@LyricWriter321 Witches, kill them. Homosexuals, kill them.fortunetellers, kill them. those who don`t listen to priests, kill them. those hitting their dad, kill them. those who curse their parents, kill them, adulterers, kill them. fornicators, kill them. people who believe in other religions, kill them. non-believers,kill them. fals prohets ,kill them. blasphemers, kill them. those who work on the Sabbath, kill them. This is the word of Jesus( god) !!
Why wouldn't every day be a HAPPY DAY?! He is ALIVE! He washed our sins AWAY! ...and I know, I will never be the same. Thanks to Jesus and His never ending LOVE♥
Hey fellow christians!! Please read this!!! My friend named Tim is an amazing man of God and he is starting a youtube pastoring channel because he was called by Jesus to do so at summercamp! His heart is in the right place and he uploads videos every week. God's dream for him is for that channel to get going and spread the gospel through youtube! So please check out his channel "FightersOnFire" that would be so amazing! Thank you all so much and may the Mighty Lord Jesus bless all of you! :)
"God gave me His eyes and opened my blind ones. He opened them to the lonely people around me. When I started seeing all of these people I had never noticed before, I started to sit with them during lunch. So now when I walk into the cafeteria at my school, instead of looking for my friends, my eyes wander to the people who are sitting all alone. It is the beginning of a chain reaction and I am praying that God uses me to open others eyes and help them see the lonely hearts around them. :)
Moses wrote the first four books of the Torah, the OT is the Torah, or at least that is the best that historians currently deduce. But even if you say it wasn't Moses who scribed Genesis, any person in that historical time frame has the same lack of scientific knowledge so it's a fairly moot point. So let's progressively go through the initial hurdles of genesis - I'm not sure I'll do this as much justice as my friend because I'm not a physicist and he can explain this better but I'll try (cont)
@atheistdawn Take also commentary's which align to and confirm biblical events such as Macrobius writing about Augustus' reaction to Herod having all the boys under the age of 2 slaughtered in Syria.
Then consider bibliographic testing as well.
Now I shall pause here to take a break given that I've posted a lot. I will also say much of this evidence made little difference to me until after I had had my initial subjective experience. (see past 12 comments)
@SDWLLB ........You mention eye witnesses and testamony........who were these eyewitnesses and who testamony are you talking of?
Jesus may have existed, but it is his divintiy we are talking of here.............
As for the rest of your statements, its just a shrug of the shoulders dressed up as faith. but even if it was evidence for a god, you have not given me one argument that shows this god to be your god, and for a theist such as your self that is very telling indeed.............
@SDWLLB ........and moses wrote genesis, never heard that one before. what matches have you found between genesis and the big bang theory? watch out for the werewolves by the way.............
@atheistdawn And yes I am certain God exists, just because you lack faith does not mean I do. I shall repeat for the sake of clarity, I am certain God exists! Anyway, Genesis starts with a quick summary 1:1-3
Then it really kicks in.
Genesis 1:3, we have light first. This aligns with the big bang, the vast explosive bang that kicks off the universe, scientists being sure that vast amounts of light and heat would've been emitted from such an explosion.
@atheistdawn Genesis 1:4 we then gain the distinction between light and darkness. This is again consistent, the hot burning gases formed out of the initial explosion such as hydrogen and possibly helium would burn brightly whilst we also have the dark parts of space at this point. This matter of course spirals denser and denser forming other various elements.
Genesis 1:6 we gain the elements mixing to continue forming and water is formed and compound made of hydrogen and oxygen. (cont 3)
@atheistdawn Gen 1:9 the water on earth collects into oceans and proper land masses appear.
Gen 1:11-13 the land is then colonised with plant life.
Now Gen 1:20 onwards we see life (as in animals) taking place and as you may know Genesis progresses from there.
Now my explanation doesn't include all the various astronomy and astro-physics points my friend managed to make, it is, bluntly put, a crude attempt at repeating his points. But hey, I'm in the game of law not physics (cont 4)
@atheistdawn But suffice it to say that the broad overview is certainly there. It is also worth pointing out that the translation into English misses something of the delicacy of the older Hebrew texts too. Many scholars have pointed out that in translation terms the 7 days can be translated as 7 periods of time and that there is nothing to indicate each period of time has to be the same length as the next. This is also worth bearing in mind when reading through Genesis.
@atheistdawn And my mention of eyewitness testimony, well we can consider for a start the 4 gospels which document quite a lot. And on a larger scale for the existence of God, you need only ask the plentiful millions of Christians around the world, there is plenty of testimony to be found out there.
If you would like evidence that shows 'this God to be my God' as you've phrased it then I can happily provide you with my testimony. Would you like this? (cont 6)
@atheistdawn The reason I have by and large left this out to date is because normally when talking to atheists they don't like me to talk about why I became Christian, they don't want to know the subjective side of it all. They want things that can be perceived as more objective, now I won't lie faith's always going to play a part, but I have endeavoured to give you plenty of sources to look into in an attempt to be as objective as possible, one will never truly be objective here mind.(cont 7)
@atheistdawn some of the older sources I've provided you with are from people around literally just after Jesus' lifetime, one or two could well have been around during his lifetime. Certainly several of the ancient secular historians make detailed referencing to records held at the time which were written during the course of Jesus' lifetime unfortunately these records no longer exist. (cont 8)
@atheistdawn The sacking of Rome and Jerusalem had a heavy toll and for original documents of which there were probably only one at most a few sets of copies to survive 2000 years always had the odds stacked against it.
Anyway I'm happy to share my testimony if you'd like. It goes back about 5 years and there are some very personal parts to it. I would ask only that you show some respect if I share it. It has been an interesting and eventful journey so far (cont 9)
@atheistdawn Certainly it may take a lot of posts, I am therefore happy to send it you via a message if you'd prefer. Do you want me to share my testimony and personal reasons for my belief in God and Jesus and do you agree to be respectful of it?
@SDWLLB ok, first you tell me moses wrote genesis, then suddenly he didnt. 7 days, 7 ages? what are the seven ages of the last 13.5 billion years? i know of only three so far, the primordeal gases that formed into mainly hydrogen which led through gravity to the stelliferous peroid. the period we are in now, after this period when all the stars are dead...............
@SDWLLB over trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions of years they will slowly melt away to nothing, the last black holes will die, then nothing forever and ever......entropic heat death of the universe. None of the people you mentioned lived during the time of jesus............
@SDWLLB.......and as for the gospels, they are not testamony, they were written by who? and written long after jesus died. and im not being offensive but your personel testamony means nothing, i want hard evidence. something so far you are lacking it has to be said.
@atheistdawn 'ok, first you tell me moses wrote genesis, then suddenly he didnt.' - I've merely told you that the perspective of scholars and historians is Moses wrote them. I've not suddenly changed my mind but merely been open with you and clarified that even if he didn't it doesn't change anything, that is called a hypothetical thought process. And actually your theory that there will be nothing is just that, theory.
@atheistdawn There is also another scientific theory that whilst we know the universe is expanding, one day it will begin contracting and eventually end up crushing in on itself. A further theory to add in is that said crushing could cause a cyclical effect and produce a second big bang type event. But again, theory, you don't know what will happen just as I don't. (cont)
@atheistdawn And your dismissal that none of the people were alive when Jesus was isn't 100% true either, many of the dates of birth are unknown. His birth date is unknown but his works are from around 55-57AD. This means he could well have realistically been alive when Jesus was. This is but one example. Given Jesus is thought to have lived from 0AD to between 30-37AD (give or take several years leeway on either side) it is probable Thallus was at least around by Jesus' death (cont 2)
@atheistdawn And the gospels can be counted as testimony. There is debate over whether or not the actual Matthew, Mark, Luke and John scribed them - this means they could well have been written by them. And since it is widely held that Luke compiled his account from eyewitnesses it can be classed as testimony.
Even if the oral version was passed on and then finally compiled in writing it would count as testimonial accounts of Jesus such as the Hadith do in the Islamic tradition. (cont 3)
@atheistdawn And if you want hard evidence then you're going to have to define what you mean. I've given you the actual definitions of evidence, you have a wealth of historical evidence to look at, there is a wealth of testimony out there, just ask Christians about their journey. But so far you've not given any indication of what you count as evidence - you've not said what you class as evidence, proof or any such thing. Define hard evidence. (cont 4)
@atheistdawn If you're after 100% proof you'll never get it, even science does not offer you that. Science, especially physics, works off an accepted definition for a "discovery": a five-sigma level of certainty. It is based purely on observation and if the same result appears in a way that is the equivalent of flipping a coin and tossing 20 heads in a row it is given a five sigma level. It's hardly outright proof but strong observational coherence. So what's your definition of 'hard evidence'?
@SDWLLB My definition of evidence is something that is something you can test, and repeat again and again and the conclusuion is always the same. Because the evidence for a god, and your god is non existant, rather than conclude a god or your god doesnt exist, you look at the definition of evidence as having some sort of flaw. for example im 100% sure humans exist.................
@atheistdawn Ok, again you're using a massive straw man argument, can't seem to stop yourself from doing that. I have at no point shown or indicated anything other than my absolute certainty God exists. And judging by what you count as 'evidence' many theories that you no doubt take as fact can't be deemed to have evidence. The reasons I have for believing God exists actually align with some of the points you make, you look at/ can see humans - they exist (cont)
@atheistdawn I have repeatedly felt and experienced God so he exists. For me that has been tested, it might not have been for you but it has been for me. This is also the case for countless millions of people all over the world, some sources even suggest there being around 2 billion Christians in the world. So if I use your own test it works for me. That one can never be 100% sure is actually both a scientific and philosophical principle, something worth noting at this juncture (cont 2)
@atheistdawn And as for the 7 periods of time mentioned in the creation story in genesis, I think you'll find that nobody knows the exact time frames of when/ how long these were, however loosely speaking, since Genesis provides for the occurrences it would be indicative that each time frame has already been loosely outlined for you. E.g. the big bang could well count as on period of time. Although I'm not sure why you're getting caught up on this, it was a point to show that (cont 3)
@atheistdawn translation does mean semantics can be lost in translation along with certain levels of context. Another example is that there are several different words in greek for love, each with it's own connotations and semantic value but again these can often be missed in the English translations.
I also notice you've used several Terry Pratchett Characters from the Hogfather as if to try and make a point. However since you've used a straw man to not only massively oversimplify my (cont 4)
@atheistdawn views but also rather misstated my views as well your point is rather moot. We've not even really begun to delve deep enough into my beliefs for you to attempt to make such an assumption and it is as always a very typical argument that atheists like to adopt. The problem being that here you are assuming atheist generalisations on my beliefs without checking to see my beliefs first. (cont 5)
@atheistdawn It's funny, there's been some very good articles about this sort of thing recently. The guardian has recently had several articles in a series looking at this area in general. Look up "Julian Baggini: Heathen's progress" I don't agree with everything he says but he raises some very good points on the typical failures of discussions between atheists and those of a faith. Now I've been atheist so I remember much of the viewpoints and stances (cont 6)
@atheistdawn But I am aware some of your views will inherently differ from what mine were as an atheist. By the same token my beliefs are not going to fit into the massive stereotype that you think they do. There is a wealth of material on such points and a complex undertone of theology, philosophy, personal experience etc to it. Now I have offered to share my experience with you so that we might get somewhere but on the proviso you're respectful of it. That's not to say you can't (cont 7)
@atheistdawn disagree with it but if you do so, please do so in a more respectful manner than you've done to date. I too am willing to hear of why you believe what you do, how you got there etc. But suffice it to say you've made some very brash assumptions throughout the discussion to date and often write in a disrespectful manner such as 'your head disappearing up your own ass', this neither makes a point nor moves the discussion forward. Do you really think such statements will endear (cont 8)
@atheistdawn me to your views in any way? That is just being derogatory and insulting for no good reason. I could be equally as repugnant and write back something similar in an equally insulting vein but do not wish to because I'd actually like this discussion to move forwards. So on this note I am going to say please, go and read the articles I've mentioned, consider the manner in which you converse with me and then once you've done that maybe we can get somewhere. (cont 9)
@atheistdawn So I say farewell to you, have a great day and why not send me a message or inbox me when you're a bit more ready to talk with a level of composure and dignity. All the best, peace be with you.
@SDWLLB OMG i love you man you ROCK. that's how a christian is supposed to be :) though peace be with you is a witch thing isn't it? doesnt matter its nice. :) God bless!
@SeaLakes Thanks - peace be with you is something known as 'the peace' it's often used in the C of E, Anglican churches and sometimes more widely. Often it is said whilst shaking a hands or even giving a hug (such as in the free church). It conveys a sense of God's love and the peace his spirit can bring - different churches and cultures take different stances on it - just felt it may brighten people's day :) God bless and also peace be with you! Also, love this song!
@SDWLLB.......you can look at the evidence and the conclusion and testing always come up the same...humans exist. but by your reckoning humans may not exist, because you can never be 100% sure anything exists, i should also add yesterday you said you were certain god exists, now it seems you are not........................
@SDWLLB.........but dont you see how far your head is dissapearing up your own ass to prove your god is there. and if we take your veiw on things then once again, everything exists.krishna, vampires, werewolves ( remember them!) zeus, amon ra, sock thief, pimple gnome, god of hangovers
@atheist dawn Take also commentary's which align to and confirm biblical events such as Macrobius writing about Augustus' reaction to Herod having all the boys under the age of 2 slaughtered in Syria.
Then consider bibliographic testing as well.
Now I shall pause here to take a break given that I've posted a lot. I will also say much of this evidence made little difference to me until after I had had my initial subjective experience.
@atheist dawn (cont 12) Nothing I ever do will be good enough, it has nothing to do with me or my actions, it is down to God's goodness, Jesus' sacrifice. Such a stark contrast, made me both critical of Christianity but also made it's doctrine coherent.
I also began to pray and my prayers were answered.
There is also a vast array of other historical evidence. including:
@atheist dawn I used to be atheist and spent 2 years as an agnostic before becoming Christian. I researched into many other world wide religions as well, I did look into as many as I could and did in-depth research on them. I found them to be lacking for one reason or another. Christianity certainly stood out, it was the only one that did not follow a typical consensus, good deeds get you into heaven. It was almost scandalous to see that it was grace.
@atheistdawn (cont 11) btw you may be trying to convince me but it won't work, I know who God is, he's living, grace filled, forgiving, just, holy - he actually has a good sense of humour, is giving, kind and loving. I've got a personal relationship with him and your attempts to create doubt don't really work so unless you're serious about trying to understand something more of Christianity then it's pointless because you're just looking to defame God in the comments on a video made for worship
@SDWLLB yes we know god has no problem with murder, after all he kills children, and ask his followers to commit murder, so we know your god has no problem with murder. Jurisprudence sets out that the law is not always moral. killing another human being is wrong from a moral point of view, and shows god there fore has no morals, and its unlawful from a human point of view too. all you have demonstrated is that humans have moved on from this morality free zone called god............
@SDWLLB..........and its two thousand year old rules. for instance rape, not one word from your god or the bible on rape being a crime, therefore in your world of objective law, rape is a good thing. however in the world of the normal person, rape is a heinous crime. oh and dont forget, there is not one scrap of evidence for your objective law, or your god. the more i read your messages the more my flesh starts to creep........
@SDWLLB...........its sounds horribly like you think you rules of your unproven choice of god amoungst thousands of unproven gods, and evil old book are more important than human lives today....i hope that is not so.
@atheistdawn And again proving you know little of scripture, it's obvious you've not looked at Matthew and Jesus laying out the two most important commandments from your reply. And the point is this, I actually care about human life a heck of a lot - I care so much I'd like people to also have a wonderful afterlife in heaven too. I am a massive advocate of Human Rights esp. UDHR and ECHR but because of your complete misunderstanding of the bible etc you miss this - which is a shame :( (cont)
@atheistdawn Yes. Rape is a crime. It's not only illegal, but God tells us in the Bible it's wrong. He says to not have sex before marriage, and to treat people as you would want to be treated. Where are you getting these false accusations? You must know nothing about God.
@atheistdawn With reference to your question to @MissHannie23 - I've given you one instance already from 2 Samuel, let alone the repeated commentary throughout the OT and NT against pre-marital sex, sexual immorality (obvious that rape comes under this category so it's wrong), the treat others as you wish to be treated passage, this is both in Leviticus and Jesus makes a very clear point on this being the second greatest commandment (see Matthew), are you just not listening/ reading?
@atheistdawn Objective theory is as proveable as subjective theory, which you appear to advocate, I am sorry if you don't understand the neighbour principle or jurisprudence surrounding issues of justice, I'm sorry you don't understand that I'm not layering rules but trying to get across the point that God is just, loving and as a result gave his Son for you so that you may know grace. (cont 2)
@atheistdawn It sounds horribly like you purposely don't want to understand any of my beliefs and rather like defaming things people hold dear. To call the bible evil, the very book that all western legal systems are based on, which has given rise to the system allowing you the liberties you hold dear, seems in itself rather foolish. You've freewill, believe what you want, a God given right and something that is also a Human right, just realise how little you understand my faith.
@SDWLLB yes i get it, god is just, therefore killing children is ok . you have no problem with your choice of god killing children......therefore in your view killing children is ok.
@SDWLLB Your right, i dont understand your faith at all. If all western legal systems were based on the bible, slavery would not be illegal, rape would not be a crime. Murder would be acceptable if the person you murder is of another faith. People who work on the sabbath would be killed, happy would be he/she who dashes children against rocks, Women raped would have to marry their rapist. None of these things are acceptable in any western law system..............
@atheistdawn (Cont 2) also the punishment awaiting the rapist in 2 samuel is clearly listed in Leviticus 20:17 and 20:19, Leviticus 18:6 and 18:9shows it to be wrong to especially because of the family connection; but again the people would know this when samuel was written, so it may have been hidden from you. (cont 3)
@atheistdawn (cont 3) And as for western legal systems being based on biblical teaching this really goes to show your lack of understanding about the origins of the legal systems in the west, their continued subtle uses etc. Slavery was abolished in part due to arguments raised from the bible and Christians due to a NT perspective, not a torah perspective - see William Wilberforce's long battle for abolition in the UK. That God created all men equal etc. (cont 4)
@atheistdawn (cont 4) rape is a crime, restitution must be made for wrongs as per Numbers 5:5-8. Rape can also be classed as a form of adultery depending on whose done it which is actually in the ten commandments, there are issues on translation on this which suggest adultery could also be sexual immorality here, one is not to covet either (also in the 10 commandments, if a person rapes they surely coveted that person first, adding on further ways to show rape as illegal (cont 5)
@atheistdawn (cont 5) also it is stated that oen should love and obey God, if you obey God you don't do sexually immoral things (includes rape), rape is a type of sexual assault and assaults are clearly against the law as well (can be seen in Deuteronomy 17:8, note as well that capital offences are not definitively listed in scripture(there's no section that says and the capital offences are: x y z) but this can be seen by study of the jewish law (cont 6)
@atheistdawn (cont 6) Jewish law is derived from the torah which is the OT and the punishment for this is under Deuteronomy 21:22 - see how this is all piling up now? And I'm just skimming lightly here, because I don't have the space to go truly in depth on these comment boxes. Also take deuteronomy 22:25 is very explicit that rape is wrong. (cont 7)
@atheistdawn (cont 7) The main thing is to now take into context in amongst all this law , how much of this law has transferred into our legal systems and how the NT provides a grace doctrine so that law and religion whilst linked due to morality are somewhat more distinct now. Jesus teaches that one submit to authority i.e. the laws of the land but God has grace. I could talk about this for quite some time and quite extensively. I learn about this for over 6 months in my degree btw (cont 8)
@atheistdawn The main point that you don't grasp is that whilst much of the western legal systems are based on scriptural law - they don't follow it so strictly that our law is purely Jewish. there are for instance influences of roman law too - but the links are very clear and go way back to monarchs and judges even clearly statign where they derive their authority from. Now you've probably never read many legal cases, either modern or from the medieval ages. you also probably don't (cont 10)
@atheistdawn get the system of precedent, the fundamental links existing by Judges, jurisprudence, statute, how these all interweave and build up the history of western, especially common wealth legal systems. But if you wish to get started I suggest you look at Coke - he's very good in this area, I'm talking legal cases from the 1500's, some go back even further to the 1200's and are still relevant law. (cont 11)
@atheistdawn In the USA you'll need to consider the history surrounding the founding of your nation via colonialism, the adoption of British law which is then developed, takes up strong residence as 'church law' which pervaded even after the revolution ,the way that the constitution was formed with theories on natural justice and God interweave in. In short the US system is born out of the English system and so you have even more to take account of. But alas I go into a legal tangent (cont 12)
@atheistdawn And the hilarious thing is that you don't even realise all of this history and how it has developed is based from biblical morality (you already know my views on objective justice). No serious legal scholar or historian would even attempt to deny the role the bible has played in morality, especially western moral views and the western legal system, this is so engrained into our culture that for you to be calling for a 'moral framework outside the bible' is basically a joke (cont 13)
@SDWLLB ..........so you are talking nonsense. The bible isnt completely evil, but to judge the parts evil or not we need a moral framework outside the bible. as you have done yourself, as you said, you have disowned most of the old testament............
@atheistdawn So yes much of western law comes from biblical influence, the 10 commandments make a sturdy basis for this along with the likes of leviticus and deuternonomy, as well as some of jesus' teachings like the neighbour principle and if you insist on deluding yourself that it doesn't I will do my best to sum up a very extensive topic as shortly as possible. ongoing links occur too, the neighbour principle can be seen in legal systems by Donoghue v Stevenson in the 1940's! (cont 9)
@atheistdawn (cont 13) the very things that you take for granted in the ways you think, what you deem moral and immoral stem from and can be found in the bible -I needn't start straying into social science to make this point because it is fairly self evident - even ardent atheists of a better calibre than yourself acknowledge how their moral judgment is formed by all of this. But what can be done and has happened progressively more is that the legal systems have become more secular (cont 14)
@atheistdawn Now this sort of secular law is required, the bible probably isn't going to provide with the law regarding basic traffic regulation and systems, that is clear. But even in strong moral dilemmas the bible still filters into our law today, you'll no doubt have taken note of the case from the 1940's? Well Denning used biblical principles throughout his judgments in modern law - this whilst UK law has been considered in USA cases via a thing call obiter dicta (cont 15)
@atheistdawn So you see the legal system, morals and the bible are so wound up together that to say I am talking nonsense is in itself nonsense, you can be proven quite wrong there by a good thorough study of the law - maybe after a law degree you'd understand this better? It also comes with a good knowledge of history - both legal and non legal history. Furthermore you may need to consider social studies as well but I'm betting all of this has never really come to mind for you. (cont 16)
@atheistdawn So yes, the NT may not be as applicable as it once was but that's not because of secularism but because God came down in his wisdom and grace in the form of Jesus and sacrificed himself for us to remove the burdens we face - a massive topic called grace. I know you don't understand and I hope that maybe you'll look into this concept properly - Jesus is fantastic, it's a privilege to know him and he loves you, loves you to the point of giving his life for you in fact. (cont 17)
@SDWLLB Murder is wrong plain and simple. see how believing in this bullshit leads to a warped morality, your god is right and thats that, and the terrible crimes you justify in order to keep that view. no matter what god does, kills, enslaves, tortures, abuses, it all right because your god did it, and therefore its right. instead of turning your back on this foul god, you hide behind words, meanings. Doesnt that bother you?
@atheistdawn If you knew God you wouldn't talk of God in such a way. And yes rape is a crime - a terrible, horrific crime. An atrocity and one which God condemns as should all of mankind. It's clear God condemns this, rape is not only sexual immorality but it is also an example of a person defiling and violating somebody else, hardly treating another as one would wish to be treated themself. Further it is shown to be wrong, take 2 Samuel 13, the bible shows rape to be wrong.
@SDWLLB i read the section you speak of. not one part of that odd story does it mention rape to be wrong, in fact the lady is told not to take it to heart, forget it and move on. no punishment for the rapist. and even thought the king does speak to him, it isnt clear if that is because he raped her, or because it was incest. Rape is such a heinous crime, there should be more than this to condemn it. it should be in the ten commandments..........
@atheistdawn And as for no punishment for the rapist, King David is fuming for a starter, that will have brought repurcussions even if they aren't explicitly detailed. Let alone that the Absalom is doing his best to comfort his sister after she's been violated, typically English is a very understated language and never does the translations justice, but it's a way of reminding his sister that she's stronger than the act that defiled her and stronger than the man who did it to her. (cont)
@atheistdawn (cont) Absalom then goes on to kill the rapist btw - some would call that punishment you know. Besides this there is much to be said for the punishment awaiting those who are sexually immoral, you've clearly never read any of the teachings on these matters, where justice fails in this world you can bet God knows about it - I wouldn't want to be in the man's shoes who faces God after something so horrendous. (cont 2)
@atheistdawn So I can see why you don't understand, I was once in that position, I was an atheist remember, I pointed this out a while ago - but suffice it so say keep searching - if you are genuinely after the truth . Anyway it's incredibly late, I'm up early tomorrow and I wish you all the best, truly I do. I hope one day you get saved, I really do - you seem inquisitive and that's always a great place to start. Here's hoping one day you experience the happy day the song above talks about :)
@SDWLLB Message after message of assertion without evidence. you know deep inside that a god does not exist, let alone your god. You know the bible is a re-hash of older religions. Confucius and the gita came long before christianity. all this you know..........
@atheistdawn Wow, that's rich - given that I've provided you with referencing within the Bible, I've given you a broad outline of the history and even pointed you to instances that are incredibly easy to find such as Coke (a Judge's name) and Donoghue v Stevenson (case name), the reason I've not gone into more depth is because to do so would take just as many comments in sources alone! It would take me an incredibly long time and you'll still come out with a similar response. (cont 2)
@atheistdawn Confucious is from 551 BC – 479 BC, Judaism is older and Christianity is the natural progression from this, Christianity's roots therefore lay in a system that's older. Gita could be anywhere from 6000 BC to 500 BC, many scholars believe it to be about the 1500 or 1000BC mark making Judaism older. So Christianity, given it is a progression and not a re-hash of Judaism can hardly be called a 're-hash ' of older ones. That is the biggest assertion of this entire conversation.
@SDWLLB So confucious and the gita were before christianity as i said............Christianity took bits from judaism, and Mithraism,( Mithra died for the sins of humanity, had 12 apostles, a last supper....ring any bells?) then broke away from judaism. not a 'natural progression' as you put it.
@atheistdawn Having heard rubbish like this before it seems only right to point out Mithraism was practised from the 1st to 4th centuries AD; it's main base being in Rome and deriving from a Persian deity. So not a natural progression of judaism at all, not only this but given that it is from the same period if not later than Christianity, Christianity can't have taken bits from it. (cont)
@atheistdawn Furthermore Christian sources and texts from the time show that Mithraism adopted similar practices in a way that was a 'diabolical counterfeit' of Christian practices. in other words there are differences, also historical evidence suggests Mithraism was only for Men not for every gender and person as Christianity was. It was also practised in the heady mix of Roman gods worship, so hardly a different religion but one sector of the wider Roman religion at the time. (cont 2)
@atheistdawn Furthermore, assuming you've gotten your information from a certain youtube video that I've seen before then your information seems innacurate, certainly when looking into Mithraism, Mithra is not killed at all so he does not die for sins, he does not have 12 followers but is meant to watch over all his followers, and there is no last supper. It really doesn't take long to find such information out. It is quite clear to see the disparity between your claim and the reality.
@SDWLLB You and reality dont really get on, all the points on mithrais are true. and i did not get them from a you tube video. Christianity has stolen many things from other religions that came before..........interesting you talk of jesus dying for our sins, because jesus dying was all part of your gods plan, the one thing i have never understood is jesus saying 'father forgive them, fo they know not what they do' why does your god need to forgive them?.............
@SDWLLB ..........it was your gods plan from the start to have himself crucified to take all sins away from us, leaving all who believe in christ to act as badly as they want............why do the romans and jews need forgiving? always seemed most unjust to me, especially on the jews who have been labeled christ killers ever since.
@atheistdawn The whole point is that God does not need to forgive them, Jesus intercedes for us despite everything. Humanity chose to sin and God had a plan to put things right, humanity screwed up but humanity doesn't have the power to fix it all. My sin just as much as everyone else's is responsible - our sin held Jesus on the cross, he could've stepped down if wanted to but he loves us so much he was willing to bear such agony through to the end. (cont)
@atheistdawn The forgiveness Jesus asked for was because even in mocking, spitting, beating, crucifying, more mocking and such forth they were still sinning, the Jews at that crucifixion didn't even realise they were crucifying their messiah but Jesus still loved them anyway. The Romans were also committing a sin as well but the beauty of the cross is not in it's savagery but because God turned something tragic into something glorious. He redeems mankind through it. (cont 2)
@atheistdawn That a group of people should be labelled 'Christ killers' is unfair, I agree, it's also ludicrous that they've been persecuted for it. Jesus chose to carry out the plan and if it hadn't happened humanity wouldn't have such grace freely open to them, those people merely played their part. When we sin it's as if we've attended that crucifixion and mocked Jesus too - but God loves us, more than we will ever grasp. But you keep saying 'allowing us to act as badly as we want (cont 3)
@atheistdawn But the point is that we all screw up monumentally, and we have grace open to us. But once we've accepted the grace if the message has truly sunken in and if we really have been redeemed and know Jesus then we don't want to act badly any more. You refer to Christians who are hypocrites. There are 2 points I wish to make here. 1) we're still fundamentally human, we'll mess up at times and again there's grace here and (cont 4)
@atheistdawn the second point: 2) those who accept Christ but don't change their ways, who continue to act very 'badly' or however you wish to put it, probably haven't understood the message, they have not fully realised their salvation. You see when the true wonder of the cross hits you, you actually don't want to sin - why sin and be slave to something so repulsive when there's a better and alternative way? Happiness lays in God and all he has for us. (cont 5)
@atheistdawn A final point is that yes we have grace but it takes time for people to change their ways, not everyone fundamentally changes overnight - it can take time for the layers of the gospel to sink in. I won't lie I still sin at times, but this is reducing as my understanding progresses and as I get to know God better. Praise the Lord I'm learning this. None of us are perfect and that's why we needed grace in the first place! Have a great day :)
@SDWLLB The truth is, that although humans are sometimes evil, we are also noble, capable of great acts of charity and humility. Creators of great technologies, art and music that borders on the sublime. Unfortunately, we also have this need to create gods, And two or three thousand years ago we created a true monster god. You and this gods other followers take all the goodness, all the fun and happiness in life and crush it under foot, judge all humans to be sick in spirit and mind...........
@SDWLLB ........show us our achievements mean nothing , oh yes, ive heard that depressing message from christians many times, a constant wounding reminder of our failings and stupidity, The truly uplifting message of how nothing we do is ever good enough.................
@SDWLLB ........Based on what exactly? a truly foul dusty old book by unknown authors, and a god who's existence has not one scrap of evidence. Christians simply are not needed or wanted, take your foul doctorines, your disdain, and your endless dissapointment, and your god without evidence, and worship him behind closed doors. and let science and reason, evidence and discovery get on with running this world, giving people real benefits and hope.
@atheistdawn You're free to think what you want as I am free to believe what I wish - note though that you chose to go onto a worship video and begin this. But whilst my wrongs may mean that no act I do will ever be good enough to redeem me, Jesus's sacrifice redeems me and God is happy with me, He loves all of us and is the proudest father one can find. He doesn't crush fun underfoot but enhances my fun, he builds me up and supports me. He unconditionally loves. Science is good (cont)
@atheistdawn it helps us see and learn more of God's creation, it allows us to delve deeper into God's awesome creative mind and to revel in his imaginative creativity. And ultimately God loves me, he picks me up gently in my failings and tells me it's ok, maybe next time. He is delicate with me, loving, caring ,kind, unfailing. What people may say to you can be quite different, the not good enough message is saying that you can't redeem yourself in good acts, but God still loves when (cont 2)
@atheistdawn we do good acts, He loves when we look after each other, he loves when we worship and praise him, when we reflect his love and love others as he loves us. What is wrong with that? You really don't seem to know God, which is a shame and I pray someday you will. God is amazing, a cornerstone and firm foundation, my shield and strength, his passion for me and everyone burns so deeply. So fine, say what you want, you have your opinions but so far you've not talked about the God I know
@SDWLLB endless assertions, but at least you stopped saying the human race is 'disgusting and sinfull' and other spirit sapping negativity. but i know you still think it. As for the other assertions, i know you have no idea wether god exists or not, you can say he does til you are blue in the face, But you have not been privy to any information, or learned a secret that i have not. It is just the desperate hoping..............
@SDWLLB ..........but i say agian, there is not one scrap of evidence for any god, let alone your god. everyday you lose ground to science, you are constantly pushed backwards, moving your gods fat arse to the edge of understanding and claiming the darkness as your gods..............
@SDWLLB ............ til science shines the light, and your god is forced to move again. Apart from the fact you crush the human spirit under foot, i feel quite soory for you, yearning, as you do, for the darkness of ignorence like a vampire yearns for the night.
@atheistdawn Well your repeated statements about no evidence are false, that much is made very clear. Go look up evidence in both a dictionary and legal dictionary and you'll realise that you're wrong. There is actually a surprising amount of evidence - what you're actually saying is that one cannot definitively prove God's existence. There is a difference between the two things. Science will never disprove God, and to set science up as the peak is in itself indicative of ignorance (cont)
@atheistdawn Science and faith are not at loggerheads, this is a common misconception and one that really does not affect the majority of the Christian populace, I've got many friends who are scientists and who are Christian. Friends in Medicine, Physics, Bio-chemistry, Chemistry, Biology, Psychology, Geology and Maths. They also go to top institutions such as Birmingham, Warwick and Oxford. Several are also at Masters level too. You're effectively setting up a strawman again (cont 2)
@atheistdawn I can understand why, facing the idea of God can be scary for people, but I just want to reassure you, if and when you do face upto the idea of God - He loves you. But science and faith can and do go hand in hand, there are no issues reconciling the 2. Again I used to think this myself, I was atheist, but it really isn't a justifiable stance to hold. Many of the great minds of science held a faith - so let's dispense with the bogus claim that science and faith can't co-exist.
@SDWLLB It is not scary for me because there is no evidence for any god, let alone your god. Science and religion cannot go hand in hand, science is based on evidence, religion is based on no evidence. Many of the great minds of science were religious because everybody was religious, but in the last two hundred years that has changed, and today very few scientists are religious..............
@SDWLLB ......... and of those, very few are doing any more than paying lip service to their religion. You just have to look at the struggles of Francis Collins, and how he struggles to reconcile the findings of the human genome project and his faith.
@SDWLLB There a surprising amount of evidence for your choice of god?....what evidence is this? show me some...........i also notice you are going down the route of ' cant prove god doesnt exist' if thats all you have to base your faith on then thats pretty sad, for we cant prove the tooth fairy doesnt exist either, do you believe in that too? werewolves? vampires? do you stay in on the full moon in case the werewolves get you?
@atheistdawn The reason I have stated that you can't prove God exists is because my subjective experience is highly unlikely to matter to you much. I am completely certain that God exists, I can even recount the occasion when I first met God - but that does not prove it to you. Remember if there was outright proof then there is no longer freewill, God likes freewill because that is how you know someone's love, praise and worship are genuine. (cont)
@atheistdawn And before going into evidence let us review the definition of evidence!
Evidence is he available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid. It is the means, exclusive of mere argument, which tend to prove or disprove a matter, the truth of which is submitted to investigation. It can be oral, documentary, direct, circumstantial, original, hearsay, direct or indirect, real, derivative, prima facie (cont 2)
@atheistdawn So as for the evidence that can be given let us begin with historical sources that show Jesus was a person who lived 2000 years ago. The following historians (modern and ancient all concur he existed). Modern Scholars Who Have Written about the Historical Jesus E.P. Sanders Geza Vermes John P. Meier David Flusser James H. Charlesworth Raymond E. Brown Paula Fredriksen John Dominic Crossan Charles Guignebert Ben F. Meyer Bart Ehrman (cont 3)
@atheistdawn Greco/Roman/Pagans Who Wrote about Jesus and/or the Early Church Pliny the Younger Tacitus Gaius Suetonius Tranquillus Thallus Celsus Emperor Trajan Emporer Hadrian First Century Jewish Scholars Who Wrote about Jesus and/or the Early Church Mara bar Sarapion Josephus Extra-Biblical Christian Sources for the Historical Jesus Clement, elder of Rome Ignatius, bishop of Antioch Quadratus Justin Martyr Anne Rice is also worth considering. (cont 4)
@atheistdawn The list is further expanded by considering documentation from : CORNELIUS TACITUS, GAIUS SUETONIUS TRANQUILLUS, THALLUS, PLINY THE YOUNGER, CELSUS, LUCIAN OF SAMOSATA, MARA BAR-SERAPION, FLAVIUS JOSEPHUS, THE BABYLONIAN TALMUD, THE NAG HAMMADI LIBRARY Further evidence surrounding the existence of God comes from: Philosophy; there is a significant debate but it has been proven as logical to conclude there is a God. (cont 5)
@atheistdawn Along with philosophy these can be considered:
Subjective experiences and witness testimony - you'll see from the definition of evidence (determined from both a standard and a legal dictionary that this is indeed evidence.
The bible itself is documentary evidence too.
That often arguments against the existence of a God are flawed. They are never neutral, as they are made out to be and there are always assumptions underlying them. There's always the other side to consider (cont 6)
@atheistdawn As we've already discussed, science does not disprove religion nor are they at loggerheads. Recently the BBC released a panorama documentary on this and this was the conclusion - it is worth a watch.
Furthermore the statistics and calculations for how completely improbable life is. These produce some fairly mind blowing conclusions, the slightest change in the earth's position or any other number of outcomes means no life. I don't count that as coincidence (cont 7)
@atheistdawn I also refute your point concerning Francis Collins, DNA shows a wonderful pattern that can be seen as the mark of a creator. It is consistent and it makes sense, when someone builds something there's a tell it's been built, a mark or stamp of it's creator. DNA seems to be God's mark on life.
@atheistdawn When you look at how the earth was formed, how the universe comes into being etc - whilst genesis is largely metaphor - there's a wonderful parallel of genesis actually describing how we know the universe and our solar system, the planet etc came about. I was talking to a friend who does physics, now doing a master's and he went through this. (cont 9)
@atheistdawn Genesis was written by Moses, he had no comprehension of science in the way we do today, yet this telling of creation matches closely to what we know has occurred. He couldn't have known, it's compelling evidence - circumstantial, logically probative.
Consider works such as 'Who moved the stone' as well, they follow a logical and reasoned sequence. That book actually set out to disprove the resurrection but ended up with the author seeing no other explanation (cont 10)
@atheistdawn (cont 10) I suggest to make any headway here you need to actually read some scripture, learn some theology, learn some philosophy, start looking into jurisprudence, take a basic understanding of the law ie what actually constitutes murder. I've been atheist, I know where you're coming from but for the discussion to work you need to at least attempt to get where I'm coming from. You like to level charges, at least give an indication of an example to back it up. Have a great day :)
(cont) God always has a choice, you see your argument requires God to work within the bounds of time and space, but God exists external to such concepts. Your example also only means there's one route he can take, it doesn't take account of if I do this XY&Z happen or I do this and ABC occur. This is a serious flaw in your argument. So he is still all powerful, able to do anything and all knowing. hence omnipotent and omniscient.
@atheistdawn and nothing else compares with it, and I'd even go so far as to say, rather than just bounding around the same tiresome arguments you should try asking God about it all. He loves you, even if you don't realise it, Jesus paid that price for both of us, it's up to you if you accept it or not. But there's little point in us debating it appears to me. So I say God bless, peace be with you and again maybe someday you'll experience the happy day this song's about. :)
@atheistdawn you see this is an argument you won't win, you can rant all you want but you have the same misguided notions as say Richard Dawkins. And because you've not experienced God's love you perhaps don't realise this, suffice it to say nice try, but as you can see from my many comments in reply to yours, (think it's 11/12 now) we're coming from different angles, but I know your angle well. So I honestly hope that in time you do meet with God, it is wonderful when you do, (cont 11)
I dont see why people take Jesus And God For Granted if you dont think he is real hear this My Friends Aunt Prayed to God Day To Day and she had CANCER 1 time she went to a church and someone prayed for her. She fainted and she woke up and said she was cured of Cancer. So dont take Jesus And God for granted. Good Things Can Happen. - Sorry For Spelling Im On The Phone
Do not argue with ignorance. God is real, he brought me out of drugs and alcohol that I depended on for 15 yrs. I never believed until He saved my life physically, emotionally and spiritually. I used to be just like these people on here cursing God and worse, but, for some reason he o-pened my eyes to the truth, I my life has completely changed for the more abundant life HE promised. praise God!
I just got saved... Thanks to this song... In my depression of failure... of what I did to me and those I loved through pride and errogance.... I lost the girl I love and all that she wanted was a strong man... not a man with toys...
@graytgray God will always be there for you. Don't ever forget that. No matter what you are going through- He will be there to pick you up when you fall. Just trust in Him with all of your heart, and give Him your heart. He loves each and every one of us, and his love is unfailing. Remember that. Jer.29:11, Phil. 4:13
Every day is a happy day because of you Jesus!
LyricWriter321 21 hours ago
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@LyricWriter321 Witches, kill them. Homosexuals, kill them.fortunetellers, kill them. those who don`t listen to priests, kill them. those hitting their dad, kill them. those who curse their parents, kill them, adulterers, kill them. fornicators, kill them. people who believe in other religions, kill them. non-believers,kill them. fals prohets ,kill them. blasphemers, kill them. those who work on the Sabbath, kill them. This is the word of Jesus( god) !!
ndzoko 10 hours ago
I can't get enough of this song. The words lift me up, on my most challenging day! It reminds me the God is my King, and he has forever changed me!
videoholic79 2 weeks ago 2
Why wouldn't every day be a HAPPY DAY?! He is ALIVE! He washed our sins AWAY! ...and I know, I will never be the same. Thanks to Jesus and His never ending LOVE♥
Elsanchox 2 weeks ago 3
Great song to start the day with
gruberboyz831 2 weeks ago
this song makes me feel happy :)
XxluizaxX1 3 weeks ago
Great song! :)
Tycho55123 3 weeks ago
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Hey fellow christians!! Please read this!!! My friend named Tim is an amazing man of God and he is starting a youtube pastoring channel because he was called by Jesus to do so at summercamp! His heart is in the right place and he uploads videos every week. God's dream for him is for that channel to get going and spread the gospel through youtube! So please check out his channel "FightersOnFire" that would be so amazing! Thank you all so much and may the Mighty Lord Jesus bless all of you! :)
orangecrush141 1 month ago
Looks like 10 people haven't had a happy day :(
BeatmixerTV 1 month ago 8
GO JESUS!!!
Cedar2326 1 month ago 4
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"God gave me His eyes and opened my blind ones. He opened them to the lonely people around me. When I started seeing all of these people I had never noticed before, I started to sit with them during lunch. So now when I walk into the cafeteria at my school, instead of looking for my friends, my eyes wander to the people who are sitting all alone. It is the beginning of a chain reaction and I am praying that God uses me to open others eyes and help them see the lonely hearts around them. :)
acrazyheartforJC 1 month ago
Daniel Doss sang this live at Fuge Camps in Glorieta, New Mexico! I love this song!!!
ForeverGoobers 2 months ago
Apenas uma chance is beautiful l love jesus
criandonocaos 2 months ago
There's only one thing in the whole, wide world that will never change!
God's never ending love to YOU! :)
NathanWest92 2 months ago 40
i love how shes always laughing
b0uGhTbYChrist 2 months ago 29
@b0uGhTbYChrist OMG ME TOO! Lol
Elsanchox 2 weeks ago
Love this song!
Playing it in Praise team and trying to figure out where to put a solo...
DancinGranny55 2 months ago
LOVE this song!!!!!
sorandadumbdumb5 3 months ago
wonderfull...............Blessings!
RealLoveForYou 3 months ago
Moses wrote the first four books of the Torah, the OT is the Torah, or at least that is the best that historians currently deduce. But even if you say it wasn't Moses who scribed Genesis, any person in that historical time frame has the same lack of scientific knowledge so it's a fairly moot point. So let's progressively go through the initial hurdles of genesis - I'm not sure I'll do this as much justice as my friend because I'm not a physicist and he can explain this better but I'll try (cont)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn Take also commentary's which align to and confirm biblical events such as Macrobius writing about Augustus' reaction to Herod having all the boys under the age of 2 slaughtered in Syria.
Then consider bibliographic testing as well.
Now I shall pause here to take a break given that I've posted a lot. I will also say much of this evidence made little difference to me until after I had had my initial subjective experience. (see past 12 comments)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@SDWLLB First, dont bullshit me, you are not completely certain your god exists. your lying through your teeth!
'God likes freewill' i laughed out loud when i read that, cos god loves freewill so much he gaves us rules!!
The type of evidence im talking of can be tested and verified, otherwise it is not evidence..........
All those learned people, how many of them lived during jesus's time?
atheistdawn 3 months ago
@SDWLLB ........You mention eye witnesses and testamony........who were these eyewitnesses and who testamony are you talking of?
Jesus may have existed, but it is his divintiy we are talking of here.............
As for the rest of your statements, its just a shrug of the shoulders dressed up as faith. but even if it was evidence for a god, you have not given me one argument that shows this god to be your god, and for a theist such as your self that is very telling indeed.............
atheistdawn 3 months ago
@SDWLLB ........and moses wrote genesis, never heard that one before. what matches have you found between genesis and the big bang theory? watch out for the werewolves by the way.............
atheistdawn 3 months ago
@atheistdawn And yes I am certain God exists, just because you lack faith does not mean I do. I shall repeat for the sake of clarity, I am certain God exists! Anyway, Genesis starts with a quick summary 1:1-3
Then it really kicks in.
Genesis 1:3, we have light first. This aligns with the big bang, the vast explosive bang that kicks off the universe, scientists being sure that vast amounts of light and heat would've been emitted from such an explosion.
(cont 2)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn Genesis 1:4 we then gain the distinction between light and darkness. This is again consistent, the hot burning gases formed out of the initial explosion such as hydrogen and possibly helium would burn brightly whilst we also have the dark parts of space at this point. This matter of course spirals denser and denser forming other various elements.
Genesis 1:6 we gain the elements mixing to continue forming and water is formed and compound made of hydrogen and oxygen. (cont 3)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn Gen 1:9 the water on earth collects into oceans and proper land masses appear.
Gen 1:11-13 the land is then colonised with plant life.
Now Gen 1:20 onwards we see life (as in animals) taking place and as you may know Genesis progresses from there.
Now my explanation doesn't include all the various astronomy and astro-physics points my friend managed to make, it is, bluntly put, a crude attempt at repeating his points. But hey, I'm in the game of law not physics (cont 4)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn But suffice it to say that the broad overview is certainly there. It is also worth pointing out that the translation into English misses something of the delicacy of the older Hebrew texts too. Many scholars have pointed out that in translation terms the 7 days can be translated as 7 periods of time and that there is nothing to indicate each period of time has to be the same length as the next. This is also worth bearing in mind when reading through Genesis.
(cont 5)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn And my mention of eyewitness testimony, well we can consider for a start the 4 gospels which document quite a lot. And on a larger scale for the existence of God, you need only ask the plentiful millions of Christians around the world, there is plenty of testimony to be found out there.
If you would like evidence that shows 'this God to be my God' as you've phrased it then I can happily provide you with my testimony. Would you like this? (cont 6)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn The reason I have by and large left this out to date is because normally when talking to atheists they don't like me to talk about why I became Christian, they don't want to know the subjective side of it all. They want things that can be perceived as more objective, now I won't lie faith's always going to play a part, but I have endeavoured to give you plenty of sources to look into in an attempt to be as objective as possible, one will never truly be objective here mind.(cont 7)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn some of the older sources I've provided you with are from people around literally just after Jesus' lifetime, one or two could well have been around during his lifetime. Certainly several of the ancient secular historians make detailed referencing to records held at the time which were written during the course of Jesus' lifetime unfortunately these records no longer exist. (cont 8)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn The sacking of Rome and Jerusalem had a heavy toll and for original documents of which there were probably only one at most a few sets of copies to survive 2000 years always had the odds stacked against it.
Anyway I'm happy to share my testimony if you'd like. It goes back about 5 years and there are some very personal parts to it. I would ask only that you show some respect if I share it. It has been an interesting and eventful journey so far (cont 9)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn Certainly it may take a lot of posts, I am therefore happy to send it you via a message if you'd prefer. Do you want me to share my testimony and personal reasons for my belief in God and Jesus and do you agree to be respectful of it?
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@SDWLLB ok, first you tell me moses wrote genesis, then suddenly he didnt. 7 days, 7 ages? what are the seven ages of the last 13.5 billion years? i know of only three so far, the primordeal gases that formed into mainly hydrogen which led through gravity to the stelliferous peroid. the period we are in now, after this period when all the stars are dead...............
atheistdawn 3 months ago
@SDWLLB over trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions of years they will slowly melt away to nothing, the last black holes will die, then nothing forever and ever......entropic heat death of the universe. None of the people you mentioned lived during the time of jesus............
atheistdawn 3 months ago
@SDWLLB.......and as for the gospels, they are not testamony, they were written by who? and written long after jesus died. and im not being offensive but your personel testamony means nothing, i want hard evidence. something so far you are lacking it has to be said.
atheistdawn 3 months ago
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@atheistdawn 'ok, first you tell me moses wrote genesis, then suddenly he didnt.' - I've merely told you that the perspective of scholars and historians is Moses wrote them. I've not suddenly changed my mind but merely been open with you and clarified that even if he didn't it doesn't change anything, that is called a hypothetical thought process. And actually your theory that there will be nothing is just that, theory.
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn There is also another scientific theory that whilst we know the universe is expanding, one day it will begin contracting and eventually end up crushing in on itself. A further theory to add in is that said crushing could cause a cyclical effect and produce a second big bang type event. But again, theory, you don't know what will happen just as I don't. (cont)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn And your dismissal that none of the people were alive when Jesus was isn't 100% true either, many of the dates of birth are unknown. His birth date is unknown but his works are from around 55-57AD. This means he could well have realistically been alive when Jesus was. This is but one example. Given Jesus is thought to have lived from 0AD to between 30-37AD (give or take several years leeway on either side) it is probable Thallus was at least around by Jesus' death (cont 2)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn And the gospels can be counted as testimony. There is debate over whether or not the actual Matthew, Mark, Luke and John scribed them - this means they could well have been written by them. And since it is widely held that Luke compiled his account from eyewitnesses it can be classed as testimony.
Even if the oral version was passed on and then finally compiled in writing it would count as testimonial accounts of Jesus such as the Hadith do in the Islamic tradition. (cont 3)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn And if you want hard evidence then you're going to have to define what you mean. I've given you the actual definitions of evidence, you have a wealth of historical evidence to look at, there is a wealth of testimony out there, just ask Christians about their journey. But so far you've not given any indication of what you count as evidence - you've not said what you class as evidence, proof or any such thing. Define hard evidence. (cont 4)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn If you're after 100% proof you'll never get it, even science does not offer you that. Science, especially physics, works off an accepted definition for a "discovery": a five-sigma level of certainty. It is based purely on observation and if the same result appears in a way that is the equivalent of flipping a coin and tossing 20 heads in a row it is given a five sigma level. It's hardly outright proof but strong observational coherence. So what's your definition of 'hard evidence'?
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@SDWLLB My definition of evidence is something that is something you can test, and repeat again and again and the conclusuion is always the same. Because the evidence for a god, and your god is non existant, rather than conclude a god or your god doesnt exist, you look at the definition of evidence as having some sort of flaw. for example im 100% sure humans exist.................
atheistdawn 3 months ago
@atheistdawn oh and you forgot to give me the seven ages of the universe too............
atheistdawn 3 months ago
@atheistdawn Ok, again you're using a massive straw man argument, can't seem to stop yourself from doing that. I have at no point shown or indicated anything other than my absolute certainty God exists. And judging by what you count as 'evidence' many theories that you no doubt take as fact can't be deemed to have evidence. The reasons I have for believing God exists actually align with some of the points you make, you look at/ can see humans - they exist (cont)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn I have repeatedly felt and experienced God so he exists. For me that has been tested, it might not have been for you but it has been for me. This is also the case for countless millions of people all over the world, some sources even suggest there being around 2 billion Christians in the world. So if I use your own test it works for me. That one can never be 100% sure is actually both a scientific and philosophical principle, something worth noting at this juncture (cont 2)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn And as for the 7 periods of time mentioned in the creation story in genesis, I think you'll find that nobody knows the exact time frames of when/ how long these were, however loosely speaking, since Genesis provides for the occurrences it would be indicative that each time frame has already been loosely outlined for you. E.g. the big bang could well count as on period of time. Although I'm not sure why you're getting caught up on this, it was a point to show that (cont 3)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn translation does mean semantics can be lost in translation along with certain levels of context. Another example is that there are several different words in greek for love, each with it's own connotations and semantic value but again these can often be missed in the English translations.
I also notice you've used several Terry Pratchett Characters from the Hogfather as if to try and make a point. However since you've used a straw man to not only massively oversimplify my (cont 4)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn views but also rather misstated my views as well your point is rather moot. We've not even really begun to delve deep enough into my beliefs for you to attempt to make such an assumption and it is as always a very typical argument that atheists like to adopt. The problem being that here you are assuming atheist generalisations on my beliefs without checking to see my beliefs first. (cont 5)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn It's funny, there's been some very good articles about this sort of thing recently. The guardian has recently had several articles in a series looking at this area in general. Look up "Julian Baggini: Heathen's progress" I don't agree with everything he says but he raises some very good points on the typical failures of discussions between atheists and those of a faith. Now I've been atheist so I remember much of the viewpoints and stances (cont 6)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn But I am aware some of your views will inherently differ from what mine were as an atheist. By the same token my beliefs are not going to fit into the massive stereotype that you think they do. There is a wealth of material on such points and a complex undertone of theology, philosophy, personal experience etc to it. Now I have offered to share my experience with you so that we might get somewhere but on the proviso you're respectful of it. That's not to say you can't (cont 7)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn disagree with it but if you do so, please do so in a more respectful manner than you've done to date. I too am willing to hear of why you believe what you do, how you got there etc. But suffice it to say you've made some very brash assumptions throughout the discussion to date and often write in a disrespectful manner such as 'your head disappearing up your own ass', this neither makes a point nor moves the discussion forward. Do you really think such statements will endear (cont 8)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn me to your views in any way? That is just being derogatory and insulting for no good reason. I could be equally as repugnant and write back something similar in an equally insulting vein but do not wish to because I'd actually like this discussion to move forwards. So on this note I am going to say please, go and read the articles I've mentioned, consider the manner in which you converse with me and then once you've done that maybe we can get somewhere. (cont 9)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn So I say farewell to you, have a great day and why not send me a message or inbox me when you're a bit more ready to talk with a level of composure and dignity. All the best, peace be with you.
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@SDWLLB OMG i love you man you ROCK. that's how a christian is supposed to be :) though peace be with you is a witch thing isn't it? doesnt matter its nice. :) God bless!
SeaLakes 2 months ago
@SeaLakes Thanks - peace be with you is something known as 'the peace' it's often used in the C of E, Anglican churches and sometimes more widely. Often it is said whilst shaking a hands or even giving a hug (such as in the free church). It conveys a sense of God's love and the peace his spirit can bring - different churches and cultures take different stances on it - just felt it may brighten people's day :) God bless and also peace be with you! Also, love this song!
SDWLLB 2 months ago 2
@SDWLLB.......you can look at the evidence and the conclusion and testing always come up the same...humans exist. but by your reckoning humans may not exist, because you can never be 100% sure anything exists, i should also add yesterday you said you were certain god exists, now it seems you are not........................
atheistdawn 3 months ago
@SDWLLB.........but dont you see how far your head is dissapearing up your own ass to prove your god is there. and if we take your veiw on things then once again, everything exists.krishna, vampires, werewolves ( remember them!) zeus, amon ra, sock thief, pimple gnome, god of hangovers
atheistdawn 3 months ago
@atheist dawn Take also commentary's which align to and confirm biblical events such as Macrobius writing about Augustus' reaction to Herod having all the boys under the age of 2 slaughtered in Syria.
Then consider bibliographic testing as well.
Now I shall pause here to take a break given that I've posted a lot. I will also say much of this evidence made little difference to me until after I had had my initial subjective experience.
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheist dawn (cont 12) Nothing I ever do will be good enough, it has nothing to do with me or my actions, it is down to God's goodness, Jesus' sacrifice. Such a stark contrast, made me both critical of Christianity but also made it's doctrine coherent.
I also began to pray and my prayers were answered.
There is also a vast array of other historical evidence. including:
CLEMENT OF ROME
IGNATIUS OF ANTIOCH
QUADRATUS OF ATHENS
ARISTIDES THE ATHENIAN
JUSTIN MARTYR
HEGESIPPUS
(cont 12)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheist dawn I used to be atheist and spent 2 years as an agnostic before becoming Christian. I researched into many other world wide religions as well, I did look into as many as I could and did in-depth research on them. I found them to be lacking for one reason or another. Christianity certainly stood out, it was the only one that did not follow a typical consensus, good deeds get you into heaven. It was almost scandalous to see that it was grace.
SDWLLB 3 months ago
NO OTHER SONG CAN MAKE YOU THAT HAPPY BUT THIS SONG. THATS POWER IN HIS NAME!
FenderJulz 3 months ago
@atheistdawn (cont 11) btw you may be trying to convince me but it won't work, I know who God is, he's living, grace filled, forgiving, just, holy - he actually has a good sense of humour, is giving, kind and loving. I've got a personal relationship with him and your attempts to create doubt don't really work so unless you're serious about trying to understand something more of Christianity then it's pointless because you're just looking to defame God in the comments on a video made for worship
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@SDWLLB yes we know god has no problem with murder, after all he kills children, and ask his followers to commit murder, so we know your god has no problem with murder. Jurisprudence sets out that the law is not always moral. killing another human being is wrong from a moral point of view, and shows god there fore has no morals, and its unlawful from a human point of view too. all you have demonstrated is that humans have moved on from this morality free zone called god............
atheistdawn 3 months ago
@SDWLLB..........and its two thousand year old rules. for instance rape, not one word from your god or the bible on rape being a crime, therefore in your world of objective law, rape is a good thing. however in the world of the normal person, rape is a heinous crime. oh and dont forget, there is not one scrap of evidence for your objective law, or your god. the more i read your messages the more my flesh starts to creep........
atheistdawn 3 months ago
@atheistdawn Who said rape is okay!?
MissHannie23 3 months ago
@SDWLLB...........its sounds horribly like you think you rules of your unproven choice of god amoungst thousands of unproven gods, and evil old book are more important than human lives today....i hope that is not so.
atheistdawn 3 months ago
@atheistdawn And again proving you know little of scripture, it's obvious you've not looked at Matthew and Jesus laying out the two most important commandments from your reply. And the point is this, I actually care about human life a heck of a lot - I care so much I'd like people to also have a wonderful afterlife in heaven too. I am a massive advocate of Human Rights esp. UDHR and ECHR but because of your complete misunderstanding of the bible etc you miss this - which is a shame :( (cont)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@SDWLLB ok , lets give you something you cant slime out of............is rape a crime?
atheistdawn 3 months ago
@atheistdawn Yes. Rape is a crime. It's not only illegal, but God tells us in the Bible it's wrong. He says to not have sex before marriage, and to treat people as you would want to be treated. Where are you getting these false accusations? You must know nothing about God.
MissHannie23 3 months ago
@MissHannie23 Where in the bible does god tell us its wrong?
atheistdawn 3 months ago
@atheistdawn With reference to your question to @MissHannie23 - I've given you one instance already from 2 Samuel, let alone the repeated commentary throughout the OT and NT against pre-marital sex, sexual immorality (obvious that rape comes under this category so it's wrong), the treat others as you wish to be treated passage, this is both in Leviticus and Jesus makes a very clear point on this being the second greatest commandment (see Matthew), are you just not listening/ reading?
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn Objective theory is as proveable as subjective theory, which you appear to advocate, I am sorry if you don't understand the neighbour principle or jurisprudence surrounding issues of justice, I'm sorry you don't understand that I'm not layering rules but trying to get across the point that God is just, loving and as a result gave his Son for you so that you may know grace. (cont 2)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn It sounds horribly like you purposely don't want to understand any of my beliefs and rather like defaming things people hold dear. To call the bible evil, the very book that all western legal systems are based on, which has given rise to the system allowing you the liberties you hold dear, seems in itself rather foolish. You've freewill, believe what you want, a God given right and something that is also a Human right, just realise how little you understand my faith.
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@SDWLLB yes i get it, god is just, therefore killing children is ok . you have no problem with your choice of god killing children......therefore in your view killing children is ok.
atheistdawn 3 months ago
@SDWLLB Your right, i dont understand your faith at all. If all western legal systems were based on the bible, slavery would not be illegal, rape would not be a crime. Murder would be acceptable if the person you murder is of another faith. People who work on the sabbath would be killed, happy would be he/she who dashes children against rocks, Women raped would have to marry their rapist. None of these things are acceptable in any western law system..............
atheistdawn 3 months ago
@atheistdawn (Cont 2) also the punishment awaiting the rapist in 2 samuel is clearly listed in Leviticus 20:17 and 20:19, Leviticus 18:6 and 18:9shows it to be wrong to especially because of the family connection; but again the people would know this when samuel was written, so it may have been hidden from you. (cont 3)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn (cont 3) And as for western legal systems being based on biblical teaching this really goes to show your lack of understanding about the origins of the legal systems in the west, their continued subtle uses etc. Slavery was abolished in part due to arguments raised from the bible and Christians due to a NT perspective, not a torah perspective - see William Wilberforce's long battle for abolition in the UK. That God created all men equal etc. (cont 4)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn (cont 4) rape is a crime, restitution must be made for wrongs as per Numbers 5:5-8. Rape can also be classed as a form of adultery depending on whose done it which is actually in the ten commandments, there are issues on translation on this which suggest adultery could also be sexual immorality here, one is not to covet either (also in the 10 commandments, if a person rapes they surely coveted that person first, adding on further ways to show rape as illegal (cont 5)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn (cont 5) also it is stated that oen should love and obey God, if you obey God you don't do sexually immoral things (includes rape), rape is a type of sexual assault and assaults are clearly against the law as well (can be seen in Deuteronomy 17:8, note as well that capital offences are not definitively listed in scripture(there's no section that says and the capital offences are: x y z) but this can be seen by study of the jewish law (cont 6)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn (cont 6) Jewish law is derived from the torah which is the OT and the punishment for this is under Deuteronomy 21:22 - see how this is all piling up now? And I'm just skimming lightly here, because I don't have the space to go truly in depth on these comment boxes. Also take deuteronomy 22:25 is very explicit that rape is wrong. (cont 7)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn (cont 7) The main thing is to now take into context in amongst all this law , how much of this law has transferred into our legal systems and how the NT provides a grace doctrine so that law and religion whilst linked due to morality are somewhat more distinct now. Jesus teaches that one submit to authority i.e. the laws of the land but God has grace. I could talk about this for quite some time and quite extensively. I learn about this for over 6 months in my degree btw (cont 8)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn The main point that you don't grasp is that whilst much of the western legal systems are based on scriptural law - they don't follow it so strictly that our law is purely Jewish. there are for instance influences of roman law too - but the links are very clear and go way back to monarchs and judges even clearly statign where they derive their authority from. Now you've probably never read many legal cases, either modern or from the medieval ages. you also probably don't (cont 10)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn get the system of precedent, the fundamental links existing by Judges, jurisprudence, statute, how these all interweave and build up the history of western, especially common wealth legal systems. But if you wish to get started I suggest you look at Coke - he's very good in this area, I'm talking legal cases from the 1500's, some go back even further to the 1200's and are still relevant law. (cont 11)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn In the USA you'll need to consider the history surrounding the founding of your nation via colonialism, the adoption of British law which is then developed, takes up strong residence as 'church law' which pervaded even after the revolution ,the way that the constitution was formed with theories on natural justice and God interweave in. In short the US system is born out of the English system and so you have even more to take account of. But alas I go into a legal tangent (cont 12)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn And the hilarious thing is that you don't even realise all of this history and how it has developed is based from biblical morality (you already know my views on objective justice). No serious legal scholar or historian would even attempt to deny the role the bible has played in morality, especially western moral views and the western legal system, this is so engrained into our culture that for you to be calling for a 'moral framework outside the bible' is basically a joke (cont 13)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@SDWLLB ..........so you are talking nonsense. The bible isnt completely evil, but to judge the parts evil or not we need a moral framework outside the bible. as you have done yourself, as you said, you have disowned most of the old testament............
atheistdawn 3 months ago
@atheistdawn So yes much of western law comes from biblical influence, the 10 commandments make a sturdy basis for this along with the likes of leviticus and deuternonomy, as well as some of jesus' teachings like the neighbour principle and if you insist on deluding yourself that it doesn't I will do my best to sum up a very extensive topic as shortly as possible. ongoing links occur too, the neighbour principle can be seen in legal systems by Donoghue v Stevenson in the 1940's! (cont 9)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn (cont 13) the very things that you take for granted in the ways you think, what you deem moral and immoral stem from and can be found in the bible -I needn't start straying into social science to make this point because it is fairly self evident - even ardent atheists of a better calibre than yourself acknowledge how their moral judgment is formed by all of this. But what can be done and has happened progressively more is that the legal systems have become more secular (cont 14)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn Now this sort of secular law is required, the bible probably isn't going to provide with the law regarding basic traffic regulation and systems, that is clear. But even in strong moral dilemmas the bible still filters into our law today, you'll no doubt have taken note of the case from the 1940's? Well Denning used biblical principles throughout his judgments in modern law - this whilst UK law has been considered in USA cases via a thing call obiter dicta (cont 15)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn So you see the legal system, morals and the bible are so wound up together that to say I am talking nonsense is in itself nonsense, you can be proven quite wrong there by a good thorough study of the law - maybe after a law degree you'd understand this better? It also comes with a good knowledge of history - both legal and non legal history. Furthermore you may need to consider social studies as well but I'm betting all of this has never really come to mind for you. (cont 16)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn So yes, the NT may not be as applicable as it once was but that's not because of secularism but because God came down in his wisdom and grace in the form of Jesus and sacrificed himself for us to remove the burdens we face - a massive topic called grace. I know you don't understand and I hope that maybe you'll look into this concept properly - Jesus is fantastic, it's a privilege to know him and he loves you, loves you to the point of giving his life for you in fact. (cont 17)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@SDWLLB Murder is wrong plain and simple. see how believing in this bullshit leads to a warped morality, your god is right and thats that, and the terrible crimes you justify in order to keep that view. no matter what god does, kills, enslaves, tortures, abuses, it all right because your god did it, and therefore its right. instead of turning your back on this foul god, you hide behind words, meanings. Doesnt that bother you?
atheistdawn 3 months ago
@atheistdawn If you knew God you wouldn't talk of God in such a way. And yes rape is a crime - a terrible, horrific crime. An atrocity and one which God condemns as should all of mankind. It's clear God condemns this, rape is not only sexual immorality but it is also an example of a person defiling and violating somebody else, hardly treating another as one would wish to be treated themself. Further it is shown to be wrong, take 2 Samuel 13, the bible shows rape to be wrong.
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@SDWLLB i read the section you speak of. not one part of that odd story does it mention rape to be wrong, in fact the lady is told not to take it to heart, forget it and move on. no punishment for the rapist. and even thought the king does speak to him, it isnt clear if that is because he raped her, or because it was incest. Rape is such a heinous crime, there should be more than this to condemn it. it should be in the ten commandments..........
atheistdawn 3 months ago
@atheistdawn And as for no punishment for the rapist, King David is fuming for a starter, that will have brought repurcussions even if they aren't explicitly detailed. Let alone that the Absalom is doing his best to comfort his sister after she's been violated, typically English is a very understated language and never does the translations justice, but it's a way of reminding his sister that she's stronger than the act that defiled her and stronger than the man who did it to her. (cont)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn (cont) Absalom then goes on to kill the rapist btw - some would call that punishment you know. Besides this there is much to be said for the punishment awaiting those who are sexually immoral, you've clearly never read any of the teachings on these matters, where justice fails in this world you can bet God knows about it - I wouldn't want to be in the man's shoes who faces God after something so horrendous. (cont 2)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn So I can see why you don't understand, I was once in that position, I was an atheist remember, I pointed this out a while ago - but suffice it so say keep searching - if you are genuinely after the truth . Anyway it's incredibly late, I'm up early tomorrow and I wish you all the best, truly I do. I hope one day you get saved, I really do - you seem inquisitive and that's always a great place to start. Here's hoping one day you experience the happy day the song above talks about :)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@SDWLLB Message after message of assertion without evidence. you know deep inside that a god does not exist, let alone your god. You know the bible is a re-hash of older religions. Confucius and the gita came long before christianity. all this you know..........
atheistdawn 3 months ago
@atheistdawn Wow, that's rich - given that I've provided you with referencing within the Bible, I've given you a broad outline of the history and even pointed you to instances that are incredibly easy to find such as Coke (a Judge's name) and Donoghue v Stevenson (case name), the reason I've not gone into more depth is because to do so would take just as many comments in sources alone! It would take me an incredibly long time and you'll still come out with a similar response. (cont 2)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn Confucious is from 551 BC – 479 BC, Judaism is older and Christianity is the natural progression from this, Christianity's roots therefore lay in a system that's older. Gita could be anywhere from 6000 BC to 500 BC, many scholars believe it to be about the 1500 or 1000BC mark making Judaism older. So Christianity, given it is a progression and not a re-hash of Judaism can hardly be called a 're-hash ' of older ones. That is the biggest assertion of this entire conversation.
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@SDWLLB So confucious and the gita were before christianity as i said............Christianity took bits from judaism, and Mithraism,( Mithra died for the sins of humanity, had 12 apostles, a last supper....ring any bells?) then broke away from judaism. not a 'natural progression' as you put it.
atheistdawn 3 months ago
@atheistdawn Having heard rubbish like this before it seems only right to point out Mithraism was practised from the 1st to 4th centuries AD; it's main base being in Rome and deriving from a Persian deity. So not a natural progression of judaism at all, not only this but given that it is from the same period if not later than Christianity, Christianity can't have taken bits from it. (cont)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn Furthermore Christian sources and texts from the time show that Mithraism adopted similar practices in a way that was a 'diabolical counterfeit' of Christian practices. in other words there are differences, also historical evidence suggests Mithraism was only for Men not for every gender and person as Christianity was. It was also practised in the heady mix of Roman gods worship, so hardly a different religion but one sector of the wider Roman religion at the time. (cont 2)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn Furthermore, assuming you've gotten your information from a certain youtube video that I've seen before then your information seems innacurate, certainly when looking into Mithraism, Mithra is not killed at all so he does not die for sins, he does not have 12 followers but is meant to watch over all his followers, and there is no last supper. It really doesn't take long to find such information out. It is quite clear to see the disparity between your claim and the reality.
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@SDWLLB You and reality dont really get on, all the points on mithrais are true. and i did not get them from a you tube video. Christianity has stolen many things from other religions that came before..........interesting you talk of jesus dying for our sins, because jesus dying was all part of your gods plan, the one thing i have never understood is jesus saying 'father forgive them, fo they know not what they do' why does your god need to forgive them?.............
atheistdawn 3 months ago
@SDWLLB ..........it was your gods plan from the start to have himself crucified to take all sins away from us, leaving all who believe in christ to act as badly as they want............why do the romans and jews need forgiving? always seemed most unjust to me, especially on the jews who have been labeled christ killers ever since.
atheistdawn 3 months ago
@atheistdawn The whole point is that God does not need to forgive them, Jesus intercedes for us despite everything. Humanity chose to sin and God had a plan to put things right, humanity screwed up but humanity doesn't have the power to fix it all. My sin just as much as everyone else's is responsible - our sin held Jesus on the cross, he could've stepped down if wanted to but he loves us so much he was willing to bear such agony through to the end. (cont)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn The forgiveness Jesus asked for was because even in mocking, spitting, beating, crucifying, more mocking and such forth they were still sinning, the Jews at that crucifixion didn't even realise they were crucifying their messiah but Jesus still loved them anyway. The Romans were also committing a sin as well but the beauty of the cross is not in it's savagery but because God turned something tragic into something glorious. He redeems mankind through it. (cont 2)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn That a group of people should be labelled 'Christ killers' is unfair, I agree, it's also ludicrous that they've been persecuted for it. Jesus chose to carry out the plan and if it hadn't happened humanity wouldn't have such grace freely open to them, those people merely played their part. When we sin it's as if we've attended that crucifixion and mocked Jesus too - but God loves us, more than we will ever grasp. But you keep saying 'allowing us to act as badly as we want (cont 3)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn But the point is that we all screw up monumentally, and we have grace open to us. But once we've accepted the grace if the message has truly sunken in and if we really have been redeemed and know Jesus then we don't want to act badly any more. You refer to Christians who are hypocrites. There are 2 points I wish to make here. 1) we're still fundamentally human, we'll mess up at times and again there's grace here and (cont 4)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn the second point: 2) those who accept Christ but don't change their ways, who continue to act very 'badly' or however you wish to put it, probably haven't understood the message, they have not fully realised their salvation. You see when the true wonder of the cross hits you, you actually don't want to sin - why sin and be slave to something so repulsive when there's a better and alternative way? Happiness lays in God and all he has for us. (cont 5)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn A final point is that yes we have grace but it takes time for people to change their ways, not everyone fundamentally changes overnight - it can take time for the layers of the gospel to sink in. I won't lie I still sin at times, but this is reducing as my understanding progresses and as I get to know God better. Praise the Lord I'm learning this. None of us are perfect and that's why we needed grace in the first place! Have a great day :)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@SDWLLB The truth is, that although humans are sometimes evil, we are also noble, capable of great acts of charity and humility. Creators of great technologies, art and music that borders on the sublime. Unfortunately, we also have this need to create gods, And two or three thousand years ago we created a true monster god. You and this gods other followers take all the goodness, all the fun and happiness in life and crush it under foot, judge all humans to be sick in spirit and mind...........
atheistdawn 3 months ago
@SDWLLB ........show us our achievements mean nothing , oh yes, ive heard that depressing message from christians many times, a constant wounding reminder of our failings and stupidity, The truly uplifting message of how nothing we do is ever good enough.................
atheistdawn 3 months ago
@SDWLLB ........Based on what exactly? a truly foul dusty old book by unknown authors, and a god who's existence has not one scrap of evidence. Christians simply are not needed or wanted, take your foul doctorines, your disdain, and your endless dissapointment, and your god without evidence, and worship him behind closed doors. and let science and reason, evidence and discovery get on with running this world, giving people real benefits and hope.
atheistdawn 3 months ago
@atheistdawn You're free to think what you want as I am free to believe what I wish - note though that you chose to go onto a worship video and begin this. But whilst my wrongs may mean that no act I do will ever be good enough to redeem me, Jesus's sacrifice redeems me and God is happy with me, He loves all of us and is the proudest father one can find. He doesn't crush fun underfoot but enhances my fun, he builds me up and supports me. He unconditionally loves. Science is good (cont)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn it helps us see and learn more of God's creation, it allows us to delve deeper into God's awesome creative mind and to revel in his imaginative creativity. And ultimately God loves me, he picks me up gently in my failings and tells me it's ok, maybe next time. He is delicate with me, loving, caring ,kind, unfailing. What people may say to you can be quite different, the not good enough message is saying that you can't redeem yourself in good acts, but God still loves when (cont 2)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn we do good acts, He loves when we look after each other, he loves when we worship and praise him, when we reflect his love and love others as he loves us. What is wrong with that? You really don't seem to know God, which is a shame and I pray someday you will. God is amazing, a cornerstone and firm foundation, my shield and strength, his passion for me and everyone burns so deeply. So fine, say what you want, you have your opinions but so far you've not talked about the God I know
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@SDWLLB endless assertions, but at least you stopped saying the human race is 'disgusting and sinfull' and other spirit sapping negativity. but i know you still think it. As for the other assertions, i know you have no idea wether god exists or not, you can say he does til you are blue in the face, But you have not been privy to any information, or learned a secret that i have not. It is just the desperate hoping..............
atheistdawn 3 months ago
@SDWLLB ..........but i say agian, there is not one scrap of evidence for any god, let alone your god. everyday you lose ground to science, you are constantly pushed backwards, moving your gods fat arse to the edge of understanding and claiming the darkness as your gods..............
atheistdawn 3 months ago
@SDWLLB ............ til science shines the light, and your god is forced to move again. Apart from the fact you crush the human spirit under foot, i feel quite soory for you, yearning, as you do, for the darkness of ignorence like a vampire yearns for the night.
atheistdawn 3 months ago
@atheistdawn Well your repeated statements about no evidence are false, that much is made very clear. Go look up evidence in both a dictionary and legal dictionary and you'll realise that you're wrong. There is actually a surprising amount of evidence - what you're actually saying is that one cannot definitively prove God's existence. There is a difference between the two things. Science will never disprove God, and to set science up as the peak is in itself indicative of ignorance (cont)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn Science and faith are not at loggerheads, this is a common misconception and one that really does not affect the majority of the Christian populace, I've got many friends who are scientists and who are Christian. Friends in Medicine, Physics, Bio-chemistry, Chemistry, Biology, Psychology, Geology and Maths. They also go to top institutions such as Birmingham, Warwick and Oxford. Several are also at Masters level too. You're effectively setting up a strawman again (cont 2)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn I can understand why, facing the idea of God can be scary for people, but I just want to reassure you, if and when you do face upto the idea of God - He loves you. But science and faith can and do go hand in hand, there are no issues reconciling the 2. Again I used to think this myself, I was atheist, but it really isn't a justifiable stance to hold. Many of the great minds of science held a faith - so let's dispense with the bogus claim that science and faith can't co-exist.
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@SDWLLB It is not scary for me because there is no evidence for any god, let alone your god. Science and religion cannot go hand in hand, science is based on evidence, religion is based on no evidence. Many of the great minds of science were religious because everybody was religious, but in the last two hundred years that has changed, and today very few scientists are religious..............
atheistdawn 3 months ago
@SDWLLB ......... and of those, very few are doing any more than paying lip service to their religion. You just have to look at the struggles of Francis Collins, and how he struggles to reconcile the findings of the human genome project and his faith.
atheistdawn 3 months ago
@SDWLLB There a surprising amount of evidence for your choice of god?....what evidence is this? show me some...........i also notice you are going down the route of ' cant prove god doesnt exist' if thats all you have to base your faith on then thats pretty sad, for we cant prove the tooth fairy doesnt exist either, do you believe in that too? werewolves? vampires? do you stay in on the full moon in case the werewolves get you?
atheistdawn 3 months ago
@atheistdawn The reason I have stated that you can't prove God exists is because my subjective experience is highly unlikely to matter to you much. I am completely certain that God exists, I can even recount the occasion when I first met God - but that does not prove it to you. Remember if there was outright proof then there is no longer freewill, God likes freewill because that is how you know someone's love, praise and worship are genuine. (cont)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn And before going into evidence let us review the definition of evidence!
Evidence is he available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid. It is the means, exclusive of mere argument, which tend to prove or disprove a matter, the truth of which is submitted to investigation. It can be oral, documentary, direct, circumstantial, original, hearsay, direct or indirect, real, derivative, prima facie (cont 2)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
SDWLLB 3 months ago
SDWLLB 3 months ago
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn Along with philosophy these can be considered:
Subjective experiences and witness testimony - you'll see from the definition of evidence (determined from both a standard and a legal dictionary that this is indeed evidence.
The bible itself is documentary evidence too.
That often arguments against the existence of a God are flawed. They are never neutral, as they are made out to be and there are always assumptions underlying them. There's always the other side to consider (cont 6)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn As we've already discussed, science does not disprove religion nor are they at loggerheads. Recently the BBC released a panorama documentary on this and this was the conclusion - it is worth a watch.
Furthermore the statistics and calculations for how completely improbable life is. These produce some fairly mind blowing conclusions, the slightest change in the earth's position or any other number of outcomes means no life. I don't count that as coincidence (cont 7)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn I also refute your point concerning Francis Collins, DNA shows a wonderful pattern that can be seen as the mark of a creator. It is consistent and it makes sense, when someone builds something there's a tell it's been built, a mark or stamp of it's creator. DNA seems to be God's mark on life.
(cont 8)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn When you look at how the earth was formed, how the universe comes into being etc - whilst genesis is largely metaphor - there's a wonderful parallel of genesis actually describing how we know the universe and our solar system, the planet etc came about. I was talking to a friend who does physics, now doing a master's and he went through this. (cont 9)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn Genesis was written by Moses, he had no comprehension of science in the way we do today, yet this telling of creation matches closely to what we know has occurred. He couldn't have known, it's compelling evidence - circumstantial, logically probative.
Consider works such as 'Who moved the stone' as well, they follow a logical and reasoned sequence. That book actually set out to disprove the resurrection but ended up with the author seeing no other explanation (cont 10)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn (cont 10) I suggest to make any headway here you need to actually read some scripture, learn some theology, learn some philosophy, start looking into jurisprudence, take a basic understanding of the law ie what actually constitutes murder. I've been atheist, I know where you're coming from but for the discussion to work you need to at least attempt to get where I'm coming from. You like to level charges, at least give an indication of an example to back it up. Have a great day :)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
(cont) God always has a choice, you see your argument requires God to work within the bounds of time and space, but God exists external to such concepts. Your example also only means there's one route he can take, it doesn't take account of if I do this XY&Z happen or I do this and ABC occur. This is a serious flaw in your argument. So he is still all powerful, able to do anything and all knowing. hence omnipotent and omniscient.
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn and nothing else compares with it, and I'd even go so far as to say, rather than just bounding around the same tiresome arguments you should try asking God about it all. He loves you, even if you don't realise it, Jesus paid that price for both of us, it's up to you if you accept it or not. But there's little point in us debating it appears to me. So I say God bless, peace be with you and again maybe someday you'll experience the happy day this song's about. :)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
@atheistdawn you see this is an argument you won't win, you can rant all you want but you have the same misguided notions as say Richard Dawkins. And because you've not experienced God's love you perhaps don't realise this, suffice it to say nice try, but as you can see from my many comments in reply to yours, (think it's 11/12 now) we're coming from different angles, but I know your angle well. So I honestly hope that in time you do meet with God, it is wonderful when you do, (cont 11)
SDWLLB 3 months ago
:)
francisadrianlacson 3 months ago
I dont see why people take Jesus And God For Granted if you dont think he is real hear this My Friends Aunt Prayed to God Day To Day and she had CANCER 1 time she went to a church and someone prayed for her. She fainted and she woke up and said she was cured of Cancer. So dont take Jesus And God for granted. Good Things Can Happen. - Sorry For Spelling Im On The Phone
CodesHD 3 months ago
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Love this song! :)) my church sings it every easter!! idk why but my church's music/band sounds nicer.. hmm.. anyway, this version is awesome too :)
siewhui620 3 months ago
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siewhui620 3 months ago
hahahahahahah..Jesus You are my best friend''!!...''Wooot Woooot''
erubians1 3 months ago
''Jesus You are worthy of all my Praise''!!..
erubians1 3 months ago
HALLELUJAH !!!!! THIS SONG ALWAYS MAKE MY DAY !!!!! OH I LOOOVE YOU JESUS !!!!!
girlofgodforever 3 months ago
JESUS IS ALIVE!!!
DerOsoone 3 months ago 3
i was in the worst mood ever 2 seconds ago, and after this song i CAN'T stop smiling! I LOVE JESUS <333
lildantes63 3 months ago 10
@lildantes63 ahhhhhh Gby I hear you
justuslord100 3 months ago
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lildantes63 3 months ago
Do not argue with ignorance. God is real, he brought me out of drugs and alcohol that I depended on for 15 yrs. I never believed until He saved my life physically, emotionally and spiritually. I used to be just like these people on here cursing God and worse, but, for some reason he o-pened my eyes to the truth, I my life has completely changed for the more abundant life HE promised. praise God!
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jdrumm1313 3 months ago 4
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jdrumm1313 3 months ago
I just got saved... Thanks to this song... In my depression of failure... of what I did to me and those I loved through pride and errogance.... I lost the girl I love and all that she wanted was a strong man... not a man with toys...
This is the happiest day of my life!
And I dont even have her back yet!!!!!!!!! :D
Im forever changed!
graytgray 4 months ago 19
@graytgray God will always be there for you. Don't ever forget that. No matter what you are going through- He will be there to pick you up when you fall. Just trust in Him with all of your heart, and give Him your heart. He loves each and every one of us, and his love is unfailing. Remember that. Jer.29:11, Phil. 4:13
thegabbieb3 3 months ago
HAPPY DAY !
Kurtshard 4 months ago