@MegaPaul71 i know all about waiting in A&E with broken arms and fingers but lets face it (and i know this from went both bones in my arm snapped completely) if u were in complete agony and screaming (or bleeding in pretty much any way) thn u wud b seen to straight away. where as in america thy will LITERALLY make u wait and fill out forms if u have a bullet hole in your chest before thy do ANYTHING.
Yes, well wake up people because right now Cameron is trying like hell to push through a bill to privatise the NHS service and its virtually hitting media blackout. The American system is coming here whether we like it or not. check out ukuncut on facebook. protest are going on under a media blackout!
All of my experiences with the NHS have been fantastic - never, not even once, was the cost of any of my treatment called into question. Healthcare is a RIGHT and I seriously cannot understand why people call it evil.
Americans hide behind the propoganda of "socialism" and capitalism free market bullshit to disguise the fact that they are just selfish apathetic neanderthals. the number one priority of being a human being should be to love and care for all other human beings.
@BeingNobody1956 Do you even know why we argue? Do you even know THAT we argue about it at all? Look, I'm not going to defend our health care system here, but you seem more interested in generalizing and throwing insults at all of us than in making a rational point.
@IsisStarlights well, considering the fact that I am an American, a US Army veteran, I can say that I do know why we argue. As a veteran I alrady have socialized health care and it is good. I wish every human being on earth had the health care that I have
@BeingNobody1956 If you are an American, then you know for a fact that we're not all like that, so stop generalizing. Sheesh. Why did you even bother to serve in the army if you hate Americans so much? (And yes, I know how good the VA is.)
@BeingNobody1956 I agree that health care should be available to rich and poor alike.the nhs is the best thing about the uk its free to all.Ok it does have waiting lists for non emergencies but anything life threatening is dealt with fast.I was fixed up wjthin 1 hr of admission after a heart attack,no private healthcare could do better.It could work in the states,you pay health insurance just switch it to tax and it will fund it in the same way.
@BadAssMcMOTHERFUCKER If we assume that each UK citizen pays £4500 for the NHS and multiply that by say 45million the number of UK adults that would mean the NHS costs ??? Well you work it out. If you prefer too base your comments on facts then I recommend “the U.S. Healthcare system in international Context” one of the few video's that give genuine facts about US health care.
@BadAssMcMOTHERFUCKER So "USA" Today where lying about average family policy costs in the US. Do you deny that US heath care costs around twice that of UHC systems around the World or that by your own figures 35million US citizens are with any medical insurance or 45000 US citizens die every year because they lack the proper insurance or that 60% of all bankruptcies in the US have a medical cost.
2009 - Average family health policy nears $11000 - USA Today
2005 - Average family health insurance policy: $13375, up 5% - USATODAY.com
The United States spends an estimated $2 trillion annually on healthcare expenses, more than any other industrialized country. According to data from the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), the United States spends two-and-a-half times more than the OECD average,
@BadAssMcMOTHERFUCKER So you are saying that if you are rich in the US you will get good care? No argument, I'm sure if you were rich in Indonesia or rich in Somalia you would be able to access good health care. Now what about those 45000 US citizens who die every year because they lack proper medical insurance or the 45million who have no insurance or that 60% of all US bankruptcies have medical cost involment.
The US spends an estimated $2 trillion annually on healthcare, more than any other industrialized country. According to data from the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), the United States spends two-and-a-half times more than the OECD average, and yet ranks with Turkey and Mexico as the only OECD countries without universal health coverage. Some analysts say an increasing number of U.S. businesses are less competitive globally because of ballooning healthcare costs.
I have only lived in the UK for a year, having emigrated from NZ. I recently had oral surgery at Kings College Hospital, covered by the NHS. Everything about the process was extremely professional. Staff were caring, facilities were top notch, and I felt very comfortable despite a difficult operation. Australia and NZ have good health care systems but not as good as the NHS - I'm very impressed.
Imagine that, a Doctor paid by the NHS letting everyone know how good it is.
He stated that 40 million people don't have access to health care - NOT TRUE -The laws of the USA require that every American have access to health care regardless of the ability to pay
@electrifrying "The term uninsured in the United States is used to refer residents of the United States who do not have health insurance coverage. According to the United States Census Bureau, in 2008 there were 46.3 million people in the US (15.4% of the population) who were without health insurance.[1] The percentage of the non-elderly population who are uninsured has been generally increasing since the year 2000" Quoted from Wikipedia.
@davijeph Dave is talking crap again - He knows that the laws in the USA provide free health care to those people who have no insurance or regardless of ability to pay.
He does not indicate that UK people also die due to lack of seeking health care. That happens too. Those people in the USA who died - Did not seek care.
i have experienced the US healthcare system and its very poor. The insurance companies run the show and bascially can decide if people live or die. ITs really bad and whats worst is that the Americans think its great.
To get some insight into US medical care please see---. “the U.S. Healthcare system in international Context:” --"NATIONAL DISGRACE: US Health Care System Kills and Bankrupts" and “Tom Daschle: US Healthcare Best In World a 'Myth"'
The NHS is rubbish. You fill the hospitals with third world people and you get a third world medical care. I'm not a racist, just a person who as been a victim of the NHS.
@kim8040 ha ha ha ha ha ha moron, the only reason you don't hear much about the American healthcare systems failures is because its not accountable to anyone!!! only to their shareholders who couldn't give a flying monkeys if you died tomorrow,how special are you?!, the media stories been reported are having their issues dealt with! because when it come to the NHS you don't screw with the British public unless you want to be hung drawn and quartered!
@kim8040 Hi shitforbrains The truth is you can't handle the truth 40000000 Americans without insurance and thats not counting the unknown millions that are under insured.
Focus on the failures in your own HC - namely the fact that not all have access to primary care, the extortionate cost of prescription drugs and the fact that the single biggest cause of bankruptcy is due to HC costs.
Will Steve Field use the 'superb' NHS if he becomes seriously ill and needs treatment urgently? As a senior academic, he must be paying a large sum of national insurance every year and, therefore, qualifies for treatment from the NHS.
No, he'll pay for treatment from medics practising privately in Harley Street.
@kratzenburg Only NHS hospitals can provide emergency care in this country. So if he falls ill and needs treatment urgently, he'll be treated by the NHS just like everyone else.
@kratzenburg - unlikely he'll go to Harley Street. Private hospitals are known discharging patients too early so that they can get another paying customer in the bed and make more profits. Emergencies take priority over non emergencies. An NHS hospital provides first class emergency care and will continue to do so until you're better.
WE ARE SO LUCKY HERE with ibuprofen health care. If you have a flu, let's take ibuprofen, than you'll get genyantritis, let's take ibuprofen again, from genyantritis come metopantritis, and you can guess what next.
@BSFBOPE when you think how it was a few hundred years ago - it really is amazing that we have come together to look after each other in times on ill health
from the second i was put into the helicopter to the moment i left the hospital weeks later i must have consumed millions of pounds if you think about all the little costs all lumped into one
drugs, care, food ect
you know what it cost me?
nothing at all...
if you guys are worried about how much its gunna cost i recommend you stop spending so much on new ways to nuke shit and start spending it on the people in your country who really need it
You know all that money we spend on the military ever year -- trillions of dollars? Instead, if we use this money to feed and clothe the poor of this world, which it would do many times over, then we can explore space, inner and outer, together.
@captaincrassh Fuck, most Americans here are stupid! No thanks to fox news.... You say socialized health care and the Americans think "OH NO, COMMUNISM, SOCIALISM, HITLER, HOLOCAUST!!"
@smoochym Well it's not meant to make you feel good being a Libertarian wack-job you could never understand that helping other people makes the helper feel good. He does not say but I hope "captaincrassh" made a full recovery and unlike you is no doubt a fully paid up member of the Human race.
@smoochym Ever heard that 45000 people a year die in the US because they lack insurance,60% of all (mainly middle-class) US bankruptcies are connected to health cost. If you must make a fool of you self (being a Libertarian you can do no other) please don't broadcast it around the World keep it at home in Pyongyang, Alabama it must be eating all those squirrel brains that makes you so stupid.
@davijeph except im not an ideologue, I believe in universal health insurance but not nationalised hospitals/GP's/clinics.
No other developed country has such a centralised health model, but if you want to just bury your head in the sand and pontificate about how the NHS is so fantastic by all means knock yourself out...
@smoochym Who cares what you are? I am perfectly aware there may well be better ways of suppling UHC than by the British model. Which does have its problems, frankly I doubt any health care system could be developed no matter how much money you throw at it that can ever be prefect. The point of my criticism of you is simply that living in "Pyongyang, Alabama" your in no position to criticise anybody.
@TheRetirednavy92 In the US how do you think your unnecessary insurance companies make a profit? Not to mention your medicaid and medicare programs you pay for in taxes on top of your rip off limited and limiting insurance how many charity hospitals do you maintain? I suggest you spend an hour looking at “the U.S. Healthcare system in international Context” and try and understand a little of your own health care system before making stupid comments about those you do not understand. Regards.
@captaincrassh Actually, it cost you your payments every time you got a paycheck from work. You will also continue to pay that NHS payment until you die.
@captaincrassh Actually, the NHS system would have been better off if you had died. They would have had more money for everyone else.
Whereas - In the USA, they want you to live because they can make money. Deep thought is required on that statement don't you think?
Even very old people get treated because money can be made - NHS has restrictions on age - Try getting a hip replacement in the UK at 80 years old - Ain't going to happen. You are not worth it.
Slam me for saying this, but current democracy is becoming out of date. Democracy was the most fair way things could work in harder times. The country ran by the will of the people - people naturally look after themselves - it was effective. But were better than that now.
What we want is a system that does whats best for the people, and if you wait around for 300 million people, full of bias and misinformation, to reach their own conclusion on complex matters, you cant do what you should do.
If you take the top 10 EU countries they have a lower total population than USA but higher GDP and better average standard of life (education, healthcare, low crime rate, etc).
Ok, I accept what you're saying, but you need to follow through. You can't just criticise something and leave it at that, you need to come up with your own proposal. As the old saying goes, Democracy is awful until you look at the next idea.
Churchill said "Democracy is a terrible system, but the best we've had so far". He also said The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.
I don't have any better system, but reducing all the lies and slander that are produced, mainly by the rich to suit their own ends, would be a good start.
Its remarkable that in a 'democratic' debate that any form of lying or misinformation is tolerated, it's not just tolerated, its all the system is anymore
"The Preamble to the United States Constitution is a brief introductory statement of the fundamental purposes and guiding principles which the Constitution is meant to serve."--Wiki
The commonly heard excuse given by congressmen when asked under what Constitutional authority they think they have to promote this health care takeover is; "general welfare." The Father of our Constitution, who was most responsible for the words within it said otherwise.
He also said: "[The Convention] thought it wrong to admit in the Constitution the idea that there could be property in men."
And yet article 4 included: "No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, But shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due."
I wouldn't argue that the constitution *forces* congress to provide health care, but I don't think you can argue it is entirely unconstitutional either.
The constitution must be interpreted (and occasionally amended) according to the times. Congress must enact the will of the people...as long as they do so within the constitution.
Oh, and Thomas Jefferson, not James Madison is generally regarded as the principal author of the constitution. The document is of course the result of many discussions prior to and during the continental congress of 1776, but Jefferson is the guy who for the most part actually wrote it out.
A man named Gouverneur Morris of Pennsylvania was in charge of the committee to draft the final copy of the Constitution. Other men who had much to do with writing the Constitution included John Dickinson, Gouverneur Morris, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Thomas Paine, Edmund Randolph, James Madison, Roger Sherman, James Wilson, and George Wythe. Morris was given the task of putting all the convention's resolutions and decisions into polished form. Morris actually "wrote" the Constitution.
Well, right now health insurance is not portable--that's federal law. The government prohibits you from buying health insurance out-of-state. That is where the 10th ammendment comes into play. Since that commerce between the states is prohibited, it's unlikely that the federal gov can regulate it.
87% of Amercans are satisfied with their health insurance. How is this plan the will of the people?
Where did I say "this plan" was the will of the people. I said that health-care provision is (arguably) within the constitution - it's certainly not prohibited, and that within the constitution, congress should do the will of the people.
If the people want a universal healthcare safety-net, and congress enacts it, that's fine.
If the people don't and congress does nothing that's fine too - legally speaking anyway, it's not fine for people with no coverage, but that is a separate issue.
Actually, the very fact that people have been polarized by this whole debate and are actually getting involved is one great result of this whole issue. The fact that people are waking up and demanding results is a very positive thing. I really hope that "we the people" keep this attitude going. Our government has been on "auto pilot" for far to long and we are reaping the benefits of it. I honestly would like to see what happens if Nazi Pelosi tried to push it through at this point.
However, there are academics, lawyers and judges who spend their whole working loves arguing about what the constitution does and does not mean. I'd be surprised if two jerks on the internet could sort it out in 500 character bursts!
In terms of who "wrote" the constitution, looks like I was wrong. I think I was thinking of the Declaration of Independence which for the most part Jefferson's work.
You asked me how this plan was the will of the people. I inferred you thought I thought it was. So I was just correcting that. If you never thought that, fair enough, I apologise.
My point is, such a plan is constitutional (subject to something in the 1000+ pages I haven't even read proving me wrong).
If the people do want it, congress should do it.
If the people don't want it, congress shouldn't do it. And they should be voted out of office if they do.
Who interprets the Constitution then? Amended yes but Constitution was and still is sound as is. Our founding fathers were brilliant men and there is no reason to put words into or take words from their mouths. Clear and understandable written language as was the language of the Constitution needs no interpretation. If the issue is that the Constitution is no longer relevant than the Constitution should be made null & void. It is as sound now as it was in 1788 and it should be kept+enforced.
Apbrit: I find it quite ammusing how you continually refer to "conservatives like you" when refering to me. Yet you know nothing of me. Just because I am conservative does not make me a member of the G.W. Bush fan club. To the contrary Bush was elected as a conservative while governing as a liberal/socialist. Do your home work on what the term CONSERVATIVE truely means and you will see Bush was anything but. Obama & Bush would both hang for treason if I had it my way. Patriot Act + Bush= treason
Graff: And your point is? Would you kindly explain to me where the subject of religion has even been brought up here? How do you seperate church & state?
"With respect to the two words 'general welfare,' I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators." --James Madison
you seem to be under the impression Guncriminal that we have no private insurance or private medical facilities here in the UK. this is not true the private medical system runs alongside the NHS and people in the UK can opt to go private if they wish. of course there was this scam that the private enterprise hospitals were farming out their victims to national health ie the expensive operations were sent to NHS hospitals and i am not sure they have cleaned that problem up
I think it's this aspect of the apparently 'less deserving' getting equal treatment that some Americans can't stomach. Because they've worked hard etc etc etc they're unwilling to share the benefits of health care with those who can't afford to pay. They label it 'socialism'.
There is something very twisted, intensely selfish and very sad about the way some Americans interpret what they call democracy.
Absolutely Shades. Very well said. The "Christian" right wing just love their concept of democracy but when it comes to the Good Samaritan then he can just get stuffed. "Christian" right wing Americans will love their neighbour just so long as it doesn't cost them a buck.
denying someone the health care they need is how they die because they cannot afford to pay for the life-saving operations. you only need to look up the facts about this. but of course you wont bother because you dont want to see anything even if it is right in front of your eyes
"I am a firm believer that capitalism is superior to socialism." as i pointed out in an earlier post Many Americans do not know or dont want to think that capitalism is not a political ideology yet they always associate it with one. you are in this no different than most americans
if "Your system sucks. period." is all you can come up with in this debate then thank you for showing us how well you can debate your corner. we appreciate you spending the time to show us your closed minded factless bias and for reaffirming to us all that indeed stupidity and ignorance still abounds. dont bother to post anything else unless you have some facts because it makes you look foolish.
I say your system sucks, because you don't like when people say it. And it does suck. And it ain't free. And my charity runs deep. Just because I'd rather give my money to charity instead of the government, doesn't make me a selfish conservative.
I've already watched my taxes go to a corrupt government that can't solve a thing, wasted. You want to give it to the government, be my guest. Confiscating my wealth is not your freedom.
A big mistake that many Americans make is to think that Capitalism is part of Democracy But Capitalism isn't a political ideology and should have no place in politics. Capitalism is about gaining a secure income and the way to do that is to gain a monopoly a monopoly could in a broad sense be likened to a dictatorship where those in control allow no other form of competition whilst at the same time fooling its customers that there is nothing else on the market.
First of all, this isn't a democracy, and I am a firm believer that capitalism is superior to socialism. As a matter of fact, history will show that socialism fails. And America's been proving this for 250 years now.
"Capitalism is about gaining a secure income and the way to do that is to gain a monopoly a monopoly could in a broad sense be likened to a dictatorship where those in control allow no other form of competition whilst at the same time fooling its customers that there is nothing else on the market."
Free market Health is about the people who can afford to pay it [and if they are not denied] those who get it. in a system where money is the be all and end all of everything this makes perfect sense however a pure capitalist system is based upon the fact that 2% of the population have everything while the other 98% remain below struggling to make ends meet with an unattainable dream of getting into the 2%. The United States of Avarice has the right idea. the Land of the Fee
I've never owned health insurance. I don't need it. Luckily I'm young and healthy. I can afford all but catastrophic care. If I choose to insure myself for catastrophic care, it's worth it. But, I've NEVER NEVER been denied treatment. No hospital in this country denies treatment.
if "exercising your will" causes the needless deaths of 18,000 of your fellow countrymen every year then that really goes to show what a conceited arrogant greedy nation you are as a whole. To think you can sit back smugly with an i'm alright jack attitude while these people die needlessly is disgusting and those who promote free market forces[which clearly dont work] should be ashamed of themselves. the facts speak for themselves free market alone doesn't work where health is concerned.
Its a failure in Canada and like some things, NHS doesn't carry itself on it's own. It really depends on who is running the entire thing. You think about it, medicare and mediCal in the US were basically mirror trial runs of NHS but they went bankrupt. Cash for clunkers is like that. Both are government run and are at points of bankruptsy. Whether you think NHS in itself is a good thing, the current government is incompetent to run such a thing; and it's unamerican to take choice away.
you still havn't answered the question xXLoBaLLXx How much of your wages in percentage is paid to insurance companies for a good health plan and how many people, even though they have paid for a health plan, are denied access to health care? if you cant be bothered to look the facts up you really shouldn't bother posting anything at all. it makes you look rather foolish. i cannot see anything you have posted which could be classed as fact.
I never denied these things happen. I said the NHS type of solution IS NOT happenning in the US. You can hate us for that all you want, but we'll be quite content exercising our free will about it.
Taken from official Data records "Patients who did not need to be admitted waited an average of 4.6 weeks as of January 2009" so waiting for your "chiropractor" one year is a load of mis-informed crap too. you sure are ignorant ain't you boy, Its been said that Sarah Palin uses her mouth better than a $20 whore i am beginning to think whoever said that was right.
78 per cent tax? *shakes head*. Who have you been istening to? If that was the case do you really think we'd still be in bloody country? Hang on, who's that knocking at the door? Noooo! It's the Death Panel! Keep it away! Hide granny!
Some americans, and please note that I said some, are woefully misinformed. THINK before you believe anything your politicians or media tells you. Hey, even better, why don't you get on a plane and find out for yourself. I'll even buy you a pint.
if you didn't know the tax rate then why did you quote a figure in the first place xXLoBaLLXx ? all it does show is that you couldn't be bothered to check out facts before opening your mouth. i repeat once again the Tax rate for low earners is 10% the NHS contributions are 11% i ask again how much of a percentage of wages is paid to the insurance companies in America for a good health plan?
I didn't quote a figure. I asked a question. Can you comprehend that?
Thanks for the info, but I'm not going to do much "research" to make a reply of 500 characters or less on a YouTube video.
The problem need not a government cure, save tort reform, first. Then other things can be done. The free market is quite capable of solving this problem, but not without tort reform first.
Funny you should mention Ben Franklin because in 1751 Ben obtained a charter to form the Pennsylvania Hospital which was 1st hospital in what was to become the USA The seal of the hospital incorporates the story of the Good Samaritan; the phrase "Take Care of Him and I will repay Thee" is used on it. btw that land for the hospital was donated by Mathias Koplin
Well, well, well, looks like I struck a "tax" nerve.
When the citizenry gives its wealth to the government, they also surrender thier liberty, and power. The government makes your life and death decisions for you.
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."-Ben Franklin
Have you refused to pay taxes for your armed forces then? After all we can't have your wealth going towards those ghastly soldiers who go around surrendering American liberty and power like they do.
Not at all. Our constitution clearly states the federal governments responsibility to protect the country. Nowhere in that document does it mention health-care.
So your country's health is not part of your country?
Make it simple. Health care is the health of your people. People are country.
Don't make country sound like houses. Country is the people. It wouldn't make you lose you hair if you pay a little more to make sure you and people inside your country are healthy.
The child of someone who your tax insured could save your life or your country.
Uh, so, since the government doesn't run health care, my country doesn't have it?
I have access to the finest health care in the world. The insurance may be a problem, but I've watched the life expectancy soar in the US during the 20th Century, and the government health care had nothing to do with it.
Not to mention the idea of keeping such obese people alive so long is in and of itself an amazing feat.
That's right, we're very prosperous in the US. We can AFFORD it, because we EARNED it. It wasn't mandated by government.
And we WILL solve our own problems. We've solved many larger ones, including INDEPENDENCE from the crown, slavery, Nazism, Fascism, Totallitarianism, to name a few...
You're confusing how much you spend with affordability. 47 million Americans would take issue about whether they can afford it.
Congratulations, though, on solving the problems of "independence from the crown, slavery, Nazism, Fascism, Totallitarianism, to name a few..." We're all frightfully proud of you.
I never said it was affordable, and I never said it wasn't a problem. I simply said that "government", which has never solved a thing, including war, poverty, hunger, etc., can't solve this one either. They gave us many programs that are turning out to be FAR LESS affordable, like the post office.
And we're all saddened that the citizenry of Great Britain has given up it's right to arm itself.
Oh, and btw, I believe the population size differences between the two nations only serves to strengthen my argument--especially when you state the actual SIZE of the GDP.
So, no more ad hoc, out of context "facts", please. ROFLMAO
Can you explain, please, how the size of GDP makes a difference? And how population size matters? What exactly are you arguing here? Seriously, friend, you are beginning to make yourself look ridiculous now.
I merely wanted your out of context "facts" to be put in context. The comparison of these two completely different systems is a joke. Whether you agree with how we do it, or not, it's going to be solved. But the people have been clear that the NHS method WILL NOT BE THE ANSWER. We would rather keep our own system, warts and all, if that's the alternative.
Replying to YouTube vids is not always a sensible thing. There's really no room for a clear debate. But, when you remove the patina of propaganda, you find common ground.
The mistake of the system proposed is that is winds up becoming another system of government control. That's because of how our constitution works. The states have sovereignity above the bill of rights. The federal government only has the power to regulate commerce between the states. That's where this comes into play.
We are not telling you people to copy our system. We British are just telling you Americans to shut da hck up about NHS and stop saying it's been rubbish.
Over 90% of people here in UK are very very satisfied with it, although it's not perfect.
Just go and find a way to save the lives of 45million when a minor pandemic occurs OR if you want keep what you have and no one here gives a damn about what you Americans want.
Am glad anyone who dares touches the NHS never wins the election here.
I guess you're one of those selfish Conservatives who wouldn't want to help others who cannot afford something. You say NHS suck but you've never seen or been here to prove it. You only here it from your rotten selfish media who thinks everything in America is great, whereas it's all useless and you all know it.
If NHS suck I wonder what American system is like. Anyway I don't really care as me and every other Briton are satisfied with NHS unlike the American healthcare.
So it's okay by your constitution for your government to collect tax dollars to be spent on weapons of mass destucution (currently 2,700 nuclear warheads according to the Federation of American Scientists). But raising tax dollars to set up a decent health care system is a no-no. Fascinating.
Nice try at moral equivalency. But, that's a poor analogy. Our constitution clearly states the primary objective of the federal government is to protect it's citizenry. It says nothing about the health of the citizenry.
But, that's also what makes it great. If there's a deep seated resistance to government control embodied in that document, it's because history is littered with the remains of those downtrodden by their so-called benevolent dictators...
How do you protect your citizens when there is a risk of them dying if the catch an illness?
Imagine a pandemic occur and require a minor treatment in a hospital. In the UK, 99.9% would get the treatment and probably survive and at least 45million Americans would die due to no health care.
A manufacturer doesn't need to tell you to put paper in printer when you buy.
What's the point of going to war when if a little illness comes, it will wipe out 45m citizens?
This has been flagged as spam show
When do the BMA get representation?
When do the Royal College of GPs/Nurses/Midwives get representation?
When do the Chartered Society of Physio get representation?
When do the College of Occupational Therapists get representation?
When do the Faculty of Public Health get representation?
When do the Royal College of Ophthalmologists/Pathologists/Psychiatrists get representation?
When do 155,000+ signatures get representation?
All ignored for CARE UK PLC?
Sign the DROP THE HEALTH BILL Epetition
janebusby 4 weeks ago
The NHS is Superb?
Try waiting in an A&E department for 6 hours..with a broken wrist...Try to find and NHS dentist...i've had more luck finding rocking horse shit...
if you a child/unemployed/immigrant it's great..if you earn a wage...fucking good luck to you...you'll need it!!
MegaPaul71 3 months ago
@MegaPaul71 i know all about waiting in A&E with broken arms and fingers but lets face it (and i know this from went both bones in my arm snapped completely) if u were in complete agony and screaming (or bleeding in pretty much any way) thn u wud b seen to straight away. where as in america thy will LITERALLY make u wait and fill out forms if u have a bullet hole in your chest before thy do ANYTHING.
thawasiansensation 2 months ago
@MegaPaul71 Well, I had to wait about a fortnight for a £160,000 operation. I'd call that a brilliant service.
If your wrist was seriously bad, they would have seen you sooner.
TehOrkyMan 2 months ago
@MegaPaul71 I don't understand this? there are private doctors as well, do and see one then?
JagjeetMann 2 months ago
Yes, well wake up people because right now Cameron is trying like hell to push through a bill to privatise the NHS service and its virtually hitting media blackout. The American system is coming here whether we like it or not. check out ukuncut on facebook. protest are going on under a media blackout!
brucemagee1 5 months ago
All of my experiences with the NHS have been fantastic - never, not even once, was the cost of any of my treatment called into question. Healthcare is a RIGHT and I seriously cannot understand why people call it evil.
llTomlll 8 months ago 6
Americans hide behind the propoganda of "socialism" and capitalism free market bullshit to disguise the fact that they are just selfish apathetic neanderthals. the number one priority of being a human being should be to love and care for all other human beings.
BeingNobody1956 8 months ago
@BeingNobody1956 Do you even know why we argue? Do you even know THAT we argue about it at all? Look, I'm not going to defend our health care system here, but you seem more interested in generalizing and throwing insults at all of us than in making a rational point.
IsisStarlights 6 months ago
@IsisStarlights well, considering the fact that I am an American, a US Army veteran, I can say that I do know why we argue. As a veteran I alrady have socialized health care and it is good. I wish every human being on earth had the health care that I have
BeingNobody1956 6 months ago
@BeingNobody1956 If you are an American, then you know for a fact that we're not all like that, so stop generalizing. Sheesh. Why did you even bother to serve in the army if you hate Americans so much? (And yes, I know how good the VA is.)
IsisStarlights 6 months ago
@IsisStarlights Before you say anything, yes, you didn't use the word hate, but you might as well have.
IsisStarlights 6 months ago
@BeingNobody1956 I agree that health care should be available to rich and poor alike.the nhs is the best thing about the uk its free to all.Ok it does have waiting lists for non emergencies but anything life threatening is dealt with fast.I was fixed up wjthin 1 hr of admission after a heart attack,no private healthcare could do better.It could work in the states,you pay health insurance just switch it to tax and it will fund it in the same way.
TheTomtuffy 2 months ago
ANDREW LANSLEYS integrity has been BOUGHT & PAID FOR by CARE UK !
Here's another voter calling for Lansley to be SACKED!
janebusby 9 months ago 6
@BadAssMcMOTHERFUCKER If we assume that each UK citizen pays £4500 for the NHS and multiply that by say 45million the number of UK adults that would mean the NHS costs ??? Well you work it out. If you prefer too base your comments on facts then I recommend “the U.S. Healthcare system in international Context” one of the few video's that give genuine facts about US health care.
davijeph 10 months ago
@BadAssMcMOTHERFUCKER So "USA" Today where lying about average family policy costs in the US. Do you deny that US heath care costs around twice that of UHC systems around the World or that by your own figures 35million US citizens are with any medical insurance or 45000 US citizens die every year because they lack the proper insurance or that 60% of all bankruptcies in the US have a medical cost.
davijeph 10 months ago
2009 - Average family health policy nears $11000 - USA Today
2005 - Average family health insurance policy: $13375, up 5% - USATODAY.com
The United States spends an estimated $2 trillion annually on healthcare expenses, more than any other industrialized country. According to data from the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), the United States spends two-and-a-half times more than the OECD average,
davijeph 10 months ago
@BadAssMcMOTHERFUCKER So you are saying that if you are rich in the US you will get good care? No argument, I'm sure if you were rich in Indonesia or rich in Somalia you would be able to access good health care. Now what about those 45000 US citizens who die every year because they lack proper medical insurance or the 45million who have no insurance or that 60% of all US bankruptcies have medical cost involment.
davijeph 10 months ago
The US spends an estimated $2 trillion annually on healthcare, more than any other industrialized country. According to data from the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), the United States spends two-and-a-half times more than the OECD average, and yet ranks with Turkey and Mexico as the only OECD countries without universal health coverage. Some analysts say an increasing number of U.S. businesses are less competitive globally because of ballooning healthcare costs.
davijeph 10 months ago
I have only lived in the UK for a year, having emigrated from NZ. I recently had oral surgery at Kings College Hospital, covered by the NHS. Everything about the process was extremely professional. Staff were caring, facilities were top notch, and I felt very comfortable despite a difficult operation. Australia and NZ have good health care systems but not as good as the NHS - I'm very impressed.
cam8001 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The NHS is the single most important issue to me.
IF THE TORIES & LIB DEMS PUSH THROUGH THESE PLANS I WILL NEVER EVER VOTE FOR EITHER OF THEM EVER AGAIN.
No f*cking joke.
janebusby 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The NHS is the single most important issue to me.
IF THE TORIES & LIB DEMS PUSH THROUGH THESE PLANS I WILL NEVER EVER VOTE FOR EITHER OF THEM EVER AGAIN.
No f*cking joke.
janebusby 11 months ago
Imagine that, a Doctor paid by the NHS letting everyone know how good it is.
He stated that 40 million people don't have access to health care - NOT TRUE -The laws of the USA require that every American have access to health care regardless of the ability to pay
ytalanwms 1 year ago
@ytalanwms - well we both that the quality of care those 40 million recieve is only slightly better than nothing, so your point is irrelevant.
TomHartill 10 months ago
@TomHartill This just in: The cost of that free health care is getting even more expensive - read on:
dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1382565/10m-patients-ripped-GPs-40p-minute-phone-lines.html
ytalanwms 10 months ago
best thing for the nhs is to get all nurses and doctors in one place then bomb the lot of them lol
cj4680 1 year ago
@cj4680 Idiot.
Dendiol 1 year ago
He said 40 million US Citizens are uninsured. I've also read 50 million. Which is right.
electrifrying 1 year ago
@electrifrying "The term uninsured in the United States is used to refer residents of the United States who do not have health insurance coverage. According to the United States Census Bureau, in 2008 there were 46.3 million people in the US (15.4% of the population) who were without health insurance.[1] The percentage of the non-elderly population who are uninsured has been generally increasing since the year 2000" Quoted from Wikipedia.
davijeph 1 year ago
@davijeph Dave is talking crap again - He knows that the laws in the USA provide free health care to those people who have no insurance or regardless of ability to pay.
He does not indicate that UK people also die due to lack of seeking health care. That happens too. Those people in the USA who died - Did not seek care.
ytalanwms 1 year ago
@electrifrying Doesn't matter - The law requires hospitals to provide free care to those without insurance.
ytalanwms 1 year ago
i have experienced the US healthcare system and its very poor. The insurance companies run the show and bascially can decide if people live or die. ITs really bad and whats worst is that the Americans think its great.
terder123 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@terder123 "and whats worst is that the Americans think its great."
You have to understand that most Americans are brainwashed into thinking that *everything* American is great.
Why else do they have gridiron football and baseball, when the rest of the world has Soccer and Cricket?
mandolinic 1 year ago
To get some insight into US medical care please see---. “the U.S. Healthcare system in international Context:” --"NATIONAL DISGRACE: US Health Care System Kills and Bankrupts" and “Tom Daschle: US Healthcare Best In World a 'Myth"'
davijeph 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@kim8040
"Are you going to repeat the 40 million American lie ? Try 10 million !
BBC NHS budget shortfalls
BBC Rationed cancer care
BBC shortage of dentists !"
On and on ! NHS is a failed system
well said!
Thetruthishere11 1 year ago
eu 1 usa 0
mynoon1000 1 year ago
The NHS is rubbish. You fill the hospitals with third world people and you get a third world medical care. I'm not a racist, just a person who as been a victim of the NHS.
tommeasor 1 year ago
@tommeasor
don't be afraid of being called racist. It's a badge of honor in the USA.
Lib dummies and communists use it as a weapon whenever they lose an argument.
Thetruthishere11 1 year ago
@kim8040 ha ha ha ha ha ha moron, the only reason you don't hear much about the American healthcare systems failures is because its not accountable to anyone!!! only to their shareholders who couldn't give a flying monkeys if you died tomorrow,how special are you?!, the media stories been reported are having their issues dealt with! because when it come to the NHS you don't screw with the British public unless you want to be hung drawn and quartered!
88durham 1 year ago
@kim8040 Hi shitforbrains The truth is you can't handle the truth 40000000 Americans without insurance and thats not counting the unknown millions that are under insured.
davijeph 1 year ago
The NHS has it's problems. I will not deny that. But thank god it's there.
admiralt 1 year ago
@kim8040
No you need a reality check moron!
We have universal care - that means access for everyone. 40m in the US don't have access to HC!
You don't want it?? That's just fine but British people do!!
notocensorship 1 year ago
@kim8040
Focus on the failures in your own HC - namely the fact that not all have access to primary care, the extortionate cost of prescription drugs and the fact that the single biggest cause of bankruptcy is due to HC costs.
notocensorship 1 year ago
he is spot on!
were455 2 years ago
Where does this figure of 40 million Americans having no access to healthcare come from ? is it true ? Can anyone tell me
tincoffin 2 years ago
@tincoffin US census data.
burrcorley 1 year ago
Will Steve Field use the 'superb' NHS if he becomes seriously ill and needs treatment urgently? As a senior academic, he must be paying a large sum of national insurance every year and, therefore, qualifies for treatment from the NHS.
No, he'll pay for treatment from medics practising privately in Harley Street.
kratzenburg 2 years ago
@kratzenburg Only NHS hospitals can provide emergency care in this country. So if he falls ill and needs treatment urgently, he'll be treated by the NHS just like everyone else.
Cupit29 1 year ago
@kratzenburg - unlikely he'll go to Harley Street. Private hospitals are known discharging patients too early so that they can get another paying customer in the bed and make more profits. Emergencies take priority over non emergencies. An NHS hospital provides first class emergency care and will continue to do so until you're better.
Enerjee 1 year ago
WE ARE SO LUCKY HERE with ibuprofen health care. If you have a flu, let's take ibuprofen, than you'll get genyantritis, let's take ibuprofen again, from genyantritis come metopantritis, and you can guess what next.
Islington2000 2 years ago
you dont have to take iboprofen if you have a flu :L
goodarmsvsbadarms 2 years ago
i wouldnt say its superb but it works and it works a lot better than in the states.
BSFBOPE 2 years ago 20
@BSFBOPE Oh no, it is SUPERB compared to the states...
MatchCard 1 year ago
@MatchCard
Rationing is always supberb to the uneducated.
Thetruthishere11 1 year ago
@BSFBOPE when you think how it was a few hundred years ago - it really is amazing that we have come together to look after each other in times on ill health
dan11009 9 months ago
YES, WE ARE SO LUCKY HERE! or is that more wised up!.
wind4watts 2 years ago
I got hit by a car 4 months ago
from the second i was put into the helicopter to the moment i left the hospital weeks later i must have consumed millions of pounds if you think about all the little costs all lumped into one
drugs, care, food ect
you know what it cost me?
nothing at all...
if you guys are worried about how much its gunna cost i recommend you stop spending so much on new ways to nuke shit and start spending it on the people in your country who really need it
captaincrassh 2 years ago 59
awesome comment, this sums all all my arguments to the ANTI-NHS crowd in one hit... can I quote you on my blog?
Muzzerino....dot......com
dauntless111 2 years ago
quote away my friend
Dave Hyams 21 years old.
To quote a fellow believer;
You know all that money we spend on the military ever year -- trillions of dollars? Instead, if we use this money to feed and clothe the poor of this world, which it would do many times over, then we can explore space, inner and outer, together.
RIP Bill Hicks
captaincrassh 2 years ago
legend thanks!
dauntless111 2 years ago
Much love to new zeland
captaincrassh 2 years ago
@captaincrassh . Accident & Emergency are free in US as in UK. to what extent this would have covered you I dont know but I would guess quite a lot.
tincoffin 2 years ago
@captaincrassh Fuck, most Americans here are stupid! No thanks to fox news.... You say socialized health care and the Americans think "OH NO, COMMUNISM, SOCIALISM, HITLER, HOLOCAUST!!"
MatchCard 1 year ago
@MatchCard
LOL. Fox news! haha.
How are those NHS budget cuts? Perfect and cost containment my ass.
Thetruthishere11 1 year ago
@captaincrassh Ironically, the United States government spends almost double the amount of government money as a % of GDP on healthcare.
davidjames789 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@captaincrassh Actually, it not only cost you, but you pre-paid. It's called NHS deduction on the pay slip. So lets not mislead.
I wonder when Cameron will get the NHS waiting list below 1 million? He was promising this in his election speeches.
People in the USA are never denied treatment. The law does not allow denial of treatment in any state regardless of ability to pay. ITS THE LAW
ytalanwms 1 year ago
"you know what it cost me?
nothing at all..."
Ever heard of tax?
smoochym 1 year ago
@captaincrassh " i must have consumed millions of pounds if you think about all the little costs all lumped into one"
Is that supposed to make us feel good?
smoochym 1 year ago
Comment removed
smoochym 1 year ago
Comment removed
davijeph 1 year ago
@smoochym Well it's not meant to make you feel good being a Libertarian wack-job you could never understand that helping other people makes the helper feel good. He does not say but I hope "captaincrassh" made a full recovery and unlike you is no doubt a fully paid up member of the Human race.
davijeph 1 year ago
@smoochym Ever heard that 45000 people a year die in the US because they lack insurance,60% of all (mainly middle-class) US bankruptcies are connected to health cost. If you must make a fool of you self (being a Libertarian you can do no other) please don't broadcast it around the World keep it at home in Pyongyang, Alabama it must be eating all those squirrel brains that makes you so stupid.
davijeph 1 year ago
@davijeph except im not an ideologue, I believe in universal health insurance but not nationalised hospitals/GP's/clinics.
No other developed country has such a centralised health model, but if you want to just bury your head in the sand and pontificate about how the NHS is so fantastic by all means knock yourself out...
smoochym 1 year ago
@smoochym Who cares what you are? I am perfectly aware there may well be better ways of suppling UHC than by the British model. Which does have its problems, frankly I doubt any health care system could be developed no matter how much money you throw at it that can ever be prefect. The point of my criticism of you is simply that living in "Pyongyang, Alabama" your in no position to criticise anybody.
davijeph 1 year ago
@davijeph oh no not a Libertarian!
We can't actually have people thinking for themselves!
How could we possibly cope without our omniscient leaders?
smoochym 1 year ago
@captaincrassh
I see you had a head injury, free to you, taxed out the arse for others.
TheRetirednavy92 1 year ago
@TheRetirednavy92 In the US how do you think your unnecessary insurance companies make a profit? Not to mention your medicaid and medicare programs you pay for in taxes on top of your rip off limited and limiting insurance how many charity hospitals do you maintain? I suggest you spend an hour looking at “the U.S. Healthcare system in international Context” and try and understand a little of your own health care system before making stupid comments about those you do not understand. Regards.
davijeph 1 year ago
@davijeph Paying the insurance company is better than paying the government
ytalanwms 1 year ago
@TheRetirednavy92 No actually, it was not free to him. He will pay for the rest of his life with his NHS deduction and he has paid in the past.
His insurance is the government - Our insurance is private. We have a choice he does not. We have private care - he does not.
ytalanwms 1 year ago
@captaincrassh That was fantastic! I couldn't agree more with this.
Dendiol 1 year ago
@captaincrassh Actually, it cost you your payments every time you got a paycheck from work. You will also continue to pay that NHS payment until you die.
ytalanwms 1 year ago
@captaincrassh Actually, the NHS system would have been better off if you had died. They would have had more money for everyone else.
Whereas - In the USA, they want you to live because they can make money. Deep thought is required on that statement don't you think?
Even very old people get treated because money can be made - NHS has restrictions on age - Try getting a hip replacement in the UK at 80 years old - Ain't going to happen. You are not worth it.
ytalanwms 1 year ago
@captaincrassh Makes your name quite ironic then! hehe!
llTomlll 8 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
this mans a total prick,a fucking low life scum bag
cj4680 2 years ago
why that? you know him personally?
peopleareapes 2 years ago
Slam me for saying this, but current democracy is becoming out of date. Democracy was the most fair way things could work in harder times. The country ran by the will of the people - people naturally look after themselves - it was effective. But were better than that now.
What we want is a system that does whats best for the people, and if you wait around for 300 million people, full of bias and misinformation, to reach their own conclusion on complex matters, you cant do what you should do.
gww1 2 years ago
Its a quite interesting fact that small countries are the most successful (relatively speaking).
Red0100 2 years ago
If you take the top 10 EU countries they have a lower total population than USA but higher GDP and better average standard of life (education, healthcare, low crime rate, etc).
DefaultPosition 2 years ago 3
Ok, I accept what you're saying, but you need to follow through. You can't just criticise something and leave it at that, you need to come up with your own proposal. As the old saying goes, Democracy is awful until you look at the next idea.
mungenator 2 years ago
Churchill said "Democracy is a terrible system, but the best we've had so far". He also said The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.
I don't have any better system, but reducing all the lies and slander that are produced, mainly by the rich to suit their own ends, would be a good start.
Its remarkable that in a 'democratic' debate that any form of lying or misinformation is tolerated, it's not just tolerated, its all the system is anymore
gww1 2 years ago
The preamble is also not an ammendment.
"The Preamble to the United States Constitution is a brief introductory statement of the fundamental purposes and guiding principles which the Constitution is meant to serve."--Wiki
xXLoBaLLXx 2 years ago
The commonly heard excuse given by congressmen when asked under what Constitutional authority they think they have to promote this health care takeover is; "general welfare." The Father of our Constitution, who was most responsible for the words within it said otherwise.
xXLoBaLLXx 2 years ago
He also said: "[The Convention] thought it wrong to admit in the Constitution the idea that there could be property in men."
And yet article 4 included: "No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, But shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due."
Until the 16th amendment repealed slavery.
AsqJimBob 2 years ago
I wouldn't argue that the constitution *forces* congress to provide health care, but I don't think you can argue it is entirely unconstitutional either.
The constitution must be interpreted (and occasionally amended) according to the times. Congress must enact the will of the people...as long as they do so within the constitution.
AsqJimBob 2 years ago
Oh, and Thomas Jefferson, not James Madison is generally regarded as the principal author of the constitution. The document is of course the result of many discussions prior to and during the continental congress of 1776, but Jefferson is the guy who for the most part actually wrote it out.
AsqJimBob 2 years ago
A man named Gouverneur Morris of Pennsylvania was in charge of the committee to draft the final copy of the Constitution. Other men who had much to do with writing the Constitution included John Dickinson, Gouverneur Morris, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Thomas Paine, Edmund Randolph, James Madison, Roger Sherman, James Wilson, and George Wythe. Morris was given the task of putting all the convention's resolutions and decisions into polished form. Morris actually "wrote" the Constitution.
xXLoBaLLXx 2 years ago
Well, right now health insurance is not portable--that's federal law. The government prohibits you from buying health insurance out-of-state. That is where the 10th ammendment comes into play. Since that commerce between the states is prohibited, it's unlikely that the federal gov can regulate it.
87% of Amercans are satisfied with their health insurance. How is this plan the will of the people?
xXLoBaLLXx 2 years ago
Where did I say "this plan" was the will of the people. I said that health-care provision is (arguably) within the constitution - it's certainly not prohibited, and that within the constitution, congress should do the will of the people.
If the people want a universal healthcare safety-net, and congress enacts it, that's fine.
If the people don't and congress does nothing that's fine too - legally speaking anyway, it's not fine for people with no coverage, but that is a separate issue.
AsqJimBob 2 years ago
Where did I say you said it?? I simply addressed the content of your message.
Right now, the speaker of the house intends to run this plan through congress without the support of the people. No good can come of this action.
xXLoBaLLXx 2 years ago
Actually, the very fact that people have been polarized by this whole debate and are actually getting involved is one great result of this whole issue. The fact that people are waking up and demanding results is a very positive thing. I really hope that "we the people" keep this attitude going. Our government has been on "auto pilot" for far to long and we are reaping the benefits of it. I honestly would like to see what happens if Nazi Pelosi tried to push it through at this point.
BradNC11175 2 years ago
However, there are academics, lawyers and judges who spend their whole working loves arguing about what the constitution does and does not mean. I'd be surprised if two jerks on the internet could sort it out in 500 character bursts!
In terms of who "wrote" the constitution, looks like I was wrong. I think I was thinking of the Declaration of Independence which for the most part Jefferson's work.
AsqJimBob 2 years ago
You asked me how this plan was the will of the people. I inferred you thought I thought it was. So I was just correcting that. If you never thought that, fair enough, I apologise.
My point is, such a plan is constitutional (subject to something in the 1000+ pages I haven't even read proving me wrong).
If the people do want it, congress should do it.
If the people don't want it, congress shouldn't do it. And they should be voted out of office if they do.
That's democracy! A good action ;)
AsqJimBob 2 years ago
Who interprets the Constitution then? Amended yes but Constitution was and still is sound as is. Our founding fathers were brilliant men and there is no reason to put words into or take words from their mouths. Clear and understandable written language as was the language of the Constitution needs no interpretation. If the issue is that the Constitution is no longer relevant than the Constitution should be made null & void. It is as sound now as it was in 1788 and it should be kept+enforced.
BradNC11175 2 years ago
conservatives like you didn't complain when bush passed the patriot act, which goes against EVERYTHING that this country's founding father stood for
you didn't complain when bush used his power to make his friends' companies rich
yet when obama wants to actually do something USEFUL, you bitch and moan about how the constitution is being violated
stfu, you nazi hypocrite
apbrit2009 2 years ago 4
Apbrit: I find it quite ammusing how you continually refer to "conservatives like you" when refering to me. Yet you know nothing of me. Just because I am conservative does not make me a member of the G.W. Bush fan club. To the contrary Bush was elected as a conservative while governing as a liberal/socialist. Do your home work on what the term CONSERVATIVE truely means and you will see Bush was anything but. Obama & Bush would both hang for treason if I had it my way. Patriot Act + Bush= treason
BradNC11175 2 years ago
it also says the curch and state should be kept seprate....
graffkidRAZ3R 2 years ago
Graff: And your point is? Would you kindly explain to me where the subject of religion has even been brought up here? How do you seperate church & state?
BradNC11175 2 years ago
"With respect to the two words 'general welfare,' I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators." --James Madison
xXLoBaLLXx 2 years ago
the plain truth of the matter is that in the UK most people are satisfied with the NHS and dont go private
10001110101110010111 2 years ago 2
you seem to be under the impression Guncriminal that we have no private insurance or private medical facilities here in the UK. this is not true the private medical system runs alongside the NHS and people in the UK can opt to go private if they wish. of course there was this scam that the private enterprise hospitals were farming out their victims to national health ie the expensive operations were sent to NHS hospitals and i am not sure they have cleaned that problem up
10001110101110010111 2 years ago
I think it's this aspect of the apparently 'less deserving' getting equal treatment that some Americans can't stomach. Because they've worked hard etc etc etc they're unwilling to share the benefits of health care with those who can't afford to pay. They label it 'socialism'.
There is something very twisted, intensely selfish and very sad about the way some Americans interpret what they call democracy.
Shades40 2 years ago 2
Absolutely Shades. Very well said. The "Christian" right wing just love their concept of democracy but when it comes to the Good Samaritan then he can just get stuffed. "Christian" right wing Americans will love their neighbour just so long as it doesn't cost them a buck.
sjcmorton 2 years ago
"I've never owned health insurance. I don't need it." I'm Alright Jack
10001110101110010111 2 years ago
denying someone the health care they need is how they die because they cannot afford to pay for the life-saving operations. you only need to look up the facts about this. but of course you wont bother because you dont want to see anything even if it is right in front of your eyes
10001110101110010111 2 years ago
"I am a firm believer that capitalism is superior to socialism." as i pointed out in an earlier post Many Americans do not know or dont want to think that capitalism is not a political ideology yet they always associate it with one. you are in this no different than most americans
10001110101110010111 2 years ago
if "Your system sucks. period." is all you can come up with in this debate then thank you for showing us how well you can debate your corner. we appreciate you spending the time to show us your closed minded factless bias and for reaffirming to us all that indeed stupidity and ignorance still abounds. dont bother to post anything else unless you have some facts because it makes you look foolish.
10001110101110010111 2 years ago
I say your system sucks, because you don't like when people say it. And it does suck. And it ain't free. And my charity runs deep. Just because I'd rather give my money to charity instead of the government, doesn't make me a selfish conservative.
I've already watched my taxes go to a corrupt government that can't solve a thing, wasted. You want to give it to the government, be my guest. Confiscating my wealth is not your freedom.
xXLoBaLLXx 2 years ago
A big mistake that many Americans make is to think that Capitalism is part of Democracy But Capitalism isn't a political ideology and should have no place in politics. Capitalism is about gaining a secure income and the way to do that is to gain a monopoly a monopoly could in a broad sense be likened to a dictatorship where those in control allow no other form of competition whilst at the same time fooling its customers that there is nothing else on the market.
10001110101110010111 2 years ago
First of all, this isn't a democracy, and I am a firm believer that capitalism is superior to socialism. As a matter of fact, history will show that socialism fails. And America's been proving this for 250 years now.
xXLoBaLLXx 2 years ago
"Capitalism is about gaining a secure income and the way to do that is to gain a monopoly a monopoly could in a broad sense be likened to a dictatorship where those in control allow no other form of competition whilst at the same time fooling its customers that there is nothing else on the market."
A bit like what the NHS does?
Guncriminal 2 years ago
Free market Health is about the people who can afford to pay it [and if they are not denied] those who get it. in a system where money is the be all and end all of everything this makes perfect sense however a pure capitalist system is based upon the fact that 2% of the population have everything while the other 98% remain below struggling to make ends meet with an unattainable dream of getting into the 2%. The United States of Avarice has the right idea. the Land of the Fee
10001110101110010111 2 years ago
I've never owned health insurance. I don't need it. Luckily I'm young and healthy. I can afford all but catastrophic care. If I choose to insure myself for catastrophic care, it's worth it. But, I've NEVER NEVER been denied treatment. No hospital in this country denies treatment.
xXLoBaLLXx 2 years ago
if "exercising your will" causes the needless deaths of 18,000 of your fellow countrymen every year then that really goes to show what a conceited arrogant greedy nation you are as a whole. To think you can sit back smugly with an i'm alright jack attitude while these people die needlessly is disgusting and those who promote free market forces[which clearly dont work] should be ashamed of themselves. the facts speak for themselves free market alone doesn't work where health is concerned.
10001110101110010111 2 years ago
Where do get the 18,000 deaths a year are caused by what?
You're making shit up now.
I guess I can't criticize YOUR system, but you seem to have no problems criticizing mine.
You're just a bitter marxist, aren't ya?
xXLoBaLLXx 2 years ago
Its a failure in Canada and like some things, NHS doesn't carry itself on it's own. It really depends on who is running the entire thing. You think about it, medicare and mediCal in the US were basically mirror trial runs of NHS but they went bankrupt. Cash for clunkers is like that. Both are government run and are at points of bankruptsy. Whether you think NHS in itself is a good thing, the current government is incompetent to run such a thing; and it's unamerican to take choice away.
theaznfishy 2 years ago
you still havn't answered the question xXLoBaLLXx How much of your wages in percentage is paid to insurance companies for a good health plan and how many people, even though they have paid for a health plan, are denied access to health care? if you cant be bothered to look the facts up you really shouldn't bother posting anything at all. it makes you look rather foolish. i cannot see anything you have posted which could be classed as fact.
10001110101110010111 2 years ago
I never denied these things happen. I said the NHS type of solution IS NOT happenning in the US. You can hate us for that all you want, but we'll be quite content exercising our free will about it.
xXLoBaLLXx 2 years ago
Bedtime on this side of the Pond. I hope we can contiune this discussion again soon. I've enjoyed it.
sjcmorton 2 years ago
Cheerio, my friend.
xXLoBaLLXx 2 years ago
Taken from official Data records "Patients who did not need to be admitted waited an average of 4.6 weeks as of January 2009" so waiting for your "chiropractor" one year is a load of mis-informed crap too. you sure are ignorant ain't you boy, Its been said that Sarah Palin uses her mouth better than a $20 whore i am beginning to think whoever said that was right.
10001110101110010111 2 years ago
Nice piece of data,
10001110101110010111. Aren't facts a bitch
xXLoBaLLXx!
sjcmorton 2 years ago
I never stated it as fact. That's why they came up with this: ?
xXLoBaLLXx 2 years ago
I'm really enjoying this. What didn't you state as a fact?
sjcmorton 2 years ago
78 per cent tax? *shakes head*. Who have you been istening to? If that was the case do you really think we'd still be in bloody country? Hang on, who's that knocking at the door? Noooo! It's the Death Panel! Keep it away! Hide granny!
Some americans, and please note that I said some, are woefully misinformed. THINK before you believe anything your politicians or media tells you. Hey, even better, why don't you get on a plane and find out for yourself. I'll even buy you a pint.
dobbo996 2 years ago
if you didn't know the tax rate then why did you quote a figure in the first place xXLoBaLLXx ? all it does show is that you couldn't be bothered to check out facts before opening your mouth. i repeat once again the Tax rate for low earners is 10% the NHS contributions are 11% i ask again how much of a percentage of wages is paid to the insurance companies in America for a good health plan?
10001110101110010111 2 years ago
I didn't quote a figure. I asked a question. Can you comprehend that?
Thanks for the info, but I'm not going to do much "research" to make a reply of 500 characters or less on a YouTube video.
The problem need not a government cure, save tort reform, first. Then other things can be done. The free market is quite capable of solving this problem, but not without tort reform first.
The free market has solved far worse problems.
xXLoBaLLXx 2 years ago
Funny you should mention Ben Franklin because in 1751 Ben obtained a charter to form the Pennsylvania Hospital which was 1st hospital in what was to become the USA The seal of the hospital incorporates the story of the Good Samaritan; the phrase "Take Care of Him and I will repay Thee" is used on it. btw that land for the hospital was donated by Mathias Koplin
10001110101110010111 2 years ago
LOL 78%? You must have gotten that from your rotten media.
It all depends on your income. 10-20% MATE
omfirstutube 2 years ago
I didn't state it as a fact, I posited it interrogatively.
xXLoBaLLXx 2 years ago
No: you pulled a fact out of your arse and got spanked all over YouTube for it.
bimblinghill 2 years ago
Well, well, well, looks like I struck a "tax" nerve.
When the citizenry gives its wealth to the government, they also surrender thier liberty, and power. The government makes your life and death decisions for you.
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."-Ben Franklin
xXLoBaLLXx 2 years ago
Have you refused to pay taxes for your armed forces then? After all we can't have your wealth going towards those ghastly soldiers who go around surrendering American liberty and power like they do.
sjcmorton 2 years ago
Not at all. Our constitution clearly states the federal governments responsibility to protect the country. Nowhere in that document does it mention health-care.
xXLoBaLLXx 2 years ago
So your country's health is not part of your country?
Make it simple. Health care is the health of your people. People are country.
Don't make country sound like houses. Country is the people. It wouldn't make you lose you hair if you pay a little more to make sure you and people inside your country are healthy.
The child of someone who your tax insured could save your life or your country.
omfirstutube 2 years ago
Uh, so, since the government doesn't run health care, my country doesn't have it?
I have access to the finest health care in the world. The insurance may be a problem, but I've watched the life expectancy soar in the US during the 20th Century, and the government health care had nothing to do with it.
Not to mention the idea of keeping such obese people alive so long is in and of itself an amazing feat.
xXLoBaLLXx 2 years ago
Life expectancy in the UK: 80
Life expectancy in the USA: 78
Spending on healthcare in the UK: 8.5% of GDP
Spending on healthcare in the USA: 16.3% of GDP
You carry on misleading yourselves in the USA. In the UK we'll just quietly carry on spending less and living longer.
sjcmorton 2 years ago 3
That's right, we're very prosperous in the US. We can AFFORD it, because we EARNED it. It wasn't mandated by government.
And we WILL solve our own problems. We've solved many larger ones, including INDEPENDENCE from the crown, slavery, Nazism, Fascism, Totallitarianism, to name a few...
;)
xXLoBaLLXx 2 years ago
You're confusing how much you spend with affordability. 47 million Americans would take issue about whether they can afford it.
Congratulations, though, on solving the problems of "independence from the crown, slavery, Nazism, Fascism, Totallitarianism, to name a few..." We're all frightfully proud of you.
sjcmorton 2 years ago
I never said it was affordable, and I never said it wasn't a problem. I simply said that "government", which has never solved a thing, including war, poverty, hunger, etc., can't solve this one either. They gave us many programs that are turning out to be FAR LESS affordable, like the post office.
And we're all saddened that the citizenry of Great Britain has given up it's right to arm itself.
xXLoBaLLXx 2 years ago
Oh, and btw, I believe the population size differences between the two nations only serves to strengthen my argument--especially when you state the actual SIZE of the GDP.
So, no more ad hoc, out of context "facts", please. ROFLMAO
xXLoBaLLXx 2 years ago
Can you explain, please, how the size of GDP makes a difference? And how population size matters? What exactly are you arguing here? Seriously, friend, you are beginning to make yourself look ridiculous now.
sjcmorton 2 years ago
I merely wanted your out of context "facts" to be put in context. The comparison of these two completely different systems is a joke. Whether you agree with how we do it, or not, it's going to be solved. But the people have been clear that the NHS method WILL NOT BE THE ANSWER. We would rather keep our own system, warts and all, if that's the alternative.
xXLoBaLLXx 2 years ago
I think that's the most sensible thing you've said so far. On that I agree with you.
sjcmorton 2 years ago
Replying to YouTube vids is not always a sensible thing. There's really no room for a clear debate. But, when you remove the patina of propaganda, you find common ground.
The mistake of the system proposed is that is winds up becoming another system of government control. That's because of how our constitution works. The states have sovereignity above the bill of rights. The federal government only has the power to regulate commerce between the states. That's where this comes into play.
xXLoBaLLXx 2 years ago
We are not telling you people to copy our system. We British are just telling you Americans to shut da hck up about NHS and stop saying it's been rubbish.
Over 90% of people here in UK are very very satisfied with it, although it's not perfect.
Just go and find a way to save the lives of 45million when a minor pandemic occurs OR if you want keep what you have and no one here gives a damn about what you Americans want.
Am glad anyone who dares touches the NHS never wins the election here.
omfirstutube 2 years ago
Your system sucks. Period. I know you want to shut me up, and not allow an opposing point of view--it's what statists like yourself do.
xXLoBaLLXx 2 years ago
xXL..
I guess you're one of those selfish Conservatives who wouldn't want to help others who cannot afford something. You say NHS suck but you've never seen or been here to prove it. You only here it from your rotten selfish media who thinks everything in America is great, whereas it's all useless and you all know it.
If NHS suck I wonder what American system is like. Anyway I don't really care as me and every other Briton are satisfied with NHS unlike the American healthcare.
45m uninsured!
omfirstutube 2 years ago
So, excuse me while I go to my chiropractor now, and I don't have stand in a government queue for 1 year to do it.
;)
xXLoBaLLXx 2 years ago
So it's okay by your constitution for your government to collect tax dollars to be spent on weapons of mass destucution (currently 2,700 nuclear warheads according to the Federation of American Scientists). But raising tax dollars to set up a decent health care system is a no-no. Fascinating.
sjcmorton 2 years ago
Nice try at moral equivalency. But, that's a poor analogy. Our constitution clearly states the primary objective of the federal government is to protect it's citizenry. It says nothing about the health of the citizenry.
xXLoBaLLXx 2 years ago
Nothing to do with moral equivalence. Just making an observation. It's truly fascinating what's in and not in your constitution.
sjcmorton 2 years ago
But, that's also what makes it great. If there's a deep seated resistance to government control embodied in that document, it's because history is littered with the remains of those downtrodden by their so-called benevolent dictators...
;)
xXLoBaLLXx 2 years ago
Now you're being silly again!
sjcmorton 2 years ago
Do you find me a cheeky fellow??
;)
xXLoBaLLXx 2 years ago
How do you protect your citizens when there is a risk of them dying if the catch an illness?
Imagine a pandemic occur and require a minor treatment in a hospital. In the UK, 99.9% would get the treatment and probably survive and at least 45million Americans would die due to no health care.
A manufacturer doesn't need to tell you to put paper in printer when you buy.
What's the point of going to war when if a little illness comes, it will wipe out 45m citizens?
I'm glad am British, Thankgod
omfirstutube 2 years ago 2