I agree that "The Nighfly" CD is lacking in bass. But, I can't hear the distortion you're talking about. It sounds pretty marvelous from my Arcam Alpha 7 cd player.
Not trying to advertise my channel (so people don't get mad) but if you really love the sound of vinyl, even from a USB turntable, my channel has tons of videos with sound from the vinyl and many more to come!
i mean if you put enough money into the reproduction of any format . . its gonna sound the best. a super audiophile sacd played will distroy a lp being played on a not so audiophile (but not cheap) turntable/preamp/receiver combo.
@Capeau I was using professional digital recording equipment before most knew it existed... I don't hate it but I was surprised at just how much it lacked when I started listening to LP's again. :) JC
@Capeau It's not about sampling rates and frequency response. It's about sample word length and how the A/D quantizer makes decisions as to what PCM step to assign each sample. There is a great deal of aliasing even at 32 bits and you add jitter into the mix and you end up with no depth and a gritty metallic harshness to the sound. I felt the same way for 17 years until I started listening to analog again. I found that there's a presence from good vinyl that just isn't there with digital. :) JC
But i have found ppl saying this suddenly cant hear the difference anymore between a vinyl recorded to CD and the original vinyl when doing an A-B test.
also, bit depth has nothing to do with alliasing. Adding more steps will make the aliassing finer and thus less noticable but it wont prevent it.
Its all in the head, except for the 'extra precense' which are artifact because of physical limits of vinyl.
Play a properly pressed, prefessionally cleaned, record on a Clearaudio Statement turntable, with the Statement linear tracking tonearm, AirTight cartridge, Aestehtix Jupiter serious gear, Wilson Max 3 speakers, Shunyata V-Ray and power cords, and TARA Labs interconnects, for a reality check. You will hear how inferior today's digital is compared to analog done right.
Many other configurations, of much lesser cost, will also blow away anything digital.
If you hear artifacts, or warmth, then you either have a bad and/or dirty pressing, a poorly set-up turntable, or massed produced gear.
When analog is done right, there is no warmth or color; just accurate playback of the original performance. You need quailty (often expensive) gear (that gets along) to achieve this. Once achieved, you will recognize all of the faults of even the best digital gear.
Most people have never heard this quality gear, or even knows that it exists.
Well said, well done. I am curious what audio system you did your critique with? I am a vintage Jbl man and I try to use amps and source components similar to recording studios. Eg Perreaux, Crown, Australian Monitor. MP3 is even more depressing so come the revolution. Bring back real hifi.
perfect example..bob seger's nine tonight. for 20 plus years we had to put up with the 'edited for cd'' version of let it rock..then 20 years later we FINALLY get it remastered but yet again let it rock is STILL edited in favor of a bonus song..i just don't get it.
I think you make some very interesting points. I bitterly regret selling so many LP's and singles back in the 1980's when the compact disc was the "bright shiny future"...which it turned out not to be! Mind you i've learned my lesson many times over! I should have used my ears more!
But I forgot to mention that this year marks the 30th anniversary of the Compact Disc since it was first introduced back in 1982. I will make a video of that soon to see which format is better, CD or vinyl. We'll find out!
The reasons I like CD's, because I picked up a 50-pack CD-R's at Target yesterday, but this is the one that I had never bought in a while. I have to make CD's from a vinyl LP. I have too many LP's in my collection, but it took too much space. So I decided to get rid of them before making a CD. I like both a lot better.
Hi BadEditPro. Really enjoyed your video and hearing your thoughts.
Im a music producer and agree with what your saying. Your touching on some very complex issues. For me, the worst period of music recording was between 1996-2007. It coincided with a time when computers became powerful enough to run 'plugins'. Plugins cover the whole spectrum - virtual instruments, virtual mixing desks, compression, eq, effects etc. These are entirely digital...and often modelled on 'vintage' gear...
@DIGITALSCREAMS The problem with plugins is that they sound inferior to the analog equipment they try to emulate. In alot of cases they remove the need for session musicians - piano, orchestral, percussion, drums, guitar you name it...its been emulated. Why has this happened? Record companies have always looked for ways to reduce the costs associated with producing an album/single. 90% of the budget is now spent on marketing and music videos. This trend started in 1983 with MTV...
@DIGITALSCREAMS Factor in the birth of the internet in '92 and digital downloads/piracy and you can begin to see why the major record labels deceased their investment in artists and production values. It was sold to the masses as 'convenience' but in reality...the end user suffered with an inferior product. As said earlier 1996-2007 was the DARK period for music recordings. Trust your ears, you can hear it. Avoid the 'remasters' during this period...
@DIGITALSCREAMS If your wanting the 'best' versions of your favourite tracks then you need to buy it on LP. Anything up until 1985 will sound very good. CD's sounded pretty good up until around 1995. Between 1996-2007 CD's sounded their worst. Since 2007 CD's have dramtically improved. A trend set to continue especially now more and more artists are going back to LP's.
Vinyl as a format will always be the preferred choice amongst music lovers and audiophiles. TRUST YOUR EARS.
@DIGITALSCREAMS Amen! I avoid post 1995 CD's like the plague... I was programming radio station during that period and I couldn't believe how crushed and gritty most of the new stuff coming in sounded. It got worse as time went on and I started wishing I could get un-squashed copies to play on the air but the record companies were sending out the same crap to radio that they were selling to consumers and it just sounded terrible when you put a new song up against a well mastered oldie. :) JC
@DIGITALSCREAMS I agree... Some people go plug-in crazy and if they come upon something new, they got to use it on everything they do for a month. I have used Adobe Audition for years and I've played with a lot of VST plug-ins for it. I was never all that impressed and found the basic EQ, compression and limiting built in to the program to be adequate most of the time. Digital is not evil, it's just been misused by a lot of folks lately. :) JC
im an audio engineer a young one at that so im in this environment where micro editing and over compression is a standard practice be it the client or the labels wishes for it to be "louder" but if i ever develop my ears enough to become a mastering engineer i feel its wiser to find a mastering house where they still cut to vinyl. the art form of cutting a record to vinyl is an art form that cant be lost for the sake of convenience.
@respinozaaudio Thanks! A little tweaking is not a bad thing, even for vinyl. It's just that they carry it way to far these days. I just wish the remastering engineers would go get a clean first pressing and listen to it first. I can't tell you the number of times I've heard an original record and said, "Oh, that's what that's supposed to sound like." :) JC
what about modern music which gets also released on vynil? Let's say you got a dance tune which quite often gets released on vynil and cd. would the vynil still sound better? (assuming the original tune was made digitally and it was then mastered for vynil or cd respectivly)
@Xenitic Most of the time the answer would be yes. The LP mastering process is different from CD and the end result is usually more dynamic for vinyl these days. :) JC
@BadEditPro well thats coz vynils are made for clubs and coz they got their own limiters there they dont want to oversquash the dynamic range (which however is so common today since so many people dj from mp3s and cds........). Assuming we would just put the unmastered mixdown on vynil or cd (no bus compression/limiting etc) i mean? vynil still better?
@Xenitic I was referring to audiophile grade records but DJ's don't want to much limiting, either. Its not so much the compression on the bus that is the problem. It's the hyper-limiting used when CD's are mastered. They really crush all the life out of the audio in that step these days. :) JC
@Xenitic Modern music released on record does sound noticeably better than the CD release. The reason being (as some have already alerted to) is that the mastering process is different....way waaaayyy different. In addition, vinyl exerts its on characteristics on the finished product. There are technological/psycho acoustic reasons for this...which I cannot go into right now.
Amen brother!! You're dead on!! I have a very good CD player, and alot does depend on the playback equipment, but it cannot touch my vinyl rig in terms of musical involvement. CD proponents go back to the same old arguements, i.e low noise floor, no crackeling, ease of use etc.
Agree with you on this. I keep searching for a good sounding cd, but guess what, that's an oxymoron. There ain't no such thing. The best sounding LP's I own is a late 60's version of John Coltrane's Giant Steps and a Les Paul engineered record of Joe Bushkin solo piano. These two recordings should be mandatory study for any sound engineer.
@SegaAM3Live Go find someone who has a good setup and sit down and listen for a while. What you say is true if you've never heard how good vinyl can be because all you've seen is old cheap systems. There's more to it than numbers and it's true that CD's don't have wow & fluster; they have jitter, which is worse. CD's don't have surface noise; they have aliasing errors, which is worse. I could go on... CD's are fine in their place but for real hi-fi vinyl is better. :) JC
I always think CD/digital versions of songs that were on an vinyl sound a bit sluggish like David Bowie's album Let's Dance. On vinyl it sounds so smooth and has a lot of depth but on a compact disc it's slower and sounds very 2 dimensional.
Artists want their music to be loud, for today's youth. They want their songs to be louder than, or at least equally loud to, the rest of the iPod listener's catalog. They achieve this, at the cost of fidelity, with massive compression -- so every part of the song plays at a similar volume.
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Most artists demand it in pursuit of sales. So the studios must comply.
Most vinyl pressings suck -- especially today's represses.
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The best Beatles' records, for example, (potentially) sound better on UK pressings vs. US pressings.
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No two pressings sound alike. In fact, side 1 might sound great, and side 2, of the same record, might sound lousy. I have gone through numerous pressings, of the same album, to land a quality pressing.
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After you listen to a "pressing done right", you will never want to listen to digital again.
@NoEgg4u i agree with no two lps sound alike.i had a great sounding steely dan royal scam lp.it ended up lost so i got another.it just sounded awful.after two more copies i found a good one.As far as cd sound quali]y,the best ive heard is the new remastered beatle cds
Fantastic video! I grew up with cd's and just recently bought my first turntable. I had no idea what I was missing. The sound on an lp is alive. Digital can't hold a candle to it.
I sold all my records at the end of eighties. A few years later I have bought a CD player and started to collect CD-s. I was not happy with the sound so changed my players several times, I have also listened to hi-rez digital players at my audio club. The penny dropped when I have listened to a record player, it was like coming home. What I was looking for was all there. I have bought my favorite tonearm two record players (kept one of them) and and regularly attended to record fairs. The end
A few years later I have bought a CD player and started to collect CD-s. I was not happy with the sound so changed my players several times, I have also listened to hi-rez digital players at my audio club. The penny dropped when I have listened to a record player, it was like coming home. What I was looking for was all there. I have bought my favorite tonearm two record players (kept one of them) and and regularly attended to record fairs. The end
Joe ... Absolutely fascinating report. All should commend you for your research. However, you mentioned there being some type of non-technical difference between the version of a song on a "45" and the version released on LPs. Is the difference in the length? I didn't catch what that non-technical difference is.
@tonyny77 I was referring to different mixes that are issued exclusively as singles. The single version of a hit song can sound very different from the version that appears on the LP. Unfortunately, many producers have opted to put out the LP versions on updated CD releases of greatest hits collections. This makes finding the original version very difficult these days. :) JC
@BadEditPro - Thanks kindly for your reply. I don't know nearly as much on this topic as you, but I'm going to guess why the LP and "45" versions might differ. These are just my wild guesses: (1) PERHAPS the dynamic range is adjusted to accommodate tighter groove spacing on the LPs, or (2) Having less consideration these days, they just don't care much about the art or historical accuracy. In either case, it's hardly an excuse. I lack your qualifications, but I support your views on this issue.
@BadEditPro sorry, but I don't belive it until I see it :) I might be wrong and you have special hearing, but 99.99% ppl won't tell the difference even on a good sound system.
@Zephear If you A/B the audio from a 44.1/16 wave and the original analog, the digital copy sounds thin and gritty, even with really good converters. (Unfortunately, I can't demonstrate it on YT because all the audio is at 44/1!) I have been able to get better results by recording the source at 96/32 then carefully dithering it down to 44.1/16 after a little sweetening for level, balance and EQ. 96/32 seems to capture more of the depth and sheen of the original. :) JC
i agree vinyl sounds superior to cd's. the music is in the grooves. vinyl feels real sounds real and has a personality that a cd will never have. if i listen to cds on my home system after about 10 minutes i have to turn it off, it just starts to drone on my head and is uncomfortable to listen to. the only good aspect of a cd is its.....well i cant think of one. i love vinyl, always have and always will. my friends are shocked when they here my system playing vinyl,man that sound better than cd
Oh! And I almost forgot! How could you forget the beauty of a giant LP cover. The covers are extraordinary. They're a fucking work of art. You can look at them all day.
There is nothing, nothing like the sound of fresh vinyl. Even the smell is intoxicating, never mind the sound. The only sad thing about vinyl is, you can easily wear your favorite record out. Cd's have a terrible watered down sound. Vinyl is the one and only true musical format.
I prefer LP's but you can't play an LP in a car believe me I would if i could do that, but CD's are the next option, I agree with the guy who said if you take care of a CD it never wears out. I used to put everything on cassettee when I bought an LP i'd record it to cassette. Cd's are a modern version of cassette to me.
The funny thing is that both formats have their pluses and minuses. CD's if taken care of properly never wear out, they sound great and they are smaller and easy to store. Vinyl sounds great, if not a little better, but they wear out and aren't practical to take places. I have heard CD's that sound better than it's vinyl counterpart and I've heard vinyl that sounds better than a CD.
according to some videos on youtube Records actually have better audio than CD's in like the Hz or something. like while the CD's are cut off at a certain range Records keep on going.
@RandomConcepts For me, it's about resolution. Digital has an effect where a sound that is slightly in the background seems to be far away with little detail. This makes the audio sound flat and lifeless. Even compressing it won't bring it back. Analog is detailed at any level so even if the audio is more dynamic than the CD counterpart there's still depth and detail that the "hyper-compressed" CD doesn't reveal. :) JC
@BadEditPro To me vinyl is better for the same reason, it sounds more natural where a digital copy sounds flat and distant no matter how good the quality is. Today I used a vinyl copy of Oval's 94 Diskont album (check it out, if you glitchy/ambient music) and it was almost like the sound wasn't being played from anything at all but being generated from the space around me, it became the empty space in the room as if it was physically there. When I listen to the same album in a digital format
@squezey1 all of that seemed to be lost. I could tell it was just coming from the speakers and wasn't really able to completely appreciate the track in the same way, didn't have any real life to it. Digital is processed while analog is transferred directly to the speaker and into the air, like I said before it is organic, sound being generated from fine carvings in a surface through a speaker is all it is.
Digital music never wears out if you take the precaution to back it up in a lossless format. There is a dandy free program called Exact Audio Copy that works like a charm.
Digital is better than analog if the digital version was not mutilated at the mastering console, and if the stereo system it is played back on is top notch.
Some CD's do indeed suck canal water. The most egregious example of historical inaccuracy is of course the "loudness war" compression in the re-mastered versions, even on music that was originally issued on CD. I was happy to find used CD's on Amazon.
Recently bought a Denon DP-300F turntable, Shure M97xE cartridge and a Bellari VP130 tube phono preamp. The music sounds more enjoyable from this setup than from digital format. Soothing to the ears. But couldn't someone just turn down the treble on their receiver and get the same warm effect as vinyl?
@JOURN3YMAN As you listen, you're going to start to notice more depth to the audio. It's more than just tonal balance. There is actually more resolution on vinyl than CD can reproduce. Cymbals are clearer, reverb seems to be fuller and little sounds in the mix seem clearer and more detailed. The M97xE is a very warm cart. Put an Audio-Technica AT120E on the same setup and you're going to get the same crispness as CD but with more detail. :) JC
@RandomConcepts Instead of quoting Wikipedia, I would suggest you spend some time listening to a well setup phono system. The numbers don't tell it all. CD has a very wide dynamic range but the loss of detail in quiet passages due to lack of resolution inherent with 16 bit digital ruins any real illusion of depth. This is why dithering and compression are used in CD mastering. Even so, the end product sounds one dimensional compared to high resolution analog. Listen and hear for yourself.
What I interpreted from "Digital Audio" on Wikipedia is that part of the reason LPs sound better is because digitally, there's a small "step"" between each signal level caused by rounding, while the analog signal is much more fluid.
This next part is my own opinion, but another reason could be that the analog medium has had enough time to be perfected, while the digital medium has been around for a shorter amount of time and there hasn't really been a push to improve it.
@RandomConcepts The reviewer just came into a cache of pristine radio promotional 45 singles from the 70's and 80's that were mind blowingly clear and clean. The depth and detail that came off of those disks far exceeds anything he's ever heard from any of the digital copies that have been released of these songs and that includes professional releases intended for broadcast. The reviewer could not disagree with your analyses more. :) JC
I've noticed that if I play my guitar along with an LP eg. Harvest - Neil Young they will be slightly of key from each other. My guitar is perfectly in tune, but its almost as if the LP is turning a fraction too slow to be in perfect key ?
This is a good video. I'm getting a vinyl record player for my birthday. Though, I have heard 24-bit 96 Khz recordings and they sounded pretty good to me. I'll be honest, I started off my music collection with pirated Mp3 files. Then I actually bought a CD, and since I had a surround sound in my room (just got a new better one since old one was lightning struck), and it DID sound better than Mp3. Now, I rarely use Mp3s except portably. Now i'm getting into LPs - all legal music o LP & CD for me!
@BadEditPro I got th record player today.. I'm testing it out, then away for my birthday (I'm turning 21 and am still at home). Even though I got a cheap one, it sounds pretty good. I have Permanent Waves from Rush on CD and Vinyl, so I'll be doing some comparing them. CDs are wonderful, but Vinyl will definitely have a greater presence in my collection. More and more music that is modern and new is being put on vinyl, and older stuff being re manufactured.. Vinyl is making a come back. bye mp3!
SOME OF MY TEACHERS!SOME OF MY MENTORS THEY ARE OLD AND THEY WILL END UP DOING SOMETHING ELSE.PEOPLE BECOME MORE PREOCUPATE TO SURVIVE THIS DAYS !HAVE SOMETHING TO EAT!TO MAKE A AUDIO MATERIALS REQUIET TO PAY ELECTRICAL CURRENT ALSO, AND SOW MANY MANY THINGS...SOW VINYL SINCE NOW SONIC IT IS THE BEST CAPTURE!EVER MADE!
I WILL SIRE IF THERE IT WILL BE A INDUSTRY IN MUSIC AND FILM EDITING NEXT TO MUSICAL FILM TRACK I WILL!THAT S WAY I INVEST MY LIFE IN IT!IT IS THE MOST PRECIOUS GIFT FROM GUD !TIMES!YOU SIRE HAVE A FORTUNE THERE!LISTEN MATERIALS THIS DAYS!!!THE SONGS THIS DAY HAVE NOTHING !NO MELO,NO FEEL,NO SONIC,NO FUTURE!I EVEN WANT TO RELOCATE MYSELF DEFYNITLY FROM ROMANIA TO LUXEMBOURG AND TRY TO DO SOMETHING THERE! BECAUSE MUSIC ENVOLVED PEOPLE AND IT MADE FOR PEOPLE AND HERE IS HARD TO DO THAT!
HY !i heear saying something about us recording engyneer .Nothing happend with our ears the sistem my brother.the customers thats mean clients simply don-t care or the mass media equipment.i love to make it all of my masters in LP belevmeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! because we are tray to do our best !we can heeae imense ,huuuuuuuuuuge diference in quality ,but the industries is kiling us,litlle by litlle,include throw this sick internet sound.internet sound sucks in esence !I LOVE YOU MAN !!
@soulessdelu I am well aware of what's happening... It must be very frustrating to take something that's clean and have to limit the hell out of it just to make some idiot who says, "I want it LOUD" happy. Fight the good fight where and when you can. :) JC
This is a great video. I have a feeling vinyl will always be pressed, but CD's may go away in the near future. That said, some albums and songs, I actually prefer on CD. I feel that CD has a better frequency response in certain areas of the audio spectrum. For other albums and songs I prefer vinyl. One day I have to get a real vinyl collection going. People are starting to learn of the recent mistakes in mastering audio, you are right, young people have to learn and fix this.
@BadEditPro I totally agree with you, but I still prefer to listen to my music on CD/MP3. I like to listen to the songs as they were suppose to be heard, not the songs with wow/flutter, sibilence, surface noise, etc. And , also, syli are getting really hard to get hold of (well in the UK anyway,) and very expensive! So, sorry, I will always buy the CD version of any album rather than vinyl.
As a side note, love your audio on this video! Sounds like you are speaking through a telephone!!
@BadEditPro Also, sorry, not spamming, just another point. Why are audio cassettes not ever mentioned anymore either? I Also reckon they were better sounding than any vinyl too. I am not knoking vinyl, honestly, but audio casettes never seem to get a look in nowadays. I really do miss having a tape deck and prefered the warmth of cassette over vinyl harshness and even cd's! Its a real pity that cassettes died! Are you ever going to compare them too?
@yogibear2k10 It depends on what part of the world you're in. Cassettes are still very popular in Mexico and throughout South America. I've posted a ton of vids on them, too. I just haven't come across any really interesting tape related stuff lately. :) JC
What equipment are you using to play CDs? what kind of transport? What kind of DAC? Sure, a good quality turntable, tonearm, cartridge combination with a nice preamp, will sound better than a cheap CD player, but have you done a head to head with high-end digital reproduction technology?
@digimaton Right now, I have Teac and Optimus CD players with 4x oversampling and both have analog filters. I have found that analog filtering is sonically much better than digital. When I worked in radio, I mostly used Denon professional players costing in the thousands. I have used pro digital recorders and editors since the early 90's. Digital can sound very good but there's a presence that's always lost when compared to really good analog even at high bit rates.. :) JC
@digimaton GOod point! Not only that, but think how much would a good qaulity tone are, turntable etc. cost compared to getting the same sound from a cd player? A hell of a lot more! And there is no way of getting rid of surface noise no matter how much you pay!! I must admit that I do like listening to my old vinyl, but when I get the same ablum on cd I never listen to the vinyl again because I just can't stand the quality! I much prefer CD! It sounds so much more real than vinyl.
@yogibear2k10 boils down to dynamic range, try listening to something by Salvatore Sciarrino on vinyl, impossible, unless you are happy incorporating surface noise into the listening experience. Yes one could invest in a high-end record cleaner by Loricraft or suchlike and clean before every listen, or even buy a laser turntable, but for that kind of money (not including the rest of the gear) you could get a seriously good transport/DAC combo.
OK, above. So, as I was saying, I checked out CBAT and the vinyl beat the CD. However, listening the Royal Scam I would say the CD beats the vinyl, so it's not every album that sounds better. Here are a few I have found to be outstanding on vinyl: The Yes Album, The Hissing of Summer Lawns, Troubadour (JJ Cale) , Innervisions (Stevie), Hendrix In The West, Still Crazy (Paul Simon).
@NickDuvet Comparing Steely Dan issues is up and down because it all depends on when it was released. I have noticed that the MCA re-issues on vinyl tend to sound better than the original ABC versions. :) JC
Thanks for this. I too have gone back to owning as turntable for the first time in 25 years and I am amazed at how much better some vinyls albums sound. The music sounds more alive, like you say as if you are listening in on the artists actually playing it. I wanted to be sure I wasn't fooling myself into believing this so I did some comparisons. An American pressing of Steely Dan's Can't Buy A Thrill sounds brighter and with cleaner separation than the Citizen version (more below)
Wondered if anyone could answer my question.. I don't doubt analogue recorded audio played back on an analogue format is superior to its digital counterpart. But. What about digitally recorded material then pressed to vinyl?
@elliotnicklin LP's mastered from digital are usually done from very high resolution 96/24 digital master recordings played back on equipment that costs many thousands of dollars. You simply can't reproduce digital with that kind of accuracy at home but the LP's mastered that way can. :) JC
Let them say CD is better.... forgive them..they really do not know what they are saying..they had not the chance to realise the real thing.... vinyl recording from the sixties, made using tube equipment, beats CD easy...try Bert Kaempfert discs if you have not already made.....nice ones
@destroyersoueu Yeah, the record picks up ALL the sounds, really. It's made specifically for the human ear. CDs are digital, and only pick up whatever sounds the bit is at. So records are better quality, but CDs are portable, last longer (depending on how you handle em), and don't degrade over a period of time. And if you scratch a record, your going to hear that noise. On a CD, you won't. Those are pretty much... the differences. So, records are better for at home, CDs, anywheres else.
Vinyl sounds better... reason why is the convertion and sampling.... audio waves are very complex, not possible to 192 sampling or even higher to copy and restore these informations from analog to digital and them back to analog once again...no chance to CD, even better recording, looseless recordings alike Flac and other sampling methods..no way....sound today is made to the majority of deaf listeners..they want distortions and to listen loud. sensitive listener cannot tollerate CD and MP3
@blancman Depending what pressing you have of the CD and the LP it just about breaks even. My 2008 LP has more detail than the 1990 CD version I have. :) JC
@saemikneu The obly company that did that with any regularity was Columbia. They were in such a rush to get the product out they didn't do the tape research to find the original masters. The entire Simon & Garfunkel catalog was issued this way. Those CD's sound awful! However, many from the period were done right and hold up today. You just gotta know what you're looking for. :) JC
You talk a lot about the musical experience being better when listening to a Vinyl record. Would this also apply to a lossless digital rip of the Vinyl? Because then you do listen to a digitalized version of it and not an analog.
@Folstream Even 24-bit 192 Khz is lossy, because anything not captured by the 24/192 recording is lost. However, 192 Khz is far beyond human hearing, and vinyl captures up to about 60 Khz I believe, so you won't REALLY notice any difference. Digital is still lossy compared to analog because even at high resolutions it takes snapshots of it. But its kind of like HDTV, more pixels = more realistic. But neither high res screens or audio will beat actually hearing it or seeing it for real.
I like the scratchy sound. Its classy, but every kid at my school has an ipod, and sure records cant travel with you, but listening to them gives you a real "artist" feeling.
@Jx8o5 Well maintained records played with a good setup are not scratchy... For an iPod, I say digital is just fine. Records are for serious listening on a real hi-fi system at home. Unfortunately, music is background noise for most folks today. :) JC
This is vaguely similar to the 'film vs digital' camera debate, the only thing most people care to think about is the age of the technology. Shame really.
People actually took time to master LPs well, I too being a digital guy was blown away when I discovered that LPs do in fact sound better than CDs. I'm a die hard Tool fan, I own multiple copies of each of their albums and I own 3 of their vinyls. The first one was Opiate. I've listened to the CD countless times. When I listened to the vinyl for the first time... Simply mindblowing. Crystal clear vocals, nice clean bass, and the live tracks are to die for.
@MrMario2011 I have heard the same sort of story a lot since I posted this video. Once you hear really good audio, you're hooked and nothing else will do :) JC
@BadEditPro I actually got interested in vinyl when I was about 8 or 9, then after a few years of not touching them my dad threw them all away :( When I went back, my turntable was really messed up. My friend told me it wouldn't be worth fixing, just a few months ago I finally got another turntable so I'm back on vinyl :) I never noticed SQ when I was a kid, so it's really nice going back and checking them out now.
I have loved records since I was a little kid. And I will love them long past when my children, and their children, are telling me I must be completely ancient! I mean, I'm listening to something that wasn't made for a computer! Right now, in fact, I'm listening to Kenny Rogers' Love will turn you around, 1982. If I could go back for a little while...I so would.
@Bobassa0903 Me, too. I'm glad I went back to them after 17 years. It's been a lot of fun. By the way, that song is particularly hard to find on CD. :) JC
i can't give two shits if anybody is titillated over digital. the real root cause for quarreling comparisons is that every TECHNOLOGY is corrupt. EVERYTHING is all set to expire. people can see products post twenty five plus years ago built 'better' because planned obsolescence was very slim. the going down spiral is happening and there is no return :( this of everything manufactured, not equally high quality is a DETRIMENT. the venus project (i support) shows it!
My pet peeve is when I hear songs like "Johnny B. Goode" on an oldies station with saturated reverb and hollow bass. No kick. Or the vocals override the complete contents of the song. Or even worse, a terribly stereo re-mix where the vocals and bass are on the left speaker, and the drums and guitars are on the right speaker.
If the record was produce for mono, it should remain mono.
@richieyo2000 You are absolutely right. If you go back to the original 45's it's a real eye opening experience. Those records really rock and the re-masters just sound flat and lifeless. :) JC
Most 45 where mixed in mono. Therefore these recordings were designed to sound ballsy in monophonic; to sell these records on AM radio and to playback on old, ceramic cartridge mono phonographs.
I love 50s and 60s Rock 'n' Roll. The original 45 RPM record brings out the true meaning of the song of its day. Let's face it. In 1957, teens wanted to hear loud, punchy kick-ass quality just like teens today.
CD and re-issues are usually re-mastered by younger engineers who tend to thin the sound down (probably for the older folks) therefore CD compilations or re-issues of these classics are poorly mixed.
I love 50s and 60s Rock 'n' Roll. The original 45 RPM record brings out the true meaning of the song of its day. Let's face it. In 1957, teens wanted to hear loud, punchy kick-ass quality just like teens today.
CD and re-issues are usually re-mastered by younger engineers who tend to thin the sound down (probably for the older folks) therefore CD compilations or re-issues of these classics are poorly mixed.
i wouldn't call it just a fad. i have a few LPs, and only of my fav band, cause they sound better. and for bands that cared about how the sound was (instead of just being loud), it's better. and it's easy to hear.
the real problem is that technology is determined into the monetary system and sequence and unfortunately the side effect to the shaped corruption is 'planned obsolescence'. search it up because it is occurring constantly more than before. wait and see when all the 3G phones will be stripped into rubbish tips. making a finite sufficient, efficient and sustainable product is an enemy to profit. the venus project will fix this as all worlds will benefit!
LPs are just nostalgia & retro-fad. Great! But the playback system IS key. Again, no need to go crazy on audiophile gear. In 2011, 320 mp3s can be made to sound stellar and no its not iPods. Cowon makes one that have BBE, I can't tell you how amazing that makes a lossy song sound. And I've sat in front of 200K audiophile systems, no lie.
SACD BTW does bring that sonic presence and smoothness people confuse with "warmth" closer to a vinyl experience, which LP lovers love - watching recrd plyrs.
@wendileona Retro-fad? Maybe for some but most folks who hear good vinyl get hooked by the sound and it changes their perspective on music entirely. You can hear the difference or you can't. If 320 mp3's and DSP sound better to you than stick with it. I've worked with professional digital recording for more than 20 years and I can hear more depth and reality coming off of records. I don't plan on dumping my CD's and mp3's but it's nice to have an alternative to that hollow plastic sound. :) JC
1:50 We have to go into tech-reasons because their ARE. If you listen closely, a CD player, a good one, not even a real boutique brand, elite thousand dollar one, can playback CD's in fantastic fidelity. LP's may have a smoother sound, but that also depends on the turntable and stylus... and cartridge... and tone arm... and so on.
@wendileona SInce I started researching the return of vinyl, I have found that even the cheapest system beats most consumer level digital. The endless resolution and generally more 'real' sound of the LP shines through. Sure., you can spend lots of cash on a turntable but that's just going to give you a more refined sound on top of the improved listening experience. that records offer even at the basic level. :) JC
Back in the day, most music buyers didnt clean/wash,treat their record and played all those records on any record player they bought. Not much effort or thought was placed on that. CD's were a revolution because people didn't have to baby or care or replace those worn out records again. Most just played and played them until they were all scratched.
TODAY, there's this resurgence because its hip, trendy to attain records. But most stilll dont put that effort to enjoy lps. Its a websocial thing.
I have to agree that records sound a whole lot better than CD's. I own a few ABBA albums on cd and vinyl and the best description of the difference in sound is if you compare a MP3 to CD and then CD to vinyl.
What do you think?
P.S. Great video on how to clean records; I've just been collecting them from charity stores etc. so thanks for that!
@trevc5197 CD just doesn't have the depth for some kings of music. ABBA stuff is layered and they use a lot of reverb in the mixes. Those songs come across as harsh and metallic from CD while the LP's sound bright and clean. MP3's can sound just as good as the original CD as long as the audio coded well. However, most folks don't know what they are doing and end up with watery sounding MP3's. So, comparing MP3 to CD is all relative. LP beats CD almost every time. :) JC
I agree that "The Nighfly" CD is lacking in bass. But, I can't hear the distortion you're talking about. It sounds pretty marvelous from my Arcam Alpha 7 cd player.
Audioquest56 1 week ago
Not trying to advertise my channel (so people don't get mad) but if you really love the sound of vinyl, even from a USB turntable, my channel has tons of videos with sound from the vinyl and many more to come!
beatlesfan464 1 week ago
@beatlesfan464 Cool! Advertise all you want. :) JC
BadEditPro 1 week ago
i mean if you put enough money into the reproduction of any format . . its gonna sound the best. a super audiophile sacd played will distroy a lp being played on a not so audiophile (but not cheap) turntable/preamp/receiver combo.
srsairbags 2 weeks ago
Digital haters are really ppl who dont know what they are talking about.
Capeau 2 weeks ago
@Capeau I was using professional digital recording equipment before most knew it existed... I don't hate it but I was surprised at just how much it lacked when I started listening to LP's again. :) JC
BadEditPro 2 weeks ago
@BadEditPro
Theres a HUGE difference between old digital equipment and new digital equipment.
Digital can 100% do what analog can (it reallt can) and even more. The only downside is you need the cpu power to do it.
The other way around doesnt go though. Analog cannot do all what digital can.
An LP sounds better because you like the artifacts it generates, which gives it some warmth. But you can simulate that digitally if you want.
Capeau 2 weeks ago
@Capeau Some people can hear it and others can't... It ain't artifacts, either. It's resolution. :) JC
BadEditPro 2 weeks ago
@BadEditPro
It has nothing to do with resolution. Thats what they call a placebo effect ;)
Stardard audio CD's are 44.1KHz
Super audio CD's are 48KHz
DVD's can support up to 96KHz.
Bluray can even go to 192KHz.
The range of the human ear IN PERFECT CONDITION(!) is 20Hz to 20KHz (which only needs 40khz to be sampled).
Capeau 2 weeks ago
@Capeau It's not about sampling rates and frequency response. It's about sample word length and how the A/D quantizer makes decisions as to what PCM step to assign each sample. There is a great deal of aliasing even at 32 bits and you add jitter into the mix and you end up with no depth and a gritty metallic harshness to the sound. I felt the same way for 17 years until I started listening to analog again. I found that there's a presence from good vinyl that just isn't there with digital. :) JC
BadEditPro 2 weeks ago
@BadEditPro
I heared that allot of times.
But i have found ppl saying this suddenly cant hear the difference anymore between a vinyl recorded to CD and the original vinyl when doing an A-B test.
also, bit depth has nothing to do with alliasing. Adding more steps will make the aliassing finer and thus less noticable but it wont prevent it.
Its all in the head, except for the 'extra precense' which are artifact because of physical limits of vinyl.
Capeau 2 weeks ago
@BadEditPro
Also, when something gets mastered for vinyl allot of the frequencies get cut off because the physical limitations of vinyl.
Capeau 2 weeks ago
@BadEditPro
Nobody can hear it. It's outside the range of human hearing.
Mortison77577 4 days ago
@Capeau
Play a properly pressed, prefessionally cleaned, record on a Clearaudio Statement turntable, with the Statement linear tracking tonearm, AirTight cartridge, Aestehtix Jupiter serious gear, Wilson Max 3 speakers, Shunyata V-Ray and power cords, and TARA Labs interconnects, for a reality check. You will hear how inferior today's digital is compared to analog done right.
Many other configurations, of much lesser cost, will also blow away anything digital.
misterplops 1 day ago
@Capeau
If you hear artifacts, or warmth, then you either have a bad and/or dirty pressing, a poorly set-up turntable, or massed produced gear.
When analog is done right, there is no warmth or color; just accurate playback of the original performance. You need quailty (often expensive) gear (that gets along) to achieve this. Once achieved, you will recognize all of the faults of even the best digital gear.
Most people have never heard this quality gear, or even knows that it exists.
misterplops 1 day ago
@misterplops
you obviously dont know/understand what you are talking about. There will always be innacuracies when pressing vinyl
Capeau 23 hours ago
Well said, well done. I am curious what audio system you did your critique with? I am a vintage Jbl man and I try to use amps and source components similar to recording studios. Eg Perreaux, Crown, Australian Monitor. MP3 is even more depressing so come the revolution. Bring back real hifi.
phatjbl 1 month ago
if lp's are made rigth they will sound bether then digital compresses cd's. but lp's are expensive
MrPlaystationboy 1 month ago
perfect example..bob seger's nine tonight. for 20 plus years we had to put up with the 'edited for cd'' version of let it rock..then 20 years later we FINALLY get it remastered but yet again let it rock is STILL edited in favor of a bonus song..i just don't get it.
manorguy3 2 months ago
I think you make some very interesting points. I bitterly regret selling so many LP's and singles back in the 1980's when the compact disc was the "bright shiny future"...which it turned out not to be! Mind you i've learned my lesson many times over! I should have used my ears more!
TheRickynow 2 months ago
But I forgot to mention that this year marks the 30th anniversary of the Compact Disc since it was first introduced back in 1982. I will make a video of that soon to see which format is better, CD or vinyl. We'll find out!
GEWildcatRocks 2 months ago
The reasons I like CD's, because I picked up a 50-pack CD-R's at Target yesterday, but this is the one that I had never bought in a while. I have to make CD's from a vinyl LP. I have too many LP's in my collection, but it took too much space. So I decided to get rid of them before making a CD. I like both a lot better.
GEWildcatRocks 2 months ago
do you have a good tube DAC?
jetset808 2 months ago
Hi BadEditPro. Really enjoyed your video and hearing your thoughts.
Im a music producer and agree with what your saying. Your touching on some very complex issues. For me, the worst period of music recording was between 1996-2007. It coincided with a time when computers became powerful enough to run 'plugins'. Plugins cover the whole spectrum - virtual instruments, virtual mixing desks, compression, eq, effects etc. These are entirely digital...and often modelled on 'vintage' gear...
DIGITALSCREAMS 2 months ago
@DIGITALSCREAMS The problem with plugins is that they sound inferior to the analog equipment they try to emulate. In alot of cases they remove the need for session musicians - piano, orchestral, percussion, drums, guitar you name it...its been emulated. Why has this happened? Record companies have always looked for ways to reduce the costs associated with producing an album/single. 90% of the budget is now spent on marketing and music videos. This trend started in 1983 with MTV...
DIGITALSCREAMS 2 months ago
@DIGITALSCREAMS Factor in the birth of the internet in '92 and digital downloads/piracy and you can begin to see why the major record labels deceased their investment in artists and production values. It was sold to the masses as 'convenience' but in reality...the end user suffered with an inferior product. As said earlier 1996-2007 was the DARK period for music recordings. Trust your ears, you can hear it. Avoid the 'remasters' during this period...
DIGITALSCREAMS 2 months ago
@DIGITALSCREAMS If your wanting the 'best' versions of your favourite tracks then you need to buy it on LP. Anything up until 1985 will sound very good. CD's sounded pretty good up until around 1995. Between 1996-2007 CD's sounded their worst. Since 2007 CD's have dramtically improved. A trend set to continue especially now more and more artists are going back to LP's.
Vinyl as a format will always be the preferred choice amongst music lovers and audiophiles. TRUST YOUR EARS.
DIGITALSCREAMS 2 months ago
@DIGITALSCREAMS Amen! I avoid post 1995 CD's like the plague... I was programming radio station during that period and I couldn't believe how crushed and gritty most of the new stuff coming in sounded. It got worse as time went on and I started wishing I could get un-squashed copies to play on the air but the record companies were sending out the same crap to radio that they were selling to consumers and it just sounded terrible when you put a new song up against a well mastered oldie. :) JC
BadEditPro 2 months ago
@DIGITALSCREAMS I agree... Some people go plug-in crazy and if they come upon something new, they got to use it on everything they do for a month. I have used Adobe Audition for years and I've played with a lot of VST plug-ins for it. I was never all that impressed and found the basic EQ, compression and limiting built in to the program to be adequate most of the time. Digital is not evil, it's just been misused by a lot of folks lately. :) JC
BadEditPro 2 months ago
great video by the way i enjoyed it
respinozaaudio 2 months ago
im an audio engineer a young one at that so im in this environment where micro editing and over compression is a standard practice be it the client or the labels wishes for it to be "louder" but if i ever develop my ears enough to become a mastering engineer i feel its wiser to find a mastering house where they still cut to vinyl. the art form of cutting a record to vinyl is an art form that cant be lost for the sake of convenience.
respinozaaudio 2 months ago
@respinozaaudio Thanks! A little tweaking is not a bad thing, even for vinyl. It's just that they carry it way to far these days. I just wish the remastering engineers would go get a clean first pressing and listen to it first. I can't tell you the number of times I've heard an original record and said, "Oh, that's what that's supposed to sound like." :) JC
BadEditPro 2 months ago
@respinozaaudio holy words, bro in rhythm :)
sardhouse76 2 months ago
what about modern music which gets also released on vynil? Let's say you got a dance tune which quite often gets released on vynil and cd. would the vynil still sound better? (assuming the original tune was made digitally and it was then mastered for vynil or cd respectivly)
Xenitic 2 months ago
@Xenitic Most of the time the answer would be yes. The LP mastering process is different from CD and the end result is usually more dynamic for vinyl these days. :) JC
BadEditPro 2 months ago 2
@BadEditPro well thats coz vynils are made for clubs and coz they got their own limiters there they dont want to oversquash the dynamic range (which however is so common today since so many people dj from mp3s and cds........). Assuming we would just put the unmastered mixdown on vynil or cd (no bus compression/limiting etc) i mean? vynil still better?
Xenitic 2 months ago
@Xenitic I was referring to audiophile grade records but DJ's don't want to much limiting, either. Its not so much the compression on the bus that is the problem. It's the hyper-limiting used when CD's are mastered. They really crush all the life out of the audio in that step these days. :) JC
BadEditPro 2 months ago
@Xenitic Modern music released on record does sound noticeably better than the CD release. The reason being (as some have already alerted to) is that the mastering process is different....way waaaayyy different. In addition, vinyl exerts its on characteristics on the finished product. There are technological/psycho acoustic reasons for this...which I cannot go into right now.
DIGITALSCREAMS 2 months ago
Amen brother!! You're dead on!! I have a very good CD player, and alot does depend on the playback equipment, but it cannot touch my vinyl rig in terms of musical involvement. CD proponents go back to the same old arguements, i.e low noise floor, no crackeling, ease of use etc.
olaniyi570 2 months ago
You have quite the radio voice!
Jeremiah12345678910 2 months ago 7
@Jeremiah12345678910 Thank You! :) JC
BadEditPro 2 months ago
Comment removed
Jeremiah12345678910 2 months ago
preach on brother, preach on!
johnfloy 2 months ago
Agree with you on this. I keep searching for a good sounding cd, but guess what, that's an oxymoron. There ain't no such thing. The best sounding LP's I own is a late 60's version of John Coltrane's Giant Steps and a Les Paul engineered record of Joe Bushkin solo piano. These two recordings should be mandatory study for any sound engineer.
themajorchord 3 months ago
@SegaAM3Live Sounds good to me! CD's have their place... :) JC
BadEditPro 3 months ago
@SegaAM3Live Go find someone who has a good setup and sit down and listen for a while. What you say is true if you've never heard how good vinyl can be because all you've seen is old cheap systems. There's more to it than numbers and it's true that CD's don't have wow & fluster; they have jitter, which is worse. CD's don't have surface noise; they have aliasing errors, which is worse. I could go on... CD's are fine in their place but for real hi-fi vinyl is better. :) JC
BadEditPro 3 months ago
removing a pop is butchering history?... a little much.
jaretthale78 3 months ago
Michael Jackson Thriller CD Of 2001?
wtbsfan 3 months ago
and , of course, grat music, i have 3000 records at home, and i'm still buying vinyl. (2011)
sardhouse76 3 months ago
holy words!!! i totally agree
sardhouse76 3 months ago
I always think CD/digital versions of songs that were on an vinyl sound a bit sluggish like David Bowie's album Let's Dance. On vinyl it sounds so smooth and has a lot of depth but on a compact disc it's slower and sounds very 2 dimensional.
JaemzStar 3 months ago
"What has happened to the ears of engineers"?
.
It's the iPod.
.
Artists want their music to be loud, for today's youth. They want their songs to be louder than, or at least equally loud to, the rest of the iPod listener's catalog. They achieve this, at the cost of fidelity, with massive compression -- so every part of the song plays at a similar volume.
.
Most artists demand it in pursuit of sales. So the studios must comply.
.
What a shame.
NoEgg4u 3 months ago
Most vinyl pressings suck -- especially today's represses.
.
The best Beatles' records, for example, (potentially) sound better on UK pressings vs. US pressings.
.
No two pressings sound alike. In fact, side 1 might sound great, and side 2, of the same record, might sound lousy. I have gone through numerous pressings, of the same album, to land a quality pressing.
.
After you listen to a "pressing done right", you will never want to listen to digital again.
NoEgg4u 3 months ago 8
@NoEgg4u i agree with no two lps sound alike.i had a great sounding steely dan royal scam lp.it ended up lost so i got another.it just sounded awful.after two more copies i found a good one.As far as cd sound quali]y,the best ive heard is the new remastered beatle cds
2574mcu 1 month ago
@NoEgg4u
I agree
I've picked up some re-issues & some of them are really quiet & fuzzy .....
CanadianChronic2121 1 day ago
Very informative. Thank you for the education. I'm just about to get into records myself.
cam2d2 4 months ago
Fantastic video! I grew up with cd's and just recently bought my first turntable. I had no idea what I was missing. The sound on an lp is alive. Digital can't hold a candle to it.
westernNYnativ 4 months ago
Your so correct. The record industry is demonic. We in the UndaGround do the best production. We know.
TheRautib 4 months ago
I sold all my records at the end of eighties. A few years later I have bought a CD player and started to collect CD-s. I was not happy with the sound so changed my players several times, I have also listened to hi-rez digital players at my audio club. The penny dropped when I have listened to a record player, it was like coming home. What I was looking for was all there. I have bought my favorite tonearm two record players (kept one of them) and and regularly attended to record fairs. The end
kenguru55 5 months ago
I sold all my records at the end of eighties.
A few years later I have bought a CD player and started to collect CD-s. I was not happy with the sound so changed my players several times, I have also listened to hi-rez digital players at my audio club. The penny dropped when I have listened to a record player, it was like coming home. What I was looking for was all there. I have bought my favorite tonearm two record players (kept one of them) and and regularly attended to record fairs. The end
kenguru55 5 months ago
Joe ... Absolutely fascinating report. All should commend you for your research. However, you mentioned there being some type of non-technical difference between the version of a song on a "45" and the version released on LPs. Is the difference in the length? I didn't catch what that non-technical difference is.
tonyny77 5 months ago
@tonyny77 I was referring to different mixes that are issued exclusively as singles. The single version of a hit song can sound very different from the version that appears on the LP. Unfortunately, many producers have opted to put out the LP versions on updated CD releases of greatest hits collections. This makes finding the original version very difficult these days. :) JC
BadEditPro 5 months ago
@BadEditPro - Thanks kindly for your reply. I don't know nearly as much on this topic as you, but I'm going to guess why the LP and "45" versions might differ. These are just my wild guesses: (1) PERHAPS the dynamic range is adjusted to accommodate tighter groove spacing on the LPs, or (2) Having less consideration these days, they just don't care much about the art or historical accuracy. In either case, it's hardly an excuse. I lack your qualifications, but I support your views on this issue.
tonyny77 5 months ago
Fantastic video.
DJDDT 5 months ago
Record an LP into 44 kHz wav. Conduct a blind test comparing the wav and the LP. You won't tell the difference.
Zephear 6 months ago
@Zephear I can. :) JC
BadEditPro 6 months ago 3
@BadEditPro sorry, but I don't belive it until I see it :) I might be wrong and you have special hearing, but 99.99% ppl won't tell the difference even on a good sound system.
Zephear 6 months ago
@Zephear If you A/B the audio from a 44.1/16 wave and the original analog, the digital copy sounds thin and gritty, even with really good converters. (Unfortunately, I can't demonstrate it on YT because all the audio is at 44/1!) I have been able to get better results by recording the source at 96/32 then carefully dithering it down to 44.1/16 after a little sweetening for level, balance and EQ. 96/32 seems to capture more of the depth and sheen of the original. :) JC
BadEditPro 6 months ago
@BadEditPro did you do a blind test?
Zephear 6 months ago
i agree vinyl sounds superior to cd's. the music is in the grooves. vinyl feels real sounds real and has a personality that a cd will never have. if i listen to cds on my home system after about 10 minutes i have to turn it off, it just starts to drone on my head and is uncomfortable to listen to. the only good aspect of a cd is its.....well i cant think of one. i love vinyl, always have and always will. my friends are shocked when they here my system playing vinyl,man that sound better than cd
1979bird 6 months ago
Oh! And I almost forgot! How could you forget the beauty of a giant LP cover. The covers are extraordinary. They're a fucking work of art. You can look at them all day.
dirtynuke 6 months ago
There is nothing, nothing like the sound of fresh vinyl. Even the smell is intoxicating, never mind the sound. The only sad thing about vinyl is, you can easily wear your favorite record out. Cd's have a terrible watered down sound. Vinyl is the one and only true musical format.
dirtynuke 6 months ago
Fact is you can 'feel' the music on LP.
robtorun 6 months ago
betamax > blu ra
PinoyAbnoy 6 months ago
I prefer LP's but you can't play an LP in a car believe me I would if i could do that, but CD's are the next option, I agree with the guy who said if you take care of a CD it never wears out. I used to put everything on cassettee when I bought an LP i'd record it to cassette. Cd's are a modern version of cassette to me.
nigletgook 7 months ago
i useually dont buy cds. i ve been buying vinyl records for years. like the new avenged sevenfold album, ive got it on lp
fortifythamind 7 months ago
Dude, you have done an awesome job! Bottom line quantity over quality.
Jrburrow 7 months ago
@Jrburrow Thanks... This is one of the crappiest looking videos I've ever posted and it's one of the most watched. :) JC
BadEditPro 7 months ago
The funny thing is that both formats have their pluses and minuses. CD's if taken care of properly never wear out, they sound great and they are smaller and easy to store. Vinyl sounds great, if not a little better, but they wear out and aren't practical to take places. I have heard CD's that sound better than it's vinyl counterpart and I've heard vinyl that sounds better than a CD.
jerrytimes 7 months ago
according to some videos on youtube Records actually have better audio than CD's in like the Hz or something. like while the CD's are cut off at a certain range Records keep on going.
thelasthallow 7 months ago
@RandomConcepts
Vinyl record is something attractive, cd is not. Period.
CitizenofTatooine 8 months ago
CD = dried fart in tin can.
TheRichcolours 8 months ago 2
Really indepth and articulate video, I really appreciate it!
TheFlexon 8 months ago
@TheFlexon Thanks! It's not the best produced but it has certainly been the most controversial I've ever posted. :) JC
BadEditPro 8 months ago
@RandomConcepts For me, it's about resolution. Digital has an effect where a sound that is slightly in the background seems to be far away with little detail. This makes the audio sound flat and lifeless. Even compressing it won't bring it back. Analog is detailed at any level so even if the audio is more dynamic than the CD counterpart there's still depth and detail that the "hyper-compressed" CD doesn't reveal. :) JC
BadEditPro 8 months ago
@BadEditPro To me vinyl is better for the same reason, it sounds more natural where a digital copy sounds flat and distant no matter how good the quality is. Today I used a vinyl copy of Oval's 94 Diskont album (check it out, if you glitchy/ambient music) and it was almost like the sound wasn't being played from anything at all but being generated from the space around me, it became the empty space in the room as if it was physically there. When I listen to the same album in a digital format
squezey1 8 months ago
@squezey1 all of that seemed to be lost. I could tell it was just coming from the speakers and wasn't really able to completely appreciate the track in the same way, didn't have any real life to it. Digital is processed while analog is transferred directly to the speaker and into the air, like I said before it is organic, sound being generated from fine carvings in a surface through a speaker is all it is.
squezey1 8 months ago
@squezey1 Well put! :) JC
BadEditPro 8 months ago
Digital music never wears out if you take the precaution to back it up in a lossless format. There is a dandy free program called Exact Audio Copy that works like a charm.
JiveDadson 8 months ago
Digital is better than analog if the digital version was not mutilated at the mastering console, and if the stereo system it is played back on is top notch.
JiveDadson 8 months ago
Maybe what you like is harmonic distortion.
Some CD's do indeed suck canal water. The most egregious example of historical inaccuracy is of course the "loudness war" compression in the re-mastered versions, even on music that was originally issued on CD. I was happy to find used CD's on Amazon.
JiveDadson 8 months ago
Comment removed
JiveDadson 8 months ago
Recently bought a Denon DP-300F turntable, Shure M97xE cartridge and a Bellari VP130 tube phono preamp. The music sounds more enjoyable from this setup than from digital format. Soothing to the ears. But couldn't someone just turn down the treble on their receiver and get the same warm effect as vinyl?
JOURN3YMAN 8 months ago
@JOURN3YMAN As you listen, you're going to start to notice more depth to the audio. It's more than just tonal balance. There is actually more resolution on vinyl than CD can reproduce. Cymbals are clearer, reverb seems to be fuller and little sounds in the mix seem clearer and more detailed. The M97xE is a very warm cart. Put an Audio-Technica AT120E on the same setup and you're going to get the same crispness as CD but with more detail. :) JC
BadEditPro 8 months ago
@RandomConcepts Instead of quoting Wikipedia, I would suggest you spend some time listening to a well setup phono system. The numbers don't tell it all. CD has a very wide dynamic range but the loss of detail in quiet passages due to lack of resolution inherent with 16 bit digital ruins any real illusion of depth. This is why dithering and compression are used in CD mastering. Even so, the end product sounds one dimensional compared to high resolution analog. Listen and hear for yourself.
BadEditPro 9 months ago
@BadEditPro
What I interpreted from "Digital Audio" on Wikipedia is that part of the reason LPs sound better is because digitally, there's a small "step"" between each signal level caused by rounding, while the analog signal is much more fluid.
This next part is my own opinion, but another reason could be that the analog medium has had enough time to be perfected, while the digital medium has been around for a shorter amount of time and there hasn't really been a push to improve it.
poddish 8 months ago
@RandomConcepts The reviewer just came into a cache of pristine radio promotional 45 singles from the 70's and 80's that were mind blowingly clear and clean. The depth and detail that came off of those disks far exceeds anything he's ever heard from any of the digital copies that have been released of these songs and that includes professional releases intended for broadcast. The reviewer could not disagree with your analyses more. :) JC
BadEditPro 9 months ago
I've noticed that if I play my guitar along with an LP eg. Harvest - Neil Young they will be slightly of key from each other. My guitar is perfectly in tune, but its almost as if the LP is turning a fraction too slow to be in perfect key ?
KyleB1988 9 months ago
@KyleB1988 Check the speed on your turntable. You might be running a tad slow. :) JC
BadEditPro 9 months ago
This is a good video. I'm getting a vinyl record player for my birthday. Though, I have heard 24-bit 96 Khz recordings and they sounded pretty good to me. I'll be honest, I started off my music collection with pirated Mp3 files. Then I actually bought a CD, and since I had a surround sound in my room (just got a new better one since old one was lightning struck), and it DID sound better than Mp3. Now, I rarely use Mp3s except portably. Now i'm getting into LPs - all legal music o LP & CD for me!
DerPoltergeist13 9 months ago
@DerPoltergeist13 You're hooked now. Once you get to hear what real quality sounds like there's no going back. :) JC
BadEditPro 9 months ago
@BadEditPro I got th record player today.. I'm testing it out, then away for my birthday (I'm turning 21 and am still at home). Even though I got a cheap one, it sounds pretty good. I have Permanent Waves from Rush on CD and Vinyl, so I'll be doing some comparing them. CDs are wonderful, but Vinyl will definitely have a greater presence in my collection. More and more music that is modern and new is being put on vinyl, and older stuff being re manufactured.. Vinyl is making a come back. bye mp3!
DerPoltergeist13 9 months ago
Interesting video, by the way i like your voice, reminds me of those 40's or 50's tv shows :D
manueex 9 months ago
@manueex Thanks! :) JC
BadEditPro 9 months ago
SOME OF MY TEACHERS!SOME OF MY MENTORS THEY ARE OLD AND THEY WILL END UP DOING SOMETHING ELSE.PEOPLE BECOME MORE PREOCUPATE TO SURVIVE THIS DAYS !HAVE SOMETHING TO EAT!TO MAKE A AUDIO MATERIALS REQUIET TO PAY ELECTRICAL CURRENT ALSO, AND SOW MANY MANY THINGS...SOW VINYL SINCE NOW SONIC IT IS THE BEST CAPTURE!EVER MADE!
soulessdelu 9 months ago
I WILL SIRE IF THERE IT WILL BE A INDUSTRY IN MUSIC AND FILM EDITING NEXT TO MUSICAL FILM TRACK I WILL!THAT S WAY I INVEST MY LIFE IN IT!IT IS THE MOST PRECIOUS GIFT FROM GUD !TIMES!YOU SIRE HAVE A FORTUNE THERE!LISTEN MATERIALS THIS DAYS!!!THE SONGS THIS DAY HAVE NOTHING !NO MELO,NO FEEL,NO SONIC,NO FUTURE!I EVEN WANT TO RELOCATE MYSELF DEFYNITLY FROM ROMANIA TO LUXEMBOURG AND TRY TO DO SOMETHING THERE! BECAUSE MUSIC ENVOLVED PEOPLE AND IT MADE FOR PEOPLE AND HERE IS HARD TO DO THAT!
soulessdelu 9 months ago
HY !i heear saying something about us recording engyneer .Nothing happend with our ears the sistem my brother.the customers thats mean clients simply don-t care or the mass media equipment.i love to make it all of my masters in LP belevmeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! because we are tray to do our best !we can heeae imense ,huuuuuuuuuuge diference in quality ,but the industries is kiling us,litlle by litlle,include throw this sick internet sound.internet sound sucks in esence !I LOVE YOU MAN !!
soulessdelu 9 months ago
@soulessdelu I am well aware of what's happening... It must be very frustrating to take something that's clean and have to limit the hell out of it just to make some idiot who says, "I want it LOUD" happy. Fight the good fight where and when you can. :) JC
BadEditPro 9 months ago
Do you mind listing those Long Plays?
Morahman7vnNo2 9 months ago
This is a great video. I have a feeling vinyl will always be pressed, but CD's may go away in the near future. That said, some albums and songs, I actually prefer on CD. I feel that CD has a better frequency response in certain areas of the audio spectrum. For other albums and songs I prefer vinyl. One day I have to get a real vinyl collection going. People are starting to learn of the recent mistakes in mastering audio, you are right, young people have to learn and fix this.
KCJacksonMuz 9 months ago
@KCJacksonMuz Have no fear... CD'swill be around for a long, long time. Like the LP record, they are a firmly entrenched technology. :) JC
BadEditPro 9 months ago
@BadEditPro I totally agree with you, but I still prefer to listen to my music on CD/MP3. I like to listen to the songs as they were suppose to be heard, not the songs with wow/flutter, sibilence, surface noise, etc. And , also, syli are getting really hard to get hold of (well in the UK anyway,) and very expensive! So, sorry, I will always buy the CD version of any album rather than vinyl.
As a side note, love your audio on this video! Sounds like you are speaking through a telephone!!
yogibear2k10 9 months ago
@BadEditPro Also, sorry, not spamming, just another point. Why are audio cassettes not ever mentioned anymore either? I Also reckon they were better sounding than any vinyl too. I am not knoking vinyl, honestly, but audio casettes never seem to get a look in nowadays. I really do miss having a tape deck and prefered the warmth of cassette over vinyl harshness and even cd's! Its a real pity that cassettes died! Are you ever going to compare them too?
yogibear2k10 9 months ago
@yogibear2k10 It depends on what part of the world you're in. Cassettes are still very popular in Mexico and throughout South America. I've posted a ton of vids on them, too. I just haven't come across any really interesting tape related stuff lately. :) JC
BadEditPro 9 months ago
What equipment are you using to play CDs? what kind of transport? What kind of DAC? Sure, a good quality turntable, tonearm, cartridge combination with a nice preamp, will sound better than a cheap CD player, but have you done a head to head with high-end digital reproduction technology?
digimaton 9 months ago
@digimaton Right now, I have Teac and Optimus CD players with 4x oversampling and both have analog filters. I have found that analog filtering is sonically much better than digital. When I worked in radio, I mostly used Denon professional players costing in the thousands. I have used pro digital recorders and editors since the early 90's. Digital can sound very good but there's a presence that's always lost when compared to really good analog even at high bit rates.. :) JC
BadEditPro 9 months ago
@digimaton GOod point! Not only that, but think how much would a good qaulity tone are, turntable etc. cost compared to getting the same sound from a cd player? A hell of a lot more! And there is no way of getting rid of surface noise no matter how much you pay!! I must admit that I do like listening to my old vinyl, but when I get the same ablum on cd I never listen to the vinyl again because I just can't stand the quality! I much prefer CD! It sounds so much more real than vinyl.
yogibear2k10 9 months ago
Comment removed
digimaton 9 months ago
@yogibear2k10 boils down to dynamic range, try listening to something by Salvatore Sciarrino on vinyl, impossible, unless you are happy incorporating surface noise into the listening experience. Yes one could invest in a high-end record cleaner by Loricraft or suchlike and clean before every listen, or even buy a laser turntable, but for that kind of money (not including the rest of the gear) you could get a seriously good transport/DAC combo.
digimaton 9 months ago
@MintVinyl don't you have one in your computer?
Paspiedreamcast 10 months ago
Ha! Used to have plenty of those discs in my collection. :)
Ragarms 10 months ago
I don't have a CD player!
MintVinyl 10 months ago
OK, above. So, as I was saying, I checked out CBAT and the vinyl beat the CD. However, listening the Royal Scam I would say the CD beats the vinyl, so it's not every album that sounds better. Here are a few I have found to be outstanding on vinyl: The Yes Album, The Hissing of Summer Lawns, Troubadour (JJ Cale) , Innervisions (Stevie), Hendrix In The West, Still Crazy (Paul Simon).
NickDuvet 11 months ago
@NickDuvet Comparing Steely Dan issues is up and down because it all depends on when it was released. I have noticed that the MCA re-issues on vinyl tend to sound better than the original ABC versions. :) JC
BadEditPro 11 months ago
Thanks for this. I too have gone back to owning as turntable for the first time in 25 years and I am amazed at how much better some vinyls albums sound. The music sounds more alive, like you say as if you are listening in on the artists actually playing it. I wanted to be sure I wasn't fooling myself into believing this so I did some comparisons. An American pressing of Steely Dan's Can't Buy A Thrill sounds brighter and with cleaner separation than the Citizen version (more below)
NickDuvet 11 months ago
The only way to prove Vivyl sounds better is to listen to it by yourself...
Llucius1 11 months ago
Wondered if anyone could answer my question.. I don't doubt analogue recorded audio played back on an analogue format is superior to its digital counterpart. But. What about digitally recorded material then pressed to vinyl?
elliotnicklin 11 months ago
@elliotnicklin LP's mastered from digital are usually done from very high resolution 96/24 digital master recordings played back on equipment that costs many thousands of dollars. You simply can't reproduce digital with that kind of accuracy at home but the LP's mastered that way can. :) JC
BadEditPro 11 months ago
Let them say CD is better.... forgive them..they really do not know what they are saying..they had not the chance to realise the real thing.... vinyl recording from the sixties, made using tube equipment, beats CD easy...try Bert Kaempfert discs if you have not already made.....nice ones
destroyersoueu 11 months ago
@destroyersoueu Thanks! I don't totally shun CD... I just keep it's limitations in mind. :) JC
BadEditPro 11 months ago
@destroyersoueu Yeah, the record picks up ALL the sounds, really. It's made specifically for the human ear. CDs are digital, and only pick up whatever sounds the bit is at. So records are better quality, but CDs are portable, last longer (depending on how you handle em), and don't degrade over a period of time. And if you scratch a record, your going to hear that noise. On a CD, you won't. Those are pretty much... the differences. So, records are better for at home, CDs, anywheres else.
KyleSurette13 9 months ago
Vinyl sounds better... reason why is the convertion and sampling.... audio waves are very complex, not possible to 192 sampling or even higher to copy and restore these informations from analog to digital and them back to analog once again...no chance to CD, even better recording, looseless recordings alike Flac and other sampling methods..no way....sound today is made to the majority of deaf listeners..they want distortions and to listen loud. sensitive listener cannot tollerate CD and MP3
destroyersoueu 11 months ago
what about the thriller album? is it better on cd or vinyl?
blancman 11 months ago
@blancman Depending what pressing you have of the CD and the LP it just about breaks even. My 2008 LP has more detail than the 1990 CD version I have. :) JC
BadEditPro 11 months ago
@blancman niether, its better in the garbage can!
hifijohn 11 months ago
The CDs from the early 80s were often made with the master of the LP - including the eq-changes made for the LP (due to limitatedions fo the LP)
saemikneu 11 months ago
@saemikneu The obly company that did that with any regularity was Columbia. They were in such a rush to get the product out they didn't do the tape research to find the original masters. The entire Simon & Garfunkel catalog was issued this way. Those CD's sound awful! However, many from the period were done right and hold up today. You just gotta know what you're looking for. :) JC
BadEditPro 11 months ago
You talk a lot about the musical experience being better when listening to a Vinyl record. Would this also apply to a lossless digital rip of the Vinyl? Because then you do listen to a digitalized version of it and not an analog.
Folstream 11 months ago
@Folstream Even 24-bit 192 Khz is lossy, because anything not captured by the 24/192 recording is lost. However, 192 Khz is far beyond human hearing, and vinyl captures up to about 60 Khz I believe, so you won't REALLY notice any difference. Digital is still lossy compared to analog because even at high resolutions it takes snapshots of it. But its kind of like HDTV, more pixels = more realistic. But neither high res screens or audio will beat actually hearing it or seeing it for real.
DerPoltergeist13 9 months ago
I like the scratchy sound. Its classy, but every kid at my school has an ipod, and sure records cant travel with you, but listening to them gives you a real "artist" feeling.
Jx8o5 1 year ago
@Jx8o5 Well maintained records played with a good setup are not scratchy... For an iPod, I say digital is just fine. Records are for serious listening on a real hi-fi system at home. Unfortunately, music is background noise for most folks today. :) JC
BadEditPro 1 year ago
This is vaguely similar to the 'film vs digital' camera debate, the only thing most people care to think about is the age of the technology. Shame really.
Paspiedreamcast 1 year ago
People actually took time to master LPs well, I too being a digital guy was blown away when I discovered that LPs do in fact sound better than CDs. I'm a die hard Tool fan, I own multiple copies of each of their albums and I own 3 of their vinyls. The first one was Opiate. I've listened to the CD countless times. When I listened to the vinyl for the first time... Simply mindblowing. Crystal clear vocals, nice clean bass, and the live tracks are to die for.
MrMario2011 1 year ago
@MrMario2011 I have heard the same sort of story a lot since I posted this video. Once you hear really good audio, you're hooked and nothing else will do :) JC
BadEditPro 1 year ago
@BadEditPro I actually got interested in vinyl when I was about 8 or 9, then after a few years of not touching them my dad threw them all away :( When I went back, my turntable was really messed up. My friend told me it wouldn't be worth fixing, just a few months ago I finally got another turntable so I'm back on vinyl :) I never noticed SQ when I was a kid, so it's really nice going back and checking them out now.
MrMario2011 1 year ago
I have loved records since I was a little kid. And I will love them long past when my children, and their children, are telling me I must be completely ancient! I mean, I'm listening to something that wasn't made for a computer! Right now, in fact, I'm listening to Kenny Rogers' Love will turn you around, 1982. If I could go back for a little while...I so would.
Bobassa0903 1 year ago
@Bobassa0903 Me, too. I'm glad I went back to them after 17 years. It's been a lot of fun. By the way, that song is particularly hard to find on CD. :) JC
BadEditPro 1 year ago
I got the michael jackson's off the wall(1979) TAPE(August 10,1979) & CD(October 19, 2001)
wtbsfan 1 year ago
[jc should sticky this post]
i can't give two shits if anybody is titillated over digital. the real root cause for quarreling comparisons is that every TECHNOLOGY is corrupt. EVERYTHING is all set to expire. people can see products post twenty five plus years ago built 'better' because planned obsolescence was very slim. the going down spiral is happening and there is no return :( this of everything manufactured, not equally high quality is a DETRIMENT. the venus project (i support) shows it!
SlimeTron5000 1 year ago
@SlimeTron5000 That's an interesting point of view... :) JC
BadEditPro 1 year ago
My pet peeve is when I hear songs like "Johnny B. Goode" on an oldies station with saturated reverb and hollow bass. No kick. Or the vocals override the complete contents of the song. Or even worse, a terribly stereo re-mix where the vocals and bass are on the left speaker, and the drums and guitars are on the right speaker.
If the record was produce for mono, it should remain mono.
richieyo2000 1 year ago
@richieyo2000 You are absolutely right. If you go back to the original 45's it's a real eye opening experience. Those records really rock and the re-masters just sound flat and lifeless. :) JC
BadEditPro 1 year ago
Most 45 where mixed in mono. Therefore these recordings were designed to sound ballsy in monophonic; to sell these records on AM radio and to playback on old, ceramic cartridge mono phonographs.
richieyo2000 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I am an originalist. Plain and simple.
I love 50s and 60s Rock 'n' Roll. The original 45 RPM record brings out the true meaning of the song of its day. Let's face it. In 1957, teens wanted to hear loud, punchy kick-ass quality just like teens today.
CD and re-issues are usually re-mastered by younger engineers who tend to thin the sound down (probably for the older folks) therefore CD compilations or re-issues of these classics are poorly mixed.
richieyo2000 1 year ago
I am an originalist. Plain and simple.
I love 50s and 60s Rock 'n' Roll. The original 45 RPM record brings out the true meaning of the song of its day. Let's face it. In 1957, teens wanted to hear loud, punchy kick-ass quality just like teens today.
CD and re-issues are usually re-mastered by younger engineers who tend to thin the sound down (probably for the older folks) therefore CD compilations or re-issues of these classics are poorly mixed.
richieyo2000 1 year ago
i wouldn't call it just a fad. i have a few LPs, and only of my fav band, cause they sound better. and for bands that cared about how the sound was (instead of just being loud), it's better. and it's easy to hear.
mangoshakess 1 year ago
@mangoshakess lol there is no such 'fad'.
the real problem is that technology is determined into the monetary system and sequence and unfortunately the side effect to the shaped corruption is 'planned obsolescence'. search it up because it is occurring constantly more than before. wait and see when all the 3G phones will be stripped into rubbish tips. making a finite sufficient, efficient and sustainable product is an enemy to profit. the venus project will fix this as all worlds will benefit!
SlimeTron5000 1 year ago
LPs are just nostalgia & retro-fad. Great! But the playback system IS key. Again, no need to go crazy on audiophile gear. In 2011, 320 mp3s can be made to sound stellar and no its not iPods. Cowon makes one that have BBE, I can't tell you how amazing that makes a lossy song sound. And I've sat in front of 200K audiophile systems, no lie.
SACD BTW does bring that sonic presence and smoothness people confuse with "warmth" closer to a vinyl experience, which LP lovers love - watching recrd plyrs.
wendileona 1 year ago
@wendileona Retro-fad? Maybe for some but most folks who hear good vinyl get hooked by the sound and it changes their perspective on music entirely. You can hear the difference or you can't. If 320 mp3's and DSP sound better to you than stick with it. I've worked with professional digital recording for more than 20 years and I can hear more depth and reality coming off of records. I don't plan on dumping my CD's and mp3's but it's nice to have an alternative to that hollow plastic sound. :) JC
BadEditPro 1 year ago
1:50 We have to go into tech-reasons because their ARE. If you listen closely, a CD player, a good one, not even a real boutique brand, elite thousand dollar one, can playback CD's in fantastic fidelity. LP's may have a smoother sound, but that also depends on the turntable and stylus... and cartridge... and tone arm... and so on.
wendileona 1 year ago
@wendileona SInce I started researching the return of vinyl, I have found that even the cheapest system beats most consumer level digital. The endless resolution and generally more 'real' sound of the LP shines through. Sure., you can spend lots of cash on a turntable but that's just going to give you a more refined sound on top of the improved listening experience. that records offer even at the basic level. :) JC
BadEditPro 1 year ago
Back in the day, most music buyers didnt clean/wash,treat their record and played all those records on any record player they bought. Not much effort or thought was placed on that. CD's were a revolution because people didn't have to baby or care or replace those worn out records again. Most just played and played them until they were all scratched.
TODAY, there's this resurgence because its hip, trendy to attain records. But most stilll dont put that effort to enjoy lps. Its a websocial thing.
wendileona 1 year ago
I have to agree that records sound a whole lot better than CD's. I own a few ABBA albums on cd and vinyl and the best description of the difference in sound is if you compare a MP3 to CD and then CD to vinyl.
What do you think?
P.S. Great video on how to clean records; I've just been collecting them from charity stores etc. so thanks for that!
trevc5197 1 year ago
@trevc5197 CD just doesn't have the depth for some kings of music. ABBA stuff is layered and they use a lot of reverb in the mixes. Those songs come across as harsh and metallic from CD while the LP's sound bright and clean. MP3's can sound just as good as the original CD as long as the audio coded well. However, most folks don't know what they are doing and end up with watery sounding MP3's. So, comparing MP3 to CD is all relative. LP beats CD almost every time. :) JC
BadEditPro 1 year ago