"There arrived in this land a man whom they called Quetzacoatl... His countenance was white and he wore a beard. His manner of dress consisted of a long white robe... He was considered just, saintly, and good, teaching them by deeds and words the road to virtue... He gave them laws and sane doctrine... He said that in the year that would be called Ce Acatl, He would return and then His doctrine would be accepted, and his children Lords and heirs of the earth."
many of the details spoken about on this video are consistent with experiences from the Po Polvuh. For instance, the conquering among the natives throught intensive warfare.
To the rest of you that claim to be Christian: “Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you” (Ephesians 4:31-32) That said, stop picking fights.
To those who are LDS: “he that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil… Behold, this is not my doctrine, to stir up the hearts of men with anger, one against another; but this is my doctrine, that such things should be done away” (3 Nephi 11:29-30)
"There arrived in this land a man whom they called Quetzacoatl... His countenance was white and he wore a beard. His manner of dress consisted of a long white robe... He was considered just, saintly, and good, teaching them by deeds and words the road to virtue... He gave them laws and sane doctrine... He said that in the year that would be called Ce Acatl, He would return and then His doctrine would be accepted, and his children Lords and heirs of the earth."
After this life on earth all the people will know that God exist, but for some people it will be to late because they had rejected the Gospel here on earth when they became the chance to accept it...
The Church of Jesus Christ of the Ladder day Saints is the only true Church on Earth! I have a personal testimony of this :)
I'm from Europe and i'm a Mormon too. I know that God lives and the Book of Mormon is the word of God. It is testimony of our Saviour Jesus Christ. I have a Testimony of the truth of this Church !
You can stop now. you are wasting time. I know that God lives, and I have used his priesthood power, and you cannot stop it. You will be so sorry that you denied God, and YOU will be very angry. Thank the Lord that atheists only make up about 6% of the US population, and it's such a tragedy, and a shame that Europe is so polluted by atheists like you. Kinda like having a rat infestation.
"Jesus answered them. Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods'! If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
@max10wonderboy wishful thinking. LDS archaeology and anthropology have dedicated, and put forth more time in the region of the Mayan peninsula than any other group. They are rewriting the history books, and science is conforming to what we've been saying all along, because BoM is 100% true.
lol man you brain-washed comma. You dont know anything about anthropology. you believe what yu want to believe. most anthropologist and archelogist proved that the Bom and its history are tottaly fake. Some mormons even left the church because luck of archeological evidence. and Yes i am a good anthropologist with publications. I dont need an idiot like you to judge me. If you need literature review about your fake book I can provide you a long list. We are all blind right
@max10wonderboy The men that speak in the whole video above have yet to recieve any critical letter or email telling them that what they speak is untrue. If they are so "ridiculed" then why haven't any real scholars stood up and said something? offer to debate one? I think this is waste of time. Go back to your PS3
unfortunally, you didnt even realize that i am not an english speaker in the way I write. So I can make typing mistakes. if i need to go to PS3, you need to go to a special school for disabilited pepole. -You seem to know very little about the academic world. they have been conference. Sometimes these pepole are not even considered. they are momons and therefore biased. Next time me and you will have this conversation in Italian. Then I want to see how much you can handle this
@max10wonderboy So the Paleo Block style Hebrew found in ancient burial sites owned by Cherokee have no archaeolgical significance whatsoever??? Found in Ohio, New Mexico, Tennessee, and clear down central america?
The most common Mayan hieroglyphic at Palenque translates "It came to pass" have nothing to offer as evidence to BoM? The parrellels of the BoM and central american culture is uncanny, and think not is sheer folly at this point.
where ever you go in the world, you can find similarities and commonalies of symbols, rituals and architecture. Take the Svastika it was used in Egypt to represent power and light. In Northen India, it symbolized the presence of a Buddhist temple. Therefore it is poor evidence. Dna shows that Natives are descendents of far asians, elephants are known to have gone extinct by 10,000 BC in America. Wheat was introduced by Europens in the new continent..or all this is fake?
language. there is no single hebrew word in the language of all the native americans. Llamas are the only large mammal known to have been domesticated in the Americas. no ships or cows.. Chariots depicted in a Mesopotamian relief circa 2500 B.C vehicles has not been found in the Americas but they exhist in the BOM. Do you want me to continue?
these anthrpologist are a real joke. i am reading even more of what they wrote. They only attempt to fit the BOM on present archeology. they try to reconstruct history with very little evidence. They shouldnt say in this video "there is evidence" " but this may indicate"- i think they would prove to be more professional and less biased.
Attention to all mormons. In case this isnt news to you , you will now know it cuz uv been told. Mayans hate it when u appropriate their history and their archeological sites.They think ur idiots.
@LDS4Life71 Wats the pooint of lying? When we were down in the Yucatan and visiting Chichen Itxa the guide at the site never named a specific group but stated clearly that some people think this is part of their history but that its not, that this is a Mayan archeological site. Sorry about that. Besides ur book of mormon is one great big fat lie. Joseph Smith was a con man & ur a fool for believing a word this man wrote. Sorry about that too. I know thew truth hurts.
@Clichyabarbes22 Uhh no it isn't and yes the truth does hurt. The book of Mormon is 100% authentic part of ancient meso american history. You got nothing.
@silversniper231 Joseph Smith was just a person who found a way to lie to gullible people, coveteous and boastful proud two faced liar.
Christ however went to the cross to saved the human race from God's wrath.
If a man murders children, and God sees him, well it doesnt take much thought to know who God is with respect to murderers. it would be Hell itself to know God being such.
The Law is spiritual, to break it, breaks down our humanity, what Christ did was to solve our humanity.
@LDS4Life71 " I ate you stupid flying spaghetti monster. God lives!" copied and pasted.
Isn't lying against the commandments? hmm? you didn't call me stupid, obviously!!! i just proved it by copying and pasting YOUR own words ^_^ haha silly child.
@LDS4Life71 Ahhh i see, you discard the fact that you lied as unimportant ^_^ how very intelligent.
Who are you calling an atheist ignorant waste of flesh? I'm not sure i understand :D hahaha I'm not an Atheist, so who could you possibly be referring to? Or does it make you feel better to lie? that seems to be a bad habit of yours ^_^ maybe you shouldn't lie? It's bad to lie child ^_^
@silversniper231 The only list, is you aren't listening, and cannot face facts. Again. You don't know what you are talking about. You can't dispute anything so you resort to name calling. LOL bubye now.
@LDS4Life71 Hahahahaha are you a comedian? you must be a comedian,because you're really funny XD i had a good laugh, no sarcasm :D . Who can't face facts? the one who doesn't admit he lied, and who believes in a fairytale religion you! :D it's okay to call you a liar if you are one. A liar is someone who lies, guess what you did up there? you lied XD its right there! it if you want, but you're wrong you did lie and just wont admit it, proof is there.
@LDS4Life71 I'm not going to delete any of this ^_^ its funny that you don't know how to hold your own in an argument, admit you're wrong, or have a discussion like a normal person ^_^ hahaha keep responding, i keep getting little chuckles out of your inability to respond logically, and or intelligently child :D
@LDS4Life71 you are a child in the sense of innocence, you dont know what you are talking about ^_^ i don't know about your everyday life, but it is a fact that you do not apply logic to your religion. otherwise you wouldn't be in that religion ^_^ neither innocence nor faith are bad to have, but they both can be signs of gullibility.
Where did you lie? *sigh* i have to copy and paste again? so be it ^_^ you can scroll up too if you want to, click and drag the bar on the right to see it ^_^
@silversniper231 You got nothing. YOU are the liar. I know that God lives, and he heads his church, and the book of Mormon is the word of and he had revealed to me. The apostacy and restoration of his church is completely biblical. Copy and paste it then, liar.
@LDS4Life71 you know what scroll is right? where you move the little bar on the right up or down? right? because it was right down there. or up there, in your own words. here it is, again
here's where you lied.
"I ate you stupid flying spaghetti monster. God lives!"
next comment you made was
"I just called you stupid. God lives. "
you obviously didn't call me stupid, not at least until the next comment. you deny i when it's right there, just like proof that your church doctrine is a farce.
@LDS4Life71 You can say nothing other than what you "Know" . You were indoctrinated, and are blind and close minded.
You say that, however it is not something you can prove. ever. in any way. You are too close minded to accept that. You would kill for the church if necessary, if told that one of your "prophets" had said it was ordered by God.You are brainwashed to the point of absurdity, the only difference is that your religion has more visible flaws than others.
@silversniper231 You can stop now. you are wasting my time. I know that God lives,and I have used his priesthood power, and you cannot stop it. YOU will be so sorry that you denied God, and you will be very angry. Thank God that atheists only make up about 6% of the US population and its such a shame Europe is so polluted by people like you.
"I ate you stupid flying spaghetti monster. God lives!"
next comment you made was
"I just called you stupid. God lives. "
you obviously didn't call me stupid, not at least until the next comment. you deny i when it's right there, just like proof that your church doctrine is a farce.
@silversniper231 So you think you can back what you say? Are you saying the book isn't from meso america despite all the evidence that FAIR is giving? You obviously lack the knowledge given by their articles that they have documented. The Olmec date back to 2500BCE and perhaps even earlier. The important reason is God commisioned Lehi and the rest of the prophets to testify against them that the practices of human sacrifice was wrong and change their evil ways. The main reason they were sent.
@silversniper231 Luke 13: 28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see ABRAHAM, AND ISAAC, AND JACOB, and "ALL the PROPHETS", IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD, and you yourselves thrust out.
"I ate you stupid flying spaghetti monster. God lives!"
next comment you made was
"I just called you stupid. God lives. "
you obviously didn't call me stupid, not at least until the next comment. you deny i when it's right there, just like proof that your church doctrine is a farce.
@silversniper231 As soon as millions of people start describing the relationship they have with a flying spaghetti monster, we will talk about that monster.
However, that hasn't happened. So why pretend like it is a fair comparison to the relationship that millions feel they have with a personal God?
@silversniper231As a believer, I don't ask non-believers to prove that God isn't real. Likewise, it is foolish for you to ask me to do so with the Flying spaghetti monster.
My point was this: Billions of people who have lived on this Earth have witnessed about a personal God to them. No, that is not proof, but it is something to consider. I have yet to encounter any person who actually believes in or has had an experience with a flying spaghetti monster, so why bring it up?
Millions of people once thought the world was flat, is that true?
I have stated before, most surely not in this video, all i want is the truth. All religions claim to have it, yet none can prove it to me. To any religion that can PROVE to me it is true, i will instantly convert. None have yet to be able to persuade me with logic, all just say "I know" or take it as a personal attack and turn into animals, like LDS up there. I'm glad to see a nice Mormon like you perusing youtube ^_^
@silversniper231 S: "To any religion that can PROVE to me it is true, i will instantly convert."
I don't see that happening. Even if Jesus were to appear in your room this evening personally... you wouldn't have proof. Maybe you dreamed it or maybe someone slipped something into your drink. You may personally believe it at that point, but you wouldn't have "proof".
@Khhaaan1 Of course you don't see that happening. You assume you already know what would happen. You think you know, just like you "know" that your religion is true.
Truth is, if Jesus came up to me and said Mormonism, scientology, Satanism, Muslim, heck even Pastafarianism. I wouldn't doubt it. unlike you my mind is open, ready to accept whatever is truth as soon as it shows itself to me. I am not Atheist, contrary to popular Mormon belief.Atheists do not have proof god is NOT real.
@silversniper231 "Millions of people once thought the world was flat, is that true?"
Well, the world, because of it's very large diameter, is relatively flat while standing on it and observing what most people can see. What people experienced was just a small part of a larger picture.
Religion throughout history may have some similarities to this.
@silversniper231 Some people claimed the Earth was round and others claimed it was flat. It was a matter worth investigating and some people went on to investigate.
Same for religion. Some say it is Islam, others say Judaism, and others Christianity. It is worth investigating. But unlike whether or not the Earth is round, we won't be able to prove it or quantify it. As I mentioned before, if Jesus appeared in your room, you would believe it yourself, but have no proof.
@Khhaaan1 Some people claim he is real and some he is not, it is a matter worth of investigating and people are investigating the answer has yet to be found.
If Jesus appeared in my room, i would have no proof but my own memory. Which i admit could be fooled. However, i would not care. Even if it was a really good trick, id let myself believe it is true. why not? bliss, and happiness, security, I would have all those things religion brings. I wan't to believe, but i cant suspend logic to do so.
Even if i had no proof, i would believe in it. for the simple reason that religion would give bliss, happiness, stability. Even if i kind of wanted to doubt it, i wouldn't. because i finally had a chance to believe, i wouldn't give it up. I want to believe, i just cant suspend logic to do so.
@silversniper231 you would NOT be suspending LOGIC. That's silly. However you would learn the truth that God lives, and he founded a church, and that the founded church would break down and be restored in the last days before the 2nd coming.
You cannot see him. You cannot feel him. You cannot prove he is there.
By logic, God is simply not real.
However i accept it as a possibility that he is. in fact i prefer to believe he is, life is easier that way. However many things in the bible, and the book of Mormon and pearl of great price just dont make sense logically.
@silversniper231 I have used his priesthood power, and I know he lives. Your doubt is harmful, but it doesn't bring any doubt to me or anyone that relies on the Lord for strength.
Interesting ---the last line here said..."The Lamanites out numbered the Nephites" ...but in Joseph storybook the last battle took place where the Nephites out numbered the Lamanites 10 to one. and yet lost on that hill. ( what hill? ) ah yes... did which hill did Joe Smith say it was??
its all just a bunch of fiction folks, dont let them kid you. they are in make believe la la land.
@Rypaul5217 "The Lamanites out numbered the Nephites" ...but in Joseph storybook the last battle took place where the Nephites out numbered the Lamanites"
Those who were termed Lamanites in general would have outnumbered the Nephites, but here you reference just those who participated in the battle.
Don't know where the hill was. The book itself indicates that Moroni traveled for a long time before depositing the plates in the ground.
I Can't keep up with the evolving story. Mormon apologist are now telling me that Lehi arrived to an already thriving populous and the Nephites, who were an isolated small group , safe guarded their language, steel sword making , horses and buildings. The Lamanites however dispersed into Mayan culture and their identity is lost.
Why then is there this desperate mormon attempt to have Mayan culture verify book of mormon Nephites.
@kramd1 "I can't keep up with the evolving story."
Not only do theories evolve, but there are competing theories. You may have some Mormons agreeing with one theory and others arguing for a different theory. That is simply how these things work.
@Khhaaan1 Yes it appears so. Mayan parrallels are Nephite or Lamanite or both ????
The answers seem to be academic, vague, flexible and confusing. I guess that's why one needs God's clarification for in the end no one knows who the surviving Lamanites became. If at all.
@kramd1 "The book of mormon story is lacking in evidence."
I agree with this statement somewhat, but again, there are good archeological and even theological/BoM reasons for this lack of evidence. Also, I am not concerned about evolving or even competing theories. That is as I would expect it to be in a case like this.
There are a few things that do show up in the archeology. For example the uses of cement ... and metal working was more common than previously thought.
I really think Joseph Smith should have served the church by promoting unity rather than inventing stories to start a new one....wait if he was against the current disunity why did he establish another controversial group?
@dzindzichvilli The will of Joseph Smith was the will of God; that the Priesthood and the Church of Jesus Christ be restored to the earth after it's loss in the dark ages. Controversy is unavoidable, especially when your dealing with religion, just look at Christ. He was crucified by those he died for, you can't tell me there wasn't disunity there. I'm saying what I know to be true; Joseph Smith, is a true prophet of God. I encourage anyone who has questions to go to Mormon.org and fairlds.org
@kimthehaskell so if Joe Smith was faking it, how would you know it?
Where is Smith stone box? Still buried in what hill? um well so where is it?
are we all really suppose to be that naive as to believe only in lip service?
Likewise, I find it rather odd dont you? that Smith would dictate his storybook with his own face in his hat, while the so called golden book was never present. (as testified by those who were his scribes, even by Oliver Cowdrey, and David Whitmer and his wife Emma)
@Rypaul5217 "that Smith would dictate his storybook with his own face in his hat, while the so called golden book was never present."
I hope you know that this isn't the whole story. There were eight people and then 3 more who were able to see and touch and turn the pages of the plates that Joseph had. But maybe you didn't know that. Some people only watched the South Park version of the history.
where is the archelogical, historical, linugistic evidence of Smith story??? Hello, this is the 21 st century. Smith didnt know many things that wen know today
@max10wonderboy Smith didn't know much concerning the will of God except for the tidbits that God shared with Smith, and it wasn't very much. God really wanted two things from Smith. That the Book of Mormon translation be completed and that the church of God be restored. everything else is about irrelevant.
why did Smith talked about political, historical facts and event of the pre-colombian tribes if what was really important was just the message??? open up your mind...no men is perfect and even today we have fake prophets..so was Smith at that time..today we have the proof
@max10wonderboy you don't have squat, but assumptions of liars. That isn't proof. I got a brain, and I intend to use it. The bible tells about the restoration of the church of Christ, and we are it. Joseph Smith was a true prophet.
I see how much you use your brain.. Joseph said so, therefore must be true without questioning. To start off, I do not believe in the bible either. it is not precise, it is full of chronological and kinship mistakes. God, for instance should have corrected these mistake before creating a new bible. I am not a lier. I am an anthropologist. Based on the evidence we have today, Smith was just a lier. For how much open-mind I am, his claims are a big fraud.
I see how much brain, you use. Smith said so, so it must be true without questioning. First of all I am an atheist. I do not believe in the bible. However, the bible contains chronological and kinship mistake. Therefore, God should have revised with Smith the first bible, before telling him of a newone. Second, I am not a lier, I am an anthropologist. I believe in DNA, linguistic and archeological evidence. All these proved so far the Smith Book was a big fraud.
@max10wonderboy Good, anthropologist, I am going to see you fail. Because Sorensen, another anthropologist is proving it true. The only fraud here is you, and Tom Murphy.
@kimthehaskell No, I can't do that. I don't believe the mormon apologists are taking seriously the obstacles their validity of their religion is challenged on. If I wanted to make a more serious argument I would first ask you this: What advantage is there in believing the prophet Joseph Smith over the Gospel contained in the NT and OT? ....and yeah I'm actually wanting to know the answer to this
@dzindzichvilli Actually Joseph Smith fulfills the words of the bible. The apostacy and restoration of the church that Christ personally established is completely biblical. Joseph Smith restored the true gospel thru divine revelation, and thru the ordination of the ancient apostle Peter James and John as is documented. What do you want to ask now?
@kramd1 "DNA evidence does not support the book of mormon claim that the american indians are of hebrew decent."
Straw man.
I think what you mean to say is that "DNA evidence does not support the false assumption that Modern American Indians must have mostly Hebrew genetic origins."
That is a statement I can agree with. But since I already explained the difference, it may just be that the concept is a little over your head.
@kramd1 Me: "Maybe you still consider Pluto a planet too."
You: "What is your point?"
You complain that Mormons have changed their point of view, or that different Mormons have different theories.
My point is that misconceptions (like the idea that Pluto is a proper planet) can be reconsidered when more information and evidence becomes available. The new information and reconsidering assumptions doesn't mean that scientists have to reject the entire concept of a solar system.
@Khhaaan1 evidence ? what has Pluto got to do with the sheer lack of evidence for the hebrew refugees described in the book of mormon. ?
DNA evidence is not supportive, no steel, no wheeled chariots or horses or solomon's temple in mayan culture. "new information" there is none. ? unless you have some that you would like to share, your'e left with FAILDS & FARMS ridiculous apologies.
@jaromsmiss But not among the Mayan descendants. Trouble is that the evolving apology still has Mayan culture as still sighted as mainstream mormon model for where Nephites & lamanites existed.
DNA evidence is not supportive of the Mayan model. I guess the Ziggurates are not Nephite or lamanite.
mormons never have denied that migrations could have happened through canada, or from anywhere else. The BOM is a history of a people. Not of everyone who has ever migrated and lived on this continent. also it is ignorant for people to say that DNA studies has discovered that the BOM is false, because people (even those in the BOM) mix and interbreed and DNA can easily be lost during this process. DNA studies is still in an infant stage. its only been around for about 25 years or so.
@jaromsmiss Liar, Mormons have been claiming Mayan culture as evidence of B of M people and american indians since Joseph Smith up until DNA evidence failed to produce the evidence BYU had wished would. More failed evidence added to the list of the missing.
Seems your attempts at evidence boils down to long winded circular apologies that insult intelligence. i.e, a wooden club is the B of M steel sword. & Lamanites and Nephites rode tapirs to battle.
anyways, I have done my research, and what I just stated before, is completely true. so please, dont call me a liar. You are the one who is getting defensive and angry. what I said, is actually facts from people who have done actual research about theses things. No apology, just truth. you said that there is more failed evidence that was added, so what is that? please tell me-------- SMH anti mormonism is its own religon
for all we know when Lehi and his family got to this continent there may have been hundreds of thousands of people already here....people of different DNA could very easily have coexisted and had families.
@kramd1 I never said that I had evidence, so stop. All that I was saying is that the evidence that you claim is not as accurate as you say it is. Please dont put words in my mouth brother. Im not trying to be disrespectful, but If I see somebody say something that is not entirely true I will call them out on it.
@jaromsmiss Book of Mormon states that Lamanites "are the principal ancestors of the American Indians." But today they are left to apologies this bold false statement away.
@kramd1 That was not from the translation, but instead on the title page that was added later. I agree that this is likely a false assumption that all "American Indians" are from the same genetic lines.
It is possible that if you take a random Native American and his great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great,......etc grandpa might have had Hebrew blood. But I would not expect his DNA to be predominantly Hebrew because the other people he descended from likely did not.
@Khhaaan1 nope ...with a gene pool of the numbers of about 2 million? as recent as 431 AD there would be plenty of Hebrew genes and DNA from out of that so called Lamanite race...its just not there when there should be at least something. anything, but not absolutly nothing. Well this is to be expected if Smith blatantly wrote nothing more than a simple novel.
and if there were such "Asians" already over here, how come Joseph's storybook never mentions them?
@Rypaul5217 ".with a gene pool of the numbers of about 2 million? there would be plenty of Hebrew genes and DNA from out of that so called Lamanite race."
You are assuming that the "Lamanite race" had predominantly Hebrew DNA when I am arguing that it didn't. Laman and Lemuel led a small group that left the Nephites and intermingled with the native population, therefore, that population would not have Hebrew DNA. The book follows the Nephites, others were called Lamanites.
@kramd1 its like as if everything that I said goes in one ear out the other. the person who wrote the title page on the BOM was non other than Bruce R.Mcconkie, who said lots of things that were based off his opinion. its not church doctrine that the Mayans were lamanites, it may have been assumptions. Your whole concept doesnt matter. There have obviously been prove that their are american indians with hebrew descent in this land. you pick one little dinky thing and try to make it some big
@Khhaaan1 ok, you don't know, you have faith. fair enough. But the title of the video has the word "evidence" in it's wording.
Why would anyone in their right mind even consider Joseph Smith's 17th century english, hebrew Indians, miss fit, story real.
I implore you to read it again and ask yourself , who are these people ? where is zarahemla ? why no steel swords , horses, elephants. why are ziggurats not mentioned,why are native plants and animals not mentioned.
@kramd1 "why are ziggurats not mentioned,why are native plants and animals not mentioned"
Maybe other civilizations in the Americas were building ziggurats and not Book of Mormon peoples.
What native plants and animals would you like mentioned? Or better yet, what names known to Joseph Smith would you have expected him to use in order to describe such native plants and animals?
@Khhaaan1 post DNA mormon apology has Lehi arriving to an already inhabited "promised land" . Mormon apology is forever evolving whilst evidence remains non existent. FAILDS = the book of mormon people where a small group that mixed with who ? the Mayans and Aztecs ? Mayan ziggurats existed when Lehi & Nephi arrived to a unknown location somewhere on the american continent. PLEASE.
Joseph Smith supposedly translated word for word in english as god gave it to him.
Alma 18: 12 And it came to pass that when Ammon had made ready the horses and the chariots for the king and his servants. "Joseph didn't know what a Tapir was, so he called them horses"
Tapirs are 3 ft high. Mormon apology has the native american riding Tapirs.
@Khhaaan1 your 100% faith based bias find 0% scientific evidence. Science does not suggest that wood is steel , tapirs are horses or american Indians are of hebrew decent.
Wherein you "know" without any evidence. name one piece of real world evidence that is evenly remotely similar to the people talked about in the book of mormon. It does't fit anywhere.
@kramd1 If my faith was based on scientific evidence, then it wouldn't be faith. However, you have given many false assumptions.
"Science does not suggest that wood is steel.." - You ASSUME that all of the "swords" in the Book of Mormon were made out of steel. Not necessarily the case.
"tapirs are horses" - That was one of the many theories ... a theory that I disagree with.
"american Indians are of hebrew decent" -Hebrew DNA likely overwhelmed by Asian DNA - a drop in the bucket
@kramd1 "That is not what DNA evidence is saying."
Wait a second. The Nephites called anybody who were not Nephites as "Lamanites". We can safely assume that the Americas and way more people than those known as the Nephites. Laman and Lemuel intermarried with the surrounding population and the Nephites were destroyed. So why would anybody think there would be sufficient Hebrew DNA to survive the generations and overwhelm the Asian DNA
@Khhaaan1 What surrounding population.? This is a later statement from FAILDS and FARMS. It's the post DNA mormon apology. You guys are not even good at lying.
Like they are now not the "principle" ancestors of the american Indian Wherein now your saying that they are only "among" the american indians ..... Please, your simply moving the argument around to try and make it fit.
It is a false assumption to think that the Americas were entirely uninhabited when Lehi's family arrived.
Yes, it was the Mormons who made this false assumption, but there is no reason why Mormons should continue to hold on to that false assumption.
You would like it if Mormons continued to hold on to the false assumption because it goes against the evidence, however, Mormons have been open minded to the evidence and it makes much more sense.
2 Nephi 8-9 .....I Lehi obtained a promise, .......on this land... and they shall be kept from all other nations, that they may possess this land unto themselves.... and there shall be none to molest them, nor take away the land ..and dwell safely forever
@kramd1 2 Nephi 8-9 "on this land... and they shall be kept from all other nations,"
So, I take it that you are still assuming that "this land" refers to all of north, central and south america. Again, I think this is a false assumption and Mormons do not have to follow your continued false assumptions.
"As for where they were living to be "kept from all other nations" and "dwell safely", as always that depended on their righteousness. Laman and Lemuel fell early for example.
@Khhaaan1 OK, I hear what your saying. Lamanites wiped out the Nephites. Mormons claim every thing Mayan as Nephite ? Zarahemla ( somewhere in mesoamerica ) was Nephite ? If now, as the story evolves, these Nephites built solomon temple , are not reflected in mayan architecture. If they arrived to an already inhabited continent the earlier Ziggurats would have been observed ? who built these Mayans or Nephites. Where are the lamanite descendants now ?
@kramd1 "OK, I hear what your saying. Lamanites wiped out the Nephites."
Exactly, and according to the BoM text it was the Nephites who tended not to intermarry. So again, I wouldn't expect modern native americans to have a big DNA print from Lehi (even if we had a Lehi DNA print to compare with, which we don't).
Also, it is known that civilizations built on top of the cities of previous civilizations. Furthermore, when the Spanish arrived they burned and destroyed "heathen" libraries.
@Khhaaan1 Mormons have grown up with the incorrect idea that the words Lamanites and Native Americans are interchangeable. Today they are saying something different.
@kramd1 "Nothing in America where the Hebrew refuges indians built cities,"
Why not? Cities were built upon cities and civilizations lost were replaced by later civilizations. It would be highly unlikely that the civilizations that followed the Nephites (who were destroyed) would follow the same language, customs and so forth. There is no reason to believe that the Nephite writing system was well known or widespread. The Book of Mormon lands do not cover a large area.
@Khhaaan1 Nephites and lamanites according to the book of mormon covered the whole of the american continent "sea to seas in the millions. I think you need to actually read the book of mormon without the study guide
read it. These people do not fit mesoamerica......farm animals are not a fit , native animals not mentioned. geographically , architecturally and culturally they do not resemble the narrative contained in the Book of Mormon.
@kramd1 "Nephites and lamanites according to the book of mormon covered the whole of the american continent "sea to seas in the millions...you need to read the book of mormon"
Give a chapter and verse, then we'll talk about it. But just think about this, Lehi's arriving group with Hebrew blood was very few. Laman and Lemuel left the group, then years later when the Nephites saw them they were numerous. Wouldn't it be logical to think that the group which had left had intermarried?
@kramd1 Also, when it comes to "DNA evidence", I have some questions for you.
Do we have a sample of Lehi's DNA in order to try and find it within modern Native American groups?
I don't think we do.
I don't even think a study has been done to try and find something SIMILAR to Lehi's DNA in order to try and find remnants in modern Native Americans. Do you know of a scientific study that has been done for this purpose?
@kramd1 "Wherein you "know" without any evidence."
I never claimed to "know". In fact, the Book of Mormon specifically states that God prefers that we live by faith, and not a perfect knowledge (see Alma 32).
"There are a number of references in the primary sources to the expected return of Quetzalcoatl.... These references strongly suggest that the belief in Quetzalcoatl's return was a pre-Columbian attitude and not, as some have suggested, invented by the Spaniards."
-David Carrasco, Quetzalcoatl and the Irony of Empire: Myths and Prophecies in the Aztec Tradition (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1982), 192. See page 192 and the following pages for Carrasco's argument and sources
Viracocha and Ce Atl Quetzalcoatl have huge similariities, and remember there are several figures who are just mortals that were not divine but named after the original one. Such as the one in the 10th century.
The book of mormon........ Where Nephites dressed in Roman metal breastplate armour rode Tapirs dragging Chariots without wheels while fighting cursed dark skinned Lamanites. No wonder they lost.
Quetzalcóatl dates to near a century after Christ birth. ???
"Some post-conquest ( Spanish ) stories clearly rest on Christian embellishment. For example, an account of a language that was no longer understood, akin to the episode of the Tower of Babel, appears in the Popol Vuh of the Quiché Maya, who live in the Guatemalan highlands." Neil A Maxwell Institute.
lol the pictures shown in here of south america, its proven that they aren't related at all to anything in the book of mormon.
mattbrandt69 1 hour ago
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"There arrived in this land a man whom they called Quetzacoatl... His countenance was white and he wore a beard. His manner of dress consisted of a long white robe... He was considered just, saintly, and good, teaching them by deeds and words the road to virtue... He gave them laws and sane doctrine... He said that in the year that would be called Ce Acatl, He would return and then His doctrine would be accepted, and his children Lords and heirs of the earth."
-Ixtlilxochitl, 1600AD
LDS4Life71 1 hour ago
many of the details spoken about on this video are consistent with experiences from the Po Polvuh. For instance, the conquering among the natives throught intensive warfare.
vivavida01 1 day ago
To the rest of you that claim to be Christian: “Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you” (Ephesians 4:31-32) That said, stop picking fights.
LimitBr8ker 6 days ago
To those who are LDS: “he that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil… Behold, this is not my doctrine, to stir up the hearts of men with anger, one against another; but this is my doctrine, that such things should be done away” (3 Nephi 11:29-30)
LimitBr8ker 6 days ago
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LimitBr8ker 6 days ago
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"There arrived in this land a man whom they called Quetzacoatl... His countenance was white and he wore a beard. His manner of dress consisted of a long white robe... He was considered just, saintly, and good, teaching them by deeds and words the road to virtue... He gave them laws and sane doctrine... He said that in the year that would be called Ce Acatl, He would return and then His doctrine would be accepted, and his children Lords and heirs of the earth."
-Ixtlilxochitl, 1600AD
LDS4Life71 6 days ago
not from an objective source, Mormon prpaganda
TheSteeletube 1 week ago
@TheSteeletube U can't disprove anything they're saying. It all makes perfect sense.
LDS4Life71 6 days ago
After this life on earth all the people will know that God exist, but for some people it will be to late because they had rejected the Gospel here on earth when they became the chance to accept it...
The Church of Jesus Christ of the Ladder day Saints is the only true Church on Earth! I have a personal testimony of this :)
GhostriderDuck666 1 week ago
I'm from Europe and i'm a Mormon too. I know that God lives and the Book of Mormon is the word of God. It is testimony of our Saviour Jesus Christ. I have a Testimony of the truth of this Church !
GhostriderDuck666 1 week ago
You can stop now. you are wasting time. I know that God lives, and I have used his priesthood power, and you cannot stop it. You will be so sorry that you denied God, and YOU will be very angry. Thank the Lord that atheists only make up about 6% of the US population, and it's such a tragedy, and a shame that Europe is so polluted by atheists like you. Kinda like having a rat infestation.
FAIRLDS.org
for the truth
or
BMAF.org
or
AMERICANTESTAMENT.blogspotDOT com
LDS4Life71 1 week ago
shit people will believe.
myndwork 1 week ago
why is it they have been wiped out . Why can it not be the people that live "its all relative " their today be the Nephi ?
viol8r007 3 weeks ago
*God
LDS4Life71 3 weeks ago
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John 10:34-36:
"Jesus answered them. Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods'! If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
LDS4Life71 3 weeks ago
These anthropologists should be erased from the album of anthropologists. So small evidence and assumption, so big claims.
max10wonderboy 1 month ago
@max10wonderboy wishful thinking. LDS archaeology and anthropology have dedicated, and put forth more time in the region of the Mayan peninsula than any other group. They are rewriting the history books, and science is conforming to what we've been saying all along, because BoM is 100% true.
LDS4Life71 1 month ago
@LDS4Life71
lol man you brain-washed comma. You dont know anything about anthropology. you believe what yu want to believe. most anthropologist and archelogist proved that the Bom and its history are tottaly fake. Some mormons even left the church because luck of archeological evidence. and Yes i am a good anthropologist with publications. I dont need an idiot like you to judge me. If you need literature review about your fake book I can provide you a long list. We are all blind right
max10wonderboy 1 month ago
@LDS4Life71
These anthropologists you mention are ridiculized.
max10wonderboy 1 month ago
@max10wonderboy The men that speak in the whole video above have yet to recieve any critical letter or email telling them that what they speak is untrue. If they are so "ridiculed" then why haven't any real scholars stood up and said something? offer to debate one? I think this is waste of time. Go back to your PS3
LDS4Life71 1 month ago
@LDS4Life71
unfortunally, you didnt even realize that i am not an english speaker in the way I write. So I can make typing mistakes. if i need to go to PS3, you need to go to a special school for disabilited pepole. -You seem to know very little about the academic world. they have been conference. Sometimes these pepole are not even considered. they are momons and therefore biased. Next time me and you will have this conversation in Italian. Then I want to see how much you can handle this
max10wonderboy 1 month ago
@max10wonderboy oh ok I didn't realize you are Italian which is what I was attributing your grammar to being younger than you are.
LDS4Life71 1 month ago
@LDS4Life71
plus I can write in almost perfect english. I just dont have time to check spelling and grammar mistakes right now.
max10wonderboy 1 month ago
@max10wonderboy So the Paleo Block style Hebrew found in ancient burial sites owned by Cherokee have no archaeolgical significance whatsoever??? Found in Ohio, New Mexico, Tennessee, and clear down central america?
The most common Mayan hieroglyphic at Palenque translates "It came to pass" have nothing to offer as evidence to BoM? The parrellels of the BoM and central american culture is uncanny, and think not is sheer folly at this point.
LDS4Life71 1 month ago
@LDS4Life71
where ever you go in the world, you can find similarities and commonalies of symbols, rituals and architecture. Take the Svastika it was used in Egypt to represent power and light. In Northen India, it symbolized the presence of a Buddhist temple. Therefore it is poor evidence. Dna shows that Natives are descendents of far asians, elephants are known to have gone extinct by 10,000 BC in America. Wheat was introduced by Europens in the new continent..or all this is fake?
max10wonderboy 1 month ago
@LDS4Life71
language. there is no single hebrew word in the language of all the native americans. Llamas are the only large mammal known to have been domesticated in the Americas. no ships or cows.. Chariots depicted in a Mesopotamian relief circa 2500 B.C vehicles has not been found in the Americas but they exhist in the BOM. Do you want me to continue?
max10wonderboy 1 month ago
@LDS4Life71
these anthrpologist are a real joke. i am reading even more of what they wrote. They only attempt to fit the BOM on present archeology. they try to reconstruct history with very little evidence. They shouldnt say in this video "there is evidence" " but this may indicate"- i think they would prove to be more professional and less biased.
max10wonderboy 1 month ago
Attention to all mormons. In case this isnt news to you , you will now know it cuz uv been told. Mayans hate it when u appropriate their history and their archeological sites.They think ur idiots.
Clichyabarbes22 1 month ago
@Clichyabarbes22 You are just lying and do not know what the hell you are talking about.
LDS4Life71 1 month ago
@LDS4Life71 Wats the pooint of lying? When we were down in the Yucatan and visiting Chichen Itxa the guide at the site never named a specific group but stated clearly that some people think this is part of their history but that its not, that this is a Mayan archeological site. Sorry about that. Besides ur book of mormon is one great big fat lie. Joseph Smith was a con man & ur a fool for believing a word this man wrote. Sorry about that too. I know thew truth hurts.
Clichyabarbes22 1 month ago
@Clichyabarbes22 Uhh no it isn't and yes the truth does hurt. The book of Mormon is 100% authentic part of ancient meso american history. You got nothing.
LDS4Life71 4 weeks ago
How could someone believe this?
ALL PRAISE THE FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER!
silversniper231 1 month ago
@silversniper231 Joseph Smith was just a person who found a way to lie to gullible people, coveteous and boastful proud two faced liar.
Christ however went to the cross to saved the human race from God's wrath.
If a man murders children, and God sees him, well it doesnt take much thought to know who God is with respect to murderers. it would be Hell itself to know God being such.
The Law is spiritual, to break it, breaks down our humanity, what Christ did was to solve our humanity.
Rypaul5217 1 month ago
@Rypaul5217 What doe this have to do with the Flying Spaghetti Monster?
silversniper231 1 month ago
@silversniper231 I ate you stupid flying spaghetti monster. God lives!
LDS4Life71 1 month ago
@LDS4Life71 God is the Flying Spaghetti Monster, you just called God stupid. Good luck at the pearly gates child!
silversniper231 1 month ago
@silversniper231 I just called you stupid. God lives.
LDS4Life71 1 month ago
@LDS4Life71 " I ate you stupid flying spaghetti monster. God lives!" copied and pasted.
Isn't lying against the commandments? hmm? you didn't call me stupid, obviously!!! i just proved it by copying and pasting YOUR own words ^_^ haha silly child.
silversniper231 1 month ago
@silversniper231 Anyhow, atheist ignorant waste of flesh. God lives, and I ate your stupid FLYING SPAGETTI MONSTER!:
hahah
LDS4Life71 4 weeks ago
@LDS4Life71 Ahhh i see, you discard the fact that you lied as unimportant ^_^ how very intelligent.
Who are you calling an atheist ignorant waste of flesh? I'm not sure i understand :D hahaha I'm not an Atheist, so who could you possibly be referring to? Or does it make you feel better to lie? that seems to be a bad habit of yours ^_^ maybe you shouldn't lie? It's bad to lie child ^_^
silversniper231 4 weeks ago
@silversniper231 Ummmm? get over yourself, child. ^^
LDS4Life71 3 weeks ago
@LDS4Life71 So lets add to the list you:
are a liar
Don't know what you're talking about
cant confront the truth
close minded
and bad at physics ^_^ it's physically impossible to get over ones self.
oh and you cant make that happy face either ^_^ yours had no mouth child :D
silversniper231 3 weeks ago
@silversniper231 The only list, is you aren't listening, and cannot face facts. Again. You don't know what you are talking about. You can't dispute anything so you resort to name calling. LOL bubye now.
LDS4Life71 3 weeks ago
@LDS4Life71 Hahahahaha are you a comedian? you must be a comedian,because you're really funny XD i had a good laugh, no sarcasm :D . Who can't face facts? the one who doesn't admit he lied, and who believes in a fairytale religion you! :D it's okay to call you a liar if you are one. A liar is someone who lies, guess what you did up there? you lied XD its right there! it if you want, but you're wrong you did lie and just wont admit it, proof is there.
PS:You cant listen over text, child ^_^
silversniper231 3 weeks ago
@silversniper231 delete it* ^_^
silversniper231 3 weeks ago
@silversniper231 delete this t(-_-t)
LDS4Life71 3 weeks ago
@LDS4Life71 I'm not going to delete any of this ^_^ its funny that you don't know how to hold your own in an argument, admit you're wrong, or have a discussion like a normal person ^_^ hahaha keep responding, i keep getting little chuckles out of your inability to respond logically, and or intelligently child :D
what happened to bubye? XD
silversniper231 3 weeks ago
@silversniper231 I never lied. Where did I lie? I'm not a liar nor a child. So you resort to name calling.
the church that Jesus Christ founded fell away into apostacy and the restoration of His church is completely biblical.
Get over yourself.
LDS4Life71 3 weeks ago
@LDS4Life71 you are a child in the sense of innocence, you dont know what you are talking about ^_^ i don't know about your everyday life, but it is a fact that you do not apply logic to your religion. otherwise you wouldn't be in that religion ^_^ neither innocence nor faith are bad to have, but they both can be signs of gullibility.
Where did you lie? *sigh* i have to copy and paste again? so be it ^_^ you can scroll up too if you want to, click and drag the bar on the right to see it ^_^
silversniper231 3 weeks ago
@silversniper231 You got nothing. YOU are the liar. I know that God lives, and he heads his church, and the book of Mormon is the word of and he had revealed to me. The apostacy and restoration of his church is completely biblical. Copy and paste it then, liar.
LDS4Life71 3 weeks ago
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@LDS4Life71 you know what scroll is right? where you move the little bar on the right up or down? right? because it was right down there. or up there, in your own words. here it is, again
here's where you lied.
"I ate you stupid flying spaghetti monster. God lives!"
next comment you made was
"I just called you stupid. God lives. "
you obviously didn't call me stupid, not at least until the next comment. you deny i when it's right there, just like proof that your church doctrine is a farce.
silversniper231 3 weeks ago
@silversniper231 Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God, and the restored Church is true.
LDS4Life71 3 weeks ago
@LDS4Life71 You can say nothing other than what you "Know" . You were indoctrinated, and are blind and close minded.
You say that, however it is not something you can prove. ever. in any way. You are too close minded to accept that. You would kill for the church if necessary, if told that one of your "prophets" had said it was ordered by God.You are brainwashed to the point of absurdity, the only difference is that your religion has more visible flaws than others.
silversniper231 3 weeks ago
@silversniper231 I know you are a know nothing. You are a fool. Joseph Smith was a true prophet and the book of Mormon is a true translation.
LDS4Life71 2 weeks ago
@LDS4Life71 I know, I know, I know. of course you know.
but to Prove it. you cant.
silversniper231 2 weeks ago
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@silversniper231 The Holy Ghost confirms the truth.
bmaf.org
for the evidence.
LDS4Life71 2 weeks ago
@LDS4Life71 Prove it to me? I'd be an instant convert.
silversniper231 4 days ago
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@silversniper231 You can stop now. you are wasting my time. I know that God lives,and I have used his priesthood power, and you cannot stop it. YOU will be so sorry that you denied God, and you will be very angry. Thank God that atheists only make up about 6% of the US population and its such a shame Europe is so polluted by people like you.
LDS4Life71 2 weeks ago
@LDS4Life71 Oh and hahahah im not even an Atheist. And i don't live in Europe.
Nice try at those insults though ^_^ may i suggest restraint? anger isn't good for anyone
silversniper231 4 days ago
@silversniper231 Still waiting for you to cut and paste the "lies."
Because you are the liar.
LDS4Life71 2 weeks ago
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@LDS4Life71 for the third time
here's where you lied.
"I ate you stupid flying spaghetti monster. God lives!"
next comment you made was
"I just called you stupid. God lives. "
you obviously didn't call me stupid, not at least until the next comment. you deny i when it's right there, just like proof that your church doctrine is a farce.
silversniper231 2 weeks ago
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@silversniper231 So you think you can back what you say? Are you saying the book isn't from meso america despite all the evidence that FAIR is giving? You obviously lack the knowledge given by their articles that they have documented. The Olmec date back to 2500BCE and perhaps even earlier. The important reason is God commisioned Lehi and the rest of the prophets to testify against them that the practices of human sacrifice was wrong and change their evil ways. The main reason they were sent.
LDS4Life71 2 weeks ago
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@silversniper231 Luke 13: 28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see ABRAHAM, AND ISAAC, AND JACOB, and "ALL the PROPHETS", IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD, and you yourselves thrust out.
LDS4Life71 2 weeks ago
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@LDS4Life71 here's where you lied.
"I ate you stupid flying spaghetti monster. God lives!"
next comment you made was
"I just called you stupid. God lives. "
you obviously didn't call me stupid, not at least until the next comment. you deny i when it's right there, just like proof that your church doctrine is a farce.
silversniper231 3 weeks ago
@silversniper231 As soon as millions of people start describing the relationship they have with a flying spaghetti monster, we will talk about that monster.
However, that hasn't happened. So why pretend like it is a fair comparison to the relationship that millions feel they have with a personal God?
Khhaaan1 6 days ago
@Khhaaan1 As soon as you provide physical evidence that the FMS isn't true, but God is i will oblige you ;)
silversniper231 5 days ago
@silversniper231As a believer, I don't ask non-believers to prove that God isn't real. Likewise, it is foolish for you to ask me to do so with the Flying spaghetti monster.
My point was this: Billions of people who have lived on this Earth have witnessed about a personal God to them. No, that is not proof, but it is something to consider. I have yet to encounter any person who actually believes in or has had an experience with a flying spaghetti monster, so why bring it up?
Khhaaan1 5 days ago
@Khhaaan1
Millions of people once thought the world was flat, is that true?
I have stated before, most surely not in this video, all i want is the truth. All religions claim to have it, yet none can prove it to me. To any religion that can PROVE to me it is true, i will instantly convert. None have yet to be able to persuade me with logic, all just say "I know" or take it as a personal attack and turn into animals, like LDS up there. I'm glad to see a nice Mormon like you perusing youtube ^_^
silversniper231 4 days ago
@silversniper231 S: "To any religion that can PROVE to me it is true, i will instantly convert."
I don't see that happening. Even if Jesus were to appear in your room this evening personally... you wouldn't have proof. Maybe you dreamed it or maybe someone slipped something into your drink. You may personally believe it at that point, but you wouldn't have "proof".
Khhaaan1 4 days ago
@Khhaaan1 Of course you don't see that happening. You assume you already know what would happen. You think you know, just like you "know" that your religion is true.
Truth is, if Jesus came up to me and said Mormonism, scientology, Satanism, Muslim, heck even Pastafarianism. I wouldn't doubt it. unlike you my mind is open, ready to accept whatever is truth as soon as it shows itself to me. I am not Atheist, contrary to popular Mormon belief.Atheists do not have proof god is NOT real.
silversniper231 3 days ago
@silversniper231 You mignt not doubt it, but you still wouldn't have "proof".
My point was that nobody is going to "prove" a religion to anybody else.
Khhaaan1 3 days ago
@silversniper231 "Millions of people once thought the world was flat, is that true?"
Well, the world, because of it's very large diameter, is relatively flat while standing on it and observing what most people can see. What people experienced was just a small part of a larger picture.
Religion throughout history may have some similarities to this.
Khhaaan1 3 days ago
@Khhaaan1 My point is that millions of people believed it, yet it was NOT true. Therefore the same could be true for religion.
silversniper231 3 days ago
@silversniper231 Some people claimed the Earth was round and others claimed it was flat. It was a matter worth investigating and some people went on to investigate.
Same for religion. Some say it is Islam, others say Judaism, and others Christianity. It is worth investigating. But unlike whether or not the Earth is round, we won't be able to prove it or quantify it. As I mentioned before, if Jesus appeared in your room, you would believe it yourself, but have no proof.
Khhaaan1 3 days ago
@Khhaaan1 Some people claim he is real and some he is not, it is a matter worth of investigating and people are investigating the answer has yet to be found.
If Jesus appeared in my room, i would have no proof but my own memory. Which i admit could be fooled. However, i would not care. Even if it was a really good trick, id let myself believe it is true. why not? bliss, and happiness, security, I would have all those things religion brings. I wan't to believe, but i cant suspend logic to do so.
silversniper231 3 days ago
@silversniper231
Even if i had no proof, i would believe in it. for the simple reason that religion would give bliss, happiness, stability. Even if i kind of wanted to doubt it, i wouldn't. because i finally had a chance to believe, i wouldn't give it up. I want to believe, i just cant suspend logic to do so.
silversniper231 3 days ago
@silversniper231 you would NOT be suspending LOGIC. That's silly. However you would learn the truth that God lives, and he founded a church, and that the founded church would break down and be restored in the last days before the 2nd coming.
LDS4Life71 2 days ago
@LDS4Life71 Yes i would. It's simple.
You cannot see him. You cannot feel him. You cannot prove he is there.
By logic, God is simply not real.
However i accept it as a possibility that he is. in fact i prefer to believe he is, life is easier that way. However many things in the bible, and the book of Mormon and pearl of great price just dont make sense logically.
silversniper231 1 day ago
@LDS4Life71 I thought you were done wasting you're time with me though? No offense meant. I simply don't understand you very well.
silversniper231 1 day ago
@silversniper231 I have used his priesthood power, and I know he lives. Your doubt is harmful, but it doesn't bring any doubt to me or anyone that relies on the Lord for strength.
LDS4Life71 1 day ago
It's sad to listen to so called scholars endorse a fairy tale and grasp at straws in an effort to make truth out of bullshit!!!
bigpecker251 1 month ago
Interesting ---the last line here said..."The Lamanites out numbered the Nephites" ...but in Joseph storybook the last battle took place where the Nephites out numbered the Lamanites 10 to one. and yet lost on that hill. ( what hill? ) ah yes... did which hill did Joe Smith say it was??
its all just a bunch of fiction folks, dont let them kid you. they are in make believe la la land.
Rypaul5217 1 month ago
@Rypaul5217 "The Lamanites out numbered the Nephites" ...but in Joseph storybook the last battle took place where the Nephites out numbered the Lamanites"
Those who were termed Lamanites in general would have outnumbered the Nephites, but here you reference just those who participated in the battle.
Don't know where the hill was. The book itself indicates that Moroni traveled for a long time before depositing the plates in the ground.
Khhaaan1 6 days ago
@kramd1
Mad? well you were
belief in fiction is wrong....thankfully I only believe in things that are true
jaromsmiss 1 month ago
I Can't keep up with the evolving story. Mormon apologist are now telling me that Lehi arrived to an already thriving populous and the Nephites, who were an isolated small group , safe guarded their language, steel sword making , horses and buildings. The Lamanites however dispersed into Mayan culture and their identity is lost.
Why then is there this desperate mormon attempt to have Mayan culture verify book of mormon Nephites.
Were Mayans Nephite or lamanite ?
kramd1 1 month ago
@kramd1 "I can't keep up with the evolving story."
Not only do theories evolve, but there are competing theories. You may have some Mormons agreeing with one theory and others arguing for a different theory. That is simply how these things work.
Khhaaan1 1 month ago
@Khhaaan1 Yes it appears so. Mayan parrallels are Nephite or Lamanite or both ????
The answers seem to be academic, vague, flexible and confusing. I guess that's why one needs God's clarification for in the end no one knows who the surviving Lamanites became. If at all.
The book of mormon story is lacking in evidence.
kramd1 1 month ago
@kramd1 "The book of mormon story is lacking in evidence."
I agree with this statement somewhat, but again, there are good archeological and even theological/BoM reasons for this lack of evidence. Also, I am not concerned about evolving or even competing theories. That is as I would expect it to be in a case like this.
There are a few things that do show up in the archeology. For example the uses of cement ... and metal working was more common than previously thought.
Khhaaan1 1 month ago
@Khhaaan1 Your easily convinced.
kramd1 1 month ago
@kramd1
And you are a typical sign seeker....
You-show me show me...
Me-ok here you go.
You-ok... but what aobut his...
it goes on and one... you jump to the next thing and then claim the first sign you wanted does not prove anything.
Sk8er408 1 month ago
@kramd1
Stop arguing! It is annoying.
TheRealHawkeye 1 month ago
Comment removed
kramd1 1 month ago
I really think Joseph Smith should have served the church by promoting unity rather than inventing stories to start a new one....wait if he was against the current disunity why did he establish another controversial group?
dzindzichvilli 1 month ago 5
@dzindzichvilli The will of Joseph Smith was the will of God; that the Priesthood and the Church of Jesus Christ be restored to the earth after it's loss in the dark ages. Controversy is unavoidable, especially when your dealing with religion, just look at Christ. He was crucified by those he died for, you can't tell me there wasn't disunity there. I'm saying what I know to be true; Joseph Smith, is a true prophet of God. I encourage anyone who has questions to go to Mormon.org and fairlds.org
kimthehaskell 1 month ago 2
@kimthehaskell so if Joe Smith was faking it, how would you know it?
Where is Smith stone box? Still buried in what hill? um well so where is it?
are we all really suppose to be that naive as to believe only in lip service?
Likewise, I find it rather odd dont you? that Smith would dictate his storybook with his own face in his hat, while the so called golden book was never present. (as testified by those who were his scribes, even by Oliver Cowdrey, and David Whitmer and his wife Emma)
Rypaul5217 1 month ago
@Rypaul5217 "that Smith would dictate his storybook with his own face in his hat, while the so called golden book was never present."
I hope you know that this isn't the whole story. There were eight people and then 3 more who were able to see and touch and turn the pages of the plates that Joseph had. But maybe you didn't know that. Some people only watched the South Park version of the history.
Khhaaan1 6 days ago
@kimthehaskell
where is the archelogical, historical, linugistic evidence of Smith story??? Hello, this is the 21 st century. Smith didnt know many things that wen know today
max10wonderboy 1 month ago
@max10wonderboy Smith didn't know much concerning the will of God except for the tidbits that God shared with Smith, and it wasn't very much. God really wanted two things from Smith. That the Book of Mormon translation be completed and that the church of God be restored. everything else is about irrelevant.
LDS4Life71 1 month ago
@LDS4Life71
what is irrelevant? got brain over there?
why did Smith talked about political, historical facts and event of the pre-colombian tribes if what was really important was just the message??? open up your mind...no men is perfect and even today we have fake prophets..so was Smith at that time..today we have the proof
max10wonderboy 1 month ago
@max10wonderboy you don't have squat, but assumptions of liars. That isn't proof. I got a brain, and I intend to use it. The bible tells about the restoration of the church of Christ, and we are it. Joseph Smith was a true prophet.
LDS4Life71 1 month ago
@LDS4Life71
I see how much you use your brain.. Joseph said so, therefore must be true without questioning. To start off, I do not believe in the bible either. it is not precise, it is full of chronological and kinship mistakes. God, for instance should have corrected these mistake before creating a new bible. I am not a lier. I am an anthropologist. Based on the evidence we have today, Smith was just a lier. For how much open-mind I am, his claims are a big fraud.
max10wonderboy 1 month ago
@LDS4Life71
I see how much brain, you use. Smith said so, so it must be true without questioning. First of all I am an atheist. I do not believe in the bible. However, the bible contains chronological and kinship mistake. Therefore, God should have revised with Smith the first bible, before telling him of a newone. Second, I am not a lier, I am an anthropologist. I believe in DNA, linguistic and archeological evidence. All these proved so far the Smith Book was a big fraud.
max10wonderboy 1 month ago
@max10wonderboy Good, anthropologist, I am going to see you fail. Because Sorensen, another anthropologist is proving it true. The only fraud here is you, and Tom Murphy.
LDS4Life71 1 month ago
@kimthehaskell No, I can't do that. I don't believe the mormon apologists are taking seriously the obstacles their validity of their religion is challenged on. If I wanted to make a more serious argument I would first ask you this: What advantage is there in believing the prophet Joseph Smith over the Gospel contained in the NT and OT? ....and yeah I'm actually wanting to know the answer to this
dzindzichvilli 4 weeks ago
@dzindzichvilli Actually Joseph Smith fulfills the words of the bible. The apostacy and restoration of the church that Christ personally established is completely biblical. Joseph Smith restored the true gospel thru divine revelation, and thru the ordination of the ancient apostle Peter James and John as is documented. What do you want to ask now?
LDS4Life71 3 weeks ago
DNA evidence does not support the book of mormon claim that the american indians are of hebrew decent.
kramd1 1 month ago
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@kramd1 "DNA evidence does not support the book of mormon claim that the american indians are of hebrew decent."
Straw man.
I think what you mean to say is that "DNA evidence does not support the false assumption that Modern American Indians must have mostly Hebrew genetic origins."
That is a statement I can agree with. But since I already explained the difference, it may just be that the concept is a little over your head.
Khhaaan1 1 month ago
@Khhaaan1 NO. DNA evidence does not support the Book of Mormons claim that the native American Indian is of Hebrew descent ( full stop )
kramd1 1 month ago
@kramd1
Like I said ... Apparently my point is way over your head. That, or you simply refuse to see any other point of view.
Maybe you still consider Pluto a planet too.
Khhaaan1 1 month ago
@Khhaaan1 Or Quakers live on the moon and God live on Kolob.
Khhaaan. Stop wanting it to be right start wanting the truth. You're totally bereft of evidence. What is your point ?
kramd1 1 month ago
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@kramd1 Me: "Maybe you still consider Pluto a planet too."
You: "What is your point?"
You complain that Mormons have changed their point of view, or that different Mormons have different theories.
My point is that misconceptions (like the idea that Pluto is a proper planet) can be reconsidered when more information and evidence becomes available. The new information and reconsidering assumptions doesn't mean that scientists have to reject the entire concept of a solar system.
Khhaaan1 1 month ago
@Khhaaan1 evidence ? what has Pluto got to do with the sheer lack of evidence for the hebrew refugees described in the book of mormon. ?
DNA evidence is not supportive, no steel, no wheeled chariots or horses or solomon's temple in mayan culture. "new information" there is none. ? unless you have some that you would like to share, your'e left with FAILDS & FARMS ridiculous apologies.
kramd1 1 month ago
@kramd1 actually recently they have found hebrew dna in the native americans around the great lakes. so technically, your wrong.
jaromsmiss 1 month ago
@jaromsmiss But not among the Mayan descendants. Trouble is that the evolving apology still has Mayan culture as still sighted as mainstream mormon model for where Nephites & lamanites existed.
DNA evidence is not supportive of the Mayan model. I guess the Ziggurates are not Nephite or lamanite.
kramd1 1 month ago
@kramd1
mormons never have denied that migrations could have happened through canada, or from anywhere else. The BOM is a history of a people. Not of everyone who has ever migrated and lived on this continent. also it is ignorant for people to say that DNA studies has discovered that the BOM is false, because people (even those in the BOM) mix and interbreed and DNA can easily be lost during this process. DNA studies is still in an infant stage. its only been around for about 25 years or so.
jaromsmiss 1 month ago
@jaromsmiss Liar, Mormons have been claiming Mayan culture as evidence of B of M people and american indians since Joseph Smith up until DNA evidence failed to produce the evidence BYU had wished would. More failed evidence added to the list of the missing.
Seems your attempts at evidence boils down to long winded circular apologies that insult intelligence. i.e, a wooden club is the B of M steel sword. & Lamanites and Nephites rode tapirs to battle.
kramd1 1 month ago
@kramd1
first off, i must ask...U MAD? lol
anyways, I have done my research, and what I just stated before, is completely true. so please, dont call me a liar. You are the one who is getting defensive and angry. what I said, is actually facts from people who have done actual research about theses things. No apology, just truth. you said that there is more failed evidence that was added, so what is that? please tell me-------- SMH anti mormonism is its own religon
jaromsmiss 1 month ago
@jaromsmiss MAD ? Now the's what I wouldn't call anyone . However a sane and intelligent person would consider belief in fiction somewhat crazy.
kramd1 1 month ago
@kramd1
for all we know when Lehi and his family got to this continent there may have been hundreds of thousands of people already here....people of different DNA could very easily have coexisted and had families.
jaromsmiss 1 month ago
@jaromsmiss Your statement is not evidence just more of the same mormon apology for missing evidence.
The title of this video has the word "evidence" what your saying is that DNA evidence is missing . That is not evidence.
kramd1 1 month ago
@kramd1 I never said that I had evidence, so stop. All that I was saying is that the evidence that you claim is not as accurate as you say it is. Please dont put words in my mouth brother. Im not trying to be disrespectful, but If I see somebody say something that is not entirely true I will call them out on it.
jaromsmiss 1 month ago
@jaromsmiss Book of Mormon states that Lamanites "are the principal ancestors of the American Indians." But today they are left to apologies this bold false statement away.
kramd1 1 month ago
@kramd1 That was not from the translation, but instead on the title page that was added later. I agree that this is likely a false assumption that all "American Indians" are from the same genetic lines.
It is possible that if you take a random Native American and his great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great,......etc grandpa might have had Hebrew blood. But I would not expect his DNA to be predominantly Hebrew because the other people he descended from likely did not.
Khhaaan1 1 month ago
@Khhaaan1 nope ...with a gene pool of the numbers of about 2 million? as recent as 431 AD there would be plenty of Hebrew genes and DNA from out of that so called Lamanite race...its just not there when there should be at least something. anything, but not absolutly nothing. Well this is to be expected if Smith blatantly wrote nothing more than a simple novel.
and if there were such "Asians" already over here, how come Joseph's storybook never mentions them?
Rypaul5217 1 month ago
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@Rypaul5217 ".with a gene pool of the numbers of about 2 million? there would be plenty of Hebrew genes and DNA from out of that so called Lamanite race."
You are assuming that the "Lamanite race" had predominantly Hebrew DNA when I am arguing that it didn't. Laman and Lemuel led a small group that left the Nephites and intermingled with the native population, therefore, that population would not have Hebrew DNA. The book follows the Nephites, others were called Lamanites.
Khhaaan1 6 days ago
@kramd1 its like as if everything that I said goes in one ear out the other. the person who wrote the title page on the BOM was non other than Bruce R.Mcconkie, who said lots of things that were based off his opinion. its not church doctrine that the Mayans were lamanites, it may have been assumptions. Your whole concept doesnt matter. There have obviously been prove that their are american indians with hebrew descent in this land. you pick one little dinky thing and try to make it some big
jaromsmiss 1 month ago
@kramd1 make sure your up to date on your anti... anti mormonism is its own religon lol
jaromsmiss 1 month ago
@Khhaaan1 ok, you don't know, you have faith. fair enough. But the title of the video has the word "evidence" in it's wording.
Why would anyone in their right mind even consider Joseph Smith's 17th century english, hebrew Indians, miss fit, story real.
I implore you to read it again and ask yourself , who are these people ? where is zarahemla ? why no steel swords , horses, elephants. why are ziggurats not mentioned,why are native plants and animals not mentioned.
kramd1 1 month ago
@kramd1 "why are ziggurats not mentioned,why are native plants and animals not mentioned"
Maybe other civilizations in the Americas were building ziggurats and not Book of Mormon peoples.
What native plants and animals would you like mentioned? Or better yet, what names known to Joseph Smith would you have expected him to use in order to describe such native plants and animals?
Khhaaan1 1 month ago
@Khhaaan1 post DNA mormon apology has Lehi arriving to an already inhabited "promised land" . Mormon apology is forever evolving whilst evidence remains non existent. FAILDS = the book of mormon people where a small group that mixed with who ? the Mayans and Aztecs ? Mayan ziggurats existed when Lehi & Nephi arrived to a unknown location somewhere on the american continent. PLEASE.
Joseph Smith supposedly translated word for word in english as god gave it to him.
kramd1 1 month ago
@kramd1 Kramd: "Mayan ziggurats existed when Lehi & Nephi arrived to a unknown location somewhere on the american continent."
I don't understand your complaint here. Who cares if ziggurats had been built by other civilizations in the Americas? Please explain.
Kramd: FAILDS = the book of mormon people where a small group that mixed with who ?
Well, the Book of Mormon does describe a small group. And science says there were already people on the American continent. So?
Khhaaan1 1 month ago
Alma 18: 12 And it came to pass that when Ammon had made ready the horses and the chariots for the king and his servants. "Joseph didn't know what a Tapir was, so he called them horses"
Tapirs are 3 ft high. Mormon apology has the native american riding Tapirs.
Unbelievable horse poo.
kramd1 1 month ago
@kramd1 No. I don't think that the horses were tapirs. I think they were probably horses.
I was just saying that if there was a term that was unknown to Joseph at the time of translation, I don't think he could use that term.
Khhaaan1 1 month ago
@Khhaaan1 you think ? Mormon apology is very flexible.
So what is it. there were horses or Tapirs ?
kramd1 1 month ago
@kramd1 Any kind of apology is flexible when it comes to history theory. This is true for scientific theory as well.
There are competing theories and when new evidences come out those theories change.
Were they horses or some other kind of animal that Joseph didn't have a term for? Nobody knows, hence the theories.
Khhaaan1 1 month ago
@Khhaaan1 your 100% faith based bias find 0% scientific evidence. Science does not suggest that wood is steel , tapirs are horses or american Indians are of hebrew decent.
Wherein you "know" without any evidence. name one piece of real world evidence that is evenly remotely similar to the people talked about in the book of mormon. It does't fit anywhere.
kramd1 1 month ago
@kramd1 If my faith was based on scientific evidence, then it wouldn't be faith. However, you have given many false assumptions.
"Science does not suggest that wood is steel.." - You ASSUME that all of the "swords" in the Book of Mormon were made out of steel. Not necessarily the case.
"tapirs are horses" - That was one of the many theories ... a theory that I disagree with.
"american Indians are of hebrew decent" -Hebrew DNA likely overwhelmed by Asian DNA - a drop in the bucket
Khhaaan1 1 month ago
@Khhaaan1 Likely, You think ? That is not what DNA evidence is saying. Clearly It's what you want it to be. Evidence ?
whats the number 1 geographical evidence sighted by mormons.
A, The Arabian peninsular NHM sounds like Nahom & bountiful.
That's it. Nothing in America where the Hebrew refuges indians built cities, solomons temple, and inhabited the entire continent for a thousand years.
kramd1 1 month ago
@kramd1 "That is not what DNA evidence is saying."
Wait a second. The Nephites called anybody who were not Nephites as "Lamanites". We can safely assume that the Americas and way more people than those known as the Nephites. Laman and Lemuel intermarried with the surrounding population and the Nephites were destroyed. So why would anybody think there would be sufficient Hebrew DNA to survive the generations and overwhelm the Asian DNA
Khhaaan1 1 month ago
@Khhaaan1 What surrounding population.? This is a later statement from FAILDS and FARMS. It's the post DNA mormon apology. You guys are not even good at lying.
Like they are now not the "principle" ancestors of the american Indian Wherein now your saying that they are only "among" the american indians ..... Please, your simply moving the argument around to try and make it fit.
kramd1 1 month ago
@kramd1 "What surrounding population?"
It is a false assumption to think that the Americas were entirely uninhabited when Lehi's family arrived.
Yes, it was the Mormons who made this false assumption, but there is no reason why Mormons should continue to hold on to that false assumption.
You would like it if Mormons continued to hold on to the false assumption because it goes against the evidence, however, Mormons have been open minded to the evidence and it makes much more sense.
Khhaaan1 1 month ago
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2 Nephi 8-9 .....I Lehi obtained a promise, .......on this land... and they shall be kept from all other nations, that they may possess this land unto themselves.... and there shall be none to molest them, nor take away the land ..and dwell safely forever
kramd1 1 month ago
@kramd1 2 Nephi 8-9 "on this land... and they shall be kept from all other nations,"
So, I take it that you are still assuming that "this land" refers to all of north, central and south america. Again, I think this is a false assumption and Mormons do not have to follow your continued false assumptions.
"As for where they were living to be "kept from all other nations" and "dwell safely", as always that depended on their righteousness. Laman and Lemuel fell early for example.
Khhaaan1 1 month ago
@Khhaaan1 OK, I hear what your saying. Lamanites wiped out the Nephites. Mormons claim every thing Mayan as Nephite ? Zarahemla ( somewhere in mesoamerica ) was Nephite ? If now, as the story evolves, these Nephites built solomon temple , are not reflected in mayan architecture. If they arrived to an already inhabited continent the earlier Ziggurats would have been observed ? who built these Mayans or Nephites. Where are the lamanite descendants now ?
kramd1 1 month ago
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@kramd1 "OK, I hear what your saying. Lamanites wiped out the Nephites."
Exactly, and according to the BoM text it was the Nephites who tended not to intermarry. So again, I wouldn't expect modern native americans to have a big DNA print from Lehi (even if we had a Lehi DNA print to compare with, which we don't).
Also, it is known that civilizations built on top of the cities of previous civilizations. Furthermore, when the Spanish arrived they burned and destroyed "heathen" libraries.
Khhaaan1 1 month ago
@Khhaaan1 Mormons have grown up with the incorrect idea that the words Lamanites and Native Americans are interchangeable. Today they are saying something different.
kramd1 1 month ago
@kramd1
Deal that means the entire church is false when scientists have attacked your claimed and have found oppostion to your claims. smh
jaromsmiss 1 month ago
@jaromsmiss The entire church is false.
kramd1 1 month ago
@kramd1
lets just agree to disagree. have a great christmas brother.
jaromsmiss 1 month ago
@jaromsmiss agreed. I'm not christian. Have a happy holiday.
kramd1 1 month ago
@kramd1
sorry about that! Happy holidays to you too!
jaromsmiss 1 month ago
@kramd1 "Nothing in America where the Hebrew refuges indians built cities,"
Why not? Cities were built upon cities and civilizations lost were replaced by later civilizations. It would be highly unlikely that the civilizations that followed the Nephites (who were destroyed) would follow the same language, customs and so forth. There is no reason to believe that the Nephite writing system was well known or widespread. The Book of Mormon lands do not cover a large area.
Khhaaan1 1 month ago
@Khhaaan1 Nephites and lamanites according to the book of mormon covered the whole of the american continent "sea to seas in the millions. I think you need to actually read the book of mormon without the study guide
read it. These people do not fit mesoamerica......farm animals are not a fit , native animals not mentioned. geographically , architecturally and culturally they do not resemble the narrative contained in the Book of Mormon.
kramd1 1 month ago
@kramd1 "Nephites and lamanites according to the book of mormon covered the whole of the american continent "sea to seas in the millions...you need to read the book of mormon"
Give a chapter and verse, then we'll talk about it. But just think about this, Lehi's arriving group with Hebrew blood was very few. Laman and Lemuel left the group, then years later when the Nephites saw them they were numerous. Wouldn't it be logical to think that the group which had left had intermarried?
Khhaaan1 1 month ago
@kramd1 Also, when it comes to "DNA evidence", I have some questions for you.
Do we have a sample of Lehi's DNA in order to try and find it within modern Native American groups?
I don't think we do.
I don't even think a study has been done to try and find something SIMILAR to Lehi's DNA in order to try and find remnants in modern Native Americans. Do you know of a scientific study that has been done for this purpose?
Khhaaan1 1 month ago
@Khhaaan1 DNA evidence does not support the book of mormon claim of Hebrew Indians.
It's no surprise that zero evidence is the hall mark of the book of mormon. .
kramd1 1 month ago
@kramd1 "whats the number 1 geographical evidence sighted by mormons.
A, The Arabian peninsular NHM"
That is because Old World archeology is much more extensive than New World, for several reasons.
Khhaaan1 1 month ago
@kramd1 "Wherein you "know" without any evidence."
I never claimed to "know". In fact, the Book of Mormon specifically states that God prefers that we live by faith, and not a perfect knowledge (see Alma 32).
Khhaaan1 1 month ago
The part mormons leave out in the great Mormon Jesus/ Quetzalcoatl ,one in the same claim.
Quote:
"Quetzalcoatl .. from Teotihuacan's empire A.D. 250 to Aztec empire AD 1521"
David Carrasco,Quetzalcoatl and the Irony of Empire.
Doesn't seem to matter that Quetzalcoatl and mormon Jesus appearance in america are of differing time frames. ??
kramd1 2 months ago
@kramd1 "Quetzalcoatl .. from Teotihuacan's empire A.D. 250 to Aztec empire AD 1521"
Just because they found evidence of the belief of Quetzalcoatl in 250 A.D, doesn't mean that the belief didn't exist before then.
In fact, the expectation is that beliefs like this begin, then they evolve and morph over time to become myth and legend.
Khhaaan1 1 month ago
"There are a number of references in the primary sources to the expected return of Quetzalcoatl.... These references strongly suggest that the belief in Quetzalcoatl's return was a pre-Columbian attitude and not, as some have suggested, invented by the Spaniards."
-David Carrasco, Quetzalcoatl and the Irony of Empire: Myths and Prophecies in the Aztec Tradition (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1982), 192. See page 192 and the following pages for Carrasco's argument and sources
LDS4Life71 2 months ago
Viracocha and Ce Atl Quetzalcoatl have huge similariities, and remember there are several figures who are just mortals that were not divine but named after the original one. Such as the one in the 10th century.
LDS4Life71 2 months ago
The book of mormon........ Where Nephites dressed in Roman metal breastplate armour rode Tapirs dragging Chariots without wheels while fighting cursed dark skinned Lamanites. No wonder they lost.
kramd1 2 months ago
Jesus in Quetzalcoatl ?
Quetzalcóatl dates to near a century after Christ birth. ???
"Some post-conquest ( Spanish ) stories clearly rest on Christian embellishment. For example, an account of a language that was no longer understood, akin to the episode of the Tower of Babel, appears in the Popol Vuh of the Quiché Maya, who live in the Guatemalan highlands." Neil A Maxwell Institute.
it's a twistie.
kramd1 2 months ago
@kramd1 They speak the truth despite all your crap.
LDS4Life71 2 months ago
FARMS bull crap.
Primeda 2 months ago