The Magi and Star in the East: Pre-Christian and Astrotheological?

[TheEvolver311]

this video was ok, it makes the same mistake that most every other utube vid makes with regards to the orgins of judeo-christian theology, a over emphasis on the astrology. was astrotheology important to ancient people? yes, but by the end of the axial age it was vastly less central in all of religious thought in the majority of the ancient world.

[beatlesnumber9]

Good job, very brave to spread the truth in an era when lies rule. Thanks!

[aaugoaa]

the brightest of all fixed stars the summer solstice when the Nile rises...i love Egyptian mythology, i was born on that day, and i never new it was the star of Isis.

[aaugoaa]

hmm i was born on the day of the summer solictice. lol cool

[DrakeDorosh]

I thought Venus was the Morning Star and the Evening Star. I thought this was because as the Sun rises or sets Venus gets brighter as the other stars fade. The first to be seen in evening and the last in the morning. It is impressive to see because you can clearly see another world.

All these quotes placing Sirius as the Morning Star are very interesting to me. I guess Sirius is more useful object. I guess modern Christians might be confused by the fact that Xmas is Easter.

Thanks for posting.

[DrakeDorosh]

I thought Venus was the Morning Star and the Evening Star. I thought this was because as the Sun rises or sets Venus gets brighter as the other stars fade. The first to be seen in evening and the last in the morning. It is impressive to see because you can clearly see another world.

All these quotes placing Sirius as the Morning Star are very interesting to me. I guess Sirius is more useful object.

Thanks for posting.

[asorlonnn]

This is a good Instrumental

[MACNRG1]

loco video

[maximusTLP]

If i remember correctly august and september are the months of hurricanes in the united states, i wonder if this is a world wide phenomenon, if so then as hermetics states, as above so below is taking place.

[jagball22]

learn what the tree of life and kundalini fire is - watch video at jagball22

[bryngOneOn]

yes im taking the mick, but ur doing a better job than i would in same situ, must be so self concious and there seems to be some good starting points for further study ,here within

[bryngOneOn]

narrator suffering from-- -how many cream crackers can i eat quickly in a minute, but i've stuffed 3 crackers in my mouth and my mouth is now to dry to swallow syndrome.--- oh come on trust me ,there is such a scientific medical syndrome condition. Even if there aint and i'm telling u there is, go off, have a glass of water , a deep lung filling breath, start again from the top and this time lose da lisp

[lobitopp]

The bible does not said about 3 kings, those men were wise men but we don’t know how many, They were astrologers following a star who guide them first to Herod then to Jesus, Herod told them to come back to tell him where Jesus had born, he was planning to kill Jesus, Then the star guide them to Jesus but an angel told them not to go back to Herod, Who was the star who guide them to Herod? Was Satan himself trying to kill Jesus, God always has prohibited Astrology now you know why.

[SirianKings]

@lobitopp

You believe stars move in the sky to guide people?

How old are you?

[asorlonnn]

@SirianKings

I Suggest You should Have Beliefs that are True To Reality,

What are the Portuguese known for?

How did Hawaiians get to hawaii?

Exactly!

The stars are the maps of the sky!

[benyagmac]

booo! grasping at straws.

[YnoT0207]

Keep up the great work!

[Jhaub420]

the magi were zoroastrian

[VoxJoxx]

What is the astrology programme used in the movie?

[YnoT0207]

A free software download called Stellarium.

[ybcool]

*Judeo-Christian

[ybcool]

Whether the Bible says Three WISE MEN or Three GIFTS matters NOT. Your (Judeo-Cristian) Religion is merely a Plagiarized RIP-OFF of the Egyptian Religion! Deal with it! :-o

[braducalin]

again wow you are so smart

[braducalin]

waw you are very smart

[teksox45]

The Bible never says there were three wise men, just three gifts.

[dudekin]

I know.

I never said that it did.

[GODlovesSLAVERY]

"Noah, the great prophet, taught his children the gospel of Christ"

what is your evidence for this claim?

"but many plain and precious truths were lost over centuries."

why do you think that the myths of other cultures are corruptions of your cultures myths and not the other way around?

[KenDyerJr]

@teksox45 hey dipshit, the bible NUMBERS the gifts, at THREE. And there is a traditional Christian song entitled "WE THREE KINGS." SO shut up.

[ProcessedArt]

@teksox45 Correction, Matthew 2:

"1 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him... 11 And when they were come into the house...and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh.

[teksox45]

The fact that Matthew mentions the wise men from the east and luke mentions the shepherds is no discrepency. The Gospel of Luke was written to a different audience than that of Matthew. Matthew addressed his gospel or "testimony" to the Jews while Luke addressed his to the Gentiles. Luke must have had possession of the gospel of Matthew when writing his gospel as they both had possession of the gospel of Mark, the first gospel written.

[teksox45]

It is likely that Luke wanted to avoid repetition as Matthew had already mentioned the wise men in his gospel, therefore choosing to write about the separate shepherds instead.

[dudekin]

That's certainly a possibility.

I'd need to investigate your claims further before commentating upon it.

Interesting, though.

[teksox45]

This point is further illustrated in the gospel of John. The "synoptic gospels" (Matthew, Mark, and Luke) were written years before the final gospel written by John. John's gospel was addressed to the members of the Church in that time and contains only 7% of the same content as found in the synoptic gospels. This shows how he also avoided repeating what was previously mentioned in the prior testimonies.

[GODlovesSLAVERY]

"And with that I'll just let the casual observer decide which of us is right."

You are not an authority in comparative mythology, therefore your opinion doesnt matter. The fact that you actually think it does exposes your extreme arrogance and egotism. If your going to make a claim and you want people to believe you, you have to support it with evidence, no one here cares about your ignorant opinions.

"most reasonable people will see things my way."

go look up the word "reason".

[teksox45]

This was a very detailed and interesting video. It is interesting to see the similarities to Christianity of ancient civilizations and how they testify of Christ. Noah, the great prophet, taught his children the gospel of Christ but many plain and precious truths were lost over centuries. Egyptians clearly had parts of the true Gospel as demonstrated in this video.

Thanks for Posting!

[dudekin]

Even though I disagree with you, I appreciate the sentiment.

Take care.

[WORLDARYANREVIVAL]

@teksox45 youre an idiot!

[GODlovesSLAVERY]

"I'm not a bible literalist so I'm allowed to read into the story...I feel the magi...I feel otherwise."

So first you admit that you pick and choose what you believe to be true in the bible based on what you personally "feel" is right, then you try to actually build an argument off your own beliefs. Go look up logical fallacy. The info in this video is not based off of what Synth3t1cs says, it is based off of what the bible says.

does it say "star in the east"? yes or no? YES. you lose.

[GODlovesSLAVERY]

"I know what the book says. However, common sense and a knowledge of tratiton make me feel otherwise."

Lol. yeah, Commonsense/knowledge and the bible are like oil and water.

[Synth3t1cs]

The Magi from the Christ story were in the East looking WEST. So it's not an eastern star.

Its simple logic that even a fool like this video's author can understand. Or not...

[dudekin]

'When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.'

- Matthew 2:9

Please stop spamming my videos, also. I shall be deleting all but one of those comments, as they all say the same thing.

If you feel so strongly about the subject matter, please attempt to disprove my assertions, from then we can amend that which is erroneous - I'm all for correction.

[dudekin]

Furthermore, just because someone is 'coming from the east', doesn't mean they're looking 'west', as you put it. Why not north, or south?

The Bible is ambiguous, indeed. However, the star is frequently portrayed as 'star in the east', and thus it would seem most likely to be as such.

[Synth3t1cs]

I know what the book says. However, common sense and a knowledge of tratiton make me feel otherwise.

And I'm not a bible literalist so I'm allowed to read into the story. Just like you do in your own arguments. (Or anyone who interprets the bible for that matter)

I feel the magi were following a well established tradtion first set forth by the Buddhist religion. Following stars to find the buddha. You can say the idea is borrowed, I feel otherwise.

[dudekin]

I would have to disagree.

Common sense would concede that the event wasn't historical (I'm not saying that you believe it is - I don't know), thus we can take what it asserts as allegorical.

The book of Matthew clearly opines it to be a 'star in the east'. You can't assert a myth to be wrong; as its not based upon history.

[dudekin]

'I feel the magi were following a well established tradtion first set forth by the Buddhist religion. Following stars to find the buddha. You can say the idea is borrowed, I feel otherwise.'

You've contradicted yourself. If the tradition was set forth by Buddhism, Christianity *MUST* have borrowed such a concept.

If you can provide meaningful argumentation for how the Bible got its own myths wrong, I'd be willing to amend my stance.

[Synth3t1cs]

"I would have to disagree"

Of course you would. And no matter what argument I provide to the contrary you will always believe as you do. Partially because that's what you want to believe, and not necessarily because its the truth.

And thus we reach a stalemate. And with that I'll just let the casual observer decide which of us is right. I'm confident most reasonable people will see things my way.

[dudekin]

I've made it abundantly clear that I'd amend my stance if the evidence is provided.

It's all to easy to brush away such remarks.

I disagree because you have provided no evidence for any of your assertions.

How can I take you seriously? This video cites numerous primary sources for each claim, and, if you check the transcript, I even cross reference translations.

You on the other hand have provided nothing.

[Synth3t1cs]

One other this I should say is that there are a lot of positive connections and parallels between Christ and the Buddha. Far too many to be a coincidence. Again, some people say this is borrowing but I strongly feel otherwise.

I believe all of the belief systems in the world can be boiled down to one basic set of ideas vs another. Jesus and Buddha fall on the same side of the fence.

Well that's enough out of me.

*Tips his hat the audience*

[dudekin]

I agree that the similarities between Buddhism and Christianity are extremely compelling.

I think we agree on more points than you know.

All parallels are based on solar mythology though, as is attested to by Sun-Gods possessing the same traits, with explanations for such.

[repeatedattempt]

Go eff all you pagans!

[chwdiv25]

Ooooh. I have never had a more brilliant rebuttal in my life.

[chwdiv25]

LMAO. Lukes account was the night of Christs birth. In Matthews account, the Magi found Christ in a house 2 years after his birth! This guy is stupid!

[chwdiv25]

A close reading of the bible star will reveal that the star in Matthew only led Herod to kill the children. The star was pagen, not christian. This relating the star in Matthew to Jesus being called the morning star is stupid! :P

[dudekin]

The star which they saw in the east went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was

It seems that you, are the one misinterpreting texts, here. Secondly, where did you get the idea that the Magi found Jesus' house two years after birth? The Bible proclaims nothing of such sorts - you're misinterpreting the text.

[dudekin]

'The star was pagen (sic), not christian.'

Again, that point is entirely moot, and irrelevant. It's part of the story, which is indeed, telling and pertinent, as it reveals the true solar motif of the narrative.

[chwdiv25]

The point is comparing Jesus being the morning star to the "star" in Matthew. It's not irrelevant at all. The fact being that it is a pagan star means the comparison is ludicrous.

[chwdiv25]

Read The story. Matt Chapter 2 v1. The star first led them to Herod. After Herod was told a King was born and set a murderous plot in motion, ONLY THEN did the star lead them to Jesus.

When they found the child, where was he? In a manger? No. In a house. Mathew Ch2 v 11. A distinctly different word used for house than for manger.

Matthew Chapter 2 Vs16. herod ascertained that Jesus was 2 years old by this time. Read Lukes account to get the events at the manger.

[dudekin]

'herod ascertained that Jesus was 2 years old by this time'

That is simply not true at all - please stop perverting scripture.

'he gave orders to kill all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity who were two years old and under' - Matthew 2:16.

The comparison isn't 'ludicrous' at all. As I have demonstrated, Sirius has been deemed the 'Morning Star' since antiquity. Furthermore, the star was deemed Jesus' star:

'We saw HIS star in the east' - Matthew 2:2 (emph added).

*NOT* a pagan effigy.

[chwdiv25]

Right. Matt 2:16 pt 2. "according to the time he had ascertained from the astrologers." TWO YEARS.

I never said comparing Sirius to Christ was Ludicrous. Scripture does that. How does that justify comparing him to the star in Matt ch2? Try to keep up Ok?

[dudekin]

'Two old years and under'

Period. Please stop moulding things to suite a presupposed agenda.

[chwdiv25]

We have ABSOLUTELY No reason to believe that this incident took place anytime in the first 18-20 months of his life. Anyway it is clear the star could not operate on the Hebrews. It had to draw in astrologers from Babylon.

And you still never said how you came to compare Matthews star to Christ being the morning star. Pretty big leap if you base it on NOTHING.

[dudekin]

Simply because Sirius throughout mythology has been deemed 'The Morning Star', comparatively, it is fitting.

It's not a big leap at all. Especially considering the whole 'star in the east guiding magi' concept is astronomical, as attested to by the Pyramid texts.

[chwdiv25]

The only thing you have shown is that the morning star is a common reference in ancient writings. Jesus being called the Morning Star had NOTHING to do with Matthews star, and you have NOT shown ANY different. There is no comparison between Sirius and Matthews star, so he has nothing to do with it either.

[dudekin]

Sirius does have a connection to the star in Matthew.

In numerous mythologies, Sirius was seen as a herald for the new-born saviour, an example would be the Egyptian mythos. The story of Krishna and Buddha are also of a similar thread.

[chwdiv25]

Excuse me. I meant Cyrus. Not Sirius.

The Morning star in other ancient writings are analogies to an ACTUAL star. Matthews star was an earthly agent that led people around the middle east and would even lead people to particular houses. What other star in ancient writings behaved in this way?

[dudekin]

The sole purpose of the star in Matthew was to incite awareness over the birth of Christ.

It serves the exact same purpose as it has done in numerous myths preceding it. Exact logistics are of little consequence, as it's the intent behind the writings. The star in Matthew was Jesus' star.

'the star they had seen in the east went ahead of them until it stopped over the place where the child was. '

[dudekin]

I've dug up some passages from Clement of Alexandria's 'Exhortation to the Heathen' (150-215CE?) which may be of interest to you.

'Christ, the Sun of the Resurrection, He who was born before the morning star,

- Roberts, ANF, II, p196

Again, we find an association of the 'Star in the East' with 'The Morning Star', or, 'Sirius'. Which would make sense, as the Sun is born before Sirius, whenever it is seen in the sky. Particularly noticeable at the Winter Solstice with Orion.

[chwdiv25]

Ill give you that later in an attempt to merge religions and build larger support base, the stories seem to merge. However, when we draw from the scripture, we see a clear cut case of "cheap imitation". Read Luke chapter 2 and you will see how Jehovah announced Jesus' birth. The star, on the other hand, had to travel 1000 miles, and set in motion a murderous plot. Nothing like the righteous announcement.

[chwdiv25]

Is that right? Did it not lead the babylonian astrologers to Herod FIRST, and then after the murderous plot was put in place, only THEN did it lead BABYLONIAN, not HEBREW, men to the child. The stars purpose was to bring the childs enemies in! NOT his admirers!

[1cattfish]

Good job! ***** As good as this is, and as well as you list your sources, I can hear Keith's arguements already.

[chwdiv25]

Lists his sources?!? This guy has nearly all his facts confused and compares irrelevant points. The star was pagan and led HEROD to the child to kill him! Yet he relates this star to Jesus being called the morning star is stupid.

[dudekin]

Facts confused? I think you'll find your asserting I'm wrong due to Biblical discrepancy? I think you'd be better off proclaiming the Gospel writers to have had their facts confused.

Furthermore, your points of contention are just plain incorrect, as I've outlined below.

[chwdiv25]

LMFAO. You haven't shown shit below. Do not be vague. Tell me what facts you are referring to and we will talk about them one at a time.

[Gungfuwarrior]

You've been hard at work, haven't you dudekin? This is great to see this material finally put to video form, you & JezusRa deserve the highest praise.

[dudekin]

I'll be doing numerous on that subject :-)

[nebulajr]

EXCELLENT!

[dudekin]

Oh, indeed I agree with you.

Diodorus discusses Osiris as the Sun and Isis as the Moon, also. So his writings are contradictory to say the least.

[JezusRa]

Speaking of stars, you get 5 of them.

[dudekin]

Haha, thank-you!

[dudekin]

It was believed that the Gods were in fact real people in Egypt, who walked the earth many, many years ago.

Diodorus Siculus in his 'Antiquities of Egypt' asserted Osiris to be a 'real person', who 'conquered' India and 'founded many cities'. Osiris, Diodorus stated 'left in that country many other indications of his presence, by which the latter-day Indians were persuaded to claim the God and assert he was born in India'.

Siculus, AE, p24-25

[utukkuxul]

The per-a'a(pharoah) was the high priest and only he could perform the rituals and rites to the Netjeru(gods). The other priests performed them in the king's name, acting as fill-ins for him because it was impossible for him to perform all the various rites and rituals all over Egypt.

The Netjeru of Egypt were principles of nature given names and images, and they were certainly worshiped.

[utukkuxul]

They were never worshiped? The Egyptian priests had to follow strict purity laws and service the god several times a day in its temple, but they never considered them gods or worshiped them?

[dudekin]

I don't, no. Although I would love to go into that field.

I've been studying religion for about 4 years now, and I've been fascinated by Egyptology for as long as I can remember. I dedicate at least 2-3 hours a day to studying such topics, however, such information is easily attained.

One merely has to read through the Pyramid and Coffin Texts to become accustomed to such blatant plagiarism on the Christian's part, although a basic understanding of symbolism etc is required beforehand :-).