Pam Shriver d. Steffi Graf - 1988 Virginia Slims Championships SF @ Madison Square Garden

[cristianjavierbarboz]

AGAIN... WHAT A WOMAN.. LOVED ... AWSOM.. SHE WON.. AND WITH ALL HUMILITY.. SHE GIVES TO STEFFI A HAND WITH A "HUMILITY" FACE... WITH OUT GESTURING... AND THEN SHE RECIVE THE HUGS OF THE BALL BOYS...!!! PAM.. I LOVE YOU.

[cristianjavierbarboz]

it s seems to me or pam went to hug the ball boys when the match ends???? i love pam.. but i prefer her on the tv. .and the graf numers dont have a "head to head" .. and i love gaby and pam... i stffi too.. but.. the numers speaks ... and graf is the best... what can we do... ? all argentinians feels the painfull in 29 times (gaby`s won only 11 in head to head)

[cristianjavierbarboz]

@cristianjavierbarboz im argentinian by the way.. forget my english is horroble..

[Meade3763]

Poor Steffi! She was very ill, obviously.

Even then Shriver struggled big-time!

If you want to see what Steffi usually did with Pam in those years watch the Wimbledon semis 1987 and 1988!

[rehabboy01]

Its single, doubles, mixed doubles. 62.

[assindiastignani]

@rehabboy01 It's what Billie Jean King once said: "If you want to do down in the history books as one of the all time greats, you have to di it all: Singles, Doubles and Mixed. That's Margaret Smith Court and Martina Navratilova. Steffi was a great Singles Player. Period.

[Meade3763]

@assindiastignani

Poor Federer and Borg. Not enough mixed doubles titles. :-)

What BJ King actually thinks is on YouTube. Said live on US television. Listen and weep ...

[Meade3763]

@rehabboy01

How many mixed doubles slams are the equivalenot of, say, Sabatini's only singles slam title (USO 1990)?

50? Or 100?

[matchpointable]

To continue play after this horrible incident, just as if nothing happened showed the character of all the people involved.

[Meade3763]

@matchpointable

Yes, true grit! Sanchez, Novotna, Maleeva and Graf didn't want a lunatic let rule!!

Tough cookies, those gals. Sadly Seles was to fragile in the coming weeks and months ...

[assindiastignani]

@matchpointable You said it. Unfortunately for the Steffi Graf fanatics of the world (they're worse than the Callas Queens or Judy Garland fans) no amount of ranting and raving and foaming at the mouth is going to change it. Steffi showed a serious lack of character by playing the final. It would have been alright to play - In order not to disappoint the audience - but they should played it as an exhibition. Davvero ha fatto una brutta figura.

[Meade3763]

@assindiastignani

And what would have been the difference between an exhibition and the real final (which people had PAID for) concerning Seles?

[assindiastignani]

@Meade3763 Come on, you know the answer to that. Don't play dumb. First of all it would not have counted towards the WPT rankings (Parche claimed he stabbed Monica so that Steffi could be number 1 again) and second it would have been a very commendable statement from Steffi: Tennis playing will determine the rankings, not insane terrorists other psychopaths.

[Meade3763]

@assindiastignani

With her loss to Sanchez in the Hamburg 93 final Graf's WTA point average went DOWN, you joker! As you may remember the WTA had an average-points ranking system back than.

No, you don't remember that of course. Blabbering without knowing the facts. Typical for Seles fans. Terrible!

[assindiastignani]

@Meade3763 Yes, indeed, as it happens she lost. But what if she had won? She shouldn't have played the match - it was opportunistic and showed a poor character. The irony of it is, that I am not a Seles fan. I always found her a bit strange, but that has nothing to do with this. Anyhow, once you people start with the name-calling and insults, I say "Good bye."

[Meade3763]

@assindiastignani

Steffi played often when ill or injured. In many cases she won anyway. She was so tough, had a never-say-die attitude. Showed good character.

[Meade3763]

Graf was visibly ill that day.

I don't think Shriver had the game to threaten a heathy 1988 Graf. No wonder she was blown off the court by young Sabatini the next day.

[cwinifredg]

The crowd was having a blast, thoroughly entertaining tennis! WTA SUCKS nowadays. No personalities, they all have the EXACT same game. I have been following WTA tennis for decades, and this is the worst shape it has ever been in, not to mention there are NO Americans at the top of the sport. Just horrible.

[Meade3763]

@cwinifredg

No Americans at the top of the sport is not the point.

There have been great times in women's tennis (1990s) where there were no US top players. And the men's tennis is bigger and better than ever currently without any US player being slam winning material.

[StevieNicksfann]

When did this match take place? and what streak was over when they referred to that in the commentary?

[vlovesrafa]

@StevieNicksfann .This was the season ending championships that used to be played in Madison Square Garden.This was 1988.The year that Steffi won the real Grand Slam. The Australian,The French,Wimbledon and The Us Open,plus the Olympic gold medal all in one year.

[tennisguy467564]

I wish there were more personalities like Shriver in women's tennis now. Tennis has gotta be fun for the fans, and her jokes and talking to herself made it extra fun to watch. And people say she had no groundstrokes, but she actually was pretty consistent and had a lot of variety in her shots. Some of the players now wouldn't have a clue how to hit a cut shot. Her net play was awesome and she had a ton of feel. Probably one of the best commentators on TV now as well.

[kcvcj189]

Aunt Pimmy's forehand might be one of the ugliest things I've ever seen...So, naturally, I freaking love it!! Chip & Charge, people!

[BTURNER1961]

Shriver reached # 3 in singles and had victories over them all. Its funny those who tout Martina in that doubles team forget that their opponents sent the traffic on the biggest points over to Pam because she was perceived as the more vulnerable. That Shriver and Navratilova walked away with the titles says a lot for how Pam played the big points at the biggest of matches.

[demc67]

ealry in her career- Steffi made a habit of storming off the court- she was pretty much past that by 87, but.....her nickname for years was Little Miss Saurbraten.

[Meade3763]

@demc67

I have heard her being called "Little Miss Sauerkraut" in the US during the mid-80s.

But "Sauerbraten"? I don't think so.

[Ariamaluum]

Ask Martina, what is her worst memory at the U.S. Open and its not losing to Chris, Steffi, Monica, or Tracy.

[rehabboy01]

Margaret Court accumulated 62, thats sixty two GS titles.

graffiti is NOT even half that !!

[assindiastignani]

@rehabboy01 When we're talking abt. the greatest player of all time, we need to define what it is that we're discussing: Women's Tennis or Women's Singles. As Billie Jean King once said: if you want to go down in the history books as one of the all-time greats, you have to do it all - singles, doubles and mixed. With that in mind, check the Grand Slam statistics in Women's Tennis of the past 50 years.

[Meade3763]

@assindiastignani

As Billie Jean King once said: "I think Steffi Graf is the greatest ever."

On YouTube: "Steffi Graf (BJK on Steffi)".

Watch and weep ...

[assindiastignani]

@Meade3763 So what? She also once said she thought Chrissie was the greatest, and (when she was coaching her) that Martina was the greatest of all time. The record is what counts, and that will be forever tainted by the stabbing, as will every title Steffi won after it. Sorry Meade 3763, or ist Hoffenheim or is Grafgirl (how many handles do you have anyway?!) no amount of wishful thinking can change history.

[Meade3763]

@assindiastignani

BJK said that about Evert and Navratilova far earlier.

At the end of Graf's career she stated the obvious - Graf is the greatest of all time.

Although Evert and Navratilova are her compatriots. Which says it all.

[rehabboy01]

@assindiastignani : its 62 pal !!! 62 both single, doubles, mixed doubles. and that number goes to....COURT !! 62!! thats......SIXTY TWO.....SIXTY TWO GRAND SLAM TITLES !!!

[Meade3763]

@rehabboy01

Yes, the mixed doubles title at the AO 1961 was a tough act ...

[rehabboy01]

Grafitti has always been a sore loser, angry, bitter as indicated in this match and others. She was interviewed numerous times in the past on wot shes going to do when she retires, she said 'youre not going to see me on a tennis court playing tennis'. yes, grafitti, we saw alot of YOU and andrea on the tennis court doing sum event on youtube.

And TO SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT:

Margaret Court - 24 GS SINGLE titles, 19 GS Doubles and 19 GS Mixed.

get over it.....08 !!

[Hoffenheim08]

@rehabboy01

Why didn't you rehab work, boy?

[rehabboy01]

WOW !! I heard about Pam's forehand being teased by Bud Collins and Mary Carillo BUT didnt realized how bad ( for lack of a better word ) it is. More like slicing or bunting the ball, it did the job of putting away those vicious volleys !

Relentless net attacking style by Pam - she put MN to shame, lol. Not alot of this attacking style these days, if any. Good for Pam !

[twilliger123]

@rehabboy01 I agree, people always talk about MN "carrying" Pam as 1/2 of their doubles team but that is crap, Pam was one of the last true serve and volleyers, she didn't play with pure power except for her serve, volleys and overhead (which was voted by her fellow players as the best at the height of her career). She was a smart player who rarely lost to anyone outside of the top 10.

[twilliger123]

Ignore Hoffenheim, it's one of grafgirl's many pseud accounts because everyone is sick of her!

[JBlue1982]

Pam took it to Steffi and threw everything she had at her. Pam did a great job of attacking the Graf backhand, as only a serve and volley player can do. I bet Martina gave her some tips before this match.

[kljMN2]

I wish that there were clips up of Evert vs Shriver from the '78 USO final...

[kljMN2]

1988 was such a boring year in tennis, at least on the WTA side.

[spacecolt]

@kljMN2 As Chrissie said mid-way thru 1988, Sabatini had beaten Graf twice already, Chris had beaten Martina twice already, and yet Graf & Martina were 1 & 2... seemed like a wide open year between the top 4 for the first time in 14 years!

[dtw1958]

Pam beat Chris for the first time was it in this tourney's quarter-finals??

[thequinnster72]

@dtw1958 Actually no.  Pam beat Chris at the '87 Canadian Open (Semis) and again in the '87 VS of New England Final. It was the 3rd time here.

[ajoysid]

i like shriver's volleys... shes rushing to the net on almost every single point... luv it!

[and26rip]

serves are nothing

[grafgirl27]

@twilliger123 I agree with most of what you said except for the part of Pam being #3 in the World for most of her career. She was only very briefly ranked that high and her highest ever year end ranking was #4. Hana Mandlikova was clearly the 3rd best player of the Evert-Navratilova era and almost always ranked above Pam. Pam was still an underrated singles player though who was consistent and solid and who pulled the odd surprise like this match and others.

[twilliger123]

@grafgirl27 Wow grafgirl we actually agree on something, lol. I didn't say most, I said alot of her career. She was #3 or 4 and stayed within the top 10 for many years. I agree, she was underrated, I think her shoulder injury prevented her from really challenging Chris and Martina more.

[mor2thepnt]

Pammy was great....she won 21 singles tournaments and had wins over all the greats...King, Navratilova, Graf, Austin, and Chrissie.....Steffi was a bit pissy after this loss....she matured, so that is good. Pam is a HOOT as a commentator...and her book Passing Shots from 1985 was a riot! I wished she write a full on autobiography of her tennis life!

[UrbanHippyMiami]

Wow, what an interesting match. Didn't get to see it when it first aired. Thanks for posting this. How is it that Steffi lost this match the year she won the golden slam? Very perplexing. Anyhow, I noticed she used quite a bit of topspin backhands. Didn't see her use it as much in her later years. Also quite a contrast in terms of power. Seems Graf had a lot more power behind her shots in her later years.

[Hoffenheim08]

@UrbanHippyMiami

Steffi was ill that day, played with fever.

Her doc advise her not to play but she thought she might beat a Shriver anyway.

[darius3000]

@twilliger123 I second ganging up on MisterMusic74 for his irreverant comments against Pam Shriver. MisterMusic, I hope you never meet Pam Shriver face to face, because she's going to know about your comments and she will make you pay!!!!

[tennisfan087]

thank you for posting this!! :)

[MrNoDiRi]

massive win for Pammie!

[sp8211a]

Graf was sick with the flu...it was amazing she was able to play that well...Pam wrote this win for years....in all of her commentary, she mentions it ALL the time..

[MisterMusic74]

@twilliger123 I have reached a lot in my life ;-) ... and believe me.. Im not a Graf über fan! I respect and like lots of players.

[MisterMusic74]

@twilliger123 yes i like her serve and volley game but as a complete player she is still a joke for me. How can you have no real groundstrokes and reach number 3 in the world? the time was different - but today is would be not possible! graf still could play on the tour - even though she would not reach the top 15 again but her game was and is much more complete.

[MisterMusic74]

pam shirver is a joke of a player. she wasnt able to hit one real topspin shot. yes steffi had problems losing matches thats just because she was so ambitious and she always worked hard. when steffi lost against someone like pam shirver or lori mc neil she lost because she made too many errors. if graf played 100% nobody could beat her.

[DreamObscene]

I love that Pam hugs the ball people at the end of the clip.  :)

[leandrodsa]

remember that Pam had defeated Chris Evert in the quarterfinals, playing a great game too. Then fall in the final against Gabriela Sabatini

[leandrodsa]

thank you very very much for this posting!!! I wanted to see a little few points of this match again. This is the way I remember Pam, that was the day I knew about her. You know something??? Martina Navratilova and Pam Shriver were the best doubles team in women TENNIS HISTORY and there is no video in all youtube we can see them in action. Have you got some video of this unparalleled team?? I never see them both in action!! thankssssssssssss

[Hoffenheim08]

Graf was very ill, she shouldn't have played at all that day.

[lollipopdouche]

how is steffi being sour walking off like that-what do you want her to do-she lost shook hands and left so what she's hardly gonna celebrate with shriver is she-i'd be pissed if i lost to her aswell

[jokerwildest]

@lollipopdouche As was already stated, it was protocal in these day for the competitors to walk on and off the court together, it was hallmark of the days of ladies tennis. It was very classy, not like today when the players seem all huff off the court.

[Matt31a23]

This was when Shirver was having some big wins, late in her career, much to do with the Yonex racquet I believe?

[thadxxx]

go pam. so happy for her to beat Graf in her grand slam year. Graf was a bit bitchy at the end

[MisterMusic74]

@thadxxx pam was a joke of a player

[karrtt1234]

Thanks for this posting. I didn't get to see this match. So this is great. Good win for Pam. I remember when Pam finally beat Chris at the Canadian Open 1987 in the semi-finals. She told the press in Toronto .." Now I can tell my grandkids that I had a win over Chris Evert". She had such a good spirit.

[spacecolt]

I love how the ballboy & girl hug Pam at the end of the match!! LOL ... that is all-time cute.

[kljMN2]

What's even more annoying than that is Steffi Graf wins all four Slams and the Olympic gold in '88 and when she actually loses a match after all that she acts like that! Typical Steffi!

[Hoffenheim08]

@kljMN2

22 slams, each won at least 4 times.

Pity, that your fave wasn't as successful as her ...

:-)))

[italo36]

@kljMN2

not to mention that Steffi won half of her 22 slams AFTER the Monica stabbing.

Steffi is a sore loser and an opportunist and never publically admitted that the stabbing helped her career bigtime and Monica would never be the same player again physically on mentally when she made her comeback in 1995.

Steffi is a sore loser and her 22 slams will always be controversial because of the Monica stabbing.

[jokerwildest]

@italo36 I also do remember that right after the stabbing, Steffi said that she wouldn't ever play the tourament again. That didn't happen.

[Hoffenheim08]

@jokerwildest

Well, because Steffi never said that.

[jokerwildest]

@Hoffenheim08 She most certainly did.

[Hoffenheim08]

@jokerwildest

Links?

[assindiastignani]

@italo36 I absolutely agree. Certainly, Steffi was not responsible for the stabbing, but she made herself partially guilty after the fact by playing the Final the next day against Sanchez-Vicario. Afterwards she claimed she played because she hadn't wanted to leave the organizers of the tournament in the lurch. Pretty feeble excuse. Everyone would have understood if she had withdrawn, or at least played an exhibition match against Sanchez in place of the final.

[Meade3763]

@assindiastignani

Don't forget the legal implications - people had paid tickets to watch the final.

And as an aside - at that day everybody was glad that nothing worse had happened to Seles than this minor flesh wound. People thought, close call for Seles, but she will be back within a few weeks. No one expected the trauma and the drama of Seles's long recovery at that point. So it is very cheap to criticise Steffi with hindsight.

[assindiastignani]

@Meade3763 You are partially right. Let's say Steffi didn't want to disappoint the spectators or leave the organisers in the lurch BUT as I said, they should have played the match as an exihibition. Everybody would have understood. What if Steffi had won? What kind of message would that have sent to other crazies in the world? What I wrote is neither cheap nor a criticism, simply an observation. People were horrified and nobody thought it was just a minor flesh wound.

[Meade3763]

@assindiastignani

Right after the stabbing the feeling prevailed that, yes, Seles had had a close call but fortunately had suffered only a minor wound. Everybody thought she would be back within a few weeks, a few months maximum. Nobody expected this drama (except Mary Carillo).

And why deny Steffi and Sanchez the chance to win the tournament? Was it their fault that Seles was stabbed???

[assindiastignani]

@Meade3763 And as it turned out, Mary Carillo was right. Smart Lady. "...the feeling prevailed...only a minor wound..." Listen to yourself. A 19 year old girl was attacked &stabbed in front of God knows how many people.That match on TV.You can twist it&turn it all you want.By playing the final Steffi benefited from a crime: that's accessory after the fact.It was right to play the last match,but it should have been an exhibition. Everyone would have understood & respected the decision.

[Meade3763]

@assindiastignani

LOL, you have a weird notion of "accessory after the fact"!!!

BTW, why did Steffi benefit? She lost the 1993 final while she had beaten Seles in the 1991 Hamburg final!

[fong03]

@kljMN2 You're right. She should have just given Shriver the match and said, "Yea I've won enough this year. No point trying to fight for another one." Give me a break. Steffi was cold during the handshake but it wasn't rude. And Pam was out there hugging ball kids. You can't expect Steffi to stay on court for that. And as for "typical Steffi," she was young. They can all be a bit bratty at that age. Take a look at her losses later in her career. She was a true sport.

[yescanto]

Seems pretty sour of Graf to walk off the court without her opponent, especially back in those days ! When that was the protical, the women's game was so much classier back then. Now they all act like spoiled bitches, whether they are or not. Great win for Pam, must of been a blast for the crowd !

[doetim]

@yescanto As great as Graf was she was often a very sore loser for sure! She didn't take losing very well and not known for friendly handshakes when she lost. She did get better later in her career though but that's one reason why I never bonded with Graf as a personality. As a player she was extraordinary to watch though!

[Hoffenheim08]

@doetim

Steffi was a great player BECAUSE she didn't take losing very well.

She was friendly, though, towards players she like, win or lose.

BTW, it is well documented that Steffi was ill in that Shriver match. She played with a cold and had fever. Maybe thought that would not matter much as Pam was a far inferior player who usually was thrashed by her.

[twilliger123]

@Hoffenheim08 Love how the uber Graf fans always make excuses for her, no different than other out of control fans (Michelle Kwan, Britney Spears, Clay Aiken, etc)...LMAO

[Hoffenheim08]

@twilliger123

Facts are facts.

There was even talk before the match that Steffi might not play.

Well, she played and lost. And so Shriver still has something to be proud of.

[Nicklas4500]

@Hoffenheim08 I agree. All the great players hate to lose. I think Graf was usually gracious on court, if a little brusque at the end here. She's certainly not playing her best in this match, though I don't think Shriver is quite the pushover you like to make out :)

[yescanto]

@Nicklas4500 Yes I agree Pam was a better quality player than people seem to give her credit for.

[Ariamaluum]

@Nicklas4500. The funny thing about Pam and I saw this when she Martina in 1982 U.S. Open. They have to play their best in order for Pam to win. When they play bad, Pam gets nervous and blows it.

[clarriona]

@yescanto

Graf had always been a sour loser and therefor no champ imho. let alone the fact that she profited from the stabbing.

[yescanto]

@clarriona Yes, it was tennis's lowest point,imo... who knows what would have happened, but I guess we only speculate at this point. It is a bad piece of tennis history, that is for sure !

[Hoffenheim08]

@clarriona

Who is more champ than Steffi?

[Marchjoy1963]

@Hoffenheim08 Margaret Court, Chris Evert .....Martina Navratilova... they have all won more titles than her !

[Hoffenheim08]

@Marchjoy1963

And how many titles has Court won when she beat only Aussie girls in Australia?

And how many titles did Navratilova win in some backwater US cities against US amateurs?

Do you REALLY think those "titles" can be compared to Steffi's tier 1 titles of the 90s?

Don't be ridiculous, please.

[yescanto]

@Hoffenheim08 Yes they most certainly can, whatever era you played in ... you played in.

[Ariamaluum]

@clarriona. Both she and Pam got into a bit of woofing stemming from that hot tub or hotel rumor incident.

[fantome19]

@clarriona so what you're saying then is that someone who is a good loser is a champ? stupid statement & why pick on just Graf for profiting from the stabbing? everyone in the women's game profited from the stabbing, don't blame Graf just because she happened to be better than the rest of the remaining players & won most of the biggest titles!!