simple that it DOESN`T require a designer. If there isn`t such simplicity, then the word complex has no meaning, because everything then is complex, and therefore everything requires a designer. It`s circular.
So, challenge: Give an example of such simplicity.
RationalThinker1859 2 months ago
well put...I will also add that facts do not care what we believe or dis believe..changes nothing and no one can prove anything ...some clues however sud jest a possible explanation..
Reaper2020 2 months ago
Why do people always have to be so venomous towards those who believe differently? We need to respect each others' views. Resorting to name calling and insults only fuels flames. If someone wants to believe in the Big Bang, more power to them. If someone wants to believe in a Supreme Being, same thing. We can learn a lot from each other if we can communicate affably instead of jumping down throats at the first mention of "wrong" idea.
jbs901 2 months ago
most people need a religious explanation to feel their life has meaning and purpose.. I believe we are insignificant,and that all religions are a form of control..I believe in science,science should be the search for the truth no matter where it takes us...the truth is we are microscopic in the universe around us,the other truth is,all lifeforms as we know it is dna based,and dna is information...information show desire/intent which only comes from a mind
Reaper2020 3 months ago
oceans of oil and coal are everywhere..broken down from biological lifeforms,indeed lifeforms that were here before all fossil records.. one thing is for sure dna is a blue print and biological mechanisms read the blueprint then construct it ...a mind created this...unless science can prove otherwise this is the only logical explanation
Reaper2020 3 months ago
you people always make assumptions of what creationists believe,not all of us believe the same things,I believe very different then what the typical creationists believe...I do not blindly believe in the bible or that I was created in the image of the almighty-I stand on one simple logical principle-information is only created by a mind,whatever that entails dna is a blueprint for all life ,religious believes have nothing to do with facts-past life was here b4 us...this is a fact
Reaper2020 3 months ago
i'm really interested to hear that creationists (who seem to think the world is just a few thousand years old) simultaneously believe in fossils of "modern" humans that are a few billion years old. Ooops. Moving to the vid. The thesis seems to be; You need DNA to self replicate so you have to have DNA before replication. If you want to say this is true, you have to first show replication can only occur through DNA and that, my friends, is plain wrong. Your argument is dead.
stuarteaston 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@blaisingm Thank you. Let's build:
Whatever is impressive about language is subsumed by the CAPACITY FOR LANGUAGE. We agree languages require intelligence:HOW MUCH MORE DOES THE CAPACITY FOR LANGUAGE require design?
I'm stunned by creative linguistic constructs of children (and adults!). I ask, "Where did she hear that??" but realize: SHE JUST MADE IT UP!
If language is born of intelligence, the designed capacity for language is doubly so.
WhatisProof . com ~ GodsGamble . com ~ TheGuy . com
Censored4TRUTH 5 months ago
@DwyerStenquist Not only does DNA, in every way, function as a system to contain blueprints for all life in its distinctive language efficient enough to trump every human language and information system, it expresses the ideas of its language in ways that allowed you to question and deny it.
DNA owns you, it made you, it determined who you are. That's one expressive language. If God had a language, DNA would be it - a language of LIFE.
TheAngel . com
Censored4TRUTH 5 months ago
There exist numerous plausible hypotheses (e.g. RNA-world) which do not require protein assemblage as precursing abiogenesis. Ribozymes self-replicate just fine without DNA or proteins. Explain why ID is needed for that.
What is your fixation with the DNA "code"? Do you even know what it refers to?
rusman74x 1 year ago
Natural selection doesn't claim to explain the origin of life. It doesn't try to, it explains evolution. But this isn't proof of god. Its amazing to me how intellectually dishonest the fundamentalist christians are.
willforrhall 1 year ago
@DwyerStenquist you have zero proof to support that statement-and none of you,and I do mean none of you,can explain where the information comes from-
d.n.a. is a blueprint for life -kills you that things like coded instructions come from an intelligence, there's no way you can prove otherwise,so instead of making an argument based on knowledge and fact on how coded information comes from say a rock or other non living things...you attack the messenger,not the message-pathetic..
Reaper2020 1 year ago
@Reaper2020 The burden of proof isn't on dwyer. It's on you. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. So far all that has been provided is a conjecture.
feriwarlock 4 months ago
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mikeey1987 1 year ago
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mikeey1987 1 year ago
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mikeey1987 1 year ago
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mikeey1987 1 year ago
thier instuctions
cheeseballs85 1 year ago
@DwyerStenquist if you really believe their is no intelligence cause behind all aspects of science then you really are contradicting all that is science.
goodguyb 1 year ago
Reaper2020 --that requires more faith then believing in God===
God blew his bad breath over a clump of mud, and voila, it became alive and upright.
That takes a lot of faith man !!
lizazoon 1 year ago
these guys are like cartoon characters.
"Kif, we've got a conundrum" - zapp brannigan
"we don't know the origin... ah... it must be a creator, because never before in our human history have we learned something that earlier generations could not understand or didn't already know"
ImthetrueMessiah 2 years ago
lol everyone should kno that this "information" or "dna" itself has no true origin, because everything is dna, go eat a rock, your cells will transform this into dna, if mass exist then it needs not a mind to produce dna, for dna is an energy reserved in mass because mass is energy....
alythia8 2 years ago
Mind/consciousness/spirit/God/etc. is primal.
Mind is the indescribable magic constant of the cosmos - Walden
Life is in and of all things from the beginning, always and forever. Life is eternal. Life is in inorganic as well as all organic matter. Life is in and of all of the elements and the atoms of the elements and the compounds of the elements. Life is merely the registration, in matter, of states of motion of thinking Mind. - from "The Universal One", 1926, Walter Russell
Selasia 2 years ago
More on this here: wikicompany. org/wiki/911:Cosmic_mind_fractal
The books "DMT The Spirit Molecule" and "The Cosmic Serpent" give a good idea just how deep the aspect of Mind is interwoven in what we call objective reality. Science is but one way of looking at reality. 'Going into Mind' with your mind - as the shamans do - is another, both methods are valid and complementary.
Selasia 2 years ago
This isn't even a theory, it's a hypothesis with absolutely no evidence or verifiable data to support it other than personal belief.
Stop shifting science to support creationism.
TWCGroup 2 years ago
DNA is NOT made of proteins. DNA, among many functions, serves as the template for protein synthesis.
Intelligent Design cannot be called a theory until it has accumulated continuous facts which have suffered through research and peer review. Theory trumps fact because it is built on fact.
icedsoftball 2 years ago
Information does not require to from a mind. Infact, a mind is nothing more than highly advanced information itself.
PoddaJawada 2 years ago
So did the ID "theory" arise when somebody observed a little bearded man in a microscope, moving around sugar bases proclaiming "yeah, that aughta do it!".
CHAS1422 3 years ago
yeah yeah,,,does that apply to all biological life on earth to? all life has D.N.A. all D.N.A. is coded with specific instructions, all life with a D.N.A. blue print,and it all happened by chance over billions of years? that requires more faith then believing in God,the mathematical probability is absolutely impossible to calculate,its not even close to a fact,and you should stop presenting it like it is
Reaper2020 3 years ago
You really are a complete idiot who spouts creationist drivel.
The mathematical probability of the end-product of billions of years of evolution arising spontaneously is infinitely small. That's not how evolution works. And if you don't know, or understand that, you're just talking crap whenever you discuss it.
bdf2718 3 years ago
@Reaper2020 Argh people like u are just so fucking stupid.Listen to this: NO ONE HAS "FAITH" IN ABIOGENISIS. Do you understand what I'm saying?
Some people believe it happened; that it's the best explatation so far but no one, NO ONE believes that it's an unassailable fact which requires no further evidence. NO ONE HAS "FAITH" IN ABIOGENISIS.
If it was SCIENTIFICALLY DISPROVEN (there is no peer-reviwed research which concludes abiogenisis impossible) then we'd say "back to the drawing board"
Bkkhngr81 1 year ago
@Reaper2020 thanks for giving us all excellent examples of the lottery fallacy and the argument from personal incredulity.
crusaders36 1 year ago
but it is encoded,and never said its a "language" read what I said..."DNA has a four-letter alphabet, and structures very similar to words, sentences and paragraphs. With very precise instructions." bio mechanical operatives carry out the instructions...who wrote those instructions? {adenine thymine cytosine guanine} which are arranged in a way that leaves a blue print from everything from the color of your eyes to what gender you will be.
Reaper2020 3 years ago
not everything that has an answer has to be a complex answer...are you as good at answering questions as you are asking them? like languages, and coded
information ONLY come from a mind. A mind that agrees on an alphabet and a meaning of words and sentences. A mind that expresses both desire and intent.-do you have an example for messages and coded information coming from something other then a mind?
Reaper2020 3 years ago 6
When I look at depth-soundings of a lake I am impressed how precisely the water fits the lake-bottom. If I flash-chill the water to ice and remove it, I note that it ENCODES precisely information about the shape of the lake bottom.
The water obviously has a mind. Or you're a fucktard who believes creationist crap. Hmmm, decisions, decisions...
bdf2718 3 years ago
@Reaper2020 I notice all your opponents got quite as a church mouse when you asked them to put up an example of a language arising without intelligence. They never admit they were wrong or concede any point - but their silence is deafening :-)
TheZoo . com ~~ GodsGamble . com ~~ MeaningofLife . us
Censored4TRUTH 5 months ago
@Censored4TRUTH "put up an example of a language arising without intelligence."
I think you bring up a good point. Although, I wouldn't consider DNA 'language', but I can't think of another language, code or blueprint that wasn't created by something. I think most people would agree with this. Based on this, what is your point?
blaisingm 5 months ago
@Censored4TRUTH "put up an example of a language arising without intelligence."
I think you bring up a good point. Although, I wouldn't consider DNA 'language', but I can't think of another language, code or blueprint that wasn't created by something. I think most people would agree with this. Based on this, what is your point?
blaisingm 5 months ago