We can't define what is a religion as per our constitution. Listen again to what the late Dr West of UCLA is saying--"This is not what our founding fathers had in mind,"etc. There's all kinds of groups that get away with all manner of abuses who define themselves as religions. I wish it were not so. Is this a defect in our Nation's constitution? GOLLY!
Why does this UCLA person keep INSISTING this reall a "church." JJ was very clear about that just being a tax evasion (why he was investigated). He was NOT any church, he preached directly that the people WERE the "church." (Man not God.) The preachings had nothing to do with christianity or any other religion, and many peoplewere not religious, but just leftists, (socialists, communists, progressives, etc.) Dishonest 2 pretend it was "religious" org and to obscure ties to socialism.
Sorry but they were foolish. If you watch the other video of this alot of the members who survived remember him joking around saying he would poison them to test their loyalty, he said he would be there GOD, he was hitting them in church. What kind of family is that?! No thank you, I'll think for myself. He was a pyscho using religion to cover it and he got a bunch of weak minds to follow him down to Jonestown. So sad for the children.
@GeorgiaPeach87 ,You are obviously ignorant about cults and mind control and therefore you feel better about yourself by making cruel judgements about these people.They were deceived and manipulated.It happens to the most intelligent, normal people.The survivors said they never really believed that he would poison them and any doubts they had about that were quashed cause he told them all doubts are from the devil.Even though they were hit,they believed it was impossible for them to leave.
@GeorgiaPeach87 .These people were under mind contol.In mind control the goal of the cult leader is to prevent members from leaving cause unknown to them he wants to retain power over them.He controlled these people by programming them with fear of horrific things that would happen to them if they left.,he sent people to shoot from outside the camp,when they were asleep,so they believed they would be killed if they left.He also use guilt and information control. Do research before you judge
It is understandable that politicians and average people could be deceived by Jones and the community he build around him. I personally co produced a documentary on the people and observed them for a large portion of time. I felt the phenom.was impressive and yet Jones was an enigma--spooky, strange, secret stuff, staged healings, etc.I don't think I was inclined to support Jones politically to the extent Harvey Milk did.
This is not well known but Harvey Milk in Jan 1978 wrote to Carter strongly supporting Jim Jones in the Stoen custudy dispute. Jones was essential in getting Milk elected; he failed three times. Knowing full well of the crimes and general weirdness of the temple, Milk was a steadfast supporter. He was supposed to attend with Dick Gregory a benefit dinner scheduled Dec. 2, 1978. Needless to say it was cancelled.
thanks captain obvious. i dont think anyone would say it was not tragic, obviously. i was reacting to her emotionless response years after the fact at losing her son. i think that stands for something. any parent would rather die than lose their child. she didnt seem that valiant to me, quite frankly.
@MrRedFredSaid you're judging me, genius. how easy was that. i am sure i know more about people's temple than you do. but who cares, i am just a moron.
grace stoen got out before jonestown. note how she talks emotionlessly about leaving her son to die there, and feeling guilty. i dunno she is just a strange chick but go figure.
Grace Stoen was forced to abandon her little boy to Jonestown. Jim Jones was saying the child was his. But Grace Stoen mounted a valiant effort to regain the boy,
Who is the cute young fellow who talks about how wonderful Jonestown is? He looks as if he could be six years old or so. Does anyone know his name, and his fate? Did he die in Jonestown?
The young fellow at 0:45 brings back a flood of uncomfortable memories for me. In my theological and spiritual studies I ran into situations, in every faith and relgious practice, of children who could "testify" with great articulation and convincing affect yet couldn't carry on a simple one on one conversation with you outside of the performance. I imagine this yound man being very much the same.
Hey Dave, you might want to expand the tags on these so that more people can see your excellent work. I would think that people would be likely to do a search for Jim Jones, himself, or Jonestown before they would think to search out the name of the organization.
The point of view in these "of the moment" documetaries are invaluable to understanding the tragedy, I hope that you've preserved these great films with the proper instituations.
Once again, thanks for posting. This is what a documentary should do; document history and having people tell their personal stories. Your stuff on People Temple should be entered into the Library of Congress.
Thank you for the comment.
davgot47 6 months ago
good job man, nice work
RatchetSouth 6 months ago
We can't define what is a religion as per our constitution. Listen again to what the late Dr West of UCLA is saying--"This is not what our founding fathers had in mind,"etc. There's all kinds of groups that get away with all manner of abuses who define themselves as religions. I wish it were not so. Is this a defect in our Nation's constitution? GOLLY!
davgot47 7 months ago
Why does this UCLA person keep INSISTING this reall a "church." JJ was very clear about that just being a tax evasion (why he was investigated). He was NOT any church, he preached directly that the people WERE the "church." (Man not God.) The preachings had nothing to do with christianity or any other religion, and many peoplewere not religious, but just leftists, (socialists, communists, progressives, etc.) Dishonest 2 pretend it was "religious" org and to obscure ties to socialism.
westchesterny 7 months ago
i know how to prevent it. stop comercials brainwashing mind control.
archie977 10 months ago
Mind controlled cults! OH BOY! Nothing new.
GrizzlyFist 1 year ago
this was a cia experiment, jones was cia, mk ultra
badsign1980 1 year ago
@badsign1980 Races living together, building socialism? The CIA would never come up with that. They'd do the opposite of that.
jxhensley 1 year ago
he knew what? what is guy at beginning talkin about?
arlichar11 1 year ago
Sorry but they were foolish. If you watch the other video of this alot of the members who survived remember him joking around saying he would poison them to test their loyalty, he said he would be there GOD, he was hitting them in church. What kind of family is that?! No thank you, I'll think for myself. He was a pyscho using religion to cover it and he got a bunch of weak minds to follow him down to Jonestown. So sad for the children.
GeorgiaPeach87 1 year ago
@GeorgiaPeach87 ,You are obviously ignorant about cults and mind control and therefore you feel better about yourself by making cruel judgements about these people.They were deceived and manipulated.It happens to the most intelligent, normal people.The survivors said they never really believed that he would poison them and any doubts they had about that were quashed cause he told them all doubts are from the devil.Even though they were hit,they believed it was impossible for them to leave.
marmackk 1 year ago
@GeorgiaPeach87 .These people were under mind contol.In mind control the goal of the cult leader is to prevent members from leaving cause unknown to them he wants to retain power over them.He controlled these people by programming them with fear of horrific things that would happen to them if they left.,he sent people to shoot from outside the camp,when they were asleep,so they believed they would be killed if they left.He also use guilt and information control. Do research before you judge
marmackk 1 year ago
It is understandable that politicians and average people could be deceived by Jones and the community he build around him. I personally co produced a documentary on the people and observed them for a large portion of time. I felt the phenom.was impressive and yet Jones was an enigma--spooky, strange, secret stuff, staged healings, etc.I don't think I was inclined to support Jones politically to the extent Harvey Milk did.
davgot47 1 year ago
This is not well known but Harvey Milk in Jan 1978 wrote to Carter strongly supporting Jim Jones in the Stoen custudy dispute. Jones was essential in getting Milk elected; he failed three times. Knowing full well of the crimes and general weirdness of the temple, Milk was a steadfast supporter. He was supposed to attend with Dick Gregory a benefit dinner scheduled Dec. 2, 1978. Needless to say it was cancelled.
RobGoth100 1 year ago
Grace Stoen was forced to abandon he little boy in Jonestown. Jones claimed the kid was his. Hey man,
this is tragic stuff...
davgot47 2 years ago
thanks captain obvious. i dont think anyone would say it was not tragic, obviously. i was reacting to her emotionless response years after the fact at losing her son. i think that stands for something. any parent would rather die than lose their child. she didnt seem that valiant to me, quite frankly.
putdownan8dude 2 years ago
Comment removed
MrRedFredSaid 1 year ago
@MrRedFredSaid you're judging me, genius. how easy was that. i am sure i know more about people's temple than you do. but who cares, i am just a moron.
putdownan8dude 1 year ago
Comment removed
putdownan8dude 1 year ago
@putdownan8dude oh, and fuckin fuck you, dude.
putdownan8dude 1 year ago
@MrRedFredSaid btw.. that doesn't even make sense. who are YOU calling a moron, fucktard??? fuck you.
putdownan8dude 1 year ago
@putdownan8dude - are you mad? lolz You typed three comments to over a course of 18 minutes. Idiotic, crazed comments. But I digress.
MrRedFredSaid 1 year ago
grace stoen got out before jonestown. note how she talks emotionlessly about leaving her son to die there, and feeling guilty. i dunno she is just a strange chick but go figure.
putdownan8dude 2 years ago
Grace Stoen was forced to abandon her little boy to Jonestown. Jim Jones was saying the child was his. But Grace Stoen mounted a valiant effort to regain the boy,
This is deeply tragic stuff.
davgot47 2 years ago
Comment removed
putdownan8dude 2 years ago
@:40 ---
Who is the cute young fellow who talks about how wonderful Jonestown is? He looks as if he could be six years old or so. Does anyone know his name, and his fate? Did he die in Jonestown?
TreblePop 2 years ago
Hyacinth Thrash is a Jonestown Survivor. I believe she slept through the suicides.
Grungeanddeath 2 years ago 2
She actually did. But it wasn't really suicide, it was mass murder.
madlabsstudios 2 years ago 8
It was both.
Grungeanddeath 2 years ago
The young fellow at 0:45 brings back a flood of uncomfortable memories for me. In my theological and spiritual studies I ran into situations, in every faith and relgious practice, of children who could "testify" with great articulation and convincing affect yet couldn't carry on a simple one on one conversation with you outside of the performance. I imagine this yound man being very much the same.
thegirl44 2 years ago
Very good documentary!
swdanielson 2 years ago 3
Thank you very much!
David G
davgot47 2 years ago
Hey Dave, you might want to expand the tags on these so that more people can see your excellent work. I would think that people would be likely to do a search for Jim Jones, himself, or Jonestown before they would think to search out the name of the organization.
The point of view in these "of the moment" documetaries are invaluable to understanding the tragedy, I hope that you've preserved these great films with the proper instituations.
thegirl44 2 years ago
Once again, thanks for posting. This is what a documentary should do; document history and having people tell their personal stories. Your stuff on People Temple should be entered into the Library of Congress.
RobGoth100 3 years ago 5